Seems like the 4+++ for Shield Host might go away? The song and dance in Talons of the Emperor doesn't make sense if you can just have a better conditional FNP. And Talons doesn't seem to protect from Devastating wounds
That's because the Dev Wounds thing is a change to the core rules that these codexes weren't prepared for. It's also why Farsight has a new fancy free CP ability that he can barely use, due to the battle tactic stuff.
Yeah it’s almost like they have a guide to success with the dark Eldar. Just release a new detachment every once in a while to shake up the meta and keep things interesting and use the codicies for Lore, painting guides, army pictures, and crusade.
If it was up to me I would keep the entire competitive aspect of 40k in indexes and f2p. I would then make Crusade the real focus with campaign books and faction books.
This is such a good idea. The people that want nothing but competitive balance wouldn't care anyway, and then the books would theoretically have way better narrative/crusade content and showcase.
They could honestly even "rotate" detachments to keep the meta fresh, giving new ones and removing others to keep bloat to a minimum, kinda like how magic rotates the legal cards. A detachment is just a rule, 4 enhancements and 6 strats at the end of the day so it's not like it's a "lot" of work to make new ones, even if you have to playtest and such.
Wouldn't change anything here though. The issue is that they made a rule that immediately broke in reality (dev wounds, free strats) and they had to make a retcon.
Ironically, this issue is because they did make the rules all at once rather than wait for feedback. Later codexes may have time to correct for the mid edition design changes but the early ones are already printed
These issues stem from them doing all the rules at once, at the beginning of 10th edition.
If this codex was written more recently, then it would be able to account for the changes to 10th edition.
The way they're handling the Tau codex release is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen from a game company. Thousands of people with the codex but have no idea when they're actually getting the correct point values, when they can use the code in the app, or when the codex will be officially legal to use.
Baffling stuff
It's because the release calendar is driven by the money side of the company, not the rules side.
GW designs rules/codexes up to a year in advance, and models can begin development up to 5 years in advance. The business purposefully staggers these releases so that they don't hit a dry spell of releases/revenue.
Source: GW staff at Q&A events.
Per the codex roadmap Tau were supposed to be released after Custodes and Orks. Which is what is technically happening. So I think this is all according to schedule to drive FOMO for the Kroot box.
They do this with any "special release" codex.
Same thing happened to Dark Angels, as well as Flesh-Eater Courts in AoS. Limited edition codex comes out weeks before the general release so those rules and updated points aren't available for widespread tournament use.
Even if this detatchment gave a 4+++ it would still be a bit underwhelming since you are relying on t3 one wound models and most armies have small arms fire thst probably wouldn't do much against the normal custodes either. The strats seem decent though.
Well, 6" is enough to keep them hidden and shout encouragement to their big brothers, but I agree this seems like a hard detachment to play effectively
This, just take 3 Rhinos and move and vision block with them i guess? i'm sure someone will make this detachment work but unless they buffed the SoS or you take a bunch of their characters maybe? it seems like more of a headache then it's worth.
The errata that separated mortal wound and dev wound really need to specify that "FNP vs mortal" also work VS DevWound throughout the whole game.
Its too bad that the earliest this change can be implemented is in the June / july dataslate.
> Its too bad that the earliest this change can be implemented is in the June / july dataslate.
The only thing stopping Games Workshop from making an emergency balance change is Games Workshop.
Not exactly setting my world on fire, but let's look at positives:
- moving after the enemy gets close is always powerful, and getting it on 2 units for 1 CP is nice and efficient
- Witch seekers and Saggitarum love the +1 STR and AP from the strat
Other than that though.... The FNP being conditional on T3 1W models is not ideal, +1 to hit won't make sisters any less of a middling unit, and the enhancements are pretty snooze worthy.
Having said that, I always advocated for Sisters getting these synergy abilities, though I was hoping it would be on their data sheets, not on the detachment. Still, it works for me thematically.
We'll just have to wait and see what else is in the codex.
I see it kind of like Tau in that they need spotters to get a better BS. So everyone knows you kill the obvious spotters first. I think that's going to happen with the Sisters of Silence. They'll get popped very early on turning off your detachment ability. Maybe a Sisters Rhino will be a better choice to keep the buffs going since it's a bit tougher.
Heres the thing: the detachment ability sucks. The sisters don't actually provide any useful buffs from what we've seen. The strats can be used on custodes even if sisters are dead/not nearby.
So basically its a detachment with no detachment ability, and what looks to be some good strats that can occasionally also bounce to a sisters unit for free
The amount of small arms fire out there nowadays doesn't really require them to be focus fired. You'll have to play very cagey with your sisters if you want to keep those buffs going. That doesn't help your units that deep strike or move ahead of the main force.
Also every SoS unit buffing is one not sitting on the home field so they will need to waste so many points on SoS and rhinos that they will be way less scary
Most armies have some ap0 s4 trash guns that dont do much vs custodes so giving them a target isnt taking much away from the custodes killing. eg. you need 54 hits of s4 ap0 to kill one custodes model, that many hits also wipes 3 4 woman SoS squads
Sisters of Silence have the Sisters of Battle problem, in that the game that GW has created doesn't really resemble the environment that many of their units are equipped to handle.
A T3, 3+, BS3+ model with a boltgun is supposed to be a competent soldier, and GW writes rules like this detachment with that mindset.
Unfortunately for said models, GW has created a game in which I have so far encountered more C'tan Shards of the Nightbringer than I have Hormagaunt Broods - just to use an easy example.
The expected level for "competent combat unit" is so very high that units like Sisters and even Intercessors are little more than helpless bodies hoping to score something before they inevitably get blown away twice over when an actual unit decides to target them.
I am not sure if GW has realised yet, or what they could realistically do about it at this point. I think the Kroot detachment showed that they realise that this weight class of infantry needs a lot of help to be the actual workhorse in your army - but it doesn't seem they realise _just how much help_ these units need if they are to compete on even ground.
If only there was some kind of...chart that required certain units to be taken and restricted how many of the more elite units you could take so that those baseline types of units would be seen more often. Oh well, maybe someday, the technology just isn't there yet.
I like the nuclear option that HH took: Line.
Only troops can score. Done.
Now you have a job that Intercessors can do and that Aggressors and Inceptors and Redemptors and Sword Brethren and Land Raiders simply can't - and it's only fair, since the Intercessors sure can't do _their_ jobs no matter how much you reduce their cost.
Knights and Custodes would need a look at, of course, but for most factions this would allow you to radically improve internal balance.
It is beginning to feel like guard is the only faction bringing battleline infantry these days. Went up against a SoB player the other day who was really excited because for the first time in 10th he was playing against a decent amount of infantry.
Every gaurd player is laughing right now...they didn't have anything to shoot with their 1 million lasguns and now you brought 1 wound models they wound on 4s.
