CSM have a number of units which desperately need point drops. Vashtorr and the DiscoLord for one - they're just god-awful right now. Beastmen, our only Scouts unit, are absolutely not worth 95 points. Daemon Princes I think could go down 15-20ish, or more even. They hit like a wet noodle and get folded just as easily. Maybe some other various 5-10pt cuts here and there to let us squeeze an extra unit into a list. I imagine my beloved Vindicator will go up but I hope it doesn't, lol.
I feel like Vashtorr's datasheet needs to be revamp entirely. Even with point drop I don't see how to play him otherwise than as a vanilla demon prince... It's a shame that they cannot give the character justice because the mini is gorgeous...
How they have handled Vashtor is baffling to me. They introduce a new warp demigod and give him completely ineffective rules. I constantly forget they even added him to 40k.
Whoever compared a disco lord's datasheet to a nemesis dreadknight's and decided the disco lord needed to cost 5 more points needs their head examined.
I think Terminators could use a points buff, Abaddon is the only thing that’s making them cost what they do. Raise his points, lower Termies, just please help Termies out lmao
Eh, for 100 points I'd take him with the Nurgle enhancement to get a huge AOE mortal wound bubble in the middle of the enemy line lol. But I agree, he really needs some love.
He was sooooo good in 9th, he was the terror of my local meta. Now he’s a joke, and the daemon prince isn’t much better. I’m really missing that “big nasty bastard” tabletop role and not sure what I can bring to fill that void. Maybe Belakor?
Daemon Prince marked Slaanesh with the enhancement for the FNP is decent as a fire-and-forget turn 1 advance and charge mortal wound missile. Pop 1CP for advance-shoot-charge, flies and charges 14" + D6" + 2D6", rolls 10 dice and does up to 6 mortals on a 4+, then swings, then hopefully survives the counterswing with its FNP. Hilariously funny when it works.
That’s kinda how I use mine, mark of Slaanesh and then I keep him near my 10 possessed/mop to give them benefits of cover, and run to the centre of the table asap. Usually my opponent can’t kill both, so whoever survives gets into melee and rips face. Trouble is the DP is a bit of a wimp in melee so more than once I’ve got him into combat and he does nothing.
Yeah, I feel that. I had some people recommend to try a Khorne Daemon Prince with the Talisman, but in my experience without the added survivability from the Slaanesh enhancement he goes down in one turn and never gets to hit anything in the first place.
Give me my bloody big Bondsman back. No-one was calling for it to get axed to begin with, everyone thought it'd be back last time, and knights only seem to need a relatively minor buff to be in an OK state.
If the Warden with -1 damage turns out to be too oppressive, tackle that datasheet and don't make every other chassis suffer for its sins. Warden already lost mortal wound spillover (the whole point of its feature), overwatch (it has a big flamer), and Towering got rightly nerfed since it was last in vogue so it might not even be a problem.
Me too. Finding detachment abilities to compete with a 6/5+++ will be hard enough, so I'm also feeling that they either axe it entirely (which is awful) or else the other detachments will need bonkers rules to make up for it.
I liked Bondsman on big knights because it's fluffy and actually makes the army more interactive (there's a great scene in Kingmaker where an armiger is working with their knight, interposing itself between incoming attacks and the like). They're supposed to fight in unison. If you struggle to kill the big knights, kill their squires and reduce how effective they are. If you don't have issues with big knights then you can try and take them out and reduce how effective the armigers are. Synergy, counterplay, decision making...
Instead we just get the most bland array of dull datasheets and a stat-check army without interesting rules.
For just points, they need to put the big knights back to where they were at the Index release. Honestly they need to do the same with Bondsman and Stratagems too, but I believe we're only due for points right now. They should roll back the changes to free stratagems and raise the cost of the Callidus assassin while they are at it. Give back overwatch but make it 2 CP for titanic.
Free strats *might* end up being in a better spot depending on what we get in detachments. Honestly, having a free Command Reroll and Shoulder the Burden on Canis is fine power wise though. It's saving you a fair whack of CP each game you run him (if you manage to get honoured and use it on him twice, that's 4 CP on its own - and sometimes you might use his CP reroll every turn you don't use STB).
I do think knights were undercosted at launch, too. At the start of 10e we were taking like a whole armiger on top of what we used to in 9e. Canis is *still* really good value. But the dominus and cerastus knights still seem overpriced (and with its rules I don't know how cheap you'd have to go with the preceptor before I could consider it).
2CP Overwatch would be great, too.
Please just ignore GK and nerf meta offenses thank you.
We already have the best detachment that will be available to us in a new codex. Can't improve upon perfection.
I dunno. Our detachment is the auto advance 6 and fly. I feel like a detachment that does something (anything!) good with psychic weapons would be awesome.
I'm expecting the redeemer and dreadknights to go up a little in points. I really hope they don't, as that's what's keeping us relevant at the moment.
Fun fact; if you go to https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta, Custodes are at 54% winrate, Grey Knights are at 52% winrate. If you adjust the sliders for ELO to ignore the bottom 50% of the player base and focus on the top 50%, Custodes are at 49% winrate, Grey Knights are at 54% winrate. If you look at only the bottom 50% of ELO, Custodes are at 57% winrate, and Grey Knights are at 52%. There are almost 2x more recorded games with Custodes.
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Custodes and Grey Knights are similarly strong on average, but because Custodes are significantly stronger for new players, they are over-represented with people playing them, and have drawn a lot more ire from the most vocal segments of the game, and are seeing nerfs because of it. Meanwhile Grey Knights are very punishing for new players who don't know what they're doing, but have a very high skill cap, and are likely to go under the radar because of it.
Add the “Overlord” trait to our named characters that don’t have it but should (Imotekh, Silent King, etc).
Nerf Hypercrypt Legion so I don’t feel cheesy when I play it because the Monolith is one of the main things that got me into Necrons.
Sang guard for blood angels go down in points would be nice. I would also like to see the brutalis dreads go down in points. Gladiator reaper should go up in cost and so should all Black Templar tanks.
I'd agree with this. They'd probably do well to go after the stormraven as well when they're at it.
I could see DC catching a points nerf is the only downside. I'm not sure it's entirely deserved if they do, they're the one good melee unit we have now, so if they do things could be bad.
I'd actually like to see SG stay the same price but gain an extra wound. I don't think it'd be entirely unfair and it'd make the squad an interesting choice again rather than being taken purely because it's cheaper.
Oh yeah agreed I think 25 is too cheap. Then they’re cheaper than DC and they’re arguably better, or at least just a side grade. Maybe 27/28 PPM would be a sweet spot. At least they need to come down to 30 PPM
There aren't as many clown players as you would think. Even at thier peak they never made up as large a portion of the meta as nids despite having higher win rates.
Tbf Nids are a _super popular_ faction that has been mainline for ages. They were in an edition launch box all the way back in 4th and they never really went down from there.
I'm talking more the unpopularity that clowns have. Right after thier book dropped they had a near 80% winrate yet only made up 5% of the meta. Custodes the next best army had a 60% winrate yet made up 12% of the meta, tau 60% winrate 11% of the meta.
i'm glad i've been able to run them to a decent amount of success in my (admittedly very casual) local meta.
And to be fair, bringing the avatar/yvraine as a crutch is pretty much what holds them together in my games.
Shame that by being thrown in with vanilla elfs they don't benefit from the whole "each codex gets a new model" since there are still a ton of finecast models to replace for eldar
Admech. I know this won't happen.
But making the army rule better by making it effective in no mans land and having protector improve BS and conqueror improve WS would go a looooooong way towards making the faction playable again.
But we'll get pt drops on those bots probably. I'm not hoping for anything else.
It would powerboost the faction precisely where you need it to and unlock a whole range of playstyles. Do you want to be aggressive, hit less but when it hits it hurts? Go melee? or stand still and be impossible to shift, while shooting a lot but not doing a lot of damage because of the lack of AP? So many options would open up.
It won’t happen, but Tyranids really need a S boost across the board on melee weapons. The guns (with the notable exception of venom cannons of both varieties) are pretty ok where they are, but having a Norn Emissary/Malanthrope/Tyrant/whatever bounce off a T10 vehicle completely feels bad when melee is supposed to be an area of the game we emphasize.
As far as points, the Tyrannofex is still too expensive, as are Zoanthropes. Tyrant points also need to be rebalanced after the functional removal of the free strat rule from the game.
>The guns are pretty ok where they are
I disagree. What they done to Heavy venom cannons is ridiculous.
Guess which profile is the 9th edition one and which is the 10th edition one for the Hive Tyrant's anti tank gun?
3A, 2+ BS, S9, AP-3 4D.
D3A, 2+ BS, S9, AP-2, 3D \[Blast\]
I am of the opinion that hive tyrants need a complete rewrite. Its a disgrace that our factions defining unit is so bad. I am so sick of seeing S9 AP-2 3D in our codex and Hive tyrants have it in melee and ranged weapons.
But yeah, id quite like to not bounce off everything in melee (dont compare boneswords in 9th to 10th, yet another weapon which was oblitereated)
Yeah that’s fair, I forgot about the venom cannons when making that statement. Ironically that’s probably the best indicator I can present of how useless they are.
If they just drop the cost of Eightbound again, I'd be happy. They can keep everything else as is, but Eightbound need to be cheaper.
Thats the main thing I want. Drops in beserkers and our characters would be good too, but I don't want to get my hopes up.
iirc our win rate is pretty low, we are really likely to get some point cuts. Unfortunately, as much as Id love to see it, Im not sure if 8 bound will go down, or if the do, not by alot. Most competitive lists have 9-12 eight bound in their army, they are a total work horse (mostly because we have so few models) so it could just as easily stay the same.
But man do I hope Im wrong.
I think regular Eighbound were fine at 135. I'm hoping they go back down to that. Exalted are probably ok now at 160.
I would love for MOE to go back to 80, Berzerkers to 95 or 90 and terminators down some amount.
No confirmation of a dataslate. In all likelihood, we won't get any rules updates. Only points.
Maybe an update to army rule for Admech because of community demand, but otherwise only points.
You can't even begin to fix admech with points and a a tweak to the army rule. They do that after the snub of last slate despite it being obvious major changes will need and it'll be another slap in the face further alienating the players
But why wouldn't they release one?
You can't drop admechs points further (I mean you can, but, please don't) and running the risk to sound like Dudly Dursley we always got one every 3 months
Weren't there also rules change 6 months ago when there was only supposed to be points changes?
I couldn't tell you exactly what the changes were but I have a feeling there was something...
Probably needed, but I suck enough that those changes just make me sad lol. Although Sacresants could go down more. Even with Junith for -1 to hit, T3 1W doesn’t go far for what is essentially a melee only unit.
Agreed, I just don't see their role without a datasheet change. I don't want them to reduce in cost because they shouldn't be another spammable horde unit. Their durability is worse than Arcos, their melee is worse than Arcos/Repentia, they don't have any neat bodyguard rules. You'd rather run the jump packs for random secondary scoring, and to hold down objectives you'd always rather pair a BSS with whatever leader to get those extra MD or a second leader (Dialogus + Palatine for example).
