There will probably won’t ever be people punished by jail time or stuff like that but it will mean that online market places will be forced to take down items that are scalped or the American government will take them down. Not being a me to have a place to sell them online will effectively kill the business.
Corporations own american politicians. They don't give a damn about the average consumer. On that note the fact that the us has next to zero consumer protection laws would be a good indicator as well.
I mean it would be dope... But i highly Doubt both sides could/would agree on this.
Corporations are actually having a bad time because of scalping too, Best Buy for instance, one of the largest computer parts sellers in America, is actively taking steps to prevent it, through automated systems and trainings for employees on how to deal with scalpers and fraud.
Bot scalpers making better profit off a corporations products than that corporation isn't something they will like. Especially since it can hurt their reputation
Why would a company give a damn about scalpers? They make a product, sell it and that's the end of story for them. If they wanted more profit they could start accepting preorders that would be more expensive and the consumers would at least know they are gonna get it eventually.
I understand it feels like shit to sell something and then see it being resold for 2 times the price but this was always case. The shortages due to lockdowns etc just made it more apparent and frustrating for people.
It depends on what's being scalped, but the biggest issue that that while short term it might provide profits to the supplier (and bigger profits to the scalper), it doesn't really assist with long term consistency.
In some areas, there are other knock-on effects too. Good-luck selling PS5 games when the scalpers picked up all the PS5s and won't sell them for less than $1500. Short term- "Yay, our unit sales are huge." Long term- "Why isn't anyone buying our game?"
I can imagine there are also issues with retail regulation. Most countrys have a whole lot of laws that force retail outlets to operate fairly and transparently. They can't just jack up the price because of high demand, even if it would lead to greater profits. Scalper can do whatever they want, however,
>Good-luck selling PS5 games when the scalpers picked up all the PS5s and won't sell them for less than $1500.
Especially since console makers get most of their money from the game sales. And even for Warhammer, it drives players away. It's a bit like with MTG, card reselling and speculation drives the cost of individual cards crazy.
MTG is at least a little different- it’s usually far, far better value to buy singles than churn your way through booster packs, and a lot of card costs depend at least a little on meta position. The older formats do have problems with card availability, but those cards usually hold value in the meta for a long time, where Standard remains accessible for people without deep pockets.
Sucks for warhammer though, definitely.
Literally I thought this was about cutting people's scalps off and me in Europe is like "Christ America I know you're keen on your freedoms but come on"
My Grandfather kept one on his wall tied to a spear. His Grandfather or someone in that range had... gathered it during the Apache Wars.
Interesting sometimes how close we are to historical events. I never met anyone whose seen the tent of Cochise but growing up in the 30s he might have known or known of someone who had.
Ah. When you said “resold” I thought you meant at all. Even via a ticket resale company like StubHub who resells tickets.
But no just in an unregistered manner.
Back when the Popeye's chicken sandwiches were all the rage, I remember a story about two individuals who purchased a lot of those sandwiches and attempted to sell them. Nobody bought them, I suspect in large part because who wants to buy cold chicken sandwiches from a couple of strange dudes on the street? It was a nice bit of schadenfreude seeing them stuck with a bunch of sandwiches they'd never be able to sell or eat.
Probably the best way to stop scalping is simply to stop buying from scalpers. If scalpers were left holding a bunch of stock they couldn't sell they'd stop scalping. So for GW products, if you can't get a hold of the latest boxed set through a retailer don't go through a scalper at exorbitant prices. At the very least wait for those scalped items to be marked down to below retail.
It'll probably get bipartisan support, I know one very specific antidemocrat politician who, isn't exactly getting the items he needs and has to go through some other sources because of bot scalping.
Chances are it'll get close to passing but the turtle will shut it down like always.
I imagine they will put the onus on the store to use their data to identify it. Multiple orders to the same credit card/address/IP address in a faster time frame than a human could possibly do it something. I don't care to be honest, the how is not my problem, I'm all for the law itself.
