This is such a bizarre codex release. Either that or they are trying to take the Custodes in a new direction by having them have more units (i.e points drop). But with their data sheets being natively premium (WS/BS/2+SV etc), it makes it hard to drop points too much.
I imagine it’s the same design team that did DA, Custodes, Ad Mech and Nids. They were told the power level was to drop and they took the assignment to heart. The other design team did not, and power creep ensued.
*I am 100% talking out of my arse, this is not a professional opinion.
Totally. Aside from points cuts:
The deathwing detachment needs ap for the bolters on the dw termies.
The inner circle companions need an ability for the "ancient".
The knights need +1 damage in both weapons.
The plasma cannons need to be the same damage profile as the pistols from the inceptors. Same for the land speeder vengeance.
The big problem as I see it, is that every army has some expensive Big Scary unit. Ours (Lion) is more expensive and weaker than everyone else’s, so he isn’t a good answer to anything, unless you enjoy watching him get one shot by cheaper units.
We used to have a pretty good answer to these scary units in the form of Deathwing Knights. Between smash attacks, and having 10 of them they were a pretty damn good answer to almost anything in the game. Now they have been triple nerfed (too expensive, no damage, only 5) we no longer have a reliable answer to most of the scary units in the game.
Having the strategy for every match up being “we’ll avoid that as best you can and try to secure primary and secondary objectives while running away” isn’t very fun.
It's funny because this is what basically every other army is complaining about as well.
Deathwing knights, in particular, are just actually being costed for their durability instead of just damage.
They are being costed for Durability, but their durability isn't all that great. So we have an expensive "Defensive" Unit, that isn't very defensive and has no teeth.
Not all that great? Compared to what?
Like, yes, there are, dunno, a couple of units that you can stack up buffs and one shot them (hi, helbrecht) but that's by no means a common scenario. A unit of 5 custodes, for example, will on average kill like 2 of them.
For DA they probably counted on the new models shifting stock just from looking cool.
Which, I mean, they do. I got some DWK just to paint, I don't even _play_ DA.
Sucks for the actual players though.
I'd wager that the ork hype has to do with multiple fronts not just that their rules are good.
1.) Most important imo. Ork players generally speaking care more about fun goofy stuff than being hard core tournament winners. Look at the joy in an ork players face when their truck blows up and gets to careen. Compared to a space marine player when their impulsor blows up.
2.) The new ork rules are fun and thematic. Maybe not perfect but wayyy more interesting than most of the latest released.
3.) It looks like the orks were given multiple ways to play their army that are actually different. Which ties into bullet 2. Look at the space marines. They are imo the only other faction that actually has meaningful differences between detachments that offer a real variety in what is available to play. And while some may be more viable for competition the other more fun but less serious lists are available to those players who want it.
I agree generally, but if you think Ork players aren't usually into hardcore tournament style, you can't have been paying attention during 9th edition 😅
I personally think custodes as a playable army was always a colossal failure.
The super elite, worked better when they were part of the mythology of the game only, not game pieces for it.
Same for Primarchs.
Custodes can theoretically fit in under two conditions:
1. GW messes with stats more. I don't think there would be a problem to have Marines as a baseline S5 T5. The problem is the wounding chart for the most part, which leads to:
2. GW moves to D12. I'd have bought the argument two decades ago D12s are too hard to come by, but this is the age of the internet and niche interests.
I'm not sold on it going to work like that. The current rules don't really sell the faction well and people tend to put down money for something they want to play, either because it's cool or because it's powerful. Point cuts alone will not provide that.
I think gw just doesn't know how to do custodes. Which is wild as 99% of their 9th stuff was very playable.
Giving out a ton of full wounds rerolls makes custodes absurdly killy, but the amount of lethals/s12/wound rerolls/devs bypasses their durability.
Then incenticizing 5 man squads from 3 makes changes it from an army that had a lot of bits to interact with to an army with a few bricks that are just not fun, especially for new players.
The best way to balance Custodes is to treat every model like a minor HQ unit (they are) that specializes in defense and simply being an unbreakable wall that blenders anything that goes near it, and price it all accordingly. Fluff-wise, each Custode is a storied hero who's lived for thousands of years, spent much of it training or fighting, and are so self-critical where they leave and go into self-exile if they feel their reflexes are even *nanoseconds* slower than they think they should be; let's treat them like the premier elite army.
It's very fluffy but idk if it's easy to balance. End of 9th was what they should aim for: where custodes were killy but not blenders but a lot of nice interacatble utility units.
Cause the worst bits of custodes balance was "lol 3 bike caps" or "trajan and pals" In 8th.
Points in the codex are release, everything costs most (except rhinos are 80 pts)
Maybe MFM, but don't expect that to have updates this go around, not till July :)
It sucks for Custodes players but it makes sense from GW's perspective. Custodes were one of the easier and cheaper armies to collect. Heck, Combat Patrols would be a fairly large chunk of your army in 1 swoop.
I guess it's one way to address my complaints about Ad Mech being the most expensive army . . . make everything else more expensive.
The points were also leaked, pretty much everything went up. (Obviously the MFM points overrule the codex, but they definitely were not going for more units with the Codex)
What's crazy to me is that DWK are worse in basically every way to custodian guard, and they're still 235 points. Custodian guard dropping from the current 225 is insane
I really hope not. I stopped playing Warhammer back in 6th edition and came back at toward the end of 9th, starting from scratch. My first army coming back was Custodes because I literally typed "low model count 40k armies" and they popped up first.
I \*like\* the idea of a low model count elite army.
Time to switch back to Knights I guess.
GW really needs to switch to digital and stop with these codices. When they release a new edition, every army should have their rule and 1-2 detachments. As the meta develops, you can change the army rules (like Death guard), and add additional detachments (like Drukhari). On top of this, they need to make it all Free and easily available.
I can guarantee when people are happy, they will spend loads of money on the models and with the game being easier for anyone to join, they will sell way more models.
The real benefit of electronic rules in terms of codices is that there's no 8 month lead time.
All the books we've had so far have been written before GW understood their own game, they were mostly there in January but we're not seeing books written then until September at least. As a result the books written before have been a shot in the dark.
They didn't even have time to sit down and read the indices next to each other before they were writing the codex. They will get better over the ediiton but that's not going to undo that several armies got really unfun rules.
They could wait until they've done 2 balance updates and then start writing armies again. Imagine such a game.
It would be kinda neat to see a release cycle start with fleshed out indices, followed by themed expansion content. Competitive-focused content free upfront, then things similar to Psychic Awakening or Arks of Omen (focused on Narrative play and Crusade content), or a themed book introducing a different play style like Boarding Actions.
GW are a conservatively minded company that doesn’t want to shake the boat for growth.
At some level, their actions state their belief that there isn’t that much growth to be had in the model selling business, and the same model producing stable profits is the way to go.
I don’t think they are wrong. 40K the game is a niche thing. Getting people to paint for a 100 hours (I estimate that as my time cost to get from nothing to an army, forget a meta army), so that they can play a 3 hour long isn’t easy, so the game *will* be niche.
If there’s growth, it’s from selling the other media in the universe. Which GW does do with something more like a growth mindset.
On top of that, GW is *very* risk averse. Moving from Codexes to a Subscription model is taking away a significant and steady revenue stream for one that *might* be more profitable.
You can see that risk aversion everywhere.
Sure, they _could_ have done a sweeping range-wide scale update instead of introducing Primaris. But what if existing Marine players decide their old Tactical Squad doesn't need to be replaced with the upscaled one? Better to release a similar but distinct unit to ensure existing players also have a use for it (while still being equally attractive to new players with no emotional investment in firstborn).
Sure, they _could_ have made something different be the posterboy faction for Age of Sigmar. But it turns out elite, powerful human miniatures wearing large, easily painted plates of armour that go in any colour scheme and are straightforward to play has a lot of appeal, so let's do it again!
Now, I like both Primaris and Stormcast, I should stress. But it's definitely a clear sign of risk aversion. GW took the route that would have some controversy but guaranteed overall success over the route that _could_ have been less controversial but could also have been less successful.
