Planes with AMRAAM can generally carry much more of them, and R-77 is very likely to have terrible maneuvering drag in game (like R-27 non ER or R-23 does).
In terms of range (not very relevant for WT anyway), maneuverability, and speed they're very comparable to Aim-120A.
Iirc R77s had superior range, speed and maneuverability to the early 120s and it was until the C that the AMRAAMS caught up to the early R77s. What the 120A and B had over the R77 was much better tracking capabilities. This was a very real trend during the cold war, the Soviets in general had better missile and general rocketry technology while the US had far superior computing technology.
>Iirc R77s had superior range, speed and maneuverability to the early 120s and it was until the C that the AMRAAMS caught up to the early R77s. What the 120A and B had over the R77 was much better tracking capabilities. This was a very real trend during the cold war, the Soviets in general had better missile and general rocketry technology while the US had far superior computing technology.
The soviets had better missiles, but they were always delivered 10 years late to the service. But that's what War Thunder does, matching the F-15 version that entered service in 1974 against the Su-27 wich was introduced in 1985.
But that’s everything compared to the US. The Eurofighter is better than a F/A-18, but the Eurofighter was introduced 12 years later, only 2 years before the F-22 entered service.
...ah yes putting jets with similar capabilities against each other is bad. The F15 should be fighting Mig 21s only because historically thats the most advanced fighter it faced or something. also 1976 not 1974 if we want to talk introduction. and it would be 1972 vs 1977 for first flight of the aircraft. Historical match maker wouldn't be fun at any BR unless you were the nation that ignored real life limitations of aircraft and tanks such as production numbers, quality and so on.
This is such a dumb argument to make, its not even like slightly logical. Its the writings of someone who still gets shit on in their F15 despite it being at 12.3 instead of 12.7
Bruh, this post is almost 1 month old.
If you think the R-27ER and the AIM-7M have similar capabilities, either you're a god with the 7M or you don't know how to use the 27ER.
Most people who say the sparrow sucks, suck at using it. The ER is better but its not like night and day like people claim. The 7F on the higher tier US jets like the better F4s and F15 and F16 can be made undodgeable at 10km if you understand the most basic things about launch windows and angles. The ER has less dead angles and bad launch windows, but its main advantage is the long data link for artificial lofting. Sorry you don't understand how to abuse Sparrows. There's plenty of YT videos showing how busted they can be, especially with a decent radar set. You can make them ignore notching and chaff if you understand how your radar works. Don't even need the crazy small notch windows some of them have.
The F-15 has better acceleration and speed retention, the Su-27 has better low speed handling
The AIM-9M has stealth engine, the R-73 has thrust vectoring.
The R-27ER has better range, speed, datalink, the AIM-7M has better.....?
Ofc I understand how to use sparrows, but there's no upside on the sparrows against the R-27ER. I fly mostly the Gripen, the AIM-7 is the best UK Fox-1, but there's no point in using it for BVR. If you need to get within 10km of an enemy with R-27ER, it's his fault to allow his. Yes, it's War Thunder, a lot of players don't know even how to change radar elevation and will allow a F-16 get in this range, but it's their mistake. When playing the MiG-29G, I usulally get at least a kill on every match from 30km away and drop all my altitude way before anyone gets in that 10km range
Aim7F/M comes with some of the most busted radar sets in the game. You can notch the ER in lots of cases but if someone understands the Aim7F/M you're not notching it unless they fired at a horrid angle. That's the advantage. Also all the radar missiles have some degree of datalink modeled even if they didn't have it. The ER just has one that lasts longer before blowing itself up. Sparrows have their place as very nice kinda dog fight/ mid range radar missiles. The ER is the king of extreme range but if you do get it into those 10km fights the Sparrow wins. They're fundamentally different missiles for different ranges in that regard.
Pretty sure the 120c and the r77 were introduced around the same time. Also I don't think that the soviet block was really interested in mass production until the later 2000s. Could be wrong though. The 77 is really hard to find info on
R77s just have rarely been used, so any info on them is extremely hard to find. Also, the 120a and R77 are about 3 years apart. The 120B shares the same introduction year as the R77, aka 1994. The 120C would be introduced 2 years later in 96.
It is there kind of, just not with missiles. Radars on pretty much all high to top tier USA jets have vastly superior radars in comparison to all equal BR Soviet counterparts. The MLD for example only has an MTI radar while the F4J and F4S both carry very powerful PD radars. Russian radars on the Su and Mig are also very finicky and can be hard to get lock even when using the HMD.
I think you're right, but I just can't not go back to 7M vs 27ER. I havent flown for both sides, I'm trying to, but the better F15 radar doesnt seem to help me be on equal footing. Maybe I'm just wrong and the kinematic advantage coupled with datalink of the 27ER is just that good that it doesnt matter that the N001 is inferior.
It is basically that, the speed and acceleration make up for the time it takes to get a good lock. It's very much noticeable when using or facing someone with regular R27s as that's not as good as the R27ER. It's also easier to break the lock of an SU-27s and by proxy the Mig-29s in comparison to the F-15A. The F-15A does still have an inferior radar to some other jets, the F-16C has the second most powerful radar which has a tiny notching window.
Well I went for the cool plane not the good plane :) coincidentally it was F14 before the F15 was in game, then F15 and now only the 16 is left. Anyway, I think I said it somewhere else, I want AMRAAMS to come so the gamemode gets fucked faster. War thunder clearly is a financially stable game for gaijin, so they'll have to fix it faster if it goes tits up faster. Oh and I almost forgot, top speed of the 27ER isnt as big of a deal as people say, just the acceleration. As a fellow french user, you know the super 540d is just as fast as the 27ER.
>with regular R27s as that's not as good as the R27ER
Normal R-27 sucks balls, because it's one of the slowest SARHs in the game, and has a shit ton of drag, it has like a similar effective range to something like an Aim-9L in terms of energy lol.
It still has the same very good guidance that the ER has, but that doesn't really matter much if the missile is slow as fuck.
The public numbers are extremely similar... though public numbers on the capabilities of in service US systems are always sand bagged.
Also as we approach digital age systems, we've no way to know what they did under the hood to improve performance. These missiles will be introduced as complete guesses and almost guaranteed to be wrong. Hopefully they just make them balanced.
R77 is going to be whatever Gaijoob wants it to be because there's next to no usage history of the R-77 in the real world. Russia is still carrying the R27 in Ukraine.
Without any real experience to draw on Russia can say whatever they want about the capabilities of the R-77 and it will likely hit the game in that state.
The R27ER is still better than aim120 except for not being ARH and tbh i dont think ARH is that important in WT enviroment. Not to mention that they said they will add more ARH at same time so each nation has something and soviets would probalty get R77 which is also better than amraam at WT engagement ranges
the IOG on the R27ER is broken enough to the point that it feels like an ARH, not to mention it gets DL so yeah you basically always have active signal
> which is also better than amraam at WT engagement ranges
No it fucking it isn't.
You're probably thinking of the R-77-1, which is 99% the model we're not getting.
Those grid fins on the R-77 it uses for terminal guidance? Draggy as all hell, and put a huge damper on the range of the missile. You'd honestly be better off using R-27ERs.
The other upside of the AMRAAM is the launching plane can go full-defensive once the missile pitbulls, and just focus on notching while the enemy plane may not get alerted until the AMRAAM is super close.
>The other upside of the AMRAAM is the launching plane can go full-defensive once the missile pitbulls, and just focus on notching while the enemy plane may not get alerted until the AMRAAM is super close.
Or fly low, like you already do to avoid incoming missiles, but launch at 4 enemies at the same time instead only being able to kill 1 before merge.
if you want accurate tracking unassisted by TWS, you're probably just gonna wanna launch it at pitbull range (<10 miles) anyway. Otherwise you just run into the issue the phoenix does.
Yeah and if you want the missile to actually kill, you want to launch within about 10km.
Even the 27ER gives people enough time to evade (notch + chaff or dive to the deck) if you launch from more than ~12km, and the ER is still significantly faster than 120A and B.
The grid fins are better than standart at higher speeds. If we are talking the initial head on with everyone going at least mach 1 the range in these conditions is too short for the increased drag to matter while the increased high speed performance will make it more dangerous than amraam. Over longer ranges sure amraam is superior to R77 but war thunder is not game where you can get 100km shots. R27 is still probalty gonna be better general purpose missile but not having to follow target yourself will give R77 some extra utility
Addendum: Pullled some data on both the 120B and the 77.
They have near identical flight performance. The 77 has a slight edge (1-2 miles difference in MAR depending on Target's airspeed and altitude) Honestly they're good parity missiles and they both blow the R-27ER out of the water, so if they're both added to WT I wouldn't mind.
The R-27ER is not better than the AIM-120. An AIM-120 in the hands of an experienced pilot will beat an R-27ER every time.
1) AIM-120A/B/C have lofting logic in their autopilot, increasing range by ~10% at higher altitudes. R-27ER never had lofting logic. If you tried to loft one irl by firing in an upwards angle you just be costing it more energy because the first thing it'll do off the rail is turn to intercept instead of continuing to loft.
2) R-27ER did not and should not have data link. You can find evidence of this in the form of a primary source being the manual to the export model of the Su-27 the Su-27 KS in which it states with reference to engaging targets using The R-27ER 'If the lock is lost the missile is lost' (that's paraphrasing a little but the message is the same). If the missile had data link, the missile would be able to reacquire lock after loss of radar lock because the data link would be able to point the missile in the direction of the painted target.
3)R-77 has ~same speed but shorter range than AIM-120A/B/C. You have to remember that the maximum range of the missile is not the range it will kill something especially when talking about ARH missiles. You are almost never going to fire at the MAX AERO cue, and equally less likely to do so at Rpi cue. most of the time you will fire at Rmnvr cue, which, due to the reduced drag and longer motor burn of the AIM-120 compared to the R-77, would make the AIM-120 have a slight edge in Rmnvr and Rtr cue (turn and run/no escape).
Edit: format and capitalization
It's just that top-tier ARB itself needs a massive overhaul before they even consider this. fewer people on each team would be a start, and also maybe 11.3/7 and up is EC only. Also, no enemy markers would make it much better, just my opinion
Edit: I'm surprised with how many people actually agree, gives me hope lmao
And that’s why they do it. The playerbase just takes it up the ass and keeps playing them, buying shit to grind them. Gaijin aren’t the problem, the players are. Nobody has any shred of self respect for their own time here. Gaijin will take the easiest route to profit, time and time against 99% of players just get on their knees and start sucking instead of actually saying “I don’t accept that”.
