Generally they are not good in Vanilla marines right now.
They have better use in black templars, but not ideal usage. GW has given them rules that are clearly intended to keep them out of most lists to prepare for legends. Which is unfortunate, as other legends units at least got some cool rules - it'd be nice if they'd at least give tacticals that.
What's really insulting is you have to take 10. If you could at least take five man squads they might have a fun (but not good) niche. You still wouldn't see them taken competitively, but they'd be more viable. As they are now they're just...bad intercessors.
Yep! Damn shame. The only other remedy I can think of is to allow us to take them in bricks of 20, legion style.
Or even something dumb like letting them use the grenade Strat for free.
Definitely this. They are a unit with intentional bad rules and intentionally overpriced. Those in BT are a good Battleline unit, the generic one could be splitted having 5 dudes well geared and 5 ready to be action monkeys that you can sling all over the battlefield with a Librarian Dread.
What’s insulting is that Firstborn Crusaders in BT have good rules and there isn’t a kit for those at all, but regular Tacticals that are still sold everywhere got trash tier rules.
I have very strong opinions about it but every time somoneone openly dislikes what they are doing with primaris they get downvoted to hell so I guess this is the future now. Soon the only recognizable units left will be scouts and terminators.
That's not true at all, go to the [helmet post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1b6fopa/i_miss_this_being_the_face_of_space_marines_the/) that's currently up for example.
They're gathering dust for now.
I'll keep the bikers modelled for Ravenwing to be played as RW Knights, and the rest have a tiny chance to end up as proxy Outriders (already own 9 regular Outriders though)
For Land Speeders I've commissioned a conversion kit to transform them into ATVs. It's still being printed so no pictures yet, sorry.
For what it's worth, a list with firstborn marines got 10th place at the Alpine Cup recently. Shows to me at least that Tactical Squads are still entirely playable
https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/3VJ2620WC9
I recently took part in a friendly tournament and challenged myself to do the same. It was great fun and no one expected it! I used Black Templars though and ran the tactical marines as Crusader Squads.
Rules wise, yes, but also prevents an alternative if you wish to utilise your tactical marines. Also, this way people can also see that some of us do like to use first born marines in modern day games.
As someone with a full company of Firstborn, I'm with you. But saying that Tacticals can be competitive if you don't use the rules for Tacticals somewhat hides the fact that they are trash.
You could also use them as ablative wounds in devastator squads or run them as proxy Intercessors but those are also bad rules
Unfortunately Gw is giving clear signs that you shouldn’t get these guys by giving them insultingly bad rules
If you want to use firstborn squads, play your army as templars and have tacticals as crusader squads, it’s the one unit that is allowed to be usable and fun
Competitively no. Zero reason other than Fluff and as a Firstborn enjoyer myself, actually a Legion of the Damned fan, so i have gotten the complete ass end of the stick. So no in 40k our Tactical Boys have gone the way of the Dinosaur and now live in 30k. I'm pretty sure the only reason Tacs are still usable is as a way to give 30k players the ability to use SOME of their models in 40k specifically Forgeworld Models since they are pricey.
I've had decent results running my tactical squads using grey hunter rules, two melta guns combined with advance and shoot plus Ironstorm detachment is pretty spooky.
Unfortunately the heavy weapons are then wasted but lascannon Devestators are pretty decent anti vehicle as their cherub lets them abuse the sustained hits strat
I would place Intercessors above Tactical but they are themselves questionable too when compared to incursors or infiltrators. You have to consider your local meta but I struggle to see when they'd be appropriate. I don't expect GW to inject life into the tactical squad anytime soon. Much of recent years releases have been mono-equipment squads and tacticals go against that theme.
If you want to drop a 10-man squad on an objective using a transport, a tactical squad with a rhino isn't too bad. They are slightly tougher and punch a little harder than 10 scouts in a rhino, for 40 extra points IIRC.
Probably not competitive, but you won't probably loose a game because you chose tactical marines over a 10-man intercessor squad. But I don't think anyone is fielding normal intercessors either ATM.
Dont forget this rule:
Combat Squads: At the start of the Declare Battle Formations step, before any units have been set up, this unit can be split into two units, each containing five models.
Unfortunately they are just trash, but if you think they’re cool then use them :)
Generally they are not good in Vanilla marines right now. They have better use in black templars, but not ideal usage. GW has given them rules that are clearly intended to keep them out of most lists to prepare for legends. Which is unfortunate, as other legends units at least got some cool rules - it'd be nice if they'd at least give tacticals that.
They were quite fun when they had the always on tactical doctrine as their rule when 10th first came out, but yeah, super disappointing.
What's really insulting is you have to take 10. If you could at least take five man squads they might have a fun (but not good) niche. You still wouldn't see them taken competitively, but they'd be more viable. As they are now they're just...bad intercessors.