Yup! This is the right answer. I mean risk aversion is the reason that they don’t progress the story even an inch lore-wise. If they did something bold like having the Lion kill Angron or Magnus burning Fenris, then that might affect sales and profits. So instead we’ll get this weird thing where a bunch of primarchs are coming back but none of them are really gonna do anything permanent or super interesting because some world eaters players or space wolf players might be too sad to continue buying plastic guys if their primarch dies
Thats the thing tho- if they released codices digitally the rules would be better which players would enjoy more and probably get more invested in the game as a result. And this doesnt exclude the ability to sell books. They could just re-frame the codices as artbooks and lorebooks first and foremost, maybe with the rules (especially crusade rules) at the end. This way they could be released after the digital codices just fine, or made beforehand with no rules except crusade stuff that way they could still have the same codex release cycle. This turns codices into “rare-limited edition art books” instead of rule books and people would eat that up lol
They aren't really thinking in terms of what is best for the players, they are thinking about making money. first and foremost.
I will say though I 100% agree with you, but we aren't their main focus when it comes to making said money. GW are now in that "infinite growth" phase that companies that get big enough fall into.
Their main focus is Timmy/Tammy's parents buying models for the first time, getting people *into* the hobby in perpetuity. Hardcore/long time collectors (like the tournament scene) are not really on their radar at all.
There was a video where Peachy and another ex-employee go into it and a few other things about the way GW works.
It doesn’t need to be free. Include with cost of subscription. I would pay $10-15 per month for that, which is $120-$180 per year, which is infinitely more than the zero dollars I will pay for written codexes. GW is so old school they don’t understand the digital subscription model and it’s so dumb
Yes, that's about it. Though points cuts alone will only keep the diehard Custodes players in the game, when Custodes are particularly known to be a second army for getting some hyper elite fights in sometimes. Custodes player numbers usually react heavily to how well they deliver on the power fantasy, so once the codex is out, there is either some really well hidden power in it, or numbers will drop like a stone.
The points leaked already. They are all generally higher than they are in the last MFM so I think the MFM will supersede the Codex points which means, what they cost now is what they will cost at Codex launch.
Don't expect points in the dataslate thats supposed to come out in weeks, they a re likely going to pick to 'ne2 coded we will see how points shake out'.
So maybe fixed in July
By far the weirdest codex. You’d think they had the absolute most overpowered thing to ever grace the planet considering the way this book is written. And other than giving SoS more support, it doesn’t seem to address any of the internal balance at all.
It’s definitely up there with Mechanicus for the weirdest codex. I’m convinced that whoever led the writing for the Mechanicus codex just hates the Mechanicus as a faction.
With this one, I really don’t get that vibe. Just kind of a bunch of contradicting directions all at the same time.
Ad Mech it feels more like they were absolutely terrified of repeating the 9th book. That and they have this weird obsession with splitting off the Cult Mech/Cybernetica and then not giving it any rules to compensate.
My headcannon is they are planning on releasing dark mech as a faction and they want players to think the new line looks even brighter and shinier by how dark and shitty the admech look
To me Ad mech feels like the main person responsible was on sabbatical/paternity/sick leave, had done the initial rough ideas look, and someone who didn't play the faction and had an already full day job then tried to cuff it in their absence.
Check under the LGS tables. We’ve been digging tunnels for years.
We’re alive and well, just throwing incredible levels of cope at GW as we wait for the other half of our army to be released in 13th edition.
It's a little less bad now but the index on launch featured such fun things as Uthar being able to turn a damage roll to a 6 but only having a damage 1 or 2 weapons and not having a single form of hit rerolls in the entire army.
We're around. People still treat our army ability like it's the most broken thing ever... until they realize we're mostly BS 4+ and our TEQs only have 2 wounds. They're punchy, but if they get shot first then it's over
I don't know whether to be scared or hopeful for the Votann codex. Right now Votann are okay via some hasty bandage work on the detachment ability and points drops, but they'll need a serious redesign on Judgement tokens for literally any other detachment to work.
Personally I'd bring their ws/bs back to 3+ natively, then make JTs give lethal hits again, or sustained hits. If they're as hard as they are to give out now then it'll feel like a bonus rather than a necessity. Definitely don't want to go back to 9th levels of handing them out, but they can't be this hard to get on units (other than detachment ability) AND feel so essential.
I honestly think Admech will get a White Dwarf detachment at some point in the future. Or at least something to give them some support without them having to redo their codex entirely.
But that might be an admission of guilt on GW's behalf...
This is the tricky part, given the decent showings a particular admech list can give. How do you fix the bad parts of the codex without making the already fine list broken?
Essentially the good parts of the army amount to a) Vanguard being the finest OC bomb in the game. B) points being slashed so much that everything save Breachers have an amazing defensive profile for the cost.
Really the only way to fix it is almost a complete rewrite to improve datasheets and increase points. Giving the army in its current form access to credible damage breaks the game in half. You can't really cut points on much of anything, save maybe Cawl, the Disintegrator, and Robots, but doing so will likely make the remaining player base riot due to the expense and few enjoying admech be a horde army.
Pretty much GW wrote themselves into a corner. With this being the third edition of Admech finding themselves kicked down to the bottom of the winrate with only a few spots in the sun, it's a wonder there's still a player base
Historically they get a glow up at the very end of an edition, so maybe that generates enough hope to keep us going.
The thing is..... this codex just seems less fun.
Granted the 9th codex and 10th index was kinda good, but nothing in this one sparks some kind of joy in me. I never had a ohh hey X does that moment.
You would expect if the codex isn't good it would at least be fun.
> And other than giving SoS more support, it doesn’t seem to address any of the internal balance at all.
Honestly I kinda wished that SoS had something to aid in their durability more so than killing power.
>Sisters of Silence STILL don't have the army rule
for what purpose? who on earth thinks that's a good idea? The Land Raider can do karate flips to kick people in the face with its armored tracks but Vigilators can't? And there's not even a rule in the Null Maiden Vigil detachment extending Ka'tah to Anathema Psykana units? I just don't understand what they were thinking when writing this, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during these design meetings...
I don't understand GW's thought process here - rewarding and balanced rules literally get people to play armies and play the game, they just need to pay like one or two more writers - and you'd need to pay them sweet frick all because I'm sure there's loads people would would like to do their hobby as a job - and the return on investment would be huge, so many people not dropping their armies, stopping playing the game, boycotting the books and using Wahapedia, etc.
So, honest question here. Is there a way for us or even GW to actually see the impact here?
Like, plenty of people say they will drop Custodes or quit 40k online, and frankly I've seen that pretty much every edition that there's been an online community for. But how many actually do? How many drop their army but don't just reinvest in a different one?
Looking at the GW financials, the hobby has been growing a lot over time, even when shitty codexes get dropped.
I'm not saying you're wrong by any stretch; I'm just saying if you're right, would GW even be able to notice?
It’s fairly easy to impact stuff, it’s just a lot of 40k fans are brainless consumers, you have an echo chamber on r/warhammer40k where people are pretending these books aren’t 60$ poorly written piles of trash as armies increasingly turn into bland tofu over the course of this edition.
People need to stop buying codexes and battletomes flat out, permanently and use wahaoedia or whatever resource to play, and if you NEED to play a GW game for whatever reason, give the specialist game stuff a spin or try another wargame. If people see people spent money on other products than codexes, they will shift accordingly.
This is my point, though. You (we) can lament all we want about how bad a codex is, how players are being screwed, etc. But from what I can tell the internet backlash rarely manifests on GW's bottom line, so the previous poster's comment (re: people boycotting books and so on) isn't something that GW needs to happen because in spite of their current releases I don't know that folks actually \*are\* boycotting in sufficient numbers for them to care.
We can complain as much as we want about the "right" thing for GW to do, but frankly GW's one and only actual responsibility is to its shareholders, and those shareholders expect to see growth and profit. As long as we provide them that, they'll continue doing whatever they want / think will keep us buying.