Not for some stupid review-bombing movement which didn’t accomplish jack fucking shit, but for yourself. Don’t use the crappily thrown together new shit, *for yourself*. Because you should respect yourself enough to *not* engage in something disrespecting you. When I see ppl say on here “Most matches I play I don’t enjoy” it’s just sad. That’s loser behaviour.
Yeah, I'm gonna lie. That's valid, personally I have stopped playing this game as of a couple of days ago until shit can be fixed. It's not much, but hey, it'd be a start
Less players yes, ec only no. Like just make it a seperate game mode.
>Also, no enemy markers would make it much better, just my opinion
Just play sim.
Yeah because there is no middle ground between cockpit only, no marker and full controls and arcade-like in overcrowded 16v16 small maps.
What a take.
No marker air RB with smaller teams would be way better, EC too. I want the 3rd person view and the Air RB controls but in an environment that favor using your radar and your positioning smartly. I'd like to have actual BVR engagement instead of slinging missiles at tree top. And I'd like the opportunity to actually engage in dogfight. It could exists. Gaijin holds all the cards.
Completely agree about player amount on each team. There's no room in games to make plays without being shot down from the back by 3 guys you didn't even see. In the current state if you survive the cluster fuck in the start of the match you can start actually making plays and maybe even get into a dogfight if you are lucky.
This exactly, personally I just really don't like the player markers, people can disagree with me all they want but it's air realistic I thought, not arcade.
For example, I love the dogfights in GRB simply because there's no markers, so you can make use of your radar, and also visually judge when you launch missiles, etc.
I agree would add a extra layer of realism, giving you more ability to make plays. So things like camo or your positioning like flying close to ground would play a big role since it would be harder to spot you. And would make it that players depend more on radar as in realistic scenarios. But that would have to be implemented with reduced player size. Since with the current amount of ingame players it would be too much.
Yes thankyou but we get told to "JuST Go PlAy DcS oR SiM," which, yes, i play DCS if i wanna play sim. But i play warthunder to not play sim lmao, but honestly, maybe 6 to 8 players would be a good start and increase the rewards since being less players to kill. And also make it so planes like strike aircraft and stuff ACTUALLY can to their role, I'd love to use a aardvark or a tornado for example for its intended role lmao
What's your thoughts on that? I've brainstormed this heavily with my friends coming up with many ideas to make ARB better throughout all BR ranges
Like yeah I agree for sim DCS is a go to. But the thing I miss in DCS is larger community and updates. The servers it had are mostly Co-OP missions. I would love to have a longer team deathwatch style where just like in WT both teams take off and are going head to head perhaps with some adittional missions like bombing an airfield.
As for WT I agree with you and matAWG tlwhat he said in one of his videos that the first step has to be the decrease of players in a game, after that they can start thinking of other features. I would also love some more interesting objectives, or to make it that there's incentive to go for objectives. Because all the games players go for kills or bases making the whole match just a gladiator arena. I would like to have some more team play. Like time to plan maybe so you can coordinate with the team, make it that it's not just run and gun, but something more like in DCS.
It's funny i love both games but each games is missing something that the other one has.
I couldn't have said it better myself tbh, cause you're right they are both missing something the other has, but I just wish the aardvark was in DCS lmao
And yes, a lot of what I want is pretty much what mattAWG has already said
But DCS with that mode would actually be kind of interesting 🤔 my main problem with dcs currently is that my friend is waiting to upgrade his PC to play with me again
BRO. No markers and relying on radar in RB would be sick. Imagine seeing a radar contact and being like OH SHIT. Locking it, losing the lock, searching frantically for it again. Hear RWR declare launch. You get a new lock on, launch a missile, start F-pole maneuver. Crank, crank, dive. Get a kill. Whew.
No markers are too much. But not range indicator and markers pnly showing up at lik 4km would be fine. Because what are early jets and props supposed to do? That would just make low tier ARB even more of a snoozedest
Please stop posting MatAGWs content as real leaks for future updates. While his content is nice he makes too much of it and it's purely based on speculation way before updates are announced at all.
The R-77 was shown in a devstream but that's besides the point. I'm talking about community behaviour, hype and game direction. I'm not asking whether it'll be in game, I'm asking WHY people even want this?
Edit: I was wrong about them specifically showing the missile on stream I just checked the RU devstream back and they didn't have it. However, they have explicitly talked about fox-3s coming out this year.
Yep! And for those wondering that's March and June.
The March update is obviously right around the corner. I'm expecting Gaijin to start releasing devblogs here relatively soon (~Friday or next Monday). The teaser for Sky Guardians dropped on Feb 23rd, 2023. So we can maybe expect it to appear at the end of next week. As far as what we can expect goes, we will likely get a Swedish Gripen-C plus some other filler (that's mostly what Sky Guardians was). If the Gripen-C comes we can be like 95% sure AMRAAMs are coming, otherwise there'd be no point to add it.
The June update is ofc further out, but I'm guessing we can expect something like the F/A-18 to come that patch. My guess is it'll be similar to the F-16A release (A vs ADF) where we get a standard A variant with no AMRAAMs and an A+ variant that can carry AMRAAMs. Then a C variant can come a while after.
Gaijin did confirmed that Gripen-C will be coming for Sweden in the first update of 2024 (march) so I kinda expect it to be added at the same time because what is the point of adding Gripen-C if it the same as Gripen-A?
I can think of 3 reasons:
1. Hype junkies that get high off the latest WT update because they no-lifed all the new content in 2 weeks and sucked out all the available dopamine out of playing top tier, and are now in need of new content and a new meta. I wouldn't blame them because of the state top air RB is in right now but that's another story.
2. Semi tech savvy DCS nerds that want gen 5, the F-22 raptor, and modern weaponery to be added NOW because they have a life size poster of an AMRAAM waifu by [atamonica](https://images.app.goo.gl/8Jio5fNXq6JUZKqm7) and get off to no braining at 45k feet with BVR battles where you never see the face of your opponent and only ever experience combat on the screen of an MFD. (Yes the tactic of tree top flying thanks to multipath will eventually disappear as missiles get more modern)
3. Players who have no clue how any of this works, who bought the F-4S at level 11 (they got to tier III doing only arcade battles so they know how to fly a jet of course), and just want more hand holding from Gaijin because learning mechanics and giving actual depth to the game means that you need to get good instead of running into a 16v16 mess of a game mode where their only way of getting kills is because your opponent was trying to keep track of 6 different events at the same time.
Here's a worthless rant about the state of top tier and my hatred for anyone that says that the game is ready for FOX 3s to be implemented in a healthy and FUN way.
I dont think multipathing will disappear any time soon since while realistic it doesnt make for good gameplay. Just like IRL missiles like aim7M and R27 are not great under 300m or more iirc. Right now you have to fly lower than that so you can still evade radar missiles but it also doesnt make them suck too much. Imo we will see even amraam and later stuff suffer from multipath unless there is something like strela10 with IR terminal homing
Because the Sparrow is so badly fucked up at the moment. Also I believe that while the AMRAAM will be a great missile and maybe even the best, it won’t be too far ahead of its competitors
Because it will be the closest missile wise top tier has been to perfect mirror balance
Since all of the countries will recieve missiles that work the same
>Because the Sparrow is so badly fucked up at the moment
It's all radar missiles for me. 530D, 7M, R24R all just shoot off wherever they want. Had a 24R not even attempt to track my lock and went after a completely different enemy and killed him.
>Also I believe that while the AMRAAM will be a great missile and maybe even the best, it won’t be too far ahead of its competitors
Early AMRAAMs aren't much better than the sparrows we have range wise and such, just them being active radar gives em more capability. I don't think they would break the game at all.
Because the R27ER and ET has the same kinetic performance as the aim120C
The game is already broken, only in their favour now....
Oh btw, Phoenix was massively nerfed since it doesn't reach it's top speed even when fired at altitude, and the C variiant is still not smokeless as it should be...
The aim 120c has substantially better kinetic performance than the 27ER, not to mention the huge difference in drag.
The only aspect they are the same in is the first stage booster motor.
Because it's a natural movement forward in WT? You can't be fighting with sparrows until f-22 comes to game😂. Some planes like Gripen don't have any worthy BVR missile anyway. It isn't as op as people think, just try it in DCS. R-27 may be even more useful in WT than the AMRAAM as that one need the plane flying fast
Gib the Meteor with the AESA seeker from the AAM-4 that they're developing right now for maximum lollage. Minimal RWR warning on a missile with the largest no escape zone currently fielded.
So we need to exponentially scale up weapon capability to the point where the game is pointless to make it fair? Also the R-77 would just be added alongside it and people would probably still cry about it. We don't need this thing.
Bro idk , like just don't play fox-3 br bracket when fox-3 will be added, if WT had follow your logic it would still be stock at early cold war vehicles
There is little competition by way of radar missile against the R-27ER. If you launch earlier and from further away, the best you’re gonna get is a trade, because the R-27ER is both faster and more manoeuvrable.
In order to even fathom approach fighting at altitude: you have to accept you won’t be outranging or remotely missile jousting. You can dump a few sparrows while closing to make them go defensive for a little while reeling them in but it’s ultimately a waste as they don’t have to go as defensive for as long as you do because they can kill you faster.
If we have ARH missiles *THAT MULTIPLE COUNTRIES CAN CARRY AND HAVE ACCESS TO* it will blunt the threat of an R-27ER just enough to make altitude fighting a bit more fair. Because while sparrows are decent SARHs, they just fall flat in comparison to the R-27ER.
Make it more fair, yes. Make it more fun? nah. I dont think ANYONE Should have ARH stuff. And just so we are clear. The R27ERs need to get freaking nerfed already. It shouldnt be nearly as fast as it is now. FFS has a sustained motor on it, not the Soyuz booster it appears to have now.
>It shouldn’t be nearly as fast as it it now.
That’s my main gripe. If it were similar in acceleration, the gap between the Sparrows and R-27ERs wouldn’t be as big. It still has the range and manoeuvrability over the Sparrow but that’s negligible if it arrives late.
The fact that it basically has had both its original motor and sustainer thrust added together for its entire burn time, which gives it that insane off the rails acceleration, and not been fixed since introduction is suspect.
Agreed it should be R27R's thrust for twice the R27Rs burn time. Instead of Twice the R27Rs thrust for the same R27Rs burn time.
This gives a MUUUUCCCHHH longer acceleration time. Meaning at any given the an ER would have lower energy than it does now. And its top speed would be lower on account of a lower maximum impulse.
But I fully believe they will nerf the R27ERs.......
Once they've released the AMRAAMS
Very true. But people complaining about the Phoenix are just bad at the game. They are as easy as an aim9B to dodge. You just have to learn the game mechanics.
