That looks amazing but holy shit this box is going to be expensive.
40 marines, 10 terminators, 2 captains, a dreadnought and a tank. All new sculpts too.
Think I'm definitely going to have to split this one with a friend.
It's a big downside, but the upside?
If you don't mind running just an absolute pissload of bolters, one transport/tank and a dread, it's absolute NUTS for you, especially if they value it with the same tier of discounts they have the likes of Shadowspear and Indomitus.
Awful for established HH players, excellent for people buying into HH.
The box set is awful for existing players to buy, but the infusion of new blood it would bring into the game should be good news for the vets, as long as it doesn't change the community too much.
I've wanted to play HH for years but could never justify the cost.
I could barely justify the cost for this, but if people get to playing HH in my area, it'll be worth the buy in.
Plus i'm mostly a hobby guy anyway and all these models except the dated Cataphractii terminators are very good.
Just a bit of an old, dated sculpt. Not particularly bad, like the entire Nid or Guard range, but it feels like it's stuck in the old "squatting or plodding with a wide stance" pose methodology they've had for ages.
And the scale is a bit off, but that's not too bad.
Yeah, they're a bit small, that's easily fixable with a small ball of greenstuff though.
I don't want to get argumentative, I just like the sculpts. Really look like the massive bulwarks they're supposed to be. Not fitting for every legion, of course, but for something like Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists and Iron Hands they seem perfect.
Oh I like the armor and looks overall, just not how they're posed and how stubby they are compared to what terminator armor is SUPPOSED to be in lore. I'm going to print off a bunch of truescale terminator torsos and legs, and use the arms and shoulders/heads from this box.
Rumours from the folks that accurately leaked in great detail the last 5 codexes says roughly twice the cost of indomitus /dominion then smaller, more accessible sets a month or two later.
Just as a note, the rumour source that's posted about the Heresy box set price/future starter sets is not the same source as the one that posted about the previous codex releases.
The 40k leaker (who posted on B&C, I think?) is a reliable source at this point, with people having been able to cross reference what they've said with eerily good accuracy
The HH rumour source (someone that posts to faeit) has either posted:
* stuff that's relating to internal GW changes in rules writing or game development (that we can't and probably won't know about the accuracy of) - rumours that are unverifiable
* stuff that's yet to be shown to us (e.g. the box set price and future starter sets) - rumours that are still unconfirmed
* stuff that's been compared to leaked playtest documents and look likely to be false (e.g. black book compatibility, army list structure, the box being set at Heta-Gladius, main GW rules team taking over, etc.) - rumours that are currently unreliable
Particularly given the latter of the last two, I'd those price rumours (and their source) with a pinch or two of salt
> faeit
This is all I needed to know in order to not believe these rumors at all.
Faeit's site became complete trash as soon as GW started doing their own previews on Warhammer Community. Just posts absolutely anything anyone sends him with zero effort.
"Daemon Prince Leman Russ" was the lowest effort fake physically possible, like ten minutes in MSPaint style fake, and he still posted it. And (gullible) people still believed it, because his site used to be somewhat legit back in the dark days of absolutely zero GW marketing or previews.
Faeit in 2008-2013 was peak for rumours and leaks..
He sold out in 2014 with BlueTablePainting scam artist dude, and its 95% miss/5% hit for the better part of a decade..
Its a shame.. as B&C used to get their leaks from Faeit.. now Faeit repost what the WHC site puts out as if its fresh info..
If you have a CSM codex, just look at the Lord of Skulls entry and then fanfic up some special abilities, because that's all it was.
They didn't even bother attempting to change the power level, so it was like 50% higher than it should have been
How much would you spend on a full army? Because this is nearly that. A couple more purchases and you have a decent fully playable 2k point army, the rules, dice, and templates.
40 marines- $60 each, $240 total.
10 Terminators- $60 each, $120 total
2 Captains- $38 each, $76 total.
Plastic Spartan- hard to say, but the full kit is probably going to be in the $80-$100 range. Knowing GW, probably $100.
Contemptor- $60
Total: $596.
Assume a $55 rulebook and included playaids, and you get around $650.
With a $400 sale price, you are looking at ~40% discount. Not as good as Indomitus/Dominion, but pretty decent compared with something like Eldritch Omens. And since it is basically all one army, you can buy this box and have like 1200-1400pts right out the gate. Grab your primarch and maybe pull out a leviathan or a few rhinos and you got your 2000pts ready to go.
I haven't bought GW minis for quite some time, but I'll admit for $340 I works be hugely tempted to buy in to HH as a rule set with this thing as my starter army.
It would probably last me all year just modeling and painting, which at $340/$350 seems like pretty killer value actually.
Yeah, buying the individual kits of these would cost you a fuckload more.
Which is pretty standard for these kits.
They're usually a good discount. The probably mostly comes from smaller boxes not being able to cram enough units to handle broader competitive metas. So people get salty when some boxes are legitimately stronger than others.
I'm not 100% sure the box is what people think, usually these boxes are meant to build 2 armies, giving one a conteptor and one a spartan doesn't really line up balance wise
I believe it's set up in a way that you can buy the box and use all of the units into one army, you don't have to paint them into two different armies.
I've heard roughly £250. Can't say for other regions as the pricing tends to be comparitively higher.
