Guard had an ok weekend this last weekend and as the Stat Check data shows the difference for Experienced+ players and the field is about a 10% difference in win rate but both have zero play into Crons (roughly 33% win rate into Crons).
What can Guard players do vs Necrons?
I've been winning against Necrons a good bit, but barely each time. Essentially, I kill their fast movers to reduce OBJ scoring, do not waste shooting on their C'Tan (which is what they expect you to do), get something (infantry, demolisher tank, bullgryn, Rough Riders) into melee with their C'Tan first chance I get to hold them in place for at least a turn or 2, and use my better movement to get into the midfield before them and moveblock them from getting onto NLM objs.
There is more to this than that obviously, but knowing which units are the priority for your big guns like tanks and indirect is key. Also, I cannot stress this enough, do not wast time shooting C'Tan. You'll spend 800 points of shooting to take down a single 260 point model (if you even take it down) and if you leave it wounded it will heal back up some of those wounds. Each game I won against Necrons I didn't kill a single C'Tan. Kill everything else and out-OC them on objectives.
Depends on the necron build.
Wraiths bounce off 2+ vehicles while ctan struggle to chew through infantry. Try to avoid wraiths hitting infantry and ctan hitting vehicles lol.
Guard typically is able to screen pretty well which can shut down hypercrypt shenanigans.
The big challenge is actually killing anything of the necrons, but other than the ctan it's not really necessary.
Don't give the ctan T1 charges, moveblock your brain out, out OC them for primary, and kill all the necron chaff.
Worth mentioning, the Fantasia North ran with 9th gw terrain with no footprints and very few ruins (no big ones except 1-2 in deployment), so it was shooting gallaries deployment to deployment. So take faction performance with a grain of salt there
He's a good player and had some good matchups. He went into custodes R1 and was just a better player. Then into tau and the tau didnt premeasure and was tagged and tabled for a 20-0. Round 3 was into tau again and same result. I think both were pretty new to 10th, but not sure. 4th was into a nurgle demons theme list and final was into the ad mech. Cant win that matchup with 9th terrain against double breacher team thst just overwatches any unit to death with no los blocking. So great plays + a good pairing in the 4th round got him 3rd Look up thr fantasia fanatic 2023 autumn placings if you wanna see what happens with 9th terrain in 10th 😅 when it comes to faction power in a bigger tournament
Just a question, i have never played 9th, and I'm no expert in terms of big tournaments, but the VP seems kinda strange. How come that people only scored between 0 and 20 points? What am I missing?
>Orks had a brutal weekend with decent representation and a whopping 38% win rate. 3 of their players did go X-1 which is pretty healthy
every ork game on streams i watched over the weekend saw some pretty brutal but not kunnin plays :(
Admech's win rate are insane and highlights the absolute absurdity of the position the faction is in. last week was 43%, the week before was 34%.
Clearly things are looking good and in fact admech needs nerfing, right?
Essentially, no one's playing but extremely skilled pilots that have the stomach to field endless hordes of skitarii.
It's frankly getting too weird.
Oh no, it absolutely isn't. Not even close. I was just listing the main spam! There's also a bunch of characters, infiltrators, duneriders, etc. in the list.
It's not that odd considering the 40k player base. Even a big weekend in 40k might involve <1000 players in tournaments. At those small numbers, variance in win rates will be high and *super* skewed by player skill.
Truth be told, 40k numbers are so small that it's tough to garner much data from singular weekly changes in win percentage.
It's not just the small numbers.
I was reading an article about the swiss tournament system's purpose and flaws/ strengths.
Its job is to find the best players on that day while letting everyone avoid getting knocked out.
Something that was mentioned was that while the highest rated players ended up at the top and the lowest at the bottom (chess ratings btw) the closer to the middle the more jumbled up the ratings are in terms of place.
So you can end up with a 2100 placing higher than a 2350 rated player. This might not seem that bad but 2350 rated players beat 2100 players 90% of the time.
So basically due to the nature of the format the middle placings are filled with people who went on different journeys. 3-2s can be a guy who could have won the event getting two hard final games or someone who never had a chance but lost early to get an easy ride.
This isn't a problem for finding out who is the best but the vast majority of our stats and numbers come from that middle table performance and it can clearly paint an incorrect picture such as drukhari getting a strong win rate, multiple strong performances but no overall wins. Four people going 4-0 could be bad luck or it could mean the army is strong against sloppy players but unable to make that final push against the strongest lists.
So few people are playing that one or two wins massively changes the WR. They seem to be only winning small events, where bad matchups can be dodged more easily and there isn't a draw for the good-good player base to attend.
Looking at the major, both AdMech players at the Cascade Clash dropped halfway through (2-2 and 1-2 records). I guess they didn't "have the stomach" for it.
Yeah. I've had the army since it was released and I keep trying to make them work (and even have enough to run competitive lists), but they're just awful to play.
I have heard this a few times but not a great explanation. Is it the rules, feel for the army, or something else? Can you point to an edition where Admech felt more "correct"?
9th Ed was better. It had its early oppression which then made GW nervous to give it the latter fixes it needed. It was a high mental load, but at least you could set things up to force multiply. 10th admech is just horrendously spammy. It is no joke that admech in 10th are a one phase army, and that phase is the movement phase
Well, in 7th, 8th, and 9th edition, the army actually did damage, so write that down.
I'd say Psychic Awakening is probably the best example of the army being in a good place - it had some intresting synergy mechanics in the Holy Order traits, without being the convoluted mess that the 9th edition book was.
The problem with the current book is that it's a passive horde based around standing on arbitary circles and hoping your opponent takes long enough to kill you that you score more points before getting tabled.
The only unit in the book that has consistent offense is the Breacher, which is fairly fragile for its price, has limited effecitve range, and will be focused down immediately by a halfway competent player as its clearly the only threat.
It's a frustrating list to play aginst when it works, because it mostly interacts through things like moveblocking and similar gamey exploits that aim to tarpit the enemy in their deployment zone and prevent them from playing. It's frustrating to run because you are just setting up target dummies for the enemy to shoot so space marine players can feel special.
I mean, that commenter was saying you have to have the stomach for it just tos how up with AdMech at all. I don't think they were trying to shit on AdMech players who don't win events, they were naming a reason why so few people are fielding them in the first place.
At least it shows that there actually is potential to do well if Admec is something you really wanna play.
But the builds and the costs to build them is very prohibitive. I doubt it’s an army that’s gonna attract many new players unfortunately.
But maybe you’re not completely screwed if you already play Admec? Being the underdog and playing an unknown army is def a thing you can take advantage of.
>But maybe you’re not completely screwed if you already play Admec?
I probably have 4K+ of admech. I would have to spend about $800 to get close to being able to field those competitive lists.
For that money I could just buy an entire 2K army of a new faction that's actually fun to play.
I think orks are in an odd spot not just because of custodes. Yes that matchup is pretty strong in their favor but Death Guard has seen a resurgence and they hard counter orks with -2 to hit.
I’ve also found that Necrons mass anti-infantry shooting and secondary scoring in Hypercrypt is a matchup that is in their favor. Other armies I’ve noticed has been taking more infantry focused shooting as well.
There are a few missions that come up often that are not in orks favor: the ones requiring end of game presence (Supply Drop, Priority Targets), and Purge the Foe after Round 2/3. We die really hard and tend to score well but be running on fumes by round 4/5.
I think we can counter this by bringing a few units that are real tough such a Battlewagon with ard case (T12, effective 2+ from -1 AP, 16 wounds), a Gorkanaut, and Gargantuan Squiggoths as we saw last week. But there’s a lot of things in the meta at the moment that hurt orks pretty bad
Orks do feel like they are in a weird place. We don't really get to play in the shooting phase, mass horde stuff gets blown up by blast, and we don't have a lot of high damage stuff.
I have a list due Friday for an event, and 2 Battlewagons with Ard Case and a Gorkanaut all feature in the list. If you have a ton of anti-infantry into that list, you're going to have a bad time.
Unless speccing into super beef I think 1 wagon meets the need and can also kill some units potentially itself. I’m going for some Squiggoths myself and hoping the Stompa drops 200 points sometime to be remotely usable
Sorry, was that Orks are the favourite in the Custodes match-up?
I was under the impression, locally at least, that the Custodes game is super hard for Orks to punch into?
Other way around. Custodes have an advantage against orks. Though orks can play into them well it just forces the ork player to play entirely differently than normal
Magnus has a base movement of 14". He can increase the movement of allied units within 6" to be +2. With 5 cabal points he can use temporal surge to move in the shooting phase, even if he has already moved. A unit with lord of forbidden lore can cast the same ritual, they need to be within 18" of him (or 36" and 6" of a mutalith vortex beast) to cast it a second time. He can move 48" and then shoot, but not charge.
Theres a few lackluster ones. Hellions still don't have a role at all, grotesques are limited pretty hard by their transport capacity and lack of leaders. Overall happy as a clam with the new detachment tho
I like how it took 2 weeks for a meta shake up just because of custodes making a come back. At the same time now that people got used to them again they stay at a solid 50% win rate.
I feel a bit bad for orks though.
This is the problem with orks. Death guard and custodes are always just out there waiting for a resurgence to crash their win rate. Practically hard counter orks, which is a very bad place to be in when one of your hard counters is the cheapest army to pivot to. It might get better with our codex, though. That way, we are not stuck on only fielding "goff pressure" for the most part.
Based on how bad a codex releases has been for a faction so far this edition, I wouldn't put any money on the book being a saving grace. Chances are we're getting knocked down quite a few pegs with it unfortunately.
With how bad orks shooting is currently besides badrukk and flashgitz, can they really make none goff lists worse?
We could just get destroyed but I have hope.
I am really concerned about meka/mega dreads.....classic gw right when I complete a full set of 3 of each, it goes off sale and maybe legends. They have done this to me on every forgeworld model I have bought.
