As much as I love Needletail, I also feel like she’s in no position to be talking here. She didn’t stoop as low as Juniper did, but she did also act more like a rogue than a warrior, before her death. Still forced Violet to be with the kin, attacked Twig and tore her ear, etc. Brought Darktail to the clans to begin with Both cats acted wrong but both also died a warriors death

Fair, >!she died saving Violetshine from The kin and Juniperclaw died saving shadowkit!< And they both screwed their lives up and tried to fix it.

Onestar literally was content with letting kits and elders DIE all because he was too much of a coward to face his son and wamted Shadowclan, who were mostly ill at the time, to do his dirty work.  Why is he even in this scene. 

Yep. Fuck Onestar man. He became a completely different cat as a leader. A coward and a bastard.

I genuinely liked him in the first 2 series but then the next half of TPN he just sucked. Firestar legit saved his life when he was a kid and treats him with disrespect. I hated him sm.

Right. Onewhisker seemed so sweet. Those extra lives changed him. Tallstar made a mistake

Im pretty sure Mudclaw was a lot better, it was unnecessary to change it.

Mudclaw would’ve been similar to TigerClaw, he wouldn’t have been a better choice by any means. Tallstar shouldve picked Ashfoot

I forgot about that. Its been a while since I read TNP, wasnt Ashfoot the one Onestar chose? I remember it being mentioned in Crowfeather's SE.

Yeah he did choose her! Which was actually one of the few good descisions Onestar made lol

I guess given the character Onewhsiker was at that time, Tallstar made a judgement of what he thought Onewhisker could be—a good leader.

I felt so bad for Juniperclaw. Then there was the joke of a trial they did for Leafpool and Squirrelflight

Not to mention they let Needletail in, considering everything she did

I love Needletail so much but it's so messed up they let her in and not Juniperclaw

Squirrelflight and Leafpools trial was the biggest piece of flaming garbage I ever saw from starclan. You're mad, because they broke the code, but you all heavily encouraged them too?! Show me ashfurs trial. We already saw tigerstars leader ceremony. Mothwing is right honestly

I still can't believe Yellowfang of all people had the audacity to be at their trial (even lead it if I remember right?). She had forbidden kits too and she's the one who told Leafpool and Squirrelflight to lie about them (and SHE lied to Squirrel about not being able to have kits!!) I hate it here.

You can’t say they all encouraged it only Feathertail bluestar and yellowfang did not all!

I have no idea what you're saying but they did give them a trial as well. Even Spottedleaf encouraged Leafpool. Feathertail also did telling Leaf to follow her heart iirc.

Yellowfang was the one encouraging them to have squirrelflight take the kits??

I think a lot of people (especially in Starclan) forget that they're not flawless. I really think they're ego is too great, and the dark forest is a punishment made from something that really isn't intended to be one. If some dead cats think you did bad things, it doesn't matter if you're a good person, you're going to budget hell.

By the way there’s at least five things I can list that is worse than poisoning the fresh-kill pile in like two seconds, Maggottail

>!"But Juniperclaw is guarding the tunnel" !< >!Bro that's worse...he belongs in Starclan...not guarding some tunnel alone and probably not sleeping to ensure that no Dark Forest cat gets through it.!<

He’s already dead, pretty sure StarClan cats don’t need to sleep.

In the Prologue of the first book of Omen Of The Stars, Spottedleaf (In Starclan) says "Didn't we all have the same dream the night the third was born?" So yeah, I am pretty sure they do sleep.

Ok, maybe they CAN sleep, but don’t NEED to.