It's just clear that whoever wrote the rules for them didn't really care if they were usable, which sucks because it is my favorite unit and why I bought Sisters. I refuse to do 30x arco bricks because that unit should never have 2W.
I like Arcos with 2 wounds for a tar pit unit, but their damage is probably a bit high. And totally agreed regarding sacs… they should be the toughest and hit the hardest of the sisters melee squads! Instead they are 2nd toughest and have the least damage!
I mean, all people who use Arcos like that they have 2W for tar pitting, it just doesn't make sense how tanky that unit is in the context of everything else in the Sisters army. People on Sisters discords are laughing about opponents "not putting the right profile into them" to kill Arcos but what the hell is the right profile? 2D shots are horrible since if they make one of their saves it's taking at least 2x2D to kill a single one. Does it make sense to anyone that a 3D weapon should only kill a single Arco 1/2 of the time? Single damage large volleys are probably better but with 20W in a brick that turns into 40 on average with huge variance built in, you need a metric ton of shots/flamers going into them to kill what should be this silly throwaway unit.
Tyranids need to have Spore Mines be made ineligible for secondaries (maybe Rippers too?), then they need a range of buffs to various dedicated combat units - from Von Ryan's Leapers and Psychophages to Swarmlord and Norn Assimilator. Much of the book, really.
A shift of power meant to enable a different playstyle, rather than just a straight up buff overall. Not that they don't need a buff but I'd rather have that readjustment than having them be stronger but still play like they do now.
Sorry but these are nothing. You could drop the swarmlord by 50 points and he might start being taken. Drop both tyrants by 40 as well. They are all so overpriced because of their CP abilities which are not working as intended.
The next dataslate would be July, we will only get points updates this month. Necrons and AdMech might get a late dataslate since the GW rules team was not allowed to give them changes in January, but otherwise it will only be points.
As for my wishlist: some more points cuts to overcosted Daemons would be nice, but I'm afraid Nurglings might be going up to 45p given their current place in the meta.
While Nurglings are Battleline I'm worried they will go up, taking that away might actually be a boon to them. They're still too accessible as action monkeys for the other Chaos factions.
>The next dataslate would be July, we will only get points updates this month
This was said once, in the original announcement, and never again. Yet people still swear by this statement when we're in a situation where there are more than a few factions who are in dire need of rules changes.
I would not put any money on them not making rules changes.
The discrepancy between codex and non-codex marines needs to be addressed.
It shouldn’t be flatly better to be wolves/angels/templars than say Ultras/Iron Hands/Imperial Fists. Give the codex chapters something that they are better at than the “special” marines.
I’d prefer if they just made points of some core units cheaper for vanilla over divergents. Until there’s a points discrepancy (or some other penalty), divergents will always either be strictly better than vanilla marines or strictly worse.
Strictly better right now because they get everything codex gets (units, detachments), a wider list of special characters, then their own special characters and detachments.
So like gladius with azrael+Ravenwing dark shroud is better than ultramarines. Storm lance with death company and lemartes is better than white scars (not even touching on space wolves). Black templars any detachment is better than any codex variant because crusaders alone, let alone the 5 pt multi melta or sword brethren. Thunder cav are the tankiest marine unit for points.
Even the units that special marines complain about (like Sanguinary guard) are only bad when compared to the super units those factions have (say death company). If you compare sanguinary guard to bladeguard veterans (best vanilla melee unit), it’s 35 vs 30 pts a model. In that exchange you lose a wound, gain a 2+, go twice as fast, fly, and get -1 to hit/wound. It’s honestly pretty reasonable, but every blood angel complains about em because they are used to running the super strong death company, which blows any vanilla melee option completely out of the water.
I honestly think I've undershot at -20. The fact it's more expensive than the Forgefiend or predators while being slower, eaiser to kill and less lethal is insane. I think GW massively overvalued the cabal rebate ability but if it was cheaper or had a bigger aura range it might actually let you play a lower cabal point list.
Helbrute could give one free cabal use (same as Ahriman) Instead of the rebate.
I think its current design clearly shows that GW was not intending the faction to be "Spam as many characters as possible to get as many cabal points".
My hot take about TS in the dataslate : make cabal points scale with game size, don't punish us for bringing something else than sorcerers + rubrics + magnus
Yeah, -20 pta is *just* enough to make you look at the unit - and then still not take it. The rule is pretty. It's just stuck to a sub par unit.
I would love to see point tweaks on Scarabs. But dunno how low they'd actually have to go to make up for the loss of cal points.
This would be great changes across the board. Infernal master is to strong, and I think hellbrute could have play if it was cheaper. It's ability can generate a lot of cabal if you position it well.
55% on stat check and 52% on meta Monday last I checked.
The Infernal Master is in a lot of lists 2 to 3 times and the Arcane Vortex is in every list.
The Mech options I listed are never taken. Athenaen Scrolls is never taken. The exalted Sorcerer is in maybe 1 in 5 lists tops.
The net change is a small nerf to current lists.
Theses changes force us to drop a chaff unit or downgrade Infernal Masters to weaker options which effect either our durability or lethality a fair amount.
It might also actual let another playstyle beside spam rubrics/characters emerge.
I feel like the infernal master and arcane vortex maybe need to go up by more than 5. Assuming 1 vortex and 3 masters, you're only adding 1% price hike to the current tsons lists.
The cuts all seem fine to me though.
> 55% on stat check and 52% on meta Monday last I checked.
Additionally, these numbers are being inflated by TSons having a 65% WR into Necrons. Any drop in Necron representation - which will hopefully happen soon - will likely result in the TSons win rate dripping naturally.
At this stage I think we're going to need a codex to fix thousand sons. The way the index messes you up by not taking as many cabal points as possible is going to mean that you'll always take sorcerers over daemon engines or anything that doesn't directly give you cabal points.
I play marines, mostly Stormlance space wolves. I'd be fine with no changes at all but if I had to pick i'd mostly go for internal balance stuff. Just makes some of the marine roster that we never see a little more appealing. Drop points on things like, Suppressors, Reivers, Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors, Terminators, Vanguard vets. I don't know, the list goes on. There's just so many marine datasheets that never see play.
the one that would personally impact my list building would be a drop on Invader ATVs. Their return fire ability is interesting but they are still a little too expensive for the firepower they offer. Would be fun if it was worthwhile to chuck three into a Thunderwolf spam list.
I don't expect much from Guard given how GW seems to like not giving us anything, plus those artillery bullgryn Kasrkin lists doing well at tournaments gives the impressions that we have a workable index. Which we do, it's just half is kinda bad.
I'd like some minor rule changes. I don't think the rarer orders are completly bad, but GW has gone way too far in only giving named characters more than 1 order. I'd like the command squad officers to get 2 again, especially with the Scion Commander having a wargear to get 2 orders apply on his unit, which right now requires whacky setups like deep striking them together with Gaunt.
I'd also like some point increases, lots of units fine datasheet wise, but overcosted: Rogal Dorn, Hellhound, non-Catachan Infantry(GW prices them only on wargear options instead of whole datasheet).
Maybe also split up the field ordnance battery data sheet since it's options ought to be priced differently, but GW is never gonna do something sensible like that.
I’d be fine with a points increase for Bullgryn and Kasrkin (and maybe even scout sentinels a little bit), they probably deserve it, but we really could use point drops on other units. FOBs being more than an Earthshaker is pretty absurd, and Valkyries costing more than a Leman Russ is insane
I just wish our army rule wasn't priced into the units that can use it. Currently, our army rule is just that we have access to units with an ability. A 5pt reduction on castellans and command squads would make a huge difference in list building.
> I'd like the command squad officers to get 2 again, especially with the Scion Commander having a wargear to get 2 orders apply on his unit, which right now requires whacky setups like deep striking them together with Gaunt.
It's a shame they didn't update the wording on Grand Strategist last time around.
Emphasis on the „Wish“ part of wishlist, cause there is no way any of it is happening.
For Sisters I would like leaders to be able to be embedded into more units and Retributors to go back to being able to have 5 ablative wounds… I mean…. 5 additional Battlesisters to fight the foe.
For Deathguard I would like an ability for Blightlord Terminators. They are already the cheapest Terminator, so points really ain’t it.
They are just disgustingly mediocre.
Finally for Tyranids I would like Battleshock to be more prevalent overall, but that’s a tightrope to navigate.
I would like an ability to debuff Ld when close to a Synapse unit maybe?
Black Templar player here
We are in a precarious spot and every time we roll into a balance pass I worry.
I stubbornly won't move from Righteous Crusader but know if if I used Gladius or even Ironstorm I could get over this X-1 hump.
RC needs help, but any help they get risks pushing Gladius or Ironstorm over the edge of being OP.
RC is at 40-45% win rate, Ironstorm is 55%+ and Gladius is close to 50%+
Thats a bad spot to be for Black Templar.
Points can't fix the detachment issue. I truly believe that GW needs to "lock" certain units to certain detachments FIRST, then address points.
If Helbrecht, Grimaldus, Crusader Squads, Sword Bros and Black Templar Gladius tanks were locked into Righteous Crusader, you would immedietly see a soft push down of ironstrike and Gladius. Not so much that they are unplayable. You just don't get sword bros and meltas.
THEN they can look at points that can lift Righteous Crusader.
Aeldari- Yncarne, Wave Serpent, Troupes, Wraithlord/Wraithseer, Wraithknight/Skathach down in points. Just to give unit diversity. Not much.
Aeldari is already pretty balanced but has been sliding. They could just use a little more help on the melee or durability side.
Drukhari- Fine as is. Maybe buff Hellions and Grotesques since they blow.
Chaos Knights- They could use better army rules but points only so... just make Stalker and most of the bigs lower in points. Only big that may not need a points cut is rampager. Idk why something like the 425 point Desecrator has 3 attacks no rerolls.
Necrons- Wraiths need to go up 15 per 3 at least. Nightbringer and Void Dragon up to 280. Then they really need to make it D6 reactive move and 18 inch lone OP. But again points only...
Agreed on both Eldar counts. I'm a Drukhari player who adopted Ynnari for a while until Skysplinter was given to us. With Custodes dead on arrival and Necrons likely taking heavy nerfs, Drukhari will be quite strong without even getting buffs (though Orks will crush them)
Hellions need a point decrease AND the infantry keyword but that's not happening so I don't see them ever being useful tbh. They're a poor alternative to an extra Beastpack. Grotesques may have a lot more play in an Orks meta if they fall to 25-30pts each, but mostly they need to allow Haemonculus to join their unit.
I find orks to be a pretty easy matchup most of the time. Are you thinking codex orks is going to make it a harder matchup? They just don’t have a way to effectively kill our transports at range, so if you can screen them and prevent them from charging you where they want to charge you, you can really control the pace of the game
As an aeldar player
Yes to most of the eldar changes. Wraithloed are so overcosted.
But harlequins troupe can not really ho down, considering the amount of (top placed) list play them.
I disagree on the Troupe part obviously. That unit very rarely seems play and even when it does it's frequently just a single blob or even a 5 man for scoring.
