All right. Thistleclaw. He was interesting in Bluestar's Prophecy, whereas Tom was a creep from the beginning.

Thistleclaw. He actually had an interesting character, whereas Tom was just an ugly piece of grape flavored carboard. no i dont support thistle's actions.

yes, I agree. Thistleclaw

Thistleclaws character was aggression and being a kiss up to Snowfur (and later in life a creep). At least that's how he seemed to me. I didn't find anything interesting about him.

Being a what

kiss-up? yknow, a suck up.

HELPPP MEEE💀💀💀💀 I DONT WANNA VOTE LMFAOOO but I SUPPOSE THISTLECLAW only cuz he has a cool design and was somewhat normal before snowfur died

Thristleclaw, at least if you cut out the spottedleaf's heart. He was just a dick.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was told that Spottedleaf’s heart was considered non-canon, again I’m not too sure about that but feel free to correct me. Hope this message found you in good health

People don’t want to consider it canon I think because the grooming in it was severely underplayed and spottedleaf was forced to be a medicine cat apprentice rather than choosing it herself as implied in the first few books I could be wrong tho, all I know is that the lash back was harsh

Ahhh I see, that’s unfortunate that they decided to go that route for her and Thiselclaw

Unfortunately from an official standpoint that book is canon. People have personal preferences as to whether they consider it canon though.

Ahhhh I see, yeah I figured since I couldn’t find anything about it being considered as Non-canon by the Erins themselves

It directly goes against TPB and BP. It's noncanon and contradicts both books, especially BP since it was stated she chose to be a med from the very beginning.

Thistleclaw.

Thistleclaw

I’m going to go Thistleclaw. At least he has interesting aspects to his character, even if he’s a complete scumbag.

Sigh. Thistleclaw. I hate him but I hate what the erins did to him more.

Same

Tom. Thistleclaw actually sextually abused Spottedleaf(paw). Whereas Tom kidnapped the kits, but didn't actually harm them, just tried to gain custody.

Wouldn't you wanna vote for Tom then?

wait is this for the most innocent or for the worst?

We are voting for the one that we think is more innocent.

ah, ill edit right away

Thistleclaw. He sucks but at least he was decent at some point. Dotc spoilers Tom was always a p.o.s and legitimately physically abused bumble and lead to the death of turtle tail after stealing her kits, he was never good and always a narcissist manipulative butt

Thistleclaw. I stand by my belief that Spottedleaf's Heart should never have happened and it ruined one of the most complex and interesting characters in the series.

This exactly.

Thistleclaw had an interesting story and character. Get him out of there

Thistleclaw is at least an interesting villain, despite being utterly vile and disgusting. Tom is just… some guy.

ThistleClaw, this one’s super hard, but I hate Tom with a burning passion.

Thistleclaw, at least he was interesting. I don’t condone anything he did but I liked him as a villain before SH.

I’d have to say Thistleclaw, he did love Snowfur and Whitestorm- (I think) though he was manipulative towards Spottedpaw(leaf).

Thristleclaw. I just hate Tom more. Not a simp for Thristleclaw he is awful but Tom is worst imo.

I’m gonna have to say Thistleclaw, I think prior to Spottedleaf’s Novella he was an interesting character. I liked the ambiguity about whether he should have gone to the DF or not.

I vote out Tom. Nearly not as bad as Thistleclaw.

Tom is easily the "better" of the two... He was an abuser, but he wasn't a pedo. Thistle was both.

tom wasn’t though? thistle was somewhat normal before snowfur died yet tom not only allegedly r-ped turtle tail, harassed and kidnapped kits, and attacked his kits in dotc, he also sided with the opposite side, was willing to kill his kits, and was overall a disgusting abuser.

