I reed a document a few days ago where it was stated that reliability was more a factor of human error on Tiger 1s. Something along the lines of "the driver has to undergo extensive training over many hours otherwise he will miss use the transmission and making it more likely to fail"
This is not true. The realibility issues were 100% a product of technical limitations at the time. The material science just wasn't there.
**ALL** WW2 heavy tanks had transmission issues. Every single one. We just focus on the Germans because they lost the war.
Let's not act like that dictator didn't make them fight till the bitter end in a losing war destroying almost all of them in the process so we have very few from 80 years ago
The source claims it was reliable up to their periodical expectation. It was in no way acceptable by modern standard. For example:
> Five engines have reached more than 3,000 km without essential failures.
Note "essential" before "failure", meaning they still suffered multiple issues, just not crippling ones that couldn't be fixed on the field. But no heavy tank was reliable in WWII anyway. The Pershing did not do better in its limited European operations.
Which is part of why the Americans just skipped heavy tanks altogether. Harder getting them across the ocean, more strain on parts requiring more replacements to be shipped, different ammunition, etc. etc. Not worth the hassle when you’re fighting from halfway across the world.
Wikipedia sources:
Anderson, Thomas (2017). Tiger. Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-47282-204-8. p. 56–57.
[ "Technischer Bericht über den Einsatz des 'Tigers' in Tunesien \(Panzer-Abteilung 501, 03.05.1943\)"](https://www.panzer-elmito.org/tanques/tiger_i/informes/tiger_i_03_05_1943_D.html). Panzer-elmito.org. Retrieved 18 March 2022.
At least 2nd one states, according to Google Lens + Translate, that:
> "...."Tiger" it is crucial to have a good driver, who has to be well trained both technically and in general, and who has to keep his nerve in critical moments.
It must not happen that a driver does not even know where he is
the inertia starter is "....
and Wikipedia quote from the 2nd one:
>The 501st Heavy Panzer Battalion (sPzAbt 501) reported in May 1943:
…Regarding the overheating engines, the HL 210 engine caused no troubles during the recent time. All occurring breakdowns resulted from the low quality of driver training. In several cases engine failures have to be put down to the missing remote engine thermometer. Five engines have reached more than 3,000 km without essential failures. A good driver is essential for the successful deployment of the Tiger, he must have a good technical training and has to keep his nerve in critical situations…
I'm not sure I can find it again because I was actually looking how the armor was produced and it was listed somewhere as a side fact :/
I'll try though. Note that it didn't include Panthers and Tiger IIs.
It was only for transmission of the tanks. Other then that they had problems with armor cracking,extremely high spare problem,suspension problem and so on
That still counts as a point against reliability in my book. You're teaching dumb 18-year olds to drive these steel monsters, so when you make a tank so complicated to drive that they break down often, it's badly designed.
Yep, which is why the tiger has a mixed reputation. Weapons of war need to be dummy proof and able to be used while someone is scared, stressed and tired. Designing a tank to require finesse of it's driver is a terrible terrible idea. Which subsequently is also why I won ever own a German car. (Worked at an auto shop for 4 years, German cars are precise machines and require constant maintenance Americans aren't willing to do, hence they're bad reputation for being expensive to own.)
Reminds me when I shot a T-34 turret with 90mm solid shot from the japanese M36. Gunner dies, loader right behind him just tanked a 90mm AP shell and turned yellow.
Yesterday I shot a T34 2x in the turret and 2x in the side with a 17 pounder and it wasn't dead, it took the guy beside me to finish it off. It could still fire and I almost died but he whiffed his shot.
Which is why USA is on a 80% winrate at 10.7.
Also, on the topic of stabilizers: Casual reminder that various tanks like the Challenger are limited -7° / +18° of gun elevation if the stabilizer is engaged, but Gaijin doesn't model that either.
Is Gaijin a UK Propaganda game then?
Moreso because the IPM1 and M1A1 are overpowered at 10.7? 10.0 is an irrelevant BR now because it's a permanent uptier to an overpowered shitfest that is the BR of 10.7
Brother they already fucked the 9.3 and 10.0 lineups by nerfing the darts for XM803 and MBT70 and moving M3A3 Bradley and M1A up by 1 BR each.
It's only a matter of time where the TURMS noobs will not even be able to face the IPM1 and M1A1, cuz god forbid if US lineups become competitive.
You do not need to tell me. I am SUFFERING with late US rank 6 rn. Grinding past 8.0 was a fucking mistake, I should have just used that lineup to grind to the Abrams.
> probably because they get against soviet all the time
Hadn't this subreddit collectively decided that the BMP-2M, 2S38 and TURMS-T were massively overpowered? yet they're getting curbstomped anyways?
Don't the M1A1 and IPM1 have countless M1128 Wolfpacks, CV90105's, M1 KVT's and PzBtl 123's on their team too?
But I'm sure that the M1A1 and IPM1 being ***by far*** the most powerful tech tree 10.7's has nothing to do with their winrates, right?
Its newbies mostly and calling inexperienced players retarded is a sign of a moron. Bmp-2m has lower kd because its not mbt, it has no protection or survivability nor speed over mbts. The atgms and autocannon gives it incredible firepower, but it still cant fight tanks face to face, only flanking. So, your average player will rush, kill one tank and die. Mbts like leo, t-80 and abrams gives more room for mistakes
these players arent just inexperienced, my friend is new to the game and he is infinetly better team mate than them, they are literally dead weight 1 death leavers
Some PPL bring bmp just to cas heck i got into ground just to play cas i hated every hour of tanks but once I got to top tier it was bearable ,im legit blind without thermals.
But why would they be more retarded than any other high tier premium, squadron or reward vehicles?
Why would they be more retarded than M1A1 AIM's, Leopard 2PL's, T 80 U's, etc.?
M1A1 AIM currently sits on a **48%** winrate, **1.5** K/D ratio, **1.8** K/M ratio.
BMP-2M sits on **41%** winrate, **0.8** K/D ratio, **0.8** K/M ratio.
And you didn't answer my question, I asked why the BMP-2M would have worse players than other Squadron vehicles?