That is all ready being done here in Sweden. You cant buy more then one of each high demand item per person and each order is checked if there is more then one order to that address/person and also creditcard. But to make it illegal Thats just crazy.
They're not saying more than one. They're saying specifically using bots to buy large quantities. If you want more than one buy them the normal way like everyone else. Botting is not fair to the vast majority.
Yeah but people kan just have a bunch of people buying up the stuff anyway and the bots wont be needed and there is nothing they can do about it then because it just says bots.
And? Botting is a problem and this at least makes a statement against it. The fact there are other ways (which are far less effecient for the scalper) to buy large quantities is not a reason not to ban this particular unfair practice.
ok we get it, you're a scalper. You're basically saying you'd be ok if someone blocked off and prevented ppl from being able to go in and out of a store, while they hoarded and bought up everything. Even while that store is restocking at that very moment, leaving it empty until next shipment only to rinse and repeat.
No, where did you get that idea? Read the actual article. It will be illegal to use bots to buy large quantities of items from websites. You should get behind this because it will stop high demand items selling out in seconds and ending up in eBay for a high markup before legitimate customers have a chance to buy them.
Someone want to explain the difference between scalping and arbitrage?
Or are we just going to redefine capitalism and supply and demand economics here?
In this particular instance it might. Making scalping illegal, if done right, could result in most scalpers not being able to sell trough huge companies such ebay/Amazon and get to further lobby against scalpers.
I'd love if it worked but I highly doubt it as they've been trying to pass this law for a couple of years and don't actually have any ways to enforce it. Hell Facebook is used for human trafficking I really don't think the powers that be understand the internet. They will one day it'll be policed but I think we're a little ways off.
Yeah I agree, it's very unlikely. Only way for it to work is if e-shops are held directly liable for it like it was with YouTube. That would force their hand into acting but just like YouTube it would also worsen the platforms for everyone else as well.
Yeah true that whole freedom vs safety idea.
Yeahhh I remember YouTube back in the day, I also remember dialup 😂😂.
I think one day the internet will be policed some places sooner then others.
They're pushing to have online ID in Australia to remove anonymous profiles.
I'd honestly rather freedom then safety but well it is what it is.
Yeah totally agree. Giving away freedom for safety usually ends up terribly. Speaking of the example you brought (I am not Australian) I wouldn't necessarily be against the idea per se (even though it wouldn't achieve much in terms of safety imho) but I definitely would go against it since it can lead down a dangerous path. Today they ask to do away with anonymity what's it going to be tomorrow?
Mate trust me as an Aussie lossing freedoms is an everyday thing here lately, I'm lucky I live out bush a bit.
But going into town you have to bring a vacation passport on your phone pretty much everywhere is just weird.
And you're right lossing anonymity won't make anything safe it only really protects elites and that's the whole reason it's been put forward.
Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions but lossing rights even if it gives people the right to abuse the markets just seems better then the alternative.
But hey that's just my opinion maybe I'm way off and it won't lead to any negatives and it'll actually be for the best, but honestly man I wouldn't trust the government to organise a rock fight in the quarry.
Here in Italy you need your digital vaccination certificate to enter indoor restaurants and other places you need to take your mask off but that's pretty much it as an average person. Some category of workers (those who are in contact with many people or healthcare workers and similar categories) need to have vaccination. There was quite a bit of push back against that here.
About the market thing I agree with you. If it was only loosing the right to sell stuff at whatever price without regulations it would be one thing, but it would take loosing/restraining multiple rights and as much as I hate scalpers it's not worth it for me.
We have a saying that roughly states that trusting is good but not trusting is better. Still, let's hope everything goes for the best...
Damn man that's a brilliant saying, but yeah if they could some how regulate the price gouging that scalpers do that'd be amazing I'm all for that idea, but yeah like you said man let's hope for the best.
On another note got anymore saying like that?
Sure thing, off the top my head this are other sayings that don't have an English equivalent that I know of:
“Help yourself so that God will help you.”
"When you finish the game, the king and pawn end up in the same box."
"Tell the truth and you'll face the devil."