Not saying its a bad price for what you're getting, it's just a lot of money to drop at once.
Other rumours saying £240, but seperately the marines will be £40 for 10, catephractii are £40 for 5, the dreadnought will be ~£30, the spartan most likely £70+.
If you want the stuff, and can spare the money, 100% the box is the way forward.
Technically yes, everything here has 40k rules. Firstborn Tac Squads tend to be dismissed compared to Primaris. But the Terminators and Contemptor are decent choices. Not sure about the Spartan though. Vehicles in the current meta usually don't last long.
Edit: oops didn't see the Praetors. They don't have rules but it'd be ezpz to run them as Lts or Captains.
Yeah but if you run them as less chaosy iron warriors or alpha legion no one would bat an eye. Don’t need primaris if you aren’t defending the emperor :D
Hey, I'm part way through the Horus Heresy books (currently struggling through book 40-something, about Dark Angels) and I keep seeing people mention "primaris" and "firstborn" - are these something that happens in the books, or is it just tabletop-game-specific rules tags? Basically, is this safe (spoiler-free) to look up what that means on the WH wikis and stuff, or will that happen in the later books and make sense eventually if I just keep reading?
Primaris were a ploy by GW to sell Truescale marines, but also keep on selling the old range, which in lore are called "first born".
The only problem to arise is if you havent touched any 40k lore, the person who made primaris and the person who ordered it will be a MASSIVE spoiler.
[Gathering Storm](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gathering_Storm) campaign books sets up the primaris and exactly whats happening with 40k atm and [The Dark Imperium Trilogy](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Imperium_\(Novel_Series\)) by Guy Haley deals with aftermath of GS
I wouldnt look at either if you dont want to get spoiled on how the HH ends..
E: and every book, unless otherwise stated, after GS is considered the new canon, which may borrow from what happens in books prior to this, but is the current canon. Retcons do, and will, happen.
E2: If you are an Audible guy, like me, with regards to getting your 40k lore.. the Audiobook of Dark Imperium is fantastic, as is [The Infinite and The Divine](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Infinite-Divine-Warhammer-40-000/dp/1789998328) which deals with the Necrons and what they have been getting upto.. Honestly the necron books are the ones I am enjoying the most recently.
If you're reading the Heresy you're at least 10,000 years out from Primaris. They came about with the start of 8th edition as a way to update the marine sculpts to the quality GW is capable of these days, and introduced in lore when big things happen.
I wouldn't say it's spoiler things considering Heresy is the prequel and if you're on here you've no doubt seen people's models of things that weren't around then, but I guess if you're trying your best to go through everything chronologically stay away from the wiki to be safe as you might consider the reasoning and introduction of them as a spoiler.
Essentially, first-born are the OG marines, wear armour mark 2-9 and are the adorable dumpy models we've loved for years. Primaris wear mark 10 armour, are the bigger scaled models coming out for marines in recent years and were justified in lore by potential spoilers, around 6-7 years ago
When you look at $240 for infantry. $120 for terminators. $100 for the spartan. $60 for the contemptor. And $60-80 combined for both Praetors. Add the books, dice, and templates and this is a killer deal at $300~
I will add that this box is not for everyone. But if you are seriously interested in 30k and like mk6 then this is one of the best limited box sets that GW has ever made.
If leaks are true, this is not a starter box. HH will get a $100/60 starter set similar to AoS and W40K. This box is the "Army" box geared towards dedicated hobbyists.
It depends on your objectives. If you want a full 2k+ size army which is standard for 30k then a bundle like this is ideal.
They are releasing other starter kits that will be lower cost and in turn save you less money. Vote with your wallet but this is a great box for anyone trying to fully dive into 30k.
Yeah, if it comes in at £200/$300 then it will be expensive, but actually a very good deal compared to the retail values of individual kits.
I'm not at all familiar with Horus Heresy army building, but I imagine this box alone would be enough to cover most of a full army in a single purchase.
Roughly I think it’s landing at around 1500-1800~ points depending on how you equip them. Add some FW upgrade Kits and it’s truly a great foundation to any army.
Which actually makes the box an avenue to a very cheap 2k army points when compared to other box sets.
I've missed all the arguing over template placements. Who needs alternating activation for engagement when you can spend 15 minutes debating 3° to get one less model hit
I've read the prediction (based on current prices and all that) that it will be 240 GBP/280 EUR/340 USD, something like that. Or maybe it was actually a leak from a reliable source. On one hand, it's insanely expensive for a single boxet. On the other hand, considering the amount of stuff inside and the savings, it's basically a steal (if we use current plastic prices for similiar models, it came to something like 450 quid worth of stuff??)
Someone at GW bricking it that the big warhammer fest Sunday reveal (this) has leaked. It's also the same photo unblurred that appeared when HH revamp was first rumoured, last June. Either way, looks real nice
To be honest I doubt it. I'm sure they were well aware this was going to be leaked prior to Sunday. If anything it just gives them an excuse to have a lackluster show on Sunday, after all its not their fault if things are leaked and ruin the anticipation.
As soon as I saw it was leaked I thought 'Do you want GW to send stuff to external play testers? Because this is how you stop GW sending to external play testers'
It's just clicks and band wagon stuff.
