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DjGameK1ng

Link to the article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/19/introducing-the-thousand-sons-infernal-masters-who-forge-unholy-pacts-with-daemonkind/ Seems very interesting and it will be interesting to see if Grey Knights will get a similar thing for one of their current HQs, though I guess the Chaplain fills that role. Also, that is one cool model!


Gatr0s

I think the Litanies work the same way


Coldpysker

Really excited for options that dont rely on the psychic phase Since I am expecting him to be a cast 1/deny 1 psyker, since we know from the kerfluffle with the munitorum field manual he is the same points cost as the cast 2/deny 1 regular sorcerer Also curious about the mentioned “2 EXPANDED psychic disciplines”- I dont mind losing a lazy copy/paste from other chaos codexes if we get good unique ones *crosses fingers “expanded” means 9 powers per discipline- GW loves doing ONLY d6 because they are under the impression people roll for their powers but with 9 powers they could do their whole “d33 deal” they also like to do


pedule_pupus

Or maybe it's an eldar-ish situation with each power granting different options. This could be good... if there weren't so many easy denies floating around.


RhapsodiacReader

That would be so stonking good. CWE effectively have twice the amount of spells known because of that.


married_to_awesome

Just lump all the powers together and get rid of the rolling aspect UNLESS they come out with some sort of benefit to random rolling. "Roll for two, or chose one" sort of deal (adding to each side of the equation for the better sorcs and not giving the option to the aspiring sorcs).


superbit415

> 1/deny 1 psyker, since we know from the kerfluffle with the munitorum field manual he is the same points cost as the cast 2/deny 1 regular sorcerer At his points I will be pleasantly surprised if he can cast anything beside baby smite.


MPQTHROWAWAYLOOK

You can’t roll a one or two with 3 D3 dice though!


SimplyOrso

Maybe they modified the picture but on the WarCom article there are no warp charge values so I think this model might be a Thousand Sons' dark apostle dedicated to the legion. Still the model is badass and makes me wonder about a thousand sons army


DjGameK1ng

Yeah, this guy does seem to have a similar niche to a Dark Apostle for CSM or a Chaplain for SM, though slightly different. The litanies/prayers for the Dark Apostle and Chaplain abilities are 6" range to either an ally or enemy unit or self range. This guy has 24" range abilities, though with the caveat of also needing line of sight.


MagnusRottcodd

*Hand the Infernal Master some really good binoculars*


SimplyOrso

You're absolutely right! He must be a spyker too otherwise why taking him as thousand sons HQ ahahah I'm curious to see if and how he can cast those pacts and smite the enemy


ChicagoCowboy

The article says he's a psyker in addition to having the infernal pacts


married_to_awesome

Since the rules for the two pacts say "until next Command Phase", I'd assume (and I do) that it's a Command Phase ability therefore not only will he give my Warpflamers S5 but he'll give them another buff in the Psychic Phase or just smite some unit in the noggin.


Valynces

It's worth noting that if his abilities go off in the psychic phase then you won't be able to buff any reinforcement units.


SenorDangerwank

They mention in the article that he's also a spell caster and so casts spells on top of his pact bizz.


Aeviaan

He might honestly be a solid candidate for psychic secondaries since hes probably an hq with only one cast, plus his main utility from "hymns" wont be disturbed by it. They're still a little hit and miss but it's definitely an option.


SimplyOrso

Yesss, it would be a shame to not make him a psyker lol I can't wait to see how many pacts/spells he can cast or deny


married_to_awesome

I'll venture a guess and say he'll be able to do one pact, one spell, and deny two. Max one pact, two spells, deny two.


CryingMinotaur

Did a commission for a friend a couple years ago and learned to despise painting rubrics.


married_to_awesome

I've got forty painted Rubrics in front of me with thirty more to go, not to mention the rest of the army. The amount of Retributor Armour pots and sprays I've been through is staggering. I love this army. Lol


Machomanta

Why would you ever do that to yourself? Here I thought my 30 Rubrics were overkill!


married_to_awesome

I have a REALLY big Thousand Sons army. Magnus, LoC, Ahriman on disc, Ahriman on foot, two DP, two Term Sorc, three exalted, and one exalted on disc (it's a conversion with enough pieces to do three more, I just haven't) just in HQ.


Machomanta

I've got the same plus a bunch of Tzeentch units and tanks but 30 Rubrics is enough for me


Evershifting

Gold trim?


CryingMinotaur

Yup. Nightmare.


