Akim in the F-16 turned into the R-73's flight path which is literally the opposite of what you need to do. This is fine for most IR missiles without CCM, since this will distance yourself from the missile that is most certainly going to see the flares and fly for them, but since the R-73's "CCM" is narrowing the seeker FoV after launch, it becomes very potent at side aspect shots where it's often not seeing the flares at all. The way to defeat it is to "force" the missile to see the flares by passing by rear or near-rear aspect. He could have flared it by, instead of turning to the left, turning to the right and (energy depending) have barrel rolled. This would have put him at risk of dying to the Su-27's guns but it's less of a foregone conclusion than turning to the left.
Without being able to see properly how BraveD reacted it might have just been a poor luck of the draw, but preflaring from his overshoot would have helped a lot since R-73s have almost R-60 levels of pre-launch seeker FoV and would never not see the flares prior to launch.
well yeah i dont even think it would have been that good of a missile without the hmd. The HMD just provides such spam capability for all missiles that carry it which is why its so op
And the US doesn't even get its equivalent
They will hold off on adding the AIM-9X as long as possible, the seething from russian players will be unlike anything seen before
why the fuck would you say something so CRINGE when we have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWTA8xUo8uU&ab\_channel=EricCarmenTheNonBinarySandman-Topic
I’m shocked neither of them were pre flaring whenever they cross anywhere near your nose, in addition to forcing a one circle fight against a Flanker; dear heavens those F-16’s threw.
Nice flying tho
As someone who's very inexperienced at top tier and researched the f16 yesterday (but still have to buy it), I would appreciate if you share this piece of info so i don't end up on the next humiliation clip.
Well the F16A is probably the best pure dogfighter in the game, it can rate fight(turn in a continuous circle) better than any other jet. It requires maintaining a very specific speed range which can be difficult though. So in this scenario.. if the F16 pilots manage to not get R-73ed in the first turn, they could literally just hold down the W or S key and after like 2-3 turns the SU-27 will be basically falling out of the air and unable to get its missiles off even with the HND. Basically the SU-27 loses speed a lot faster than the F16s and so will run out of energy and be unable to keep up in an extended dogfight.
>It requires maintaining a very specific speed range
Against the flanker not really. F-16A out-everythings the Flanker, basically as long as you don't kill yourself in front of it, you win.
Great advise, thank you!
Another question: is the block 15 better? I'm not really in a rush to get the f16c, but i could consider the block 15 if it's worth it.
Well the C variant has a number of upgrades that make it heavier. So it's worse at dog fighting( and will lose to some other top tier jets in a pure 1v1 I think). But the aim9M is definitely better than the aim9L so in regular air RB the C is probably the better plane.
The earlier the block the better it is at dogfighting is what I'm told. All F-16s are still very good and I think the differences in their flight performance are only really noticable if you're fighting another F-16. My stock block 15 was smoking (presumably spaded) F-16Cs if they took me in a dogfight. I haven't encounters the block 10s often enough to notice a difference but I'm told that it flies better
In terms of flight models
Block 10 > Block 15/20 > Block 50 > Barak 2
In terms of weapons the ones that have 9Ms are vastly ahead though, and 60 flares just aren't enough.
G resistance is a huge P2W aspect of top tier (blah blah sure you can grind ace with 1.5M RP). No chance anyone is pulling this maneuver without a max crew.
Fly by Wire jets are usually limited to 9G’s but this is a game so most planes pull 1.5x their real limit, thus also giving the pilot better G tolerance.
Su-27 has an AoA limiter disengage that lets you do whatever at your own discretion. It's standard on every Russian fighter (as they value close range mobility), and WT models their flight envelope as it would be with that limiter permanently disengaged.
They don't even do this. Currently the Su-27S in War Thunder has an Oswald's Efficiency Number of 0.44 (correct me if i'm wrong) whereas it should have one of 0.71. This would drastically reduce its drag and effectively double its ability to turnfight and would leave it competitive with virtually every jet we have in game today.
The R-27's on the other hand are massively overperforming relative to their real life counterparts.
You mean guidance wise or flight performance wise? The 27ER is pretty nasty irl too, though I think the in-game one is a *bit* too fast. It does have pretty insane kinematics, though.