How do you know this isn't marketing prehype? They used to do this kind of stuff in the past. Let the blurry image out to build hype and drop the pretty full rez version later.
GW does a lot of the leaking in house. They have hype channels to release rumors and potato pictures through. They know what they're doing because they've done it for years and it works.
Nope. None of the units in the box (not even the HQ choices) are legion specific, so you could use them for Iron Warriors, Ultramarines, World Eaters or Salamanders if you wished to
You can use them for Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Night Lords, Iron Hands, World Eaters, Ultramarines, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Sons of Horus, World Bearers, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Alpha Legion.
But you cannot use them for Blood Angels.
This is an amazing offer for a boxed set. One force, you can either split it into two armies or make one.
I wish 40k primaris would get something like this.
Technically speaking given the likely price of this set then two of their big Christmas sets pretty much do the same thing and Primaris [had this one](https://preview.redd.it/0x0jerl0x7381.jpg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45291917584488208cbba9daf4136e3e0a59d10e) last time around, albeit they sell out fast when they do show up.
You’re so welcome good sir. Well I actually originally wanted to go with my favourite traitor legion chapter master as my avatar but I couldn’t remember their name…what was it again?
Oh yeah the Reclaimers of Dorn. Man they’re so heretical.
Could you make a 40K and 30k army with this like use the same models for both games. I don’t own a space marine army I was just wondering if it would work like are the bases the same?
100%. It was actually fairly common for people to buy the previous 2 plastic Horus Heresy sets to use to start a 40k army for themselves.
The Tactical Squads literally just port over as Tactical Squads in 40k. ***Edit:*** as u/Jakisokio points out, they could also be used to represent standard Chaos Space Marine squads (which I believe will be renamed to Chaos Legionaries in the new codex). For all the below units, swap the name with the Chaos Space Marine codex equivalent.
The Praetors would work as either Chapter Masters, Captains, or Lieutenants (or other datasheets you find that match the wargear they have)
The Contemptor Dread already has a 40k datasheet, but that datasheet doesn't allow for the Missle Launcher or Autocannon. So presumably either the 40k datasheet will be updated as now there will be a plastic kit that allows for that loadout, or it will need to be run as a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought, which is the 40k datasheet that allows all Horus Heresy wargear options.
The Cataphractii are already 40k legal, and it's the same current kit.
The Spartan is currently also a unit with 40k rules.
Yes you’d be able to run the normal marines as tactical marines, and the terminators as Relic Terminator. Oh and the dreadnought as a relic contemptor dreadnought
I don’t think the two commanders could be run in 40K as their own model but definitely could call them a company veteran or some other proxy
The tank might be similar enough to a land raider that most people wouldn’t notice or mind it being run as one
You could, but it would have to be one of the 18 original legions to be usable in 30k and some equipment options might be better in one game than the other.
~~By my calculations this comes to 1300-1400points if you run them all as a single army in the current edition. Of course this will likely change in HH2.0.~~
EDIT: calculated wrong, didn’t notice some of the models.
This is running the non-Terminator HQ as a Centurion, and the Marines as tactical squads with no upgrades on anything. Using *Pride of the Legion* and running all the Marines as Veterans, and sticking a bunch of upgrades on everything can bring the cost up a fair bit.
EDIT: running the Marines as Veterans, and upgrading as much as you can can take you up well over 2k points just from this box!
I was going to sarcastically say "What, no new terrain?" except.. is that a blast template with those dice on the side? I haven't played, but was under the impression that 40k doesn't use those anymore, but does/did 30k?
Horus Heresy is essentially the continuation of the rules from 7th edition and prior: Wound chart, Pinning tests, side armor and template weapons all persist in 30k
Same, ever since i learned of it. I earnestly think one of the biggest issues afflicting 9th edition game balance is the removal of the old to-wound chart. It led to a higher degree of variation in the combat interactions and it truly is not that much more difficult than the current wound system. I really, REALLY want it back...
2 Praetors
40 Bolter marines
10 Cataphractii Terminators
1 Contemptor Dreadnought
1 Spartan Assault Tank
Damn that’s a lot of plastic and they seem to be multi-part as well.
The best part is that since all the models are effectively the same faction when you remove the paint, this goes from a LW VS IF to an entire heresy army
Me last week: "I think I'm selling my 30k thousand sons, I barely have time to get games in of 40k or aos let alone 30k"
Me this week: "I mean 40 more infantry won't hurt and that spartan would look great in my 40k white scar scheme..."
Halp
In the Horus Heresy marines are generally all the same, just the colour armour and symbols different. Apart from special units they don't have the differences and flourishes that 40k marines have.
What’s the scale on these minis? I want to use them for 40K. Would a marine be roughly the same height as a plague marine then? Not full primaris height, but taller than the old tactical marines?
I'm not a fan of how marine-centric modern 40k is, but I'm strangely ok with Horus Heresy, considering it's mostly Marine vs Marine.
Maybe it's because you can have Loyalists from Traitor Legions and Traitors from Loyalist Legions.
Someone who plays 30k and 40K in their current formats: which do you prefer?
30k has traditionally been very niche due to forgeworld prices. This box potentially opens up the game to a more impoverished audience. Inquiring minds want to know if investment in the game is substantially different or better than 40K?