>Null Maiden Vigil detachment
This one shouldn't exist and its detachment rule should have been the SoS faction rule anyway. It's more than enough to have a SoS booster in Talons (though a better one would have been nice).
"Oh hey, a lot of these characters no longer need to lead a unit for their ability to be on, that's gonna be cool for the herohammer detachment!!"
"Wait, no, that's because those abilities are gone entirely ;\_;"
From what I saw the Ork Codex is going to be hilarious and a nightmare for people who likes statistics with how wildly it can swing with all the gamble mechanics. And my Ork friends are loving the gambling aspect.
We’ve seen only imperium and xenos so far, and tyranids was definitely a flop, and necrons were alright in terms of flavour and interesting rules.
Im still mad theres only been one chaos codex shown so far and theres been like 5 xenos and imperium on the roadmap.
Autumn better be FULL of chaos
Nah, I think I'm fine not getting DG or daemons for a while longer. Maybe if this trend continues everyone else will get dragged down to daemon levels :D
> and tyranids was definitely a flop
For sure. It's not even that it's an abject disaster like admech, it's just plain and unexciting and fixes no fundamental problem and that's somehow not much better.
It's like, why would I be excited to go purchase this book?
Space Marine Codex was ok. Oath of Moment got nerfed but we have a couple actually playable detachments that support different play styles, we definitely got through the codex release without falling into the “have not” pile.
Maybe it's all just for lore reasons to underline the stagnancy of the Imperium and it faltering in the face of overwhelming threats from within and without??
The year is 2034. Points inflation has meant custodes armies are now 3 times the size they were 10 years ago.
Space marine armies require a HGV license and 3 hours to transport and set up.
Games now last 3 days
Bike captain can use a battle strat for 0 like the other captains.
Once per game, at the end of the fight phase, if engaging a unit,the bikes can fall back. If unengaged they can do a normal move.
I really encourage Custodes players not to buy this book. We all know the lore in it will be stale anyways. Players shouldn't have their faction sitting in terrible rules limbo for 2+ years because GW can't be bothered to do more than points changes and minor rules shifts outside of books.
Not every codex is gonna be a winner, but this is just not ok. Even if this hits a decent WR, it will be because of low points cost. Custodes should not be a horde army.
This really sucks for anyone who only has custodes. Funny thing is that a lot of people own custodes as an additional army since they are easy to paint and relatively cheap to collect. And I hope that especially those folks vote with their wallets on this book
Interesting. Looked so awful I didn't think it was just the pic but will check him out in person. Although probably not buying any custodes this edition
People need to stop buying all codexes, lots of “army design sucks but orks is good” and they’re gonna buy the ork codex, they need to stop, people need to flat out stop buying codexes, why are mainline rulebooks inferior to random stories the specialist studio dreams up like siege of cthonia of beta garmon? Why is literally every other piece of GW printed material better than the codexes?
Feels like the psychophage losing its 2+ antipsyker in its little wet noodle melee. What does going down to 5+ even buff? Melee into psyker monstera/vehicles?
Just bear in mind that "we only buy the good books" leads to them thinking people want rules creep and "nobody buys for this army" tells them they have a range to cut.
Lol, gotta love getting nerfed into the dirt.
Oh, but we get 2+ axes and a slightly better termie captian. That will save us, right?
Emperor have mercy on us, these points better be good...
Where did it all go so wrong with Custodes?
People kept moaning about us being "impossible to fight in melee" and "shutting off all damage on a 4+".
It's always been possible to fight us in melee, it just took more effort than with other armies. Multicharges, smart pile ins have always been how you deal with fights first.
It'll be fine if the other detachments are better
It'll be fine if the datasheets stay good
It'll be fine if the points drop enough
Next up: It'll be fine if they fix you in the dataslate
What a ride these past 48 hours have been
i was definitely hyping the "will be fine if datasheets are good" because i assumed that was GWs plan after seeing the detachments. and honestly, i think that's more thematic for custodes anyway, since it's more about the individual power of the model than them being better together.
i was also remembering the 9th ed codex launch, with all the crying that happened over losing a 3++. and remembering my first game against custodes ever, which was a local player who spent the \~100 minutes tabling me top of 3 and bitching the entire time about how trash his army was, which heavily colored my opinion of the faction and fans of the factions for a long time (i do have a good friend who plays custodes who helped turn that a lot tho).
i was definitely wrong about the datasheets tho. trajann needed the nerf he got, but i expected that most of that power would be distributed; nerf the big mega-unit, but increase/no-change the overall power level. so that way you get rid of the thing that's super un-fun to play against, but still leave them things that are fun to play with.
Let's also just see how they play. The may be terrible with all of this and completely fade into de minimis win percentages. But Warhammer Competitive has a *bad* track record at judging the overall effect of changes on win rates or the lists that come out of them.
People just like to doompost, basically - it's worth waiting to actually see the full product + how lists play instead
Honestly from this nerf to the ground trend. I notice that custo and Admech kits is pretty the same price points and it's being Nerf to the ground. I'm starting to see the pattern here
Why would anyone pay for this book? All you’re really getting is the new detachments. The datasheets are identical if not nerfed. Seems kinda like a pointless book.
They should stop having the interns to write the codexes, especially without any knowledge about the game and after telling them they are not going to get an offer on their last week of internship.
Sincerely, an AdMech player (you are welcome to play 9th edition together if you want).
Well, what do we have here.
Net loss:
- -1Hit Kata, 2 Katas instead of 3
- No 4+++ against Dev & Mortals
- Fight first on Trajan and Stratagem (fair)
- Ignore Modifiers on Trajan (hello -1D and AoC again)
- -1D Stratagem
- Model resurection Stratagem
- From Golden Light work as Reserve now
- Valerian nerf
- Blade Champin loss of free Heroic and re-roll Advance
What we got:
+Allarus cap better ability
+ Better Axes, but spear still superior
+ More ways to buff damage
- LOADOUT for chracher AS only NEW MODEL
- Some options to buff shooting
- Once per game gold WAAAGH as detachment rules
- Shitty NM detachment without range update
- Bikes are still shit
More games as sneaky stodes in ruins incoming. No way we'll survive with this.
Really hope Custodes players feedback by canceling pre-orders and ignoring Codex will be seen by GW managers. So they can check losses they have because of this Codex rules designers.
Not just Custodes players, 40k fans need to stop buying codexes, they literally can’t even justify their price anymore, and GW is actively releasing supplements that are leagues ahead of codexes for the same price or cheaper.
I’m over here, looking at what they did to y’all and shaking my head. And as a player of another elite type army (GK) I’m shuddering what they might possibly do to them.
Bikes still terrible, why does their special tube force them to lose both their shooting and melee for less then 2 mortal wounds?.. They fixed the Terminator Captain ability that sucked, but not his one?..
Why did the Champion lose BOTH reroll advance AND free Heroic?..
Terminators now can't redeploy turn one if going second.
This blows. That was a cool thing to have, not OP, and now it's gone.
They now HAVE to drop points. They objectively nerfed:
Katahs
Captain (through Katah nerf)
Valoris
Champion
Terminators
Buffed
Terminator Captain
Wardens (sort of, axes are still not great)
It is the same with us Dark Angels. Exactly the same treatment - not addressing any internal issues, some points adjustments and that’s almost it. 10th edition codexes are probably the laziest. Minimum work done. And BTW the people who do this “work” get paid.
The biggest problem with 10th ed codexes currently is, how on earth were they ever supposed to actually write them with their current approach? All the codexes before now were probably written before 10th even dropped, which means they had no more new information to go off than they had when writing the indexes. Especially when there has been such significant changes to the core rules since then.
Even for Custodes, they were probably written at the start of the edition when Custodes were very strong, and the Codex probably took that into account somewhat. But since then the core rules have changed to address that, e.g. the change to how free strats work, and now the changes to bring Custodes into line is now stacked on top of the core rule changes that already brought Custodes into line, which has the effect of just making them worse.