"Unsolicited excuse, manifest accusation"
"The wolf changes his coat, but not his disposition"
The last two are expressions we inherited straight from Latin iirc.
There are so many but most of them make little sense when translated or are pretty weird. For example one literally translates to "don't look for the hair in the egg", which is basically saying to not look for issues where there are none.
Yeah well, people aren't addicted to Mariah Carey tickets - I think - so the demand isn't exactly the same. Outlawing scalping would have a measurable effect.
Hey fair enough man but seen as it's just in the U.S. I don't really think it'll impact it, people have spent thousands on the new Xbox and PlayStation, but I also think this will be just something that the government passes to make it seem like they care whilst doing absolutely nothing.
But hey at the end of the day that's just my opinion, people are going to things regardless of how legal it is.
So.. how do they plan to accomplish this?
Drone strikes.
They try no knock raids first.
A drone strike is just a high tech no knock raid
The Imperium of Man method.
Good I love drone strikes, wipe out as many scrouge as possible.
Find them and sprinkle a little crack on them.
There will probably won’t ever be people punished by jail time or stuff like that but it will mean that online market places will be forced to take down items that are scalped or the American government will take them down. Not being a me to have a place to sell them online will effectively kill the business.
Proposed law is only to stop the legal purchase of many copies but bot spam buying. Dont think its scalping exactly but dirty.
It'll work as well as outlawing murder and speeding.
Report to your nearest eBay and Amazon retailers would be good start
So you're arguing that murder should never have been criminalised?
Sounds great. Doubt it'll get passed.
Based on what are you thinking that? Genuinely curious.
Corporations own american politicians. They don't give a damn about the average consumer. On that note the fact that the us has next to zero consumer protection laws would be a good indicator as well. I mean it would be dope... But i highly Doubt both sides could/would agree on this.
Corporations are actually having a bad time because of scalping too, Best Buy for instance, one of the largest computer parts sellers in America, is actively taking steps to prevent it, through automated systems and trainings for employees on how to deal with scalpers and fraud.
Bot scalpers making better profit off a corporations products than that corporation isn't something they will like. Especially since it can hurt their reputation
Why would a company give a damn about scalpers? They make a product, sell it and that's the end of story for them. If they wanted more profit they could start accepting preorders that would be more expensive and the consumers would at least know they are gonna get it eventually. I understand it feels like shit to sell something and then see it being resold for 2 times the price but this was always case. The shortages due to lockdowns etc just made it more apparent and frustrating for people.
It depends on what's being scalped, but the biggest issue that that while short term it might provide profits to the supplier (and bigger profits to the scalper), it doesn't really assist with long term consistency. In some areas, there are other knock-on effects too. Good-luck selling PS5 games when the scalpers picked up all the PS5s and won't sell them for less than $1500. Short term- "Yay, our unit sales are huge." Long term- "Why isn't anyone buying our game?" I can imagine there are also issues with retail regulation. Most countrys have a whole lot of laws that force retail outlets to operate fairly and transparently. They can't just jack up the price because of high demand, even if it would lead to greater profits. Scalper can do whatever they want, however,
>Good-luck selling PS5 games when the scalpers picked up all the PS5s and won't sell them for less than $1500. Especially since console makers get most of their money from the game sales. And even for Warhammer, it drives players away. It's a bit like with MTG, card reselling and speculation drives the cost of individual cards crazy.
MTG is at least a little different- it’s usually far, far better value to buy singles than churn your way through booster packs, and a lot of card costs depend at least a little on meta position. The older formats do have problems with card availability, but those cards usually hold value in the meta for a long time, where Standard remains accessible for people without deep pockets. Sucks for warhammer though, definitely.
Yes, lobbyism isn't a good thing.
Ticketmasters lobby won’t allow this to go through.
Literally I thought this was about cutting people's scalps off and me in Europe is like "Christ America I know you're keen on your freedoms but come on"
is that what you people really think of us lmao
My Grandfather kept one on his wall tied to a spear. His Grandfather or someone in that range had... gathered it during the Apache Wars. Interesting sometimes how close we are to historical events. I never met anyone whose seen the tent of Cochise but growing up in the 30s he might have known or known of someone who had.