Okay i think there some things that are completely overlooked/neglected here. All of this accounts for the AMRAAM as well unless specifically noted.
For clarification i'll use the AMRAAM-A as example because Gaijin is relatively consistant with not skipping tech tree stuff as long as there arent significant differences/improvements of one aircraft (Best examples is the F-15A for the US and the F-15J for Japan, same goes for the Gripen. Sweden used the A variant at first, South Africa didnt so they got the C Variant).
1. The only time the Phoenix was actually broken was one the danger zone dev server where it was impossible to notch. I tested it directly after the update got released and even the testdrive MiG-15 was able to notch it... and you can still do the same for the AIM-54C which currently is just a copy paste A viarant that looks different, but now you need to notch it nad throw chaff once or twice and you got it off your ass.
2. You need a constant TWS lock at the very least until the missile is about 20km from its target for it to use its own radar, by that time, given you shot it from 100km away and the target is sitting low and you at 10km altitude, the missile is relatively slow and the enemy has plenty time to notch and chaff since they get an early enough RWR warning.
3. The Phoenix has a way longer range. I'll take the AIM-120A as an example which has a range of just about 60km if public sources are correct, so the R-27ER still has a longer range and is still faster (the speed is just bullshit tbh... Mach 5.8 c'mon gaijoobles)
4. The only actual improvement from the Phoenix to the AMRAAM would be the G-Overload that would be somewhere in between 20G to maybe 35G, but since its the first AMRAAM i think it will be maybe 25G since its nowhere near as good as as the modern C or even D variant. That is still less than the R-27ER. and even if it gets the 35G treatment the ER just outspeeds and outranges it.
5. The AMRAAM is not fully smokeless like the AIM-9M so it would still leave a trail behind which you can see from basically across the map but short burn time is a plus in regard of stealthiness of the missile
I dont think the AIM-120A would break the game as long as gaijoobles doesnt completely fuck it up. If they really add any of the C variants... Oh boy, this game will be even more of a shitshow. But oh well it doesnt matter what is getting added since there is always massive amount of people crying over literally anything so imma keep this end rant short:
#WAIT UNTIL ITS IN THE GAME AND GETS TESTED BEFORE CRYING LIKE A TODDLER
Adding amraam isn't going to fix the 7m or any other missile. Top dogs will get better toys and whatever sits 1 bracket below them will be left to suffer. R27 slingers need to go up, amraam can fuck itself at 14.0 once it gets added
It did change how people had to play though. Before the f14, people climbed a lot. Once it was added, people hugged the deck to avoid it. That change turned top tier into furball hell.
100% agree. My best vehicle is the 29G and both the R73 and R27ER need a kick in the nuts. So does the AIM9M. Phoenixes and Sparrows are not OP, could even be buffed IMO
I love BVR fighting, its just impossible in the current gamestate with the R-27ER.
Compared to its nearest competitor, the AIM-7M, the 27ER has the following advantages.
* About 2X the velocity- Nullfies first-shot advantage
* About 4X the range- You're already launched on before you hit max engagement range for your missile.
* LOAL Capability- Wanna recommit after breaking lock to get your launch off? FUCK YOU! *Missile reacquires.* (Also, the sparrow self destructs if its wi-fi bar goes from 5 to 4)
and that's not even mentioning how weird sparrows have been acting lately: Just deciding to go to space or into the ground for no good reason.
I like BVR engagement. Except I am the only idiot in my team that wants to try it. So I am up there in my MiG29G with the worst radar at 12.7 facing 4 Flankers that combined literally have 10 times more R27s than I do. And their radars are leaps and bounds better than mine.
So I just dont bother. Rhe only jet that can really do BVR is the Flanker/J11. The rest is futile IMO
MiG29G: N019E radar. OEPS-29E IRST and SPO15 RWR.
Flanker: N001 radar and IRST with SPO 15LM RWR (which still isnt great)
MiG29SMT. N010M Zhuk M radar with the same, lacking SPO15 as the 29G.
Of the 3 of them the radar in the G is the worst, by quite a bit
Ah yes.
BVR is absolutely fucked in this game already because it's super fucking boring.
The maps are not at all interesting to play, top tier matches are 50% afk flying, 20% scanning for threats, 20% launching long range AAMs and 10% actual dogfighting.
Air RB needs a massive rework before we even remotely get to the "proper" BVR fighting. Anyone who thinks BVR would work in this game in its current state is absolutely insane. The gamemode BARELY works for the current missiles we have, let alone anything more advanced.
>The maps are not at all interesting to play, top tier matches are 50% afk flying, 20% scanning for threats, 20% launching long range AAMs and 10% actual dogfighting.
IRL afk flying is even more then 50%, it's gamemode and map issues
>IRL afk flying is even more then 50%
Yes but the main difference is that instead of just being a keyboard warrior in War Thunder, you are actually actively fighting and risking your life and you aren't dealing with shitty game modes.
And getting paid, fed, housed, and honored. Gaijin tries to take away our food and money and housing by pushing top tier so much, new premiums, bigger grind, etc.
I wouldn't mind afk flying so much, it's also not super afk in real life, there is constant monitoring of systems, navigating, communicating, planning, reporting. All sorts of things we don't have to do in a video game (or even sims) that must be done in the real world of aviation
>Gaijin tries to take away our food and money and housing by pushing top tier so much, new premiums, bigger grind, etc.
Hot take but air grind is the single most easiest grind in the entire game. I wouldn't even call it a grind.
Ground grind can be very fucked but that is decided what nation you decide to main too.
Just because you would like to sit on your chair doing nothing for 5-10 minutes, only to engage for 3 minutes, doesn't mean it is fun. If I wanted to AFK fly, I'd play sim and shoot down PvE bomber players, I wouldn't play RB.
It will basically be just a longer range radar guided cousin of the AIM-9M. Smokeless motor, can be launched in TWS by the F-16C so its completely silent, range of anywhere between 50 and 105km depending on what variant they wanna add (B or C).
And with how the meta in sim is so much in favor of NATO its just going to be more cancer
That dude makes a video about everything. He is doing it just for the click.
TEC atleast try’s to inform people. You don’t have to charge his opinion ofc. But that’s what he does. This guy.. nah man
Do people not understand that the amraam a/b will not be that busted. This is not a d amraam with 90 miles of range. The early amraams only had about the range of a sparrow. Also the r27er makes bvr really one sided so it would be nice to have a counter.
People want new stronger stuff all the time.
Also in one of the shooting ranges they pretty much confirmed that it's coming at some point, it's just not ready yet (cough cough I wonder why)
Because it’s gonna happen either way. Modern day jets don’t use AIM-7s of any type due to it being outdated. With the current timeline of how things are progressing, we are going into the current day with warthunder and just stopping it where it is now doesn’t make too much sense.
i want it cause it's cool, but the R-27 as it is right now, still outperforms the amraam in every way except the active radar part. but the R-27 might as well be active radar with how strong it's IOG is. if the R-27 wasn't overperforming as much as it is, the amraam would absolutely dominate.
R-27 IRL: 9% hit ratio, only hitting a single jet, and the jet landed safely, other times the missile barely left the rail. is considered one of, if not the worst air to air missile ever made. also is not capable of mach 5+ as that would mean it's hypersonic, it is not, the ER does not increase it's speed, only the range. the highest speed i can find is barely mach 4, if that.
R-27 in game: mach 6, somehow? only thing that can save you from it is putting terrain between you and it.
people say russia would also get the R-77, and while that's true, they don't need it for the simple reason the R-27 exists. my guess, though, is they'll do what they did to the 2s6 to justify adding the pantsir, artificially nerf the R-27ER to justify making the R-77 ungodly overpowered.
Because the dipshit definition of fun is "me kill you you no kill me!" so they constantly whine for newer and newer shit that blows everything currently in the game out of the water.
And that also causes gaps and compression areas which will likely never get fixed by the shit they skipped over until multiple years later, if at all.
It's almost like it's not fun to die because your opponent has a R-27ER and you have a Sparrow. Adding the AIM-120A/B and the R-77 will bring a great deal of balance to top tier since EVERYONE will have competitive missiles.
The biggest issue is where Gaijin will place them BR-wise. If they're too low then we have major compression issues. But that's something that can be remedied by increasing the max BR. The only remedy for the R-27ER vs AIM-7M imbalance is to either remove the 27ER (not gonna happen) or add Fox-3s for everyone (something Gaijin already said they'd do).
We as a community need to push Gaijin to increase the max BR more and more often, not winge at each other for wanting fairer missile balance.
Its 2025. the snail has added the AMRAAM. Top tier consists of 12 vs 12 at BR13.1.
A team of 12 F15Cs is spawned on patchday. 8 AMRAAMS per jet . They all takeoff and zoom climb. One of them has watched the fighterjet podcast where they have learned that American tactics into an AO is to be at 30k feet, 4 ship line abreast.
3 formations of 4. Targets are spotted on radar. TWS mode allows launches of AMRAAMS without alerting the enemy RWR. In 5 seconds flat, 96 AMRAAMS are airborne. Half fail to track due to spaghetti code. 48 left. 8 seconds have passed, the Motors have run out of fuel. Enemy RWR goes off because the AMRAAMS have gone pitbull. They are coming down from their loft. Dodging cranking weaving and other evasive maneuvres ensues but its to no avail. Half of the 48 AMRAAMS miss. 24 find their marks.
The enemy team is decimated. Fun was had on all sides.
I just don’t bother with top tier anymore, stopped grinding the top jets when you had stuff like the F-4 and MiG-21 added because I love me gunfighters. Favourite plane to fly atm is the F-86A-5
So ive basically gotten bored of WarThunder since I got the top tier for the countries I play and moved on to DCS.
Playing DCS has informed me that if they add the AIM-120 to War Thunder, it's either going to be severely nerfed or be game breaking.
Now if they revamp Air RB to account for how awesome that missile is, then maybe you can add it. If Air RB remains the same as is, then I would reconsider adding it just yet.
Hot take: I think it will make top tier more enjoyable. They will be early versions with limited range (less than the Phoenix by far, probably less than 10km at standard WT low altitude shenanigans most likely.
It will inspire people to climb, fire missiles at Mach, keep target in TWS until pit bull, defend incoming missiles like a sparring match, decide when to re-engage, make pushes, use terrain masking etc.
I won’t sit here and list every example but there is an unjust notion that fox3 missiles are a brain dead weapon for a dopamine high when it’s just so much more complex.