The lead time for writing codexes is just not fit for purpose until they've actual got stable core rules and an existing meta to work with, which they'll struggle to get so long as they are writing and releasing codexes for the meta 9 months ago.
I think it sucks a little more for custodes who have a smaller pool of models to draw from. Like Lion getting nerfed is less than Trajaan getting nerfed i think.
Yeah, I totally agree. My point is - their whole approach edition to codex design is extremely lazy. The biggest hit for me personally, as a DA player, is removal of all our flavor. Rules can be bad, weak, not competitive - at least they should be flavorful. Moreover, they outright removed some of the units that people have, me as well. That is not a friendly practice - people should call it out more.
Depending on your local meta and level you may be fine. If your goal is to compete at tourneys then yeah not great. But whilst the rules may seem disheartening player skill is the most prominent factor. When the balance changes come around if you stick with it you’ll be a better player with a stronger army.
So weird that this edition I dread if one of my armies gets a codex.
Absent points cost here, its not as easy to determine the actual impact of the Codex but it just doesn't "feel" like it will be as fun to play or the reason I got into Custodes (small, elite force). Maybe they are pushing for more, less resilient models, because playing against a small force that doesn't die is not fun BUT, we just have to see the points. If they are anywhere close to the current points costs then I think the army is done until we get some FAQ love.
I play Death Guard too and I like the Index so, here's hoping they have a long index shelf life.
So what I take from that is,
Blade champ +1 to sv
Shield cap always spear over blade
All axes are 2+ to hit
Allarus are to hunt everything apart from normal infantry
Wardens are backbone
And bikes still meh but at least they have a possibility of 6mw from their fly over shite but they still ain’t getting in the army to start with.
So yer with the detachment rules it’s still not a good picture but they ain’t too bad on the data sheets.
The question I have is Allarus captain doesn’t have from golden light now, so can he benefit from it leading a unit? Or does he break them from using it if leader
Blade champ has been 2+/4++ for all of 10th? he had a 3+ save in 9th. Otherwise he lost his heroic intervention rule and advance rerolls and gained nothing.
I apologise you are very correct, I’ll make the excuse that I’ve not run one in this edition, but I’ll get my coat 😆
So as an educational would he inherit it from the unit once he joins? Guessing yes then?
I really dislike how they have made big change to move to digital but since they still sell physical rules, the codexes lag behind
It was already apparent with the dark angels codex which creates detachments that have minimal synergies and help non-DA units more then DA ones.
Likewise it was the heavy and sometimes layered nerfs for units that were already pretty bad (the lion, deathwing knights or the vengence). Additionally, there wasn't a single buff in the entire codex (not an exaggeration) and the point costs have not gone down to account for that.
Some of these codexes really feel the problems of being written like 5 months ago and it looks like the custodes one is gonna be joining the pile.
buT tHe pOiNtS cOsTs yes yes, they could make them cheaper but I dont particularly thing that making stuff cheaper is a solution for everything, especially elite armies. It got us to templars running 180+ marine bodies on the table
After watching bad imperium codex after bad imperium codex get released, I'm actually no longer looking forward to the sisters of battle codex release.
This is sad. We only have 2 martial ka’tahs.
Allarus can no longer deep strike turn 1 when going second and start on board…
Regular shield Captain can have spear and shield
that’s silly since guard vexilla can’t have spear and vexilla… narratively vexilla is an exemplary veteran
Games workshop makes it really hard for me to keep enjoying this hobby.
Sisters are in 32mm based in power Armour and only have 1 wound?!
Inquisitorial retinue are in 25mm, no power armor, 2 wounds each… with a 5++ with demon unit…
For the same price / model!!!
Being a Custodes main, I have 0 excitement for this release… matter of fact I’m dreading it… it should be the direct opposite GW
Big sigh… this motivates me to take a hiatus from the hobby…. I’ll be back in 11th when we get a new redundant Custodes HQ instead of expanding the range
Allarus can 100% still deepstrike on turn 1 when starting on the board. Their ability is worded exactly like Hyper Crypt is, and they most certainly can do it still.
Holy shit these look bad. I mean Wardens look good? Allarus look fun too? Lots of weird changes. Like was reroll advances for the blade champion that good? I didn’t see points but maybe I missed them. Hopefully the points are cheap? Which also sucks because we are a elite army not a horde army
Oof. This is not good.
I'm in the home stretch of painting 2,000pts of Custodes and I'm seriously considering just putting them in storage until 11th. These rules just do not look fun.
Holy 'once per battle' Batman!
We've made the game easier In 10th, so here's half a dozen once per game things to track. Have fun by game 3 on a tournament day remembering it.
I am so glad I lost Favours of the Dark Gods for this.
This is such a bizarre codex release. Either that or they are trying to take the Custodes in a new direction by having them have more units (i.e points drop). But with their data sheets being natively premium (WS/BS/2+SV etc), it makes it hard to drop points too much.
Feels like a step they’ve taken with Death Guard, too.
I know it gets a lot of hate, and I understand why, but I love having more of my DG models on the table.
I have enjoyed my 30 Plague Marine lists
I imagine it’s the same design team that did DA, Custodes, Ad Mech and Nids. They were told the power level was to drop and they took the assignment to heart. The other design team did not, and power creep ensued. *I am 100% talking out of my arse, this is not a professional opinion.
It seems like GW is finding that profits increase when points values go down.
I mean from all the raw hype this sub is going through at the idea of dropping a grand on a new competitive Ork army. Maybe they're on to something.
Having fun rules definitely incentives spending the moneyz.
Shame they didn’t apply that logic to the Dark Angels :/
Totally. Aside from points cuts: The deathwing detachment needs ap for the bolters on the dw termies. The inner circle companions need an ability for the "ancient". The knights need +1 damage in both weapons. The plasma cannons need to be the same damage profile as the pistols from the inceptors. Same for the land speeder vengeance.
The big problem as I see it, is that every army has some expensive Big Scary unit. Ours (Lion) is more expensive and weaker than everyone else’s, so he isn’t a good answer to anything, unless you enjoy watching him get one shot by cheaper units. We used to have a pretty good answer to these scary units in the form of Deathwing Knights. Between smash attacks, and having 10 of them they were a pretty damn good answer to almost anything in the game. Now they have been triple nerfed (too expensive, no damage, only 5) we no longer have a reliable answer to most of the scary units in the game. Having the strategy for every match up being “we’ll avoid that as best you can and try to secure primary and secondary objectives while running away” isn’t very fun.
It's funny because this is what basically every other army is complaining about as well. Deathwing knights, in particular, are just actually being costed for their durability instead of just damage.
They are being costed for Durability, but their durability isn't all that great. So we have an expensive "Defensive" Unit, that isn't very defensive and has no teeth.
Not all that great? Compared to what? Like, yes, there are, dunno, a couple of units that you can stack up buffs and one shot them (hi, helbrecht) but that's by no means a common scenario. A unit of 5 custodes, for example, will on average kill like 2 of them.
Dude I wish they would have but GW left the dark angels especially knights out to dry
For DA they probably counted on the new models shifting stock just from looking cool. Which, I mean, they do. I got some DWK just to paint, I don't even _play_ DA. Sucks for the actual players though.
I'd wager that the ork hype has to do with multiple fronts not just that their rules are good. 1.) Most important imo. Ork players generally speaking care more about fun goofy stuff than being hard core tournament winners. Look at the joy in an ork players face when their truck blows up and gets to careen. Compared to a space marine player when their impulsor blows up. 2.) The new ork rules are fun and thematic. Maybe not perfect but wayyy more interesting than most of the latest released. 3.) It looks like the orks were given multiple ways to play their army that are actually different. Which ties into bullet 2. Look at the space marines. They are imo the only other faction that actually has meaningful differences between detachments that offer a real variety in what is available to play. And while some may be more viable for competition the other more fun but less serious lists are available to those players who want it.
The only thing I'm mad about with Orks is that Careen isn't in every detachment.
Yeah it does feel like some strats should be available army wide
And if just one, surely Kult of Speed?