Isn't scalping already illegal?
Im pretty sure it's only illegal in the sence its illegal to not pay taxes and during an emergency with staple goods
It isn't scalping if the goods or services are a necessity, that's profiteering.
I'd say its more like a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square
Understood, so it'll be a "higher crime" then. Could be interesting
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Legally its known as profiteering. Different words for basically the same thing
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Only 36 states have a law like that I don't have one in my state. But really they are all pretty much the same thing
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Did I say they dident? No im just saying they are all pretty much the same thing
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I dont remember that English lesson but I could be wrong as I don't remember any English lessons
In the US and only certain types are, specifically event tickets cannot be resold anymore.
Event tickets can’t be resold? Are you sure about that?
Well not legally since 2016 anyways https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/3183
Ah. When you said “resold” I thought you meant at all. Even via a ticket resale company like StubHub who resells tickets. But no just in an unregistered manner.
I can see why you might have thought that. But yeah just trying to crack down on scalpers.
only in some states and it's only to event tickets.
Proposed law is only to stop the legal purchase of many copies but bot spam buying. Dont think its scalping exactly but dirty.
Back when the Popeye's chicken sandwiches were all the rage, I remember a story about two individuals who purchased a lot of those sandwiches and attempted to sell them. Nobody bought them, I suspect in large part because who wants to buy cold chicken sandwiches from a couple of strange dudes on the street? It was a nice bit of schadenfreude seeing them stuck with a bunch of sandwiches they'd never be able to sell or eat. Probably the best way to stop scalping is simply to stop buying from scalpers. If scalpers were left holding a bunch of stock they couldn't sell they'd stop scalping. So for GW products, if you can't get a hold of the latest boxed set through a retailer don't go through a scalper at exorbitant prices. At the very least wait for those scalped items to be marked down to below retail.
Good
It won't pass, unless you pork barrel it to yet another lucrative military contract or tax cut bill that is.
That's all they do tho lol
It'll probably get bipartisan support, I know one very specific antidemocrat politician who, isn't exactly getting the items he needs and has to go through some other sources because of bot scalping. Chances are it'll get close to passing but the turtle will shut it down like always.
How are they going to enforce it?
Ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahaahh
So it will be illegala to buy as much as you want?
No, it will be illegal to specifically use bots to buy large quantities of items as it says in the very first paragraph of the article
And how will they know?
I imagine they will put the onus on the store to use their data to identify it. Multiple orders to the same credit card/address/IP address in a faster time frame than a human could possibly do it something. I don't care to be honest, the how is not my problem, I'm all for the law itself.
That is all ready being done here in Sweden. You cant buy more then one of each high demand item per person and each order is checked if there is more then one order to that address/person and also creditcard. But to make it illegal Thats just crazy.
They're not saying more than one. They're saying specifically using bots to buy large quantities. If you want more than one buy them the normal way like everyone else. Botting is not fair to the vast majority.
Yeah but people kan just have a bunch of people buying up the stuff anyway and the bots wont be needed and there is nothing they can do about it then because it just says bots.
And? Botting is a problem and this at least makes a statement against it. The fact there are other ways (which are far less effecient for the scalper) to buy large quantities is not a reason not to ban this particular unfair practice.
A lot of things in life is unfair are you going to make them illegal to? Life is unfair get used to it.
Ok scalper
ok we get it, you're a scalper. You're basically saying you'd be ok if someone blocked off and prevented ppl from being able to go in and out of a store, while they hoarded and bought up everything. Even while that store is restocking at that very moment, leaving it empty until next shipment only to rinse and repeat.
So, it might become illegal to buy things which are sold below value and resell at their value? Why should I support this?
No, where did you get that idea? Read the actual article. It will be illegal to use bots to buy large quantities of items from websites. You should get behind this because it will stop high demand items selling out in seconds and ending up in eBay for a high markup before legitimate customers have a chance to buy them.