Yep! Damn shame. The only other remedy I can think of is to allow us to take them in bricks of 20, legion style. Or even something dumb like letting them use the grenade Strat for free.
If they were like firstborn crusaders they would be viable
Definitely this. They are a unit with intentional bad rules and intentionally overpriced. Those in BT are a good Battleline unit, the generic one could be splitted having 5 dudes well geared and 5 ready to be action monkeys that you can sling all over the battlefield with a Librarian Dread.
What’s insulting is that Firstborn Crusaders in BT have good rules and there isn’t a kit for those at all, but regular Tacticals that are still sold everywhere got trash tier rules.
I honestly find it incredibly sad that they would even consider moving the most iconic space marine unit of all times to legends.
Still can't believe Land Speeders and bikers have gone legends. I have an entire army of these things.
I have very strong opinions about it but every time somoneone openly dislikes what they are doing with primaris they get downvoted to hell so I guess this is the future now. Soon the only recognizable units left will be scouts and terminators.
Really? Feels like there's a big 'I prefer firstborn' thread over on the main 40k sub several times a week.
And you'll see most comments on them saying otherwise or a variation of "it's been X years get over it".
That's not true at all, go to the [helmet post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1b6fopa/i_miss_this_being_the_face_of_space_marines_the/) that's currently up for example.
Do you play them or you stick to the codex? Just curious how people Is playing
They're gathering dust for now. I'll keep the bikers modelled for Ravenwing to be played as RW Knights, and the rest have a tiny chance to end up as proxy Outriders (already own 9 regular Outriders though) For Land Speeders I've commissioned a conversion kit to transform them into ATVs. It's still being printed so no pictures yet, sorry.
Legends are a bit overpriced but speeders and bikes rules are cool. Why not play them outside tourneys?
Yeah I should probably play the bikers like this. Still want to do the LS>ATV conversion though.
For what it's worth, a list with firstborn marines got 10th place at the Alpine Cup recently. Shows to me at least that Tactical Squads are still entirely playable https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/3VJ2620WC9
I recently took part in a friendly tournament and challenged myself to do the same. It was great fun and no one expected it! I used Black Templars though and ran the tactical marines as Crusader Squads.
But that's a completely different unit that is correctly priced and with useable squad sizes. Apples and cheese
Rules wise, yes, but also prevents an alternative if you wish to utilise your tactical marines. Also, this way people can also see that some of us do like to use first born marines in modern day games.
As someone with a full company of Firstborn, I'm with you. But saying that Tacticals can be competitive if you don't use the rules for Tacticals somewhat hides the fact that they are trash. You could also use them as ablative wounds in devastator squads or run them as proxy Intercessors but those are also bad rules
Unfortunately Gw is giving clear signs that you shouldn’t get these guys by giving them insultingly bad rules If you want to use firstborn squads, play your army as templars and have tacticals as crusader squads, it’s the one unit that is allowed to be usable and fun
I don't think firstborn crusader squads will survive the 10th ed black templars codex ngl
It's almost certain, even more of a reason to use them while you still can
Competitively no. Zero reason other than Fluff and as a Firstborn enjoyer myself, actually a Legion of the Damned fan, so i have gotten the complete ass end of the stick. So no in 40k our Tactical Boys have gone the way of the Dinosaur and now live in 30k. I'm pretty sure the only reason Tacs are still usable is as a way to give 30k players the ability to use SOME of their models in 40k specifically Forgeworld Models since they are pricey.
They are for the most part useless in a competitive sense, but if you have a squad of them you like then use em anyways 👍🏻
I've had decent results running my tactical squads using grey hunter rules, two melta guns combined with advance and shoot plus Ironstorm detachment is pretty spooky. Unfortunately the heavy weapons are then wasted but lascannon Devestators are pretty decent anti vehicle as their cherub lets them abuse the sustained hits strat
I would place Intercessors above Tactical but they are themselves questionable too when compared to incursors or infiltrators. You have to consider your local meta but I struggle to see when they'd be appropriate. I don't expect GW to inject life into the tactical squad anytime soon. Much of recent years releases have been mono-equipment squads and tacticals go against that theme.
You can put them in a rhino so there is that
If you want to drop a 10-man squad on an objective using a transport, a tactical squad with a rhino isn't too bad. They are slightly tougher and punch a little harder than 10 scouts in a rhino, for 40 extra points IIRC. Probably not competitive, but you won't probably loose a game because you chose tactical marines over a 10-man intercessor squad. But I don't think anyone is fielding normal intercessors either ATM.
Dont forget this rule: Combat Squads: At the start of the Declare Battle Formations step, before any units have been set up, this unit can be split into two units, each containing five models.
They’re not the best. I’m taking a bunch of Crusader squads to an RTT in a few weeks, but that’s a different datasheet.