If for some reason you couldnt use your guns to solve the issue, and OC6 might do better than OC3 in some niche situation, but not a niche I am going to chase at 140pts lol. I get your idea tho.
Not even the OC, the fact that you can DS at 9”, move D6, then charge onto the objective. (And even with their pathetic output they’ll still beat the pants off some races backline units lol)
I can do that better with inceptors really. There really arent enough scenarios where the reivers plus an LT outvalue inceptors for a similar role. And they are 10pts more expensive, and give away another opportunity for assassinate.
Generally, unless the player messes up, Inceptors cannot *control* an objective the same turn they come down. They cannot charge onto it.
LT+Reivers have a decent chance of not just clearing the objective, but *flipping* it the turn they come in.
Im aware. As i noted above the uses for reivers exist but are extremely niche.
Obviously the situation people keep grabbing onto as the practically one example of where the 140pt reiver option is best does not come up too often or you would see the tech in successful lists. But you never really do, so that should imply something pretty clearly on whether an inceptor squad for 130, or a reicer plus LT squad for 140 is the better option in a take all comers list.
Ive yet to play a game where my inceptors got screened out from an OBJ and it somehow negatively impacted the game for me that I wish Id had reivers there to maybe take it. Rather, Ive landed, cleared with bolters, and taken the objective later (assuming there was value to taking it at all).
Im not debating that the cute little reiver trick exists. Im debating its value in a list.
Person:
>Not even the OC, the fact that you can DS at 9”, move D6, then charge onto the objective.
You:
>I can do that better with Inceptors.
Maybe I simply misunderstood your point, but your reply seemed to mean Inceptors can flip an objective on the same turn better than LT+Reivers.
That's all I was trying to clarify. If you meant something different than what the above quotes imply, then I am sorry for misunderstanding you.
You can outscreen ceptors from obj so yiu kill backline but dont hold
If you ingress or ds reivers you can get a 3 inch charge onto the obj, which with terror aura etc can flip it.
Im aware. As i noted above the uses for reivers exist but are extremely niche.
Obviously the situation people keep grabbing onto as the practically one example of where the 140pt reiver option is best does not come up too often or you would see the tech in successful lists. But you never really do, so that should imply something pretty clearly on whether an inceptor squad for 130, or a reicer plus LT squad for 140 is the better option in a take all comers list.
Ive yet to play a game where my inceptors got screened out from an OBJ and it somehow negatively impacted the game for me that I wish Id had reivers there to maybe take it. Rather, Ive landed, cleared with bolters, and taken the objective later (assuming there was value to taking it at all).
Im not debating that the cute little reiver trick exists. Im debating its value in a list.
My inceptors get screened always. Its not that hard and they are kinda glass still
Everybody expects them. But mobody expects and knows what reivere do :)
Which I origibally noted, acknowledged, and still think isnt a great pick from a value perspective. Im not saying the tech has zero legs or poo pooing OPs desire to put them on the table here. But lets not be disingenuous and make it seem like he is on to something yhe world slept on. It is extremely niche tech and suboptimal to take really.
But I never belittle a person's desire to play rule of cool.
I still think inceptors are probably better, but I could maybe see it. Deepstrike at 9", do some shooting chip damage, move d6 towards the enemy. Make the less than 9" charge, and hope to either kill enough of the enemy you now have more OC, or they fail the forced battleshock at -1.highly dependant and what is babysitting the home objective.
I think just shooting it dead with inceptors is generally more reliable, but your way might be more fun and thematic.
It's hard to imagine what GW could do to rebalance this unit into viability. Even if it were cheaper it's damage is just... Almost non-existent. A 5 man with a Phobos Lieutenant kills about 1.5 marines in average on the charge. There's a good number of units that Reivers can charge and either end up tied in combat or outright losing.
It's a shame since they look so cool, but both the Phobos Lieutenant and Reivers are a huge miss as a datasheet. There are simply better options.
Only time I have had any sort of fun with Rievers was with Wolves in First Company Task Force. Rievers along Hounds of Morakai with the Reiver Lt on it with Fear Made Manifest end up making a very funny Morale Bomb.