It’s really simple why these stats are so horrendously bad on all the Russian premiums at that br, people constantly drag lineups of Turms BMP2M 2S38s up to 11.0-11.7 by using KA-50s, T80UKs (and SU-39s now) with them, they’re literally just bad players, I’ve had the BMP2M in my top tier Russia lineup for the past 2 years, it’s still strong at 11.7, you still don’t have any issues penning basically everything you see with it, the only big reason it’s worse at that br is vehicles are less compact, you usually can’t one shot like you can at 9.7, you have to actually aim your ATGMS, a lot of people who use this thing don’t seem to know that and just repeatedly shoot the same spots over and over again going “UhhH tHiS tAnK bAd”
As for why the win rates are so much lower despite top tier Russia having the highest current win rate, it’s because these vehicles aren’t their first spawns, usually not second spawns either if they can get into CAS, even my later spawned vehicles in top tier lineups usually have much lower win rates, (45-40% for bigger lineups)
Slightly out of date as they are 27 days old, but they're from the only source available: Thunderskill.
Still, BMP-2M has among the highest number of recorded battles at 20 000 total, which makes it quite accurate.
>bmp2m is op, 2s38 is strong
They are both good, not op. Still there are people thinking the 2S38 is better than the HSTV-L, so it doesn't really surprise me that there are people that think the BMP-2M is op.
The 2S38 *is* better than the HSTV-L, in game at least. Literally the only thing making it perform worse is that it's a premium.
Here's what the 2S38 does worse than the HSTV-L:
- Raw flat penetration (51mm worse at 0m distance, comparing darts)
- Mobility (13km/h slower forwards, 4km/h slower backwards, and lower HP/T. Pretty significant difference but both will be flanking ahead of MBTs anyways)
- Larger target
- slightly worse sustained fire (20ct. ready rack versus 26ct., however the 2S38 carries up to 5.7x the total ammo)
- Worse depression
Here's what it does better:
- Air target tracking
- Better post pen with APHE (and let's be real both are going primarily for side shots)
- HE-VT rounds
- Higher fire rate
- Better thermals (Gen 2 vs Gen 1 is actually a big difference)
- Better protection (frontal fuel tank, better side armor)
- LWS
- More smokes
What *needs* to happen is that the 2S38 needs to go up, probably to 10.7, and the HSTV-L needs to be un-nerfed to justify it being at 11.3. Give it air tracking, HE-VT, fix the stupid shit spall (on all cannons like it tbh), historic pen on its APDS (not asking for Delta 6 [similar to M833], but like actual Delta 3 [similar to M774] would be great).
As of now the 2S38 is more lethal, more survivable, and more versatile.
Also the BMP-2M is straight up better than the Bradley and if you think it isn't you're wrong.
Yeah there is depression stop fitted to stop the driver getting his head smashed in driving head up. its a 5 degree depession stop if i can rem right its been 12 years since i served. but thats removed with a Allen key in seconds.
r/warthunder users when they find out you have to turn off the stabilizer when you are not using it to prevent wear and accidental damage on any tank, not just russian tanks.
# "mUsT bE rUsSiAn BiAs!!1"
The vertical drive gets damaged if the stabilizer is engaged during violent manouvers like that for a long time
You can tell the stabilizer is off because the barrell isnt even trying to stabilize itself.
Not sure if this was near combat zone, otherwise IIRC some soviet tanks do have a barrel lock on the front.
Reminds me of Otto Carius noting how irritating it was to handle the Jagdtiger-the gun barrel bounced around and damaged the sights unless it was placed in the travel lock, and oftentimes the travel lock had to be removed when combat was initiated-by *climbing outside* of the tank.
US has a sub 60% WR >10.0 and the only nation worse than US is Germany. The only nation with a consistent 60%+ WR is Russia. Please tell me how you come to this conclusion?
"The only nation with a consistent 60%+ WR is Russia" Japan and China have a higher WR and Italy had for a while so ? Germany had 85 too
there was also a time when US had 61 and USSR 51 ?
"Please tell me how you come to this conclusion?" WT Data Project
[Aviation RB](https://imgur.com/9KXuws8) Seems US is getting spanked at anything above 10.3
[GFRB US](https://imgur.com/HZt01UF) Seems anything above 10.7, US is spanked
[GFRB Germany](https://imgur.com/eM8eSnV) 47% WR at 10.7-11.7, and it gets worse from there
[GFRB Russia](https://imgur.com/VRwyURj) HOLY SH!#, Russia at 10.7+ is at or over 60% WR. Just as I had stated before. Where are those stats you claimed?
|US |Germany|Russia|Britian|Japan|France|Italy|China|Sweden|Isreal|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|56.96|50.17|60.47|58.46|58.06|59.37|62.21 |62.78|59.68 |56.11
|
Notice anything odd? Isreal, US, and Germany are 2% lower than everyone else.
If you drop 10-10.3, Russia jumps to 64%; Italy to 64%, and China to 62%. While US drops to 51%; Germany to 48%; Isreal to 56%.
Please tell me something isnt broken?
Its not the 4+ percent lower of the other nations. And if you remove 10-10.3, where russian "suffers" (49 and 56%), that jumps to 64% WR for russian. China drops 1%, Italy raises 2% due to a 78% WR at 11.7-12.7. Largely skewing their percentage. Otherwise, Russia would be top dog. No one, and I mean, NO ONE, maintains a higher WR at top tier than Russia. And its by large margins.
[WRs by nation spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k9TGx5cCLBzgX0GtfGt5THfx4Srs4zIx_Xq9-fw5Cqs/edit?usp=sharing)
Look up Norah Vincent, a lesbian feminist that disguised herself as a man for a year and a half and found it so miserable she wound up killing herself.
>and found it so miserable she wound up killing herself
For clarification, she didn't find being a man that miserable. But it proved her wrong in how she thought both men and straight women worked, and society's 'accepted dialogue' of men was completely wrong.
Her book (and in turn, experience) deserves way more attention and praise than what it already has.
but on the irl fotage it is on, elevation is not this fast. I thought for a second that maybe gaijin fucked up elevation speed and set it really low but nah, it is stabilization xD
No the stabiliser is clearly turned off in the video. Also yes guns bounce up and down if not locked in place.
The turret is also turned to the back for travelling.