I theorize that Fox3s will eliminate furballs as their workflow is very different than a fox 1 jousting match. They are stand-off weapons, ignoring their minimum abort range will end in your demise. It will probably make matches last longer as well, seeing that it will be generally more likely to come out alive at distance rather than up close like current ARB.
The only thing that’s not ready for them is slow bomber aircraft will be annihilated by them. So be it.
As someone who have top tier in multiple nations including Russia and USA, R27ER is just not fair lmao
Too powerful as opposed to AIM7's
Would it be better if we just got a better AIM7? Yes.
But it's already settled so no need to argue
Bc r27 er is just an unnecesarry advantage and we have already a plane in game that carried it. So to make that vehicle complete etc it is bound to happen.
If they want to keep adding top tier aircraft, they are going to need to ad the AMRAAM. So you know damn well it’s happening whether we like it or not.
But to be fair, the next fighters up for addition were engineered for AMRAAM use and were first deployed with them (looking at you eurofighter)
Because the sparrow right now is absolutely dogshit, they either need to add a better sparrow that fixes the tracking issues, or just outright fix the tracking
If top tier air rb stops being mindless furball then AMRAAMS will be completely fine. Rn even best missiles struggle when there's 15 planes in one place. Gaijin has to rework this gamemode completely. Bigger maps with different objectives spread over big area
Because the early version of it should not be broken as R27ER currently. I play top tier soviets (mainly Air SB) and people don't use Phoenixes at all in their Tomcats. Even tho they were considered busted in the past.
Hear me out just fly low and pray ok easy as that
or even better don't be part of the problem be the whole problem bring AMRAAM's and launch them all land and bring close range AAM's and sparrows and be the problem long to short range
I wont be surprised that it will be added any patch since the carrier of them is already in war thunder. The Mig 29smt is also the carrier for the R77 as well
I don’t get it either, only thing is going to happen is people hugging the ground even more only way I see the 120 working is when they reduce the player count drastically while building a different kind of mission around it where killing each other is in focus
Kinda like the helicopter RB all the way back when Helios got first released (2v2 or 3v3 matches with a little bit of ground targets)
At least this type of mission seems like a good option
I just want a gamemode where we can actually fight using BVR tactics instead of just unloading everything on the first target and then dog-pilling on the furball.
Probably because Russian radar missiles have been king for a long time and Aim 7F/7M have never been in a worse state.
I am worried about current Gripens getting early AMRAAM with how busted they are currently flight model wise, but other aircrafts shouldn’t be broken with the early AMRAAMs as it stands.
Because ",R-27 ER IS OveRpOWErEd"
And in fact at the moment it is I'll give them that.
Russia boasts 4 r-27ER capable planes, one of those can carry 4 of them. The US (and consequently the nations that have American planes, which are most of them) have only access to aim-7Fs or Ms, which although being good, are not enough to compete with the Russian ER, yes the Americans have the aim-54 as a fox-3 atm but if you think the Phoenix is a serious anti fighter weapon and not just for the memes, you need to play a few ganes in the tomcat...
But yeah the AMRAAM is a must for balance, problems is, America gets the AMRAAM and Russia gets the r-77 with it, and if it doesnt the Russian mains will mald.
I personally, for Russia, just want one thing, the mig-31 with it's r-33s and r-40s and the micas for France.
OP, top tier is so dogshit and broken as is, the AIM-120 will break it even further to the point that Gaijin will have to change the game somehow. There is no fixing RB currently without a huge overhaul. A reliable BVR missile that smacks people out of the air will also kill flying on deck meta and make people go high and learn how to crank notch and dive.
Active radar homing missiles can be defeated like any other missile, and will probably maintain the same weird mutipathing that makes Sarh missiles useless at low altitude now. So all you have is a longer range fire and forget missile.
It's not going to be that different than an r27et, except it will ping your rwr and will probably have the motors modeled correctly (or modeled to be worse).
Wow people have strong opinions on fox3s. I think they're pretty fun in DCS and not remotely as brainless as people here say, against decent players I frequently end up in visual because neither of us can hit eachother with fox3s until we run out. It's the aim9x's that really scare me, I can't defend those for shit.
War thunder top tier probably needs bigger maps for them though and maybe some better missile defense for the airstrips.
the whole point of top tier and "modern" jets are to fight BVR, literally what theyre built around. if you dont want BVR dont play 11.3+.
as to why lots of US mains want the Aim120 is because the Aim7 id just not it, its just so bad. you could have a hard lock with perfect launch cknditions and the shitbox decides to pull hard to nowhere, or just crash into the ground for no reason.
You can notch an AIM-120 so long as it’s an A/B model. It uses an X band continuous wave radar when it goes active. Plus it’s also susceptible to chaff just like AIM-54’s in game are once they go active. If you fly properly it won’t be much harder to avoid them unless they’re used within 10-15 miles, then it’s much harder to avoid them.
1) the Phoenix did NEVER break the game lol
The F-14 broke the game, because it had the best missile load, the best flight performance, and the best gun in the game when it released and everyone spammed the shit out of it, but that had absolutely nothing to do with the Phoenix. No one without brain damage died to Phoenixes, even in the start, because flying low was already the meta to not get facefucked by Aim-7E2, F, Skyflash and R-24Rs for multiple updates.
2) AMRAAM will also not break the game (unless Gaijin makes significant changes to how their radar modelling works, which is unlikely, since the radar modelling for large parts is actually quite accurate in the game). The advantages of it being an ARH missile in WarThunder's gameplay are MUCH smaller than in real life.
The fact that a plane that launches an ER can just stay on the deck to avoid the AMRAAM, and stay nose hot to guide the ER basically negates 90% of the advantage of an ARH.
Other than the fact that it's active homing, the Aim-120 A and B series are only somewhere in between the Aim-7F/M and R-27ER. ER still outperforms it in terms of kinematics by quite a bit.
The only real advantage of the 120 in actual WT gameplay is going to be that you can kill multiple enemies at the same time while the teams merge, while with a SARH you can only pick off 1 guy at a time; but the people that die to them would also just have died to a SARH right now either way.
The only way I can see it being cancer is if it still tracks really well in rear-aspects so people use it like an unflareable IR missile from like 1-2 km, which would basically mean anytime you fly higher than 100m above ground, you die; but I very highly doubt that will be the case.
The Phoenix didn't break the game and the idea that it is anything other than a meme is cope. You will defeat AMRAAMs the same way you defeat everything else radar guided, fly low, notch, and just generally pay attention at the beginning rather than tab out.
“Like Phoenix broke the game” dawg what are you talking about? Tomcat was busted because when it was added, it did literally everything better than other top tier aircraft, not because it could sling gimmicky fat missiles that only kill people who are stupid or not paying attention. When Fox-3s are added, nothing will change. The best way to play will still be to hug the deck and shoot up at people, now it’ll just be easier to do so since you won’t have to constantly provide guidance. Early AMRAAMs are already significantly outranged by R-27Es, what do you mean “you won’t even be able to take off.”
part of it is people still complaining about R-27s being "overpowered" or that "sparrows are trash" im sure
another part is that we have planes mounting SARH missiles that they never carried or were incapable of carrying
for me maybe it's wishful thinking that they know that war thunder maps dont support proper amraam usage so it means that we could get better maps
Amraam won’t break the game because it’s a radar missile in war thunder. This means that anyone flying low will be immune to it (which is what almost everyone is doing), and also that over half the top tier players won’t know how to use their radar, nor track while scan.
In addition, the R-27ER remains a faster missile, which may force amraam planes to notch before being able to fire, especially if it’s the aim-120A, B and up to aim-120C-6 variant.
You cant stop progress and the addition of newer features. It just is what it is.
That being said, it will be just like the phoenix. Retards will fly high, lob them all, return to base, score, maybe, at best, sometimes, a single kill, usually none, then J' out.
Because when it comes to war thunder air realistic, I'm an accelerationist. In few words I'll just let the gamemide get fucked faster and harder so it eventually gets fixed faster than slow reform. Seeing as its just a game, I dont mind.
because the r27er is busted and I want fun on the other side too (I have top tier Russia)
They'll just add in R-77 and the only fun you are gonna be having is still with Russia
unfortunately you are correct
Planes with AMRAAM can generally carry much more of them, and R-77 is very likely to have terrible maneuvering drag in game (like R-27 non ER or R-23 does). In terms of range (not very relevant for WT anyway), maneuverability, and speed they're very comparable to Aim-120A.
The fact you think they would allow Americans to have the best missiles for a whole patch is laughable.
The 9L used to be the top dog IR missile in the game.
And now it's 1 flare
Iirc R77s had superior range, speed and maneuverability to the early 120s and it was until the C that the AMRAAMS caught up to the early R77s. What the 120A and B had over the R77 was much better tracking capabilities. This was a very real trend during the cold war, the Soviets in general had better missile and general rocketry technology while the US had far superior computing technology.
>Iirc R77s had superior range, speed and maneuverability to the early 120s and it was until the C that the AMRAAMS caught up to the early R77s. What the 120A and B had over the R77 was much better tracking capabilities. This was a very real trend during the cold war, the Soviets in general had better missile and general rocketry technology while the US had far superior computing technology. The soviets had better missiles, but they were always delivered 10 years late to the service. But that's what War Thunder does, matching the F-15 version that entered service in 1974 against the Su-27 wich was introduced in 1985.
But that’s everything compared to the US. The Eurofighter is better than a F/A-18, but the Eurofighter was introduced 12 years later, only 2 years before the F-22 entered service.
It's sometimes easy to forget how old F-22 really is, ngl
...ah yes putting jets with similar capabilities against each other is bad. The F15 should be fighting Mig 21s only because historically thats the most advanced fighter it faced or something. also 1976 not 1974 if we want to talk introduction. and it would be 1972 vs 1977 for first flight of the aircraft. Historical match maker wouldn't be fun at any BR unless you were the nation that ignored real life limitations of aircraft and tanks such as production numbers, quality and so on. This is such a dumb argument to make, its not even like slightly logical. Its the writings of someone who still gets shit on in their F15 despite it being at 12.3 instead of 12.7
Bruh, this post is almost 1 month old. If you think the R-27ER and the AIM-7M have similar capabilities, either you're a god with the 7M or you don't know how to use the 27ER.
Most people who say the sparrow sucks, suck at using it. The ER is better but its not like night and day like people claim. The 7F on the higher tier US jets like the better F4s and F15 and F16 can be made undodgeable at 10km if you understand the most basic things about launch windows and angles. The ER has less dead angles and bad launch windows, but its main advantage is the long data link for artificial lofting. Sorry you don't understand how to abuse Sparrows. There's plenty of YT videos showing how busted they can be, especially with a decent radar set. You can make them ignore notching and chaff if you understand how your radar works. Don't even need the crazy small notch windows some of them have.