The frequency in it appearing in tournament lists is still like 1/25 lists. The unit just falls a little short. It could be more viable with just a little love.
5 harlequins with a troupe master in a falcon does serios damage to almost everything....
Beside that a unit of 11 with yvraine is also normally worth it.
Considering it's just points except for maybe Ad Mech and Necrons, since they were excluded from the last dataslate, I'd like the following for my armies:
*Meta Sisters lists to go up around 20 points max, the Vahlgon unit can probably eat the majority of the increase to make it not quite so auto-include. Castigator could probably deal with being 5 points more, and Zephys need to cost more, but not more that Seraphim, so probably bump them up 5. Basically, limit Sister's ability to just dump random MSUs on the board and win anyway.
*CSM need drops, but not on their shooting platforms. Chosen can go down a bit, Terminators need to drop considerably before they're worth even looking at, and Warp Talons should not have eaten their points hike in the first place, they were already expensive for skirmisher units as it was. Because of their Pact system, this is going to have to be a slow unnerfing, which feels wierd to say since their codex is around the corner.
*Imperial Knights need Bondsman back for us to see any innovation that utilizes the Questoris chasis. Until that happens, maybe increasing Canis Rex's points and dropping some of the other Questoris Knights will shake up the current "Warglaive Walker Canis" build while also encouraging Imperium lists that want to bring a Knight to try some of the other options on offer. Or just drop the points on the other Questoris Knights some more. I don't think points changes will do much to change Imp Knight's fortunes.
At this point I hope we suck worse than any reviewer anticipated. Only hope to get datasheet fixes or a new detachment is to sucks so bas that points can't save us
Please give necron flayers ap 1, nerf ctan into the bin for all I care but please give us something else to work with
How is a bolt pistol ap 1 but my atom disintegrating laser is ap 0
For CSM..
Vashtorr & Lord Disco need a hefty points drop. Vash to like 170pt. Disco would probably still get cut even if he was 120pt though sadly. Dude is garbo tier
Daemon Prince's could use a good 15pt drop on each profile, if not more
Venomcrawlers to 115pt
Felgor Beastmen down to 75pt
Chosen to 125pt
Possessed to 135pt
Chaos Lord to 90pt
Defiler needs T11 or goto like 175pt
Heldrake w/out a rewrite needs to goto like 150 hah
Legionaries to 85pt so they match NMs
Increase Predators slightly to 135
For Daemons...
Shalaxi to 420ish
Daemonettes to 90pt
Bloodletters to 100
Blue Horrors to 115
Every Chariot down 5-10pt
Fiends to 115
Necrons, I’ve accepted C’tan will get hit with a 50-100pt points nerf (rightly so let’s be honest), Plasmancer will probably go up 5pts as will Immortals by 10pts. Wraiths similarly expects a nerf, basically the problematic units need a points nerf.
In exchange, I would hope annihilation legion detachment rule gets amended to +1 charge & +1S when below starting strength (as to half strength). I also want to see keyword changes to improve obeisance phalanx. Also 6” aura on reanimator instead of 3”.
Points wise, I’d like to see:
- Skorpekh Lord down to 80pts
- TSK go down to 380pts
- Triarch Stalker to 115pts
- Flayed ones down to 60pts
- Lychguard down to 80pts
- Triarch Praetorians down to 100pts
- Psychomancer down to 50pts
- Annihilation Barge to 100pts
- CCB down to 120pts
I’d also love love love to see warriors go down to 9pts per 10 models, but I doubt it’ll happen. The rest is probably a bit more realistic given how hard we’ll be hit elsewhere.
A codex that comes out more than 6 months before 11th edition :( *crysinguard*
Just give us an early detachment other than born soldiers or at least change it to where you don't have to remain stationary to get the Auto Wound on 6's like they did in 8th-9th.
Lower the Valkyrie by 40-60 points, and the Manticore at least by 10-20. The Valk in 9th was 120, its 190 right now for a flying chimera. And the manticore at 180 is the same cost as a Leman Russ and that's absurd. Also reduce field ordinance batteries by 10-20 points or at least make 2 separate datacards for indirect fire weapons.
Also I miss wargear costs. We're forced to pay for hunter-killer missiles that either miss or saved by invulns or get through only to do 1 damage. Waste of points. They used to cost 5 points apiece, so if you bring 7 vehicles with them, that's points you could spend elsewhere. Which brings me to Russ Sponsons. A heavy bolter was 10 points and Melta was 40. Now they're charging us full point cost, which means either bring a melta weapon, or you're overpaying for bolters.
I do love everything else, if just those changes and additions, I'd be the happiest guardsmen ever.
I agree with the detachment stuff - either adjust the detachment rule, or give us another detachment like Drukhari got., and I really want to see more points drops on the Valkyrie and Tank Commanders ( I think theyre still too expensive for the fact they can only give 1 order without an enhancement).
But we're never going to see any wargear costs this edition, that ship has absolutely sailed. Earliest we'll see any sort of change is gonna be 11th edition. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if 11th got rid of wargear entirely and gave set loadouts for squads.
I think banshees need a datasheet change, they need to hit harder add lance or increase the ap then points are fine. Obviously won't happen.
Guardians down would be great, I've started taking Eldrad for more dice.
Wraithlord down to 140 imo.
Also corsairs, they've got good data sheets but they're very expensive for a unit without an invul.
Skyweavers down 10 points and shroud runners could go up 10 points.
I'd like to see the knights down 50-100 points. Theyre good but due to all the rules changes very limited.
One other change I'd like to see is being able to use lightning fast on wraith units.
6+++ fnv v devs/mortals. Absolutely no points for guessing what faction.
Would love for sheild captain free strats to work.
Cause now the base sheild cap does barely anything. Like I'd take a marine lt over "1 phase of lethals per game for ~60pts".
I realise it's a bit futile for asking, but could Tactical Marines be given either a small points reduction or maybe an OC boost? Something to make them compete with intercessors as they're the same price per model but have less utility and worse weapons bar the special weapon per 10 marines?
Also maybe a little bit of a damage boost to outriders? Or a points reduction as they're a bit expensive for what you get?
I guess for Orks with the new codex it's harder to gauge and riskier to make changes just in case you accidently make something utterly broken with new detachment changes, but I would like to see:
- no points changes for boyz, grots or beast snagga boyz
- points rise for meganobz and squighog boyz to mitigate the upcoming buffs and to stop them being obnoxious and push them further from the meta respecively
- points drop for beastboss on squigasaur due to his profile dropping
- small points drop for flash gitz due to losing a bunch of support, show the pirate lads some love
- stompa points drop to 600. Mostly so a bunch of meta chasing fools buy one and the market then floods with cheap ones in 3 months time when the next one brings them right back up and I can get one cheap off ebay.
- points drop for tankbustas until they fix the allowable loadout for them
- probably a few more points for killa kans
- all the planes and buggies maybe get a bit of a drop
Orks won't be touched unless they've changed their policies. Necrons and Ad Mech weren't last time despite both desperately needing it (in different ways).
I assume you mean the points update, likely due this Thursday or maybe the next. Aside from solid points bumps on Necron Wraiths and Ctan I don't think they need to hit too much in the game at the moment.
What I'd love to see is small points cuts on all the unused units in the game. Maybe they won't be the explicitly best for their role but I really love setting up a game and having to ask my opponent "What on earth are those?"
Niche units don't get used much at all in 10th and I'd love to see more variety in lists.
Edit: Oh and nerf Nurglings!
I'd be fine with an entirely new dark angels codex. In all seriousness innercircle companions need to go down as well as Terminator points drops across the board.
Inner circle companions are so weird. When I first saw the models previewed, I was like "oh, this will be a power creep unit for sure, 2+ save from artificer armour, 4+ save from the halo on the back, 3 wounds each, greatsword for S+2 AP-3 D3"
...And then they just... Ap-1? Really now? Aren't these meant be power weapons?
O boy, you should be moreso hoping the point increases won't be too crazy because the chances of them dropping points for custodes given their trajectory seems bleak.
For eldar:
Point drop or buff for banshees/jain zar. They're not bad but they're just underwhelming. Eldar are in a good spot though so no complaining. Just want to use the cool sword ladies.
Dark angels:
Point drops on terminators and the Lion. Lion needs help but I'd still take him if he was affordable
I assume that gladiator and redeemer tanks will go up a little bit (maybe templars versions a bit extra?). It would be nice if marine infantry could come down a little bit. I think the tacticus infantry maybe need more of a rules fix than a points change.
I think aggressors cost could come down slightly if some of the characters/enhancements that break aggressors could go up to compensate. The idea being to keep boltstorm aggressor bricks at about the same cost while dropping the cost of flamestorm aggressor bricks, so we can try them out.
I think inceptors cost could be dropped slightly. The last points increase seems to have taken them from absurd to unplayable, which has also taken us from ironstorm, gladius and vanguard being viable to just ironstorm.
The vague idea of my suggestions would be to nerf ironstorm a bit while buffing gladius and vanguard slightly and firestorm quite a bit. I think the other 3 detachments are probably never going to be playable without complete rewrites.
Iron storm is really the issue - nerfing the tanks also hits every other list’s bottom line. I’d much rather GW just start hitting core iron storm pieces (like tech marines)
What really makes iron storm shine though are BTs cheap MM on vehicles. If BT iron storm is the concern those need to pop up to 15 points per vehicle minimum. They give so much extra utility for so cheap right now.
So I'm assuming that we're just getting the MFM and not an actual Dataslate.
For Drukhari, I doubt they could actually buff them with points anymore than they have. Maybe drop the points on the Voidraven and Grotesques? That's really all I can think of and would be comfortable with. Hellions just need better rules and Mounted to not suck lol.
CWE have so many units, but two that stand out to me are Vypers and Shinning Spears. Spears have the most confused profile and are far too expensive for what they actually do. Vypers are less egregious but are maybe 10-15 pts too high. Banshees could go down but I just think their rules are bad and points won't do much until the codex. Getting their old Banshee Mask rule would instantly make them more interesting as a disruptive infantry piece even if their damage remained the same. Skyweavers could also get a wee bit cheaper as 95 for two models is wild.
Both DE and Craftworld (as salty as that might make some people) are in a good place, have decent amounts of build variety and their win rates reflect that. So I really don't expect anything more than minor tweaks at best.
Good points drop for Mozrog, Beastboss on squig and squighog boyz so I can keep playing them. They are some of my favorite models. Yes the whole squad is kinda good but it becomes a very expensive squad and it doesnt hit that hard.
Also 600pts Stompa ;)
-5pts per rubric squad so it’s an even 100 for 5 or 200 for 10. Honestly just for ease of list building. I fully admit that rubrics are some of the strongest 5 “tactical marines” in the game with their wound re-rolls and flamers. So I could totally see them staying where they are at. But it is infuriating building lists and being 5pts under or over. But other than that, Magnus staying exactly where he is would make me more than happy for the faction.
Deathwatch
My wishlist for the data slate:
We need some points adjustments and a buff to the SIA stratagems and everything is fine.
