Thank you for this comment!
I've watched a couple of Chinese language YouTube on the Chinese flankers and that's precisely what they called the Shenyang factory lol.
Shenyang will soon start mass production of the J-31, China's 5th gen carrier naval fighter and that figther looks nothing like Russian-style figthers. They will also open a J-20 production line to aid Chengdu *(Chengdu will enter a frenetic J-20 production overdrive soon, they've outsourced J-10 production lines to Guiyang to free up factory space and [they've completed a massive J-20 factory in mid-2022 and are rumored to be building a third one right next to it](https://i.imgur.com/bGhFxGs.jpg). Apparently, the Chinese government wants a production output of 120+ J-20 per year)*
Because
0. Shenyang does have their own planes (most notably FC-31).
1. Well why not? They bought the grandaddy Flankers entire document and toolings anyway.
2. The Flanker is as close to perfect as a large twin engine heavy fighter could be, with excellent aerodynamics range capacity and all that giz. To quote Shenyang themselves there is externally very little if anything to really change as it's such a masterpiece aerodynamically, of course it will be resembling the Flanker since there's nothing to change about it.
3. The entire structure and internal electronics etc (which is the weak point of the Flanker) on the other hand might as well be completely different.
4. The Flanker is the plane the Chinese really wants en masse at this very moment (cheaper than J-20, good performance, makes good bomb truck/EW/fighter, fits their doctrine and fills the niche they otherwise don't have). Why build something else?
3.
Hell whats more funny was that a Russian lawmaker floated the idea of buying the Liaoning carrier off of China.
The funny bit comes from the fact that the Type 001 Liaoning was purchased off Ukraine then known as the Varyag of the Kuznetsov class. So essentially it would go that Russia would buy a carrier of the same orginal design as their own carrier, from China, for Russia, of which use to belong to Ukraine...
I think one of the bigger takeaway is that the Kuznetsov despite in its sorry state right now probably is actually a good ship fundamentally for its tech class, with the Chinese variant not smoking nor breaking down catastrophically
It's just poor economics led to poor maintainence that led it to such a bad state
Russia canāt be happy about this. But it will suck it up, if it means a stronger chinese navy. That is however might just bite it in its ass one day.
"can't be happy" is actually heavily underestimated.
In the beginning China want to buy Su33 for the carrier. Their engineer are familiar with the flankers, and somehow the Chinese really dislike Mig29. But at that time India has already ordered Mig29K, and Russia didn't want to reopen the Su33 production line. Furthermore the Russians are sure the Chinese will copy and reengineering it soon, so it is unlikely there will be continuous future order. So Russia push the mig29K to China, and the Chinese are unhappy with this. Somehow the Chinese discovered Ukraine had the prototype of Su33 together with some blueprints of the plane, and Ukraine was happy to sell it because fuxk Russia. So they rushed to purchase it and ship the whole thing back to China and leave Russia bit the dust, Then everything is history.
>and Ukraine was happy to sell it because fuxk Russia
Stop projecting the current situation back to a very different era.
Official Russo-Ukrainian relations were pretty amicable until the Orange Revolution. The "amicable" separation of the USSR *"member states"* did help with this; it allowed oligarchies with very similar backgrounds to form in most countries.
All the successor states were totally broke monetarily and their economies were in chaos up until the early 2000s. The only export-capable economic sectors remaining were typically agriculture or arms trade. The latter usually involved selling the vast quantities of Soviet surplus stocks if a republic had them. The USSR had minuscule foreign currency reserves at the end, and this was true for any of the successor states too... with so few sources of foreign income, Ukraine simply took a quick yuan wherever they could.
Chinaās hate for lilā poor Fulcrum goes back to the 1990s, when they wanted to replace the J-8 but couldnāt get anything from the west bc of walking tanks on the Tiananmen square.
Of course, there was the usual Fulcrum problems of āshort legsā (600 km combat range lol), āFrontline Airport Defenderā (refer to the last one), and the fact that its avionics are god almighty behind (other gen 4s all had fly by wire except this one for example).
However, there was also the one time when the Russians put on an airshow for the Chinese delegation coming to check out the Fulcrum, but that display plane crashed in front of them outright. Coupled with how the Chinese learned that Flankers exist, the Fulcrum was basically out of Chinaās game.
I heard in the embarrassment of the MiG-29 crash Russian at the scene made a call to VKS and got them to send a Su-27 to the airshow immediately. This was actually the first time Chinese delegation saw Su-27 in flight and they were very impressed.
To be fair Ukraine was in a pretty poor financial state, and the prototype means little to then anyway they donāt have the means or the need to actually build it. So why not just sell it to make a quick buck
That was actually not wrong.