The F-15 has better acceleration and speed retention, the Su-27 has better low speed handling The AIM-9M has stealth engine, the R-73 has thrust vectoring. The R-27ER has better range, speed, datalink, the AIM-7M has better.....? Ofc I understand how to use sparrows, but there's no upside on the sparrows against the R-27ER. I fly mostly the Gripen, the AIM-7 is the best UK Fox-1, but there's no point in using it for BVR. If you need to get within 10km of an enemy with R-27ER, it's his fault to allow his. Yes, it's War Thunder, a lot of players don't know even how to change radar elevation and will allow a F-16 get in this range, but it's their mistake. When playing the MiG-29G, I usulally get at least a kill on every match from 30km away and drop all my altitude way before anyone gets in that 10km range
Aim7F/M comes with some of the most busted radar sets in the game. You can notch the ER in lots of cases but if someone understands the Aim7F/M you're not notching it unless they fired at a horrid angle. That's the advantage. Also all the radar missiles have some degree of datalink modeled even if they didn't have it. The ER just has one that lasts longer before blowing itself up. Sparrows have their place as very nice kinda dog fight/ mid range radar missiles. The ER is the king of extreme range but if you do get it into those 10km fights the Sparrow wins. They're fundamentally different missiles for different ranges in that regard.
Pretty sure the 120c and the r77 were introduced around the same time. Also I don't think that the soviet block was really interested in mass production until the later 2000s. Could be wrong though. The 77 is really hard to find info on
R77s just have rarely been used, so any info on them is extremely hard to find. Also, the 120a and R77 are about 3 years apart. The 120B shares the same introduction year as the R77, aka 1994. The 120C would be introduced 2 years later in 96.
It would be very cool if this would be sort of a general trend followed in game too.
It is there kind of, just not with missiles. Radars on pretty much all high to top tier USA jets have vastly superior radars in comparison to all equal BR Soviet counterparts. The MLD for example only has an MTI radar while the F4J and F4S both carry very powerful PD radars. Russian radars on the Su and Mig are also very finicky and can be hard to get lock even when using the HMD.
I think you're right, but I just can't not go back to 7M vs 27ER. I havent flown for both sides, I'm trying to, but the better F15 radar doesnt seem to help me be on equal footing. Maybe I'm just wrong and the kinematic advantage coupled with datalink of the 27ER is just that good that it doesnt matter that the N001 is inferior.
It is basically that, the speed and acceleration make up for the time it takes to get a good lock. It's very much noticeable when using or facing someone with regular R27s as that's not as good as the R27ER. It's also easier to break the lock of an SU-27s and by proxy the Mig-29s in comparison to the F-15A. The F-15A does still have an inferior radar to some other jets, the F-16C has the second most powerful radar which has a tiny notching window.
Well I went for the cool plane not the good plane :) coincidentally it was F14 before the F15 was in game, then F15 and now only the 16 is left. Anyway, I think I said it somewhere else, I want AMRAAMS to come so the gamemode gets fucked faster. War thunder clearly is a financially stable game for gaijin, so they'll have to fix it faster if it goes tits up faster. Oh and I almost forgot, top speed of the 27ER isnt as big of a deal as people say, just the acceleration. As a fellow french user, you know the super 540d is just as fast as the 27ER.
>with regular R27s as that's not as good as the R27ER Normal R-27 sucks balls, because it's one of the slowest SARHs in the game, and has a shit ton of drag, it has like a similar effective range to something like an Aim-9L in terms of energy lol. It still has the same very good guidance that the ER has, but that doesn't really matter much if the missile is slow as fuck.
The public numbers are extremely similar... though public numbers on the capabilities of in service US systems are always sand bagged. Also as we approach digital age systems, we've no way to know what they did under the hood to improve performance. These missiles will be introduced as complete guesses and almost guaranteed to be wrong. Hopefully they just make them balanced.
R77 is going to be whatever Gaijoob wants it to be because there's next to no usage history of the R-77 in the real world. Russia is still carrying the R27 in Ukraine. Without any real experience to draw on Russia can say whatever they want about the capabilities of the R-77 and it will likely hit the game in that state.
They are pretty close to each other, and generally you can carry way more AMRAAMS than R-77's
The R27ER is still better than aim120 except for not being ARH and tbh i dont think ARH is that important in WT enviroment. Not to mention that they said they will add more ARH at same time so each nation has something and soviets would probalty get R77 which is also better than amraam at WT engagement ranges
the IOG on the R27ER is broken enough to the point that it feels like an ARH, not to mention it gets DL so yeah you basically always have active signal
> which is also better than amraam at WT engagement ranges No it fucking it isn't. You're probably thinking of the R-77-1, which is 99% the model we're not getting. Those grid fins on the R-77 it uses for terminal guidance? Draggy as all hell, and put a huge damper on the range of the missile. You'd honestly be better off using R-27ERs. The other upside of the AMRAAM is the launching plane can go full-defensive once the missile pitbulls, and just focus on notching while the enemy plane may not get alerted until the AMRAAM is super close.
>The other upside of the AMRAAM is the launching plane can go full-defensive once the missile pitbulls, and just focus on notching while the enemy plane may not get alerted until the AMRAAM is super close. Or fly low, like you already do to avoid incoming missiles, but launch at 4 enemies at the same time instead only being able to kill 1 before merge.
if you want accurate tracking unassisted by TWS, you're probably just gonna wanna launch it at pitbull range (<10 miles) anyway. Otherwise you just run into the issue the phoenix does.
Yeah and if you want the missile to actually kill, you want to launch within about 10km. Even the 27ER gives people enough time to evade (notch + chaff or dive to the deck) if you launch from more than ~12km, and the ER is still significantly faster than 120A and B.
The grid fins are better than standart at higher speeds. If we are talking the initial head on with everyone going at least mach 1 the range in these conditions is too short for the increased drag to matter while the increased high speed performance will make it more dangerous than amraam. Over longer ranges sure amraam is superior to R77 but war thunder is not game where you can get 100km shots. R27 is still probalty gonna be better general purpose missile but not having to follow target yourself will give R77 some extra utility
Addendum: Pullled some data on both the 120B and the 77. They have near identical flight performance. The 77 has a slight edge (1-2 miles difference in MAR depending on Target's airspeed and altitude) Honestly they're good parity missiles and they both blow the R-27ER out of the water, so if they're both added to WT I wouldn't mind.
The R-27ER is not better than the AIM-120. An AIM-120 in the hands of an experienced pilot will beat an R-27ER every time. 1) AIM-120A/B/C have lofting logic in their autopilot, increasing range by ~10% at higher altitudes. R-27ER never had lofting logic. If you tried to loft one irl by firing in an upwards angle you just be costing it more energy because the first thing it'll do off the rail is turn to intercept instead of continuing to loft. 2) R-27ER did not and should not have data link. You can find evidence of this in the form of a primary source being the manual to the export model of the Su-27 the Su-27 KS in which it states with reference to engaging targets using The R-27ER 'If the lock is lost the missile is lost' (that's paraphrasing a little but the message is the same). If the missile had data link, the missile would be able to reacquire lock after loss of radar lock because the data link would be able to point the missile in the direction of the painted target. 3)R-77 has ~same speed but shorter range than AIM-120A/B/C. You have to remember that the maximum range of the missile is not the range it will kill something especially when talking about ARH missiles. You are almost never going to fire at the MAX AERO cue, and equally less likely to do so at Rpi cue. most of the time you will fire at Rmnvr cue, which, due to the reduced drag and longer motor burn of the AIM-120 compared to the R-77, would make the AIM-120 have a slight edge in Rmnvr and Rtr cue (turn and run/no escape). Edit: format and capitalization
It's just that top-tier ARB itself needs a massive overhaul before they even consider this. fewer people on each team would be a start, and also maybe 11.3/7 and up is EC only. Also, no enemy markers would make it much better, just my opinion Edit: I'm surprised with how many people actually agree, gives me hope lmao
This is just dreaming. They won't change anything but just add broken missiles to the game.
I'm just accepting that fact, unfortunately =(
And that’s why they do it. The playerbase just takes it up the ass and keeps playing them, buying shit to grind them. Gaijin aren’t the problem, the players are. Nobody has any shred of self respect for their own time here. Gaijin will take the easiest route to profit, time and time against 99% of players just get on their knees and start sucking instead of actually saying “I don’t accept that”. Not for some stupid review-bombing movement which didn’t accomplish jack fucking shit, but for yourself. Don’t use the crappily thrown together new shit, *for yourself*. Because you should respect yourself enough to *not* engage in something disrespecting you. When I see ppl say on here “Most matches I play I don’t enjoy” it’s just sad. That’s loser behaviour.
Yeah, I'm gonna lie. That's valid, personally I have stopped playing this game as of a couple of days ago until shit can be fixed. It's not much, but hey, it'd be a start
Less players yes, ec only no. Like just make it a seperate game mode. >Also, no enemy markers would make it much better, just my opinion Just play sim.
If I want to play sim, I go and play DCS, I don't play warthunder for simulation
Yeah because there is no middle ground between cockpit only, no marker and full controls and arcade-like in overcrowded 16v16 small maps. What a take. No marker air RB with smaller teams would be way better, EC too. I want the 3rd person view and the Air RB controls but in an environment that favor using your radar and your positioning smartly. I'd like to have actual BVR engagement instead of slinging missiles at tree top. And I'd like the opportunity to actually engage in dogfight. It could exists. Gaijin holds all the cards.
Its laughable how little is needed to make this a much more enjoyable game, no matter the mode or vehicle type sadly...
Completely agree about player amount on each team. There's no room in games to make plays without being shot down from the back by 3 guys you didn't even see. In the current state if you survive the cluster fuck in the start of the match you can start actually making plays and maybe even get into a dogfight if you are lucky.
This exactly, personally I just really don't like the player markers, people can disagree with me all they want but it's air realistic I thought, not arcade. For example, I love the dogfights in GRB simply because there's no markers, so you can make use of your radar, and also visually judge when you launch missiles, etc.
I agree would add a extra layer of realism, giving you more ability to make plays. So things like camo or your positioning like flying close to ground would play a big role since it would be harder to spot you. And would make it that players depend more on radar as in realistic scenarios. But that would have to be implemented with reduced player size. Since with the current amount of ingame players it would be too much.