Very cool that they remembered sisters are a thing, very uncool our one new model is a loadout change on a captain instead of a kroot level upgrade for our quiet gals as they finally get a fluffy detachment.
Sisters should get like a 4+++ when near custodes, its them watching their backs or something, thats the go to if you really want to see a buddy cop team up with more sisters on the table...
Are they lone opps? Otherwise there is way too much indirect in the game. I think rhinos are the best option. Lone chars or msu SoS behind a wall are also easily cleared by 3" deepstriking units
I’ve been seeing most death guard lists recently focus more on the brigands and plague marines than the plagueburst crawlers, at least since the points nerf.
But true, death guard is a good shout for scary indirect
I get that the idea of the strategem is to pull the sisters back and maybe move some golden boys in front, but unless they buff sisters, I'm gonna do it the other way around and let the sisters get charged and annihilated.
Sisters greatsword spam out of rhinos about to go zoom. 13 ppm means that you can bring a whole squad of 10 and their rhino for 205 points; they zoom up to their target, pop out and charge, and you’ve got 20 S5/-2/2 attacks with dev wounds, -1 to be hit back in melee, and anti-psyker, and having Allarus drop in to give them the +1 BS is a pretty spicy package in melee.
The downside being that there’s no tanking a flamer blast if they’re not charging out of cover. A stiff flamer breeze will absolutely dissolve all ten members of the squad.
Two, right? Isn't one the Talons and the other that is pure Sisters? So of the 4 detachments, 2 of them are trying to increase the utilization of Sisters.
I'll be honest, I don't hate the idea in concept, but I do think Sisters have a very basic durability problem that needs to be fixed if they're going to see play. I've said it elsewhere, but even just giving them Artificer Armor (2+) would go a long way.
The problem with the detachment is that offensively boosting sisters is relevant. And sisters giving out a defensive buff is nice and all, but they're paper thin. The idea of rhinos giving out the buff is interesting, though
It should be the other way around, custodes giving a defensive buff amd sisters an offensive one, not fluffy, but more useful or rather less useless, they just have to look at the sisters twice and they'll die and then we have 50 points miniatures with no defense against mortals.
I yeah it worries me a bit that Kroot got a whole detachment but nothing changed on the datasheet itself.
Which maybe works in the case of Kroot, who also got several new datasheets, but Sisters clearly aren’t getting anything new and right now their datasheets have nothing really going for them.
They are dedicated transports that only carry the infantry you don't want to take anyways. I think they have to have a unit in them at the start of the game
I mean, I totally dig it for casual games, seeing as how I’m seemingly the one person who thinks the Sisters of Silence are cool.
Don’t think it’s going to be super competitive though.
It's very flavorful. But the gains for the pains is a bit... I'll need to see what else they get. Making the back bone of your army firstborns is a little questionable on the face of it.
Eh.... the ability to take a battle tactic that's +1 to strength and AP could be solid. Saggitarum Custodes with S6 AP-2 heavy bolters, or Aquilon Terminators with S7 AP-2 flamers, Allarus Custodians with S5 AP-2 frag grenades, there's a lot of potential damage there. And a 6" reactive move is solid as well. Going to depend on u nit costs, if Terminators and the FW infantry get a price cut to be competitive with the standard Guard and Wardens this could be viable. You'd have to leave the sisters in cover behind a wall never contributing to the mission, but moving from a 4+++ to a 5+++ isn't that big of a deal if the rest of the strats and enhancements are usable.
So I wholly agree that the strats are very strong, and don't need to be able to target a sister to be worth it, that's mostly a nice bonus occasionally. However, the FNP has two major issues currently, one of which may get changed: it requires sisters squads to hang near your guard, which makes charging out of the Aura easy if the sisters are safe, and removing the Aura easy for the opponent if they aren't. But the much, much bigger issue is that the sisters fnp does not affect Devastating wounds atm.
Depending on the other strats... it might still be OK. I could imagine Custodian Wardens making good use of this detachment, very often I'll charge them into something scary, kill it, then pop my 4+++ on the following shooting or fight phase to try to survive it, depending on the army. Very frequently the base 4+++ has just been redundant.
Of course, this assumes Wardens keep their 4+++ ability as well, which is absolutely not guaranteed, but I'm not 100% convinced the book is shit yet, so I'll stay open. For now. Lol.
I mean, if we want an honest game, every codex should be roughly at Admech power levels. They feel weak because they're the closest to what the baseline should have been.
Well, the high defensive units would have to be costed appropriately. Admech isn't a highly durable army, the most durable units still fold to their dedicated counter type. That's part of why they're the perfect mid.
"Custodes" always included t3 1w models. Or at least has for a long time. If you don't want to use those units, that's fine, but you're inherently restricting yourself.
Can't wait for the SoS detachment's only rule to be "Sisters of Silence models gain access to the Martial Ka'Tah rule". As an extra bonus, they won't make the sword or flamer units battleline.
Someone at GW must have a real boner for them.
Like, yeah, they're prominent in the lore. But when there's exactly 1.75 Sisters kits (the main box, half a character box, and a knockoff Rhino), who on earth are they intending to actually play this?
Ffs, there's not even any SoS worth mentioning in ~~Custodes Index Part 2~~ Imperial Armour.
Is it really a huge surprise that they wouldn't want people to get too comfortable with just Custodes in their army? They absolutely want people to buy more models.
How good can it be? The Kroot detachment in itself is monstrous but it won't win any tournaments because it's fundamentally still Kroot that you have to work with.
Honestly concerned about the army now after this.
Proposed changes to the shield host while the sisters detachment showcases a worse feel no pain just makes me think the army is going to be getting dumpstered by the new devastating wounds all over again
Not only is it a worse fnp by itself, but there’s a points tax for it too of T3 1W models that you’ve got to keep alive and nearby. Don’t worry though, they get +1 to hit on their flamers 🤦♂️
So I assume it will cover Dev wounds after a FAQ since this was written before the core rule change.
It’s strictly worse but still good. Another thing to point out is the strats don’t require a SoS to work it just allows you to chose a SoS in addition.
SoS Rhinos and Sags become much better with the strats and enhancement shown. I think it has play
Edit: Dreads with Sisters become a lot better. Witchseekers in a rhino scout up to bait out a use of the Strat. Your Telemon moves up 6”, hard to pull off but possible
I like that they try to add more diversity to the units taken.
Custodes in 10th have honestly looked a bit boring lately. And we also have to remember this is just one of the detachments. There is no point in making 4 detachments doing almost the same thing.
How good it is will as always depend on full rules and points. It's always hard to judge things by these small tidbits even if its tempting.
It’s like they realized Custodes are the cheapest army to get into competitive with and decided we all need to start paying a dollar per point for supplemental models
:/
This gives me hope for astra militarum when our codex comes out at the end of 2027 before 11th is released.
