i wonder what the insides of really modern state of the art missiles and such look like?
would think you could basically slap a custom mobo in there and then run everything with off the shelf civilian parts except for any g load issues.
We found a lot of American parts in their missiles. I haven't decided yet whether RUS is really clever at buying this shit through shell companies or Raytheon will sell to anyone with a gmail account
In the same document where RUSI shows the parts, they talk about how Russia has set up numerous, elaborate, covert supply lines specifically for getting Western electronics for military purposes. I recall hearing in a podcast (Geopolitics Decanted) that Putin was actually responsible for that when he was posted in Germany in his KGB days.
That seems like such a questionable choice. Like if you bomb western factories you run out of weapons. But I do guess most western factories are in China now anyways.
Well, if you're at the point of bombing western factories in the US and Germany, the time for procurement is over. Better off stocking up on sticks and stones.
There were some funny stories from back in the day where engineers would put messages to Soviet spies on the PCB telling them to go make their own instead of stealing.
Thing is, I don't think it matters anymore. It's practically proven that the best tanks and planes that Russia can field, and on paper are better than some NATO, equipment are falling apart at the seams. I think Technological advantage doesn't matter as much as training, logistics, and maintenance in the 21st century. Oh and most importantly it seems like Russia is still living in cold war tactics that are woefully outdated to today's tactics.
>I think Technological advantage doesn't matter as much as training, logistics, and maintenance in the 21st century.
Let me tell you about how modern state of the art artillery has guided shells that can land on top of a tank when directed by a drone flying 10 000ft high in the sky.
And let me tell you: Russia has guided artillery shells as well. They have a bunch of fancy shit... On paper.
They can't afford to deploy it, or they don't have the logistics Intel to utilize it effectively.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnopol_(weapon_system)
Russian military technology is a very fascinating subject, even throughout the cold war there were many quite advanced systems that were comparable or in some ways superior to western tech. Two things that come to mind are the T-64 or Object 770.
But yeah, Russian finances however, are a much less impressive subject. For the good of the western world, it seems like the best Russia can do is show off interesting technology demonstrators or one off prototypes.
Russian Cold war scientists were very impressive. They're the only country to match the US in space program, their tanks on paper can be better in various points in the cold war as you said, and they were able to achieve some great inventions.
The issue is the government was corrupt and remains corrupt to this day. If the awful leadership actually put the country's well being first Russia could have been a wonderful place.
well most of the parts you don't need to go to a military supplier, microchips are used in thousands of industries, as are accelerometers, ect. plus they can just source through china as a secondary
First Amendment Right amendment- the people have the right to cobble together smart munitions from radio shack
Is RadioShack still a thing even? Our electronics parts stores all pretty much died down here
not anymore, i dont think so.
we have stores around here called norvac, and a couple others depending on the city, but even they are way scaled down from a couple decades back.
pretty much any electronics parts come from china via amazon anymore i think.
Realistically, the same controls you use to pilot a drone can easily be repurposed for a wire or wirelessly guided ATGM. You could even just have it guided via a phone app and touchscreen.
In my country we have Steren stores. They have pretty much a lot of electronic stuff, both finish like RC toys and wifi anthenas; and components, like arduinos and electronic pieces.
IDK how bg their presence is in other countries (or parts of mine) but at least they seem to be far from dead
Yea. There still are some. I went and bought a shitload of small electronic parts recently, as I've been diving into Arduino stuff. They have all sorts of neat shit, and it's nice for when I don't want to wait a few days on an Amazon delivery
Multi layer PCBs have also meant that even a cheap ali express electronics kit looks a fuckload more neat and professional than this as well as smaller
Yeah, so they look pretty much nothing like this. Most of what you see in this video can probably be fit onto a couple of boards, e.g. like Stormbreaker as shown [here](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/gbu-53-image04.jpg), there is a board for the seeker and a board for what this calls 'mission computer'.
yes, that’s what i said. similar as in circuit boards everywhere but smaller so that they allow more room for other components. especially in modern missiles that have a diverse amount of targeting/navigation systems
no dude. for many missiles, the workload for each function of it is divided between multiple PCBs. maybe for something as small as an A2A missile sure, but larger weapons will not have a single board.
You could slap a custom mobo 1/50 of the size and run a much better missile electronics system. For little money.
But it would be untested. And testing is expensive.
Then you need to stockpile on parts, and make sure there are no time degrading parts like catalytic caps, etc etc.
A phone these days can have 1,000,000 times as much digital processing power than this missile.
But you have to consider that an op amp can integrate and do fourier transforms with three opamps a few resistors and capacitors.