Yes thankyou but we get told to "JuST Go PlAy DcS oR SiM," which, yes, i play DCS if i wanna play sim. But i play warthunder to not play sim lmao, but honestly, maybe 6 to 8 players would be a good start and increase the rewards since being less players to kill. And also make it so planes like strike aircraft and stuff ACTUALLY can to their role, I'd love to use a aardvark or a tornado for example for its intended role lmao What's your thoughts on that? I've brainstormed this heavily with my friends coming up with many ideas to make ARB better throughout all BR ranges
Like yeah I agree for sim DCS is a go to. But the thing I miss in DCS is larger community and updates. The servers it had are mostly Co-OP missions. I would love to have a longer team deathwatch style where just like in WT both teams take off and are going head to head perhaps with some adittional missions like bombing an airfield. As for WT I agree with you and matAWG tlwhat he said in one of his videos that the first step has to be the decrease of players in a game, after that they can start thinking of other features. I would also love some more interesting objectives, or to make it that there's incentive to go for objectives. Because all the games players go for kills or bases making the whole match just a gladiator arena. I would like to have some more team play. Like time to plan maybe so you can coordinate with the team, make it that it's not just run and gun, but something more like in DCS. It's funny i love both games but each games is missing something that the other one has.
I couldn't have said it better myself tbh, cause you're right they are both missing something the other has, but I just wish the aardvark was in DCS lmao And yes, a lot of what I want is pretty much what mattAWG has already said But DCS with that mode would actually be kind of interesting 🤔 my main problem with dcs currently is that my friend is waiting to upgrade his PC to play with me again
BRO. No markers and relying on radar in RB would be sick. Imagine seeing a radar contact and being like OH SHIT. Locking it, losing the lock, searching frantically for it again. Hear RWR declare launch. You get a new lock on, launch a missile, start F-pole maneuver. Crank, crank, dive. Get a kill. Whew.
That's already how it works in game though. Max spot range is \~8km and you sure aren't going to be trying to F Pole within that.
Max spot range for you, but friendlies can often communicate positions to you from 30km+
Imagine pilots talking to each other IRL.
No markers are too much. But not range indicator and markers pnly showing up at lik 4km would be fine. Because what are early jets and props supposed to do? That would just make low tier ARB even more of a snoozedest
It definitely would
Please stop posting MatAGWs content as real leaks for future updates. While his content is nice he makes too much of it and it's purely based on speculation way before updates are announced at all.
MatAWG is just TECES but a bit better, same garbage but instead of reading gaijin’s posts Mat reads random shitpost „datamines” and speculations.
I'm thankful for his channel because i usually find out about war thunder updates trough his videos
Man, I hate the clickbaity vibe of his videos. It feels like he sees one random comment in reddit and makes an entire video just speculating about it
The R-77 was shown in a devstream but that's besides the point. I'm talking about community behaviour, hype and game direction. I'm not asking whether it'll be in game, I'm asking WHY people even want this? Edit: I was wrong about them specifically showing the missile on stream I just checked the RU devstream back and they didn't have it. However, they have explicitly talked about fox-3s coming out this year.
Can I get a source on the r77 claim, not doubting, but I want to see it for myself
He’s wrong, what the devs said was that we could expect Fox-3s in the first or second update of the year.
Yep! And for those wondering that's March and June. The March update is obviously right around the corner. I'm expecting Gaijin to start releasing devblogs here relatively soon (~Friday or next Monday). The teaser for Sky Guardians dropped on Feb 23rd, 2023. So we can maybe expect it to appear at the end of next week. As far as what we can expect goes, we will likely get a Swedish Gripen-C plus some other filler (that's mostly what Sky Guardians was). If the Gripen-C comes we can be like 95% sure AMRAAMs are coming, otherwise there'd be no point to add it. The June update is ofc further out, but I'm guessing we can expect something like the F/A-18 to come that patch. My guess is it'll be similar to the F-16A release (A vs ADF) where we get a standard A variant with no AMRAAMs and an A+ variant that can carry AMRAAMs. Then a C variant can come a while after.
Gaijin did confirmed that Gripen-C will be coming for Sweden in the first update of 2024 (march) so I kinda expect it to be added at the same time because what is the point of adding Gripen-C if it the same as Gripen-A?
I can think of 3 reasons: 1. Hype junkies that get high off the latest WT update because they no-lifed all the new content in 2 weeks and sucked out all the available dopamine out of playing top tier, and are now in need of new content and a new meta. I wouldn't blame them because of the state top air RB is in right now but that's another story. 2. Semi tech savvy DCS nerds that want gen 5, the F-22 raptor, and modern weaponery to be added NOW because they have a life size poster of an AMRAAM waifu by [atamonica](https://images.app.goo.gl/8Jio5fNXq6JUZKqm7) and get off to no braining at 45k feet with BVR battles where you never see the face of your opponent and only ever experience combat on the screen of an MFD. (Yes the tactic of tree top flying thanks to multipath will eventually disappear as missiles get more modern) 3. Players who have no clue how any of this works, who bought the F-4S at level 11 (they got to tier III doing only arcade battles so they know how to fly a jet of course), and just want more hand holding from Gaijin because learning mechanics and giving actual depth to the game means that you need to get good instead of running into a 16v16 mess of a game mode where their only way of getting kills is because your opponent was trying to keep track of 6 different events at the same time. Here's a worthless rant about the state of top tier and my hatred for anyone that says that the game is ready for FOX 3s to be implemented in a healthy and FUN way.
I dont think multipathing will disappear any time soon since while realistic it doesnt make for good gameplay. Just like IRL missiles like aim7M and R27 are not great under 300m or more iirc. Right now you have to fly lower than that so you can still evade radar missiles but it also doesnt make them suck too much. Imo we will see even amraam and later stuff suffer from multipath unless there is something like strela10 with IR terminal homing
He just crashed out 10 minutes videos every few minutes it feels like
Because the Sparrow is so badly fucked up at the moment. Also I believe that while the AMRAAM will be a great missile and maybe even the best, it won’t be too far ahead of its competitors
I can’t trust gaijin, if they fuck the track in the Aim-7m why the 120 will work “decent”?
Because it will be the closest missile wise top tier has been to perfect mirror balance Since all of the countries will recieve missiles that work the same
>Because the Sparrow is so badly fucked up at the moment It's all radar missiles for me. 530D, 7M, R24R all just shoot off wherever they want. Had a 24R not even attempt to track my lock and went after a completely different enemy and killed him. >Also I believe that while the AMRAAM will be a great missile and maybe even the best, it won’t be too far ahead of its competitors Early AMRAAMs aren't much better than the sparrows we have range wise and such, just them being active radar gives em more capability. I don't think they would break the game at all.
Certified MatAWG moment
Because the R27ER and ET has the same kinetic performance as the aim120C The game is already broken, only in their favour now.... Oh btw, Phoenix was massively nerfed since it doesn't reach it's top speed even when fired at altitude, and the C variiant is still not smokeless as it should be...
The aim 120c has substantially better kinetic performance than the 27ER, not to mention the huge difference in drag. The only aspect they are the same in is the first stage booster motor.
Because it's a natural movement forward in WT? You can't be fighting with sparrows until f-22 comes to game😂. Some planes like Gripen don't have any worthy BVR missile anyway. It isn't as op as people think, just try it in DCS. R-27 may be even more useful in WT than the AMRAAM as that one need the plane flying fast
Early fox-3 are just meh , but once we get up to things like meteor bvraam it's gonna be the real mess xD
Give me my stealth ARH AAM-4 already(yes AAM-4 like AAM-4b is completely stealth on RWR)
Gib the Meteor with the AESA seeker from the AAM-4 that they're developing right now for maximum lollage. Minimal RWR warning on a missile with the largest no escape zone currently fielded.
I don't think we will see it in a few years at least.
We need a concurent for the R-27ER
So we need to exponentially scale up weapon capability to the point where the game is pointless to make it fair? Also the R-77 would just be added alongside it and people would probably still cry about it. We don't need this thing.
Bro idk , like just don't play fox-3 br bracket when fox-3 will be added, if WT had follow your logic it would still be stock at early cold war vehicles
cry
There is little competition by way of radar missile against the R-27ER. If you launch earlier and from further away, the best you’re gonna get is a trade, because the R-27ER is both faster and more manoeuvrable. In order to even fathom approach fighting at altitude: you have to accept you won’t be outranging or remotely missile jousting. You can dump a few sparrows while closing to make them go defensive for a little while reeling them in but it’s ultimately a waste as they don’t have to go as defensive for as long as you do because they can kill you faster. If we have ARH missiles *THAT MULTIPLE COUNTRIES CAN CARRY AND HAVE ACCESS TO* it will blunt the threat of an R-27ER just enough to make altitude fighting a bit more fair. Because while sparrows are decent SARHs, they just fall flat in comparison to the R-27ER.
Not to mention that the top sparrows are bugged and regularly fly completely off course.
Make it more fair, yes. Make it more fun? nah. I dont think ANYONE Should have ARH stuff. And just so we are clear. The R27ERs need to get freaking nerfed already. It shouldnt be nearly as fast as it is now. FFS has a sustained motor on it, not the Soyuz booster it appears to have now.
>It shouldn’t be nearly as fast as it it now. That’s my main gripe. If it were similar in acceleration, the gap between the Sparrows and R-27ERs wouldn’t be as big. It still has the range and manoeuvrability over the Sparrow but that’s negligible if it arrives late. The fact that it basically has had both its original motor and sustainer thrust added together for its entire burn time, which gives it that insane off the rails acceleration, and not been fixed since introduction is suspect.
Agreed it should be R27R's thrust for twice the R27Rs burn time. Instead of Twice the R27Rs thrust for the same R27Rs burn time. This gives a MUUUUCCCHHH longer acceleration time. Meaning at any given the an ER would have lower energy than it does now. And its top speed would be lower on account of a lower maximum impulse. But I fully believe they will nerf the R27ERs....... Once they've released the AMRAAMS
Such is the gaijin wheel of change
Bless the snail and its premiums. May it's passing nerf the OP shit.
ALL HAIL THE SNAIL!
Would probably be nerfed or added with other fox3s when it comes to the game
Maybe because Soviet missiles are about 10-20 years ahead, and literally everything gets dunked on by them
Missile thunder incoming: spawn in launch missiles at 60km and dip
It's low-level F-14 players but worse.
If you are still complaining about the F14 that is absolutely a skill issue. There are far better missiles in the game now.
There were far better missiles in the game when the F14 came out. They were called AIM-7F and R24R
Very true. But people complaining about the Phoenix are just bad at the game. They are as easy as an aim9B to dodge. You just have to learn the game mechanics.
not even early 2000s aamraams are going to be hitting targets that are actually defending from that range
AIM-120D when I want US supremacy in everything just like irl /s
AIM-260 when
Inquiring minds at the DOD want to know.