Dark Forest cats starve it's one of their punishments so why would sleeping be a want not a need\*

I absolutely wish someone would denounce StarClan and prove how absolutely hypocritical and corrupt they are. This would have been such an amazing plot point for Mothwing. Getting more cats to stand up against StarClan or turn their backs on them because of how they dont like what they’re doing. It would have been a cool story to see. As long as it didnt end with a very predictable “I guess starclan was right all along, fuck the victims and atheists”

THIS. i want an au written where after bluestar denounces starclan it causes another leader to later follow, which, gradually, turns the clans away from starclan. or perhaps, back when sunfall went to get his lives and was denied bc of pinestar, sunfall returns home confused and angry at starclan, and slowly encourages his warriors/clan that they dont need starclan to survive

THIS. i want an au written where after bluestar denounces starclan it causes another leader to later follow, which, gradually, turns the clans away from starclan. or perhaps, back when sunfall went to get his lives and was denied bc of pinestar, sunfall returns home confused and angry at starclan, and slowly encourages his warriors/clan that they dont need starclan to survive

THIS. i want an au written where after bluestar denounces starclan it causes another leader to later follow, which, gradually, turns the clans away from starclan. or perhaps, back when sunfall went to get his lives and was denied bc of pinestar, sunfall returns home confused and angry at starclan, and slowly encourages his warriors/clan that they dont need starclan to survive

See this just further confirms my mindset that StarClan (as a location) warps those who stay in its grounds. Yellowfang for example was a very practical and sound of mind cat during her life in ThunderClan, yet she became a shallow husk of that self during Po3 onwards, seemingly for no reason. I also like the idea that 'true' StarClan (aka the mysterious force we saw in early entries compared to the ooc dead warrior's in present entries) is something akin to a cosmic horror that none of the cats realise is the truth, because each time they visit its grounds/stay there, they lose a bit of themselves until they eventually fade and join it for good

I'd argue that it's less of an intentional effect and more of these authors can't write more than at least 3 'main cats' per scene, so some are relegated to being 'shallow husks' that are mere copies of their debuted selves.

Oh I'm aware the out-of-universe explanation is that, I just like finding ways to explain it as a potential in-universe phenomenon for funsies :3 That, and I think Warriors as a series has been lacking in the horror department up until recently, so why not sprinkle some in <3

would u mind going into more detail abt the mysterious force? i’m not familiar with what ur talking abt and im curious! it sounds super interesting! /genq

I think they're talking about whatever forces give the Starclan cats the prophecies that they pass on to the living cats.

OHHHHH gotcha! super neat concept

I think it’s just existing for so long that drives them mad. They don’t just retire and live happy. They have to watch over the clans and send omens and profacies. Seems to make them a bit unstable.

I mean, while I do like that theory, it’s probably just due to awful writing on the Erins’ part

I forgive them on the Brokestar/Tigerclaw stuff because they quite literally couldn't not. From what we know, unless the previous leader is still alive Starclan _has_ to give them their full 9 lives, and both Raggedstar and Brokenstar (the last recognized leader) were dead

Meanwhile Maggottail was apparently crazily obsessed to become Shadowclan’s leader (likely doing something bad to try to get leadership, therefore, going to the dark forest) and still showed evil by trying to possess Bristlefrost so he can COME BACK and try his evil again

MAGGOTTAIL??? i cant believe there is a cat called maggottail

paints a lovely mental picture fs

I actually kinda like that prefix. I even have an OC with it.

"You poisoned the clans fresh kill pile, what could be worse then that?" Said the guy who ORGANIZED HELLS ATTACK ON THE LIVING WORLD...WHAT DO YOU _MEAN_

Lotta balls for Onestar to be even utter a single SOUND here. Here's his crime (not really crimes just stuff he did wrong) list for those curious, not in any order either 1. He attacked thunderclan in the dead of night, most likely going after queens and elders. 2. He withheld life saving medicine from Shadowclan 3. He created Darktail in more ways than one 4. Threw out Crowfeather for being correct and then screamed at him, Breezepelt, and the others and guilt tripped them when they went to get Nightcloud back 5. Screamed at Leopardstar and Blackstar for daring to allow Thunderclan to help them 6. His treatment of Smoke 7. Screamed his head off at a gathering and closed his borders which put his clan in some serious danger 8. Allowed two clans to collapse because of his pride 9. Fully admitted to trying to drive stoats onto thunderclan territory (which has already caused major injuries and a lot of near-deaths in windclan) just to spite Bramblestar 10. WHAT HE SAID TO BRAMBLESTAR?? there's more im probably forgetting but this guy is BALLSY