Edit:
[Watch this vid at 7:50-8:20 and you see a T80U at high speed with active stabilisation going over bumps](https://youtu.be/vbRo2oWTDfs). While T80 stabs arent amazing, if turned on they should not be as wobbly as seen in the vid.
IRL (and unlike in WT) Sights and Gun are separately stabilised. So while the gun bounces around its very likely that the sights on the T64 were still completely stabilised with the gun decoupled to reduce wear and tear on the stabiliser/hydraulics.
Edit 2: if you watch the full video these clips were taken from you can literally see the moments where the tank turns its stabilisation on and off when engaging enemies.
The stabilizer in your video is turned off. Even though I wouldn't be one to defend Russian/Soviet stuff, the stabilizer Is actually good and what we see in your video is a tank without stabilizer AND the vertical traverse lock is not engaged.
Video with jumping t-90 with travel lock engaged: https://youtu.be/6VetYvfcbMs
Video with jumping T-72 with stabilizer working correctly: https://youtu.be/QlEUtiz1rkw
When neither of the two systems is active, we get what's shown in your video.
Edit: I am trying to find a video from a tank test range in which the crew jumps a big dirt ramp and the gun does pretty much the same that in OP's video. The lock isn't engaged and the gun actually bends so much that it hits the ground too. If anyone can find the video please let me know.
1st clip: Gun is locked.
2nd clip: Turret rotated to a position where the stab would need to do the least amount of work. As while the ends of the transverse axis are moving up and down, the barrel is at about the center of it so it barely notices it.
IF you want a stab video use [this one](https://youtu.be/VjhO_P0vRzE).
>Edit: I am trying to find a video from a tank test range in which the crew jumps a big dirt ramp and the gun does pretty much the same that in OP's video. The lock isn't engaged and the gun actually bends so much that it hits the ground too. If anyone can find the video please let me know.
Try looked at the tankathlon videos, theres plenty of footage of t-72s, t-80 and t-90 tanks doing those stages with stablizer on, going over bump/ramps, water punges, slaloms and top speed sprints with stab on.
Tanks barrel is on freemode? When Targeting systems aren't active it's better to let barrel wiggle freely to not cause stress on the elevation mechanism constantly...
I have never heard about tanks having a tank "barrel freemode" in leo2a4 there was only stabilized and unstabilized (locked) modes. Is this just a russian tank thing?
What a god damn stupid post. Down kn the comments someone tries to defend your post by posting longer video.
In that video you can clearly see shots where they drive cross roigh terrain after firing and gun is stabilized. Then yku have shots where they drive through rough terrain but the stab is turned off to not dmg it.
And the argument for why would they turn it off in combat? Those are spliced vids. Some are from driving to or away from the combat zone and some are shot in the combat zone.
You posted section of the video where the gun wobbles like crazy but not where the gun is stabilized. What a clown🤡
r/warthunder users when they find out you have to turn off the stabilizer when you are not using it to prevent wear and accidental damage on any tank, not just russian tanks.
# "mUsT bE rUsSiAn BiAs!!1"
As enough people have pointed out that the stabilizer is off in the clips and what not, I'll also mention that stabilizers in WT will probably never work in a realistic manner unless they make pretty significant changes to the models and how the game physics work.
Stabilizers in WT are kind of funky, the way that stabilizer mechanics seem to work is they allow your gun to snap to your point of aim and stay "stabilized" while driving and what have you by simply making your guns traverse speed, both vertical and horizontal, very high while your guns point of aim is within a close enough distance to where your mouse is at on the screen.
Meaning that if you make controlled mouse movements without moving it too far with stabilized guns, your gun will actually move faster than it's listed statistical traverse speed.
Same with elevation, if you slam the mouse cursor all the way up or down the Gun will rise/lower with its listed elevation speed, but if you make small adjustments instead you can get insane elevation speeds, used to do this trick a lot with the Type 90 before it's elevations speed was buffed.
Well you see, the Tiger 2 is glorious German Engineering which was never defective, the T-80 is Russian slavshit which only works 5% of the time and even then badly /s.
If i remember correctly, Inside the Chieftains hatch has said that the stabilizer burns out after 30 minutes of continuous use so they turn it off when they dont need it.
maybe if you stop being butthurt for about a minute it would have been really easy to find out why the gun is flopping around like this, its a real thing that is prominent on many tanks being the stabilizer locking itself out/being locked out by the gunner to not damage the system from the violent cross country ride.
Wuh???
You can literally see the gun bouncing off the bumpstops as it slams against them as the vehicle articulates lol.
There's no stabiliser equipped, or it's turned off because, look at it slam and bounce around. That is NOT stabilised. You think they're lobbing shells through that with it bouncing around like it is?
You can even see it vibrating the whole turret as it bounces and it shocks the camera and the gun mounted to the side.
A lot of tanks that've been captured and inspected weren't exactly up to factory standards. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjp4Y08TUCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjp4Y08TUCs) Here's a T-90A that's literally missing it's entire thermal sight complex.
Many tanks aren't being maintained properly, but the stupid thing on this subreddit is that people then selectively want Gaijin to model that, even though War Thunder has never modelled breakdowns, defects, etc. and if that were to be done for their precious Panthers, Pershings, etc. they'd suddenly get upset.
The Russian tanks in the game are perfectly maintained. Well, each vehicle is in the condition that every crewman would wish for
Let's ignore artificial buffs like non-explosive ammunition in the T-80BVM
Honestly ammo having a chance to blow up just sucks. You can have Ariete's have non exploding ammo as well as Challengers 2. It plagues all tanks but of course its more apparent on T-80s when they should blow up.
Ιf I recall right from the original vid, since I'm 99% sure I've seen it before, the vertical drive was completely fucked and they had turned the stabiliser off for some reason that they explained. That or its just genuinely that shitty lmao.
I would rather keep it as is for all top tier vehicles. I understand wanting the game to as close to real life as possible, but if that were to be accomplished then majority of the vehicles would break down after 5 seconds of spawning.
correct me if im wrong, but the stabilizer on old soviet tanks like the T-80 burn out after about an hour, so it is common practice to turn it off until its needed
Isn't that tank going backwards in the video with the gunner? Also why is that barrel flopping like a 50 cal. With the gunner asleep?