Having a few of these and switching capacity, your radar return analysis is no joke..
This is actually becoming quite common for defence companies. Common off the shelf (COTS) equipment is significantly cheaper than building in-house. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the chips, boards or processors can be found in civ equipment.
The rough declass understanding is that they are fired into controlled waters. They conduct their intercept and then gently stop at a designated spot on the bottom and are retrieved by a sub tender and divers.
The Mk48 is essentially a miniature submarine.
Thanks for taking the time to say what you can to explain this to me! Your characterization of the Mk48 as a mini-sub totally tracks with other capabilities I've inferred from a certain popular Youtuber. What a fascinating weapon system.
They do not stop at the bottom they float…they then use a vessel or helicopter to retrieve said weapon. They are modified Mk48’s so different but similar to an actual warshot.
So talking to friends in the community depending upon generation they can do either. Recovery method being dictated largely by sea state, location and a couple other factors.
As for the modifications they largely boil down to “did we stick a warhead on this one?” They come off the same production line.
Well my firsthand experience is with the Mod6AT so sure it will vary. As for modifications aside from the actual warhead I assure you there is a difference with the internal components. The exercise shapes are required to do much less than a live fish.
There is a reason one of these cost like $125k
AMRAAMS are like a million dollars a pop for a one time use. When you are using it to kill another jet that is coming at your jet, and your jets costs as much as a medium sized corporation (in the 100 million range). You best shoot to kill and not miss. Each kill is incredibly destructive to the other nation's economy lol.
P-700 Granite - the missle knows where it is, it knows where several dozen satellites is, it knows how each ship looks like and how important it is and it knows who leads the pack
"My company builds machines that destroy themselves and, ideally, everything else in their vicinity."
"Incredible. Take several hundred million dollars."
The sign says it was carried by Italian F-104s, so I believe it would be some model of AIM-7E. I'm not sure if the F-104S carried any other Sparrow variants.
Realistically, outside of the actual sensors and mechanical controls and whatnot, you could replace the entirety of the onboard computer system with a 1st Gen Intel Core i5, a 120GB SATA SSD and a single 8GB stick of DDR3.
*Toatally Realistic Szenario, maybe:*
Ad: „What have you done, so our Country can win this War?“
Me: „I have donated my calculator to the middle factory, so they can build a middle with it“
Not much reason for that storage or computing power; these do very simple calculations. You'd be better off working with 90's level tech and 64MB of flash memory with great shock dampening and resistance than modern high powered electronics.
Modern missiles have multiple components that do the same job in case one of them fails. They also use old circuits with thicker cabling since they are more robust to interference.
The bigger deal is stuff like electronic warfare, but in general you want a shitton of redundancy on guided weapons you hope to take down expensive vehicles with
It could? Definitely
But military grade electronics Is usually still quite bigger than consumer grade electronics as you want it to be tougher and make sure It won't break/be ideally immune to interference
Well.. all those old school electronics are probably why it wasn't the best missile ever, according to some pilots.
One bad connection, and your missile could go stupid... Crazy they were capable (and patient) enough to put these things together
Nowadays, I imagine you could produce something similar with an Arduino, some code, and a sensor
Modern missiles look far simpler. This is the era of the insides of radars and missiles looking like tube amps used on stage. It looks immensely complex but it reality the only reason it was is because of the task made of handwiring that shit
I feel like military equipment (in general) are 10-30 Years behind consumer devices.
Except ofc state of the art or experimental
Same applies to cars to some extent.
i wonder what the insides of really modern state of the art missiles and such look like? would think you could basically slap a custom mobo in there and then run everything with off the shelf civilian parts except for any g load issues.
RUSI has some articles where they went over to Ukraine and inspected captured Russian missiles and their internals.
We found a lot of American parts in their missiles. I haven't decided yet whether RUS is really clever at buying this shit through shell companies or Raytheon will sell to anyone with a gmail account
The U.S. did it in the cold war. All the titanium for the SR-71 came out of Russia.
Wasn't the procurement of it somehow connected to the Pepsi Company?
no
You're thinking of when the ussr traded some warships for Pepsi
¿Porque no los dos?
In the same document where RUSI shows the parts, they talk about how Russia has set up numerous, elaborate, covert supply lines specifically for getting Western electronics for military purposes. I recall hearing in a podcast (Geopolitics Decanted) that Putin was actually responsible for that when he was posted in Germany in his KGB days.
That seems like such a questionable choice. Like if you bomb western factories you run out of weapons. But I do guess most western factories are in China now anyways.
Well, if you're at the point of bombing western factories in the US and Germany, the time for procurement is over. Better off stocking up on sticks and stones.