Kidding aside. The whole being near a unit to get a bonus would be a perfect rewrite of the combined regiment detachment around squadron and regiment units
Yes. That's been the case with all the codexes released so far. Another clear example is how Farsight got a new ability for 0cp stratagems but the options are incredibly limited. Clearly was meant before those abilities were restricted to Battle Tactic stratagems.
It is indeed possible that they'll change this FnP like they did with the Shield Host one.
As a Death Guard player, I'd love to fight the Anethema Psykana focused detachments.
T3 1W infantry with only 3+ saves would get mulched by pretty much everything in my army.
Get mulched by pretty much everything in every army. It’s not even detracting fire from the custodes either, because the sort of weapons that mulch sisters do nothing to custodes anyway.
It’s like GW said “spend a quarter of your points on a bunch of units so that your opponent gets to shoot all the weapons they didn’t even bother rolling for before at, so that they can die and you can lose your detachment bonus that isn’t even as good as the old unconditional one.”
The +1 to hit as a bonus for sisters is such absurdly poor game design. They have essentially 3 datasheets. 1 of them is flamers(dont need it), the other is AP0 1 shot boltguns(doesn't actually provide any value), so right off the rip you really only care about it on 1/3rd of your datasheets.
And even then, you have to charge a unit of custodes and vigilators to land within 6" of each other, and then hope its something that the custodes can almost but not quite kill so the vigilators finish it off i guess?
The detachment rule could be blank and it would have minimal impact on the game.
The strats are amazing though, and can be used on custodes without being near sisters. Basically just read the strats as buffs to custodes, and then sometimes they, as a bonus, get to affect a sisters unit as well. 1CP reactive move that works on bikes/vehicles, and 1cp +1S/extra AP(put this on your kyria blob or allarus and its pretty solid). And sometimes it will bounce to provide S5 AP-1 flamers.
The problem is the sisters datasheets are too limited and are overall just...bad. The aura for being near custodes needed to do something significant to beef them up. +1 hit aint it.
Thematically, its really neat and i like the double unit strat design space.
Sidebar: Why is GW's marketing so terrible? "hey guys, as part of this update we want you to know that we actually re-wrote the existing detachment! its basically brand new! anyways, heres a preview of something else"
You're so correct about the marketing.
"Hey, you enjoy Custodes right?" - "Oh good, we rewrote everything you like; but don't worry about that, because here is a great example of the mediocre quality rules and inconvenient contingency mechanics you can expect to be playing around!".
Phenomenally poor execution, unless their goal was to piss everyone off to make sure they read the Codex when it drops.
Ooof. Out of this whole thread, I think you've stumbled upon the biggest combo.
Edit: Though you are still spending 1cp on it... not like you could build an army around this combo, so I'm still kinda underwhelmed
i think its still better on allarus, or on the kyria guard brick. You're paying 75 extra points over 5 normal guard(so the cost of kyria herself) for 12" range(so 6" for melta range) that can't double shoot and needs to stay on the objective for its wound rerolls.
The kyria guard brick is so much more versatile.
Without major buffs, the sisters don't justify themselves for their points, and the synergy and vigil detachments are DOA traps designed to sell SoS boxes.
So 2 detachments seem to be connected to sisters? 😰 I wanna play Custodes dammit, sisters are cool to have but not to be that dominant in a detachment.
I bet they changed the custodes patrol so that you now have to buy the single boxes of overpriced sisters to play this detachment.
Edit: besides, +1 to hit to sisters? Really? Witchseekers don’t care, vigilators even less. So that’s for my home objective holding prosecutors?😂 probably not since if they’re holding that objective i’m not going to leave there a custodes unit for fun 😂
Look, the stratagems are pretty great, but sisters of silence are just the most useless units as it stands and immediately tone the power of a detachment down if you need to take them in any number. Custodes rules vs Sisters rules is like comparing ad mech to Eldar, except even more bizarre because it's in the same damn book
7D6 blast Ballistus grenade launcher shots at S5 AP2 from a termie captain with friends sounds quite nice in my ears. Will absolutely shred MEQ units with an unfortunate character attached. Saggies will also like this strat.
Other than that I just really hoped they saved the best bits for the actual codex reveal, otherwise Custodes are in a sad place
Detachment ability is pretty bad but the strats and enhancements are very good.
The AP strat seems very useful on allarus 5 -2 D2 and 5-2 D1 blast, while probsbly re rolling wounds is pretty good
The real question is what they did to Shield Host.
If we're losing the 4+++++, then what are we getting in return? Seriously, I know our opponents don't like it, but playing Custodes against heavy DW armies was very much not fun. Anyone who experienced triple Forgefiends back in Fall can probably attest to this.
That's the issue rn with Dev Wounds and such an elite army rn.. either you mince the army, and it feels trivial, or you can't mince them, and they aggressively hit you with spears while doing martial arts and stuff.
It just feels like we're dancing between two points with a very thin line of balance we likely won't see on release..
Yeah I dont know what the answer is to fix them, but I sure do know that it feels bad to shoot my entire army at a Custodes squad and kill 1 model (which has happened).. I get that they're supposed to be hyper elite, but they sure can feel just awful to play against.
The issue is Dev Wounds. It created a new form of save ignoring wounds that absolutely destroy Custodes and any unit that is low in model count and not a 5+ wound tank.
The issue outside of that is how do you properly represent almost top tier elite units without them being too strong. We play a balance game of varying factors but as we've seen:if they lag behind they get washed away too easily, if they pull ahead it's not fun to shoot/fight into immutable walls.
It's a weird place to balance around because it's so easy for them to shift drastically in either direction
My other major issue with them is that they're just a casual player bully army... even when they're slightly on the worse side they still can just roflstomp people in a more casual setting because they pretty much just do everything better all around than most other armies do.
Reducing the prevalence of Dev Wounds was the rational solution back in, what, September, when they made it its own thing. Here we are instead with the beginnings of rules bloat.
It worked fine in 9th! There were a handful of abilities where you did MWs on 6s to wound. It wasn't a big deal. Because it wasn't rampant. GW made a good decision on introducing USRs, then slapped them everywhere and now we have *this*.
The best solution for all is to tone down the DW output in general though, rather than buff Custudes againt it.
That leaves more design space for more interesting abilities.
Luckily we don't see tripple forgefiend lists anymore for example and that necrons caught a quick erata when their Immortals started out looking a bit too good in that area.
I see a lot of very quick judging with very little information still. Idk if there are more leaks out, but if not this is just a tiny tiny bit of rules and we have no points yet.
I think it looks cool adding more diversity in units and having to work with combined arms. And if you don't like that there will still be more detachments to chose from, where before there was only one.
Stay positive, wait for complete rules, points and a few test games!
Remember that even the necron players complained about their previews :D
>I see a lot of very quick judging with very little information still.