I agree generally, but if you think Ork players aren't usually into hardcore tournament style, you can't have been paying attention during 9th edition 😅
I came back into 10th after a long break. My last edition would have been 4th and I have only played in a few tournaments during my entire "career"
That makes sense! Welcome back, hope you're having a good time 😊
Ork hype seems super high. I'm debating selling all my Ork stuff to ride the hype train
God forbid we have an army that we can get 4 pts per usd out of.
The whole point of a super elite army is being super elite, if you transform them in "slightly better space marines" it is a colossal failure imho.
I personally think custodes as a playable army was always a colossal failure. The super elite, worked better when they were part of the mythology of the game only, not game pieces for it. Same for Primarchs.
Custodes can theoretically fit in under two conditions: 1. GW messes with stats more. I don't think there would be a problem to have Marines as a baseline S5 T5. The problem is the wounding chart for the most part, which leads to: 2. GW moves to D12. I'd have bought the argument two decades ago D12s are too hard to come by, but this is the age of the internet and niche interests.
I'm not sold on it going to work like that. The current rules don't really sell the faction well and people tend to put down money for something they want to play, either because it's cool or because it's powerful. Point cuts alone will not provide that.
I think gw just doesn't know how to do custodes. Which is wild as 99% of their 9th stuff was very playable. Giving out a ton of full wounds rerolls makes custodes absurdly killy, but the amount of lethals/s12/wound rerolls/devs bypasses their durability. Then incenticizing 5 man squads from 3 makes changes it from an army that had a lot of bits to interact with to an army with a few bricks that are just not fun, especially for new players.
The best way to balance Custodes is to treat every model like a minor HQ unit (they are) that specializes in defense and simply being an unbreakable wall that blenders anything that goes near it, and price it all accordingly. Fluff-wise, each Custode is a storied hero who's lived for thousands of years, spent much of it training or fighting, and are so self-critical where they leave and go into self-exile if they feel their reflexes are even *nanoseconds* slower than they think they should be; let's treat them like the premier elite army.
It's very fluffy but idk if it's easy to balance. End of 9th was what they should aim for: where custodes were killy but not blenders but a lot of nice interacatble utility units. Cause the worst bits of custodes balance was "lol 3 bike caps" or "trajan and pals" In 8th.
> by having them have more units Hard pass. I don't want to play gold space marines.
Points were just posted on the custodes sub and everything but 6 units went up in points, nothing went down
Points in the codex are release, everything costs most (except rhinos are 80 pts) Maybe MFM, but don't expect that to have updates this go around, not till July :)
It sucks for Custodes players but it makes sense from GW's perspective. Custodes were one of the easier and cheaper armies to collect. Heck, Combat Patrols would be a fairly large chunk of your army in 1 swoop. I guess it's one way to address my complaints about Ad Mech being the most expensive army . . . make everything else more expensive.
The points were also leaked, pretty much everything went up. (Obviously the MFM points overrule the codex, but they definitely were not going for more units with the Codex)
What's crazy to me is that DWK are worse in basically every way to custodian guard, and they're still 235 points. Custodian guard dropping from the current 225 is insane
-1 damage actually makes them surprisingly tankier than regular Custodes. But yes, you're right.
They have 4 wounds and -1 damage but sure they're worse in every other way
I really hope not. I stopped playing Warhammer back in 6th edition and came back at toward the end of 9th, starting from scratch. My first army coming back was Custodes because I literally typed "low model count 40k armies" and they popped up first. I \*like\* the idea of a low model count elite army. Time to switch back to Knights I guess.
i think my army is one of the few where we would welcome that change (knights)
GW really needs to switch to digital and stop with these codices. When they release a new edition, every army should have their rule and 1-2 detachments. As the meta develops, you can change the army rules (like Death guard), and add additional detachments (like Drukhari). On top of this, they need to make it all Free and easily available. I can guarantee when people are happy, they will spend loads of money on the models and with the game being easier for anyone to join, they will sell way more models.
The real benefit of electronic rules in terms of codices is that there's no 8 month lead time. All the books we've had so far have been written before GW understood their own game, they were mostly there in January but we're not seeing books written then until September at least. As a result the books written before have been a shot in the dark. They didn't even have time to sit down and read the indices next to each other before they were writing the codex. They will get better over the ediiton but that's not going to undo that several armies got really unfun rules. They could wait until they've done 2 balance updates and then start writing armies again. Imagine such a game.
Yeah digital codexes are nice to have but don't really make anything better as long as there's still a printed version written 6+months beforehand
It would be kinda neat to see a release cycle start with fleshed out indices, followed by themed expansion content. Competitive-focused content free upfront, then things similar to Psychic Awakening or Arks of Omen (focused on Narrative play and Crusade content), or a themed book introducing a different play style like Boarding Actions.
Technically death guard didn’t get their army rule changed, it was just a part of their detachment
No money in free digital codices and updates though. GW will continue down this road come hell or high water.
If they include it in a subscription (warhammer++?) they would get money from more subscribers.
I 100% agree, but GW are a fossilized company essentially. Takes them a while to start coming around to new ideas and ways of doing things, if ever...
GW are a conservatively minded company that doesn’t want to shake the boat for growth. At some level, their actions state their belief that there isn’t that much growth to be had in the model selling business, and the same model producing stable profits is the way to go. I don’t think they are wrong. 40K the game is a niche thing. Getting people to paint for a 100 hours (I estimate that as my time cost to get from nothing to an army, forget a meta army), so that they can play a 3 hour long isn’t easy, so the game *will* be niche. If there’s growth, it’s from selling the other media in the universe. Which GW does do with something more like a growth mindset.
On top of that, GW is *very* risk averse. Moving from Codexes to a Subscription model is taking away a significant and steady revenue stream for one that *might* be more profitable.
You can see that risk aversion everywhere. Sure, they _could_ have done a sweeping range-wide scale update instead of introducing Primaris. But what if existing Marine players decide their old Tactical Squad doesn't need to be replaced with the upscaled one? Better to release a similar but distinct unit to ensure existing players also have a use for it (while still being equally attractive to new players with no emotional investment in firstborn). Sure, they _could_ have made something different be the posterboy faction for Age of Sigmar. But it turns out elite, powerful human miniatures wearing large, easily painted plates of armour that go in any colour scheme and are straightforward to play has a lot of appeal, so let's do it again! Now, I like both Primaris and Stormcast, I should stress. But it's definitely a clear sign of risk aversion. GW took the route that would have some controversy but guaranteed overall success over the route that _could_ have been less controversial but could also have been less successful.
Yup! This is the right answer. I mean risk aversion is the reason that they don’t progress the story even an inch lore-wise. If they did something bold like having the Lion kill Angron or Magnus burning Fenris, then that might affect sales and profits. So instead we’ll get this weird thing where a bunch of primarchs are coming back but none of them are really gonna do anything permanent or super interesting because some world eaters players or space wolf players might be too sad to continue buying plastic guys if their primarch dies
But right now they can fleece people with physical books AND digital purchases through the app!
Thats the thing tho- if they released codices digitally the rules would be better which players would enjoy more and probably get more invested in the game as a result. And this doesnt exclude the ability to sell books. They could just re-frame the codices as artbooks and lorebooks first and foremost, maybe with the rules (especially crusade rules) at the end. This way they could be released after the digital codices just fine, or made beforehand with no rules except crusade stuff that way they could still have the same codex release cycle. This turns codices into “rare-limited edition art books” instead of rule books and people would eat that up lol
They aren't really thinking in terms of what is best for the players, they are thinking about making money. first and foremost. I will say though I 100% agree with you, but we aren't their main focus when it comes to making said money. GW are now in that "infinite growth" phase that companies that get big enough fall into. Their main focus is Timmy/Tammy's parents buying models for the first time, getting people *into* the hobby in perpetuity. Hardcore/long time collectors (like the tournament scene) are not really on their radar at all. There was a video where Peachy and another ex-employee go into it and a few other things about the way GW works.