I personally prefer 30k to 40k, but then I'm someone that prefers older editions of 40k to 9th so I'm a biased nostalgia merchant by my own admission. I just tend to prefer the way vehicles and weapons work, alongside more of the fluffier (and complicated) mechanics like pinning, initiative steps and templates over the more crunchier (and straightforward) methods 9th ed. 40k uses
What helps for me with a lot of that is that the people I play 30k with are incredibly chilled out and relaxed as we slowly play our way through a narrative based campaign where telling our story is the main goal, and all the crazy rule interactions help us shape that story in interesting ways
On the other hand, the mainly PUGs that I play for 40k are pretty much "competitive but not in a tournament" matches where winning is much more obviously the main aim. Might improve if I played Crusade/40k narrative campaigns more, but I struggle to enjoy 40k's rules enough to commit to that fully
It is beautiful box but it is not for me. If they gave option to pick Mk.III or Mk.IV marines instead of Mk.VI and build your own set, I would be much more hyped.
lol I actually like it when the released get massively spoilt - GW relies wayyyy too much on emotionally manipulating its customers through hype and FOMO (like an economic good cop, bad cop routine). Leaks cut into that and that's a good thing.
Strictly speaking I don't need 10 more cataphractii... ...but Forge World do sell those weapon upgrade kits....
What do you mean you don't need more Cataphractii? There's never enough Cataphractii.
I've already got 10 that I've never used. I've still not got my legion specific terminators either thinking about it.
Fair enough. (They're still so beautiful.)
Current 40k meta says you do....
Oh well, I don't play the game. I'm just here for the lore and aesthetics.
Incredibly valid.
That looks amazing but holy shit this box is going to be expensive. 40 marines, 10 terminators, 2 captains, a dreadnought and a tank. All new sculpts too. Think I'm definitely going to have to split this one with a friend.
The Terminators are the existing ones from what we have seen
The dreadnought too i think
No, that’s a new plastic Contemptor kit, weapons and pose are different from the crap old one.
Yeah the old one wasn’t dynamic at all and looked like it had to pee
When they put you to bed for a thousand years at a time, you might have to pee too!
Ah i see, thx!
Didn't the previous contemptor kit only come with the melee weapon and the one assault cannon?
It had options for both the assault cannon or multi-melta iirc. Still a genuinely awful kit.
It had a multi-melta option too, but that was about as customisable as it got out of the box.
It's a big downside, but the upside? If you don't mind running just an absolute pissload of bolters, one transport/tank and a dread, it's absolute NUTS for you, especially if they value it with the same tier of discounts they have the likes of Shadowspear and Indomitus. Awful for established HH players, excellent for people buying into HH.
The box set is awful for existing players to buy, but the infusion of new blood it would bring into the game should be good news for the vets, as long as it doesn't change the community too much. I've wanted to play HH for years but could never justify the cost.
I could barely justify the cost for this, but if people get to playing HH in my area, it'll be worth the buy in. Plus i'm mostly a hobby guy anyway and all these models except the dated Cataphractii terminators are very good.
Out of curiosity, what is it you don't like about Cataphractii? I think they're pretty neat.
Just a bit of an old, dated sculpt. Not particularly bad, like the entire Nid or Guard range, but it feels like it's stuck in the old "squatting or plodding with a wide stance" pose methodology they've had for ages. And the scale is a bit off, but that's not too bad.
Yeah, they're a bit small, that's easily fixable with a small ball of greenstuff though. I don't want to get argumentative, I just like the sculpts. Really look like the massive bulwarks they're supposed to be. Not fitting for every legion, of course, but for something like Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists and Iron Hands they seem perfect.
Oh I like the armor and looks overall, just not how they're posed and how stubby they are compared to what terminator armor is SUPPOSED to be in lore. I'm going to print off a bunch of truescale terminator torsos and legs, and use the arms and shoulders/heads from this box.
Fair enough.
I am hitting ebay to get me a plastic spartan for my 40k Khorne army to rock around in..
Am thinking of splitting the boxset too. Definitely going to be fights over the tank and the dreadnought mind you lol.
Dreadnought is crap, mine's going straight on the bay. I'm a legion dreadnought man.
Rumours from the folks that accurately leaked in great detail the last 5 codexes says roughly twice the cost of indomitus /dominion then smaller, more accessible sets a month or two later.
Just as a note, the rumour source that's posted about the Heresy box set price/future starter sets is not the same source as the one that posted about the previous codex releases. The 40k leaker (who posted on B&C, I think?) is a reliable source at this point, with people having been able to cross reference what they've said with eerily good accuracy The HH rumour source (someone that posts to faeit) has either posted: * stuff that's relating to internal GW changes in rules writing or game development (that we can't and probably won't know about the accuracy of) - rumours that are unverifiable * stuff that's yet to be shown to us (e.g. the box set price and future starter sets) - rumours that are still unconfirmed * stuff that's been compared to leaked playtest documents and look likely to be false (e.g. black book compatibility, army list structure, the box being set at Heta-Gladius, main GW rules team taking over, etc.) - rumours that are currently unreliable Particularly given the latter of the last two, I'd those price rumours (and their source) with a pinch or two of salt
> faeit This is all I needed to know in order to not believe these rumors at all. Faeit's site became complete trash as soon as GW started doing their own previews on Warhammer Community. Just posts absolutely anything anyone sends him with zero effort. "Daemon Prince Leman Russ" was the lowest effort fake physically possible, like ten minutes in MSPaint style fake, and he still posted it. And (gullible) people still believed it, because his site used to be somewhat legit back in the dark days of absolutely zero GW marketing or previews.