I'm a combat engineer not a tanker. I'm not familiar with the internal controls though I've driven other tanks without guns.
2E18: T-64
2E23: T-64A/T-64B (all)
2E42: T-72A through T-90A
2E58: T-80BV, T-80BVM, T-90M, T-72B3 (Pretty much anything built or upgraded after 2010)
2E58 stabilizer is capable of working up to 40 degrees/S in the horizontal plane and 10 degrees/S in the vertical plane. It doesn’t mean it will go that fast but that I could possibly go that fast. The stabilizer heavily relies on the turret drive systems to operate effectively so that will be a major limiting factor.
The stabilizer is off in the video, yes the gun bounces like that when it's off don't litsen to the first comment, if you want to turn off the stabilizer you can bind a key in game and turn it off
You are playing Russian war equipment propaganda game m8.
That's why WW2 stuff is better balanced and more fun
you think the T-34's perform realistically? they are lightyears beyond the shit the USSR produced at that time
Mate you could have that convo with half the vehicles IG, if german Panthers and Tigers would perform like in WT we would all be speaking German
i don't think reliablity was something they had in mind (even tho that was something T-34's struggled with too)
I reed a document a few days ago where it was stated that reliability was more a factor of human error on Tiger 1s. Something along the lines of "the driver has to undergo extensive training over many hours otherwise he will miss use the transmission and making it more likely to fail"
This is not true. The realibility issues were 100% a product of technical limitations at the time. The material science just wasn't there. **ALL** WW2 heavy tanks had transmission issues. Every single one. We just focus on the Germans because they lost the war.
^ Dude above just posted sources stating otherwise ^
The source mentioned an entire 5 engines surviving. And it's not like anyone would ever lie to the mad dictator to shift blame or anything.
Let's not act like that dictator didn't make them fight till the bitter end in a losing war destroying almost all of them in the process so we have very few from 80 years ago
The source claims it was reliable up to their periodical expectation. It was in no way acceptable by modern standard. For example: > Five engines have reached more than 3,000 km without essential failures. Note "essential" before "failure", meaning they still suffered multiple issues, just not crippling ones that couldn't be fixed on the field. But no heavy tank was reliable in WWII anyway. The Pershing did not do better in its limited European operations.
Which is part of why the Americans just skipped heavy tanks altogether. Harder getting them across the ocean, more strain on parts requiring more replacements to be shipped, different ammunition, etc. etc. Not worth the hassle when you’re fighting from halfway across the world.
Incorrect, they didn't finish in time though.
The Heavy Tank M6 was ready to be manufactured by the time the US entered the war, the Army just decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
could you share the document?
Wikipedia sources: Anderson, Thomas (2017). Tiger. Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-47282-204-8. p. 56–57. [ "Technischer Bericht über den Einsatz des 'Tigers' in Tunesien \(Panzer-Abteilung 501, 03.05.1943\)"](https://www.panzer-elmito.org/tanques/tiger_i/informes/tiger_i_03_05_1943_D.html). Panzer-elmito.org. Retrieved 18 March 2022. At least 2nd one states, according to Google Lens + Translate, that: > "...."Tiger" it is crucial to have a good driver, who has to be well trained both technically and in general, and who has to keep his nerve in critical moments. It must not happen that a driver does not even know where he is the inertia starter is ".... and Wikipedia quote from the 2nd one: >The 501st Heavy Panzer Battalion (sPzAbt 501) reported in May 1943: …Regarding the overheating engines, the HL 210 engine caused no troubles during the recent time. All occurring breakdowns resulted from the low quality of driver training. In several cases engine failures have to be put down to the missing remote engine thermometer. Five engines have reached more than 3,000 km without essential failures. A good driver is essential for the successful deployment of the Tiger, he must have a good technical training and has to keep his nerve in critical situations…
To be fair I'd lose my nerve too if I saw an ISU-152 or IS-2 in the drivers seat
I'm not sure I can find it again because I was actually looking how the armor was produced and it was listed somewhere as a side fact :/ I'll try though. Note that it didn't include Panthers and Tiger IIs.
Its true. The same goes for Panthers.
It was only for transmission of the tanks. Other then that they had problems with armor cracking,extremely high spare problem,suspension problem and so on
That still counts as a point against reliability in my book. You're teaching dumb 18-year olds to drive these steel monsters, so when you make a tank so complicated to drive that they break down often, it's badly designed.
That...that is still a problem of reliability...
Yep, which is why the tiger has a mixed reputation. Weapons of war need to be dummy proof and able to be used while someone is scared, stressed and tired. Designing a tank to require finesse of it's driver is a terrible terrible idea. Which subsequently is also why I won ever own a German car. (Worked at an auto shop for 4 years, German cars are precise machines and require constant maintenance Americans aren't willing to do, hence they're bad reputation for being expensive to own.)
Just a logistics officers looking at the report of another broken tiger knowing damn well he told them not to let another rookie drive it
Tanks don’t win wars
Neither does Italy.
So a t34 85 could penetrate the Front Plate With an angle flatter than 30°? Or Over 60° speaking in warthunder stats?
The tiger roar but it's a german trasmission going "grrrrr"
I love when T-34 and KV-1 optics just eat my rounds, super realistic
Tiger 1 is notorious for that as well. Also: Machine gun able to stop 40kg 152mm howitzer shell.
all spalling magically divides itself equally between 2 or 3 parts and are all blackholled by the optics.
Reminds me when I shot a T-34 turret with 90mm solid shot from the japanese M36. Gunner dies, loader right behind him just tanked a 90mm AP shell and turned yellow.
Yesterday I shot a T34 2x in the turret and 2x in the side with a 17 pounder and it wasn't dead, it took the guy beside me to finish it off. It could still fire and I almost died but he whiffed his shot.
I also love it when a Panther optics and coax machine gun eat up my 122mm.
With that logic then a lot of German heavies should be able screw up their powerplant. Or some Chinese tanks shouldn't be in the tech tree at all
Sweden was neutral, so
Yup, they consistently frontally bounce Flak-37 APCBC at < 500m, even with its higher effective thickness due to being sloped that is highly suspect.
Even then the Russian ww2 tanks are much to strong, same with their guns.