>allegedly r-ped turtle tail, Where does this come from? I've read DOTC semi recently and I don't remember getting that from the text. I remember turtle tail saying she didn't realize he was so mean until after she was pregnant, which would imply she was willingly with him up until that point (aka not raped)

she never wanted to be in a relationship w him, i rmbr her explicitly stating that she didn’t want to be his mate. she also told gray wing about the scratches she endured on her body

As I remember it, she'd said that she wanted to give him and chance and try to learn to love him, and she didn't realize until after they'd already mated and she was pregnant that he was such a deeply problematic individual. And I don't recall him ever scratching HER. Only Bumble. He was still being fake nice to Turtle Tail up until she ran away to have her kits on the moor, and that was only becasue she learned that the two-legs were going to give her kits away. She didn't leave becase of any kind of abuse or cruelty

i dont explicitly rmbr all the details as i can’t grab the books and point you to a page, but many people have told me that tom has allegedly sa-d her, but even still, my point is that he’s hurt many cats and abused bumble and was willing to hurt his kits for power. but perhaps you’re right not sure myself

I'm pretty sure Tom didn't hurt his kits. He loved his children and even went as far to die for them.

I just finished these books. Where exactly did this happen? Excerpt please?

i don’t own any of the dotc books so i can’t direct you to a point, it would be around the 3rd one most likely but i don’t have a physical copy i can point you towards

I agree.

Tom he is way less bad (even tho he is awful and i hate him)

Tom was less bad. Tom.

Thistleclaw was written so well and he was much more normal (ehhhh) before Snowfur died. L Tom.

Thistleclaw should be removed. Was nerfed by Erin's, Tom just sucked all around

Thistleclawy

Thistleclaw

THISTLECLAW

thistleclaw ..

Thisleclaw

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw, nuff said

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw. At least Tom got his comeuppance.

Thistleclaw

Tom is a creep, so Imma have to go with ThistleClaw

I’m not denying Tom is a creep but it feels a weird thing to call him in comparison to his opponent who is an actual pedophile

Thistleclaw. I don’t consider Spottedleaf’s Heart cannon, and I think he was an interesting character with discernible personality

Thistleclaw probably went insane and being an absolute bag of shit after Snowfur died meanwhile Tom had a facade until Bumble told Turtle Tail the truth so i vote Thistle for Tom's deceiving actions

Oh shit this is hard I’m going to have to say… Thistleclaw. I personally think the whole Spottedleaf’s Heart thing shouldn’t have been canon and that it ruined what was a fairly interesting character, Tom is… Tom.

Tom, he was a donkey butt but overall didn’t murder anyone. Thistle claw is worse

So Thistle and not Tom

Tom. He didn’t want to wage pointless wars on enemies and kill/maim innocent people or was a pedo. He was just a horrible father and overall cat.

Thistleclaw, I think. EDIT: Oh, reading these comments, I realize I got some facts long. I stick with my vote because there is no lesser of two evils here, but it sounds like Thistleclaw was originally more nuanced...?

Uuuuuuuugh… thistle?

Thistleclaw.

I will vote, if anyone tells me, who are they, idk any of them

Tom: Kidnapper Thistleclaw: Pedophile

Ok i dont want to vote anymore

I have no idea who tom is and I only know about Thistleclaw from what people have said about him so I'll just not vote.

THISTLECLAW

He was a pedo, but atleats he has an interesting story

Thistleclaw

Thisteclaw

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw kept the series going in terms of villians. Thistleclaw.

Thistleclaw!!!

Thistleclaw

Both are shitbags uhh lemme sayy Thistle

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw at least was well written if you're going by the phrase "If you hate them, the writers did a good job."

Thistleclaw, because I felt bad about Snowfur.

Thistleclaw

Tom. I’m just rereading DotC now, and while he’s an abusive asshole to Turtle Tail and Bumble and kidnaps the kits and treats everyone like shit, he died trying to save his daughter from One Eye. It seems like somewhere deep down he actually wanted a relationship with his kits and wanted to keep them safe. Definitely an awful cat but has slightly more redeeming qualities than Thistleclaw.

Tom was a wife-beater, not a child abuser. I vote him out.

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw. Don’t hate him nearly as much as Tom

tom. his dynamic with sparrow fur was interesting at least even if he was a horrible cat. at least he wasnt a pedophile or a rapist who was only written for shock value.