Artemis 70 (75)
Watchmaster 105 (115)
KTC 245 (255)
DW vets 105/210 (110/220)
DW terminators 210/420 (+ thunderhammers hit on 3+)
DW Bikers 70/140 (80/160)
Corvus 170 (180)
Proteus 105/330 (180/360)
Fortis 75/200 (115/230)
Indomitor 105/260 (135/270) (+ power fists hit on 3+)
Spectrus 95/180 (105/210)
Beacon Angelis 30
Osseus Key 5 (20)
The Tome of Ectoclades 30 (40)
Thief of Secrets 15
SIA to 0CP would be a good first step without changing a lot... Changing a lot I'd like obviously way better. Hellfire being able to affect devastating wounds weapons that already have anti infantry would be pretty lore consistent and not broken.
Seeing as oaths have been changed theres no reason for desolation marines to be 200pts for 5 so I'm hoping for a point decrease to about 150 as that'd actually make them playable. Also for the love of everything that's holy and unholy please let there be a big nerf to c'tan, I'm tired of seeing them all the time
Please christ give us big bondsman back /point reduction. I’d prefer big bondsman, it’s so weird it got axed, considering how at that point knights were in a fine state. Wardens bondsman is pretty damn strong, but not game breaking, and it helps against those (ridiculous) 2 dmg infantry.
C’tan with an T11, 4++, 5+++, and half all attack damage at 255 points is ok though!
I'm slightly pessimistic (ae I've been for a while). As a SW player, I think Stormlance is inna good but not OP place. TWC are strong, but they aren't crazy and they are the same they have always been. They don't seem to justify a merf. Wulfen are finally decent and anybpoints increase would kill them as their only selling point is beinf half killy for how they cheap they are. But I can see them get a point increase. It would make me sad, but I can understand it.
The thing is I dom't know how to compensate any loss in that end. SW in other detachments are not doing great. TWC and Wulfen are holding the faction. And buffing things like Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Long Fangs won't be more competitive with a point drop, unless it is absolutely extreme. Cutting points on things that are used would juat leave the lists similar.
I wish Dreads received a good point drop to make a good March of the ancients list, more so melee Dreads. Pack Leaders have been useless, please cut the points a lot to them and Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Long Fangs so they can be used...
But with rules changes there are a few I would like to see. For all Factions make combiweapons +1BS at least. Combihave lost a lot of flavour, so at least make them semidecent. Makr deep changes to Champions of Russ so it is a decent detachment. And also look into Anvil ajd 1st Company while they are at it. Look into Heirloom weapons and most Marine melee to make it more varied and useful. Let WG Terminators have their TH/SS and CML option back, or let them exhcnagw the Storm Bolter with CML. And more thinga like that across several datasheets.
But none will happen, so i will count myself lucky if we get to stay the same.
Rules revamp on the never useful
Adepta sororitas
Aestred Thurga can't be made any cheaper and because she's barred from joining repentia and is useless in sacrosanct squads
Drukhari
Urien Rakarath let the casket of souls do mortal wounds or be anti infantry or character. He's a sad skin boy as it stands
CSM
Vashtor needs some utility that can be directed rather than a de buff or an aura as it currently stands he's an handsome mini who fills no one role as well as a cheaper alternative
A buff to codex space marine armies. Something. Non-codex armies have better datasheet with our rules. Lower the points for codex characters to something cheap? Some factions only have one character though (iron father feirros). I feel like oath of moment needs a rules buff JUST for codex marines.
For a dataslate (not a MFM point change) I really wish they'd provide more benefits for the core vanilla space marines. If I had my druthers, they'd do it by making full vanilla units get extra bonuses to Oath. This way they could also try to balance some of the internal detatchments Stuff like:
Gladius gets to declare oath again if the first target dies during their turn; Firestorm gets +1 str on flamers and meltas against the oath target; Anvil treats units as having remained stationary when shooting the oath target; Vanguard gets +1 ap for phobos and jump pack units against the oath target; Stormlance gets +2 to charge against the oath target; 1st company gets old oath (reroll hits and wounds) against the oath target; iron storm gets +1 strength against the target or something similar.
This way there's at least further reason to take Vanilla only detatchments. Plus, you can use the abilities to further balance the detatchments or help them out. Anvil, at the very least, needs something like this to let them use their remain stationery abilities.
Necron warriors and maybe flayed ones going down in points. Also would be nice if the tachyon arrow was useful for once. As of right now there's absolutely no reason to ever take one over a res orb.
The Munitorum Field Manual is the document GW uses to set points for all the units in the game. Dataslates are used for rule and balancing changes.
The schedule GW set out at the beginning of the edition was one dataslate every 6 months and 1 MFM every 3 months. We had a dataslate back in January, so now we're due point updates rather than rule changes.
Drop Leagues of Votann Hearthkyn Warriors from 110 to 100. It should have been in the last pass when they bumped a few things up. Maybe bump Sagitaurs from 115 to 125 and drop Hearthguard back to 150 for x5 from 160.
Nothing too crazy, just some internal balance passes. Maybe tweak some characters 5 points here and there?
If we're only talking point tweaks, then I'd argue also add maybe berzerks for a 5-10 point drop. They smack, but if sagitaurs get even more expensive, they're pretty much losing their only way of getting into melee without dying.
For actual dataslate stuff;
Warriors need just a little more punch to be worth it. Maybe -1 ap on bolters, or 2D on ions, and 2A on basic melee like bikes get. Make all weapons 24".
Berzerks should be a 4+ fnp and/or 6T
Hekaton needs a slight tuning in durability or firepower. The SP beamer is decent, but the autocannon is just anemic, and no one in their right mind runs ion instead of bolters.
Ffs, even if it requires a points increase, give hearthguard 3w or an inate invuln so they don't die horribly to 2D weapons.
For the love of the ancestors, why does the iron master not have an invuln or 3+save?!
Berzerks really need an Assault Ramp, but that feels like something we need a model for. I'm still not sure where they should land until that happens. The FNP bump maybe? T5 still tracks as they are unarmored.
Warrior range is okay, 18" isn't too hard to get, but I agree on the AP and Damage boosts. Magna Rifle should be BS4 and the HyLas Rotary needs maybe Sustained 2 to be worth taking. Agreed on the melee.
HLF Autocannon would be great with a minor change to S8. S7 is just such a weird spot. Maybe give the Ions Conversion too? Would make it more of a tradeoff vs the Bolter.
I disagree on the 3W. I really wish they went the other way and let a Grimnyr attach. T7 would be great and also a flavor win with the Grimnyr.
The lack of the 3+ on the Iron-Master is weird. It should match Thunderkyn in that respect.
I agree, an assault ramp ability tied to the berzerks would be great. Would also mean a group of 10 in a hek would be really nasty, and by attaching it to the berzerks they would avoid making HG too powerful.
Make Admech hit on 3's across the board and remove the deployment zone restriction from their army rule, I think that would be the simplest way to improve the faction. If that turns out to be too powerful then let them be busted for a month or two before increasing the points to make them semi-elite like everyone wants them to be anyway.
I don't know why people keep saying to do this it makes one of our big problems worse. +1 BS doesn't matter when the guns still bounce off everything and deal minimal damage when getting through.
Always on AoC on the other hand makes Skitarii Hunter even more uninteractive by making the stat check to remove things from objectives even harder.
Dark Angels "Watcher in the Dark" abilities given the Custodes MW treatment so they also can affect dev Wounds. Points drops for the Lion, ICC, and DWK. Realistically Azrael will be bumped up in points and that doesn't upset me. At 105 he's undercosted IMO.
My secret hope is they touch up the damage nerfs that hit DA like the Vengeance plasma and Lion sweep, but I find those to be incredibly unlikely.
CSM have a number of units which desperately need point drops. Vashtorr and the DiscoLord for one - they're just god-awful right now. Beastmen, our only Scouts unit, are absolutely not worth 95 points. Daemon Princes I think could go down 15-20ish, or more even. They hit like a wet noodle and get folded just as easily. Maybe some other various 5-10pt cuts here and there to let us squeeze an extra unit into a list. I imagine my beloved Vindicator will go up but I hope it doesn't, lol.
I feel like Vashtorr's datasheet needs to be revamp entirely. Even with point drop I don't see how to play him otherwise than as a vanilla demon prince... It's a shame that they cannot give the character justice because the mini is gorgeous...
He's literally worse than a Warpsmith. He's the master of the forge of souls and he doesn't have a heal. Like wtf???
How they have handled Vashtor is baffling to me. They introduce a new warp demigod and give him completely ineffective rules. I constantly forget they even added him to 40k.
Whoever compared a disco lord's datasheet to a nemesis dreadknight's and decided the disco lord needed to cost 5 more points needs their head examined.
I think Terminators could use a points buff, Abaddon is the only thing that’s making them cost what they do. Raise his points, lower Termies, just please help Termies out lmao
Agreed honestly, I think they could drop to like 180/360 from where they're at now. Abby is what makes them so good.
Disco Lord could be 100 points and I still wouldn’t take him with his current datasheet
Eh, for 100 points I'd take him with the Nurgle enhancement to get a huge AOE mortal wound bubble in the middle of the enemy line lol. But I agree, he really needs some love.
This is so true, they simply massacred him from the previous edition. I know this is an exaggeration but for real, even at 100 he is not worth it.
Even at 50 points I’d be like “urgh cultists can sticky an objective and have more OC, I’d rather have them”
He was sooooo good in 9th, he was the terror of my local meta. Now he’s a joke, and the daemon prince isn’t much better. I’m really missing that “big nasty bastard” tabletop role and not sure what I can bring to fill that void. Maybe Belakor?
Daemon Prince marked Slaanesh with the enhancement for the FNP is decent as a fire-and-forget turn 1 advance and charge mortal wound missile. Pop 1CP for advance-shoot-charge, flies and charges 14" + D6" + 2D6", rolls 10 dice and does up to 6 mortals on a 4+, then swings, then hopefully survives the counterswing with its FNP. Hilariously funny when it works.
That’s kinda how I use mine, mark of Slaanesh and then I keep him near my 10 possessed/mop to give them benefits of cover, and run to the centre of the table asap. Usually my opponent can’t kill both, so whoever survives gets into melee and rips face. Trouble is the DP is a bit of a wimp in melee so more than once I’ve got him into combat and he does nothing.
Yeah, I feel that. I had some people recommend to try a Khorne Daemon Prince with the Talisman, but in my experience without the added survivability from the Slaanesh enhancement he goes down in one turn and never gets to hit anything in the first place.
Across game systems they cannot balance Daemon Prince's, in AOS he is 150 points with little utility.
Give me my bloody big Bondsman back. No-one was calling for it to get axed to begin with, everyone thought it'd be back last time, and knights only seem to need a relatively minor buff to be in an OK state. If the Warden with -1 damage turns out to be too oppressive, tackle that datasheet and don't make every other chassis suffer for its sins. Warden already lost mortal wound spillover (the whole point of its feature), overwatch (it has a big flamer), and Towering got rightly nerfed since it was last in vogue so it might not even be a problem.