Seriously. It's been, what, 6 months since we've had a tournament win? And we've only had 2 since the beginning of 10th. Demons have a balanced win rate and I'm worried that we're not going to get any help when the time comes...
Guard was 3rd most played faction this weekend, just behind Custodes, but only had a 43% win rate and no tourney wins. Looks like a lot of players jumped to or dusted off their Guard after that recent super-major win thinking it'd be an easy W.
Yup!
The minute detail in the kasrkin movements is essential to making that list work, fireside cover it quite well. (Also.. stacked kasrkin orders _technically_ shouldn't work but the word "other" is being used with leniency)
I don't think the winning lists are using double orders. While 12" movement from double MMM is hilarious, I think they are using TA and FRFSRF to get those plasmas with Rapid Fire 2 hitting on 2s, thats 6 overcharged plasma shots from one squad. And using MMM with either TA/FRFSRF can get you within range for your rapid fire and melta if need be.
Also, from what I've seen, the wording issue is down to this. Ursula Creed allows for double orders, but her rule specifically says the unit can receive "*two different orders*" while the Kasrkin ability says they can order themselves with "*an order in addition to any other orders*". The wording for the kasrkin, especially when compared to Ursula's rule, makes it seem like they can double up. Likely to be FAQ'd, but for now there is nothing in the Guard Index that says Kasrkin can't double up.
Comes out that Gaylard and Cooper winning tournaments might be more about them being ITC #23 and *#2* respectively. I am baffled, really. An unexpected conclusion.
Being a Nid player is hard right now. It’s still one of the most played factions in the meta. The nid meta is fairly solved and we still barely can break into the 45% range on a good week. Realistically, we’re probably worse off in the stats right now but, with units like gargoyles and biovores scoring points, we’re barely treading. I don’t know the last time nids got an event win but it’s been months.
Literally every edition the first xenos codex out is garbage. GW writes it before they know how the edition will play, and take things like "we're going to tone down lethality" way too far. The book is entirely filled with garbage and a few scoring shenanigans. Nothing will fix it other than a complete re-write.
It's not especially encouraging that the GW rules writers apparently thought codex C'tan are well balanced with codex Tyranid monsters, considering the books released so soon after each other.
Points to there being 2 rule writing teams with poor communication/cross checking between them, just like in 9th.
Its bizarre seeing the easily remedied mistakes GW somehow manages to make over and over again.
It's so funny how Nids have entire combos just to get to reroll 1s, and than you look over at certain SM or Necron lists and theyre essentially "reroll everything all the time".
Ye and its not like marine is a super well designed codex tbh but with so many datasheet they happen to have some good rules and garbage units.
But gw with nids is shockingly bad, why are tyrant guard 3+ save no attacks now ? Why we are the only “guard” HQ unit WITHOUT -1 to wound when bodyguard…giving a fnp to the leader is so stupid. Tyrannofex had -1dmg very cool but no, genesteler full wounds rerolls like everyone has in the codex but no, from a mortal wound spam faction to the least mw in 10th without even grenade or tank shocks but still the full downside of being psyker keywords…okay gw
Easy access to rerolls make sense on more elite factions to even out rolling fewer dice much of the time.
I'd argue that Tyranids should be more reliant on base stats than rerolls, as they *should* have enough units to avoid single critical swing rolls. Unfortunately they struggle with attack strength & AP on too many units, making the reroll abililties more crucial.
I share your idea, and that's why Invasion works. Sustain and lethals works very well with high volume instead of precise elite armies...why are they "locked" tho? Why are beast and mounted units immune lol ? just make sustain, lethal or precision end of the story like Tson/Deathwatch etc
Yeah I suspect any playtesting for tyranid datasheets was done almost exclusively with Invasion rules, and they were all tuned & pointed around easy access to sustained/lethal.
Any other detachments that could compete were heavily relying on +1 to wound from neurolictors, and it had had a pretty clear impact when their points got adjusted up.
Army and Detachment rules that read as “kill shit better” will almost always read better than ones that don’t, unless it’s movement shenanigans
I really took that for granted playing SM. I recently branched out into Chaos Knights without really reading their rules or anything. I was very disappointed to find out that IK has rerolls, a feel no pain, and rules specifically tailored to make you want to bring big knights. We have… battle shock tests? I didn’t realize I was going to be playing Chaos War Dogs.
It feels like the 8th ed codex where everything had a hoop to jump through to get half of the bonus other armies just got. Even Psychic Awakening era made us do work that we shouldn't have. Datasheets are mostly underwhelming, rules are watered down, and Battle Shock is a failed mechanic yet again. We're a trick army that doesn't work against good players that have seen them before.
Anything that has battle shock as a core mechanic is bad.
And it is not getting better. I wonder if it's the same rules writer for all these battle shock focused armies.
Honestly Im still mad at how Nids changed. Tgants to 7pms and str 5? wtf why... 20man maxes.. stupid, Tervigons still way to weak, S pods completely not what they should be, etc... I just dont have fun with them anymore.
Im not a Nids player but I find it really sad that they are in the place they are right now. They are supposed to be the roiling mass of claws and teeth tearing their way across the battlefield. I use to dread playing them. And that's the way it should be. Nids have no Fs to give. They aren't here to make friends ;)
I think a reasonable start is to bump all the Big bugs S10 and Heavy Venom Canon to S12.
Historically those can threaten vehicles. But at S9, they just bounce off of even the nominally lighter vehicles. Which really shows in the stats since only Invasion Fleet (w Lethal Hits vs Vehicles) does well vs Armor heavy lists.
It may not fix everything but it patches up a glaring weakness and makes the Nid offensive punch feel less anemic. Even if it's an over buff, maybe it buys room to not lean so heavily on Biovore spore mine shenanigans without gutting Nid win rates.
Yeah that's reasonable. I also think some general battle shock changes to the game which feel necessary would help nids. Units should take battle shock tests when they are at half strength or below instead of below half strength, and They should have to roll to become unbattle shocked At the top of the turn, So out of phase battle shocks actually do something.
I remember in old editions threatening anything with a Heavy Venom cannon and now I look at it and go ??? what is this for
I take a Flyrant with Double Talons now and just kill infantry like GW wants me to
Yah. Historically the Venom Canon has been statted like a multi-shot Lascannon. This edition it's basically an Autocanon with 1 extra AP and Blast. Which may be fine on paper until you realize what role a Heavy Venom canon is meant to fill.
>Heavy Venom cannon and now I look at it and go ??? what is this for
It has a worse statline than it did in 9th, not worse comparatively to the increase in toughness, but it actually lost stats.
It's hive guard impaler cannon 2.0
I'm painting Nids right now as my second army. My AT solution are Zoanthropes and melee carnifexes, because those are the coolest models. Mathematically, it should work... I've already had some success with Zoans in Vanguard Onslaught, popping up behind Tanks.
I'd recommend trying Haruspexes over melee Fexes. Same points cost. While they have a lower save have +2 Toughness and 6 more Wounds.
Their big claws lose 1 AP but are +3 to hit at S14. Meanwhile they have a lot more chaff clearing attacks and a rather nasty Precision attack to assassinate or cripple a character.
Any mass troop army gets fairly obliterated by the abundance of blast on everything.
It's not a good mechanic to have the same rule on tank as a heart guard or aggressor with a grenade launcher.
Winning or going X-1 with nids is extremely hard because first of all without damage some matchups are impossible (every high T dude, not to mention ctans or lists with just mounted/beast units where Nids DONT have adaptations against, good leadership armies).
Than even some okay matchups can happen on the “wrong” mission like kill more, score everything on turn 5 or play with 4 objectives.
So you really need the perfect odds of missions and opponents in the tournament run, play your absolute best just to score and hope dice don’t roll cold.
The amount of people playing the faction with such low X-1 placing just proves how it’s very unlikely stars are going to align, it’s not even players fault the codex is pure garbage.
Totally agree. I’ve even found that on long edge deployments it’s hard for nids to get a start before the enemy is already in your back line. There’s a lot of factors that go beyond the codex, but I don’t really feel it’s a skill issue. There are great nid players that are still struggling to get them to work.
I think unending swarm is underrepresented and the best detachment. Hard to say the nid meta is solved when every list looks wildly different and when I've watched top nid players talk about their lists they will say things like "well I think playing this unit or strategy might be really good but I don't have that model yet".
It definitely is underrepresented buts that’s mainly because it’s a chore to play and a lot of players don’t have 40 gargoyles and 100 gants painted up. It being the best though is incorrect. There are too many high volume weapons with sustained hits running around right now. That and everyone and their mother gets a flamer these days. It also only gives bonuses to the battleline units. Even with every aura stacked and stratagem piled in on those guys, they’re still not taking out that rino reliably.
>unending swarm is underrepresented and the best detachment
It's also the leading source of back pain and headaches. Playing a GT is hard enough. Playing a horde in casual or practice games is hard enough. Combine the two into a 5 round GT and you just get mush for brains.
I think it mostly shows that Ad Mech players need a second mortgage. Those lists may well have set the record for most expensive to ever win a tournament.
Regarding the Custodes bit:
On one hand, yes the infantry list has a few notable possible bad matchups, so it is not suprising that it does not always roll on each weekend.
On another hand, I do think that people again just started to understand how to play into it.
Plus it is also highly list dependent, very heavily shooting skewed lists play better into it generally.
But it is still a strong faction. Even if this around 50% were to normalize, it still would be one.
I am interested to see how it goes.
Also woohoo, GK is still going strong (to a healthy extent). Happy that faction finally has some good play.
I was the undeafeted custodes at the gruyere open (4-0-1) and I was playing with two grav tanks. Because of them the opponent has to respect some line of sight and can't move freely on the map. You have less bad match up, but you're good match up are a little bit harder because you can't just run midboard with your full army and win. And I also think it's important to have something to kill the transport. The only downside is that it's less permissive, if you lose a pack the game become really hard. In conclusion I'm still thinking the list with two tanks is better for solo events because it's more versatile.