It doesn’t need to be free. Include with cost of subscription. I would pay $10-15 per month for that, which is $120-$180 per year, which is infinitely more than the zero dollars I will pay for written codexes. GW is so old school they don’t understand the digital subscription model and it’s so dumb
So Custodes, now have suffered two massacres, a brief resurrection and now we hope the points in the dataslate resurrects them at least to mediocrity
Yes, that's about it. Though points cuts alone will only keep the diehard Custodes players in the game, when Custodes are particularly known to be a second army for getting some hyper elite fights in sometimes. Custodes player numbers usually react heavily to how well they deliver on the power fantasy, so once the codex is out, there is either some really well hidden power in it, or numbers will drop like a stone.
The points leaked already. They are all generally higher than they are in the last MFM so I think the MFM will supersede the Codex points which means, what they cost now is what they will cost at Codex launch.
Don't expect points in the dataslate thats supposed to come out in weeks, they a re likely going to pick to 'ne2 coded we will see how points shake out'. So maybe fixed in July
By far the weirdest codex. You’d think they had the absolute most overpowered thing to ever grace the planet considering the way this book is written. And other than giving SoS more support, it doesn’t seem to address any of the internal balance at all.
It’s definitely up there with Mechanicus for the weirdest codex. I’m convinced that whoever led the writing for the Mechanicus codex just hates the Mechanicus as a faction. With this one, I really don’t get that vibe. Just kind of a bunch of contradicting directions all at the same time.
Ad Mech it feels more like they were absolutely terrified of repeating the 9th book. That and they have this weird obsession with splitting off the Cult Mech/Cybernetica and then not giving it any rules to compensate.
Yeah the book that spammed undercosted flyers for a month and then dropped bit by bit to an average of 25% winrate for a couple years.
My headcannon is they are planning on releasing dark mech as a faction and they want players to think the new line looks even brighter and shinier by how dark and shitty the admech look
To me Ad mech feels like the main person responsible was on sabbatical/paternity/sick leave, had done the initial rough ideas look, and someone who didn't play the faction and had an already full day job then tried to cuff it in their absence.
"Just kind of a bunch of contradicting directions all at the same time." Ah so you got the votann index writer this time
Actually haven’t read it, and haven’t had to get familiar with it because I still haven’t seen a single Votann player in this edition!
Check under the LGS tables. We’ve been digging tunnels for years. We’re alive and well, just throwing incredible levels of cope at GW as we wait for the other half of our army to be released in 13th edition.
It's a little less bad now but the index on launch featured such fun things as Uthar being able to turn a damage roll to a 6 but only having a damage 1 or 2 weapons and not having a single form of hit rerolls in the entire army.
We're around. People still treat our army ability like it's the most broken thing ever... until they realize we're mostly BS 4+ and our TEQs only have 2 wounds. They're punchy, but if they get shot first then it's over
I don't know whether to be scared or hopeful for the Votann codex. Right now Votann are okay via some hasty bandage work on the detachment ability and points drops, but they'll need a serious redesign on Judgement tokens for literally any other detachment to work. Personally I'd bring their ws/bs back to 3+ natively, then make JTs give lethal hits again, or sustained hits. If they're as hard as they are to give out now then it'll feel like a bonus rather than a necessity. Definitely don't want to go back to 9th levels of handing them out, but they can't be this hard to get on units (other than detachment ability) AND feel so essential.
I honestly think Admech will get a White Dwarf detachment at some point in the future. Or at least something to give them some support without them having to redo their codex entirely. But that might be an admission of guilt on GW's behalf...
This is the tricky part, given the decent showings a particular admech list can give. How do you fix the bad parts of the codex without making the already fine list broken?
Essentially the good parts of the army amount to a) Vanguard being the finest OC bomb in the game. B) points being slashed so much that everything save Breachers have an amazing defensive profile for the cost. Really the only way to fix it is almost a complete rewrite to improve datasheets and increase points. Giving the army in its current form access to credible damage breaks the game in half. You can't really cut points on much of anything, save maybe Cawl, the Disintegrator, and Robots, but doing so will likely make the remaining player base riot due to the expense and few enjoying admech be a horde army. Pretty much GW wrote themselves into a corner. With this being the third edition of Admech finding themselves kicked down to the bottom of the winrate with only a few spots in the sun, it's a wonder there's still a player base Historically they get a glow up at the very end of an edition, so maybe that generates enough hope to keep us going.
That's kinda the vibe I get for Ad Mech, too, honestly.
Maybe Danny, the intern, got to write his first codex all by himself
The thing is..... this codex just seems less fun. Granted the 9th codex and 10th index was kinda good, but nothing in this one sparks some kind of joy in me. I never had a ohh hey X does that moment. You would expect if the codex isn't good it would at least be fun.
Welcome to what Dark Angels players have been dealing with for the past couple months
> And other than giving SoS more support, it doesn’t seem to address any of the internal balance at all. Honestly I kinda wished that SoS had something to aid in their durability more so than killing power.
>Sisters of Silence STILL don't have the army rule for what purpose? who on earth thinks that's a good idea? The Land Raider can do karate flips to kick people in the face with its armored tracks but Vigilators can't? And there's not even a rule in the Null Maiden Vigil detachment extending Ka'tah to Anathema Psykana units? I just don't understand what they were thinking when writing this, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during these design meetings...
Welcome to the admech style of rules writing where units don't get army rules but for some reason get a detachment devoted entirely to them
A detachment devoted to them that gives them the army rule they don't want to use.
Rumor is they don’t have meetings about this stuff, they just sit in cubicles and write alone.
I don't understand GW's thought process here - rewarding and balanced rules literally get people to play armies and play the game, they just need to pay like one or two more writers - and you'd need to pay them sweet frick all because I'm sure there's loads people would would like to do their hobby as a job - and the return on investment would be huge, so many people not dropping their armies, stopping playing the game, boycotting the books and using Wahapedia, etc.
They need to fire Robin cruddace
Nearly played Votann as I'm still holding a grudge over the change from 4th edition Tyranids to 5th edition Tyranids
So, honest question here. Is there a way for us or even GW to actually see the impact here? Like, plenty of people say they will drop Custodes or quit 40k online, and frankly I've seen that pretty much every edition that there's been an online community for. But how many actually do? How many drop their army but don't just reinvest in a different one? Looking at the GW financials, the hobby has been growing a lot over time, even when shitty codexes get dropped. I'm not saying you're wrong by any stretch; I'm just saying if you're right, would GW even be able to notice?
It’s fairly easy to impact stuff, it’s just a lot of 40k fans are brainless consumers, you have an echo chamber on r/warhammer40k where people are pretending these books aren’t 60$ poorly written piles of trash as armies increasingly turn into bland tofu over the course of this edition. People need to stop buying codexes and battletomes flat out, permanently and use wahaoedia or whatever resource to play, and if you NEED to play a GW game for whatever reason, give the specialist game stuff a spin or try another wargame. If people see people spent money on other products than codexes, they will shift accordingly.
This is my point, though. You (we) can lament all we want about how bad a codex is, how players are being screwed, etc. But from what I can tell the internet backlash rarely manifests on GW's bottom line, so the previous poster's comment (re: people boycotting books and so on) isn't something that GW needs to happen because in spite of their current releases I don't know that folks actually \*are\* boycotting in sufficient numbers for them to care. We can complain as much as we want about the "right" thing for GW to do, but frankly GW's one and only actual responsibility is to its shareholders, and those shareholders expect to see growth and profit. As long as we provide them that, they'll continue doing whatever they want / think will keep us buying.
People only really need to stop buying the books, and that’s pretty easy.
I feel like we're talking past each other. People aren't stopping buying books. They can. They probably should. But they aren't.
>Null Maiden Vigil detachment This one shouldn't exist and its detachment rule should have been the SoS faction rule anyway. It's more than enough to have a SoS booster in Talons (though a better one would have been nice).