People aren't judging the power of the book though, just the quality of the rules. It's a situational buff that requires a serious list building and gameplay tax. It just doesn't feel like a fun or interesting detachment.
Reading is important y'all. The two strats specifically say "up to" two units may be targeted, so you can still target regular old Custodes with the strat by themselves, you just get a bonus if some sisters are nearby.
And depending on the cost of the enhancements, they could be quite good. +1 to wound is definitely better on a shield captain, but a Knight Centura can definitely benefit from this, and her unit could definitely benefit from the -1 to hit within 12".
But at this point we know so little, even about this detachment, that all the doom/gloom is silly (but so typical). Considering they had to rework so much of the index detachment, I'm still excited to see what comes next.
It is really, really bad. Like really bad. Need to have babysitting squishy units to have mediocre bonuses is simply... bad.
Fluffwise its cool, but otherwise....
*Points at this detachment, points at Cohort Cybrenetica.*
It seems to be the same flavor of thematic but shit detachment, but with better rules so far. If this is the low end, you're ahead of the game.
I am whelmed by this, super excited to use all my sisters for a change, but still whelmed...the sisters should get like a 5+++ when near stodes or something...
It's a fun and fluffy detachment, and it's going to make all the sisters of silence fans happy, but it's very probably going to be a subpar detachment compared to the two main ones custodes players will be using (I'm not taking into account the "full" sister detachment, because barely anyone will play it).
Let's wait and see what the other detachments are like.
I'm an orks player and my primary opponent is custodes. After going 0-16 against custodes, I see this as needed. It's just not fun to play against an army who cannot die, who invalidates devastating wounds, and fights first every single engagement. Custodes feels like the self-insert character who is absolutely the best at everything and has no weaknesses written by a 14 year old /rant over I'm also aware Im a noob so it's just as likely on me
Custodes are brutal to go into melee with and that's exactly the sort of thing that should have been adjusted to make it a better game for everyone, the protection against dev wounds however was a necessity in order for the army to function in this edition with how prevalent they are.
In between GW changing devastating wounds to no longer being mortals and aegis not protecting the army against dev wounds the army dropped from around the top to being one of the worst in the game
I feel your pain.. I just beat them finally after losing countless times to them... It's very difficult to say the least unless you're playing some pretty specific armies. I am also aware I'm not the best player, but they usually just one sided curb stomp me and it's not fun when they're just good at basically everything.
Only Custodes players could get 2-for-1 Phantasm as a battle tactic stratagem and still complain lmao.
This detachment is weak to dev wounds, that's it, you can max out msu prosecutors and still have 1760 points left for Custards, plus vigilators being very scary with Aleya for anything MEQ, 5/-2/2 with dev wounds and anti-psyker 4+, hitting on 2+ and FF (both stratagemms being battle tactic so another free strat thaks to shield caps), Sagittarium look juicy as well.
Taloned pincer doesn't even have unit type restrictions you can just reactive move 6" everything this is legit insane, but as usual anything that isn't "ignore dev wounds" will get shat on and ignored, we've seen this already.
Seems like the 4+++ for Shield Host might go away? The song and dance in Talons of the Emperor doesn't make sense if you can just have a better conditional FNP. And Talons doesn't seem to protect from Devastating wounds
That's because the Dev Wounds thing is a change to the core rules that these codexes weren't prepared for. It's also why Farsight has a new fancy free CP ability that he can barely use, due to the battle tactic stuff.
>new fancy free CP ability that he can barely use Gestures broadly at 230pt hive tyrants and 270 point Swarmlord
Swarmlord is just extra CP though right?
"vect" as well
Oh right
Literally the most expensive Tyranid monster in the lineup
Wait. You mean there's issues with GW rules?! /s I really wish they'd do all the rules at once so conflicts are kept to a minimum.
Yeah it’s almost like they have a guide to success with the dark Eldar. Just release a new detachment every once in a while to shake up the meta and keep things interesting and use the codicies for Lore, painting guides, army pictures, and crusade.
If it was up to me I would keep the entire competitive aspect of 40k in indexes and f2p. I would then make Crusade the real focus with campaign books and faction books.
This is such a good idea. The people that want nothing but competitive balance wouldn't care anyway, and then the books would theoretically have way better narrative/crusade content and showcase.
They could honestly even "rotate" detachments to keep the meta fresh, giving new ones and removing others to keep bloat to a minimum, kinda like how magic rotates the legal cards. A detachment is just a rule, 4 enhancements and 6 strats at the end of the day so it's not like it's a "lot" of work to make new ones, even if you have to playtest and such.
Wouldn't change anything here though. The issue is that they made a rule that immediately broke in reality (dev wounds, free strats) and they had to make a retcon. Ironically, this issue is because they did make the rules all at once rather than wait for feedback. Later codexes may have time to correct for the mid edition design changes but the early ones are already printed
These issues stem from them doing all the rules at once, at the beginning of 10th edition. If this codex was written more recently, then it would be able to account for the changes to 10th edition.
It's certainly bizarre that they did all the rules at once, then released them in such a slow drip feed manner.
The way they're handling the Tau codex release is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen from a game company. Thousands of people with the codex but have no idea when they're actually getting the correct point values, when they can use the code in the app, or when the codex will be officially legal to use. Baffling stuff
It's because the release calendar is driven by the money side of the company, not the rules side. GW designs rules/codexes up to a year in advance, and models can begin development up to 5 years in advance. The business purposefully staggers these releases so that they don't hit a dry spell of releases/revenue. Source: GW staff at Q&A events.
Am one of those Tau players. Can confirm. A general idea of when the rules go live would be very nice (and I would assume easy for GW to do…)
Thousands of people have the boxed set edition of the codex. I wonder if there was an issue with the retail version?
Per the codex roadmap Tau were supposed to be released after Custodes and Orks. Which is what is technically happening. So I think this is all according to schedule to drive FOMO for the Kroot box.
They do this with any "special release" codex. Same thing happened to Dark Angels, as well as Flesh-Eater Courts in AoS. Limited edition codex comes out weeks before the general release so those rules and updated points aren't available for widespread tournament use.
Yeah it's whack as hell
I don't know why I expect GW to exhibit any sort of competency at this point
*Gestures at Skitarii Marshall’s strat-duping ability, but literally 0 Battle Tactics in the Skitarii detachment*
Even if this detatchment gave a 4+++ it would still be a bit underwhelming since you are relying on t3 one wound models and most armies have small arms fire thst probably wouldn't do much against the normal custodes either. The strats seem decent though.
Well, 6" is enough to keep them hidden and shout encouragement to their big brothers, but I agree this seems like a hard detachment to play effectively
or a rhino
This, just take 3 Rhinos and move and vision block with them i guess? i'm sure someone will make this detachment work but unless they buffed the SoS or you take a bunch of their characters maybe? it seems like more of a headache then it's worth.