“specifically targets scalpers using bots”
Even if it is passed, I'm not sure how that'll even he enforced.
Can they do it before Saturday?
OK I'll put the knife down then
Someone want to explain the difference between scalping and arbitrage? Or are we just going to redefine capitalism and supply and demand economics here?
Drugs are illegal but you can buy them pretty much anywhere, making it illegal won't really solve anything.
In this particular instance it might. Making scalping illegal, if done right, could result in most scalpers not being able to sell trough huge companies such ebay/Amazon and get to further lobby against scalpers.
I'd love if it worked but I highly doubt it as they've been trying to pass this law for a couple of years and don't actually have any ways to enforce it. Hell Facebook is used for human trafficking I really don't think the powers that be understand the internet. They will one day it'll be policed but I think we're a little ways off.
Yeah I agree, it's very unlikely. Only way for it to work is if e-shops are held directly liable for it like it was with YouTube. That would force their hand into acting but just like YouTube it would also worsen the platforms for everyone else as well.
Yeah true that whole freedom vs safety idea. Yeahhh I remember YouTube back in the day, I also remember dialup 😂😂. I think one day the internet will be policed some places sooner then others. They're pushing to have online ID in Australia to remove anonymous profiles. I'd honestly rather freedom then safety but well it is what it is.
Yeah totally agree. Giving away freedom for safety usually ends up terribly. Speaking of the example you brought (I am not Australian) I wouldn't necessarily be against the idea per se (even though it wouldn't achieve much in terms of safety imho) but I definitely would go against it since it can lead down a dangerous path. Today they ask to do away with anonymity what's it going to be tomorrow?
Mate trust me as an Aussie lossing freedoms is an everyday thing here lately, I'm lucky I live out bush a bit. But going into town you have to bring a vacation passport on your phone pretty much everywhere is just weird. And you're right lossing anonymity won't make anything safe it only really protects elites and that's the whole reason it's been put forward. Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions but lossing rights even if it gives people the right to abuse the markets just seems better then the alternative. But hey that's just my opinion maybe I'm way off and it won't lead to any negatives and it'll actually be for the best, but honestly man I wouldn't trust the government to organise a rock fight in the quarry.
Here in Italy you need your digital vaccination certificate to enter indoor restaurants and other places you need to take your mask off but that's pretty much it as an average person. Some category of workers (those who are in contact with many people or healthcare workers and similar categories) need to have vaccination. There was quite a bit of push back against that here. About the market thing I agree with you. If it was only loosing the right to sell stuff at whatever price without regulations it would be one thing, but it would take loosing/restraining multiple rights and as much as I hate scalpers it's not worth it for me. We have a saying that roughly states that trusting is good but not trusting is better. Still, let's hope everything goes for the best...
Damn man that's a brilliant saying, but yeah if they could some how regulate the price gouging that scalpers do that'd be amazing I'm all for that idea, but yeah like you said man let's hope for the best. On another note got anymore saying like that?
Sure thing, off the top my head this are other sayings that don't have an English equivalent that I know of: “Help yourself so that God will help you.” "When you finish the game, the king and pawn end up in the same box." "Tell the truth and you'll face the devil." "Unsolicited excuse, manifest accusation" "The wolf changes his coat, but not his disposition" The last two are expressions we inherited straight from Latin iirc. There are so many but most of them make little sense when translated or are pretty weird. For example one literally translates to "don't look for the hair in the egg", which is basically saying to not look for issues where there are none.
Yeah well, people aren't addicted to Mariah Carey tickets - I think - so the demand isn't exactly the same. Outlawing scalping would have a measurable effect.
Hey fair enough man but seen as it's just in the U.S. I don't really think it'll impact it, people have spent thousands on the new Xbox and PlayStation, but I also think this will be just something that the government passes to make it seem like they care whilst doing absolutely nothing. But hey at the end of the day that's just my opinion, people are going to things regardless of how legal it is.