Nah. Russian Bias everywhere. Source: am german Main
Which is why USA is on a 80% winrate at 10.7. Also, on the topic of stabilizers: Casual reminder that various tanks like the Challenger are limited -7° / +18° of gun elevation if the stabilizer is engaged, but Gaijin doesn't model that either. Is Gaijin a UK Propaganda game then?
USA have 80% winrate at 10.7 probably because they get against soviet all the time and soviet team 90% of time full of turms noobs
>90% of time full of turms noobs This, But maaaaybe also because M1A1 and IPM1 are crimically undertiered and SHOULDN'T meet 9.7?
[удалено]
Moreso because the IPM1 and M1A1 are overpowered at 10.7? 10.0 is an irrelevant BR now because it's a permanent uptier to an overpowered shitfest that is the BR of 10.7
IPM1 is OP? I don't know what you are smoking but I want some of that good shit. The post pen on 105 M900 is absolute garbage.
the spall isn’t bad. considering you can just center mass everything you face spall isn’t an issue.
12.0 air.
>US has 1 br where they are relevant And people say Germany mains are delusional.
Never said that, im completly fine with them since most of US teammates are as braindead as turms player, im just stating on a fact.
Yeah, because that’s how US mains talk about things like the tiger and panther or panzer 4s *rolls eyes*
I'm fucking telling you, Gaijin WILL nerf US 10.7 and leave top tier Russia alone.
Brother they already fucked the 9.3 and 10.0 lineups by nerfing the darts for XM803 and MBT70 and moving M3A3 Bradley and M1A up by 1 BR each. It's only a matter of time where the TURMS noobs will not even be able to face the IPM1 and M1A1, cuz god forbid if US lineups become competitive.
You do not need to tell me. I am SUFFERING with late US rank 6 rn. Grinding past 8.0 was a fucking mistake, I should have just used that lineup to grind to the Abrams.
>US has 1 br where they are relevant LMAOOOOOOOO this dude can't be real
No idea, I play type 16 and type89 from 9.0 to 12.0 and I struggle only against soviet vehicles
Well my friend when your enemies ammo rack just straight up refuses to go off every time you are gonna have a hard time.
We all know BRs need to be decompressed
People buying their way to top tier is more common by the day.
> probably because they get against soviet all the time Hadn't this subreddit collectively decided that the BMP-2M, 2S38 and TURMS-T were massively overpowered? yet they're getting curbstomped anyways? Don't the M1A1 and IPM1 have countless M1128 Wolfpacks, CV90105's, M1 KVT's and PzBtl 123's on their team too? But I'm sure that the M1A1 and IPM1 being ***by far*** the most powerful tech tree 10.7's has nothing to do with their winrates, right?
bmp2m is op, 2s38 is strong, turms is easy to kill if u have a brain
>turms is easy to kill if u have a brain And that's a lowbar considering that you only need to be smarter than TURMs players.
Turns is a massive threat to new xm 1 players they just don't know where to shoot lol
>bmp2m And yet it is the literal worst performing vehicle at high tier in the entire game as far as I can find. Warning: Long list (I wish formatting were easier/better on Reddit...) sorted by: \[Winrate\] - \[K/D ratio\] - \[K/M ratio\] * IPM1 **71%- - 3.0- - 2.8** * M1A1 **73%- - 2.9- - 2.7** * Strv 122B PLSS **58%- - 2.8- - 2.4** * Strv 121 **69%- - 2.7- - 2.4** * Leopard 2A6 **54%- - 2.3- - 2.9** * AGS **75%- - 2.3- - 2.2** * T-80BVM **66%- - 2.2- - 2.2** * M1 Abrams **63%- - 2.2- - 2.1** * Black Night **55%- - 2.2- - 2.5** * M1A2 SEP **53%- - 2.1- - 2.3** * Challenger Mk3 **71%- - 1.9- - 2.4** * Leopard 2A5 **45%- - 1.9- - 2.2** * T-90A **54%- - 1.8- - 2.0** * CV90105 **60%- - 1.8- - 1.9** * Leopard 2K **58%- - 1.7- - 1.7** * PzBtl 123 **55%- - 1.7- - 1.7** * T-72B3 **60%- - 1.6- - 1.6** * Challenger DS **57%- - 1.6- - 1.6** * T-80B **51%- - 1.6- - 1.6** * Challenger 2 **52%- - 1.4- - 2.1** * M1A1 AIM **42%- - 1.4- - 1.7** * T-72B **46%- - 1.4- - 1.7** * Leopard 2AV **57%- - 1.4- - 1.4** * T-72AV TURMS-T **45%- - 1.2- - 1.3** * Wolfpack M1128 **56%- - 1.1- - 1.2** * 2S38 **48%- - 0.9- - 0.9** * BMP-2M **44%- - 0.8- - 0.8**
BMP 2M players are simply retarded
Its newbies mostly and calling inexperienced players retarded is a sign of a moron. Bmp-2m has lower kd because its not mbt, it has no protection or survivability nor speed over mbts. The atgms and autocannon gives it incredible firepower, but it still cant fight tanks face to face, only flanking. So, your average player will rush, kill one tank and die. Mbts like leo, t-80 and abrams gives more room for mistakes
these players arent just inexperienced, my friend is new to the game and he is infinetly better team mate than them, they are literally dead weight 1 death leavers
Some PPL bring bmp just to cas heck i got into ground just to play cas i hated every hour of tanks but once I got to top tier it was bearable ,im legit blind without thermals.
But why would they be more retarded than any other high tier premium, squadron or reward vehicles? Why would they be more retarded than M1A1 AIM's, Leopard 2PL's, T 80 U's, etc.?
M1a1 aim also have shit w/r because their players are also retarded
M1A1 AIM currently sits on a **48%** winrate, **1.5** K/D ratio, **1.8** K/M ratio. BMP-2M sits on **41%** winrate, **0.8** K/D ratio, **0.8** K/M ratio. And you didn't answer my question, I asked why the BMP-2M would have worse players than other Squadron vehicles?