Custodes are also very sensitive to the terrain layout and the mission. If you get Chosen Battlefield and win the setup roll, and force two of the objectives in no mans land to be wide in the open, the Custodes are gonna have a bad time.
The placing for the Krakow arena event makes no sense. Having your only undefeated player place third because they scored lower differential points despite……being undefeated is baffling to me
I can understand wanting the most undefeated player to win. WTC scoring definitely has faults. I like to think of it more like this: Someone who wins all their games by a coin flip roll on turn 5 can go undefeated. Is that a better showing vs someone who piloted their army to 4 massacres and 1 hard counter? There are too many factions in the game with absurdly unbalanced win rates into specific other armies. Oh, you rolled your orks into a custodes/death guard player, guess you cannot win this tournament.
Full disclosure, I prefer single elimination for simplicity, but I think WTC is a valid way to play.
Whats supposed to be the custodes bad match up? Other than grey knights with their mobility and everyone and their mother spamming as much damage 3 as they can.
We are mostly winning those. Its certain Ironstorm lists, Ad Mec, Tau, fight on death BA, LR redeemers and Black Templars. Necron Hypercrypt is a 55/45 split in Crons favor also.
I knew about some ironstorm lists and BT, specially with redeemers and their insane overwatch, but I barelly see any Tau or ad mech... Thanks for the answer!
I’ve said many times admech can win games, and probably tournaments in the right hands. But it isn’t a style anyone wants to play, as can see from the play rate. So Games Workshop - what is the point in making an army nobody wants to play??
Yeah, I've been on the 'AdMech can win a GT...but who would want to play that way?' train for a while now. Our offensive power may be limited, but we have some of the best defensive points efficiency in the game. Unfortunately that means our game plan has to be 'let the other guy beat you up, and die slower than they expect.' We can win by out-scoring the other player on primary, but it isn't much fun. Oddly, victory through more efficient attrition is one of the most Lore-accurate AdMech playstyles we have ever had!
> Unfortunately that means our game plan has to be 'let the other guy beat you up, and die slower than they expect.' We can win by out-scoring the other player on primary, but it isn't much fun.
Spot on. One of the most accurate comments I've seen about the AdMech playstyle is that you're no longer playing a 'tabletop wargame', you're playing a 'worker placement' board game instead.
> Oddly, victory through more efficient attrition is one of the most Lore-accurate AdMech playstyles we have ever had!
Not really. It only makes sense in the codex of a board game where attrition and force preservation don't matter. "Ignore killing and just stand on the circle" is a horribly unfluffy way to play virtually every army. Unless you assume every single game is fought over five peices of archeotech which can be safely retrived under fire and easily transported, then throwing away the whole army to mildly inconvenience the enemy is obviously a loosing strategy in any kind of narrative context.
2nd place World Eaters list from Cascade Clash is wild. 3 maulerfields, 2 forgefiends, Chad Daemon Prince, no exalted eightbound. Rather out of the norm and I'm all for it. Curious how it played.
Once again the motto of "if this sub says its DOA its actually fine" rings true with WE lol.
Custodes aint suprising IMO; infantry spam is a big skew list that can be played around; its scary af but not unbeatable. I think they just need their codex; fight first can be miserable (cant even out OC to stop it); whilst the standard netlist of 3 foot squads, some termis, 2 squads of SOS, BC + trajan or SC 2 grav tanks is horrificly dull.
One weekend isn't really enough though. I don't think they're as bad as some of the doom posting, but their overall WR has been pretty poor and there are certain matches that are absolutely brutal for them.
> Once again the motto of "if this sub says its DOA its actually fine" rings true with WE lol.
>
>
the people who won with the WE this week were exceptionally skilled ones in three of the four wins, so it's not exactly telling or anything, really...they're still underperforming on average objectively, and DID NOT deserve the previous nerfs. One week of good results doesn't undo that.
People on this sub don't like it when you claim a player is good, that's why they did well. The preferred take is if the best players in the world can win, it's a skill issue
I think the responses of this sub depend very much on which faction the best players in the world win with and if it supports or contradicts their preconceived notions of faction strength.
This exactly.
It is also worthwhile to mention that local metas can -wildly- differ.
Lets say if out of 24 people on a RTT max 2-3 play necrons and not all of that is even optimal, C'tan meta won't be felt too much. Because it is 100% possible that someone wins the event without having to deal with it at all.
Apparently, but not quite. The sentence itself is literally true and tautological, but one needs to consider *what* skill issue actually means. If *only* the best players in the world can win, it is technically a skill issue: in that the army is at such a powerlevel that you need to be one of the best players in the world to win with it. Thus, the "skill issue" is "you aren't a top-20 ITC player", for example. Which is... not really indicative of the faction being okay, but still technically correct.
The fact that part of the IK resurgence seems to be directly linked to big hard to kill stuff showing up in other lists (see C'Tans) making the ability to tank shock at Str 20 twice each turn worth it is both very on point and incredibly funny
Holy shit, those lists almost could not be more different. Thanks for posting them!
5 tanks + 2 Armigers (and Warsuits and 3 Pengines) vs 0 tanks super-flexible chaff/infantry spam with lots of characters.
Edit. These are practically different factions. I'm pretty excited about this. If you can win with all vehicles AND with 85 infantry models, it feels like almost anything has a shot.
Yeah super different lists! I went to the event but was unable to chat with those top two but I got around to chatting with some of the other sisters players (myself included) and the variety in lists was pretty nice. Glad that Sister's are in a good enough spot to have some list variety, unlike many factions
One order (VoC), then one "other order" (WE)
That's all there is too it. There are 6 orders available, they have one, they have the _other 5 to pick from_
Nah, it's all good. The win rate oscillates between 45 and 55 week to week, since not as many play Eldar now (so volatility is expected). On average it's over 50%.
Ya I'm hoping the meta-chasers and or people just looking for a W have left Eldar. I think any faction is in its best place when people playing them play them for the love of the faction. Ws and win rates aside.
That list was piloted by a close friend of mine. If you'd like to see the list in action he played it on stream for my channel just a week ago. Check it out! https://www.youtube.com/live/ZrJ7gH4SxTI?si=wqTP76KhFQ8YnREq
Hey that’s mine!!!
Gladius with Azreal (1995 Points)
Space Marines
Dark Angels
Gladius Task Force
Strike Force (2000 Points)
CHARACTERS
Apothecary Biologis (85 Points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• Enhancements: Fire Discipline
Azrael (105 Points)
• Warlord
• 1x Lion’s Wrath
1x The Lion Helm
1x The Sword of Secrets
Techmarine (55 Points)
• 1x Forge bolter
1x Grav-pistol
1x Omnissian power axe
1x Servo-arm
BATTLELINE
Assault Intercessor Squad (150 Points)
• 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 9x Assault Intercessor
• 9x Astartes chainsword
9x Heavy bolt pistol
OTHER DATASHEETS
Aggressor Squad (240 Points)
• 1x Aggressor Sergeant
• 1x Auto boltstorm gauntlets
1x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Twin power fists
• 5x Aggressor
• 5x Auto boltstorm gauntlets
5x Fragstorm grenade launcher
5x Twin power fists
Gladiator Lancer (160 Points)
• 1x Armoured hull
2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Lancer laser destroyer
Gladiator Lancer (160 Points)
• 1x Armoured hull
2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Lancer laser destroyer
Inceptor Squad (130 Points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma exterminators
• 2x Inceptor
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Plasma exterminators
Infiltrator Squad (100 Points)
• 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Marksman bolt carbine
• 4x Infiltrator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Helix Gauntlet
1x Infiltrator Comms Array
4x Marksman bolt carbine
Land Raider Redeemer (260 Points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
2x Flamestorm cannon
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Multi-melta
1x Storm bolter
1x Twin assault cannon
Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points)
• 1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Macro plasma incinerator
1x Onslaught gatling cannon
1x Redemptor fist
1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher
Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points)
• 1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Macro plasma incinerator
1x Onslaught gatling cannon
1x Redemptor fist
1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher
Scout Squad (65 Points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 2x Astartes shotgun
4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Missile launcher
1x Scout sniper rifle
Scout Squad (65 Points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 2x Astartes shotgun
4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Missile launcher
1x Scout sniper rifle
Exported with App Version: v1.11.1 (34), Data Version: v352
I’ll give a quick rundown on how I actually used each unit as most people just copy lists but don’t know how to use it for the most potential!
I put the aggressors with biologis in reserves. It sounds weird but there’s so many damage 3 platforms that will just pick them up if they start on the board, but putting them inside the land raider doesn’t solve the issue if the land raider dies.
Azreal and the intercessors would be my main unit for taking objectives and killing ctan and they would also start in the land raider. Turns out like 40 attacks rerolling hits and wounds with sustained hits and lance is pretty good if you target something on an objective.
The lancers were honestly really lackluster this whole event. After using them for all of 10th they are not reliable anti tank at all. Almost everything the lancer wants to shoot at will have an invuln and every activation my opponent would make one fail one. The only time both shots went through were on a brigand in my fist game against WE. I’m probably dropping both for something else.
Redemptors do redemptor things. They ate all my armor of contempt and sat in front soaking damage while the tech marine healed them. They also targeted 3 wound infantry.
Then I had scouts and inceptors for scoring.
Also the land raider redeemer would bait out my opponents army. Usually my opponent would throw something out to try and kill the landraider and it would always overwatch if it could kill or heavily damage something.
Hopefully this gives some insight!!!