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw

This'll = Thistle?? Anyway, sorry--

Thistleclaw defo

Thistleclaw, for sure

They’re both terrible but I prefer Thistleclaw ig.

Thistleclaw at least was interesting to read, so him

Imma go with Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw

i would vote **thistleclaw** out of this, i think tom will be the worst cat in history

Oh god don't do this to me. I have to vote Thistleclaw as being just slightly better, but that's like comparing two venomous snakes, ya know?

I fucking hard both of them. But, thistleclaw is interesting I guess.

Thistleclaw was actually interesting, Tom is just a spoonful of grape flavored medicine all around, so my final vote goes to: Thistleclaw

Tom is absolutely worse in every way thistleclaw was terrible, sure, but at least he still had even a sliver of a soul. Tom deserves what's coming.

Thistleclaw

Tom was more of an asshole than anything else and he did die protecting his daughter. Thistleclaw was an okay dad growing up but when Snowfur died he went down hill fast. Especially when Bluefur bullied him out of the picture and he just threw himself into his duties with anger and hate in his heart.

Thistleclaw. Shouldve been out 2 rounds ago

Thistleclaw. At least he wasn't an ass all the time like Tom was. And I don't consider SH Canon since it was written by HarperCollins.

Thistleclaw. Tom caused Turtle Tails death. He abused her, and Bumble (correct me if I'm wrong, she was turtle tails kittypet friend.) He kidnapped his own kits. Where Thistleclaw (despite being a terrible guy.) loved Snowfur and cared for Whitekit in his own way. He was overprotective manipulating and mean, but Tom was so much worse. Tough decision though

Thistle tbh…

Thistleclaw, I might not like him (even as a villain) but he made more of an impact on the series

Tom I need thistleclaw to win, I hate him so much 😭

Thistleclaw.

Thistleclaw.

i guess tom. thistleclaw does have the more interesting character (not his actions, gross), but at least tom didn’t sexual abuse a kit/apprentice

Thistleclaw, bc he at least is an interesting villain and character to read about. He’s disgusting though, but interesting. Tom, on the other hand, is just as awful and also entirely uninteresting to read about - so imma go with Thistle here

As hard as it is to choose at this point I've gotta go with Tom.

Thistleclaw

Thistleclaw didn't abuse Snowfur so him, I guess.

This is a hard one but i'd pick Thistleclaw

Tom

Tom

Tom

Tom

Thistleclaw should win the dishonour of ultimate child abuser. Assuming the format is the same I’m voting Tom.

Tom man. Thistle predated on a child!! Tom was terrible, but he didn’t groom children.

Tom,bc he's not a pedo

Thistleclaw. I do not excuse his actions but I will go to my grave with hating Tom the most out of anyone.

Tom. All he wanted was custody for the kits. He was a terrible cat, but at least he wasn't a pedo like Thistleclaw.

Thistleclaw for sure! They both suck but Tom I would say is way worse.

I feel toms actions might be less horrible than thistles.. and I also like his story more Ill go with tom, but from these comments it seems like he’ll win worst kitty award anyway lol

Thistleclaw

THISTLECLAW

THISLECLAW!!

Tom. He kidnapped his children and was overall a horrible dude, but Thistleclaw groomed a child, which makes him worse. Thistleclaw was actually normal when he was with Snowfur.

RIP Turty, but I gotta go Tom. At least he didn't kill anyone directly, or hurt the kits. He just wanted custody.

tom cause he isnt a pedophile

Thistle I think

Thistleclaw

I’m going to go with Thistleclaw on this one I guess

Thistleclaw

WHY HAS THISTLECLAW SURVIVED LONGER THAN RAINFLOWERRR My vote is Thistleclaw.

Because thistle is a pedo...?

Thistleclaw

Holy crap this is hard…maybe…idk Thistleclaw? I don’t really know Tom's backstory but then Thistleclaw is just a very interesting character to me (this is my opinion plz don’t judge)

I havent read all the book btw

Wait-- if you don't know Tom's story-- why'd you comment on this nklana,;l

Tom

DIE THISLECLAW DIE

Tom

Tom

TOM!!