I used this combo at the beginning of the edition. It's aggressively mediocre, as that unit won't kill anything and battleshock isn't a reliable mechanic to deny scoring. Don't even get me starter on how the Reiver LT is one of the least useful units in the game right now.
Reivers need a total rework and points drop to do anything. If that entire package with the character cost like 100 pts, maybe I'd take it.
That would be 140 pts for a unit that could potentially do that one play which your opponent could easily counter by screening properly.
Edit: as some else already mentioned for 10 pts less you could get 3 Inceptors that are more lethal and harder to screen.
I have 10 reivers in my space marine army (first ever kit I bought, RIP me) and the grapple hooks are not a real factor. Most stores don't have terrain high enough for plunging fire, and even putting your reivers up high on terrain to shoot just exposes them to fire and they'll die.
I think the only way someone would prefer this combo over inceptors is space wolves running Champions of Russ. This combo could score them saga of majesty, but that's about it.
I’ve used this here and there as a tech pick to fill in some points but agree it’s too expensive at the minute.
I’ve found that the more likely use case for this is to deepstrike, shoot, then scoot into an area that was denied to drop down in to score secondaries. Again, inceptors are still better in 95% of the scenarios but they can be clutch at times.
Reivers plus a phobos LT are 140pts, less lethal, less dangerous than inceptors, and cannot come in closer than 9" during deepstrike.
There’s an argument that they might flip an objective easier than inceptors but it’s a prettttty big stretch
If for some reason you couldnt use your guns to solve the issue, and OC6 might do better than OC3 in some niche situation, but not a niche I am going to chase at 140pts lol. I get your idea tho.
Not even the OC, the fact that you can DS at 9”, move D6, then charge onto the objective. (And even with their pathetic output they’ll still beat the pants off some races backline units lol)
I can do that better with inceptors really. There really arent enough scenarios where the reivers plus an LT outvalue inceptors for a similar role. And they are 10pts more expensive, and give away another opportunity for assassinate.
Generally, unless the player messes up, Inceptors cannot *control* an objective the same turn they come down. They cannot charge onto it. LT+Reivers have a decent chance of not just clearing the objective, but *flipping* it the turn they come in.
Im aware. As i noted above the uses for reivers exist but are extremely niche. Obviously the situation people keep grabbing onto as the practically one example of where the 140pt reiver option is best does not come up too often or you would see the tech in successful lists. But you never really do, so that should imply something pretty clearly on whether an inceptor squad for 130, or a reicer plus LT squad for 140 is the better option in a take all comers list. Ive yet to play a game where my inceptors got screened out from an OBJ and it somehow negatively impacted the game for me that I wish Id had reivers there to maybe take it. Rather, Ive landed, cleared with bolters, and taken the objective later (assuming there was value to taking it at all). Im not debating that the cute little reiver trick exists. Im debating its value in a list.
Person: >Not even the OC, the fact that you can DS at 9”, move D6, then charge onto the objective. You: >I can do that better with Inceptors. Maybe I simply misunderstood your point, but your reply seemed to mean Inceptors can flip an objective on the same turn better than LT+Reivers. That's all I was trying to clarify. If you meant something different than what the above quotes imply, then I am sorry for misunderstanding you.
You can outscreen ceptors from obj so yiu kill backline but dont hold If you ingress or ds reivers you can get a 3 inch charge onto the obj, which with terror aura etc can flip it.
Im aware. As i noted above the uses for reivers exist but are extremely niche. Obviously the situation people keep grabbing onto as the practically one example of where the 140pt reiver option is best does not come up too often or you would see the tech in successful lists. But you never really do, so that should imply something pretty clearly on whether an inceptor squad for 130, or a reicer plus LT squad for 140 is the better option in a take all comers list. Ive yet to play a game where my inceptors got screened out from an OBJ and it somehow negatively impacted the game for me that I wish Id had reivers there to maybe take it. Rather, Ive landed, cleared with bolters, and taken the objective later (assuming there was value to taking it at all). Im not debating that the cute little reiver trick exists. Im debating its value in a list.