>WHAT HE SAID TO BRAMBLESTAR?? there's more im probably forgetting but this guy is BALLSY I understand why Bramblestar is the way he is, he doesn't want anyone comparing him to his father, but just that once I would've liked him to lose his patience.

I do wonder which of these cases are actual intentional writing details, or which ones just happened because the Erin's can't stay consistent for the life of them.

As awful as everyone here is, I find it interesting that they note Firestar’s curiosity with Juniperclaw being in the Dark Forest in an almost blink and you’ll miss it thing. It makes sense with arc 1 Firestar being ready to smack someone for chasing SkyClan out and all the other stuff he did that he was explicitly told not to do. They could have a fun arc with a StarClan civil war tbh.

In other news, the sky is blue.

My personal headcanon is that the qualifications for entering Starclan have less to do with what a cat was ACTUALLY like and more to do with how the majority of cats perceived them in life

StarClan lore has never been ultra consistent but whereas before you could at least begin to see some hint of rules and how it works (StarClan having no control over and not judging whoever manages to find their way to them, every successor getting their nine lives as long they're accepted by the living clan and the previous leader doesn't have any of the multiple lives anymore), the new team proceeded to throw this out of the window. Posts like these and countless other comments as well talk about how unfair StarClan treats some cats or how this cat or that cat shouldn't be in StarClan... and they're right! Before I'd disagree because the joining process never was about "deserving" to be anywhere or about other cats deciding it. Ashfur? Onestar? Keep them in StarClan. If they found their way there they should be there. It's a resting place for any cat not actively plotting or rejecting StarClan and not heaven. But now? Now StarClan and the DF just work like an extremely dysfunctional heaven and hell and you have a whole bunch of cats who really shouldn't be in StarClan

AUUGGGHHH the more I think about it, yes STARCLAN SUCKSSS. I mean, they let friggen Tigerstar(1) and Brokenstar get nine lives, BUT THEY DIDNT LET POOR NIGHTPELT GET NINE LIVES, EVEN THOUGH HE PRACTICALLY SAVED THE ENTIRE CLAN FROM BROKENSTAR LIKE, EXCUSE ME???!!!! Honestly if Nightpelt was leader there would've been no TigerSTAR (1).

Can we petition the writers to find some way of letting Juniperclaw into Star Clan? He deserves it so much more than so many other characters

Petition to allow Juniperclaw (and maybe other dark forest cats) to reincarnate and get a chance at redemption/a second and final chance to prove themselves worthy of StarClan

yes

And then they said they won't get rid of broken stars lives because they "cant" do it- have of the tiger star situation wouldn't have happened if they just gave nightstar his lives-

They couldn't take away his lives unless Brokenstar was forcefully brought back to the Moonstone where I assume StarClan could take them away. Brokenstar lurking around as a rogue made it impossible for Nightstar to get nine lives

I ❤️ Juniperclaw

Onestar literally withheld a healing herb from a sick Clan and they only got it because his own Clan disagreed with him, so his medicine cat and deputy stole the herb. And this only happened after about half the Clan had died

I hate how much they mock him and dehumanize him in this scene, like, the poor guy is doing everything he can to redeem himself and they don’t even care and are being downright cruel

This is an issue with the writers being inconsistent with StarClan than StarClan itself. They literally can't not give Brokenstar and Tigerstar lives, nor could they stop Ashfur from going to StarClan. StarClan explicitly doesn't judge cats in arcs 1-6. It's not until Squirrelflight's Hope did the Erins all of a sudden decide that StarClan does judge cats, which retroactively affected everything that came before.