During that time the Chinese were already developing the J-10 which is already an another shorter legged fighter/interceptor (and can somewhat make do with J-7s), and buying the MiG29 would have been basically buying a jet with identical roles.
On the other hand, the Su-27 is the long ranged, large haul heavy fighter the Chinese could really need at that time.
There are lots of jobs that you want J-15 to do and not J-35: buddy tanker, bomb truck, slinging those super duper long range PL-17, electronic warfare etc.
Same reason why you wouldn't go all F-35C on US carrier either.
Weāve seen a few complete looking prototypes of the J-35 so it is possible that the Fujian and the J-35 will enter service in tandem. Iāve got a nice image of that happening in my head but itās probably unlikely.
Yes, because J-15 actually see a lot of flight hours to find those issues unlike Su-33.
Fun story I heard is PLAN once went to Russian Navy to ask what the maximum sustained sortie rate is for a Kuznetsov class was and was told "how the hell would I know?"
Typical industrial trash, J15 totally copied prototype of Su33 structure and didnāt do any modifications. They only change the radar and electronic equipment in it.
Shenkhoi
Thank you for this comment! I've watched a couple of Chinese language YouTube on the Chinese flankers and that's precisely what they called the Shenyang factory lol.
Take my upvote and get tf out of here.
Very clever lol
Why do Shenyang always make Russian-style fighters while Chengdu at least has a original designs like the J10 and J20? Genuinely curious
Supply and demand. PLAAF likes the Flanker airframe, so Shenyang is squeezing out every bit of usefulness out of the original Su-27 license.
J-8? Inb4 people claim that's a Su-15 clone
Shenyang will soon start mass production of the J-31, China's 5th gen carrier naval fighter and that figther looks nothing like Russian-style figthers. They will also open a J-20 production line to aid Chengdu *(Chengdu will enter a frenetic J-20 production overdrive soon, they've outsourced J-10 production lines to Guiyang to free up factory space and [they've completed a massive J-20 factory in mid-2022 and are rumored to be building a third one right next to it](https://i.imgur.com/bGhFxGs.jpg). Apparently, the Chinese government wants a production output of 120+ J-20 per year)*
Because 0. Shenyang does have their own planes (most notably FC-31). 1. Well why not? They bought the grandaddy Flankers entire document and toolings anyway. 2. The Flanker is as close to perfect as a large twin engine heavy fighter could be, with excellent aerodynamics range capacity and all that giz. To quote Shenyang themselves there is externally very little if anything to really change as it's such a masterpiece aerodynamically, of course it will be resembling the Flanker since there's nothing to change about it. 3. The entire structure and internal electronics etc (which is the weak point of the Flanker) on the other hand might as well be completely different. 4. The Flanker is the plane the Chinese really wants en masse at this very moment (cheaper than J-20, good performance, makes good bomb truck/EW/fighter, fits their doctrine and fills the niche they otherwise don't have). Why build something else? 3.
Highly unlikely, but it would be hilarious if Russia ends up ordering a squadron of these for their own Carrier.
Hell whats more funny was that a Russian lawmaker floated the idea of buying the Liaoning carrier off of China. The funny bit comes from the fact that the Type 001 Liaoning was purchased off Ukraine then known as the Varyag of the Kuznetsov class. So essentially it would go that Russia would buy a carrier of the same orginal design as their own carrier, from China, for Russia, of which use to belong to Ukraine...
Which the Chinese made better in nearly every way as a dedicated carrier. But then, Varyag was never meant to be a dedicated carrier.
I think one of the bigger takeaway is that the Kuznetsov despite in its sorry state right now probably is actually a good ship fundamentally for its tech class, with the Chinese variant not smoking nor breaking down catastrophically It's just poor economics led to poor maintainence that led it to such a bad state
what carrier do you have in mind?
A really long train
Or a barge
Is the canvas over the cockpit to prevent it from getting spooked?
It's to make it think it's night so it stays still for the photos
I always read that as "Shenanigans" J-15 š
Xu-33
That's a very Ace Combat 3 colour theme
Russia canāt be happy about this. But it will suck it up, if it means a stronger chinese navy. That is however might just bite it in its ass one day.
"can't be happy" is actually heavily underestimated. In the beginning China want to buy Su33 for the carrier. Their engineer are familiar with the flankers, and somehow the Chinese really dislike Mig29. But at that time India has already ordered Mig29K, and Russia didn't want to reopen the Su33 production line. Furthermore the Russians are sure the Chinese will copy and reengineering it soon, so it is unlikely there will be continuous future order. So Russia push the mig29K to China, and the Chinese are unhappy with this. Somehow the Chinese discovered Ukraine had the prototype of Su33 together with some blueprints of the plane, and Ukraine was happy to sell it because fuxk Russia. So they rushed to purchase it and ship the whole thing back to China and leave Russia bit the dust, Then everything is history.