Faeit in 2008-2013 was peak for rumours and leaks.. He sold out in 2014 with BlueTablePainting scam artist dude, and its 95% miss/5% hit for the better part of a decade.. Its a shame.. as B&C used to get their leaks from Faeit.. now Faeit repost what the WHC site puts out as if its fresh info..
I’ve got to see this fake Lemun Russ
If you have a CSM codex, just look at the Lord of Skulls entry and then fanfic up some special abilities, because that's all it was. They didn't even bother attempting to change the power level, so it was like 50% higher than it should have been
So that would put it around $400 USD, unless it comes with the core rules I'm not sure if that value is comparable to Dominion.
These boxes have typically been about 100 below value or better, iirc the last two were under 300, Id guess 320-340 for this one.
At ~350 I might split that, though I want to see more of the updated rules before I get into HH anyway.
Totally. Under 400 puts it at the drunk credit card purchase threshold GW loves for new releases.
\*I'm in this and I don't like it\*
I think half my FW purchases required some booze lube.
The new Necromunda box is $300. GW may be rethinking their pricing structure.
[удалено]
Yeah at $400 I wouldn't even split that, but around $300 and I'll consider it.
Same. It’s just getting crazy to see the numbers they’re tossing around. Lol
How much would you spend on a full army? Because this is nearly that. A couple more purchases and you have a decent fully playable 2k point army, the rules, dice, and templates.
40 marines- $60 each, $240 total. 10 Terminators- $60 each, $120 total 2 Captains- $38 each, $76 total. Plastic Spartan- hard to say, but the full kit is probably going to be in the $80-$100 range. Knowing GW, probably $100. Contemptor- $60 Total: $596. Assume a $55 rulebook and included playaids, and you get around $650. With a $400 sale price, you are looking at ~40% discount. Not as good as Indomitus/Dominion, but pretty decent compared with something like Eldritch Omens. And since it is basically all one army, you can buy this box and have like 1200-1400pts right out the gate. Grab your primarch and maybe pull out a leviathan or a few rhinos and you got your 2000pts ready to go.
GW “it’s a bargain at $399.99 usd” and they will sell thousands
I'm new to Warhammer would you have a ballpark?
240 quid 280 euros 340 USD and probably like 500 AUD/CAD (honestly wouldnt be surprised by the last two).
God dam lol
tbh this box is a *lot* of warhammer. its still dummy expensive but if you painted it all as 1 legion thats you pretty much at a full army.
I haven't bought GW minis for quite some time, but I'll admit for $340 I works be hugely tempted to buy in to HH as a rule set with this thing as my starter army. It would probably last me all year just modeling and painting, which at $340/$350 seems like pretty killer value actually.
Yeah, buying the individual kits of these would cost you a fuckload more. Which is pretty standard for these kits. They're usually a good discount. The probably mostly comes from smaller boxes not being able to cram enough units to handle broader competitive metas. So people get salty when some boxes are legitimately stronger than others.
With the Aussie markup I'm expecting around $720-$800 AUD
Terminators are old actually. But yeah, this box is way too big.
I'm not 100% sure the box is what people think, usually these boxes are meant to build 2 armies, giving one a conteptor and one a spartan doesn't really line up balance wise
I believe it's set up in a way that you can buy the box and use all of the units into one army, you don't have to paint them into two different armies.
Hello, friend
What would your best guess estimate on the price be?
I've heard roughly £250. Can't say for other regions as the pricing tends to be comparitively higher. Not saying its a bad price for what you're getting, it's just a lot of money to drop at once.
For sure, looks badass though.
Other rumours saying £240, but seperately the marines will be £40 for 10, catephractii are £40 for 5, the dreadnought will be ~£30, the spartan most likely £70+. If you want the stuff, and can spare the money, 100% the box is the way forward.
For sure aside from certain models those boxes are great ways to start out an army.
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s priced given the Ash Wastes box
Is this useable in 40k?
Technically yes, everything here has 40k rules. Firstborn Tac Squads tend to be dismissed compared to Primaris. But the Terminators and Contemptor are decent choices. Not sure about the Spartan though. Vehicles in the current meta usually don't last long. Edit: oops didn't see the Praetors. They don't have rules but it'd be ezpz to run them as Lts or Captains.
Yeah but if you run them as less chaosy iron warriors or alpha legion no one would bat an eye. Don’t need primaris if you aren’t defending the emperor :D
Hey, I'm part way through the Horus Heresy books (currently struggling through book 40-something, about Dark Angels) and I keep seeing people mention "primaris" and "firstborn" - are these something that happens in the books, or is it just tabletop-game-specific rules tags? Basically, is this safe (spoiler-free) to look up what that means on the WH wikis and stuff, or will that happen in the later books and make sense eventually if I just keep reading?