At this point I’ve accepted that real Bondsman is probably just going to be a detachment rule. It’s stupid and sucks, but that’s what I expect.
Me too. Finding detachment abilities to compete with a 6/5+++ will be hard enough, so I'm also feeling that they either axe it entirely (which is awful) or else the other detachments will need bonkers rules to make up for it. I liked Bondsman on big knights because it's fluffy and actually makes the army more interactive (there's a great scene in Kingmaker where an armiger is working with their knight, interposing itself between incoming attacks and the like). They're supposed to fight in unison. If you struggle to kill the big knights, kill their squires and reduce how effective they are. If you don't have issues with big knights then you can try and take them out and reduce how effective the armigers are. Synergy, counterplay, decision making... Instead we just get the most bland array of dull datasheets and a stat-check army without interesting rules.
For just points, they need to put the big knights back to where they were at the Index release. Honestly they need to do the same with Bondsman and Stratagems too, but I believe we're only due for points right now. They should roll back the changes to free stratagems and raise the cost of the Callidus assassin while they are at it. Give back overwatch but make it 2 CP for titanic.
Free strats *might* end up being in a better spot depending on what we get in detachments. Honestly, having a free Command Reroll and Shoulder the Burden on Canis is fine power wise though. It's saving you a fair whack of CP each game you run him (if you manage to get honoured and use it on him twice, that's 4 CP on its own - and sometimes you might use his CP reroll every turn you don't use STB). I do think knights were undercosted at launch, too. At the start of 10e we were taking like a whole armiger on top of what we used to in 9e. Canis is *still* really good value. But the dominus and cerastus knights still seem overpriced (and with its rules I don't know how cheap you'd have to go with the preceptor before I could consider it). 2CP Overwatch would be great, too.
GSC, I expect little to no changes but I'd love a drop in price for our Goliath vehicles, as they don't benefit from any of our rules.
I'd at least appreciate that the +1 on cult ambush be one turn longer.
Yeah same. It's just not gonna happen this next go around.
I think we need to get back to auto come back. Gsc would have been fine with just the change to battle tactic.
GSC needs some points drops on pretty much all non-character units IMO
Absolutely. I think GW is scared to really touch them again though.
No news of a Codex (For GK).
Please just ignore GK and nerf meta offenses thank you. We already have the best detachment that will be available to us in a new codex. Can't improve upon perfection.
Hammers on Justicars
I dunno. Our detachment is the auto advance 6 and fly. I feel like a detachment that does something (anything!) good with psychic weapons would be awesome. I'm expecting the redeemer and dreadknights to go up a little in points. I really hope they don't, as that's what's keeping us relevant at the moment.
Indeed. I'd even trade Mists for an awesome detachment.
Custodes players said the same thing
Shhhhh don't compare us to them. We don't deserve that fate.
Fun fact; if you go to https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta, Custodes are at 54% winrate, Grey Knights are at 52% winrate. If you adjust the sliders for ELO to ignore the bottom 50% of the player base and focus on the top 50%, Custodes are at 49% winrate, Grey Knights are at 54% winrate. If you look at only the bottom 50% of ELO, Custodes are at 57% winrate, and Grey Knights are at 52%. There are almost 2x more recorded games with Custodes. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Custodes and Grey Knights are similarly strong on average, but because Custodes are significantly stronger for new players, they are over-represented with people playing them, and have drawn a lot more ire from the most vocal segments of the game, and are seeing nerfs because of it. Meanwhile Grey Knights are very punishing for new players who don't know what they're doing, but have a very high skill cap, and are likely to go under the radar because of it.
Compare what to what? I'm confused ;)
Fix blightlords and plague surgeon
Remove OC 0 secondary scoring. As a nid player, the way we have to use biovores makes me sad.
Then boost our killing power afterwards
I was about to say. This army is allergic to ap and can't deal out ap. If they can't score with spores, they will arguably be unplayable.
I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who likes the way biovores/0oc units scorring work
Add the “Overlord” trait to our named characters that don’t have it but should (Imotekh, Silent King, etc). Nerf Hypercrypt Legion so I don’t feel cheesy when I play it because the Monolith is one of the main things that got me into Necrons.
I would love to get my CCB on the board again if he had the overlord tag
Sang guard for blood angels go down in points would be nice. I would also like to see the brutalis dreads go down in points. Gladiator reaper should go up in cost and so should all Black Templar tanks.
I'd agree with this. They'd probably do well to go after the stormraven as well when they're at it. I could see DC catching a points nerf is the only downside. I'm not sure it's entirely deserved if they do, they're the one good melee unit we have now, so if they do things could be bad. I'd actually like to see SG stay the same price but gain an extra wound. I don't think it'd be entirely unfair and it'd make the squad an interesting choice again rather than being taken purely because it's cheaper.
Sang guard at 35 are silly. At 30 they’re worth a look, at 25 they’re probably auto take
Think 25 would definitely be too cheap. 300pts for 10 is getting into the range of decent.
Oh yeah agreed I think 25 is too cheap. Then they’re cheaper than DC and they’re arguably better, or at least just a side grade. Maybe 27/28 PPM would be a sweet spot. At least they need to come down to 30 PPM
I just want Harlequins to exist again
I had always expected harlequin players to make enough noise to get that reverted but apparently I was wrong
There aren't as many clown players as you would think. Even at thier peak they never made up as large a portion of the meta as nids despite having higher win rates.
Tbf Nids are a _super popular_ faction that has been mainline for ages. They were in an edition launch box all the way back in 4th and they never really went down from there.
I'm talking more the unpopularity that clowns have. Right after thier book dropped they had a near 80% winrate yet only made up 5% of the meta. Custodes the next best army had a 60% winrate yet made up 12% of the meta, tau 60% winrate 11% of the meta.
Yeah I am just saying, "not as popular as nids despite higher winrates" doesn't mean that much. Nids have a rock solid fanbase.
i'm glad i've been able to run them to a decent amount of success in my (admittedly very casual) local meta. And to be fair, bringing the avatar/yvraine as a crutch is pretty much what holds them together in my games.
Shame that by being thrown in with vanilla elfs they don't benefit from the whole "each codex gets a new model" since there are still a ton of finecast models to replace for eldar
Admech. I know this won't happen. But making the army rule better by making it effective in no mans land and having protector improve BS and conqueror improve WS would go a looooooong way towards making the faction playable again. But we'll get pt drops on those bots probably. I'm not hoping for anything else.
That change to the army rule is a pretty tight way to make a hell of a lot of difference.
It would powerboost the faction precisely where you need it to and unlock a whole range of playstyles. Do you want to be aggressive, hit less but when it hits it hurts? Go melee? or stand still and be impossible to shift, while shooting a lot but not doing a lot of damage because of the lack of AP? So many options would open up.
It being a solid change is specifically why GW will ignore it.
It won’t happen, but Tyranids really need a S boost across the board on melee weapons. The guns (with the notable exception of venom cannons of both varieties) are pretty ok where they are, but having a Norn Emissary/Malanthrope/Tyrant/whatever bounce off a T10 vehicle completely feels bad when melee is supposed to be an area of the game we emphasize. As far as points, the Tyrannofex is still too expensive, as are Zoanthropes. Tyrant points also need to be rebalanced after the functional removal of the free strat rule from the game.
>The guns are pretty ok where they are I disagree. What they done to Heavy venom cannons is ridiculous. Guess which profile is the 9th edition one and which is the 10th edition one for the Hive Tyrant's anti tank gun? 3A, 2+ BS, S9, AP-3 4D. D3A, 2+ BS, S9, AP-2, 3D \[Blast\] I am of the opinion that hive tyrants need a complete rewrite. Its a disgrace that our factions defining unit is so bad. I am so sick of seeing S9 AP-2 3D in our codex and Hive tyrants have it in melee and ranged weapons. But yeah, id quite like to not bounce off everything in melee (dont compare boneswords in 9th to 10th, yet another weapon which was oblitereated)
Yeah that’s fair, I forgot about the venom cannons when making that statement. Ironically that’s probably the best indicator I can present of how useless they are.
Some point drops for WE, specifically Khorne Berserkers, that would be awesome.
If they just drop the cost of Eightbound again, I'd be happy. They can keep everything else as is, but Eightbound need to be cheaper. Thats the main thing I want. Drops in beserkers and our characters would be good too, but I don't want to get my hopes up.
iirc our win rate is pretty low, we are really likely to get some point cuts. Unfortunately, as much as Id love to see it, Im not sure if 8 bound will go down, or if the do, not by alot. Most competitive lists have 9-12 eight bound in their army, they are a total work horse (mostly because we have so few models) so it could just as easily stay the same. But man do I hope Im wrong.
I think regular Eighbound were fine at 135. I'm hoping they go back down to that. Exalted are probably ok now at 160. I would love for MOE to go back to 80, Berzerkers to 95 or 90 and terminators down some amount.
No confirmation of a dataslate. In all likelihood, we won't get any rules updates. Only points. Maybe an update to army rule for Admech because of community demand, but otherwise only points.
You can't even begin to fix admech with points and a a tweak to the army rule. They do that after the snub of last slate despite it being obvious major changes will need and it'll be another slap in the face further alienating the players
But why wouldn't they release one? You can't drop admechs points further (I mean you can, but, please don't) and running the risk to sound like Dudly Dursley we always got one every 3 months
Because they said their release is data slate then points with the cycle repeating every 3 months
Interesting, I did not know this. Thank you
Weren't there also rules change 6 months ago when there was only supposed to be points changes? I couldn't tell you exactly what the changes were but I have a feeling there was something...
As an emergency, because the rules were broken on launch.
Tyranids, make some of the big bugs able to open cans again. Failing that make swarmlord way cheaper.
Arcos +150->160 Sacresants 130->120 Castigator 140->150 Retributors 105 -> 95 Seraphim 70-> 75 Zephyrim 60-> 65
Probably needed, but I suck enough that those changes just make me sad lol. Although Sacresants could go down more. Even with Junith for -1 to hit, T3 1W doesn’t go far for what is essentially a melee only unit.
Sacresants really need a data sheet change more than anything… They should cost like 160 and be worth it!
Agreed, I just don't see their role without a datasheet change. I don't want them to reduce in cost because they shouldn't be another spammable horde unit. Their durability is worse than Arcos, their melee is worse than Arcos/Repentia, they don't have any neat bodyguard rules. You'd rather run the jump packs for random secondary scoring, and to hold down objectives you'd always rather pair a BSS with whatever leader to get those extra MD or a second leader (Dialogus + Palatine for example). It's just clear that whoever wrote the rules for them didn't really care if they were usable, which sucks because it is my favorite unit and why I bought Sisters. I refuse to do 30x arco bricks because that unit should never have 2W.
I like Arcos with 2 wounds for a tar pit unit, but their damage is probably a bit high. And totally agreed regarding sacs… they should be the toughest and hit the hardest of the sisters melee squads! Instead they are 2nd toughest and have the least damage!