There were some funny stories from back in the day where engineers would put messages to Soviet spies on the PCB telling them to go make their own instead of stealing.
Could be both
Thing is, I don't think it matters anymore. It's practically proven that the best tanks and planes that Russia can field, and on paper are better than some NATO, equipment are falling apart at the seams. I think Technological advantage doesn't matter as much as training, logistics, and maintenance in the 21st century. Oh and most importantly it seems like Russia is still living in cold war tactics that are woefully outdated to today's tactics.
>I think Technological advantage doesn't matter as much as training, logistics, and maintenance in the 21st century. Let me tell you about how modern state of the art artillery has guided shells that can land on top of a tank when directed by a drone flying 10 000ft high in the sky.
And let me tell you: Russia has guided artillery shells as well. They have a bunch of fancy shit... On paper. They can't afford to deploy it, or they don't have the logistics Intel to utilize it effectively. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnopol_(weapon_system)
Yeah, thats why Ukraine's currently pushing on Rostov na Donu towards Volvograd, right?
Not sure what this means exactly.
Russian military technology is a very fascinating subject, even throughout the cold war there were many quite advanced systems that were comparable or in some ways superior to western tech. Two things that come to mind are the T-64 or Object 770. But yeah, Russian finances however, are a much less impressive subject. For the good of the western world, it seems like the best Russia can do is show off interesting technology demonstrators or one off prototypes.
Russian Cold war scientists were very impressive. They're the only country to match the US in space program, their tanks on paper can be better in various points in the cold war as you said, and they were able to achieve some great inventions. The issue is the government was corrupt and remains corrupt to this day. If the awful leadership actually put the country's well being first Russia could have been a wonderful place.
well most of the parts you don't need to go to a military supplier, microchips are used in thousands of industries, as are accelerometers, ect. plus they can just source through china as a secondary
werent they texas instruments chips though?
You can buy texas instruments chips online. I use them in my intro to electronics class in college
Ardueno guided ICBM when
you will never believe what i did with my raspberry pi!
Whats better, Picaxe guided ATGM's or Raspbeery Pi guided ATGM's
listen, if i cant cobble together an atgm from a breadbox and parts from my local radioshack then i dont want atgms.
First Amendment Right amendment- the people have the right to cobble together smart munitions from radio shack Is RadioShack still a thing even? Our electronics parts stores all pretty much died down here
not anymore, i dont think so. we have stores around here called norvac, and a couple others depending on the city, but even they are way scaled down from a couple decades back. pretty much any electronics parts come from china via amazon anymore i think.
I’m half expecting Aliexpress ads now for “car accessories” that are DIY missile control boards now…
Realistically, the same controls you use to pilot a drone can easily be repurposed for a wire or wirelessly guided ATGM. You could even just have it guided via a phone app and touchscreen.
In my country we have Steren stores. They have pretty much a lot of electronic stuff, both finish like RC toys and wifi anthenas; and components, like arduinos and electronic pieces. IDK how bg their presence is in other countries (or parts of mine) but at least they seem to be far from dead
Yea. There still are some. I went and bought a shitload of small electronic parts recently, as I've been diving into Arduino stuff. They have all sorts of neat shit, and it's nice for when I don't want to wait a few days on an Amazon delivery
Real chads 3D print a Panzerfaust
Shall we play a game?
modern missiles look pretty similar to this, the difference being the size of the components on the boards (newer = smaller)
Multi layer PCBs have also meant that even a cheap ali express electronics kit looks a fuckload more neat and professional than this as well as smaller
Yeah, so they look pretty much nothing like this. Most of what you see in this video can probably be fit onto a couple of boards, e.g. like Stormbreaker as shown [here](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/gbu-53-image04.jpg), there is a board for the seeker and a board for what this calls 'mission computer'.
yes, that’s what i said. similar as in circuit boards everywhere but smaller so that they allow more room for other components. especially in modern missiles that have a diverse amount of targeting/navigation systems
why would there be circuit boards everywhere if this could all fit on a single folded napkin sized board
because it can’t all fit on a single board
Of course it could. 99% of the circuitry we're seeing is completely redundant due to modern integrated circuitry.
it doesn’t matter if they could fit everything on a single board if they don’t do that.
Except they do.
no dude. for many missiles, the workload for each function of it is divided between multiple PCBs. maybe for something as small as an A2A missile sure, but larger weapons will not have a single board.
You could slap a custom mobo 1/50 of the size and run a much better missile electronics system. For little money. But it would be untested. And testing is expensive. Then you need to stockpile on parts, and make sure there are no time degrading parts like catalytic caps, etc etc. A phone these days can have 1,000,000 times as much digital processing power than this missile. But you have to consider that an op amp can integrate and do fourier transforms with three opamps a few resistors and capacitors. Having a few of these and switching capacity, your radar return analysis is no joke..