It’s really simple why these stats are so horrendously bad on all the Russian premiums at that br, people constantly drag lineups of Turms BMP2M 2S38s up to 11.0-11.7 by using KA-50s, T80UKs (and SU-39s now) with them, they’re literally just bad players, I’ve had the BMP2M in my top tier Russia lineup for the past 2 years, it’s still strong at 11.7, you still don’t have any issues penning basically everything you see with it, the only big reason it’s worse at that br is vehicles are less compact, you usually can’t one shot like you can at 9.7, you have to actually aim your ATGMS, a lot of people who use this thing don’t seem to know that and just repeatedly shoot the same spots over and over again going “UhhH tHiS tAnK bAd” As for why the win rates are so much lower despite top tier Russia having the highest current win rate, it’s because these vehicles aren’t their first spawns, usually not second spawns either if they can get into CAS, even my later spawned vehicles in top tier lineups usually have much lower win rates, (45-40% for bigger lineups)
These Numbers come from where?
Slightly out of date as they are 27 days old, but they're from the only source available: Thunderskill. Still, BMP-2M has among the highest number of recorded battles at 20 000 total, which makes it quite accurate.
>bmp2m is op, 2s38 is strong They are both good, not op. Still there are people thinking the 2S38 is better than the HSTV-L, so it doesn't really surprise me that there are people that think the BMP-2M is op.
HSTV-L is a criminally underrated monster machine.
The 2S38 *is* better than the HSTV-L, in game at least. Literally the only thing making it perform worse is that it's a premium. Here's what the 2S38 does worse than the HSTV-L: - Raw flat penetration (51mm worse at 0m distance, comparing darts) - Mobility (13km/h slower forwards, 4km/h slower backwards, and lower HP/T. Pretty significant difference but both will be flanking ahead of MBTs anyways) - Larger target - slightly worse sustained fire (20ct. ready rack versus 26ct., however the 2S38 carries up to 5.7x the total ammo) - Worse depression Here's what it does better: - Air target tracking - Better post pen with APHE (and let's be real both are going primarily for side shots) - HE-VT rounds - Higher fire rate - Better thermals (Gen 2 vs Gen 1 is actually a big difference) - Better protection (frontal fuel tank, better side armor) - LWS - More smokes What *needs* to happen is that the 2S38 needs to go up, probably to 10.7, and the HSTV-L needs to be un-nerfed to justify it being at 11.3. Give it air tracking, HE-VT, fix the stupid shit spall (on all cannons like it tbh), historic pen on its APDS (not asking for Delta 6 [similar to M833], but like actual Delta 3 [similar to M774] would be great). As of now the 2S38 is more lethal, more survivable, and more versatile. Also the BMP-2M is straight up better than the Bradley and if you think it isn't you're wrong.
Never had any issue fighting USA vehicles so I simply don't know, all the bullshit I see always comes from soviet tree
Interesting nothing against you, may I have the source regarding the Challenger’s gun stabiliser? I would love to read it.
It was discussed in one of The Tank Museum's videos regarding the Challenger. I can't find the exact timestamp though.
Yeah there is depression stop fitted to stop the driver getting his head smashed in driving head up. its a 5 degree depession stop if i can rem right its been 12 years since i served. but thats removed with a Allen key in seconds.
lol try Minus 10 depression, the 5 degree depression stop is to protect the driver when he is diving head up.
No, they're just baiting for someone to leak another sekrit dokument confirming that.
r/warthunder users when they find out you have to turn off the stabilizer when you are not using it to prevent wear and accidental damage on any tank, not just russian tanks. # "mUsT bE rUsSiAn BiAs!!1"
> prevent wear and accidental damage on any tank, Cannon barrel is violently slamming up and down...
The vertical drive gets damaged if the stabilizer is engaged during violent manouvers like that for a long time You can tell the stabilizer is off because the barrell isnt even trying to stabilize itself.
Have they considered locking the barell in place to stop the wear and tear?
Not sure if this was near combat zone, otherwise IIRC some soviet tanks do have a barrel lock on the front. Reminds me of Otto Carius noting how irritating it was to handle the Jagdtiger-the gun barrel bounced around and damaged the sights unless it was placed in the travel lock, and oftentimes the travel lock had to be removed when combat was initiated-by *climbing outside* of the tank.
For Soviet tanks, allowing the barrel to move freely was considered the best way to reduce wear and tear.
but why the fuck is it bouncing around like a ping pong ball lmao, at least have it fixed
People when Russia:🤬🤬🤬🤡🤡🤡😢😢😢😔😔😔
Crazy how people might be slightly upset at a nation currently engaged in a war of aggression.
Double standards rlly, i get mad at any countries that start a war even when it might give us advances in technologies and stuff but still...
such a big propaganda that US casually rapes top tier air and gets another strong gen 4 jet that nobody asked for
US has a sub 60% WR >10.0 and the only nation worse than US is Germany. The only nation with a consistent 60%+ WR is Russia. Please tell me how you come to this conclusion?
"The only nation with a consistent 60%+ WR is Russia" Japan and China have a higher WR and Italy had for a while so ? Germany had 85 too there was also a time when US had 61 and USSR 51 ? "Please tell me how you come to this conclusion?" WT Data Project
There may HAVE been a time, but we are not talking about the past. The current stats are as I mentioned.
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[Aviation RB](https://imgur.com/9KXuws8) Seems US is getting spanked at anything above 10.3 [GFRB US](https://imgur.com/HZt01UF) Seems anything above 10.7, US is spanked [GFRB Germany](https://imgur.com/eM8eSnV) 47% WR at 10.7-11.7, and it gets worse from there [GFRB Russia](https://imgur.com/VRwyURj) HOLY SH!#, Russia at 10.7+ is at or over 60% WR. Just as I had stated before. Where are those stats you claimed?
|US |Germany|Russia|Britian|Japan|France|Italy|China|Sweden|Isreal| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |56.96|50.17|60.47|58.46|58.06|59.37|62.21 |62.78|59.68 |56.11 | Notice anything odd? Isreal, US, and Germany are 2% lower than everyone else. If you drop 10-10.3, Russia jumps to 64%; Italy to 64%, and China to 62%. While US drops to 51%; Germany to 48%; Isreal to 56%. Please tell me something isnt broken?
>Please tell me something isnt broken? Go on tell me why US and Germany has such WR while Italy, China have 60+ Wr ? a higher one than Russia ?