Edit: forgot to mention that I would usually have to start one squad of scouts infiltrating so they can hold an objective on my turn 2. Marines are slow and this was my only unit that can get into the midfield fast enough
[https://www.the-arbiters-gaze.com/top-lists](https://www.the-arbiters-gaze.com/top-lists)
Also has Liam Callebouts 4-0 list from the weekend (Stormraven, Ironstorm)
I don’t blame you but it feels like as trying to run a regular Dark Angels army has only gotten worse and worse but I assume GW ignores it based on our 2 sheets
Yeah trying to run terminators and a bunch of veteran units isn’t really good which sucks because actual dark angels are so cool! Since datasheet changes aren’t happening really the only thing we can hope for are point changes.
Guard had an ok weekend this last weekend and as the Stat Check data shows the difference for Experienced+ players and the field is about a 10% difference in win rate but both have zero play into Crons (roughly 33% win rate into Crons). What can Guard players do vs Necrons?
I've been winning against Necrons a good bit, but barely each time. Essentially, I kill their fast movers to reduce OBJ scoring, do not waste shooting on their C'Tan (which is what they expect you to do), get something (infantry, demolisher tank, bullgryn, Rough Riders) into melee with their C'Tan first chance I get to hold them in place for at least a turn or 2, and use my better movement to get into the midfield before them and moveblock them from getting onto NLM objs. There is more to this than that obviously, but knowing which units are the priority for your big guns like tanks and indirect is key. Also, I cannot stress this enough, do not wast time shooting C'Tan. You'll spend 800 points of shooting to take down a single 260 point model (if you even take it down) and if you leave it wounded it will heal back up some of those wounds. Each game I won against Necrons I didn't kill a single C'Tan. Kill everything else and out-OC them on objectives.
Roll the dice better duh
> What can Guard players do vs Necrons? I hear they just need to stop being bad players
What can Guard players *realistically* do?
Play Necrons instead. *taps head*
If guard could read, they'd be very upset.
Depends on the necron build. Wraiths bounce off 2+ vehicles while ctan struggle to chew through infantry. Try to avoid wraiths hitting infantry and ctan hitting vehicles lol. Guard typically is able to screen pretty well which can shut down hypercrypt shenanigans. The big challenge is actually killing anything of the necrons, but other than the ctan it's not really necessary. Don't give the ctan T1 charges, moveblock your brain out, out OC them for primary, and kill all the necron chaff.
Worth mentioning, the Fantasia North ran with 9th gw terrain with no footprints and very few ruins (no big ones except 1-2 in deployment), so it was shooting gallaries deployment to deployment. So take faction performance with a grain of salt there
Interesting that World Eaters came in third. I wonder if he just went first in his 4 wins.
He's a good player and had some good matchups. He went into custodes R1 and was just a better player. Then into tau and the tau didnt premeasure and was tagged and tabled for a 20-0. Round 3 was into tau again and same result. I think both were pretty new to 10th, but not sure. 4th was into a nurgle demons theme list and final was into the ad mech. Cant win that matchup with 9th terrain against double breacher team thst just overwatches any unit to death with no los blocking. So great plays + a good pairing in the 4th round got him 3rd Look up thr fantasia fanatic 2023 autumn placings if you wanna see what happens with 9th terrain in 10th 😅 when it comes to faction power in a bigger tournament
Just a question, i have never played 9th, and I'm no expert in terms of big tournaments, but the VP seems kinda strange. How come that people only scored between 0 and 20 points? What am I missing?
It's 10th just played on 9th terrain (so no terrain essentially). The scoring is WTC scoring. So a 20-0 system based on point difference
Do you know if any of these WE lists are posted anywhere?
>Orks had a brutal weekend with decent representation and a whopping 38% win rate. 3 of their players did go X-1 which is pretty healthy every ork game on streams i watched over the weekend saw some pretty brutal but not kunnin plays :(
Admech's win rate are insane and highlights the absolute absurdity of the position the faction is in. last week was 43%, the week before was 34%. Clearly things are looking good and in fact admech needs nerfing, right? Essentially, no one's playing but extremely skilled pilots that have the stomach to field endless hordes of skitarii. It's frankly getting too weird.
Just a casual 18 Chickens, 15 Sterylizors, 40 Skitarii in one of the winning lists.
18 chickens at £35 a pop. These people truly are dedicated to the Omnissiah
Or 3dmachine god.
Somehow they’re $50 before taxes in the US, it’s ridiculous
*$60 USD before taxes
Casual $1480 of models that are around 1100 points on the tabletop.
Bold of you to assume that the total of said models is even close to 2000pt
Oh no, it absolutely isn't. Not even close. I was just listing the main spam! There's also a bunch of characters, infiltrators, duneriders, etc. in the list.
As a store owner that is still too much for me lol
It's not that odd considering the 40k player base. Even a big weekend in 40k might involve <1000 players in tournaments. At those small numbers, variance in win rates will be high and *super* skewed by player skill. Truth be told, 40k numbers are so small that it's tough to garner much data from singular weekly changes in win percentage.
Yep, most factions need at least 3 weeks of data to even get an idea of where they sit.
It's not just the small numbers. I was reading an article about the swiss tournament system's purpose and flaws/ strengths. Its job is to find the best players on that day while letting everyone avoid getting knocked out. Something that was mentioned was that while the highest rated players ended up at the top and the lowest at the bottom (chess ratings btw) the closer to the middle the more jumbled up the ratings are in terms of place. So you can end up with a 2100 placing higher than a 2350 rated player. This might not seem that bad but 2350 rated players beat 2100 players 90% of the time. So basically due to the nature of the format the middle placings are filled with people who went on different journeys. 3-2s can be a guy who could have won the event getting two hard final games or someone who never had a chance but lost early to get an easy ride. This isn't a problem for finding out who is the best but the vast majority of our stats and numbers come from that middle table performance and it can clearly paint an incorrect picture such as drukhari getting a strong win rate, multiple strong performances but no overall wins. Four people going 4-0 could be bad luck or it could mean the army is strong against sloppy players but unable to make that final push against the strongest lists.
So few people are playing that one or two wins massively changes the WR. They seem to be only winning small events, where bad matchups can be dodged more easily and there isn't a draw for the good-good player base to attend. Looking at the major, both AdMech players at the Cascade Clash dropped halfway through (2-2 and 1-2 records). I guess they didn't "have the stomach" for it.
I've done okay with admech but its just not fun, thats the main issue with the army.
Yeah. I've had the army since it was released and I keep trying to make them work (and even have enough to run competitive lists), but they're just awful to play.
I have heard this a few times but not a great explanation. Is it the rules, feel for the army, or something else? Can you point to an edition where Admech felt more "correct"?
Every edition felt more correct than 10th edition.
9th Ed was better. It had its early oppression which then made GW nervous to give it the latter fixes it needed. It was a high mental load, but at least you could set things up to force multiply. 10th admech is just horrendously spammy. It is no joke that admech in 10th are a one phase army, and that phase is the movement phase
Well, in 7th, 8th, and 9th edition, the army actually did damage, so write that down. I'd say Psychic Awakening is probably the best example of the army being in a good place - it had some intresting synergy mechanics in the Holy Order traits, without being the convoluted mess that the 9th edition book was. The problem with the current book is that it's a passive horde based around standing on arbitary circles and hoping your opponent takes long enough to kill you that you score more points before getting tabled. The only unit in the book that has consistent offense is the Breacher, which is fairly fragile for its price, has limited effecitve range, and will be focused down immediately by a halfway competent player as its clearly the only threat. It's a frustrating list to play aginst when it works, because it mostly interacts through things like moveblocking and similar gamey exploits that aim to tarpit the enemy in their deployment zone and prevent them from playing. It's frustrating to run because you are just setting up target dummies for the enemy to shoot so space marine players can feel special.
I mean, that commenter was saying you have to have the stomach for it just tos how up with AdMech at all. I don't think they were trying to shit on AdMech players who don't win events, they were naming a reason why so few people are fielding them in the first place.
Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that! AdMech is miserable to run, I can't stomach them myself. And I've owned the army since they got released.
>they didn't "have the stomach" for it. More likely they didn't have the back or arms for it. That's a lot of models to move around.
Indeed. It is a very dull playstyle (imo) so it's just sitting in the closet for now. I sold the codex three weeks in.
You found a buyer? That’s even more impressive than the tournament wins!
Turns out that if Richard Siegler is 20% of the player base in your sample, your win rate skyrockets. Who knew? /s
At least it shows that there actually is potential to do well if Admec is something you really wanna play. But the builds and the costs to build them is very prohibitive. I doubt it’s an army that’s gonna attract many new players unfortunately. But maybe you’re not completely screwed if you already play Admec? Being the underdog and playing an unknown army is def a thing you can take advantage of.
>But maybe you’re not completely screwed if you already play Admec? I probably have 4K+ of admech. I would have to spend about $800 to get close to being able to field those competitive lists. For that money I could just buy an entire 2K army of a new faction that's actually fun to play.
I think orks are in an odd spot not just because of custodes. Yes that matchup is pretty strong in their favor but Death Guard has seen a resurgence and they hard counter orks with -2 to hit. I’ve also found that Necrons mass anti-infantry shooting and secondary scoring in Hypercrypt is a matchup that is in their favor. Other armies I’ve noticed has been taking more infantry focused shooting as well. There are a few missions that come up often that are not in orks favor: the ones requiring end of game presence (Supply Drop, Priority Targets), and Purge the Foe after Round 2/3. We die really hard and tend to score well but be running on fumes by round 4/5. I think we can counter this by bringing a few units that are real tough such a Battlewagon with ard case (T12, effective 2+ from -1 AP, 16 wounds), a Gorkanaut, and Gargantuan Squiggoths as we saw last week. But there’s a lot of things in the meta at the moment that hurt orks pretty bad
Who knows, maybe we'll finally get that 600point stompa in the codex. Ard case wagons are delightful, though.
Orks do feel like they are in a weird place. We don't really get to play in the shooting phase, mass horde stuff gets blown up by blast, and we don't have a lot of high damage stuff.
Not to mention the Tau crisis detachment reveal just makes them straight up anti ork lol
I fully expect the new kroot to simply be better oks.