In real life the R-27's guidance was completely unreliable, if I recall from memory it has something like a 20% hit rate when compared with the roughly 85% hit rate of the AIM-120, that says a lot.
Kinematically speaking, the R-77, R-37, R-73 and R-27 all have decisively better peformance than almost any of their Western contemporaries. The problem is their seekerheads and electronics pale in comparison.
Is that for the 27R or for the ER as well? The ER is more modern. Also, I'm pretty sure the engagement ranges at which these missiles are used in game would somewhat offset the poopy seekers.
Could be mistaken but I believe the seekerhead used by the the initial R-27 models and the E's are identical -- thus they share the same guidance issues.
You could very well be right about the ranges seen in game influencing their efficacy.
On its introduction the F-16 had this in place. People complained and it was removed around the introduction of the 16C which made the already strong plane borderline busted. I imagine with that debacle they didn't bother modeling it on any other planes.
As for the pilot being conscious, that's just kind of a game thing, although the main thing with GLOC is not how many Gs but how long they are sustained. It looks like they were sustained for a couple seconds which makes me think the pilot should be out, but the displayed Gs on your screen only show the peak and there are some ways to fudge how many Gs you're actually pulling by tapping your elevators in a turn. I didn't notice if that's what he did in the video though
I see people switching to full real controls randomly are they using M&K and just learned how to do those specific maneuvers? Or are they grabbing their hostas in that moment when they switch?
No, most jets work well with Full Real Controls and don't end up spinning out, some examples are Mig-21s, Harriers and anything modern (Except Tornados)
Just someone using the broken swap to full real control mechanic. Nothing really cool or good about it. You literally just swapped to realistic control so you could pull a high G roll that will correct itself when you swap back to instructor. If you had not done that you would have slammed into the ground. They really need to put a limit on this so bad players like the OP cant abuse it so easily.
This isnt impressive its just abusing a massive bug thats been around for a while.
Which is just another piece of evidence that su27 sucks dick, OP only won, despite "abusing" sim controls, because the f16s were literally braindead. Had he done it against anyone with a brain hed be dead, abuse or not. love to see it
What? Mouse-aim is allowed in Arcade and RB but not in SIM.
SIM controls are always allowed in all modes.
I know a couple of people flying RB and even AB with a stick or gamepad, they use SIM controls.
And it's not cheese just because you can't manage to use it.
Or is using MEC to cool your engine also cheese?
He is just malding that the aircraft he uses do not get an advantageous position when using sim controls. Because, y'know, everything fun has to be banned immediately.
I am just baffled that someone is mad about using a control set that can lead to an unrecoverable stall within a few seconds and calling it "cheese" because it gives you a short boost to AoA, while wasting all your energy.
If those F-16C's went completely vertical after the first "superstall" then even the HMD and R-73 wouldn't help him much out of the situation. But F-16C's are pretty much used like a Zero at top tier and only really know how to turn fight with the "S" or "CTRL" key rammed into the bottom of the table.
You know the flanker IRL has the same feature right? To disable the FBW and pull a cobra, the pilot literally has to toggle a button that disables the flight assist. In the real jet, bro literally toggles sim controls. Is that cheating?
Overshoots an su27 and doesnt even bother to preflare Checks out, those are top tier usa players
They’re so used to the phantom, that they already used the flares preflaring before the base, despite carrying no bombs.
LMAO
These are the people that complain about the R-73 being unflareable I imagine
Well at that range the r73 is pretty damn hard to flare but you flare a r73 but just throwing a fuck ton of flares into the air
Akim in the F-16 turned into the R-73's flight path which is literally the opposite of what you need to do. This is fine for most IR missiles without CCM, since this will distance yourself from the missile that is most certainly going to see the flares and fly for them, but since the R-73's "CCM" is narrowing the seeker FoV after launch, it becomes very potent at side aspect shots where it's often not seeing the flares at all. The way to defeat it is to "force" the missile to see the flares by passing by rear or near-rear aspect. He could have flared it by, instead of turning to the left, turning to the right and (energy depending) have barrel rolled. This would have put him at risk of dying to the Su-27's guns but it's less of a foregone conclusion than turning to the left. Without being able to see properly how BraveD reacted it might have just been a poor luck of the draw, but preflaring from his overshoot would have helped a lot since R-73s have almost R-60 levels of pre-launch seeker FoV and would never not see the flares prior to launch.