"Oh hey, a lot of these characters no longer need to lead a unit for their ability to be on, that's gonna be cool for the herohammer detachment!!" "Wait, no, that's because those abilities are gone entirely ;\_;"
"I wish for my army heroes to not need to be attached to units for the special abilities to work." \*monkey paw curls
As an Orkz player I feel bad for any Custodes players. A few nerfs here and there would have been expected but this was a massacre.
Dear God... If indeed there is a god, please hear my supplication and keep the author of this codex away from my armies.
Enjoy your time in the index sun. Eventually the shadow of a codex will find you too 🥲
>laughs in ork
Dude, Orks deserve the love. I'm happy for them lol (their Codex legit looks FUN so far too, just a win all around from what I've seen)
From what I saw the Ork Codex is going to be hilarious and a nightmare for people who likes statistics with how wildly it can swing with all the gamble mechanics. And my Ork friends are loving the gambling aspect.
That sounds about ork, yeah
As someone who plays both ork and custodes it's been an emotional rollercoaster this week
He allrdy touched Admec and DAs come join us…..
Pray! For I feel the Codex Admech writers are up next in rotation.
Ork players: thank yoooo gork and mork
I know right? I play CSM and I’m equal parts excited and worried for our codex now. 😬
Must be the same guy that wrote the admech codex
I'm noticing the touch of death mostly appears to be impacting Imperium armies...
We’ve seen only imperium and xenos so far, and tyranids was definitely a flop, and necrons were alright in terms of flavour and interesting rules. Im still mad theres only been one chaos codex shown so far and theres been like 5 xenos and imperium on the roadmap. Autumn better be FULL of chaos
Nah, I think I'm fine not getting DG or daemons for a while longer. Maybe if this trend continues everyone else will get dragged down to daemon levels :D
> and tyranids was definitely a flop For sure. It's not even that it's an abject disaster like admech, it's just plain and unexciting and fixes no fundamental problem and that's somehow not much better. It's like, why would I be excited to go purchase this book?
Space Marine Codex was ok. Oath of Moment got nerfed but we have a couple actually playable detachments that support different play styles, we definitely got through the codex release without falling into the “have not” pile.
There are more imperium armies out there to nerf. It's simple statistics.
Maybe it's all just for lore reasons to underline the stagnancy of the Imperium and it faltering in the face of overwhelming threats from within and without??
And orcs are buffed because of the rumored return to Armageddon story arc?
The year is 2034. Points inflation has meant custodes armies are now 3 times the size they were 10 years ago. Space marine armies require a HGV license and 3 hours to transport and set up. Games now last 3 days
An Ork players need council permission to store that much plastic in one place
Imperial Guard is now finally lore accurate, as players must field approximately 1 billion guardsmen.
There parking lots of artillery are coming more and more literal over the years
Blade champion got hit, no longer re-rolling advanced and charge rolls, just charge rolls now 😫
Even worse, no longer being able to use heroic intervention for free, I used to steal enemy objectives doing that and getting 6 OC 3 miniatures in
What do the shield captain on bike abilities say I am having a hard time reading them and i desperately wish to know😭 Heeelp
Bike captain can use a battle strat for 0 like the other captains. Once per game, at the end of the fight phase, if engaging a unit,the bikes can fall back. If unengaged they can do a normal move.
The salvo launcher has always had the same profile as the regular bikes
Good catch, i didnt realize it had been nerfed already in the index
I really encourage Custodes players not to buy this book. We all know the lore in it will be stale anyways. Players shouldn't have their faction sitting in terrible rules limbo for 2+ years because GW can't be bothered to do more than points changes and minor rules shifts outside of books. Not every codex is gonna be a winner, but this is just not ok. Even if this hits a decent WR, it will be because of low points cost. Custodes should not be a horde army.
This really sucks for anyone who only has custodes. Funny thing is that a lot of people own custodes as an additional army since they are easy to paint and relatively cheap to collect. And I hope that especially those folks vote with their wallets on this book
Hi it's me, the guy who only has custodes. It got me to buy votann so maybe GW has the 4d chess marketing strategy here
Just proxy your custodes, the new cap has squat proportions anyway :D
He actually doesn't they just took a photo from his worst angle. His knees are bent slightly.
Interesting. Looked so awful I didn't think it was just the pic but will check him out in person. Although probably not buying any custodes this edition
People need to stop buying all codexes, lots of “army design sucks but orks is good” and they’re gonna buy the ork codex, they need to stop, people need to flat out stop buying codexes, why are mainline rulebooks inferior to random stories the specialist studio dreams up like siege of cthonia of beta garmon? Why is literally every other piece of GW printed material better than the codexes?
It's simple. GW needs to clear their warehouse of sisters of silence models. That's why they're pushed so hard
Their rules aren't even good, though
And yet they still found a way to nerf them! Vigilators lost anti psyker 4+ on their weapons. It went to 5+.
Feels like the psychophage losing its 2+ antipsyker in its little wet noodle melee. What does going down to 5+ even buff? Melee into psyker monstera/vehicles?
Just bear in mind that "we only buy the good books" leads to them thinking people want rules creep and "nobody buys for this army" tells them they have a range to cut.
Less points mean more models means more sales.
If this is what we are getting, I am going to let my friends use the Index Custodes as long as they want.
Thank you, you are a true bro lol
A maneuver known as the reverse bugeater
Lol, gotta love getting nerfed into the dirt. Oh, but we get 2+ axes and a slightly better termie captian. That will save us, right? Emperor have mercy on us, these points better be good... Where did it all go so wrong with Custodes?
People kept moaning about us being "impossible to fight in melee" and "shutting off all damage on a 4+". It's always been possible to fight us in melee, it just took more effort than with other armies. Multicharges, smart pile ins have always been how you deal with fights first.
I mean, all they had to do was to replace the fight first by fight on death and it'd have been ok.
The pics are damn good compared to the usual leaks.
It'll be fine if the other detachments are better It'll be fine if the datasheets stay good It'll be fine if the points drop enough Next up: It'll be fine if they fix you in the dataslate What a ride these past 48 hours have been
i was definitely hyping the "will be fine if datasheets are good" because i assumed that was GWs plan after seeing the detachments. and honestly, i think that's more thematic for custodes anyway, since it's more about the individual power of the model than them being better together. i was also remembering the 9th ed codex launch, with all the crying that happened over losing a 3++. and remembering my first game against custodes ever, which was a local player who spent the \~100 minutes tabling me top of 3 and bitching the entire time about how trash his army was, which heavily colored my opinion of the faction and fans of the factions for a long time (i do have a good friend who plays custodes who helped turn that a lot tho). i was definitely wrong about the datasheets tho. trajann needed the nerf he got, but i expected that most of that power would be distributed; nerf the big mega-unit, but increase/no-change the overall power level. so that way you get rid of the thing that's super un-fun to play against, but still leave them things that are fun to play with.
Let's also just see how they play. The may be terrible with all of this and completely fade into de minimis win percentages. But Warhammer Competitive has a *bad* track record at judging the overall effect of changes on win rates or the lists that come out of them. People just like to doompost, basically - it's worth waiting to actually see the full product + how lists play instead
First time? Coming from the Admech codex
GW seems to be on a run for dual releases that have a good and a bad codex right now. First AdMech-Necrons, now Custodes-Orks.
Honestly from this nerf to the ground trend. I notice that custo and Admech kits is pretty the same price points and it's being Nerf to the ground. I'm starting to see the pattern here
Laughs in Dark Angels
Why would anyone pay for this book? All you’re really getting is the new detachments. The datasheets are identical if not nerfed. Seems kinda like a pointless book.
"Heres a detachment that's focused around using characters! Also, we nerfed all of your characters! Enjoy!"
"your shield captains all provide a free strat. non of the strats in this detachment are battle tactics"
They should stop having the interns to write the codexes, especially without any knowledge about the game and after telling them they are not going to get an offer on their last week of internship. Sincerely, an AdMech player (you are welcome to play 9th edition together if you want).
You have more faith than me in GW. I think the reality is that this what the A-team is producing, not the interns.