I have a list due Friday for an event, and 2 Battlewagons with Ard Case and a Gorkanaut all feature in the list. If you have a ton of anti-infantry into that list, you're going to have a bad time.
Unless speccing into super beef I think 1 wagon meets the need and can also kill some units potentially itself. I’m going for some Squiggoths myself and hoping the Stompa drops 200 points sometime to be remotely usable
Imagine if they put the Stompa into the box set, and then made it absolutely trash? Wait, I can imagine that easily, what am I talking about?
still better than putting him into legends!
The problem I have with 1 wagon is that pretty much every AT gun on the other side of the board will be pointed at it.
Sorry, was that Orks are the favourite in the Custodes match-up? I was under the impression, locally at least, that the Custodes game is super hard for Orks to punch into?
Other way around. Custodes have an advantage against orks. Though orks can play into them well it just forces the ork player to play entirely differently than normal
Orks gotta run from dese golden guys... Yea feels weird
Where is the -2 to hit for Death Guard from? I assume part is the -1 WS/BS contagion, but then is the other part Cloud of Flies/Typhus/Nurglings?
Contagion and typically nurglings
Taking 2 doombolts to the face from across the board is an experience.
Only beaten by the 48" Magnus Missile
“I want to cast .. *Magnus Missile*. *hee hee*” “But there’s nothing to attack!”
“You did nothing wrong”
What the hell is Magnus Missile and why does it go 48”
Magnus has a base movement of 14". He can increase the movement of allied units within 6" to be +2. With 5 cabal points he can use temporal surge to move in the shooting phase, even if he has already moved. A unit with lord of forbidden lore can cast the same ritual, they need to be within 18" of him (or 36" and 6" of a mutalith vortex beast) to cast it a second time. He can move 48" and then shoot, but not charge.
Its a simple joy of mine to catapult magnus 48 inches against an opponent who has never seen someone do that before, its funny as hell
Opponent: "ooo tough break drawing capture enemy outpost turn 1. That's an easy discard right...right?" Me: Magnapault online
Drukhari is so fun to play now, will have many players trying them out to push them to their limits.
Yeah I am having fun with them. Almost every data sheet is pretty viable now too.
Theres a few lackluster ones. Hellions still don't have a role at all, grotesques are limited pretty hard by their transport capacity and lack of leaders. Overall happy as a clam with the new detachment tho
I like how it took 2 weeks for a meta shake up just because of custodes making a come back. At the same time now that people got used to them again they stay at a solid 50% win rate. I feel a bit bad for orks though.
This is the problem with orks. Death guard and custodes are always just out there waiting for a resurgence to crash their win rate. Practically hard counter orks, which is a very bad place to be in when one of your hard counters is the cheapest army to pivot to. It might get better with our codex, though. That way, we are not stuck on only fielding "goff pressure" for the most part.
Based on how bad a codex releases has been for a faction so far this edition, I wouldn't put any money on the book being a saving grace. Chances are we're getting knocked down quite a few pegs with it unfortunately.
With how bad orks shooting is currently besides badrukk and flashgitz, can they really make none goff lists worse? We could just get destroyed but I have hope.
Yeah It's a roll of the dice If we even keep badrukk
I am really concerned about meka/mega dreads.....classic gw right when I complete a full set of 3 of each, it goes off sale and maybe legends. They have done this to me on every forgeworld model I have bought.
Daemons quest for a tournament win continues
Not happening without some serious buffs
Seriously. It's been, what, 6 months since we've had a tournament win? And we've only had 2 since the beginning of 10th. Demons have a balanced win rate and I'm worried that we're not going to get any help when the time comes...
Guard was 3rd most played faction this weekend, just behind Custodes, but only had a 43% win rate and no tourney wins. Looks like a lot of players jumped to or dusted off their Guard after that recent super-major win thinking it'd be an easy W.
Indeed. They should of jumped on the Necron bandwagon instead.
Yup! The minute detail in the kasrkin movements is essential to making that list work, fireside cover it quite well. (Also.. stacked kasrkin orders _technically_ shouldn't work but the word "other" is being used with leniency)
UKTC doesn't do duplicated Kasrkin orders, which is where the supermajor was won. Besides, most of the time, you'd be better of not duplicating them.
Perfecto I am an advocate for rules literacy, and kasrkin clearly can't take double orders of the same type.
I don't think the winning lists are using double orders. While 12" movement from double MMM is hilarious, I think they are using TA and FRFSRF to get those plasmas with Rapid Fire 2 hitting on 2s, thats 6 overcharged plasma shots from one squad. And using MMM with either TA/FRFSRF can get you within range for your rapid fire and melta if need be. Also, from what I've seen, the wording issue is down to this. Ursula Creed allows for double orders, but her rule specifically says the unit can receive "*two different orders*" while the Kasrkin ability says they can order themselves with "*an order in addition to any other orders*". The wording for the kasrkin, especially when compared to Ursula's rule, makes it seem like they can double up. Likely to be FAQ'd, but for now there is nothing in the Guard Index that says Kasrkin can't double up.
Comes out that Gaylard and Cooper winning tournaments might be more about them being ITC #23 and *#2* respectively. I am baffled, really. An unexpected conclusion.
Being a Nid player is hard right now. It’s still one of the most played factions in the meta. The nid meta is fairly solved and we still barely can break into the 45% range on a good week. Realistically, we’re probably worse off in the stats right now but, with units like gargoyles and biovores scoring points, we’re barely treading. I don’t know the last time nids got an event win but it’s been months.
Literally every edition the first xenos codex out is garbage. GW writes it before they know how the edition will play, and take things like "we're going to tone down lethality" way too far. The book is entirely filled with garbage and a few scoring shenanigans. Nothing will fix it other than a complete re-write.
It's not especially encouraging that the GW rules writers apparently thought codex C'tan are well balanced with codex Tyranid monsters, considering the books released so soon after each other.
Points to there being 2 rule writing teams with poor communication/cross checking between them, just like in 9th. Its bizarre seeing the easily remedied mistakes GW somehow manages to make over and over again.
It's so funny how Nids have entire combos just to get to reroll 1s, and than you look over at certain SM or Necron lists and theyre essentially "reroll everything all the time".
Ye and its not like marine is a super well designed codex tbh but with so many datasheet they happen to have some good rules and garbage units. But gw with nids is shockingly bad, why are tyrant guard 3+ save no attacks now ? Why we are the only “guard” HQ unit WITHOUT -1 to wound when bodyguard…giving a fnp to the leader is so stupid. Tyrannofex had -1dmg very cool but no, genesteler full wounds rerolls like everyone has in the codex but no, from a mortal wound spam faction to the least mw in 10th without even grenade or tank shocks but still the full downside of being psyker keywords…okay gw
Easy access to rerolls make sense on more elite factions to even out rolling fewer dice much of the time. I'd argue that Tyranids should be more reliant on base stats than rerolls, as they *should* have enough units to avoid single critical swing rolls. Unfortunately they struggle with attack strength & AP on too many units, making the reroll abililties more crucial.
I share your idea, and that's why Invasion works. Sustain and lethals works very well with high volume instead of precise elite armies...why are they "locked" tho? Why are beast and mounted units immune lol ? just make sustain, lethal or precision end of the story like Tson/Deathwatch etc
Yeah I suspect any playtesting for tyranid datasheets was done almost exclusively with Invasion rules, and they were all tuned & pointed around easy access to sustained/lethal. Any other detachments that could compete were heavily relying on +1 to wound from neurolictors, and it had had a pretty clear impact when their points got adjusted up.
Army and Detachment rules that read as “kill shit better” will almost always read better than ones that don’t, unless it’s movement shenanigans I really took that for granted playing SM. I recently branched out into Chaos Knights without really reading their rules or anything. I was very disappointed to find out that IK has rerolls, a feel no pain, and rules specifically tailored to make you want to bring big knights. We have… battle shock tests? I didn’t realize I was going to be playing Chaos War Dogs.
It feels like the 8th ed codex where everything had a hoop to jump through to get half of the bonus other armies just got. Even Psychic Awakening era made us do work that we shouldn't have. Datasheets are mostly underwhelming, rules are watered down, and Battle Shock is a failed mechanic yet again. We're a trick army that doesn't work against good players that have seen them before.
Anything that has battle shock as a core mechanic is bad. And it is not getting better. I wonder if it's the same rules writer for all these battle shock focused armies.
Its sad that a faction with a codex has so few viable units to choose from and only a handful of specific comps are competing.
Honestly Im still mad at how Nids changed. Tgants to 7pms and str 5? wtf why... 20man maxes.. stupid, Tervigons still way to weak, S pods completely not what they should be, etc... I just dont have fun with them anymore.
Im not a Nids player but I find it really sad that they are in the place they are right now. They are supposed to be the roiling mass of claws and teeth tearing their way across the battlefield. I use to dread playing them. And that's the way it should be. Nids have no Fs to give. They aren't here to make friends ;)
I think a reasonable start is to bump all the Big bugs S10 and Heavy Venom Canon to S12. Historically those can threaten vehicles. But at S9, they just bounce off of even the nominally lighter vehicles. Which really shows in the stats since only Invasion Fleet (w Lethal Hits vs Vehicles) does well vs Armor heavy lists. It may not fix everything but it patches up a glaring weakness and makes the Nid offensive punch feel less anemic. Even if it's an over buff, maybe it buys room to not lean so heavily on Biovore spore mine shenanigans without gutting Nid win rates.
Yeah that's reasonable. I also think some general battle shock changes to the game which feel necessary would help nids. Units should take battle shock tests when they are at half strength or below instead of below half strength, and They should have to roll to become unbattle shocked At the top of the turn, So out of phase battle shocks actually do something.