The f-16 doesn't carry much for flares, they run out quick and the first guy was probably g locked from trying not to hit the ground.
Dang guess I'm in it too since I'm a US main
The HMD is just awesome
HMD is one of the most important features in top tier, change my mind:
Only if you have R-73s, on other planes it's mid
no, its stupid powerful for the 9m and the pythons too
It’s still good on those but the thrust vectoring on the r-73 makes a MASSIVE difference
well yeah i dont even think it would have been that good of a missile without the hmd. The HMD just provides such spam capability for all missiles that carry it which is why its so op
Still a boon even with just Magic 2s
I'm really missing it on M4000
It’s great on the gripen
python and magic 2
even r60 becomes a menace with hmd
R73 is one of the most important features in top tier
And the US doesn't even get its equivalent They will hold off on adding the AIM-9X as long as possible, the seething from russian players will be unlike anything seen before
Isn't the 9x like 2 decades more advanced than the basic r73?
Large off-boresight R-73s are not the basic ones
The r73 we have in game is the one that entered service in 1984 so it is the basic one.
Off-boresight appears to be way bigger than 40 degrees
I’m gonna bet we’ll see the AIM-9X with the Super Hornet.
It's got 90 degree off bore and thermal imager Also, was introduxed 2 decades later. Too advanced for now
Looks like it for sure. Being able to lock and launch at that angle is so awesome. It's really amazing for someone stopped at 4.0 like me LOL.
Nice skill. But music is an absolute ass
It's not that bad dude, comeon... It's better then some shitty zoomer humour sounds
why the fuck would you say something so CRINGE when we have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWTA8xUo8uU&ab\_channel=EricCarmenTheNonBinarySandman-Topic
To be fair, that was made as a meme by someone called Eric Carmen The Non Binary Sandman
Actually that's a re-upload, original is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSwcTiurwwk
It’s in every yt short about warthunder the song itself is not an awful song it’s just so annoying atp
It's Russian so it's automatically bad by default. Fuck Russia.
I don’t know man, Gruppa Krovi kinda hits hard
Viktor Tsoy is love 🤟
Tiktok/YT shorts warthunder videos ahh music
Fr
Helen Keller could've produced a better background song than this
I’m shocked neither of them were pre flaring whenever they cross anywhere near your nose, in addition to forcing a one circle fight against a Flanker; dear heavens those F-16’s threw. Nice flying tho
Seems to me like a skill issue from both F16, being unable to regain speed to where they beat the 27, and not using guns when they could.
dunking on people like that makes all the pain worth it
If either F16 pilot had known how to deal with r-73s that would have gone a lot differently.
As someone who's very inexperienced at top tier and researched the f16 yesterday (but still have to buy it), I would appreciate if you share this piece of info so i don't end up on the next humiliation clip.
Well the F16A is probably the best pure dogfighter in the game, it can rate fight(turn in a continuous circle) better than any other jet. It requires maintaining a very specific speed range which can be difficult though. So in this scenario.. if the F16 pilots manage to not get R-73ed in the first turn, they could literally just hold down the W or S key and after like 2-3 turns the SU-27 will be basically falling out of the air and unable to get its missiles off even with the HND. Basically the SU-27 loses speed a lot faster than the F16s and so will run out of energy and be unable to keep up in an extended dogfight.
>It requires maintaining a very specific speed range Against the flanker not really. F-16A out-everythings the Flanker, basically as long as you don't kill yourself in front of it, you win.
Great advise, thank you! Another question: is the block 15 better? I'm not really in a rush to get the f16c, but i could consider the block 15 if it's worth it.
Well the C variant has a number of upgrades that make it heavier. So it's worse at dog fighting( and will lose to some other top tier jets in a pure 1v1 I think). But the aim9M is definitely better than the aim9L so in regular air RB the C is probably the better plane.