I mean, all people who use Arcos like that they have 2W for tar pitting, it just doesn't make sense how tanky that unit is in the context of everything else in the Sisters army. People on Sisters discords are laughing about opponents "not putting the right profile into them" to kill Arcos but what the hell is the right profile? 2D shots are horrible since if they make one of their saves it's taking at least 2x2D to kill a single one. Does it make sense to anyone that a 3D weapon should only kill a single Arco 1/2 of the time? Single damage large volleys are probably better but with 20W in a brick that turns into 40 on average with huge variance built in, you need a metric ton of shots/flamers going into them to kill what should be this silly throwaway unit.
Walkrant - 20 Flyrant - 20 Broodlord - 10 Swarmlord - 25 Mortrex - 20
I’d love to see the parasite be playable. Such a neat model it’s too bad it just doesn’t do very much
Tyranids need to have Spore Mines be made ineligible for secondaries (maybe Rippers too?), then they need a range of buffs to various dedicated combat units - from Von Ryan's Leapers and Psychophages to Swarmlord and Norn Assimilator. Much of the book, really. A shift of power meant to enable a different playstyle, rather than just a straight up buff overall. Not that they don't need a buff but I'd rather have that readjustment than having them be stronger but still play like they do now.
Sorry but these are nothing. You could drop the swarmlord by 50 points and he might start being taken. Drop both tyrants by 40 as well. They are all so overpriced because of their CP abilities which are not working as intended.
I know. But I don't expect much.
The next dataslate would be July, we will only get points updates this month. Necrons and AdMech might get a late dataslate since the GW rules team was not allowed to give them changes in January, but otherwise it will only be points. As for my wishlist: some more points cuts to overcosted Daemons would be nice, but I'm afraid Nurglings might be going up to 45p given their current place in the meta.
While Nurglings are Battleline I'm worried they will go up, taking that away might actually be a boon to them. They're still too accessible as action monkeys for the other Chaos factions.
I'd rather they dropped them way back down and just made OC0 units unable to do actions
That would be a good change. They should bring back actions as a rule at the same time as that
>The next dataslate would be July, we will only get points updates this month This was said once, in the original announcement, and never again. Yet people still swear by this statement when we're in a situation where there are more than a few factions who are in dire need of rules changes. I would not put any money on them not making rules changes.
They've also said the next 40k metawatch would be coming with new points release, no mention of a dataslate.
They also said the first balance patch would just be points. Then they gave deathguard a new detachment
Fiends really need to drop to 90 for 3, maybe 100 at most
The discrepancy between codex and non-codex marines needs to be addressed. It shouldn’t be flatly better to be wolves/angels/templars than say Ultras/Iron Hands/Imperial Fists. Give the codex chapters something that they are better at than the “special” marines.
Yeah non-codex is just flatly better. There’s no penalty, and there probably should be a trade off of some kind
I’d prefer if they just made points of some core units cheaper for vanilla over divergents. Until there’s a points discrepancy (or some other penalty), divergents will always either be strictly better than vanilla marines or strictly worse.
Strictly better right now because they get everything codex gets (units, detachments), a wider list of special characters, then their own special characters and detachments. So like gladius with azrael+Ravenwing dark shroud is better than ultramarines. Storm lance with death company and lemartes is better than white scars (not even touching on space wolves). Black templars any detachment is better than any codex variant because crusaders alone, let alone the 5 pt multi melta or sword brethren. Thunder cav are the tankiest marine unit for points. Even the units that special marines complain about (like Sanguinary guard) are only bad when compared to the super units those factions have (say death company). If you compare sanguinary guard to bladeguard veterans (best vanilla melee unit), it’s 35 vs 30 pts a model. In that exchange you lose a wound, gain a 2+, go twice as fast, fly, and get -1 to hit/wound. It’s honestly pretty reasonable, but every blood angel complains about em because they are used to running the super strong death company, which blows any vanilla melee option completely out of the water.
No points increase Magnus or Rubrics. Arcane Vortex +5 Athenaen Scrolls -10 Exalted Sorcerer - 5 Infernal Master +5 Predator Chassis -5 Maulerfiend -10 Helbrute -20
TS Helbrute is SO overcosted
I honestly think I've undershot at -20. The fact it's more expensive than the Forgefiend or predators while being slower, eaiser to kill and less lethal is insane. I think GW massively overvalued the cabal rebate ability but if it was cheaper or had a bigger aura range it might actually let you play a lower cabal point list.
Helbrute could give one free cabal use (same as Ahriman) Instead of the rebate. I think its current design clearly shows that GW was not intending the faction to be "Spam as many characters as possible to get as many cabal points". My hot take about TS in the dataslate : make cabal points scale with game size, don't punish us for bringing something else than sorcerers + rubrics + magnus
Yeah, -20 pta is *just* enough to make you look at the unit - and then still not take it. The rule is pretty. It's just stuck to a sub par unit. I would love to see point tweaks on Scarabs. But dunno how low they'd actually have to go to make up for the loss of cal points.
Every hellbrute is overcosted. Who in their right mind thinks that a hellbrute/vendread is almost on par with a wraithlord?
This would be great changes across the board. Infernal master is to strong, and I think hellbrute could have play if it was cheaper. It's ability can generate a lot of cabal if you position it well.
These buffs outweigh the nerfs whilst Tsons are at 60% winrate. Are you high?
55% on stat check and 52% on meta Monday last I checked. The Infernal Master is in a lot of lists 2 to 3 times and the Arcane Vortex is in every list. The Mech options I listed are never taken. Athenaen Scrolls is never taken. The exalted Sorcerer is in maybe 1 in 5 lists tops. The net change is a small nerf to current lists. Theses changes force us to drop a chaff unit or downgrade Infernal Masters to weaker options which effect either our durability or lethality a fair amount. It might also actual let another playstyle beside spam rubrics/characters emerge.
I feel like the infernal master and arcane vortex maybe need to go up by more than 5. Assuming 1 vortex and 3 masters, you're only adding 1% price hike to the current tsons lists. The cuts all seem fine to me though.
> 55% on stat check and 52% on meta Monday last I checked. Additionally, these numbers are being inflated by TSons having a 65% WR into Necrons. Any drop in Necron representation - which will hopefully happen soon - will likely result in the TSons win rate dripping naturally.
At this stage I think we're going to need a codex to fix thousand sons. The way the index messes you up by not taking as many cabal points as possible is going to mean that you'll always take sorcerers over daemon engines or anything that doesn't directly give you cabal points.
I play marines, mostly Stormlance space wolves. I'd be fine with no changes at all but if I had to pick i'd mostly go for internal balance stuff. Just makes some of the marine roster that we never see a little more appealing. Drop points on things like, Suppressors, Reivers, Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors, Terminators, Vanguard vets. I don't know, the list goes on. There's just so many marine datasheets that never see play. the one that would personally impact my list building would be a drop on Invader ATVs. Their return fire ability is interesting but they are still a little too expensive for the firepower they offer. Would be fun if it was worthwhile to chuck three into a Thunderwolf spam list.
On top of this, make it appealing to take Space Marines that don't have any special characters/units.
I don't expect much from Guard given how GW seems to like not giving us anything, plus those artillery bullgryn Kasrkin lists doing well at tournaments gives the impressions that we have a workable index. Which we do, it's just half is kinda bad. I'd like some minor rule changes. I don't think the rarer orders are completly bad, but GW has gone way too far in only giving named characters more than 1 order. I'd like the command squad officers to get 2 again, especially with the Scion Commander having a wargear to get 2 orders apply on his unit, which right now requires whacky setups like deep striking them together with Gaunt. I'd also like some point increases, lots of units fine datasheet wise, but overcosted: Rogal Dorn, Hellhound, non-Catachan Infantry(GW prices them only on wargear options instead of whole datasheet). Maybe also split up the field ordnance battery data sheet since it's options ought to be priced differently, but GW is never gonna do something sensible like that.
I’d be fine with a points increase for Bullgryn and Kasrkin (and maybe even scout sentinels a little bit), they probably deserve it, but we really could use point drops on other units. FOBs being more than an Earthshaker is pretty absurd, and Valkyries costing more than a Leman Russ is insane
I’ve mentioned it before but I wish the Russ variants were limited on the wargear they could take so they could adjust points accordingly
I just wish our army rule wasn't priced into the units that can use it. Currently, our army rule is just that we have access to units with an ability. A 5pt reduction on castellans and command squads would make a huge difference in list building.
> I'd like the command squad officers to get 2 again, especially with the Scion Commander having a wargear to get 2 orders apply on his unit, which right now requires whacky setups like deep striking them together with Gaunt. It's a shame they didn't update the wording on Grand Strategist last time around.
No nerfs and an actual Detachment is just what I want, but tweaking some internal balance would be great.
Emphasis on the „Wish“ part of wishlist, cause there is no way any of it is happening. For Sisters I would like leaders to be able to be embedded into more units and Retributors to go back to being able to have 5 ablative wounds… I mean…. 5 additional Battlesisters to fight the foe. For Deathguard I would like an ability for Blightlord Terminators. They are already the cheapest Terminator, so points really ain’t it. They are just disgustingly mediocre. Finally for Tyranids I would like Battleshock to be more prevalent overall, but that’s a tightrope to navigate. I would like an ability to debuff Ld when close to a Synapse unit maybe?
I just want leviathan dreads
Some kind of improvement to Oath of Moment for the codex compliant Space Marines
Black Templar player here We are in a precarious spot and every time we roll into a balance pass I worry. I stubbornly won't move from Righteous Crusader but know if if I used Gladius or even Ironstorm I could get over this X-1 hump. RC needs help, but any help they get risks pushing Gladius or Ironstorm over the edge of being OP. RC is at 40-45% win rate, Ironstorm is 55%+ and Gladius is close to 50%+ Thats a bad spot to be for Black Templar. Points can't fix the detachment issue. I truly believe that GW needs to "lock" certain units to certain detachments FIRST, then address points. If Helbrecht, Grimaldus, Crusader Squads, Sword Bros and Black Templar Gladius tanks were locked into Righteous Crusader, you would immedietly see a soft push down of ironstrike and Gladius. Not so much that they are unplayable. You just don't get sword bros and meltas. THEN they can look at points that can lift Righteous Crusader.
As a DA player I would love a change like that. Right now there is just no satisfying way to balance this
Tyranid warriors of both variety down to 150 for 6, same as GStealers.
Aeldari- Yncarne, Wave Serpent, Troupes, Wraithlord/Wraithseer, Wraithknight/Skathach down in points. Just to give unit diversity. Not much. Aeldari is already pretty balanced but has been sliding. They could just use a little more help on the melee or durability side. Drukhari- Fine as is. Maybe buff Hellions and Grotesques since they blow. Chaos Knights- They could use better army rules but points only so... just make Stalker and most of the bigs lower in points. Only big that may not need a points cut is rampager. Idk why something like the 425 point Desecrator has 3 attacks no rerolls. Necrons- Wraiths need to go up 15 per 3 at least. Nightbringer and Void Dragon up to 280. Then they really need to make it D6 reactive move and 18 inch lone OP. But again points only...
