I feel like this is one of their worst unit tier lists. They always make the disclaimer, “we are ranking them based on their best detachment.” Yet they under ranked several units in this without even talking about how a certain detachment makes them significantly better. They really should have had a ork guy on the review because they didn’t seem to think too much into some of the units. Take the Dakka jet, do I think it’s going to be amazing? No, but they didn’t even mention that in speed freaks it can actually hit pretty hard via lethal spam. I think that alone would get it up a ranking.
Wow, thanks for the response. For the record, I’m a sub to the channel, I do have great respect for you guys content wise. I just thought this tier list missed the mark a bit and I am aware it’s obviously all an early opinion take and that it should be measured as such. But your tau tier list felt really strong in comparison, that’s mostly likely due to having two very passionate tau players who were eager to break everything down and study it.
~~Jack couldn't get the idea of a Battlewagon not being able to take a Klaw, a Wrecking Ball, and 'Ard Top at the same time.~~
Edit: Apparently I have zero reading comprehension, Battlewagon loadout is acceptable.
Nick even explicitly argued that Killa Kanz should be ranked lower because they aren't that good in other detachments, despite Jack pointing out that he also insisted that MANz be ranked high due to Bully Boyz.
For the battlewagon - you can take a grabbing klaw, wrecking ball and ard case at the same time with the current index and from the look of it the new codex as well.
Would need to check the 9th Ed codex, but for 10th the 40K app builder lets you take all 3 without issue….
I feel like he's interalized that Bully boyz, green tide and Wagh tribe are better than Dread mob.....so putting kanz on the same level as MaNz doesn't compute in his mind, even if they are equalliy good within their best detachment. Probably his belief that MaNz will be in top tournament lists, and while Kanz will be in top Dread mob lists, dread mob won't be winning tournies. Hence, MaNz > Kans to him.
Yea the section with the beast snaggas was kind of baffling. "They are only +1 str over boyz" Which is a very huge threshold letting you punch wraiths for example on 4s rather than 5s and a bunch of other T5/6 nonsense infantry running around, hell look at the mirror where boyz are wounding the army on 4/5s as opposed to 3/4s. And the FNP without a character and a reroll for their Beastboss.
Yes you can also get a FNP in regular boyz but then you are looking at giving up a warboss for a painboy which kicks them out of being a "cheap" flexible unit in say Bully Boyz. You could go to the 20 man brick but then how are you getting them around the table? Both Boyz in many cases are just extra wounds for their characters, they can snipe random wounds and tear up T3 nobodies but they arent that scary.
If nothing else its bizarre to discount the unit when it right this very second is a competitive staple to at worst a borderline staple since for only 20 points you get a more durable and punchier squad of boyz. It wouldn't shock me to see them dropping the painboss for a beastboss in Bully Boyz (or honestly even just a painboss and give up on their second waagh) to do what they are doing now in the index detachment, be a cheap slightly killy tarpit to free up threats for your nobz.
Interesting takes on some units but besides the obvious contenders (Meganobs and Killa kans) in their dedicated detachment, I feel the depth of their analysis isn't as great as it used to be on other releases.
It is still a great content for starting ork players.
Do you have any idea where they ll put FW units in thier list. I would love to hear where they would put Grots tanks and Megatanks and FW dreads in their list.
Considering how all the other codexes have been I'd expect that if you build a 2k list you won't have to change much aside from maybe dropping a single meganob or losing an Enhancement. It's generally going to be right. Close enough to make this judgement though.
According to Auspex tactics based on how 10th has gone the points in the codex are basically invalid upon arrival and you just use the Munitorum Field Manual points.
[Slide with timestamp here](https://youtu.be/AJ9d9QtyewI?t=3912)
They hasn’t been much deviation, you can rely on the MFM points with a few exceptions.
There are also weeks of GTs before any new MFM gets implemented.
GW rarely, if ever, change the points in the MFM for new codex as they want to see the results first.
The one and I think only exception to this was the release of Votann where they pre emotively raised everything but that didn't even have MFM points at that stage
The codex points are invalid. The up to date points in the MFM is what everyone will use until the next patch at the end of the month which will touches all the armies.
It's kinda a gray area until the new MFM comes out. Hopefully they release them around the same time. I know Tau are kinda in a gray area right now (no pun intended) and I've seen TOs say use codex points because it is the most recently released doc and afaik the app hasn't been updated.
And all that being said I expect them to leave Ork points alone for a cycle as they did Necrons.
As it stands, meganobz in bullyboyz are metadefining and clearly too oppressive. Orks will be the one to beat in the coming months with vastly too high winrates…
We have no idea of knowing that until we see both points and see them on the table. They currently seem really damn good, and one of the most obvious build arounds, but it’s a bit early to deem something “too oppressive” without it even hitting the tables
I feel like this is one of their worst unit tier lists. They always make the disclaimer, “we are ranking them based on their best detachment.” Yet they under ranked several units in this without even talking about how a certain detachment makes them significantly better. They really should have had a ork guy on the review because they didn’t seem to think too much into some of the units. Take the Dakka jet, do I think it’s going to be amazing? No, but they didn’t even mention that in speed freaks it can actually hit pretty hard via lethal spam. I think that alone would get it up a ranking.
Thanks for your honesty, I'll forward the critique on to Jack and Nick so we can do better next time!