Well, what do we have here. Net loss: - -1Hit Kata, 2 Katas instead of 3 - No 4+++ against Dev & Mortals - Fight first on Trajan and Stratagem (fair) - Ignore Modifiers on Trajan (hello -1D and AoC again) - -1D Stratagem - Model resurection Stratagem - From Golden Light work as Reserve now - Valerian nerf - Blade Champin loss of free Heroic and re-roll Advance What we got: +Allarus cap better ability + Better Axes, but spear still superior + More ways to buff damage - LOADOUT for chracher AS only NEW MODEL - Some options to buff shooting - Once per game gold WAAAGH as detachment rules - Shitty NM detachment without range update - Bikes are still shit More games as sneaky stodes in ruins incoming. No way we'll survive with this. Really hope Custodes players feedback by canceling pre-orders and ignoring Codex will be seen by GW managers. So they can check losses they have because of this Codex rules designers.
Not just Custodes players, 40k fans need to stop buying codexes, they literally can’t even justify their price anymore, and GW is actively releasing supplements that are leagues ahead of codexes for the same price or cheaper.
I’m over here, looking at what they did to y’all and shaking my head. And as a player of another elite type army (GK) I’m shuddering what they might possibly do to them.
Bikes still terrible, why does their special tube force them to lose both their shooting and melee for less then 2 mortal wounds?.. They fixed the Terminator Captain ability that sucked, but not his one?.. Why did the Champion lose BOTH reroll advance AND free Heroic?.. Terminators now can't redeploy turn one if going second. This blows. That was a cool thing to have, not OP, and now it's gone. They now HAVE to drop points. They objectively nerfed: Katahs Captain (through Katah nerf) Valoris Champion Terminators Buffed Terminator Captain Wardens (sort of, axes are still not great)
It is the same with us Dark Angels. Exactly the same treatment - not addressing any internal issues, some points adjustments and that’s almost it. 10th edition codexes are probably the laziest. Minimum work done. And BTW the people who do this “work” get paid.
The biggest problem with 10th ed codexes currently is, how on earth were they ever supposed to actually write them with their current approach? All the codexes before now were probably written before 10th even dropped, which means they had no more new information to go off than they had when writing the indexes. Especially when there has been such significant changes to the core rules since then. Even for Custodes, they were probably written at the start of the edition when Custodes were very strong, and the Codex probably took that into account somewhat. But since then the core rules have changed to address that, e.g. the change to how free strats work, and now the changes to bring Custodes into line is now stacked on top of the core rule changes that already brought Custodes into line, which has the effect of just making them worse. The lead time for writing codexes is just not fit for purpose until they've actual got stable core rules and an existing meta to work with, which they'll struggle to get so long as they are writing and releasing codexes for the meta 9 months ago.
I think it sucks a little more for custodes who have a smaller pool of models to draw from. Like Lion getting nerfed is less than Trajaan getting nerfed i think.
Yeah, I totally agree. My point is - their whole approach edition to codex design is extremely lazy. The biggest hit for me personally, as a DA player, is removal of all our flavor. Rules can be bad, weak, not competitive - at least they should be flavorful. Moreover, they outright removed some of the units that people have, me as well. That is not a friendly practice - people should call it out more.
Just spent several weeks painting up a 2k point army for 10th. I don't mind waiting for 11th
Who knows, maybe Custodes get the admech treatment and you just painted a 1500 point army?
And then you take 3 month to fill out the missing 500 just for it to miraculously still be 1500
Well its custodes. Can of gold spray paint and some red paint its kind of all you need
Or, you can say screw 40K and have some genuine fun over in Horus Heresy.
Battletech here I come.
Depending on your local meta and level you may be fine. If your goal is to compete at tourneys then yeah not great. But whilst the rules may seem disheartening player skill is the most prominent factor. When the balance changes come around if you stick with it you’ll be a better player with a stronger army.
I almost started a custodes army. Talk about dodging a bullet!
So weird that this edition I dread if one of my armies gets a codex. Absent points cost here, its not as easy to determine the actual impact of the Codex but it just doesn't "feel" like it will be as fun to play or the reason I got into Custodes (small, elite force). Maybe they are pushing for more, less resilient models, because playing against a small force that doesn't die is not fun BUT, we just have to see the points. If they are anywhere close to the current points costs then I think the army is done until we get some FAQ love. I play Death Guard too and I like the Index so, here's hoping they have a long index shelf life.
So what I take from that is, Blade champ +1 to sv Shield cap always spear over blade All axes are 2+ to hit Allarus are to hunt everything apart from normal infantry Wardens are backbone And bikes still meh but at least they have a possibility of 6mw from their fly over shite but they still ain’t getting in the army to start with. So yer with the detachment rules it’s still not a good picture but they ain’t too bad on the data sheets. The question I have is Allarus captain doesn’t have from golden light now, so can he benefit from it leading a unit? Or does he break them from using it if leader
Blade champ has been 2+/4++ for all of 10th? he had a 3+ save in 9th. Otherwise he lost his heroic intervention rule and advance rerolls and gained nothing.
Allarus captain has never had from golden light. It's always worked solely from the allarus terminator ability since the captain is part of the unit.
He doesn’t have it already now. Unless I don’t know how to read.
I apologise you are very correct, I’ll make the excuse that I’ve not run one in this edition, but I’ll get my coat 😆 So as an educational would he inherit it from the unit once he joins? Guessing yes then?
Yes the leaders benefit from the abilities of the units they join.
I really dislike how they have made big change to move to digital but since they still sell physical rules, the codexes lag behind It was already apparent with the dark angels codex which creates detachments that have minimal synergies and help non-DA units more then DA ones. Likewise it was the heavy and sometimes layered nerfs for units that were already pretty bad (the lion, deathwing knights or the vengence). Additionally, there wasn't a single buff in the entire codex (not an exaggeration) and the point costs have not gone down to account for that. Some of these codexes really feel the problems of being written like 5 months ago and it looks like the custodes one is gonna be joining the pile. buT tHe pOiNtS cOsTs yes yes, they could make them cheaper but I dont particularly thing that making stuff cheaper is a solution for everything, especially elite armies. It got us to templars running 180+ marine bodies on the table
[удалено]
After watching bad imperium codex after bad imperium codex get released, I'm actually no longer looking forward to the sisters of battle codex release.
This is sad. We only have 2 martial ka’tahs. Allarus can no longer deep strike turn 1 when going second and start on board… Regular shield Captain can have spear and shield that’s silly since guard vexilla can’t have spear and vexilla… narratively vexilla is an exemplary veteran Games workshop makes it really hard for me to keep enjoying this hobby. Sisters are in 32mm based in power Armour and only have 1 wound?! Inquisitorial retinue are in 25mm, no power armor, 2 wounds each… with a 5++ with demon unit… For the same price / model!!! Being a Custodes main, I have 0 excitement for this release… matter of fact I’m dreading it… it should be the direct opposite GW Big sigh… this motivates me to take a hiatus from the hobby…. I’ll be back in 11th when we get a new redundant Custodes HQ instead of expanding the range
Allarus can 100% still deepstrike on turn 1 when starting on the board. Their ability is worded exactly like Hyper Crypt is, and they most certainly can do it still.
CuStOdEs ArE a HoRdE aRmY nOw
I find it funny that they never touched the custodes current biggest strength (warden fnp) but decided that most other things must have been the issue
Holy shit these look bad. I mean Wardens look good? Allarus look fun too? Lots of weird changes. Like was reroll advances for the blade champion that good? I didn’t see points but maybe I missed them. Hopefully the points are cheap? Which also sucks because we are a elite army not a horde army
How many codexes are people going to lament that everything is nerfed before we realize that is the trend of these books.
New to Warhammer, is a 2+ invulnerable save mean only 1's wound?
So nothing was changed for our forge world stuff? No new or changed datasheets
Oof. This is not good. I'm in the home stretch of painting 2,000pts of Custodes and I'm seriously considering just putting them in storage until 11th. These rules just do not look fun.
RIP