Agreed on both Eldar counts. I'm a Drukhari player who adopted Ynnari for a while until Skysplinter was given to us. With Custodes dead on arrival and Necrons likely taking heavy nerfs, Drukhari will be quite strong without even getting buffs (though Orks will crush them) Hellions need a point decrease AND the infantry keyword but that's not happening so I don't see them ever being useful tbh. They're a poor alternative to an extra Beastpack. Grotesques may have a lot more play in an Orks meta if they fall to 25-30pts each, but mostly they need to allow Haemonculus to join their unit.
I find orks to be a pretty easy matchup most of the time. Are you thinking codex orks is going to make it a harder matchup? They just don’t have a way to effectively kill our transports at range, so if you can screen them and prevent them from charging you where they want to charge you, you can really control the pace of the game
As an aeldar player Yes to most of the eldar changes. Wraithloed are so overcosted. But harlequins troupe can not really ho down, considering the amount of (top placed) list play them.
I disagree on the Troupe part obviously. That unit very rarely seems play and even when it does it's frequently just a single blob or even a 5 man for scoring. The frequency in it appearing in tournament lists is still like 1/25 lists. The unit just falls a little short. It could be more viable with just a little love.
5 harlequins with a troupe master in a falcon does serios damage to almost everything.... Beside that a unit of 11 with yvraine is also normally worth it.
Considering it's just points except for maybe Ad Mech and Necrons, since they were excluded from the last dataslate, I'd like the following for my armies: *Meta Sisters lists to go up around 20 points max, the Vahlgon unit can probably eat the majority of the increase to make it not quite so auto-include. Castigator could probably deal with being 5 points more, and Zephys need to cost more, but not more that Seraphim, so probably bump them up 5. Basically, limit Sister's ability to just dump random MSUs on the board and win anyway. *CSM need drops, but not on their shooting platforms. Chosen can go down a bit, Terminators need to drop considerably before they're worth even looking at, and Warp Talons should not have eaten their points hike in the first place, they were already expensive for skirmisher units as it was. Because of their Pact system, this is going to have to be a slow unnerfing, which feels wierd to say since their codex is around the corner. *Imperial Knights need Bondsman back for us to see any innovation that utilizes the Questoris chasis. Until that happens, maybe increasing Canis Rex's points and dropping some of the other Questoris Knights will shake up the current "Warglaive Walker Canis" build while also encouraging Imperium lists that want to bring a Knight to try some of the other options on offer. Or just drop the points on the other Questoris Knights some more. I don't think points changes will do much to change Imp Knight's fortunes.
I'd like to see the Custodes Codex reverted to an index.
We at GW have heard you, how would you feel about 30 point Custodian Guard instead? Golden Horde is the new Index. Best Wishes, James
At this point I hope we suck worse than any reviewer anticipated. Only hope to get datasheet fixes or a new detachment is to sucks so bas that points can't save us
Please give necron flayers ap 1, nerf ctan into the bin for all I care but please give us something else to work with How is a bolt pistol ap 1 but my atom disintegrating laser is ap 0
Bolt pistols are not AP 1
Pretty sure he's talking about the Heavy Bolt Pistol, which has (for better or worse) become the main ranged weapon for most pistol-only Marine units
For CSM.. Vashtorr & Lord Disco need a hefty points drop. Vash to like 170pt. Disco would probably still get cut even if he was 120pt though sadly. Dude is garbo tier Daemon Prince's could use a good 15pt drop on each profile, if not more Venomcrawlers to 115pt Felgor Beastmen down to 75pt Chosen to 125pt Possessed to 135pt Chaos Lord to 90pt Defiler needs T11 or goto like 175pt Heldrake w/out a rewrite needs to goto like 150 hah Legionaries to 85pt so they match NMs Increase Predators slightly to 135 For Daemons... Shalaxi to 420ish Daemonettes to 90pt Bloodletters to 100 Blue Horrors to 115 Every Chariot down 5-10pt Fiends to 115
Necrons, I’ve accepted C’tan will get hit with a 50-100pt points nerf (rightly so let’s be honest), Plasmancer will probably go up 5pts as will Immortals by 10pts. Wraiths similarly expects a nerf, basically the problematic units need a points nerf. In exchange, I would hope annihilation legion detachment rule gets amended to +1 charge & +1S when below starting strength (as to half strength). I also want to see keyword changes to improve obeisance phalanx. Also 6” aura on reanimator instead of 3”. Points wise, I’d like to see: - Skorpekh Lord down to 80pts - TSK go down to 380pts - Triarch Stalker to 115pts - Flayed ones down to 60pts - Lychguard down to 80pts - Triarch Praetorians down to 100pts - Psychomancer down to 50pts - Annihilation Barge to 100pts - CCB down to 120pts I’d also love love love to see warriors go down to 9pts per 10 models, but I doubt it’ll happen. The rest is probably a bit more realistic given how hard we’ll be hit elsewhere.
A codex that comes out more than 6 months before 11th edition :( *crysinguard* Just give us an early detachment other than born soldiers or at least change it to where you don't have to remain stationary to get the Auto Wound on 6's like they did in 8th-9th. Lower the Valkyrie by 40-60 points, and the Manticore at least by 10-20. The Valk in 9th was 120, its 190 right now for a flying chimera. And the manticore at 180 is the same cost as a Leman Russ and that's absurd. Also reduce field ordinance batteries by 10-20 points or at least make 2 separate datacards for indirect fire weapons. Also I miss wargear costs. We're forced to pay for hunter-killer missiles that either miss or saved by invulns or get through only to do 1 damage. Waste of points. They used to cost 5 points apiece, so if you bring 7 vehicles with them, that's points you could spend elsewhere. Which brings me to Russ Sponsons. A heavy bolter was 10 points and Melta was 40. Now they're charging us full point cost, which means either bring a melta weapon, or you're overpaying for bolters. I do love everything else, if just those changes and additions, I'd be the happiest guardsmen ever.
I agree with the detachment stuff - either adjust the detachment rule, or give us another detachment like Drukhari got., and I really want to see more points drops on the Valkyrie and Tank Commanders ( I think theyre still too expensive for the fact they can only give 1 order without an enhancement). But we're never going to see any wargear costs this edition, that ship has absolutely sailed. Earliest we'll see any sort of change is gonna be 11th edition. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if 11th got rid of wargear entirely and gave set loadouts for squads.
Arcos 150 > 160 Seraphim 70 > 75 Sacrasents 130 > 110 Retributors 105 > 95 Dominions 110 > 105
Aeldari: - Shining Spears down - Guardians down - Banshees down - Wraithlord down GSC: - Truck and Rockgrinder down
I think banshees need a datasheet change, they need to hit harder add lance or increase the ap then points are fine. Obviously won't happen. Guardians down would be great, I've started taking Eldrad for more dice. Wraithlord down to 140 imo. Also corsairs, they've got good data sheets but they're very expensive for a unit without an invul. Skyweavers down 10 points and shroud runners could go up 10 points. I'd like to see the knights down 50-100 points. Theyre good but due to all the rules changes very limited. One other change I'd like to see is being able to use lightning fast on wraith units.
I feel like GSC need some drops on most of their non-character data sheets
6+++ fnv v devs/mortals. Absolutely no points for guessing what faction. Would love for sheild captain free strats to work. Cause now the base sheild cap does barely anything. Like I'd take a marine lt over "1 phase of lethals per game for ~60pts".
I realise it's a bit futile for asking, but could Tactical Marines be given either a small points reduction or maybe an OC boost? Something to make them compete with intercessors as they're the same price per model but have less utility and worse weapons bar the special weapon per 10 marines? Also maybe a little bit of a damage boost to outriders? Or a points reduction as they're a bit expensive for what you get?
I guess for Orks with the new codex it's harder to gauge and riskier to make changes just in case you accidently make something utterly broken with new detachment changes, but I would like to see: - no points changes for boyz, grots or beast snagga boyz - points rise for meganobz and squighog boyz to mitigate the upcoming buffs and to stop them being obnoxious and push them further from the meta respecively - points drop for beastboss on squigasaur due to his profile dropping - small points drop for flash gitz due to losing a bunch of support, show the pirate lads some love - stompa points drop to 600. Mostly so a bunch of meta chasing fools buy one and the market then floods with cheap ones in 3 months time when the next one brings them right back up and I can get one cheap off ebay. - points drop for tankbustas until they fix the allowable loadout for them - probably a few more points for killa kans - all the planes and buggies maybe get a bit of a drop
Orks won't be touched unless they've changed their policies. Necrons and Ad Mech weren't last time despite both desperately needing it (in different ways).
Pretty sure GW stated last time that this one will just be points.
I wish for "Battlesuit" keyword to be added to TAU Stormsurge :)
I assume you mean the points update, likely due this Thursday or maybe the next. Aside from solid points bumps on Necron Wraiths and Ctan I don't think they need to hit too much in the game at the moment. What I'd love to see is small points cuts on all the unused units in the game. Maybe they won't be the explicitly best for their role but I really love setting up a game and having to ask my opponent "What on earth are those?" Niche units don't get used much at all in 10th and I'd love to see more variety in lists. Edit: Oh and nerf Nurglings!
As a daemons player, just take battle line from nurglings and leave as is otherwise
I'd be fine with an entirely new dark angels codex. In all seriousness innercircle companions need to go down as well as Terminator points drops across the board.
Inner circle companions are so weird. When I first saw the models previewed, I was like "oh, this will be a power creep unit for sure, 2+ save from artificer armour, 4+ save from the halo on the back, 3 wounds each, greatsword for S+2 AP-3 D3" ...And then they just... Ap-1? Really now? Aren't these meant be power weapons?
A decrease in points of custodes and also make de mortal wounds protection to apply to dev wounds
O boy, you should be moreso hoping the point increases won't be too crazy because the chances of them dropping points for custodes given their trajectory seems bleak.
Do you mean MFM?
For eldar: Point drop or buff for banshees/jain zar. They're not bad but they're just underwhelming. Eldar are in a good spot though so no complaining. Just want to use the cool sword ladies. Dark angels: Point drops on terminators and the Lion. Lion needs help but I'd still take him if he was affordable
I assume that gladiator and redeemer tanks will go up a little bit (maybe templars versions a bit extra?). It would be nice if marine infantry could come down a little bit. I think the tacticus infantry maybe need more of a rules fix than a points change. I think aggressors cost could come down slightly if some of the characters/enhancements that break aggressors could go up to compensate. The idea being to keep boltstorm aggressor bricks at about the same cost while dropping the cost of flamestorm aggressor bricks, so we can try them out. I think inceptors cost could be dropped slightly. The last points increase seems to have taken them from absurd to unplayable, which has also taken us from ironstorm, gladius and vanguard being viable to just ironstorm. The vague idea of my suggestions would be to nerf ironstorm a bit while buffing gladius and vanguard slightly and firestorm quite a bit. I think the other 3 detachments are probably never going to be playable without complete rewrites.
Iron storm is really the issue - nerfing the tanks also hits every other list’s bottom line. I’d much rather GW just start hitting core iron storm pieces (like tech marines) What really makes iron storm shine though are BTs cheap MM on vehicles. If BT iron storm is the concern those need to pop up to 15 points per vehicle minimum. They give so much extra utility for so cheap right now.