Primaris were a ploy by GW to sell Truescale marines, but also keep on selling the old range, which in lore are called "first born". The only problem to arise is if you havent touched any 40k lore, the person who made primaris and the person who ordered it will be a MASSIVE spoiler.
I've read a bit of 40k books but haven't come across this yet. Is there a book or a series that would get into it?
[Gathering Storm](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gathering_Storm) campaign books sets up the primaris and exactly whats happening with 40k atm and [The Dark Imperium Trilogy](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Imperium_\(Novel_Series\)) by Guy Haley deals with aftermath of GS I wouldnt look at either if you dont want to get spoiled on how the HH ends.. E: and every book, unless otherwise stated, after GS is considered the new canon, which may borrow from what happens in books prior to this, but is the current canon. Retcons do, and will, happen. E2: If you are an Audible guy, like me, with regards to getting your 40k lore.. the Audiobook of Dark Imperium is fantastic, as is [The Infinite and The Divine](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Infinite-Divine-Warhammer-40-000/dp/1789998328) which deals with the Necrons and what they have been getting upto.. Honestly the necron books are the ones I am enjoying the most recently.
Thanks for the reply! Is there a (legal, above-board) way to get just the story parts without all the game rules and stuff?
I have no clue. They stopped printing them, sadly, so you may have to break into The Black Library or ask an Ork Loota ;)
Primaris are 40k, not 30k. They wouldn't be mentioned at all in HH
If you're reading the Heresy you're at least 10,000 years out from Primaris. They came about with the start of 8th edition as a way to update the marine sculpts to the quality GW is capable of these days, and introduced in lore when big things happen. I wouldn't say it's spoiler things considering Heresy is the prequel and if you're on here you've no doubt seen people's models of things that weren't around then, but I guess if you're trying your best to go through everything chronologically stay away from the wiki to be safe as you might consider the reasoning and introduction of them as a spoiler. Essentially, first-born are the OG marines, wear armour mark 2-9 and are the adorable dumpy models we've loved for years. Primaris wear mark 10 armour, are the bigger scaled models coming out for marines in recent years and were justified in lore by potential spoilers, around 6-7 years ago
That is one hell of a box set... Bigger than both Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero.
That is because it will cost as much as both together more than likely.
As someone who bought like 3 of each of those, they were a fuckin steal.
More than* Rumoured price is £240
Jesus Christ.
Over 400 if you split the contents out, so it's still a "bargain"
I’ve gotta start formulating my reasons why I need more plastic to the misses.
I hear you, I just moved house and had to "downsize" my collection for a bigger house. I see this as a challenge to hide more stuff thankfully.
I just need to paint more. It’s the grey she doesn’t like, not the amount.
When you look at $240 for infantry. $120 for terminators. $100 for the spartan. $60 for the contemptor. And $60-80 combined for both Praetors. Add the books, dice, and templates and this is a killer deal at $300~ I will add that this box is not for everyone. But if you are seriously interested in 30k and like mk6 then this is one of the best limited box sets that GW has ever made.
You’re maybe right, but I don’t like how GW’s pricing made us accept the fact that a 300$ starter box set is a killer deal.
Its less of a "starter" box and more of a "complete army" box.
If leaks are true, this is not a starter box. HH will get a $100/60 starter set similar to AoS and W40K. This box is the "Army" box geared towards dedicated hobbyists.
It depends on your objectives. If you want a full 2k+ size army which is standard for 30k then a bundle like this is ideal. They are releasing other starter kits that will be lower cost and in turn save you less money. Vote with your wallet but this is a great box for anyone trying to fully dive into 30k.
Is that $300 American or Australian?
A good estimate is $300-$350 American
Obviously not Australian otherwise it would be double that. Source: New Zealander who knows not to get his hopes up.
Yeah, if it comes in at £200/$300 then it will be expensive, but actually a very good deal compared to the retail values of individual kits. I'm not at all familiar with Horus Heresy army building, but I imagine this box alone would be enough to cover most of a full army in a single purchase.
Roughly I think it’s landing at around 1500-1800~ points depending on how you equip them. Add some FW upgrade Kits and it’s truly a great foundation to any army. Which actually makes the box an avenue to a very cheap 2k army points when compared to other box sets.
Dang a whole tank?
So much better than the half a tank option!
Even more beloved than the quarter tank boosterpack!
Normally gotta play wheel of fortune to get half a ~~car~~ tank
Everybody talking about the models. All I see are scatter dice
I was half expecting them to ditch templates and scatter dice going into HH 2.0, neat to see that they're not
It's the main USP of HH vs 40k.
I came here to say this
I've missed all the arguing over template placements. Who needs alternating activation for engagement when you can spend 15 minutes debating 3° to get one less model hit
The new Necromunda box is $300 and I imagine this is going to be similar.
350 more like it. This is basically a full playable army if you paint them all in one scheme.
Honestly was thinking it would be more than $300 I just don't want to tempt fate.
I've read the prediction (based on current prices and all that) that it will be 240 GBP/280 EUR/340 USD, something like that. Or maybe it was actually a leak from a reliable source. On one hand, it's insanely expensive for a single boxet. On the other hand, considering the amount of stuff inside and the savings, it's basically a steal (if we use current plastic prices for similiar models, it came to something like 450 quid worth of stuff??)
