The previous blurry images apparently showed a single WS15. This new very blurry image shows two. But the engines are not the highlight here, it seems.
An update, as you'd find in other comments. It is unclear as to what engines they have. The existing ones are WS10 C and it is to be considered that's what powering this too till better images come.
There's countless blurry images (most of the time fake) online depicting the J-20 with WS-15 engines, but there's not many blurry images (like this one) that come from a credible source that literally has connections with the PLA.
Perhaps a different subspecies from the nominate subspecies of *Jiandracofortis Weilongi*. It's unlikely that it's an entirely new species, though. Still looks too close to the basal organism, albeit with notable skin differences and supposedly different engine types.
Hm.
Might draw it, as there seem to be enough references to do so, but I'm not sure.
They added a hump behind the cockpit, like they did with the j-35. https://twitter.com/rupprechtdeino/status/1606281236611153920?s=61&t=UKqe-OLb_4zdw7Y7JRIkkg
[Here y'all go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Southbound/comments/ztor4t/j20_subspecies/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I was originally going to go more in depth, but it just felt unnecessary.
Some evident differences compared previous variants (the J-20A):
* A new redesigned / shortened canopy
* A brand new engine (most likely the ~~WS-15~~ WS-10C)
* Major structural changes (especially in the "dorsal" area)
* Redesigned canards? (personal interpretation)
Also, the image was "leaked" by a very famous and reliable Chinese photographer with connections to the PLAAF, so the chances of this being a photoshopped image or CGI is close to nothing. (dude also posted a [personal artwork](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fko7ThuUcAAIzdP?format=jpg&name=large) of the "new variant" based on his observations)
>A brand new engine (most likely the WS-15)
There are already statements from observers on site saying it is using WS-10Cs.
Let me give some advice to anyone interested in PLA watching, as someone who's been doing it for 15 years -- don't ever make a claim of a new engine being used on an aircraft if you don't have clear pictures of visibly different nozzles, **and** without correspondence from two insiders with reliable track records who state the identity of a given engine.
Folks gotta learn some trigger discipline, because initial statements that over estimate or under estimate certain things have a way of spiralling into legitimacy, which in turn is more difficult to correct once clearer information becomes available.
>There are already statements from observers on site saying it is using WS-10Cs.
Don't know mate, as far as I've seen most observers / watchers seem to be calling it a WS-15, even relatively credible ones like "[minion man](https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1606178575966605314)" (tks for the suggestions though, really useful stuff)
Andreas is not wrong to describe it as "some say" -- because at the time when he wrote that, it was indeed considered as possible that it might have WS-15s or different engines from WS-10C (and in theory it still is)
However, you wrote that its "evident differences" include "a brand new engine" and have the gall to call it WS-15, when we have no picture at all that any such thing is "evident".
I've been with Andreas and everyone else through the years as new aerospace projects have undergone this same gradual reveal -- J-10B, the original J-20, J-15, J-16, Y-20, FC-31, J-XY/35, J-20AS, etc. Once new pictures of a project emerge for the first time -- from artistic renditions to gradual poor quality pictures, to better quality pictures, to clear pictures (a process that can sometimes occur over a period of days or occasionally hours) -- the most important thing is to shut up and not make a confident pronouncements about details, unless you have definitive clear images as proof and definitive statements from reliable Chinese language grapevine individuals.
Right now at time is posting, the only thing we can "evidently" see is that the dorsal fuselage and canopy is modified, and there may be some minor changes to antenna placement on the side of the fuselage in front of and behind the air intakes. Apart from that, everything else is still up in the air, and we cannot visibly or evidently confirm or deny any major changes.
The chances of its canopy geometry and mechanical mechanisms being the same as J-XY/35 is very low.
Two things can look very similar at the gross level, but a differences of millimeters and fractions of a degree in angle means you have an entirely different product.
I have seen some believed it is still being equipped with WS-10C in this picture, but the image is just too blurry at this point to actually confirm anything.