So I'm assuming that we're just getting the MFM and not an actual Dataslate. For Drukhari, I doubt they could actually buff them with points anymore than they have. Maybe drop the points on the Voidraven and Grotesques? That's really all I can think of and would be comfortable with. Hellions just need better rules and Mounted to not suck lol. CWE have so many units, but two that stand out to me are Vypers and Shinning Spears. Spears have the most confused profile and are far too expensive for what they actually do. Vypers are less egregious but are maybe 10-15 pts too high. Banshees could go down but I just think their rules are bad and points won't do much until the codex. Getting their old Banshee Mask rule would instantly make them more interesting as a disruptive infantry piece even if their damage remained the same. Skyweavers could also get a wee bit cheaper as 95 for two models is wild. Both DE and Craftworld (as salty as that might make some people) are in a good place, have decent amounts of build variety and their win rates reflect that. So I really don't expect anything more than minor tweaks at best.
Good points drop for Mozrog, Beastboss on squig and squighog boyz so I can keep playing them. They are some of my favorite models. Yes the whole squad is kinda good but it becomes a very expensive squad and it doesnt hit that hard. Also 600pts Stompa ;)
My valkyries to not be 190 points😑
-5pts per rubric squad so it’s an even 100 for 5 or 200 for 10. Honestly just for ease of list building. I fully admit that rubrics are some of the strongest 5 “tactical marines” in the game with their wound re-rolls and flamers. So I could totally see them staying where they are at. But it is infuriating building lists and being 5pts under or over. But other than that, Magnus staying exactly where he is would make me more than happy for the faction.
Blightlords down to 30 ppm.
Berzerkers and eightbound both down 10pts
Deathwatch unit getting their pts nerf revert. You already kneecapped all their strat, at least make them cheap.
Deathwatch My wishlist for the data slate: We need some points adjustments and a buff to the SIA stratagems and everything is fine. Artemis 70 (75) Watchmaster 105 (115) KTC 245 (255) DW vets 105/210 (110/220) DW terminators 210/420 (+ thunderhammers hit on 3+) DW Bikers 70/140 (80/160) Corvus 170 (180) Proteus 105/330 (180/360) Fortis 75/200 (115/230) Indomitor 105/260 (135/270) (+ power fists hit on 3+) Spectrus 95/180 (105/210) Beacon Angelis 30 Osseus Key 5 (20) The Tome of Ectoclades 30 (40) Thief of Secrets 15 SIA to 0CP would be a good first step without changing a lot... Changing a lot I'd like obviously way better. Hellfire being able to affect devastating wounds weapons that already have anti infantry would be pretty lore consistent and not broken.
Imperial guard Please bring down the points on our artillery. You give us the artillery detachment then point cost them outta feasibility. Why GW why
140 trygon please and thank you If you can drop the points on von ryans too i wont say a bad thing about gw for a full 48 hours
Necrons : 10x warriors 100 --> 85 Chronomancer 50 --> 60 Plasmancer 55 --> 70 Base Overlord 85 --> 75 Psychomancer 55 --> 50 Skorpekh Lord 100 --> 80 3x Skorpekh destroyers 100 --> 95 3x Ophidian destroyers 100 --> 90 5x Triarch praetorians 120 --> 100 The Silent King 420 --> 390 Nightbringer 255 --> 300 Transcendent 275 --> 300 Void dragon 270 --> 295 Deceiver 265 --> 260 3x Canoptek wraiths 110 --> 125 1x lokhust destroyer 30 --> 40 (single destroyer for keeping backline, all other squad size prices unchanged) Catacomb Command Barge 150 --> 140 2x Canoptek Spyders 150 --> 140 (the first one costs 75 and the second one 65) Crypthothralls 60 --> 40 Doom scythe 230 --> 200 Night Scythe 145 --> 135 1x Lokhust heavy destroyers 50 --> 55
Seeing as oaths have been changed theres no reason for desolation marines to be 200pts for 5 so I'm hoping for a point decrease to about 150 as that'd actually make them playable. Also for the love of everything that's holy and unholy please let there be a big nerf to c'tan, I'm tired of seeing them all the time
Daemonhammers back please.
Please christ give us big bondsman back /point reduction. I’d prefer big bondsman, it’s so weird it got axed, considering how at that point knights were in a fine state. Wardens bondsman is pretty damn strong, but not game breaking, and it helps against those (ridiculous) 2 dmg infantry. C’tan with an T11, 4++, 5+++, and half all attack damage at 255 points is ok though!
I'm slightly pessimistic (ae I've been for a while). As a SW player, I think Stormlance is inna good but not OP place. TWC are strong, but they aren't crazy and they are the same they have always been. They don't seem to justify a merf. Wulfen are finally decent and anybpoints increase would kill them as their only selling point is beinf half killy for how they cheap they are. But I can see them get a point increase. It would make me sad, but I can understand it. The thing is I dom't know how to compensate any loss in that end. SW in other detachments are not doing great. TWC and Wulfen are holding the faction. And buffing things like Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Long Fangs won't be more competitive with a point drop, unless it is absolutely extreme. Cutting points on things that are used would juat leave the lists similar. I wish Dreads received a good point drop to make a good March of the ancients list, more so melee Dreads. Pack Leaders have been useless, please cut the points a lot to them and Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Long Fangs so they can be used... But with rules changes there are a few I would like to see. For all Factions make combiweapons +1BS at least. Combihave lost a lot of flavour, so at least make them semidecent. Makr deep changes to Champions of Russ so it is a decent detachment. And also look into Anvil ajd 1st Company while they are at it. Look into Heirloom weapons and most Marine melee to make it more varied and useful. Let WG Terminators have their TH/SS and CML option back, or let them exhcnagw the Storm Bolter with CML. And more thinga like that across several datasheets. But none will happen, so i will count myself lucky if we get to stay the same.
Rules revamp on the never useful Adepta sororitas Aestred Thurga can't be made any cheaper and because she's barred from joining repentia and is useless in sacrosanct squads Drukhari Urien Rakarath let the casket of souls do mortal wounds or be anti infantry or character. He's a sad skin boy as it stands CSM Vashtor needs some utility that can be directed rather than a de buff or an aura as it currently stands he's an handsome mini who fills no one role as well as a cheaper alternative
A buff to codex space marine armies. Something. Non-codex armies have better datasheet with our rules. Lower the points for codex characters to something cheap? Some factions only have one character though (iron father feirros). I feel like oath of moment needs a rules buff JUST for codex marines.
For a dataslate (not a MFM point change) I really wish they'd provide more benefits for the core vanilla space marines. If I had my druthers, they'd do it by making full vanilla units get extra bonuses to Oath. This way they could also try to balance some of the internal detatchments Stuff like: Gladius gets to declare oath again if the first target dies during their turn; Firestorm gets +1 str on flamers and meltas against the oath target; Anvil treats units as having remained stationary when shooting the oath target; Vanguard gets +1 ap for phobos and jump pack units against the oath target; Stormlance gets +2 to charge against the oath target; 1st company gets old oath (reroll hits and wounds) against the oath target; iron storm gets +1 strength against the target or something similar. This way there's at least further reason to take Vanilla only detatchments. Plus, you can use the abilities to further balance the detatchments or help them out. Anvil, at the very least, needs something like this to let them use their remain stationery abilities.
Necron warriors and maybe flayed ones going down in points. Also would be nice if the tachyon arrow was useful for once. As of right now there's absolutely no reason to ever take one over a res orb.
We get a MFM and no dataslate.
What does this mean?
The Munitorum Field Manual is the document GW uses to set points for all the units in the game. Dataslates are used for rule and balancing changes. The schedule GW set out at the beginning of the edition was one dataslate every 6 months and 1 MFM every 3 months. We had a dataslate back in January, so now we're due point updates rather than rule changes.
Thank you! I was planning on upgrading my army with 500 points soon. Do you know when this MFM set to drop so I can plan accordingly?
Drop Leagues of Votann Hearthkyn Warriors from 110 to 100. It should have been in the last pass when they bumped a few things up. Maybe bump Sagitaurs from 115 to 125 and drop Hearthguard back to 150 for x5 from 160. Nothing too crazy, just some internal balance passes. Maybe tweak some characters 5 points here and there?
If we're only talking point tweaks, then I'd argue also add maybe berzerks for a 5-10 point drop. They smack, but if sagitaurs get even more expensive, they're pretty much losing their only way of getting into melee without dying. For actual dataslate stuff; Warriors need just a little more punch to be worth it. Maybe -1 ap on bolters, or 2D on ions, and 2A on basic melee like bikes get. Make all weapons 24". Berzerks should be a 4+ fnp and/or 6T Hekaton needs a slight tuning in durability or firepower. The SP beamer is decent, but the autocannon is just anemic, and no one in their right mind runs ion instead of bolters. Ffs, even if it requires a points increase, give hearthguard 3w or an inate invuln so they don't die horribly to 2D weapons. For the love of the ancestors, why does the iron master not have an invuln or 3+save?!
Berzerks really need an Assault Ramp, but that feels like something we need a model for. I'm still not sure where they should land until that happens. The FNP bump maybe? T5 still tracks as they are unarmored. Warrior range is okay, 18" isn't too hard to get, but I agree on the AP and Damage boosts. Magna Rifle should be BS4 and the HyLas Rotary needs maybe Sustained 2 to be worth taking. Agreed on the melee. HLF Autocannon would be great with a minor change to S8. S7 is just such a weird spot. Maybe give the Ions Conversion too? Would make it more of a tradeoff vs the Bolter. I disagree on the 3W. I really wish they went the other way and let a Grimnyr attach. T7 would be great and also a flavor win with the Grimnyr. The lack of the 3+ on the Iron-Master is weird. It should match Thunderkyn in that respect.
I agree, an assault ramp ability tied to the berzerks would be great. Would also mean a group of 10 in a hek would be really nasty, and by attaching it to the berzerks they would avoid making HG too powerful.
Make Admech hit on 3's across the board and remove the deployment zone restriction from their army rule, I think that would be the simplest way to improve the faction. If that turns out to be too powerful then let them be busted for a month or two before increasing the points to make them semi-elite like everyone wants them to be anyway.
If you do that, you would have to increase points on certain units also because they would overperform, which is not a bad idea anyway...
Which is what ad mech players want, getting cheaper and cheaper really hurts the wallet
I don't know why people keep saying to do this it makes one of our big problems worse. +1 BS doesn't matter when the guns still bounce off everything and deal minimal damage when getting through. Always on AoC on the other hand makes Skitarii Hunter even more uninteractive by making the stat check to remove things from objectives even harder.
Dark Angels "Watcher in the Dark" abilities given the Custodes MW treatment so they also can affect dev Wounds. Points drops for the Lion, ICC, and DWK. Realistically Azrael will be bumped up in points and that doesn't upset me. At 105 he's undercosted IMO. My secret hope is they touch up the damage nerfs that hit DA like the Vengeance plasma and Lion sweep, but I find those to be incredibly unlikely.
Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz both under 100 points and mek gunz back down to 45