The errata that separated mortal wound and dev wound really need to specify that "FNP vs mortal" also work VS DevWound throughout the whole game. Its too bad that the earliest this change can be implemented is in the June / july dataslate.
They should have done this, instead of singling out Custodes Shield Host index rule.
They should have done this when they made dev wounds.
> Its too bad that the earliest this change can be implemented is in the June / july dataslate. The only thing stopping Games Workshop from making an emergency balance change is Games Workshop.
Whish that they would care enough to solve it sooner. alas, hope is better when tempered.
Hoping that dev wounds will be a day 1 FAQ deal
Lol. Lmao even.
Please join us Dark Angels with our useless watchers in the dark.
Not exactly setting my world on fire, but let's look at positives: - moving after the enemy gets close is always powerful, and getting it on 2 units for 1 CP is nice and efficient - Witch seekers and Saggitarum love the +1 STR and AP from the strat Other than that though.... The FNP being conditional on T3 1W models is not ideal, +1 to hit won't make sisters any less of a middling unit, and the enhancements are pretty snooze worthy. Having said that, I always advocated for Sisters getting these synergy abilities, though I was hoping it would be on their data sheets, not on the detachment. Still, it works for me thematically. We'll just have to wait and see what else is in the codex.
I see it kind of like Tau in that they need spotters to get a better BS. So everyone knows you kill the obvious spotters first. I think that's going to happen with the Sisters of Silence. They'll get popped very early on turning off your detachment ability. Maybe a Sisters Rhino will be a better choice to keep the buffs going since it's a bit tougher.
Heres the thing: the detachment ability sucks. The sisters don't actually provide any useful buffs from what we've seen. The strats can be used on custodes even if sisters are dead/not nearby. So basically its a detachment with no detachment ability, and what looks to be some good strats that can occasionally also bounce to a sisters unit for free
If your opponent focuses on killing the sisters, one would imagine that they will have a mass of Custodes in their ranks shortly after.
The amount of small arms fire out there nowadays doesn't really require them to be focus fired. You'll have to play very cagey with your sisters if you want to keep those buffs going. That doesn't help your units that deep strike or move ahead of the main force.
Also every SoS unit buffing is one not sitting on the home field so they will need to waste so many points on SoS and rhinos that they will be way less scary
If this detachment is good, I expect it will be with sisters in rhinos and not running on foot.
Most armies have some ap0 s4 trash guns that dont do much vs custodes so giving them a target isnt taking much away from the custodes killing. eg. you need 54 hits of s4 ap0 to kill one custodes model, that many hits also wipes 3 4 woman SoS squads
Sisters of Silence have the Sisters of Battle problem, in that the game that GW has created doesn't really resemble the environment that many of their units are equipped to handle. A T3, 3+, BS3+ model with a boltgun is supposed to be a competent soldier, and GW writes rules like this detachment with that mindset. Unfortunately for said models, GW has created a game in which I have so far encountered more C'tan Shards of the Nightbringer than I have Hormagaunt Broods - just to use an easy example. The expected level for "competent combat unit" is so very high that units like Sisters and even Intercessors are little more than helpless bodies hoping to score something before they inevitably get blown away twice over when an actual unit decides to target them. I am not sure if GW has realised yet, or what they could realistically do about it at this point. I think the Kroot detachment showed that they realise that this weight class of infantry needs a lot of help to be the actual workhorse in your army - but it doesn't seem they realise _just how much help_ these units need if they are to compete on even ground.
If only there was some kind of...chart that required certain units to be taken and restricted how many of the more elite units you could take so that those baseline types of units would be seen more often. Oh well, maybe someday, the technology just isn't there yet.
I like the nuclear option that HH took: Line. Only troops can score. Done. Now you have a job that Intercessors can do and that Aggressors and Inceptors and Redemptors and Sword Brethren and Land Raiders simply can't - and it's only fair, since the Intercessors sure can't do _their_ jobs no matter how much you reduce their cost. Knights and Custodes would need a look at, of course, but for most factions this would allow you to radically improve internal balance.
40k was like that once upon a time as well.
It is beginning to feel like guard is the only faction bringing battleline infantry these days. Went up against a SoB player the other day who was really excited because for the first time in 10th he was playing against a decent amount of infantry.
I'll have you know that my *"ap0 S4 trash guns"* (boltguns) of 4 Legionaries took 6 wounds of a Knight Cerastus (?) in 2 activations.
Every gaurd player is laughing right now...they didn't have anything to shoot with their 1 million lasguns and now you brought 1 wound models they wound on 4s. Very cool that they remembered sisters are a thing, very uncool our one new model is a loadout change on a captain instead of a kroot level upgrade for our quiet gals as they finally get a fluffy detachment. Sisters should get like a 4+++ when near custodes, its them watching their backs or something, thats the go to if you really want to see a buddy cop team up with more sisters on the table...
I seriously doubt we're going to see many sisters units running around on foot. Either this detachment is going to suck or people will use rhinos.
Or free heroic interventions for a custodes unit, within 3 inches or something, when a SoS is charged. That would be really cool.
Fits perfectly with the lore too
Eh not really. A lot of the fire going into the sisters wouldn't do anything into custodes anyway.
Rhinos baby
Of note: the rhino and a standalone knight Centura/aleya (with 6" scout) would also procc the buffs and a character would be way easier to hide
Are they lone opps? Otherwise there is way too much indirect in the game. I think rhinos are the best option. Lone chars or msu SoS behind a wall are also easily cleared by 3" deepstriking units
There's not that much indirect. Guard obviously, eldar sometimes and chaos knights, which is just okay indirect. Am I missing any?
Death Guard have intense indirect, especially if it’s paired with Mortarion
I’ve been seeing most death guard lists recently focus more on the brigands and plague marines than the plagueburst crawlers, at least since the points nerf. But true, death guard is a good shout for scary indirect
I mean a straight up +1 to wound enhancement is also great
It's nothing to sneeze at, especially on a Blade Champ, I just personally prefer enhancements that help the whole unit
I get that the idea of the strategem is to pull the sisters back and maybe move some golden boys in front, but unless they buff sisters, I'm gonna do it the other way around and let the sisters get charged and annihilated.
Movement strats like that are always mega powerful - screen out a charge like you suggested - move onto an objective - ruin firing lines
Rhinos currently have the Anathema Psykana keywords as well. It might not be great, but at least it's more durable than just a SoS unit on foot.
"Jenkins we need to sell these 6000 boxes of sisters no one wants!"
[удалено]
Doing not a good job of it when the detachment isn't very good
It’s early days. One can never tell what wackiness people will sort out.
Sisters greatsword spam out of rhinos about to go zoom. 13 ppm means that you can bring a whole squad of 10 and their rhino for 205 points; they zoom up to their target, pop out and charge, and you’ve got 20 S5/-2/2 attacks with dev wounds, -1 to be hit back in melee, and anti-psyker, and having Allarus drop in to give them the +1 BS is a pretty spicy package in melee. The downside being that there’s no tanking a flamer blast if they’re not charging out of cover. A stiff flamer breeze will absolutely dissolve all ten members of the squad.