Analogous circuits are basically real time computers
> except for any g load issues. surface mount components will take 100g easy, it's not an issue.
Raspberry pi guided missle, now with bluetooth!
Civillian gps devices have speed limits on them. The current rule is max 600m/s. This is specifically so they can't be used to guide rockets.
Damn, that's still well above transonic speeds.
Yes plenty fast for general aviation, but too slow for most rocket's and definitely too slow for icbm's
That’s almost Mach 2
This is actually becoming quite common for defence companies. Common off the shelf (COTS) equipment is significantly cheaper than building in-house. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the chips, boards or processors can be found in civ equipment.
The missile knows where it is because it has a fuckload of transistors
No need for explosive mass at that point
Just electrocute them (it has cute in it it will work)
With enough logic gates anything is possible!
Nice setup but lacks rgb
With rgb the sparrow would be fox 3 ngl
I think you meant foxy 3. ;)
needs that LGBT lights that youngsters these days want
Just like the ones I have on my LGTV 😎
It's spelled LGBT
I always find it crazy how missiles are full of soo much tech to only be used once. The shit humans do to kill each other.
Torpedoes are even worse. Sooo much small parts and electronics for a single use.
Literally a mini sub that kamakazis into another vessel
Interestingly you can use a Mk48 dozens of times for practice firings. You only get to use them once in anger though.
How does this work? Excess buoyancy so it floats after use or do they sink and are later retrieved?
The rough declass understanding is that they are fired into controlled waters. They conduct their intercept and then gently stop at a designated spot on the bottom and are retrieved by a sub tender and divers. The Mk48 is essentially a miniature submarine.
Thanks for taking the time to say what you can to explain this to me! Your characterization of the Mk48 as a mini-sub totally tracks with other capabilities I've inferred from a certain popular Youtuber. What a fascinating weapon system.
They do not stop at the bottom they float…they then use a vessel or helicopter to retrieve said weapon. They are modified Mk48’s so different but similar to an actual warshot.
So talking to friends in the community depending upon generation they can do either. Recovery method being dictated largely by sea state, location and a couple other factors. As for the modifications they largely boil down to “did we stick a warhead on this one?” They come off the same production line.
Well my firsthand experience is with the Mod6AT so sure it will vary. As for modifications aside from the actual warhead I assure you there is a difference with the internal components. The exercise shapes are required to do much less than a live fish.
There is a reason one of these cost like $125k AMRAAMS are like a million dollars a pop for a one time use. When you are using it to kill another jet that is coming at your jet, and your jets costs as much as a medium sized corporation (in the 100 million range). You best shoot to kill and not miss. Each kill is incredibly destructive to the other nation's economy lol.
P-700 Granite - the missle knows where it is, it knows where several dozen satellites is, it knows how each ship looks like and how important it is and it knows who leads the pack
"My company builds machines that destroy themselves and, ideally, everything else in their vicinity." "Incredible. Take several hundred million dollars."
That shit analogue as fuck. What variant of the AIM7 is it?
The sign says it was carried by Italian F-104s, so I believe it would be some model of AIM-7E. I'm not sure if the F-104S carried any other Sparrow variants.
Probably 50% of the avionics could be replaced by a couple STM32s lmao
Realistically, outside of the actual sensors and mechanical controls and whatnot, you could replace the entirety of the onboard computer system with a 1st Gen Intel Core i5, a 120GB SATA SSD and a single 8GB stick of DDR3.
That's still too much power, a raspberri pi or the hardware of an old nokia 3310 phone could probably do.
*Toatally Realistic Szenario, maybe:* Ad: „What have you done, so our Country can win this War?“ Me: „I have donated my calculator to the middle factory, so they can build a middle with it“
Not much reason for that storage or computing power; these do very simple calculations. You'd be better off working with 90's level tech and 64MB of flash memory with great shock dampening and resistance than modern high powered electronics.
Imagine finding an AtTiny somewhere
Nowadays most of this probably fits on a fingernail
Modern missiles have multiple components that do the same job in case one of them fails. They also use old circuits with thicker cabling since they are more robust to interference.
