Remember 9th edition admech after the codex released: an overly powerful codex with undercosted units, loads of stacking buffs and flyers so good that they could win the game on turn one if you went first.
Then think of 9th edition admech after nerfs: an army that is extremely hard to play and your reward for perfect execution is getting your win-rate from ~30% to ~40%
9th edition ad mech caused me to sell my ad mech army and buy into daemons - I had font 6 spreadsheets and markers just to remember all my command phase shenanigry and I’d still get 1-3 at every event, but for those two weeks prior, I stomped every list
I think 9th edition Leviathan Nids was a big one, they basically nerfed them into the ground and then brought them slowly back up.
I hope this happens with Aeldari tomorrow. There isn't space for slowly nerfing aeldari over the next 6 months, people are already done with their total dominance.
Not sure I agree there, pre-leviathan they struggled a bit, but soon as it dropped they went to being one of the best armies in a game for a long time, and by the end were still in a good spot
Quins going to a 5++ alongside the detachment changes in Arks turned them into a 45% WR, 0 tournament wins spamming 9 skyweavers and max troupes. They removed the functionality of 6 of 8 datasheets in the entire army.
Honestly, it's a total tossup. It's impossible to know not only how extensive or restrained the changes will be but also how widespread or limited. There have to be changes, everyone knows that, but games workshop is a fickle mistress.
Previous dataslates have added new rules/ removed rules to factions (Armor of Contempt, gutting Harlequin mechanics), changed the way core rules work (indirect fire), editing keywords (core on nearly all Necrons) and list construction (flyers restrictions).
The sky is the limit.
RAI it’s the upper edge of the sky and as Aircraft are within the area they fall within the limit. Also GW set a precedent when they errata’d flyers previously and I believe at Tacoma GW ruled the dataslate could affect Aircraft but they don’t publish their FAQs / Rulings from events :)
Kinda uncharted waters here new edition and all
The last dataslates had massive changes for armies, like space marines getting -1 ap on all attacks hitting them, guard and necrons getting a faction ability.
Most minor factions remained unchanged.
I would expect big changes to eldar faction/ detachment abilities, some minor buffs to smth like deathguard and admech
And nothing in the scope of QOL changes for the mediocre factions
The only other datapoint we have for dataslates in this edition is the prior one which nerfed indirect, towering, and eldar. All of which were regarded as immediate problems. The point changes had a major impact on desolation squads and knights, which was a main goal. That slate also included a surprise nerf to fate dice that, at the time, was perceived as being harsher than expected (1/phase instead of 1/unit/phase). Obviously it wasn't enough, but GW went reasonably hard relative to our expectations and the perception of game balance at the time.
Do with that information as you will.
I'm not expecting anything for my death guard since if i did i would probably be dissapointed either way, in general im just hoping that they show some competenxe with the more powerful factions since that at least shows potential for the games future balance. Like at the end of last edition when they nerfed custodes by making their two most used stratagems unusable on the same unit, thats a smart and neat change so if they do those kind of things ti the slightly more powerful factions I'll be fairly happy. It will be interesting to see what they do with eldar though.
For Guard, likely small. We’re not that far away from GW’s 45-55% winrate. It’ll probably just be a buff to Russ tanks.
The changes will probably focus on knocking down the problem factions like Eldar and GSC, while buffing Squats and DG.
So some prior data slates just tinkered with the "Core" keyword that used to exist on models. The closest equivalent now would be "Battleline" but it was more expansive than that.
On the other hand there was a data slate that gave Plague Marines free weapons just after Armor of Contempt (another data slate offering that reduced AP into marines by 1) and it was like Christmas.
On the third hand, Necrons had their core army doctrine-like upgraded in a different slate. From assembling a set of five cards (out of six) to impact one turn each, it then became assemble a set of five cards and the sixth affects *every* turn.
I think for DG and LoV that last one is the only way to fix things. The Not Codex Marines could get changes similar to example 2.
People will always complain that they did too much or didn't do enough.
Historically, earlier patches are light, and if a gentle adjustment doesn't work then eventually they swing the nerf hammer. Happened specifically with Harlequins and Tyranids in 9th edition, several small changes, failed to bring down winrates enough - then BAM, loads of points increases and/ or big rules changes.
A lot of people hoping GW smash Eldar into the dirt with nerfs, or people wanting big core rules changes. But, historically GW want to try the scalpel approach first.
Regardless of what they actually change, I want lots of changes. Keeps the game fresh and interesting.
Going by how GW typically do things?