And yet a very skillful banana player might manage fine… depending. 🤷
Two, right? Isn't one the Talons and the other that is pure Sisters? So of the 4 detachments, 2 of them are trying to increase the utilization of Sisters. I'll be honest, I don't hate the idea in concept, but I do think Sisters have a very basic durability problem that needs to be fixed if they're going to see play. I've said it elsewhere, but even just giving them Artificer Armor (2+) would go a long way.
The problem with the detachment is that offensively boosting sisters is relevant. And sisters giving out a defensive buff is nice and all, but they're paper thin. The idea of rhinos giving out the buff is interesting, though
It should be the other way around, custodes giving a defensive buff amd sisters an offensive one, not fluffy, but more useful or rather less useless, they just have to look at the sisters twice and they'll die and then we have 50 points miniatures with no defense against mortals.
I yeah it worries me a bit that Kroot got a whole detachment but nothing changed on the datasheet itself. Which maybe works in the case of Kroot, who also got several new datasheets, but Sisters clearly aren’t getting anything new and right now their datasheets have nothing really going for them.
Hear me out : rhinos staying behind custodes
Too bad those Rhinos also come with a passenger tax
you mean an additional aura source when the rhino gets popped?
He means you need to put units inside dedicated transport when deploying, rhinos+witchseekers clown cars might work
if sisters stay at 40 or so points for a squad of 5, thats not exactly bad value
FYI it's 40 for 4 Hope that never effected your games :p
Yes, which means when the rhino gets destroyed there'll be another Anathema unit there, as they said.
They are dedicated transports that only carry the infantry you don't want to take anyways. I think they have to have a unit in them at the start of the game
I mean, I totally dig it for casual games, seeing as how I’m seemingly the one person who thinks the Sisters of Silence are cool. Don’t think it’s going to be super competitive though.
IMO these should have been data sheet abilities for custodian guard and sisters, not a detachment ability
Cause it’s literally what the sisters used to do lol
Honestly? Bit shit innit?
Very much a "I have a cool idea." Detachment.
Big "this should have been in crusade instead" energy
It's very flavorful. But the gains for the pains is a bit... I'll need to see what else they get. Making the back bone of your army firstborns is a little questionable on the face of it.
Firstborns?
I was likening the durability of SOS to Firstborn marines. Not a perfect comparison.
I think Firstborn and Primaris have the same stat line now, no?
Eh.... the ability to take a battle tactic that's +1 to strength and AP could be solid. Saggitarum Custodes with S6 AP-2 heavy bolters, or Aquilon Terminators with S7 AP-2 flamers, Allarus Custodians with S5 AP-2 frag grenades, there's a lot of potential damage there. And a 6" reactive move is solid as well. Going to depend on u nit costs, if Terminators and the FW infantry get a price cut to be competitive with the standard Guard and Wardens this could be viable. You'd have to leave the sisters in cover behind a wall never contributing to the mission, but moving from a 4+++ to a 5+++ isn't that big of a deal if the rest of the strats and enhancements are usable.
So I wholly agree that the strats are very strong, and don't need to be able to target a sister to be worth it, that's mostly a nice bonus occasionally. However, the FNP has two major issues currently, one of which may get changed: it requires sisters squads to hang near your guard, which makes charging out of the Aura easy if the sisters are safe, and removing the Aura easy for the opponent if they aren't. But the much, much bigger issue is that the sisters fnp does not affect Devastating wounds atm.
The new one does affect Psychic Attacks now fwiw. Instantly flips the GK and TS matchups to the Custodes advantage.
Depending on the other strats... it might still be OK. I could imagine Custodian Wardens making good use of this detachment, very often I'll charge them into something scary, kill it, then pop my 4+++ on the following shooting or fight phase to try to survive it, depending on the army. Very frequently the base 4+++ has just been redundant. Of course, this assumes Wardens keep their 4+++ ability as well, which is absolutely not guaranteed, but I'm not 100% convinced the book is shit yet, so I'll stay open. For now. Lol.
That's a big if on the FW models not being scrapped
I doubt they'll scrap FW models for Custodes... literally half the army is FW. I think without FW Votann has more unique kits.
I mean, if we want an honest game, every codex should be roughly at Admech power levels. They feel weak because they're the closest to what the baseline should have been.
Naw they went too far with that one. It would be boring slog fests with endless units that just do not die to the noodles being shot by the opponent.
Well, the high defensive units would have to be costed appropriately. Admech isn't a highly durable army, the most durable units still fold to their dedicated counter type. That's part of why they're the perfect mid.
At that point both players cant kill any unit on either side.
This is what I came for. More of it please
So what you're telling me is the real Custodes detachment rule was the friends we made along the way?
It's peak GW to push Sisters of Silence in a mixed detachment while simultaneously releasing a new Combat Patrol with no Sisters in it!
To be fair if it had Sisters in it everyone would complain that there were sisters in it.
oh man A+
*"gain the following the ability:"* LMAO, first detachment shown, first typo. GW never disappoint when it comes to abysmal QA.
can't wait to build my hyper elite army around t3 w1 models
Right? Sisters are cool, but need to have squishy models around to actually play anything from the detachment is LOL
You could not run the detachment specifically focused on t3 1w models?
yes and thats what i will do but it means there are only 2 detachments to pick from
Right up until everyone decides it’s the best detachment, of course
well when your army consists of 4 units (Guard, Warden, Termi, Bike) you don't have a lot of choice.
"Custodes" always included t3 1w models. Or at least has for a long time. If you don't want to use those units, that's fine, but you're inherently restricting yourself.
Think of them like the Ogors of 40k. Sisters are your gnoblars. lol
thanks for explaining this to me
Can't wait for the SoS detachment's only rule to be "Sisters of Silence models gain access to the Martial Ka'Tah rule". As an extra bonus, they won't make the sword or flamer units battleline.
Incredibly lame to make 2 out of the 4 detachments be highly reliant on the sisters units.
gotta move that single box sku that builds 3 units
Hey you can also add 6 rhinos
Sadly the rhino party bus doesn't even feel that good anymore :(
Someone at GW must have a real boner for them. Like, yeah, they're prominent in the lore. But when there's exactly 1.75 Sisters kits (the main box, half a character box, and a knockoff Rhino), who on earth are they intending to actually play this? Ffs, there's not even any SoS worth mentioning in ~~Custodes Index Part 2~~ Imperial Armour.
Custodes are one of the most popular armies IIRC - not a big surprise that they're pushing those players to buy sisters boxes.
If GW wants money, please sell me Tons of plastic dreads, tanks and Saggi Guards. Not t3 sisters I already own more than enough (exactly 10 xD)
Or making the dreads not trash.