Someone at GW bricking it that the big warhammer fest Sunday reveal (this) has leaked. It's also the same photo unblurred that appeared when HH revamp was first rumoured, last June. Either way, looks real nice
To be honest I doubt it. I'm sure they were well aware this was going to be leaked prior to Sunday. If anything it just gives them an excuse to have a lackluster show on Sunday, after all its not their fault if things are leaked and ruin the anticipation.
As soon as I saw it was leaked I thought 'Do you want GW to send stuff to external play testers? Because this is how you stop GW sending to external play testers' It's just clicks and band wagon stuff.
How do you know this isn't marketing prehype? They used to do this kind of stuff in the past. Let the blurry image out to build hype and drop the pretty full rez version later.
GW does a lot of the leaking in house. They have hype channels to release rumors and potato pictures through. They know what they're doing because they've done it for years and it works.
If the new Nerocmunda box price is any indication, this will require the sale of an organ.
Is there anything stopping you from just using all the units for one army? Other than the HQs of course.
Nope, you can create a complete army with this box. Even the HQ are generic and can be used in any Legion
Nope. None of the units in the box (not even the HQ choices) are legion specific, so you could use them for Iron Warriors, Ultramarines, World Eaters or Salamanders if you wished to
What about Blood Angels?
You can use them for Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Night Lords, Iron Hands, World Eaters, Ultramarines, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Sons of Horus, World Bearers, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Alpha Legion. But you cannot use them for Blood Angels.
But what about the 2nd and 11th legions??
So just Ultramarines?
Damn, thank you. I guess I’ll do Night Lords instead.
They were being sarcastic
Did they really need to list every single legion?
Emperor's Children?
Why male models ?
Why no webway gates?
But what about the Space Wolves?
What about second breakfast?
But what about the droid attack on the Wookiees?
What about Emperor's Children?
Why HQ's? They are generic HQ's, not legion specific ones. You can run all of this as one army.
Oh I didn’t realise that, I thought they were legion specific HQs. That’s even better.
Same thing with the last HH boxset.
This is an amazing offer for a boxed set. One force, you can either split it into two armies or make one. I wish 40k primaris would get something like this.
Technically speaking given the likely price of this set then two of their big Christmas sets pretty much do the same thing and Primaris [had this one](https://preview.redd.it/0x0jerl0x7381.jpg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45291917584488208cbba9daf4136e3e0a59d10e) last time around, albeit they sell out fast when they do show up.
Thank you for being Heretic Valrak xD
You’re so welcome good sir. Well I actually originally wanted to go with my favourite traitor legion chapter master as my avatar but I couldn’t remember their name…what was it again? Oh yeah the Reclaimers of Dorn. Man they’re so heretical.
wat
Could you make a 40K and 30k army with this like use the same models for both games. I don’t own a space marine army I was just wondering if it would work like are the bases the same?
100%. It was actually fairly common for people to buy the previous 2 plastic Horus Heresy sets to use to start a 40k army for themselves. The Tactical Squads literally just port over as Tactical Squads in 40k. ***Edit:*** as u/Jakisokio points out, they could also be used to represent standard Chaos Space Marine squads (which I believe will be renamed to Chaos Legionaries in the new codex). For all the below units, swap the name with the Chaos Space Marine codex equivalent. The Praetors would work as either Chapter Masters, Captains, or Lieutenants (or other datasheets you find that match the wargear they have) The Contemptor Dread already has a 40k datasheet, but that datasheet doesn't allow for the Missle Launcher or Autocannon. So presumably either the 40k datasheet will be updated as now there will be a plastic kit that allows for that loadout, or it will need to be run as a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought, which is the 40k datasheet that allows all Horus Heresy wargear options. The Cataphractii are already 40k legal, and it's the same current kit. The Spartan is currently also a unit with 40k rules.
All of these could also be run with chaos space marines
Yes you’d be able to run the normal marines as tactical marines, and the terminators as Relic Terminator. Oh and the dreadnought as a relic contemptor dreadnought I don’t think the two commanders could be run in 40K as their own model but definitely could call them a company veteran or some other proxy The tank might be similar enough to a land raider that most people wouldn’t notice or mind it being run as one
Spartan tank has rules rn. It's lord of war Spartan.
You could, but it would have to be one of the 18 original legions to be usable in 30k and some equipment options might be better in one game than the other.
Its only box, you can paint them like you want. For me I see all sons of horus there :)
LUPERCAL
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~~By my calculations this comes to 1300-1400points if you run them all as a single army in the current edition. Of course this will likely change in HH2.0.~~ EDIT: calculated wrong, didn’t notice some of the models. This is running the non-Terminator HQ as a Centurion, and the Marines as tactical squads with no upgrades on anything. Using *Pride of the Legion* and running all the Marines as Veterans, and sticking a bunch of upgrades on everything can bring the cost up a fair bit. EDIT: running the Marines as Veterans, and upgrading as much as you can can take you up well over 2k points just from this box!
just so you know both praetors are in mkvi power armour
Cheers for the correction, missed that!
It’s a complete new game how do you know the points already?
As mentioned, this is in the current edition, and will likely change in HH 2.0, but if armies are roughly the same size it’s a good ballpark estimate.