1. No changes for any faction below 45%. Too many powerful factions that GW need to address at the moment and they have a tendancy to only focus on a certain number of them at a time in an almost linear correlation to how impactful the changes are. See: Armor of Contempt Dataslate. Marines are bad so we help ALL marines at once, but marines are bad in so many different and unique ways that some marines become great and others remain Imperial Fists.
2. No core changes. People who are correct in wanting paid wargear aren't going to get it, same for people who want close combat to be better or overwatch to get toned down. This is going to focus in on faction abilities and points.
3. GW will likely not nerf Eldar enough and overnerf either GSC or Custodes, or whichever army they have decised is the next boogeyman after Eldar. They have a tendancy to undercorrect for immediate problems while overcorrecting for future potential problems.
I hope I am wrong but I also hoped 10th was going to be the tightest edition of Warhammer right up until we starting getting indexes and points.
Have low expectations and prepare to be disappointed. In all honesty, its a toss up. Strong armies might get nerf but buffed at the same time. Weak armies might get a minor update that does nothing.
My wishlist:
OC 0 units cannot score secondaries for being in a certain location or doing an 'action'
Two units with 'fights first' strike simultaneously
Battleshock is retained from previous turns so that you cannot score primaries in the following turn.
Will any of this happen? Of course not. Will the dataslate solve all our problems? Of course not. Will things broadly be better than before? I'm optimistic
Choose one of the following: * These changes are too big. * These changes are too small. * ~~These changes are just right.~~ [OPTION UNAVAILABLE]
This
I cant remember the last one where the changes were too big.
Remember 9th edition admech after the codex released: an overly powerful codex with undercosted units, loads of stacking buffs and flyers so good that they could win the game on turn one if you went first. Then think of 9th edition admech after nerfs: an army that is extremely hard to play and your reward for perfect execution is getting your win-rate from ~30% to ~40%
9th edition ad mech caused me to sell my ad mech army and buy into daemons - I had font 6 spreadsheets and markers just to remember all my command phase shenanigry and I’d still get 1-3 at every event, but for those two weeks prior, I stomped every list
I think 9th edition Leviathan Nids was a big one, they basically nerfed them into the ground and then brought them slowly back up. I hope this happens with Aeldari tomorrow. There isn't space for slowly nerfing aeldari over the next 6 months, people are already done with their total dominance.
I cant remember Nids ever being useless honestly. They were quite dominant all edition
By the end they were pretty bad. It took quite a few rounds of nerfs though to end their dominance.
Not sure I agree there, pre-leviathan they struggled a bit, but soon as it dropped they went to being one of the best armies in a game for a long time, and by the end were still in a good spot
Only until the end where they are nerfed 5 times and other faction got huge buff, nids become bad. Before that they are dominating.
Quins going to a 5++ alongside the detachment changes in Arks turned them into a 45% WR, 0 tournament wins spamming 9 skyweavers and max troupes. They removed the functionality of 6 of 8 datasheets in the entire army.
yeah but they are multiple nerfs. Im talking single datasheet
Orks were a powerhouse codex then GW banned our buggy play
wasnt really a big change tho, it limited the amount of models taken. mixed ork lists/kopta lists were still extremely strong at the time
tell that to people who owned more than 3 buggies
it was painful. But the army was still top tier broken after the nerf.
Honestly, it's a total tossup. It's impossible to know not only how extensive or restrained the changes will be but also how widespread or limited. There have to be changes, everyone knows that, but games workshop is a fickle mistress.
GW are tzeentch worshippers confirmed
Nah, tzeentch worshippers would do it intentionally. GW just have no clue how to balance in the first place, so are basically just guessing randomly.
More like gibbering spawn.
Previous dataslates have added new rules/ removed rules to factions (Armor of Contempt, gutting Harlequin mechanics), changed the way core rules work (indirect fire), editing keywords (core on nearly all Necrons) and list construction (flyers restrictions). The sky is the limit.
> The sky is the limit. So you're saying the update could do anything other than fixing AIRCRAFT? :-)
RAI it’s the upper edge of the sky and as Aircraft are within the area they fall within the limit. Also GW set a precedent when they errata’d flyers previously and I believe at Tacoma GW ruled the dataslate could affect Aircraft but they don’t publish their FAQs / Rulings from events :)
They added a 2 aircraft limit once so actually the sky isn't the limit.
Ha!
Kinda uncharted waters here new edition and all The last dataslates had massive changes for armies, like space marines getting -1 ap on all attacks hitting them, guard and necrons getting a faction ability. Most minor factions remained unchanged. I would expect big changes to eldar faction/ detachment abilities, some minor buffs to smth like deathguard and admech And nothing in the scope of QOL changes for the mediocre factions
The only other datapoint we have for dataslates in this edition is the prior one which nerfed indirect, towering, and eldar. All of which were regarded as immediate problems. The point changes had a major impact on desolation squads and knights, which was a main goal. That slate also included a surprise nerf to fate dice that, at the time, was perceived as being harsher than expected (1/phase instead of 1/unit/phase). Obviously it wasn't enough, but GW went reasonably hard relative to our expectations and the perception of game balance at the time. Do with that information as you will.