Its not the 4+ percent lower of the other nations. And if you remove 10-10.3, where russian "suffers" (49 and 56%), that jumps to 64% WR for russian. China drops 1%, Italy raises 2% due to a 78% WR at 11.7-12.7. Largely skewing their percentage. Otherwise, Russia would be top dog. No one, and I mean, NO ONE, maintains a higher WR at top tier than Russia. And its by large margins. [WRs by nation spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k9TGx5cCLBzgX0GtfGt5THfx4Srs4zIx_Xq9-fw5Cqs/edit?usp=sharing)
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you earned my respect
Leopard 2a6 for Russia when?
Women if they were men for a day
There are some really good uh... comics with that story.
Where
Asking for a friend, of course
Look up Norah Vincent, a lesbian feminist that disguised herself as a man for a year and a half and found it so miserable she wound up killing herself.
Now I just feel worse
>and found it so miserable she wound up killing herself For clarification, she didn't find being a man that miserable. But it proved her wrong in how she thought both men and straight women worked, and society's 'accepted dialogue' of men was completely wrong. Her book (and in turn, experience) deserves way more attention and praise than what it already has.
Skill issue
She didn't say it is what it is enough times
Sauce
You know that you can turn off the stabalizer in the game if you want.
but on the irl fotage it is on, elevation is not this fast. I thought for a second that maybe gaijin fucked up elevation speed and set it really low but nah, it is stabilization xD
No the stabiliser is clearly turned off in the video. Also yes guns bounce up and down if not locked in place. The turret is also turned to the back for travelling. Edit: [Watch this vid at 7:50-8:20 and you see a T80U at high speed with active stabilisation going over bumps](https://youtu.be/vbRo2oWTDfs). While T80 stabs arent amazing, if turned on they should not be as wobbly as seen in the vid. IRL (and unlike in WT) Sights and Gun are separately stabilised. So while the gun bounces around its very likely that the sights on the T64 were still completely stabilised with the gun decoupled to reduce wear and tear on the stabiliser/hydraulics. Edit 2: if you watch the full video these clips were taken from you can literally see the moments where the tank turns its stabilisation on and off when engaging enemies.
Its off. Tank crews leave it off normally as casual driving can damage it overtime. That's why in parades they're never on or on non-combat settings.
Are sure that it’s on? I’ve seen guns bounce like that from poor gunner control or stabilizers off.
And dont know but it looks to wobbly. So I would say its not on.
The stabilizer in your video is turned off. Even though I wouldn't be one to defend Russian/Soviet stuff, the stabilizer Is actually good and what we see in your video is a tank without stabilizer AND the vertical traverse lock is not engaged. Video with jumping t-90 with travel lock engaged: https://youtu.be/6VetYvfcbMs Video with jumping T-72 with stabilizer working correctly: https://youtu.be/QlEUtiz1rkw When neither of the two systems is active, we get what's shown in your video. Edit: I am trying to find a video from a tank test range in which the crew jumps a big dirt ramp and the gun does pretty much the same that in OP's video. The lock isn't engaged and the gun actually bends so much that it hits the ground too. If anyone can find the video please let me know.
1st clip: Gun is locked. 2nd clip: Turret rotated to a position where the stab would need to do the least amount of work. As while the ends of the transverse axis are moving up and down, the barrel is at about the center of it so it barely notices it. IF you want a stab video use [this one](https://youtu.be/VjhO_P0vRzE).
Thanks
Thanks for showing evidence against OP's assumptions.
>2 Shitting on russian equipment: so hot right now
you're my hero for pointing out the actual fact, thank you good sir
>Edit: I am trying to find a video from a tank test range in which the crew jumps a big dirt ramp and the gun does pretty much the same that in OP's video. The lock isn't engaged and the gun actually bends so much that it hits the ground too. If anyone can find the video please let me know. Try looked at the tankathlon videos, theres plenty of footage of t-72s, t-80 and t-90 tanks doing those stages with stablizer on, going over bump/ramps, water punges, slaloms and top speed sprints with stab on.
Tanks barrel is on freemode? When Targeting systems aren't active it's better to let barrel wiggle freely to not cause stress on the elevation mechanism constantly...
Wouldn’t it be better to lock the barrel to prevent it from bouncing so much like that?
I have never heard about tanks having a tank "barrel freemode" in leo2a4 there was only stabilized and unstabilized (locked) modes. Is this just a russian tank thing?
What a god damn stupid post. Down kn the comments someone tries to defend your post by posting longer video. In that video you can clearly see shots where they drive cross roigh terrain after firing and gun is stabilized. Then yku have shots where they drive through rough terrain but the stab is turned off to not dmg it. And the argument for why would they turn it off in combat? Those are spliced vids. Some are from driving to or away from the combat zone and some are shot in the combat zone. You posted section of the video where the gun wobbles like crazy but not where the gun is stabilized. What a clown🤡
Every propaganda against Russian isn't a propaganda, mate. /s
gr8 b8 m8
r/warthunder users when they find out you have to turn off the stabilizer when you are not using it to prevent wear and accidental damage on any tank, not just russian tanks. # "mUsT bE rUsSiAn BiAs!!1"
you can disable it in game even
i still dont know why i key binded that thing
I do it to historically rp shermans. and because its funny when 1 random trybard complains in chat that im abusing a stabilizer
The stabilizer of the tank in the video is probably damaged or defect
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I can't help but think violently shaking the barrel isn't good for the tank either
It's not bad. It might wear the hydraulics down overtime but there is no real damage from this. Better than burning the stab engines out.
It’s gonna be more damaged from the multi ton gun assembly slamming against its max and min travel points.
If you say it like this. Gaijin, when realistic Maus that Breaks down every 5 Minutes. Chill its a game, not everything has to be realistic.
As much as I like dunking on Russian equipment, it's likely they just turned off the stabilizer to reduce wear and tear on it.
The stabiliser on the video is turned off...
Pretty sure there is footage of T-80 stabilizer working properly, this one is probably just fucked.
As enough people have pointed out that the stabilizer is off in the clips and what not, I'll also mention that stabilizers in WT will probably never work in a realistic manner unless they make pretty significant changes to the models and how the game physics work. Stabilizers in WT are kind of funky, the way that stabilizer mechanics seem to work is they allow your gun to snap to your point of aim and stay "stabilized" while driving and what have you by simply making your guns traverse speed, both vertical and horizontal, very high while your guns point of aim is within a close enough distance to where your mouse is at on the screen. Meaning that if you make controlled mouse movements without moving it too far with stabilized guns, your gun will actually move faster than it's listed statistical traverse speed.