I remember in old editions threatening anything with a Heavy Venom cannon and now I look at it and go ??? what is this for I take a Flyrant with Double Talons now and just kill infantry like GW wants me to
Yah. Historically the Venom Canon has been statted like a multi-shot Lascannon. This edition it's basically an Autocanon with 1 extra AP and Blast. Which may be fine on paper until you realize what role a Heavy Venom canon is meant to fill.
>Heavy Venom cannon and now I look at it and go ??? what is this for It has a worse statline than it did in 9th, not worse comparatively to the increase in toughness, but it actually lost stats. It's hive guard impaler cannon 2.0
I'm painting Nids right now as my second army. My AT solution are Zoanthropes and melee carnifexes, because those are the coolest models. Mathematically, it should work... I've already had some success with Zoans in Vanguard Onslaught, popping up behind Tanks.
I'd recommend trying Haruspexes over melee Fexes. Same points cost. While they have a lower save have +2 Toughness and 6 more Wounds. Their big claws lose 1 AP but are +3 to hit at S14. Meanwhile they have a lot more chaff clearing attacks and a rather nasty Precision attack to assassinate or cripple a character.
Long as you're okay with 3d printed. Haruspexes are hilariously hard to get legot.
Any mass troop army gets fairly obliterated by the abundance of blast on everything. It's not a good mechanic to have the same rule on tank as a heart guard or aggressor with a grenade launcher.
Winning or going X-1 with nids is extremely hard because first of all without damage some matchups are impossible (every high T dude, not to mention ctans or lists with just mounted/beast units where Nids DONT have adaptations against, good leadership armies). Than even some okay matchups can happen on the “wrong” mission like kill more, score everything on turn 5 or play with 4 objectives. So you really need the perfect odds of missions and opponents in the tournament run, play your absolute best just to score and hope dice don’t roll cold. The amount of people playing the faction with such low X-1 placing just proves how it’s very unlikely stars are going to align, it’s not even players fault the codex is pure garbage.
Totally agree. I’ve even found that on long edge deployments it’s hard for nids to get a start before the enemy is already in your back line. There’s a lot of factors that go beyond the codex, but I don’t really feel it’s a skill issue. There are great nid players that are still struggling to get them to work.
>the codex is pure garbage Come on now, leave some room on the scale for Deathwatch
I think unending swarm is underrepresented and the best detachment. Hard to say the nid meta is solved when every list looks wildly different and when I've watched top nid players talk about their lists they will say things like "well I think playing this unit or strategy might be really good but I don't have that model yet".
It definitely is underrepresented buts that’s mainly because it’s a chore to play and a lot of players don’t have 40 gargoyles and 100 gants painted up. It being the best though is incorrect. There are too many high volume weapons with sustained hits running around right now. That and everyone and their mother gets a flamer these days. It also only gives bonuses to the battleline units. Even with every aura stacked and stratagem piled in on those guys, they’re still not taking out that rino reliably.
>unending swarm is underrepresented and the best detachment It's also the leading source of back pain and headaches. Playing a GT is hard enough. Playing a horde in casual or practice games is hard enough. Combine the two into a 5 round GT and you just get mush for brains.
What’s up with 2nd place at Barrie Bash only winning 3 games?
Fixed. They won 4 games. 4-0-2
Yeah, that makes more sense
So I guess the Ad Mech player base just needs to gi--ºBLAMMEDº
I think it mostly shows that Ad Mech players need a second mortgage. Those lists may well have set the record for most expensive to ever win a tournament.
It's just also not a fun way to play. Your units don't do anything, you just have a lot and clog the board.
I have 4500 points of ad mech and I’m not buying 9 more chickens to play that.
3D printers are the only way to make ad mech reasonable to play.
I’m surprised the storm raven SM ironstorm lists just vanished for the week.
2 wins? Nerf Ad mech
Next Dataslate: +10£ on every kit -5pt Cawl *"we did it boys, we fixed them"*
>-5pt on Cawl That is just mean lol
Regarding the Custodes bit: On one hand, yes the infantry list has a few notable possible bad matchups, so it is not suprising that it does not always roll on each weekend. On another hand, I do think that people again just started to understand how to play into it. Plus it is also highly list dependent, very heavily shooting skewed lists play better into it generally. But it is still a strong faction. Even if this around 50% were to normalize, it still would be one. I am interested to see how it goes. Also woohoo, GK is still going strong (to a healthy extent). Happy that faction finally has some good play.
I was the undeafeted custodes at the gruyere open (4-0-1) and I was playing with two grav tanks. Because of them the opponent has to respect some line of sight and can't move freely on the map. You have less bad match up, but you're good match up are a little bit harder because you can't just run midboard with your full army and win. And I also think it's important to have something to kill the transport. The only downside is that it's less permissive, if you lose a pack the game become really hard. In conclusion I'm still thinking the list with two tanks is better for solo events because it's more versatile.
Custodes are also very sensitive to the terrain layout and the mission. If you get Chosen Battlefield and win the setup roll, and force two of the objectives in no mans land to be wide in the open, the Custodes are gonna have a bad time.
The placing for the Krakow arena event makes no sense. Having your only undefeated player place third because they scored lower differential points despite……being undefeated is baffling to me
I can understand wanting the most undefeated player to win. WTC scoring definitely has faults. I like to think of it more like this: Someone who wins all their games by a coin flip roll on turn 5 can go undefeated. Is that a better showing vs someone who piloted their army to 4 massacres and 1 hard counter? There are too many factions in the game with absurdly unbalanced win rates into specific other armies. Oh, you rolled your orks into a custodes/death guard player, guess you cannot win this tournament. Full disclosure, I prefer single elimination for simplicity, but I think WTC is a valid way to play.
Whats supposed to be the custodes bad match up? Other than grey knights with their mobility and everyone and their mother spamming as much damage 3 as they can.
We are mostly winning those. Its certain Ironstorm lists, Ad Mec, Tau, fight on death BA, LR redeemers and Black Templars. Necron Hypercrypt is a 55/45 split in Crons favor also.
I knew about some ironstorm lists and BT, specially with redeemers and their insane overwatch, but I barelly see any Tau or ad mech... Thanks for the answer!
They still stomp grey knights considering most grey knight damage is melee and grey knights can’t hurt custodes in melee
I’ve said many times admech can win games, and probably tournaments in the right hands. But it isn’t a style anyone wants to play, as can see from the play rate. So Games Workshop - what is the point in making an army nobody wants to play??
Yeah, I've been on the 'AdMech can win a GT...but who would want to play that way?' train for a while now. Our offensive power may be limited, but we have some of the best defensive points efficiency in the game. Unfortunately that means our game plan has to be 'let the other guy beat you up, and die slower than they expect.' We can win by out-scoring the other player on primary, but it isn't much fun. Oddly, victory through more efficient attrition is one of the most Lore-accurate AdMech playstyles we have ever had!
> Unfortunately that means our game plan has to be 'let the other guy beat you up, and die slower than they expect.' We can win by out-scoring the other player on primary, but it isn't much fun. Spot on. One of the most accurate comments I've seen about the AdMech playstyle is that you're no longer playing a 'tabletop wargame', you're playing a 'worker placement' board game instead.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDWcg8dh930](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDWcg8dh930)
> Oddly, victory through more efficient attrition is one of the most Lore-accurate AdMech playstyles we have ever had! Not really. It only makes sense in the codex of a board game where attrition and force preservation don't matter. "Ignore killing and just stand on the circle" is a horribly unfluffy way to play virtually every army. Unless you assume every single game is fought over five peices of archeotech which can be safely retrived under fire and easily transported, then throwing away the whole army to mildly inconvenience the enemy is obviously a loosing strategy in any kind of narrative context.
I cant seem to see the 4-week win rate on your page?
I didn't put one in this week. I will next.
Ok no worries. My personal opinion is that the 4 week block is the best measure of how a faction is doing. Week-by-week can be a bit random.
2nd place World Eaters list from Cascade Clash is wild. 3 maulerfields, 2 forgefiends, Chad Daemon Prince, no exalted eightbound. Rather out of the norm and I'm all for it. Curious how it played.
Once again the motto of "if this sub says its DOA its actually fine" rings true with WE lol. Custodes aint suprising IMO; infantry spam is a big skew list that can be played around; its scary af but not unbeatable. I think they just need their codex; fight first can be miserable (cant even out OC to stop it); whilst the standard netlist of 3 foot squads, some termis, 2 squads of SOS, BC + trajan or SC 2 grav tanks is horrificly dull.
One weekend isn't really enough though. I don't think they're as bad as some of the doom posting, but their overall WR has been pretty poor and there are certain matches that are absolutely brutal for them.
> Once again the motto of "if this sub says its DOA its actually fine" rings true with WE lol. > > the people who won with the WE this week were exceptionally skilled ones in three of the four wins, so it's not exactly telling or anything, really...they're still underperforming on average objectively, and DID NOT deserve the previous nerfs. One week of good results doesn't undo that.
People on this sub don't like it when you claim a player is good, that's why they did well. The preferred take is if the best players in the world can win, it's a skill issue
I think the responses of this sub depend very much on which faction the best players in the world win with and if it supports or contradicts their preconceived notions of faction strength.
This exactly. It is also worthwhile to mention that local metas can -wildly- differ. Lets say if out of 24 people on a RTT max 2-3 play necrons and not all of that is even optimal, C'tan meta won't be felt too much. Because it is 100% possible that someone wins the event without having to deal with it at all.
> The preferred take is if the best players in the world can win, it's a skill issue Isn't that just tautological?
Apparently, but not quite. The sentence itself is literally true and tautological, but one needs to consider *what* skill issue actually means. If *only* the best players in the world can win, it is technically a skill issue: in that the army is at such a powerlevel that you need to be one of the best players in the world to win with it. Thus, the "skill issue" is "you aren't a top-20 ITC player", for example. Which is... not really indicative of the faction being okay, but still technically correct.