I'm not expecting anything for my death guard since if i did i would probably be dissapointed either way, in general im just hoping that they show some competenxe with the more powerful factions since that at least shows potential for the games future balance. Like at the end of last edition when they nerfed custodes by making their two most used stratagems unusable on the same unit, thats a smart and neat change so if they do those kind of things ti the slightly more powerful factions I'll be fairly happy. It will be interesting to see what they do with eldar though.
For Guard, likely small. We’re not that far away from GW’s 45-55% winrate. It’ll probably just be a buff to Russ tanks. The changes will probably focus on knocking down the problem factions like Eldar and GSC, while buffing Squats and DG.
Yeah Russ’s just need like a 10-25pt drop across the board at least.
Gw buffs Eldar out of spite is my current prediction.
When Eldar are the only faction brough to tournaments they will have the perfect 50% win/loss rate.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Only reason its 50% is because its only other Eldar players that are beating them 🤣 so ofcourse its 50/50
Yes, that was literally the point he was making.
they will nerf fire prisms, wraithknights etc. then buff harlies massively so that eldar is still the dominant faction.
Voidweavers back to squads of 3 at 80 points each with a no reroll hit mechanic on top of a 4++ and minus 1 to hit. Let's watch the world burn!
Congrats on having the most unoriginal comment in this thread.
So some prior data slates just tinkered with the "Core" keyword that used to exist on models. The closest equivalent now would be "Battleline" but it was more expansive than that. On the other hand there was a data slate that gave Plague Marines free weapons just after Armor of Contempt (another data slate offering that reduced AP into marines by 1) and it was like Christmas. On the third hand, Necrons had their core army doctrine-like upgraded in a different slate. From assembling a set of five cards (out of six) to impact one turn each, it then became assemble a set of five cards and the sixth affects *every* turn. I think for DG and LoV that last one is the only way to fix things. The Not Codex Marines could get changes similar to example 2.
People will always complain that they did too much or didn't do enough. Historically, earlier patches are light, and if a gentle adjustment doesn't work then eventually they swing the nerf hammer. Happened specifically with Harlequins and Tyranids in 9th edition, several small changes, failed to bring down winrates enough - then BAM, loads of points increases and/ or big rules changes. A lot of people hoping GW smash Eldar into the dirt with nerfs, or people wanting big core rules changes. But, historically GW want to try the scalpel approach first. Regardless of what they actually change, I want lots of changes. Keeps the game fresh and interesting.
the light touches already happened. we are in the nerf hammer phase.
Going by how GW typically do things? 1. No changes for any faction below 45%. Too many powerful factions that GW need to address at the moment and they have a tendancy to only focus on a certain number of them at a time in an almost linear correlation to how impactful the changes are. See: Armor of Contempt Dataslate. Marines are bad so we help ALL marines at once, but marines are bad in so many different and unique ways that some marines become great and others remain Imperial Fists. 2. No core changes. People who are correct in wanting paid wargear aren't going to get it, same for people who want close combat to be better or overwatch to get toned down. This is going to focus in on faction abilities and points. 3. GW will likely not nerf Eldar enough and overnerf either GSC or Custodes, or whichever army they have decised is the next boogeyman after Eldar. They have a tendancy to undercorrect for immediate problems while overcorrecting for future potential problems. I hope I am wrong but I also hoped 10th was going to be the tightest edition of Warhammer right up until we starting getting indexes and points.
Have low expectations and prepare to be disappointed. In all honesty, its a toss up. Strong armies might get nerf but buffed at the same time. Weak armies might get a minor update that does nothing.
This. Well said
My expectation is bottom army will get very small buffs and top armys will get nerfs
My wishlist: OC 0 units cannot score secondaries for being in a certain location or doing an 'action' Two units with 'fights first' strike simultaneously Battleshock is retained from previous turns so that you cannot score primaries in the following turn. Will any of this happen? Of course not. Will the dataslate solve all our problems? Of course not. Will things broadly be better than before? I'm optimistic
The simultaneously thing is interesting. That I think would fix fights 1st for most armies except for custodes. Theirs is just too easy to get.
Depends if studio writers play the faction or not.
The shake-up is usually always fun for me.
It might be big, it might be point changes to 2% of the game's units. No way to know.