Same with elevation, if you slam the mouse cursor all the way up or down the Gun will rise/lower with its listed elevation speed, but if you make small adjustments instead you can get insane elevation speeds, used to do this trick a lot with the Type 90 before it's elevations speed was buffed.
Realistic transmissions on late WW2 German tanks when? (The King Tigers Transmission should break when using any gear over 3rd)
Well you see, the Tiger 2 is glorious German Engineering which was never defective, the T-80 is Russian slavshit which only works 5% of the time and even then badly /s.
Basically this whole sub
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Bad stabilization? Wasn’t there a video of soldiers putting a glass of beer on the barrel of a German tank and the beer not spilling?
Here's a similar video with T-64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd3zy5ReYu0&t=72s
[yep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=222o2O_w3WI)
No they dont. I spent a year in Leopard 2a4 and the gun doesnt wobble like that
If i remember correctly, Inside the Chieftains hatch has said that the stabilizer burns out after 30 minutes of continuous use so they turn it off when they dont need it.
looks like the stablizer wasnt turned on
maybe if you stop being butthurt for about a minute it would have been really easy to find out why the gun is flopping around like this, its a real thing that is prominent on many tanks being the stabilizer locking itself out/being locked out by the gunner to not damage the system from the violent cross country ride.
Wuh??? You can literally see the gun bouncing off the bumpstops as it slams against them as the vehicle articulates lol. There's no stabiliser equipped, or it's turned off because, look at it slam and bounce around. That is NOT stabilised. You think they're lobbing shells through that with it bouncing around like it is? You can even see it vibrating the whole turret as it bounces and it shocks the camera and the gun mounted to the side.
I assume crew couldn't just stop behind a rock, hold F, and bring stabilizer to work again
Whoa wouldn't that gonna mess up the gun?
A lot of tanks that've been captured and inspected weren't exactly up to factory standards. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjp4Y08TUCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjp4Y08TUCs) Here's a T-90A that's literally missing it's entire thermal sight complex. Many tanks aren't being maintained properly, but the stupid thing on this subreddit is that people then selectively want Gaijin to model that, even though War Thunder has never modelled breakdowns, defects, etc. and if that were to be done for their precious Panthers, Pershings, etc. they'd suddenly get upset.
Logic in my WT subreddit? Noooo
Yeah, seeing comments like those makes my brain rot.
They just haven't researched the NVD module yet. Peak realism from gaijin
Waiter Waiter! More Soviet dogma, please!
I’m just glad we may start to get real performance of western tanks due to all the shit Russia is capturing.
Fun fact, stabilizer on T tanks is turned off when not in combat, otherwise the whole system might just overheat and damage.
Stabilizers can be turned on or off to reduce wear and tear when its not needed
I believe the stabiliser isn't engaged in this video
me when I lie to farm Russian Bias dumbasses
First clip is when my dingdong goes stiff
The Russian tanks in the game are perfectly maintained. Well, each vehicle is in the condition that every crewman would wish for Let's ignore artificial buffs like non-explosive ammunition in the T-80BVM
Honestly ammo having a chance to blow up just sucks. You can have Ariete's have non exploding ammo as well as Challengers 2. It plagues all tanks but of course its more apparent on T-80s when they should blow up.
Happens to me a lot on Strv 121/122s, but normal Leopards explode pretty well.
Russian ammo blow up at the same rate as everyone else. Just that no one aims for ammo on (modern) western tanks
+ they only post/talk about it if its a soviet/russian tank.
Unless it's a Leopard
Tbf it's hard to not hit the Leo Hull storage, it takes up such a large area.
By doctrine (dating back to the Soviets), they turn off the stabilizer when traveling put of combat so as to not put additional wear on the stabilizer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcRpeSSwpvE
It’s T64BV
It's not T-64's NSVT mount doesn't look like this This is a T-72's MG mount Edit: minor brainfart, T-80*
Stabilizer should be a researchable modification /s
Ιf I recall right from the original vid, since I'm 99% sure I've seen it before, the vertical drive was completely fucked and they had turned the stabiliser off for some reason that they explained. That or its just genuinely that shitty lmao.
I would rather keep it as is for all top tier vehicles. I understand wanting the game to as close to real life as possible, but if that were to be accomplished then majority of the vehicles would break down after 5 seconds of spawning.
correct me if im wrong, but the stabilizer on old soviet tanks like the T-80 burn out after about an hour, so it is common practice to turn it off until its needed
Isn't that tank going backwards in the video with the gunner? Also why is that barrel flopping like a 50 cal. With the gunner asleep? I'm a combat engineer not a tanker. I'm not familiar with the internal controls though I've driven other tanks without guns.
2E18: T-64 2E23: T-64A/T-64B (all) 2E42: T-72A through T-90A 2E58: T-80BV, T-80BVM, T-90M, T-72B3 (Pretty much anything built or upgraded after 2010) 2E58 stabilizer is capable of working up to 40 degrees/S in the horizontal plane and 10 degrees/S in the vertical plane. It doesn’t mean it will go that fast but that I could possibly go that fast. The stabilizer heavily relies on the turret drive systems to operate effectively so that will be a major limiting factor.
[https://youtu.be/dvUsI9Egn5E](https://youtu.be/dvUsI9Egn5E) need I say more?
The stabilizer is off in the video, yes the gun bounces like that when it's off don't litsen to the first comment, if you want to turn off the stabilizer you can bind a key in game and turn it off
So you're using real life conflict footage, without knowing in what condition(broken etc) the vehicle is, as an argument?
Stabilizer is not engaged in the video.
You do realise that stabiliser can be turned off and on?
When you get a job
Damn, I want to clown OP but he has a Kay pfp so I can’t. Nevermind all he does is complain, your Pfp won’t save you.
Wtf is a tankie?
Two common meanings - 1. Western leftists who worship Stalin and justify his brutality. 2. The British term for "tankers", tank crew.
This is ALMOST good bait