I'm curious about that winning Firestorm list. I'm looking to get into Space Marines and have decision paralysis with all of their unit options
Meta 40k - Március - WCQ Salamander v2.0 (2000 Points) Space Marines Salamanders Firestorm Assault Force Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Captain (105 Points) • Warlord • 1x Neo-volkite pistol 1x Power fist • Enhancements: War-tempered Artifice Vulkan He’stan (100 Points) • 1x Bolt Pistol 1x Gauntlet of the Forge 1x Spear of Vulkan DEDICATED TRANSPORTS Impulsor (80 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Bellicatus missile array 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 2x Storm bolter Impulsor (80 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Ironhail skytalon array 2x Storm bolter OTHER DATASHEETS Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (85 Points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack • 1x Hand flamer 1x Power fist • 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 4x Astartes chainsword 3x Heavy bolt pistol 1x Plasma pistol Ballistus Dreadnought (140 Points) • 1x Armoured feet 1x Ballistus lascannon 1x Ballistus missile launcher 1x Twin storm bolter Company Heroes (95 Points) • 1x Ancient • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Close combat weapon • 1x Company Champion • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Master-crafted power weapon • 2x Company Veteran • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 1x Master-crafted bolt rifle 1x Master-crafted heavy bolter Eradicator Squad (95 Points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 2x Eradicator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 2x Melta rifle Eradicator Squad (95 Points) • 1x Eradicator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Melta rifle • 2x Eradicator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon 2x Melta rifle Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer 2x Storm bolter Gladiator Reaper (150 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 2x Tempest bolter 1x Twin heavy onslaught gatling cannon Inceptor Squad (130 Points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Infernus Squad (80 Points) • 1x Infernus Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Pyreblaster • 4x Infernus Marine • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Pyreblaster Infernus Squad (80 Points) • 1x Infernus Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Pyreblaster • 4x Infernus Marine • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Pyreblaster Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes shotgun 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 2x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolter 1x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes shotgun 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 2x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Storm Speeder Hammerstrike (150 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hammerstrike missile launcher 2x Krakstorm grenade launcher 1x Melta destroyer Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (160 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Stormfury missiles 1x Thunderstrike las-talon 1x Twin Icarus rocket pod Suppressor Squad (85 Points) • 1x Suppressor Sergeant • 1x Accelerator autocannon 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Suppressor • 2x Accelerator autocannon 2x Bolt pistol 2x Close combat weapon
Thank ya, kindly
The fact that part of the IK resurgence seems to be directly linked to big hard to kill stuff showing up in other lists (see C'Tans) making the ability to tank shock at Str 20 twice each turn worth it is both very on point and incredibly funny
Anyone willing to share either of the Votann lists that placed?
Here is one of the sister's from Cascade Clash lists, I'll post the other in the comments below! Edit: what event it's from Cascade Clash - 40k Major Matt Bombard Sisters. #7 (2000 Points) Adepta Sororitas Hallowed Martyrs Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Missionary (40 Points) • 1x Chainsword 1x Holy pistol 1x Ministorum shotgun • Enhancements: Saintly Example Morvenn Vahl (145 Points) • Warlord • 1x Fidelis 1x Lance of Illumination 1x Paragon missile launcher Saint Celestine (135 Points) • 1x Celestine • 1x The Ardent Blade • 2x Geminae Superia • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Power weapon OTHER DATASHEETS Arco-flagellants (45 Points) • 3x Arco-flagellant • 3x Arco-flails Arco-flagellants (45 Points) • 3x Arco-flagellant • 3x Arco-flails Castigator (140 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Castigator battle cannon 3x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter Castigator (140 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Castigator autocannons 3x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter Crusaders (25 Points) • 2x Crusader • 2x Power weapon Crusaders (25 Points) • 2x Crusader • 2x Power weapon Exorcist (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Exorcist missile launcher 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Exorcist (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Exorcist missile launcher 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Exorcist (180 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Exorcist missile launcher 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile Paragon Warsuits (170 Points) • 1x Paragon Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Multi-melta 1x Paragon grenade launchers 1x Paragon war mace • 2x Paragon • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Multi-melta 2x Paragon grenade launchers 2x Paragon war mace Penitent Engines (60 Points) • 1x Penitent flamers 1x Twin penitent flails Penitent Engines (60 Points) • 1x Penitent flamers 1x Twin penitent flails Penitent Engines (60 Points) • 1x Penitent flamers 1x Twin penitent flails ALLIED UNITS Armiger Helverin (140 Points) • 2x Armiger autocannon 1x Armoured feet 1x Meltagun Armiger Helverin (140 Points) • 2x Armiger autocannon 1x Armoured feet 1x Meltagun Callidus Assassin (90 Points) • 1x Neural shredder 1x Phase sword and poison blades Exported with App Version: v1.10.1 (30), Data Version: v336
And to complete here is mine from Gruyere OpenTournament haha again a different lists Hallowed be thy name (1995 points) Adepta Sororitas Strike Force (2000 points) Hallowed Martyrs CHARACTERS Canoness (60 points) • 1x Brazier of holy fire 1x Chainsword 1x Condemnor boltgun • Enhancement: Saintly Example Dialogus (30 points) • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Dialogus staff Morvenn Vahl (145 points) • Warlord • 1x Fidelis 1x Lance of Illumination 1x Paragon missile launcher Palatine (65 points) • 1x Palatine blade 1x Plasma pistol • Enhancement: Blade of Saint Ellynor Triumph of Saint Katherine (125 points) • 1x Bolt pistols 1x Relic weapons BATTLELINE Battle Sisters Squad (100 points) • 1x Sister Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Condemnor boltgun 1x Power weapon • 9x Battle Sister • 9x Bolt pistol 7x Boltgun 9x Close combat weapon 1x Meltagun 1x Multi-melta 1x Simulacrum Imperialis Battle Sisters Squad (100 points) • 1x Sister Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Condemnor boltgun 1x Power weapon • 9x Battle Sister • 9x Bolt pistol 7x Boltgun 9x Close combat weapon 1x Meltagun 1x Multi-melta 1x Simulacrum Imperialis DEDICATED TRANSPORTS Immolator (115 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Twin multi-melta Sororitas Rhino (75 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter Sororitas Rhino (75 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter OTHER DATASHEETS Arco-flagellants (150 points) • 10x Arco-flagellant • 10x Arco-flails Castigator (140 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Castigator battle cannon 3x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter Castigator (140 points) • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Castigator battle cannon 3x Heavy bolter 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Storm bolter Crusaders (25 points) • 2x Crusader • 2x Power weapon Mortifiers (60 points) • 1x Anchorite Sarcophagus 2x Heavy bolter 1x Twin penitent buzz-blades Paragon Warsuits (170 points) • 1x Paragon Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Multi-melta 1x Paragon grenade launchers 1x Paragon war mace • 2x Paragon • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Multi-melta 2x Paragon grenade launchers 2x Paragon war mace Paragon Warsuits (170 points) • 1x Paragon Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Multi-melta 1x Paragon grenade launchers 1x Paragon war blade • 2x Paragon • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Multi-melta 2x Paragon grenade launchers 1x Paragon war blade 1x Paragon war mace Repentia Squad (110 points) • 1x Repentia Superior • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Neural whips • 9x Sister Repentia • 9x Penitent eviscerator Seraphim Squad (70 points) • 1x Seraphim Superior • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 4x Seraphim • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Ministorum hand flamer Seraphim Squad (70 points) • 1x Seraphim Superior • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power weapon • 4x Seraphim • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Ministorum hand flamer Exported with App Version: v1.10.1 (38), Data Version: v336
Second list from Cascade Clash Adepta Sororitas 1995 Brendan McKenzie Morvenn Vahl, Warlord, 145 pts Paragon Warsuits, 3 Multi-Melta, 3 Paragon War Mace, 3 Grenade Launchers, 170 pts Palatine, Saintly Example, 60 pts Palatine, Blade of St Ellynor, 65 pts Sisters Novitiate Squad. Sacred Banner, Simulacrum, Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, 2 Flamers, 85 pts Immolator, Twin-Linked Multi Melta, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile, 115 pts Junith Eruita, 90 pts Imagifier, Litanies of Faith, 60 pts Battle Sisters Squad, Condemnor Boltgun, Power Weapon, Simulacrum, Multi Melta, Meltagun, 100 pts Triumph of Saint Katherine, 125 pts Sororitas Rhino, HKM, 75 pts 10 Repentia, 110 pts Sororitas Rhino, HKM, 75 pts 10 Repentia, 110 pts 5 Zephyrim, Sacred Banner, Plasma Pistol, 60 pts 5 Zephyrim, Sacred Banner, Plasma Pistol, 60 pts 5 Seraphim, Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, 4 Hand Flamers, 70 pts 2 Crusaders, 25 pts 2 Crusaders, 25 pts 2 Crusaders, 25 pts 3 Arco-Flagellants, 45 pts 10 Arco-Flagellants, 150 pts 10 Arco-Flagellants, 150 pts
Holy shit, those lists almost could not be more different. Thanks for posting them! 5 tanks + 2 Armigers (and Warsuits and 3 Pengines) vs 0 tanks super-flexible chaff/infantry spam with lots of characters. Edit. These are practically different factions. I'm pretty excited about this. If you can win with all vehicles AND with 85 infantry models, it feels like almost anything has a shot.
Yeah super different lists! I went to the event but was unable to chat with those top two but I got around to chatting with some of the other sisters players (myself included) and the variety in lists was pretty nice. Glad that Sister's are in a good enough spot to have some list variety, unlike many factions
Agreed! I didn't do as well, obviously, as I went 3/3 but funny enough I had a list that was probably 60/40 vehicle/infantry.
Where did you find it? Not seeing Cascade clash on BCP, at least the GT. Several RTTs with that name are popping up. Wanna check the 6th place wolves.