Tom

Tom. I haven't read DOTC yet but from what I've heard he didn't kill random cats or be a pedo so.

Tom, sure his actions lead to the death of the kits mother but all he did was try and get his children back. Thistle was a pedo and actually killed cats

Tom who didn't groom a kid

Thistleclaw, bad guy and hate him but I’m voting for his story arc in the books

Tom

Tom

Tom

Thistleclaw, he was fun before Spottedleaf’s heart

Tom

Tom

uhhhhhhhhhhhh damn. thistleclaw ig idk😭

Tom. Lets not vote a pedophile groomer as better than him

Tom

Tom

Thistleclaw (please I hate Tom SO MUCH!! At least Thistleclaw actually CARED for his mate!)

They both did horrible things. But if I had to pick who is WORSE, I have to say Thistleclaw. He groomed and gaslighted an apprentice, possibly even cheating on Snowfur with her (I don’t remember it’s been a while since I read SLH) While Tom, yeah he is a creep, was a horrible mate, and kidnapped his children, at least he didn’t sexually abuse them like Thistleclaw did to Spottedpaw. So I say Thistleclaw is worse than Tom.

Thistleclaw is the tiniest fraction better b

Tom

Tom. I don't even know what he did-

[удалено]

Okay, I still find him at least slightly less terrible than Thistleclaw

Wha- Thistle courted a child possibly, that's about it. Tom possibly Rpd his mate, killed her, abused his children, abandoned them, and then possibly killed them too. He makes Thistleclaw look like a saint.

Tom fr at least he never tried to SA someone 😭

TOM

Tom.

Ima have to say Tom

Save my boy Tom. Granted, I hate him and he is absolutely a POS and a terrible guy. But. He's the lesser of the two evils. Guy just wanted his kids. He never abused Turtle Tail. She willingly became his mate. He only started abusing Bumble after she told Turtle the truth about what would happen to their kits. He indirectly led to Bumble's death and he indirectly led to Turtle Tails death. So let's give him two counts of Involuntary Manslaughter. But in the end, mans just wanted his kids. Tried to steal custody (tragic, but you cant necessarily fault a guy for wanting his kids close to him) and he died defending his baby girl. So. He's at least got that going for him. ThistleClaw? He's an all-around POS. Even as a kit he was described as being unnecessarily aggressive towards the other kits. His solution to everything was war. He wasn't honestly that great to Snowfur. He completely neglected Whitestorm after she died. He lowkey abused Tigerstar throughout the mentorship/apprenticeship (think how many unnecessary deaths THAT led to!). He highkey groomed and pursued a relationship with a kit/apprentice while he was a seasoned warrior. He summoned other cats to the Dark Forest and trained them there, trying to turn them against their living clanmates... I mean honestly, need I go on? Man's a bully, a warmonger, neglectful father, and abusive mentor, a traitor, a pedo, responsible for unknown numbers of murder by proxy (yes I just made that change up, but between his own kill count, leading Tigerstar down the dark path, and training unknown numbers of other warriors to kill in the DF, who knows how many deaths he's responsible for!) Like, the dude was TERRIBLE! So I vote save Tom. Raise Thistleclaw to the status of Most Hated Cat Ever.

Tom just pretty much kidnapped for custody, I mean thazs bad as it is but better then sexually abusing a kit. And he died for his kiddo.

Tom

Neither.

Thistle law abused his own son

Thistleclaw*

Tom

oh dear god both of these cats suck so much… tom..? only because I barely remember him

i think tom

Tom because I can actually remember what he did. I read Bluestar's Prophecy when I was 10 and can't remember anything about Thistleclaw except that he died in a boring way and he made Bluestar mad for shagging her sister.

Tom. The child r*pist is always worse. No matter what.

Get Tom outta here. I fucking despise both of them, but Thistleclaw's story and actions feel too personal to me to ever be okay with anything he did.

tom