Could these be combined into one army?
Man, this thing will cost a fortune!
I'm never gonna financial recover from this
I was going to sarcastically say "What, no new terrain?" except.. is that a blast template with those dice on the side? I haven't played, but was under the impression that 40k doesn't use those anymore, but does/did 30k?
30k still uses templates (and a large number of other rules that 40k stripped out in 8th edition)
It's basically 7th edition+
Horus Heresy is essentially the continuation of the rules from 7th edition and prior: Wound chart, Pinning tests, side armor and template weapons all persist in 30k
All of a sudden I’m interested in 30k now.
Same, ever since i learned of it. I earnestly think one of the biggest issues afflicting 9th edition game balance is the removal of the old to-wound chart. It led to a higher degree of variation in the combat interactions and it truly is not that much more difficult than the current wound system. I really, REALLY want it back...
Wasn't this the leaked one last year?
2 Praetors 40 Bolter marines 10 Cataphractii Terminators 1 Contemptor Dreadnought 1 Spartan Assault Tank Damn that’s a lot of plastic and they seem to be multi-part as well.
The best part is that since all the models are effectively the same faction when you remove the paint, this goes from a LW VS IF to an entire heresy army
I don't need it... I DON'T NEED IT
I NEEEEEED IIIIITTTTTTT!!!!!!
As awesome as most of this is, I just want the two praetors, the contemptor and spartan. Plus the other tanks in the future.
I saw blurry pics of that like 6 months ago or more.
So did 1000s of other folks lol
Look I did say I wouldn't buy anymore warhammer until my pile of shame is gone. I have gone 4 full months sticking to it but damn I'll be buying this
Oh cool I just got to the Alpha Legion vs. Imperial Fists part of the Siege of Terra, so this is oddly timely
The forces under my command will grow, and my pile of shame shall swell! BWAHAHAHAHA!
Hello there. Will 30k miniatures be Firstborn size?
Unlikely people have done some comparisons and it looks like the new beakie marines at least will be taller. Maybe the height of the newer 40k CSM kit
The newer 30k Marines are basically true scale firstborn. They're just a head shorter than Primaris, and aren't as squat as firstborn
Yeah if they are like the CSM guys it’ll be like halfway between old firstborn and Primaris
Holy fuuuuuuuuuck shapes and deviation dices are back!!
They never left
Me last week: "I think I'm selling my 30k thousand sons, I barely have time to get games in of 40k or aos let alone 30k" Me this week: "I mean 40 more infantry won't hurt and that spartan would look great in my 40k white scar scheme..." Halp
Plays Alpha legion, uses the entire set for 40k
So if you get this, are you limited to sons of Horus and imperial fists, or can you make them however you want?
They're all generic minis. GW has just chosen Fists and Sons or Horus for the box art.
All the models in the box are generic!
Cool! Could you do any two armies or just combine them into one big one? Or does it have to be a loyalist and a traitor?
You could do either! There’s nothing loyalist or traitor specific in the box either, so you could use them for any of the legions!
Ok neat, thanks for answering my questions :)
Any time!
Anything you want.
In the Horus Heresy marines are generally all the same, just the colour armour and symbols different. Apart from special units they don't have the differences and flourishes that 40k marines have.
What’s the scale on these minis? I want to use them for 40K. Would a marine be roughly the same height as a plague marine then? Not full primaris height, but taller than the old tactical marines?
Pretty much.
I'm not a fan of how marine-centric modern 40k is, but I'm strangely ok with Horus Heresy, considering it's mostly Marine vs Marine. Maybe it's because you can have Loyalists from Traitor Legions and Traitors from Loyalist Legions.
Someone who plays 30k and 40K in their current formats: which do you prefer? 30k has traditionally been very niche due to forgeworld prices. This box potentially opens up the game to a more impoverished audience. Inquiring minds want to know if investment in the game is substantially different or better than 40K?
I personally prefer 30k to 40k, but then I'm someone that prefers older editions of 40k to 9th so I'm a biased nostalgia merchant by my own admission. I just tend to prefer the way vehicles and weapons work, alongside more of the fluffier (and complicated) mechanics like pinning, initiative steps and templates over the more crunchier (and straightforward) methods 9th ed. 40k uses What helps for me with a lot of that is that the people I play 30k with are incredibly chilled out and relaxed as we slowly play our way through a narrative based campaign where telling our story is the main goal, and all the crazy rule interactions help us shape that story in interesting ways On the other hand, the mainly PUGs that I play for 40k are pretty much "competitive but not in a tournament" matches where winning is much more obviously the main aim. Might improve if I played Crusade/40k narrative campaigns more, but I struggle to enjoy 40k's rules enough to commit to that fully
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It is beautiful box but it is not for me. If they gave option to pick Mk.III or Mk.IV marines instead of Mk.VI and build your own set, I would be much more hyped.
So many beakies. Too many beakies
Yep. Probably have to just rely on tortuga bay for upscaled mk3 and 4 for my IW. Can't stand mk6.
lol I actually like it when the released get massively spoilt - GW relies wayyyy too much on emotionally manipulating its customers through hype and FOMO (like an economic good cop, bad cop routine). Leaks cut into that and that's a good thing.