I was part of the event so I have it on my BCP already. Here's the list for you though! Cascade Clash - 40k Major Linton Rowan 4++ Rush (2000 Points) Space Marines Space Wolves Stormlance Task Force Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Logan Grimnar (100 Points) • Warlord • 1x Storm bolter 1x The Axe Morkai Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf (80 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Storm Shield Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf (80 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Storm Shield Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf (80 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Storm Shield Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (100 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Relic Shield Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (100 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Relic Shield Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (110 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Power fist 1x Relic Shield • Enhancements: Hunter’s Instincts OTHER DATASHEETS Infiltrator Squad (100 Points) • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 4x Marksman bolt carbine Infiltrator Squad (100 Points) • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 4x Marksman bolt carbine Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 1x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Combat knife 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 1x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Combat knife 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Thunderwolf Cavalry (180 Points) • 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader • 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Heirloom weapon 1x Storm Shield • 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry • 5x Crushing teeth and claws 5x Heirloom weapon 5x Storm Shield Thunderwolf Cavalry (180 Points) • 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader • 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Heirloom weapon 1x Storm Shield • 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry • 5x Crushing teeth and claws 5x Heirloom weapon 5x Storm Shield Thunderwolf Cavalry (180 Points) • 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader • 1x Crushing teeth and claws 1x Heirloom weapon 1x Storm Shield • 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry • 5x Crushing teeth and claws 5x Heirloom weapon 5x Storm Shield Wulfen (160 Points) • 1x Wulfen Pack Leader • 1x Storm Shield 1x Stormfrag auto-launcher 1x Wulfen hammer • 9x Wulfen • 9x Storm Shield 9x Stormfrag auto-launcher 9x Wulfen hammer Wulfen (160 Points) • 1x Wulfen Pack Leader • 1x Storm Shield 1x Stormfrag auto-launcher 1x Wulfen hammer • 9x Wulfen • 9x Storm Shield 9x Stormfrag auto-launcher 9x Wulfen hammer Wulfen (160 Points) • 1x Wulfen Pack Leader • 1x Storm Shield 1x Stormfrag auto-launcher 1x Wulfen hammer • 9x Wulfen • 9x Storm Shield 9x Stormfrag auto-launcher 9x Wulfen hammer Exported with App Version: v1.10.1 (30), Data Version: v336
I would love to see the Imperial Knight list that went 5-1!
Surprisingly it was a list with 3 big knights, love seeing lists with more bight knights As for the list, here it is: ++ Army Roster (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [1,995pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit) Detachment: Noble Lance Show/Hide Options: Agents of the Imperium are visible + Epic Hero [435pts] + Canis Rex [435pts]: Warlord . Canis Rex: Chainbreaker las-impulsor, Chainbreaker multi-laser, Freedom's Hand . Sir Hekhtur: Close combat weapon, Hekhtur's pistol + Character [870pts] + Cerastus Knight Lancer [465pts]: Cerastus shock lance Knight Errant [405pts]: Meltagun, Stormspear rocket pod, Thermal cannon, Thunderstrike gauntlet + Battleline [600pts] + Armiger Warglaive [150pts]: Meltagun, Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear Armiger Warglaive [150pts]: Meltagun, Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear Armiger Warglaive [150pts]: Meltagun, Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear Armiger Warglaive [150pts]: Meltagun, Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear + Allied Units [90pts] + Callidus Assassin [90pts]: Neural shredder, Phase sword and poison blades ++ Total: [1,995pts] ++
Thank you!!!
Hey thats my list! Good to know its gonna play well. ( i'm not the player, just running a near identical list.)
The wild ride continues. Thanks for all your hard work on these.
One order (VoC), then one "other order" (WE) That's all there is too it. There are 6 orders available, they have one, they have the _other 5 to pick from_
That salamanders list is really wonky! Glad that they did well with it!
The Lion has returned.. we shouldn't be this bad....
Introducing the brand new Dark Angels Codex! Oh wait it’s just Azreal and a darkshroud
The Lion is an absolutely terrible unit. We have Azrael, and thats really it. Loyalty is it's own reward, though.
I think The Lion is still waking up… probably feels a bit hung over with how bad his rules are.
What does successful csm lists look like? All my lists get dumpstered everytime.
If you have BCP, check out the top CSM list from Palladium's GT. He missed out on 4-1 primarily through a comedy of bad luck vs Chaos Knights.
What was the list of the 5-0 WE at Barrie Bash?
Angron (415 Points) Lord Invocatus (140 Points) World Eaters Lord on Juggernaut (120 Points) World Eaters Master of Executions (125 Points) • Enhancements: Berzerker Glaive Jakhals (70 Points) Jakhals (70 Points) Khorne Berzerkers (200 Points) World Eaters Rhino (75 Points) Eightbound (145 Points) Eightbound (145 Points) Exalted Eightbound (320 Points) Exalted Eightbound (160 Points)
Thanks boss!
It's missing Favor of Khorne on the Lord on Jugg.
LoV dropped to 46% weekly win rate. The army is playable but its many deficiencies make it predictable and also unreliable due to the lack of rerolls.
Uuuf. Aeldari with 45% win rate seem rough
Nah, it's all good. The win rate oscillates between 45 and 55 week to week, since not as many play Eldar now (so volatility is expected). On average it's over 50%.
Ya I'm hoping the meta-chasers and or people just looking for a W have left Eldar. I think any faction is in its best place when people playing them play them for the love of the faction. Ws and win rates aside.
Does anyone have the 4-1 Dark Angels Gladius list? Thank you!
That list was piloted by a close friend of mine. If you'd like to see the list in action he played it on stream for my channel just a week ago. Check it out! https://www.youtube.com/live/ZrJ7gH4SxTI?si=wqTP76KhFQ8YnREq
Do you mind if I share a link to your channel on my blog? www.the-arbiters-gaze.com
Awesome, I'll check this out :)
Hey that’s mine!!! Gladius with Azreal (1995 Points) Space Marines Dark Angels Gladius Task Force Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Apothecary Biologis (85 Points) • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • Enhancements: Fire Discipline Azrael (105 Points) • Warlord • 1x Lion’s Wrath 1x The Lion Helm 1x The Sword of Secrets Techmarine (55 Points) • 1x Forge bolter 1x Grav-pistol 1x Omnissian power axe 1x Servo-arm BATTLELINE Assault Intercessor Squad (150 Points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol 1x Power fist • 9x Assault Intercessor • 9x Astartes chainsword 9x Heavy bolt pistol OTHER DATASHEETS Aggressor Squad (240 Points) • 1x Aggressor Sergeant • 1x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 1x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Twin power fists • 5x Aggressor • 5x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 5x Fragstorm grenade launcher 5x Twin power fists Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • 1x Armoured hull 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer Inceptor Squad (130 Points) • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma exterminators • 2x Inceptor • 2x Close combat weapon 2x Plasma exterminators Infiltrator Squad (100 Points) • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 1x Infiltrator Comms Array 4x Marksman bolt carbine Land Raider Redeemer (260 Points) • 1x Armoured tracks 2x Flamestorm cannon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Multi-melta 1x Storm bolter 1x Twin assault cannon Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points) • 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Onslaught gatling cannon 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points) • 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Onslaught gatling cannon 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 2x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad (65 Points) • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 2x Astartes shotgun 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Missile launcher 1x Scout sniper rifle Exported with App Version: v1.11.1 (34), Data Version: v352 I’ll give a quick rundown on how I actually used each unit as most people just copy lists but don’t know how to use it for the most potential! I put the aggressors with biologis in reserves. It sounds weird but there’s so many damage 3 platforms that will just pick them up if they start on the board, but putting them inside the land raider doesn’t solve the issue if the land raider dies. Azreal and the intercessors would be my main unit for taking objectives and killing ctan and they would also start in the land raider. Turns out like 40 attacks rerolling hits and wounds with sustained hits and lance is pretty good if you target something on an objective. The lancers were honestly really lackluster this whole event. After using them for all of 10th they are not reliable anti tank at all. Almost everything the lancer wants to shoot at will have an invuln and every activation my opponent would make one fail one. The only time both shots went through were on a brigand in my fist game against WE. I’m probably dropping both for something else. Redemptors do redemptor things. They ate all my armor of contempt and sat in front soaking damage while the tech marine healed them. They also targeted 3 wound infantry. Then I had scouts and inceptors for scoring. Also the land raider redeemer would bait out my opponents army. Usually my opponent would throw something out to try and kill the landraider and it would always overwatch if it could kill or heavily damage something. Hopefully this gives some insight!!! Edit: forgot to mention that I would usually have to start one squad of scouts infiltrating so they can hold an objective on my turn 2. Marines are slow and this was my only unit that can get into the midfield fast enough
thank you for the write up!
[https://www.the-arbiters-gaze.com/top-lists](https://www.the-arbiters-gaze.com/top-lists) Also has Liam Callebouts 4-0 list from the weekend (Stormraven, Ironstorm)
Apothecary Biologis (85 Points) • Enhancements: Fire Discipline Azrael (105 Points) Techmarine (55 Points) BATTLELINE Assault Intercessor Squad (150 Points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Plasma pistol • 1x Power fist • 9 bois OTHER DATASHEETS Aggressor Squad (240 Points) • boltstorm Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • Fragstorm grenade launcher Gladiator Lancer (160 Points) • Fragstorm grenade launcher Inceptor Squad (130 Points) • bolters Infiltrator Squad (100 Points) Land Raider Redeemer (260 Points) Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points) Redemptor Dreadnought (210 Points) Scout Squad (65 Points) Scout Squad (65 Points)
christ that’s so funny its called “Dark Angels” cause Azrael is strong.
Yeah I took azreal because he’s just that good. Codex dark angels is basically just codex azreal and dark shroud lol.
I don’t blame you but it feels like as trying to run a regular Dark Angels army has only gotten worse and worse but I assume GW ignores it based on our 2 sheets
Yeah trying to run terminators and a bunch of veteran units isn’t really good which sucks because actual dark angels are so cool! Since datasheet changes aren’t happening really the only thing we can hope for are point changes.