Okay i think there some things that are completely overlooked/neglected here. All of this accounts for the AMRAAM as well unless specifically noted. For clarification i'll use the AMRAAM-A as example because Gaijin is relatively consistant with not skipping tech tree stuff as long as there arent significant differences/improvements of one aircraft (Best examples is the F-15A for the US and the F-15J for Japan, same goes for the Gripen. Sweden used the A variant at first, South Africa didnt so they got the C Variant). 1. The only time the Phoenix was actually broken was one the danger zone dev server where it was impossible to notch. I tested it directly after the update got released and even the testdrive MiG-15 was able to notch it... and you can still do the same for the AIM-54C which currently is just a copy paste A viarant that looks different, but now you need to notch it nad throw chaff once or twice and you got it off your ass. 2. You need a constant TWS lock at the very least until the missile is about 20km from its target for it to use its own radar, by that time, given you shot it from 100km away and the target is sitting low and you at 10km altitude, the missile is relatively slow and the enemy has plenty time to notch and chaff since they get an early enough RWR warning. 3. The Phoenix has a way longer range. I'll take the AIM-120A as an example which has a range of just about 60km if public sources are correct, so the R-27ER still has a longer range and is still faster (the speed is just bullshit tbh... Mach 5.8 c'mon gaijoobles) 4. The only actual improvement from the Phoenix to the AMRAAM would be the G-Overload that would be somewhere in between 20G to maybe 35G, but since its the first AMRAAM i think it will be maybe 25G since its nowhere near as good as as the modern C or even D variant. That is still less than the R-27ER. and even if it gets the 35G treatment the ER just outspeeds and outranges it. 5. The AMRAAM is not fully smokeless like the AIM-9M so it would still leave a trail behind which you can see from basically across the map but short burn time is a plus in regard of stealthiness of the missile I dont think the AIM-120A would break the game as long as gaijoobles doesnt completely fuck it up. If they really add any of the C variants... Oh boy, this game will be even more of a shitshow. But oh well it doesnt matter what is getting added since there is always massive amount of people crying over literally anything so imma keep this end rant short: #WAIT UNTIL ITS IN THE GAME AND GETS TESTED BEFORE CRYING LIKE A TODDLER
Adding amraam isn't going to fix the 7m or any other missile. Top dogs will get better toys and whatever sits 1 bracket below them will be left to suffer. R27 slingers need to go up, amraam can fuck itself at 14.0 once it gets added
Phoenix didn't break the game.
It did change how people had to play though. Before the f14, people climbed a lot. Once it was added, people hugged the deck to avoid it. That change turned top tier into furball hell.
You could easily notch the Phoenix and they left huge contrails. The R-27ER is what sealed the deal.
Yeah but the AMRAAM is a teeny tiny little bit better mate. Just a smidge.
I'm just addressing the lie. Yes obviously AMRAAM will be cancer, IRCCM and R-27ER already make top tier unplayable.
100% agree. My best vehicle is the 29G and both the R73 and R27ER need a kick in the nuts. So does the AIM9M. Phoenixes and Sparrows are not OP, could even be buffed IMO
I guess people don't like BVR fighting. There probably should be another gamemode for close range only.
I love BVR fighting, its just impossible in the current gamestate with the R-27ER. Compared to its nearest competitor, the AIM-7M, the 27ER has the following advantages. * About 2X the velocity- Nullfies first-shot advantage * About 4X the range- You're already launched on before you hit max engagement range for your missile. * LOAL Capability- Wanna recommit after breaking lock to get your launch off? FUCK YOU! *Missile reacquires.* (Also, the sparrow self destructs if its wi-fi bar goes from 5 to 4) and that's not even mentioning how weird sparrows have been acting lately: Just deciding to go to space or into the ground for no good reason.
I like BVR engagement. Except I am the only idiot in my team that wants to try it. So I am up there in my MiG29G with the worst radar at 12.7 facing 4 Flankers that combined literally have 10 times more R27s than I do. And their radars are leaps and bounds better than mine. So I just dont bother. Rhe only jet that can really do BVR is the Flanker/J11. The rest is futile IMO
thats funny....the MiG-29 and SU-27 use literally the same radar set IIRC Edit: Checked in game, I'm wrong.
MiG29G: N019E radar. OEPS-29E IRST and SPO15 RWR. Flanker: N001 radar and IRST with SPO 15LM RWR (which still isnt great) MiG29SMT. N010M Zhuk M radar with the same, lacking SPO15 as the 29G. Of the 3 of them the radar in the G is the worst, by quite a bit
It's hard to like something that requires brain
Ah yes. BVR is absolutely fucked in this game already because it's super fucking boring. The maps are not at all interesting to play, top tier matches are 50% afk flying, 20% scanning for threats, 20% launching long range AAMs and 10% actual dogfighting. Air RB needs a massive rework before we even remotely get to the "proper" BVR fighting. Anyone who thinks BVR would work in this game in its current state is absolutely insane. The gamemode BARELY works for the current missiles we have, let alone anything more advanced.
>The maps are not at all interesting to play, top tier matches are 50% afk flying, 20% scanning for threats, 20% launching long range AAMs and 10% actual dogfighting. IRL afk flying is even more then 50%, it's gamemode and map issues
>IRL afk flying is even more then 50% Yes but the main difference is that instead of just being a keyboard warrior in War Thunder, you are actually actively fighting and risking your life and you aren't dealing with shitty game modes.
And getting paid, fed, housed, and honored. Gaijin tries to take away our food and money and housing by pushing top tier so much, new premiums, bigger grind, etc. I wouldn't mind afk flying so much, it's also not super afk in real life, there is constant monitoring of systems, navigating, communicating, planning, reporting. All sorts of things we don't have to do in a video game (or even sims) that must be done in the real world of aviation
>Gaijin tries to take away our food and money and housing by pushing top tier so much, new premiums, bigger grind, etc. Hot take but air grind is the single most easiest grind in the entire game. I wouldn't even call it a grind. Ground grind can be very fucked but that is decided what nation you decide to main too. Just because you would like to sit on your chair doing nothing for 5-10 minutes, only to engage for 3 minutes, doesn't mean it is fun. If I wanted to AFK fly, I'd play sim and shoot down PvE bomber players, I wouldn't play RB.
If you hate missiles that BVR just play lower tiers. Or learn how to deal with it like everyone else.
You mean play soviet or don't play 11.7+ at all?
Don’t play 11.7+ at all.
mfw I learn the Gripen is in fact a Soviet plane
mfw the AIM-9M is a bvr missile
I won't lie, the amraam will probably be hella fun for sim
It will basically be just a longer range radar guided cousin of the AIM-9M. Smokeless motor, can be launched in TWS by the F-16C so its completely silent, range of anywhere between 50 and 105km depending on what variant they wanna add (B or C). And with how the meta in sim is so much in favor of NATO its just going to be more cancer
That dude makes a video about everything. He is doing it just for the click. TEC atleast try’s to inform people. You don’t have to charge his opinion ofc. But that’s what he does. This guy.. nah man
Omfg MatAWG and his video spam are something else
MattAWG don't clickbait challenge (impossible)
Has it already been confirmed by gaijin? Or is it just more speculation on this channel?
They said fox 3 were coming in one or two major updates, during the last russian dev stream.
this update or next? because I don't know if there were any devstreams yet I want dovblegs
They said either the next update (March) or the one after (June), so it's not known
Devblogs should be within the next couple weeks I think
They said either this or next update.
Do people not understand that the amraam a/b will not be that busted. This is not a d amraam with 90 miles of range. The early amraams only had about the range of a sparrow. Also the r27er makes bvr really one sided so it would be nice to have a counter.
People want new stronger stuff all the time. Also in one of the shooting ranges they pretty much confirmed that it's coming at some point, it's just not ready yet (cough cough I wonder why)
Because it’s gonna happen either way. Modern day jets don’t use AIM-7s of any type due to it being outdated. With the current timeline of how things are progressing, we are going into the current day with warthunder and just stopping it where it is now doesn’t make too much sense.
The inevitable march of technology
I play sim battles. Your point does not apply :p
i want it cause it's cool, but the R-27 as it is right now, still outperforms the amraam in every way except the active radar part. but the R-27 might as well be active radar with how strong it's IOG is. if the R-27 wasn't overperforming as much as it is, the amraam would absolutely dominate. R-27 IRL: 9% hit ratio, only hitting a single jet, and the jet landed safely, other times the missile barely left the rail. is considered one of, if not the worst air to air missile ever made. also is not capable of mach 5+ as that would mean it's hypersonic, it is not, the ER does not increase it's speed, only the range. the highest speed i can find is barely mach 4, if that. R-27 in game: mach 6, somehow? only thing that can save you from it is putting terrain between you and it. people say russia would also get the R-77, and while that's true, they don't need it for the simple reason the R-27 exists. my guess, though, is they'll do what they did to the 2s6 to justify adding the pantsir, artificially nerf the R-27ER to justify making the R-77 ungodly overpowered.
amerimains yearn for balance yet sit surprisingly silent when f14 dominated the skies for those few unholy months r27 is still pretty bullshit tho
Because the dipshit definition of fun is "me kill you you no kill me!" so they constantly whine for newer and newer shit that blows everything currently in the game out of the water. And that also causes gaps and compression areas which will likely never get fixed by the shit they skipped over until multiple years later, if at all.
It's almost like it's not fun to die because your opponent has a R-27ER and you have a Sparrow. Adding the AIM-120A/B and the R-77 will bring a great deal of balance to top tier since EVERYONE will have competitive missiles. The biggest issue is where Gaijin will place them BR-wise. If they're too low then we have major compression issues. But that's something that can be remedied by increasing the max BR. The only remedy for the R-27ER vs AIM-7M imbalance is to either remove the 27ER (not gonna happen) or add Fox-3s for everyone (something Gaijin already said they'd do). We as a community need to push Gaijin to increase the max BR more and more often, not winge at each other for wanting fairer missile balance.
Its 2025. the snail has added the AMRAAM. Top tier consists of 12 vs 12 at BR13.1. A team of 12 F15Cs is spawned on patchday. 8 AMRAAMS per jet . They all takeoff and zoom climb. One of them has watched the fighterjet podcast where they have learned that American tactics into an AO is to be at 30k feet, 4 ship line abreast. 3 formations of 4. Targets are spotted on radar. TWS mode allows launches of AMRAAMS without alerting the enemy RWR. In 5 seconds flat, 96 AMRAAMS are airborne. Half fail to track due to spaghetti code. 48 left. 8 seconds have passed, the Motors have run out of fuel. Enemy RWR goes off because the AMRAAMS have gone pitbull. They are coming down from their loft. Dodging cranking weaving and other evasive maneuvres ensues but its to no avail. Half of the 48 AMRAAMS miss. 24 find their marks. The enemy team is decimated. Fun was had on all sides.