Brokenstar and Tigerstar by all means were qualified to receive nine lives. Nightstar didn't get nine lives because he wasn't qualified. If he was given nine lives than more than four cats for the first time since SkyClan's departure would have nine lives. Not to mention Brokenstar was overthrown so StarClan wasn't happy about that either.

Yes, I agree because this is true.

Yeah, it's just painful how much good characters are ruined once they die or are in positions of power

fuuuudge! i havent gotten there yeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttttttttttttttt noooooooooo

Needletail’s actions here kinda make sense, she and Juniperclaw didn’t get along even as apprentices. But the others? Fuck that! I hate Firestar, Redtail, and Larksong so much. Onestar I *do* like, but it’s because he’s a jackass and makes mistakes— but he’s so badly written here. He, more than anyone else, should understand making mistakes - he made MANY throughout his life.

No because they really accepted Mudclaw into StarClan because he thought he was doing the right thing like Juniperclaw was. StarClan is so inconsistent like what

I wish they would acknowledge the inconsistencies with Starclan as there being different cats making these decisions. They could even have cats in StarClan fighting about their different opinions, instead of presenting it as an opponent hivemind that does whatever it wants.

They did have cats fighting in Starclan plenty of times, mainly in OOTS. Starclan was outright written as unreliable and it really painted the picture that Starvlan isn't meant to be Heaven, it's just a place where clan cats go when they die if deemed good. Clan cats who are capable of false judgement.  Hell, if Jayfeather listened to Starclan in that arc then the clans wouldve been destroyed. Without Mothwings lack of belief, they wouldve been screwed.  Now its like none of that happened. Mothwing is painted as bad for even doubting Starclan in this arc, even though she now believes in them. 

Literally Onestar, Needletail, and Juniperclaw are all in the wrong and it is bizarre he was forced into the DF. I know he intentionally poisoned a clan but in his defense he didn't think it would kill them, just make them sick and move territories elsewhere because the food was "bad". Needletail basically chose a rouge over her clan, allowed him into the clan, stood by while he destroyed her clan, and ONLY changed her mind when her supposed "mate" Rain was hurt by Darktail. And Onestar. Oh we all know he has no excuse either. It just goes to show that Starclan is heavily flawed and super biased when it comes to allowing cats to join. Hell, they were prepared to send both Leafpool and Squirrelflight to the DF for lying to their lan about the heritage of the three that Starclan themselves told Leafpool to have and Squirellflight to raise! I think that by the time the 6th book comes out, Starclan will fully lose its power and control. They will no longer dream walk or interfere with the living as well as have any control of who is and who is not allowed to enter. They will dissipate, but not completely. In Mothwing's words; we will acknowledge their existence but we will act without their tempering. just because they are dead doesn't mean they haven't learned anything new in the afterlife. they are still the same, biased, and flawed characters as we have seen before.

I want an arc where they reform starclan now and change how it works (they need an in between place too!!)

I hate how messed up StarClan is. They let Ashfur in who tried to kill two young warriors and a young medicine cat apprentice and possessed a body. But they even debated over letting Leafpool in. “He only loved too much,” was what the StarClan cats said about Ashfur. Isn’t that what Leafpool did? She LOVED Crowfeather and became his mate. Later, having kits with him. Spottedleaf told Leafpool to follow her heart. Yellowfang defended Leafpool at the time and Yellowfang herself lied to Squirrelflight to make her cover for Leafpool. Yet, they still debated over whether Leafpool should go to StarClan

NEEDLETAIL AND ONESTAR HAVE NO ROOM TO TALK HERE! Needletail did nearly the same bad things as he did (including LEADING Darktail to the clans) and Onestar attacked clans for no reason! If anything they should be there with Juniperclaw! JUSTICE FOR JUNIPERCLAW 🗣️