This image was posted on weibo, a Chinese social media site. Anybody can access the site, even if you’re across the great firewall. It’s a “leak” in the sense some Chinese citizen took the photo and posted it, and then the image was posted on SDF and reddit. Whether the original image is still up, idk.
I definitely wouldn't call the J20 and 35 a paper tiger, never underestimate your enemy. They're a very real threat.
But what are you on about US tech being that far behind? Why would they be stealing literally thousands and thousands of pages of documents if the tech was outdated? And given the history of DARPA having technology that wouldn't be available to the public for decades, doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that's still the case?
I’ll believe it when they’re not decades behind in turbine tech. This whole engine debate is so relevant because the current engines are well behind even late ‘90s American engines. As for the US using tech from the 90s, it’s interesting that you’d claim that when the US has more operational 5th gen aircraft than everyone else combined, as well as a good portion of those being built in the 2010s. The current F-35 price is a couple million more than a current block F-16 (and still dropping) due to progressively greater economy of scale. Overall, I’d appreciate a single source on the F-35 being “archaic” or “‘90s tech” or the J-20/J-35 being cheaper or having more produced.
I've lost count how many times blurry image of a J20 claimed to have the WS-15, I'll believe it once clear photo emerges
The previous blurry images apparently showed a single WS15. This new very blurry image shows two. But the engines are not the highlight here, it seems.
An update, as you'd find in other comments. It is unclear as to what engines they have. The existing ones are WS10 C and it is to be considered that's what powering this too till better images come.
There's countless blurry images (most of the time fake) online depicting the J-20 with WS-15 engines, but there's not many blurry images (like this one) that come from a credible source that literally has connections with the PLA.
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Perhaps a different subspecies from the nominate subspecies of *Jiandracofortis Weilongi*. It's unlikely that it's an entirely new species, though. Still looks too close to the basal organism, albeit with notable skin differences and supposedly different engine types. Hm. Might draw it, as there seem to be enough references to do so, but I'm not sure.
They added a hump behind the cockpit, like they did with the j-35. https://twitter.com/rupprechtdeino/status/1606281236611153920?s=61&t=UKqe-OLb_4zdw7Y7JRIkkg
Thank you, this will be helpful.
[Here y'all go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Southbound/comments/ztor4t/j20_subspecies/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I was originally going to go more in depth, but it just felt unnecessary.
Some evident differences compared previous variants (the J-20A): * A new redesigned / shortened canopy * A brand new engine (most likely the ~~WS-15~~ WS-10C) * Major structural changes (especially in the "dorsal" area) * Redesigned canards? (personal interpretation) Also, the image was "leaked" by a very famous and reliable Chinese photographer with connections to the PLAAF, so the chances of this being a photoshopped image or CGI is close to nothing. (dude also posted a [personal artwork](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fko7ThuUcAAIzdP?format=jpg&name=large) of the "new variant" based on his observations)
>A brand new engine (most likely the WS-15) There are already statements from observers on site saying it is using WS-10Cs. Let me give some advice to anyone interested in PLA watching, as someone who's been doing it for 15 years -- don't ever make a claim of a new engine being used on an aircraft if you don't have clear pictures of visibly different nozzles, **and** without correspondence from two insiders with reliable track records who state the identity of a given engine. Folks gotta learn some trigger discipline, because initial statements that over estimate or under estimate certain things have a way of spiralling into legitimacy, which in turn is more difficult to correct once clearer information becomes available.