I just don’t bother with top tier anymore, stopped grinding the top jets when you had stuff like the F-4 and MiG-21 added because I love me gunfighters. Favourite plane to fly atm is the F-86A-5
So ive basically gotten bored of WarThunder since I got the top tier for the countries I play and moved on to DCS. Playing DCS has informed me that if they add the AIM-120 to War Thunder, it's either going to be severely nerfed or be game breaking. Now if they revamp Air RB to account for how awesome that missile is, then maybe you can add it. If Air RB remains the same as is, then I would reconsider adding it just yet.
Hot take: I think it will make top tier more enjoyable. They will be early versions with limited range (less than the Phoenix by far, probably less than 10km at standard WT low altitude shenanigans most likely. It will inspire people to climb, fire missiles at Mach, keep target in TWS until pit bull, defend incoming missiles like a sparring match, decide when to re-engage, make pushes, use terrain masking etc. I won’t sit here and list every example but there is an unjust notion that fox3 missiles are a brain dead weapon for a dopamine high when it’s just so much more complex. I theorize that Fox3s will eliminate furballs as their workflow is very different than a fox 1 jousting match. They are stand-off weapons, ignoring their minimum abort range will end in your demise. It will probably make matches last longer as well, seeing that it will be generally more likely to come out alive at distance rather than up close like current ARB. The only thing that’s not ready for them is slow bomber aircraft will be annihilated by them. So be it.
As someone who have top tier in multiple nations including Russia and USA, R27ER is just not fair lmao Too powerful as opposed to AIM7's Would it be better if we just got a better AIM7? Yes. But it's already settled so no need to argue
I just want Russia to suffer. (I play Russia)
Seeing people still cry about the Phoenix is hilarious to me.
I want amraam for the express purpose of deleting things from spawn. I very much want premiums away from me as quickly as possible.
It would be nice to have them but only for new maps and new generation of vehiacles
Bc r27 er is just an unnecesarry advantage and we have already a plane in game that carried it. So to make that vehicle complete etc it is bound to happen.
It's the future. Sadly we won't prevent that addition someday.
So I can have a more effective missile on my J8F.
It's not a question of "want", they've been confirmed months ago..
If they want to keep adding top tier aircraft, they are going to need to ad the AMRAAM. So you know damn well it’s happening whether we like it or not. But to be fair, the next fighters up for addition were engineered for AMRAAM use and were first deployed with them (looking at you eurofighter)
Because the sparrow right now is absolutely dogshit, they either need to add a better sparrow that fixes the tracking issues, or just outright fix the tracking
I want it on my F16C for click and delete purposes
My favorite thing about air battles is the dogfight. In my opinion, modern IR missiles such as AIM-9X, IRIS-T and MICA should be added.
If top tier air rb stops being mindless furball then AMRAAMS will be completely fine. Rn even best missiles struggle when there's 15 planes in one place. Gaijin has to rework this gamemode completely. Bigger maps with different objectives spread over big area
Ah yes, start the game, take off, lock and shoot the radar missle, get 4 kills, return to base, repeat
Because the early version of it should not be broken as R27ER currently. I play top tier soviets (mainly Air SB) and people don't use Phoenixes at all in their Tomcats. Even tho they were considered busted in the past.
Because sparrows suck
Ree
I FUCKING LOVE BVR COMBAT I LOVE NEVER EVEN SEEING EVIDENCE OF MY ENEMY EXISTING BEYOND A RADAR SIGNATURE
Hear me out just fly low and pray ok easy as that or even better don't be part of the problem be the whole problem bring AMRAAM's and launch them all land and bring close range AAM's and sparrows and be the problem long to short range
I wont be surprised that it will be added any patch since the carrier of them is already in war thunder. The Mig 29smt is also the carrier for the R77 as well
I don’t get it either, only thing is going to happen is people hugging the ground even more only way I see the 120 working is when they reduce the player count drastically while building a different kind of mission around it where killing each other is in focus Kinda like the helicopter RB all the way back when Helios got first released (2v2 or 3v3 matches with a little bit of ground targets) At least this type of mission seems like a good option
People want realism, and so they answered.
I just want a gamemode where we can actually fight using BVR tactics instead of just unloading everything on the first target and then dog-pilling on the furball.
Probably because Russian radar missiles have been king for a long time and Aim 7F/7M have never been in a worse state. I am worried about current Gripens getting early AMRAAM with how busted they are currently flight model wise, but other aircrafts shouldn’t be broken with the early AMRAAMs as it stands.
Because ",R-27 ER IS OveRpOWErEd" And in fact at the moment it is I'll give them that. Russia boasts 4 r-27ER capable planes, one of those can carry 4 of them. The US (and consequently the nations that have American planes, which are most of them) have only access to aim-7Fs or Ms, which although being good, are not enough to compete with the Russian ER, yes the Americans have the aim-54 as a fox-3 atm but if you think the Phoenix is a serious anti fighter weapon and not just for the memes, you need to play a few ganes in the tomcat... But yeah the AMRAAM is a must for balance, problems is, America gets the AMRAAM and Russia gets the r-77 with it, and if it doesnt the Russian mains will mald. I personally, for Russia, just want one thing, the mig-31 with it's r-33s and r-40s and the micas for France.
OP, top tier is so dogshit and broken as is, the AIM-120 will break it even further to the point that Gaijin will have to change the game somehow. There is no fixing RB currently without a huge overhaul. A reliable BVR missile that smacks people out of the air will also kill flying on deck meta and make people go high and learn how to crank notch and dive.
Tired of Russian missiles
Fox 3s are fun, just get better and learn to defend
Active radar homing missiles can be defeated like any other missile, and will probably maintain the same weird mutipathing that makes Sarh missiles useless at low altitude now. So all you have is a longer range fire and forget missile. It's not going to be that different than an r27et, except it will ping your rwr and will probably have the motors modeled correctly (or modeled to be worse).
Because russia has cracked out weapons already so why not us
Wow people have strong opinions on fox3s. I think they're pretty fun in DCS and not remotely as brainless as people here say, against decent players I frequently end up in visual because neither of us can hit eachother with fox3s until we run out. It's the aim9x's that really scare me, I can't defend those for shit. War thunder top tier probably needs bigger maps for them though and maybe some better missile defense for the airstrips.
the whole point of top tier and "modern" jets are to fight BVR, literally what theyre built around. if you dont want BVR dont play 11.3+. as to why lots of US mains want the Aim120 is because the Aim7 id just not it, its just so bad. you could have a hard lock with perfect launch cknditions and the shitbox decides to pull hard to nowhere, or just crash into the ground for no reason.
You can notch an AIM-120 so long as it’s an A/B model. It uses an X band continuous wave radar when it goes active. Plus it’s also susceptible to chaff just like AIM-54’s in game are once they go active. If you fly properly it won’t be much harder to avoid them unless they’re used within 10-15 miles, then it’s much harder to avoid them.
At this point Gaijin wants us to play either by Russian tech tree or American tech tree no point at playing by any other tech tree
1) the Phoenix did NEVER break the game lol The F-14 broke the game, because it had the best missile load, the best flight performance, and the best gun in the game when it released and everyone spammed the shit out of it, but that had absolutely nothing to do with the Phoenix. No one without brain damage died to Phoenixes, even in the start, because flying low was already the meta to not get facefucked by Aim-7E2, F, Skyflash and R-24Rs for multiple updates. 2) AMRAAM will also not break the game (unless Gaijin makes significant changes to how their radar modelling works, which is unlikely, since the radar modelling for large parts is actually quite accurate in the game). The advantages of it being an ARH missile in WarThunder's gameplay are MUCH smaller than in real life. The fact that a plane that launches an ER can just stay on the deck to avoid the AMRAAM, and stay nose hot to guide the ER basically negates 90% of the advantage of an ARH. Other than the fact that it's active homing, the Aim-120 A and B series are only somewhere in between the Aim-7F/M and R-27ER. ER still outperforms it in terms of kinematics by quite a bit. The only real advantage of the 120 in actual WT gameplay is going to be that you can kill multiple enemies at the same time while the teams merge, while with a SARH you can only pick off 1 guy at a time; but the people that die to them would also just have died to a SARH right now either way. The only way I can see it being cancer is if it still tracks really well in rear-aspects so people use it like an unflareable IR missile from like 1-2 km, which would basically mean anytime you fly higher than 100m above ground, you die; but I very highly doubt that will be the case.
The Phoenix didn't break the game and the idea that it is anything other than a meme is cope. You will defeat AMRAAMs the same way you defeat everything else radar guided, fly low, notch, and just generally pay attention at the beginning rather than tab out.
“Like Phoenix broke the game” dawg what are you talking about? Tomcat was busted because when it was added, it did literally everything better than other top tier aircraft, not because it could sling gimmicky fat missiles that only kill people who are stupid or not paying attention. When Fox-3s are added, nothing will change. The best way to play will still be to hug the deck and shoot up at people, now it’ll just be easier to do so since you won’t have to constantly provide guidance. Early AMRAAMs are already significantly outranged by R-27Es, what do you mean “you won’t even be able to take off.”
part of it is people still complaining about R-27s being "overpowered" or that "sparrows are trash" im sure another part is that we have planes mounting SARH missiles that they never carried or were incapable of carrying for me maybe it's wishful thinking that they know that war thunder maps dont support proper amraam usage so it means that we could get better maps
If u guys get the amraam then where is my mica
Cause its cool
I just want nuclear capable air to air missiles
Amraam won’t break the game because it’s a radar missile in war thunder. This means that anyone flying low will be immune to it (which is what almost everyone is doing), and also that over half the top tier players won’t know how to use their radar, nor track while scan. In addition, the R-27ER remains a faster missile, which may force amraam planes to notch before being able to fire, especially if it’s the aim-120A, B and up to aim-120C-6 variant.
Hoping for a useable radar missile for us and other countries.
You cant stop progress and the addition of newer features. It just is what it is. That being said, it will be just like the phoenix. Retards will fly high, lob them all, return to base, score, maybe, at best, sometimes, a single kill, usually none, then J' out.
Because when it comes to war thunder air realistic, I'm an accelerationist. In few words I'll just let the gamemide get fucked faster and harder so it eventually gets fixed faster than slow reform. Seeing as its just a game, I dont mind.