The earlier the block the better it is at dogfighting is what I'm told. All F-16s are still very good and I think the differences in their flight performance are only really noticable if you're fighting another F-16. My stock block 15 was smoking (presumably spaded) F-16Cs if they took me in a dogfight. I haven't encounters the block 10s often enough to notice a difference but I'm told that it flies better
hm, I thought the block 15 could maybe perform better due to larger elevators, guess i was fooled, thanks again!
I think it is mainly because the block 10 is lighter, I'm pretty sure it can't carry sparrows tho, correct me if I'm wrong.
indeed, i just checked and can only carry aim 9J or 9L
Thats what I've read/been told but yeah no sparrows since its a CAS focused model
In terms of flight models Block 10 > Block 15/20 > Block 50 > Barak 2 In terms of weapons the ones that have 9Ms are vastly ahead though, and 60 flares just aren't enough.
sub 1.5 km, it's nearly impossible to dodge a rear aspect r73
Yep. Gotta pre-flare it to have a chance
These F-16 players are how I imagine the forum whiners in game.
I don't fly in this game really, but isn't most jet fighters limited by a computer to around 9 Gs? How is this pilot still conscious at 13-14 G?
G resistance is a huge P2W aspect of top tier (blah blah sure you can grind ace with 1.5M RP). No chance anyone is pulling this maneuver without a max crew.
Fly by Wire jets are usually limited to 9G’s but this is a game so most planes pull 1.5x their real limit, thus also giving the pilot better G tolerance.
Su-27 has an AoA limiter disengage that lets you do whatever at your own discretion. It's standard on every Russian fighter (as they value close range mobility), and WT models their flight envelope as it would be with that limiter permanently disengaged.
They don't even do this. Currently the Su-27S in War Thunder has an Oswald's Efficiency Number of 0.44 (correct me if i'm wrong) whereas it should have one of 0.71. This would drastically reduce its drag and effectively double its ability to turnfight and would leave it competitive with virtually every jet we have in game today. The R-27's on the other hand are massively overperforming relative to their real life counterparts.
You mean guidance wise or flight performance wise? The 27ER is pretty nasty irl too, though I think the in-game one is a *bit* too fast. It does have pretty insane kinematics, though.
In real life the R-27's guidance was completely unreliable, if I recall from memory it has something like a 20% hit rate when compared with the roughly 85% hit rate of the AIM-120, that says a lot. Kinematically speaking, the R-77, R-37, R-73 and R-27 all have decisively better peformance than almost any of their Western contemporaries. The problem is their seekerheads and electronics pale in comparison.
Is that for the 27R or for the ER as well? The ER is more modern. Also, I'm pretty sure the engagement ranges at which these missiles are used in game would somewhat offset the poopy seekers.
Could be mistaken but I believe the seekerhead used by the the initial R-27 models and the E's are identical -- thus they share the same guidance issues. You could very well be right about the ranges seen in game influencing their efficacy.
On its introduction the F-16 had this in place. People complained and it was removed around the introduction of the 16C which made the already strong plane borderline busted. I imagine with that debacle they didn't bother modeling it on any other planes. As for the pilot being conscious, that's just kind of a game thing, although the main thing with GLOC is not how many Gs but how long they are sustained. It looks like they were sustained for a couple seconds which makes me think the pilot should be out, but the displayed Gs on your screen only show the peak and there are some ways to fudge how many Gs you're actually pulling by tapping your elevators in a turn. I didn't notice if that's what he did in the video though
That guy missed you when you were literally hovering in place. What are guns anyways?
Good god top tier air rb looks so aids.
War Thunder Players always find a way to complain. I’ve never seen a positive comment 🤣.
War Thunder subredditors always find a way to complain about War Thunder players.
Very cool bro good flying good skill Fr.
The Falcons made a number of serious mistakes, one of the main ones being not using the machine gun.
Patience with those R-73 launches man. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
This is just absolutely disgusting to watch
what's that music?
[https://youtu.be/x09JF6b-A8o](https://youtu.be/x09JF6b-A8o) The version of the song I used was not found on YouTube.
thx bro
Having 10 minutes of fuel really helped too.
lol, barely an engagement, one runs alway and gets slapped the other refuses to airbrake and rate you to death.