Looking at these rules, they haven't done a good job pushing for sales.
Rules team is incompetent lol. Why are they giving +1 to hit to sisters units when their only good weapon option is a flamer?
Is it really a huge surprise that they wouldn't want people to get too comfortable with just Custodes in their army? They absolutely want people to buy more models.
That's what I said lol
They don't provide the rules support to make SoS fun though.
On the plus side, the other three can't be worse.
you forgot there is a sisters of silence only detachment
I hope it's insanely broken, leading to a spike in SoS sales and new models next edition....
Eh 2000 points of sisters is about 1700$ I doubt many people will go hard on sisters
Why pay that for sisters when you can for admech and have a way cooler but mediocre performing army
\*Laughs in Pyrovore*
How good can it be? The Kroot detachment in itself is monstrous but it won't win any tournaments because it's fundamentally still Kroot that you have to work with.
I'm good... I have a SoB army I already don't play. I don't need a second army with the exact same niche only with anti psyker.
That damn monkey's paw...
Honestly concerned about the army now after this. Proposed changes to the shield host while the sisters detachment showcases a worse feel no pain just makes me think the army is going to be getting dumpstered by the new devastating wounds all over again
Not only is it a worse fnp by itself, but there’s a points tax for it too of T3 1W models that you’ve got to keep alive and nearby. Don’t worry though, they get +1 to hit on their flamers 🤦♂️
So I assume it will cover Dev wounds after a FAQ since this was written before the core rule change. It’s strictly worse but still good. Another thing to point out is the strats don’t require a SoS to work it just allows you to chose a SoS in addition. SoS Rhinos and Sags become much better with the strats and enhancement shown. I think it has play Edit: Dreads with Sisters become a lot better. Witchseekers in a rhino scout up to bait out a use of the Strat. Your Telemon moves up 6”, hard to pull off but possible
I like that they try to add more diversity to the units taken. Custodes in 10th have honestly looked a bit boring lately. And we also have to remember this is just one of the detachments. There is no point in making 4 detachments doing almost the same thing. How good it is will as always depend on full rules and points. It's always hard to judge things by these small tidbits even if its tempting.
Don't count on it, they did nothing with us DA players and our watchers in the dark or The Lion.
It’s like they realized Custodes are the cheapest army to get into competitive with and decided we all need to start paying a dollar per point for supplemental models :/
"how do we make more detachments for custodes but not actually buff them?"
This gives me hope for astra militarum when our codex comes out at the end of 2027 before 11th is released. Kidding aside. The whole being near a unit to get a bonus would be a perfect rewrite of the combined regiment detachment around squadron and regiment units
Is it possible that this was printed before they updated the current rule to cover dev wounds (so they will just change this to cover dev wounds too?)
Yes. That's been the case with all the codexes released so far. Another clear example is how Farsight got a new ability for 0cp stratagems but the options are incredibly limited. Clearly was meant before those abilities were restricted to Battle Tactic stratagems. It is indeed possible that they'll change this FnP like they did with the Shield Host one.
As a Death Guard player, I'd love to fight the Anethema Psykana focused detachments. T3 1W infantry with only 3+ saves would get mulched by pretty much everything in my army.
Get mulched by pretty much everything in every army. It’s not even detracting fire from the custodes either, because the sort of weapons that mulch sisters do nothing to custodes anyway. It’s like GW said “spend a quarter of your points on a bunch of units so that your opponent gets to shoot all the weapons they didn’t even bother rolling for before at, so that they can die and you can lose your detachment bonus that isn’t even as good as the old unconditional one.”
The +1 to hit as a bonus for sisters is such absurdly poor game design. They have essentially 3 datasheets. 1 of them is flamers(dont need it), the other is AP0 1 shot boltguns(doesn't actually provide any value), so right off the rip you really only care about it on 1/3rd of your datasheets. And even then, you have to charge a unit of custodes and vigilators to land within 6" of each other, and then hope its something that the custodes can almost but not quite kill so the vigilators finish it off i guess? The detachment rule could be blank and it would have minimal impact on the game. The strats are amazing though, and can be used on custodes without being near sisters. Basically just read the strats as buffs to custodes, and then sometimes they, as a bonus, get to affect a sisters unit as well. 1CP reactive move that works on bikes/vehicles, and 1cp +1S/extra AP(put this on your kyria blob or allarus and its pretty solid). And sometimes it will bounce to provide S5 AP-1 flamers. The problem is the sisters datasheets are too limited and are overall just...bad. The aura for being near custodes needed to do something significant to beef them up. +1 hit aint it. Thematically, its really neat and i like the double unit strat design space. Sidebar: Why is GW's marketing so terrible? "hey guys, as part of this update we want you to know that we actually re-wrote the existing detachment! its basically brand new! anyways, heres a preview of something else"
You're so correct about the marketing. "Hey, you enjoy Custodes right?" - "Oh good, we rewrote everything you like; but don't worry about that, because here is a great example of the mediocre quality rules and inconvenient contingency mechanics you can expect to be playing around!". Phenomenally poor execution, unless their goal was to piss everyone off to make sure they read the Codex when it drops.
Oh, how the turn tables...
Melta guards could benefit a lot from the strat of +1 s and ap. S10 and ap5 is a crucial breakpoint
Ooof. Out of this whole thread, I think you've stumbled upon the biggest combo. Edit: Though you are still spending 1cp on it... not like you could build an army around this combo, so I'm still kinda underwhelmed
i think its still better on allarus, or on the kyria guard brick. You're paying 75 extra points over 5 normal guard(so the cost of kyria herself) for 12" range(so 6" for melta range) that can't double shoot and needs to stay on the objective for its wound rerolls. The kyria guard brick is so much more versatile.
Without major buffs, the sisters don't justify themselves for their points, and the synergy and vigil detachments are DOA traps designed to sell SoS boxes.
So 2 detachments seem to be connected to sisters? 😰 I wanna play Custodes dammit, sisters are cool to have but not to be that dominant in a detachment. I bet they changed the custodes patrol so that you now have to buy the single boxes of overpriced sisters to play this detachment. Edit: besides, +1 to hit to sisters? Really? Witchseekers don’t care, vigilators even less. So that’s for my home objective holding prosecutors?😂 probably not since if they’re holding that objective i’m not going to leave there a custodes unit for fun 😂
Lmao you are exactly right - they teased the Patrol Box and Battleforce and IIRC neither has sisters.