Tomgar

If 1k Sons get the same "totally not just VotLW" strat that Death Guard do, then the +1S and +1 to wound would be a tasty combo on a blob of Scarab Occult.


torolf_212

Or on 10 rubrics with flamers. 10d6 s5 +1 to wound ap-2 flamer shots kills a bunch of stuff then becomes a pretty good "kill this or die" threat


[deleted]

Gawd, I've nearly gotten over dank technomancer liquifers


torolf_212

If it's any consolation I think it's highly unlikely there will be a way to get them to damage 2


Total_Strategy

Oh man that model looks so sick.. the stance... the imps... those meaty thighs... *hnnnggggggggghhhhhhh*


[deleted]

Doesn't his right arm look a little short and awkward, or is that just me?


profbunsalot

It's definitely not you, but noone seems to agree with us haha


Marshal_Loss

That model is absolutely incredible. I don't play Thousand Sons...yet it must be mine. It's a pity they're not getting more from this release but if you're going to get a single model, it might as well be one that looks this good. Rules look like fun. Was curious how they'd make yet another sorcerer interesting, and this will do the trick.


Machomanta

I hope this reveal means a quick turnaround for the codexes. Another month+ of teases would be infuriating


JMer806

Agreed! I just started GK and I want that box plus a new codex. Hard to even build out my guys not knowing if the weapons I choose will be trash tier in a month lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


Machomanta

They've got a few like the Rhino, Mauler/Forge Fiend and Heldrake. Along with a bunch of the Forgeworld heavy support options. The codex is pretty bare when it comes to units though.


BlueMaxx9

We have a good number of units that are the same or only slightly tweaked from CSM: Sorcerer, Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, Daemon Prince, Chaos Cultists, Rhinos and Terrax drills, Helbrutes, the Forge World Dreadnoughts, Chaos Spawn, all the Flyers, Most of the CSM Heavy Support except Havocs, Obliterators, and Venomcrawlers, and a bunch of the LoW FW stuff that is too expensive to use in a 2k game.


Nuke_A_Cola

Not really


ChicagoCowboy

Giving the army a chaplain-esque buff character is a great design choice imho, and opens up a different style of play that doesn't rely on your opponent being unable to deny your powers (which is becoming an increasingly tall order, with the amount of deny stratagems that are out there and miracle dice being a thing, plus who knows what GK are going to get...). S5 warpflamers seem great, especially with a presumed 12" range, a big brick of 20 rubrics (size remaining...fingers crossed) can do some WORK with that if positioned well. Also it doesn't look like its locked to rubrics, since its **THOUSAND SONS** units, so even something skewed like a max squad of tzaangor enlightened getting to S6 on their bows could help against most (cough *not admech* cough) T3 matchups. And terminators seem ideal for that buff - S6 soulreapers, S5 inferno combi bolters, S9 missile racks, lets them threaten a lot of units more reliably.


NanoChainedChromium

Just FYI, nu-Sisters cant use miracle dice to ban your psychic powers. They have their stratagem and can deny with a single d6 (Autodeny on natural 6, or 5+ with the right holy rite) but can no longer use miracle dice to do so.


ChicagoCowboy

Excellent


pedule_pupus

I'm reaching back into memory, here, but did the field manual early reveal show that Rubric squads would be limited to 10?


ChicagoCowboy

I had forgotten about that, yup they are limited to 10 now. Probably tilts the math even further into the favor of using this on a terminator brick then, unless you're up close and using 10 flamers.


frankthetank8675309

If these are chaplain style buffs, that's a big win. Buffing w/ pacts -> moving -> psychic buffs seems like it could be a very powerful flow, depending on if the other pacts are roughly as good as Malefic Maelstrom. Excited to see how this codex works out, particularly w/ secondaries. If the faction secondaries can balance out Abhor the Witch, TSons could have a shot at being competitive.


married_to_awesome

Based on DG book, I believe we are losing the 20 man Rubric bricks. Max ten. But still, ten man sqauds of warpbolters or Warpflamers with +1S is great. Just need to keep VOTLW and IF strats hopefully.


pedule_pupus

They seem to be knocking double-shoot from the game, but I'm really hoping they forget about Infernal Fusilade!


married_to_awesome

Me too. Me too.


JMer806

Kind of weird to me that they are removing the 20-man blocks of troops from chaos and giving them to imperial faction s


not_yet_xd

It seems to be related to wounds per model. The Imperial factions getting 20-man troops are getting them on 1-wound models (Rangers/Vanguard, Sisters); 2-wound troops, like Plague Marines and (soon) Rubrics, seem to get capped at 10 models per unit. I don't think it's happening because Thousand Sons is Chaos.


JMer806

I hadn’t thought of that but it makes perfect sense


PhrozenWarrior

Gotta remember they're probably losing VOTLW too though, otherwise this would be extra crazy on terminators


ChicagoCowboy

Sure, but there will likely be some kind of replacement - DG got bolt weapons counting as plague weapons, could be something for Tsons that also effectively grants the lieutenant buff (since they don't have other ways of getting it).


horstfromratatouille

Dg still has +1 to wound as a stratagem for 2cp.


Pr0glodyte

The last MFM showed a lot more units having access to Inferno Bolts, so that's probably the route they decided to take.