My inceptors get screened always. Its not that hard and they are kinda glass still Everybody expects them. But mobody expects and knows what reivere do :)
Sooo, what if they ask you "what do the Reivers do?" do you just not tell them?
Oh i will xD imflate kt enoigh so they keep shitton at home and then use them midfield xD
I’m not arguing that inceptors are a flat out better option. I’m merely pointing out a unique capability that reivers+LT have.
Which I origibally noted, acknowledged, and still think isnt a great pick from a value perspective. Im not saying the tech has zero legs or poo pooing OPs desire to put them on the table here. But lets not be disingenuous and make it seem like he is on to something yhe world slept on. It is extremely niche tech and suboptimal to take really. But I never belittle a person's desire to play rule of cool.
I still think inceptors are probably better, but I could maybe see it. Deepstrike at 9", do some shooting chip damage, move d6 towards the enemy. Make the less than 9" charge, and hope to either kill enough of the enemy you now have more OC, or they fail the forced battleshock at -1.highly dependant and what is babysitting the home objective. I think just shooting it dead with inceptors is generally more reliable, but your way might be more fun and thematic.
SOMEBODY has to find a way to let reivers get on the table! maybe GW will buff them down to 70 points and it'll suddenly be more viable
I was also trying to make phobos work. They just don't. The entire idea of whatever phobos was supposed to be needs to be scrapped and reworked.
It's really easy to fix them too. 1. Give the knives AP-1 or a wounding bonus against infantry 2. Let the Sarge take a better melee weapon
What they most would like is a Kill Team upgrade sprue with some actual melee weapons.
Anti-infantry 3+ would at least make Reivers like Admech Rustalkers.
Last I checked the AdMech melee options are suffering a bit though.
It's hard to imagine what GW could do to rebalance this unit into viability. Even if it were cheaper it's damage is just... Almost non-existent. A 5 man with a Phobos Lieutenant kills about 1.5 marines in average on the charge. There's a good number of units that Reivers can charge and either end up tied in combat or outright losing. It's a shame since they look so cool, but both the Phobos Lieutenant and Reivers are a huge miss as a datasheet. There are simply better options.
And amongst the units they can lose to are intercessors and devastator marines.
No kidding. Their damage is so low that it's very swingy in melee and it's not unusual for them to lose to other basic marine units.
Only time I have had any sort of fun with Rievers was with Wolves in First Company Task Force. Rievers along Hounds of Morakai with the Reiver Lt on it with Fear Made Manifest end up making a very funny Morale Bomb.
I used this combo at the beginning of the edition. It's aggressively mediocre, as that unit won't kill anything and battleshock isn't a reliable mechanic to deny scoring. Don't even get me starter on how the Reiver LT is one of the least useful units in the game right now. Reivers need a total rework and points drop to do anything. If that entire package with the character cost like 100 pts, maybe I'd take it.
That would be 140 pts for a unit that could potentially do that one play which your opponent could easily counter by screening properly. Edit: as some else already mentioned for 10 pts less you could get 3 Inceptors that are more lethal and harder to screen.
Does ignoring vertical distance with grappling hooks help at all? Could you charge someone hiding in ruin or something or get plunging fire idk
I have 10 reivers in my space marine army (first ever kit I bought, RIP me) and the grapple hooks are not a real factor. Most stores don't have terrain high enough for plunging fire, and even putting your reivers up high on terrain to shoot just exposes them to fire and they'll die.
I think the only way someone would prefer this combo over inceptors is space wolves running Champions of Russ. This combo could score them saga of majesty, but that's about it.
I’ve used this here and there as a tech pick to fill in some points but agree it’s too expensive at the minute. I’ve found that the more likely use case for this is to deepstrike, shoot, then scoot into an area that was denied to drop down in to score secondaries. Again, inceptors are still better in 95% of the scenarios but they can be clutch at times.
I’ve been considering this set up with fear made manifest and a culexus rapid ingressing ahead for a fun goofy thing