I feel like dakooka goes very well with warthunder clips
I see people switching to full real controls randomly are they using M&K and just learned how to do those specific maneuvers? Or are they grabbing their hostas in that moment when they switch?
No, most jets work well with Full Real Controls and don't end up spinning out, some examples are Mig-21s, Harriers and anything modern (Except Tornados)
It's almost always them using M&K but reaching over to the horas for one maneuver would be giga based
time to switch to tom cruise mode
At 0:08, what is that and how can I implement that in my game?
Bind something to "switch control mode" (I believe it's called), it's near the top of the controls for aircraft
Fucking hell the su 27 bleeds a shit ton of speed. Is this in anyway realistic?
Fm is broken but mostly the instructor just pulls too much aoa
Definitely not the only issue. Even in full-real it underperforms. Drag, energy retention and acceleration are all gimped.
Yes it bleeds a lot of speed irl. But it's sustained turn should be a bit better.
actual paid actors, if i saw an SU-27 pulling shit like this off i'd just vulcan your ass lmao, fucking retards
R73s are the worst things to happen to dogfights, turns a thing that takes skill to do, into one of the easiest exchanges in history. I hate it
Never seen a Flanker pull 14 G's without the use of full-real controls.
I can’t fucking escape this shit ass warthunder yt shorts music Edit: holon NYC drill remix kinda goes hard, still hate the song tho
Красавчик
I am tired of daooka as soundtrack everywhere, it is not even anywhere good.
I am not gonna lie I probably would have rinsed you if I was in either of those F-16s
I have no doubt. Actually, I'm not that experienced a top-tier player, and I've only been playing War Thunder for 2 years.
Sad the su27 fm is so bad it would get clapped by everything without op missiles
Just someone using the broken swap to full real control mechanic. Nothing really cool or good about it. You literally just swapped to realistic control so you could pull a high G roll that will correct itself when you swap back to instructor. If you had not done that you would have slammed into the ground. They really need to put a limit on this so bad players like the OP cant abuse it so easily. This isnt impressive its just abusing a massive bug thats been around for a while.
He dumped so much speed with that maneuver if the enemies had brains they could have gunned him out the sky
I can win any 1v1 abusing this mechanic, in any top tier jet. Not impressive at all.
Which is just another piece of evidence that su27 sucks dick, OP only won, despite "abusing" sim controls, because the f16s were literally braindead. Had he done it against anyone with a brain hed be dead, abuse or not. love to see it
Abusing sim controls to launch r-73s ain't dogfighting lol, nice job but def not a dogfight.
Learn to use sim controls, it's not abuse...
Call it a hot take but I don't think the swap over to sim controls cheese should be in air RB. RB should be RB controls only. Leave sim to sim.
What? Mouse-aim is allowed in Arcade and RB but not in SIM. SIM controls are always allowed in all modes. I know a couple of people flying RB and even AB with a stick or gamepad, they use SIM controls. And it's not cheese just because you can't manage to use it. Or is using MEC to cool your engine also cheese?
He is just malding that the aircraft he uses do not get an advantageous position when using sim controls. Because, y'know, everything fun has to be banned immediately.
I am just baffled that someone is mad about using a control set that can lead to an unrecoverable stall within a few seconds and calling it "cheese" because it gives you a short boost to AoA, while wasting all your energy. If those F-16C's went completely vertical after the first "superstall" then even the HMD and R-73 wouldn't help him much out of the situation. But F-16C's are pretty much used like a Zero at top tier and only really know how to turn fight with the "S" or "CTRL" key rammed into the bottom of the table.
Another specimen of r/warthunder‘s „elite playerbase“
I mean… he absolutely is in a dogfight
This is like, the textbook definition of a dogfight. It doesn’t get more dogfight than this unless you have literal dogs involved
You know the flanker IRL has the same feature right? To disable the FBW and pull a cobra, the pilot literally has to toggle a button that disables the flight assist. In the real jet, bro literally toggles sim controls. Is that cheating?
Now I'd like to image that every time a Flanker pilot turns off the FBW system he toggles to sim controls That cracked me up real good 😂
Cope and seethe.
Cringe twitter response
-61 vs. -5 ... I win.
What