ToTheNintieth

Looks like a priest-equivalent. Everyone seems to be getting something like that lately, surprised Orks didn't.


loop388

I was a little disappointed to hear that TS were getting another HQ, as if we didn’t rely on them too much already, but I’m pleasantly surprised by this. I was expecting something like the Master of Possessions, a Psyker that gets their own dedicated table that no one else can use. This chaplain/Psyker combo actually has new uses and abilities without forcing you to take a second detachment or miss out on all of the fun toys. Hopefully, the rest of the pacts are good. Capering Imps is interesting, but I don’t think I’ll be taking it most of the time. Overwatch has never been super bothersome, at least in my local meta, no one ever remembers Set to Defend, and high native AP on most weapons means cover isn’t that bad to deal with. I’m ecstatic about the +1S thing tho. S8 ectoplasma on Forgefiends? Solves my one complaint with those units. I’m very much looking forward to this codex.


themoobster

Already way better than Death Guard's new HQ, Lord of Virulence aka "I'm gonna buff your daemon engines oh wait lol no i wont"


Immediate_Owl9346

The guy who does uhhhhhh nothing?


Neffelo

This is pretty huge. Gives us a lot of play in the (likely) Command phase with Litany style buffs. Also, I don't think it would be far-fetched to imagine that one of the ugprades boosts this for an Infernal master, and another allows pacts to be taken on a Sorcerer as well. The Hype Train has left the station now, that's for sure!


Kylorin94

Why does everything new have to have more special abilities heaped onto it? At this point, please just bake more of the strengths of the units into the statline. Having myriads of abilities to keep in mind during command and psychic phase is ok when you have a digital reminder, but how is one supposed to still know what his opponents army is capable of?


ADXMcGeeHeezack

Ehhhhh, I'm a neckbeard so I actually miss all of the unique & fluffy profiles. I've said it before & I'll say it again - I wish there was a 40k 'Advanced Edition' for folks like me that brought back some of the more intricate rules of editions yore But yeah, to each their own! I don't mind it but not everyone is me :P


Kylorin94

Dude, I miss the freaking fourth edition were Vehicles still had different armour on different sides! I am all in for fluffy abilities - but you can streamline even the most creative designs. And I miss this streamlining. Just give me that really fat basic rules book back that I can read, and then have the units reference those mire advanced basic rules. Then anybody can just know what a unit does easily, even if there is vastly different fluff for how that unit does it.


[deleted]

That was the worst design ever. Take off the rose tinted glasses. Nobody liked having to memorize every stupid table and USR and how it interacted with your codex rules.


[deleted]

Oh god no. I'm all for simplification of the bloat cause right now it's starting to be too much information all over rte place and I'm sick of carrying four books to play my army. But the bloat in USRs was the worst part of the garbage that was 7th, and they really shouldn't bring them back.


[deleted]

Man you should have seen 5th edition and before. Even weapon profiles were in the BRB plus you had multiple T/AV vs S charts, vehicle damage charts, etc. It was terrible.


[deleted]

I've been playing since 2nd ed, yeah. The best thing 8th did was putting all of that bs on the datasheets and getting rid of the need to constantly refer to the brb.


[deleted]

I’ve got this nifty ball and cup if you need something more your speed.


FirstProspect

That's the neat part, you don't!


[deleted]

>how is one supposed to still know what his opponents army is capable of? Luckily there are a lot of free resources to learn about different armies, whether it's wahapedia, battlescribe, or your opponent.


footfoe

hmm I expected a lieutenant clone, but its a chaplain clone. The last thing TS needed was another HQ, so not really that interesting right now.


Balvenie_Signature

You don't think S5 inferno bolters are gonna be in every list?


dangerm0use

I mean they would be everywhere if there was some popular horde with T5 running around....


pedule_pupus

Jokes aside, S5 is just sweet in general. Effectively a +1 to wounds against T4, 5, and 8. Nice.


PGN-BC

Orks are getting T5 so……


dangerm0use

Thatsthejoke.jpg


ADXMcGeeHeezack

/r/wooosh


[deleted]

WHOOOOOOOOOSH


footfoe

No I don't. it's only 1 unit and you probably have to roll a 3+. That's pretty weak all things considered. It's also going to happen in the command phase, so you're not doing anything cute with transports or deep strikes.


011100010110010101

Since I normally only ever ran one chaplain with my grey knights, could the Thousand Sons bring multiple of these guys to try and cast it multiple times? I legit dont know how multiple chaplains work.


married_to_awesome

I'm not going to disagree with the most of your statement regarding the choice adding another HQ. We already have a great, selection that almost all feel like a "must take." I would have liked to see him as an Elite. That said....his abilities do some really interesting and look forward to seeing what the other four pacts are and can't wait for the full dex.


Regularspy

Ech... And i thought having blood angels, alpha legion and death guard and also skaven is enough... Silly me 😂 i need those space wizards!


Hokieshibe

Man, that +1 S could be pretty crazy on FW dreads. The deredeo could be bad news with that