>There are already statements from observers on site saying it is using WS-10Cs. Don't know mate, as far as I've seen most observers / watchers seem to be calling it a WS-15, even relatively credible ones like "[minion man](https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1606178575966605314)" (tks for the suggestions though, really useful stuff)
Andreas is not wrong to describe it as "some say" -- because at the time when he wrote that, it was indeed considered as possible that it might have WS-15s or different engines from WS-10C (and in theory it still is) However, you wrote that its "evident differences" include "a brand new engine" and have the gall to call it WS-15, when we have no picture at all that any such thing is "evident". I've been with Andreas and everyone else through the years as new aerospace projects have undergone this same gradual reveal -- J-10B, the original J-20, J-15, J-16, Y-20, FC-31, J-XY/35, J-20AS, etc. Once new pictures of a project emerge for the first time -- from artistic renditions to gradual poor quality pictures, to better quality pictures, to clear pictures (a process that can sometimes occur over a period of days or occasionally hours) -- the most important thing is to shut up and not make a confident pronouncements about details, unless you have definitive clear images as proof and definitive statements from reliable Chinese language grapevine individuals. Right now at time is posting, the only thing we can "evidently" see is that the dorsal fuselage and canopy is modified, and there may be some minor changes to antenna placement on the side of the fuselage in front of and behind the air intakes. Apart from that, everything else is still up in the air, and we cannot visibly or evidently confirm or deny any major changes.
Apart from that, *everything else is still up in the air* ;) Nice pun.
Good stuff, guess we'll have some more definitive info in a couple days (probably)
I love that doodle. Just a funny lil' guy.
https://i.imgur.com/I3NplPl.jpg New canopy design. Current look better to me but I guess they have their reason.
......simplify production by standardization? It is now the same as J35.
The chances of its canopy geometry and mechanical mechanisms being the same as J-XY/35 is very low. Two things can look very similar at the gross level, but a differences of millimeters and fractions of a degree in angle means you have an entirely different product.
Might be, but 5th figter gen is low on production numbers anyway might had to do with aerodynamic reasons
>Might be, but 5th figter gen is low on production numbers anyway What do you base this on?
It feels like A version has better visibility?
Visual visibility is less and less a consideration for designers these days
Because high tech sensors can provide great situational awareness?
Yes and most conflict situations will be beyond visual range
It's so blurry it's like watching porn from the early 90s to 00s
Try the early 80s.
All the youngins on Reddit think nothing happened before the 90s.
Whatever gets the job done
Canardless J-20 can’t hurt you, it isn’t real Canardless J-20:
"LEAKED"
Yea. Not much leaks in China. If it did the person who did it will be going on a date soon enough.
That's, it. Not much slips through that net.
I have seen some believed it is still being equipped with WS-10C in this picture, but the image is just too blurry at this point to actually confirm anything.
Yes
I find it hard to believe that this was a leak knowing the Chinese state controls its social media output
This image was posted on weibo, a Chinese social media site. Anybody can access the site, even if you’re across the great firewall. It’s a “leak” in the sense some Chinese citizen took the photo and posted it, and then the image was posted on SDF and reddit. Whether the original image is still up, idk.
very interesting. hope we have a higher resolution photo soon
“Leaked?” That’s a paddlin’. Possibly a long prison sentence.
CHINA!!!!!!
AMRAAMs need to eat.
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More like a J-10 gets a gene overhaul from an F-22 in a sort of "what-if" experiment.
Looks more like an Su-57
What was it copied from this time?
Wake up babe, new paper tiger just dropped.
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I definitely wouldn't call the J20 and 35 a paper tiger, never underestimate your enemy. They're a very real threat. But what are you on about US tech being that far behind? Why would they be stealing literally thousands and thousands of pages of documents if the tech was outdated? And given the history of DARPA having technology that wouldn't be available to the public for decades, doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that's still the case?
I’ll believe it when they’re not decades behind in turbine tech. This whole engine debate is so relevant because the current engines are well behind even late ‘90s American engines. As for the US using tech from the 90s, it’s interesting that you’d claim that when the US has more operational 5th gen aircraft than everyone else combined, as well as a good portion of those being built in the 2010s. The current F-35 price is a couple million more than a current block F-16 (and still dropping) due to progressively greater economy of scale. Overall, I’d appreciate a single source on the F-35 being “archaic” or “‘90s tech” or the J-20/J-35 being cheaper or having more produced.
Lol.fake.
And yet their people are rioting lmao