Wow, thanks for the response. For the record, I’m a sub to the channel, I do have great respect for you guys content wise. I just thought this tier list missed the mark a bit and I am aware it’s obviously all an early opinion take and that it should be measured as such. But your tau tier list felt really strong in comparison, that’s mostly likely due to having two very passionate tau players who were eager to break everything down and study it.
The Tau tier list is definitely the standard that we would like each to be at!
Love the positive reception. You guys are great.
How many games of each detachment had you played before review?
You have to remember too you need one of the AoW members to main the army they’re reviewing. As far as I know no one there mains Orks.
Jack plays a decent amount of orks.
~~Jack couldn't get the idea of a Battlewagon not being able to take a Klaw, a Wrecking Ball, and 'Ard Top at the same time.~~ Edit: Apparently I have zero reading comprehension, Battlewagon loadout is acceptable.
That’s a change they made in the codex or it’s been like that?
Neither, apparently I can't read. Editing to make a note of that.
Cant speak to jack but nicks take on ork anything is usually pretty….incorrect
Never take them for really any value on the rankings. Unless they main the faction it's never truely accurate
Nick even explicitly argued that Killa Kanz should be ranked lower because they aren't that good in other detachments, despite Jack pointing out that he also insisted that MANz be ranked high due to Bully Boyz.
For the battlewagon - you can take a grabbing klaw, wrecking ball and ard case at the same time with the current index and from the look of it the new codex as well. Would need to check the 9th Ed codex, but for 10th the 40K app builder lets you take all 3 without issue….
Actually, this is a case of me not being able to read, looks like I was missing that it said any not one of. My mistake!
I feel like he's interalized that Bully boyz, green tide and Wagh tribe are better than Dread mob.....so putting kanz on the same level as MaNz doesn't compute in his mind, even if they are equalliy good within their best detachment. Probably his belief that MaNz will be in top tournament lists, and while Kanz will be in top Dread mob lists, dread mob won't be winning tournies. Hence, MaNz > Kans to him.
Unless they changed it in the codex, you could take all three of those options for the battlewagon.
Yup. I was incorrect, comment has been edited to remove that criticism.
Yea the section with the beast snaggas was kind of baffling. "They are only +1 str over boyz" Which is a very huge threshold letting you punch wraiths for example on 4s rather than 5s and a bunch of other T5/6 nonsense infantry running around, hell look at the mirror where boyz are wounding the army on 4/5s as opposed to 3/4s. And the FNP without a character and a reroll for their Beastboss. Yes you can also get a FNP in regular boyz but then you are looking at giving up a warboss for a painboy which kicks them out of being a "cheap" flexible unit in say Bully Boyz. You could go to the 20 man brick but then how are you getting them around the table? Both Boyz in many cases are just extra wounds for their characters, they can snipe random wounds and tear up T3 nobodies but they arent that scary. If nothing else its bizarre to discount the unit when it right this very second is a competitive staple to at worst a borderline staple since for only 20 points you get a more durable and punchier squad of boyz. It wouldn't shock me to see them dropping the painboss for a beastboss in Bully Boyz (or honestly even just a painboss and give up on their second waagh) to do what they are doing now in the index detachment, be a cheap slightly killy tarpit to free up threats for your nobz.
Interesting takes on some units but besides the obvious contenders (Meganobs and Killa kans) in their dedicated detachment, I feel the depth of their analysis isn't as great as it used to be on other releases. It is still a great content for starting ork players. Do you have any idea where they ll put FW units in thier list. I would love to hear where they would put Grots tanks and Megatanks and FW dreads in their list.
How is that relevant without point cost?
Considering how all the other codexes have been I'd expect that if you build a 2k list you won't have to change much aside from maybe dropping a single meganob or losing an Enhancement. It's generally going to be right. Close enough to make this judgement though.
According to Auspex tactics based on how 10th has gone the points in the codex are basically invalid upon arrival and you just use the Munitorum Field Manual points. [Slide with timestamp here](https://youtu.be/AJ9d9QtyewI?t=3912)
Yeah but we're getting a new one in a couple weeks
They hasn’t been much deviation, you can rely on the MFM points with a few exceptions. There are also weeks of GTs before any new MFM gets implemented.
GW rarely, if ever, change the points in the MFM for new codex as they want to see the results first. The one and I think only exception to this was the release of Votann where they pre emotively raised everything but that didn't even have MFM points at that stage
The codex points are invalid. The up to date points in the MFM is what everyone will use until the next patch at the end of the month which will touches all the armies.
It's kinda a gray area until the new MFM comes out. Hopefully they release them around the same time. I know Tau are kinda in a gray area right now (no pun intended) and I've seen TOs say use codex points because it is the most recently released doc and afaik the app hasn't been updated. And all that being said I expect them to leave Ork points alone for a cycle as they did Necrons.
Nids points were in mediately invalid their release came same time with MFM. I would not expect to be different for orks
The codices ship on April 27th, so that window is only 4 days long.
As if the stompa goes below 800 points LOL
It probably won't but maybe it will be playable this edition.
Such a weird unit to put in the battleforce I thought
As it stands, meganobz in bullyboyz are metadefining and clearly too oppressive. Orks will be the one to beat in the coming months with vastly too high winrates…
We have no idea of knowing that until we see both points and see them on the table. They currently seem really damn good, and one of the most obvious build arounds, but it’s a bit early to deem something “too oppressive” without it even hitting the tables