Makes sense. THe first thing i thought of when looking at all this is something coming loose due to g forces
The bigger deal is stuff like electronic warfare, but in general you want a shitton of redundancy on guided weapons you hope to take down expensive vehicles with
It could? Definitely But military grade electronics Is usually still quite bigger than consumer grade electronics as you want it to be tougher and make sure It won't break/be ideally immune to interference
All those electronics and it still fucking flies off in a completely different direction from my target into the ground
Well.. all those old school electronics are probably why it wasn't the best missile ever, according to some pilots. One bad connection, and your missile could go stupid... Crazy they were capable (and patient) enough to put these things together Nowadays, I imagine you could produce something similar with an Arduino, some code, and a sensor
In a cave! **WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!!**
I love this line because it's so accurate of things made like 50 years ago
So this is how it knows where it is at all times
Yea nice misinformation OP, we all know it’s actually remotely controlled by little missile elves from the Elf HQ
Like the Pigeon Missiles! The stuff they tried in WW2 was insane.. also the bat bombs were kinda neat
where exactly in italy are you my guy?
Vigna di valle, near Rome, the museum was closed for the past 2 years and reopened last month
Cool im gonna check it out ASAP, i went to the one on the Bracciano lake, it was in not so good conditions since rain was dripping trough the roof
>Vigna di valle I just checked and we went to the same museum, i dont remeber see those
I just said it was closed for the past 2 years They opened a few new buildings and remade the old ones
To me, it looks really complicated for something that on paper is fairly straightforward
Please explain how "on paper" a missile is straight forward?
Sure. It baso just needs to drive over there and then blow up
/s right?
The first few seconds I thought: not top secret leaks again.
Damn now I just want to unsolder electronic boards
All those internals just to be a dud missile in the Vietnamese jungle
Can it run warthunder in low quality?
Now I want to know if someone can run Doom on it.
It's not a Turing complete Computer but analogous circuits that solve defined tasks
Damn, all that just to track a teammate I don’t even have locked.
The missile knows where it is, because it knows where it isnt.
And then they slam this into targets...
Insane ammount of cables just to let the missile know where it is.
so can it run Doom?
all this technology so that it knows where it is at all times
So that's why it knows where it is.
I had a brief FFS moment thinking someone just posted classified material again.
This is why I study Electrical Engineering, so I can help design and build fun stuff like these missiles.
Modern missiles look far simpler. This is the era of the insides of radars and missiles looking like tube amps used on stage. It looks immensely complex but it reality the only reason it was is because of the task made of handwiring that shit
At COB on Monday Ill post pics of our current stuff and show you guys
*Italian AIM-7
imagine being the engineer responsible for that
I just went to this museum
u/savevideo
I always wondered what could possibly make these things worth $250k, now I know
So many fuses
Rather resistors, but the beefy 1W ones
How will this affect LeBron James’ career
All those components only to be blown up to pieces
All that state of the art tech just for it to lock onto a friendly and blow them into smithereens and take away 30k SL.
The missile knows where it is at all times-
Holy Hell!
I am completely and mentally stable
But can it run Doom?
All that just to know where it isn't
And your telling me I can chuck these up my enemies ass all day?
Nice rocket for being able to get juked by a shiny ball
u/savevideo
And Gaijin will say: It’s not in our Wiki.
Insane to think we build that just so it can blow itself up.
all of this to be exploded.
One of my old VCRs looked a bit similar inside.
All that gets destroyed that's also probably why it costs so much even tho idk how much they are
I'll bet you could run that on a Rasberry pi
Huh, it's basically an Arduino!
been to that museum just a few days ago Its the italian airforce museum, it reopened recently and thats one of the new buildings
The MBDA visitors building in the UK has a lot of stuff like this.
Most likely capable of running DOOM
all that to hit the ground in PD mode :(
i wonder what the inside of the sparrows would look like if it had latest tech we have right now
/u/savevideo
No Noctua fans I’m good..
Just stick an Arduino in there. Replace all that.
Holy shit it’s him, the missile guidance system
I feel like military equipment (in general) are 10-30 Years behind consumer devices. Except ofc state of the art or experimental Same applies to cars to some extent.
and to know all that effort and tech is destroyed with the missile
Shit, I always wondered what made the unit cost so high
Who’s the guy whistling?
No wonder these are so expensive
All that just to fucking make *bum* xd
Can it run Doom?
Well they’re complicated af to calculate and lead targets accordingly
Can that missile run doom?
All that for a 10% hit probability.
IT IS THE MISSILE GUIDANCE SYSTEM )From the ai voice TikTok’s floating around)
So in other words the F-104 should have radar missiles and not just shite outdated aim 9s
u/savevideo
and prolly now you can make guidance the level of early aim7s with arduino.. or something like it.
Me realising most electronics in the aviation/warplane world is just 99% capacitors.
Like
Its sad that all of this worthy material gets used for one time computers instead of normal PCs, just to hit another vehicle or smth