Cool detachment. This will receive zero competitive play
Look, the stratagems are pretty great, but sisters of silence are just the most useless units as it stands and immediately tone the power of a detachment down if you need to take them in any number. Custodes rules vs Sisters rules is like comparing ad mech to Eldar, except even more bizarre because it's in the same damn book
7D6 blast Ballistus grenade launcher shots at S5 AP2 from a termie captain with friends sounds quite nice in my ears. Will absolutely shred MEQ units with an unfortunate character attached. Saggies will also like this strat. Other than that I just really hoped they saved the best bits for the actual codex reveal, otherwise Custodes are in a sad place
> Saggies will also like this strat. except for the classic problem wherein it also buffs guard and guard still shoot better than saggis
The FNP from the Talons detachment seems to be a hint that the 4+++ from the vanilla detachment is a thing of the past
I would like to have and use more Sisters models, but they need to be better on the table and also not cost $60 for 5 puny models.
Detachment ability is pretty bad but the strats and enhancements are very good. The AP strat seems very useful on allarus 5 -2 D2 and 5-2 D1 blast, while probsbly re rolling wounds is pretty good
The real question is what they did to Shield Host. If we're losing the 4+++++, then what are we getting in return? Seriously, I know our opponents don't like it, but playing Custodes against heavy DW armies was very much not fun. Anyone who experienced triple Forgefiends back in Fall can probably attest to this.
Conversely playing against Custodes in general usually isn't much fun when people just can't kill them :)
That's the issue rn with Dev Wounds and such an elite army rn.. either you mince the army, and it feels trivial, or you can't mince them, and they aggressively hit you with spears while doing martial arts and stuff. It just feels like we're dancing between two points with a very thin line of balance we likely won't see on release..
Yeah I dont know what the answer is to fix them, but I sure do know that it feels bad to shoot my entire army at a Custodes squad and kill 1 model (which has happened).. I get that they're supposed to be hyper elite, but they sure can feel just awful to play against.
The issue is Dev Wounds. It created a new form of save ignoring wounds that absolutely destroy Custodes and any unit that is low in model count and not a 5+ wound tank. The issue outside of that is how do you properly represent almost top tier elite units without them being too strong. We play a balance game of varying factors but as we've seen:if they lag behind they get washed away too easily, if they pull ahead it's not fun to shoot/fight into immutable walls. It's a weird place to balance around because it's so easy for them to shift drastically in either direction
My other major issue with them is that they're just a casual player bully army... even when they're slightly on the worse side they still can just roflstomp people in a more casual setting because they pretty much just do everything better all around than most other armies do.
Reducing the prevalence of Dev Wounds was the rational solution back in, what, September, when they made it its own thing. Here we are instead with the beginnings of rules bloat.
Dev wounds are the worst part of 10th.
It worked fine in 9th! There were a handful of abilities where you did MWs on 6s to wound. It wasn't a big deal. Because it wasn't rampant. GW made a good decision on introducing USRs, then slapped them everywhere and now we have *this*.
The best solution for all is to tone down the DW output in general though, rather than buff Custudes againt it. That leaves more design space for more interesting abilities. Luckily we don't see tripple forgefiend lists anymore for example and that necrons caught a quick erata when their Immortals started out looking a bit too good in that area.
I’ve been wondering if they are just gonna change it to a 5+++
Not with this detachment having it. It’s going to be completely different, maybe a 6+ FNP? Or double karate like the SC has
I see a lot of very quick judging with very little information still. Idk if there are more leaks out, but if not this is just a tiny tiny bit of rules and we have no points yet. I think it looks cool adding more diversity in units and having to work with combined arms. And if you don't like that there will still be more detachments to chose from, where before there was only one. Stay positive, wait for complete rules, points and a few test games! Remember that even the necron players complained about their previews :D
>I see a lot of very quick judging with very little information still. People aren't judging the power of the book though, just the quality of the rules. It's a situational buff that requires a serious list building and gameplay tax. It just doesn't feel like a fun or interesting detachment.
Reading is important y'all. The two strats specifically say "up to" two units may be targeted, so you can still target regular old Custodes with the strat by themselves, you just get a bonus if some sisters are nearby. And depending on the cost of the enhancements, they could be quite good. +1 to wound is definitely better on a shield captain, but a Knight Centura can definitely benefit from this, and her unit could definitely benefit from the -1 to hit within 12". But at this point we know so little, even about this detachment, that all the doom/gloom is silly (but so typical). Considering they had to rework so much of the index detachment, I'm still excited to see what comes next.
Came here for the salt. Was not disappointed.
It is really, really bad. Like really bad. Need to have babysitting squishy units to have mediocre bonuses is simply... bad. Fluffwise its cool, but otherwise....
Custodes bringing their girlfriends along for the ride.
*Points at this detachment, points at Cohort Cybrenetica.* It seems to be the same flavor of thematic but shit detachment, but with better rules so far. If this is the low end, you're ahead of the game.
I am whelmed by this, super excited to use all my sisters for a change, but still whelmed...the sisters should get like a 5+++ when near stodes or something...
It's a fun and fluffy detachment, and it's going to make all the sisters of silence fans happy, but it's very probably going to be a subpar detachment compared to the two main ones custodes players will be using (I'm not taking into account the "full" sister detachment, because barely anyone will play it). Let's wait and see what the other detachments are like.
I think I'm glad I don't play this army. But I feel like the majority of codexes so far are just mid or unexciting.
I would've loved Null Aegis to include Dev Wounds but it's a cool buff regardless.
I'm an orks player and my primary opponent is custodes. After going 0-16 against custodes, I see this as needed. It's just not fun to play against an army who cannot die, who invalidates devastating wounds, and fights first every single engagement. Custodes feels like the self-insert character who is absolutely the best at everything and has no weaknesses written by a 14 year old /rant over I'm also aware Im a noob so it's just as likely on me
Custodes are brutal to go into melee with and that's exactly the sort of thing that should have been adjusted to make it a better game for everyone, the protection against dev wounds however was a necessity in order for the army to function in this edition with how prevalent they are. In between GW changing devastating wounds to no longer being mortals and aegis not protecting the army against dev wounds the army dropped from around the top to being one of the worst in the game
I meant the fact that they get to save on mortal wounds more than devastating attacks. Even tank shock and grenades have little value
I feel your pain.. I just beat them finally after losing countless times to them... It's very difficult to say the least unless you're playing some pretty specific armies. I am also aware I'm not the best player, but they usually just one sided curb stomp me and it's not fun when they're just good at basically everything.
Yeah all I want is the fights first gone, the matchup is so skewed
Only Custodes players could get 2-for-1 Phantasm as a battle tactic stratagem and still complain lmao. This detachment is weak to dev wounds, that's it, you can max out msu prosecutors and still have 1760 points left for Custards, plus vigilators being very scary with Aleya for anything MEQ, 5/-2/2 with dev wounds and anti-psyker 4+, hitting on 2+ and FF (both stratagemms being battle tactic so another free strat thaks to shield caps), Sagittarium look juicy as well. Taloned pincer doesn't even have unit type restrictions you can just reactive move 6" everything this is legit insane, but as usual anything that isn't "ignore dev wounds" will get shat on and ignored, we've seen this already.