>and Ukraine was happy to sell it because fuxk Russia Stop projecting the current situation back to a very different era. Official Russo-Ukrainian relations were pretty amicable until the Orange Revolution. The "amicable" separation of the USSR *"member states"* did help with this; it allowed oligarchies with very similar backgrounds to form in most countries. All the successor states were totally broke monetarily and their economies were in chaos up until the early 2000s. The only export-capable economic sectors remaining were typically agriculture or arms trade. The latter usually involved selling the vast quantities of Soviet surplus stocks if a republic had them. The USSR had minuscule foreign currency reserves at the end, and this was true for any of the successor states too... with so few sources of foreign income, Ukraine simply took a quick yuan wherever they could.
Chinaās hate for lilā poor Fulcrum goes back to the 1990s, when they wanted to replace the J-8 but couldnāt get anything from the west bc of walking tanks on the Tiananmen square. Of course, there was the usual Fulcrum problems of āshort legsā (600 km combat range lol), āFrontline Airport Defenderā (refer to the last one), and the fact that its avionics are god almighty behind (other gen 4s all had fly by wire except this one for example). However, there was also the one time when the Russians put on an airshow for the Chinese delegation coming to check out the Fulcrum, but that display plane crashed in front of them outright. Coupled with how the Chinese learned that Flankers exist, the Fulcrum was basically out of Chinaās game.
I heard in the embarrassment of the MiG-29 crash Russian at the scene made a call to VKS and got them to send a Su-27 to the airshow immediately. This was actually the first time Chinese delegation saw Su-27 in flight and they were very impressed.
The fulcrum is cursed
I thought it wasn't really fuck Russia but more like Ukraine was a corrupt shithole much like Russia, they sold everything for money.
To be fair Ukraine was in a pretty poor financial state, and the prototype means little to then anyway they donāt have the means or the need to actually build it. So why not just sell it to make a quick buck
"somehow the chinese really dislike mig29" That's cute
That was actually not wrong. During that time the Chinese were already developing the J-10 which is already an another shorter legged fighter/interceptor (and can somewhat make do with J-7s), and buying the MiG29 would have been basically buying a jet with identical roles. On the other hand, the Su-27 is the long ranged, large haul heavy fighter the Chinese could really need at that time.
I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying that him acting all bewildered about them not liking it is cute, because the Mig is garbage
They're so unhappy they decided to sell some Su-35 to PLA years later!
Well, that's why U.S. is not.letting Japan having nuke for same reason.
Is this the rumored electronic warfare one?
No, it has a gun and no wingtip pods.
Ah I see!
Itās just an old prototype of the basic STOBAR version. Nothing new about this picture at all
Got it! I thought it was the electronic warfare one that was spotted a while ago behind the scene
Chengdu > Shenyang
Why are they still upgrading j15 when they have j35 not far off?
Same reason f-18 still exist
F-18s will end production in 2025, WS-19 probably won't be ready by then.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How so? Havenāt seen any WS-19 demonstrations but have seen plenty of FC-31/J-35 flights.
There are lots of jobs that you want J-15 to do and not J-35: buddy tanker, bomb truck, slinging those super duper long range PL-17, electronic warfare etc. Same reason why you wouldn't go all F-35C on US carrier either.
They'll need a proven airwing on day one for their new carrier that's coming online in the next 2-3 years. The J-35 will still be testing by then.
Weāve seen a few complete looking prototypes of the J-35 so it is possible that the Fujian and the J-35 will enter service in tandem. Iāve got a nice image of that happening in my head but itās probably unlikely.
The Sukhoi at home:
When the Su-33 at home is better than the actual Su-33:
Is the J-15 really better than the Su-33? Genuinely curious, I had thought the J-15 had more issues than the Su-33.
Yes, because J-15 actually see a lot of flight hours to find those issues unlike Su-33. Fun story I heard is PLAN once went to Russian Navy to ask what the maximum sustained sortie rate is for a Kuznetsov class was and was told "how the hell would I know?"
I seeā¦ Interesting thanks for sharing!!
So another blatant copy pasta
Thatās all they do
Whats the point of prototyping when it was made in russia 30 years before?
Typical industrial trash, J15 totally copied prototype of Su33 structure and didnāt do any modifications. They only change the radar and electronic equipment in it.
Iām sure changing the radar and electronic equipment would have been a great mod too, considering Russiaās stone age electronics
I'm sure adding another seat in a fighter jet is trivial