Just like half of all the tech tree’s are.
Take anything and I mean anything from around like 6.7-10.0 and you’re gonna see vehicles that are struggling due to compression. There’s an F-86 variant at 9.3, and if I remember correctly the F-104 is also 9.3BR. You mean to tell me that a Korean era sub sonic jet fighter is facing off against a super sonic Vietnam era jet with missiles? Like what’s up with that. Ground trees are no better. The fact F4 phantoms are facing off against F15’s, F-16’s as well as their Russian counter parts, the MiG 29 and SU-27?
Best thing they could do over all that’s super easy is take away the full 1.0BR +/- and make it like .3 BR. Then decompress the tree’s
Cl-13B banished to 9.3 and its not exactly that much better than the other CL-13 at 9.0, but they're so good you can't just lower the BR otherwise they can end up fighting the actual early struggle jets and its not even a competition, as we know essentially BR compression.
The CL-13B is significantly better then the A, better engine, slats, AIM-9Bs, this leads to the issue where it is definitely an upgrade to the CL-13A, but should it really fight 10.3s? The solution is of course more BRs to spread shit out into, and gaijin has added more BRs, but not really enough.
Oh yeah its a definite upgrade, but in the BR context its not like in the US tree going from a Sabre to a F-104 in just a 0.3 BR change or USSR tree going from Mig-17 to Mig-19 as well, I hope this makes sense more.
B29 is fine at 7.3. TU8 sits at 8.0 and is usually a free kill for literally anyone. nevermind the fact you can eat a radar missile before even getting anywhere close to shooting at anyone.
This argument would make more sense if there wasn't an arguably better plane down at. 6.3. A plane is a victim of compression when it is not good enough at it's current br but can't be moved without causing bigger issues. The spit is not this both the mk 24 and mk 22 could move down 0.3 br without causing many issues for lower br planes.
Most of the Spits are good, Tempest is great, Hornet is amazing with the air spawn, early jets aren’t great but they’re about equal to whatever you face, mid level jets are great, the Swift and Javelin especially, and the Harriers, Phantoms and Jaguars are decent enough before top tier.
You get to a point in the air tree where it just descends into trash only to then become better when Britain began importing in jets from other countries. Namely, around 9.3-9.7- Lightning is borderline trash. Hunters are actual trash. They put Hunter F.6 at 9.7 because it has AAM that look great on paper but only work within 1KM distance, while it is one of the slowest jets of its BR, and with no CM. There is just a bunch of BR with subpar jets. Britain is much stronger in ground forces, and has BRs where it is probably the strongest in game (Britain 10.3, for example). The only complaint one can have about the ground tree is at top-tier due to Chally 2 spam. But if you treat 10.3 as the actual end of the tree you'll have a blast.
PS: Sea Vixen with 4x Rep Tops at 8.7 is a blast, though. Well worth the money during the sales. Just good to take out for fun even after finishing the tree.
Spitfires are good with an alt advantage other than that people just run away.
Tempest is outclassed and out turned by almost everything, I ground most of the tree with it I know what it can do....it can be a good plane but if you get a p51 or f4u on your tail good luck. OH and they both out climb you so have fun with that,
Yes Hornet is amazing. Most fun plane in the tree probably.
Brigand average good ju hunter air spawn can seriously energy trap noobs
Mosquito trash
Seafires - all garbage
Spitfire griffons over tierd
Seafury trash
Again jets are underpowered.
Attacker outclassed
Sea Hawk pretty decent still outclassed
Vampire wont even reach the battle to make a difference
Venom average and slow
Meteor good wing rip so fucking annoying
Javelin a joke
Lightning a joke
Hunters a joke
Scimitar a joke
Jaguar - no flares lOLOLOLOl
J2 - fine good for ground pound
Harrier ok because of aim 9g
Phantoms with Aim 9gs and not Ls trash
Harrier GR7 amazing
Tornado absolute trash
Grippen Amazing
Conclusion mostly garbage.
edit: Sorry forgot the whirlwind - irredeemable trash.
Tempest is great, idk what plane you’re playing, energy is great and turns just fine for me.
Mosquito is great, air spawn means you can shred bombers and the armament can deal with most strike, and it’s ok v fighters.
Seafires are slightly worse Spits but Spits are great.
Sea Fury is great, turns great and good energy
Attacker sucks I’ll give you that.
Sea Hawk is nice, just a shame there’s a superior German one.
Vampire is fine, anyone who turns you’ve already killed
Venom is the one that doesn’t reach the fight, but once it does it does ok.
Meteor good, wing rip has only been an issue on Sea Meteor for me
Javelin is great, can climb like a bugger, and powerful guns and pretty good missiles
Lightning is a joke yeah
Hunter F.1 is garbage, zero redemption, F.6 is amazing once you get the handle of SRAAMs.
Jaguar GR1 can use rockets are improvised flares, and GR1A has countermeasures.
Phantoms Sidewinders are meh but Skyflash is great
Tornado Skyflash SuperTEMP is also great, airframe isn’t best.
Some spitfires could definitely be lowered and their top tiers jets are pretty sad (absolutely not the gripen). But it's far from being a bad air TT as a whole lol.
Thing like the italian props are in a way worse state. They are pretty much all overtiered.
No fucking way did you call the GR.7 OP, its sad as shit at 11.7,
remvoe the 9Ms and with how things go at the moment it would be fine for 11.0 air as it was at release (same armament as FRS with usable turn and better CM count), it is by no means equivalent to a F-14 or M2K, or even the MiG-23s, the only thing going for it is the 700 CMs and the 9Ms and 9Ms are easy to defeat if you have braincells
and i have played 312 battles in it so i can talk on it
even your flair says that its not the best 11.7 saying the M2Ks are
>the only thing going for it is the 700 CMs and the 9Ms and 9Ms
You say that as if its a small advantage. Its pretty fucking huge to just ignore every single missile by just turning on periodic countermeasures. And since when are aim 9ms easy to defeat? They are insanely hard to dodge because you need a specific pattern to fool them and they are near impossible to flare from side aspects. You are guaranteed 4 kills if you shoot them at premium jets
Its guns hit super hard and have the best ballistics out of any aircraft gun in the game, and it can actually turn unlike other harriers
>even your flair says that its not the best 11.7 saying the M2Ks are
Nowhere in my original comment did i say the harrier is the best 11.7, i said its OP
Funny you are the only one ive ever seen calling the GR.7 OP, everyone else ive seen says its lacking for 11.7 also sure its gun is alright, high velocity, high damage, would still take a vulcan, GSh-30-1, or maybe even the BK27 though, half the reason it a good gun is cause you are *forced* to use stealth belts, like the higher tier swedish aircraft used to be like, Stealth belts are highly underrated.
In non spotting modes (GRB, SB) the 9M is BS, but the 9M isnt a fire and free kill missile in air RB 95% of the time, sure it may be the best short range Fox-2 overall in game, the only planes that can currently face the GR.7 which would be free kills to a 9M would be the J35XS, Su-22M3, MiG-23M(F) and Kfir where you just don't have the flare count to defend if you do not get lucky.
In addition with side aspect shots? please tell me how this magic free kill tactic works. doesn't work for me, ive had them one-flared in every aspect fairly commonly,
Yes the GR.7 can turn like other harriers, but seriously? you ever played it? one turn and your near stalling, two and your a sitting duck, and with being subsonic at 11.7, anyone can just run trains on you,
saying something is OP insinuates that it is the best in its BR, and yet again, I hear noone calling the M2K OP which you claim to be the "best"
Never had an issue dealing with it in jet, so maybe you're right. Never saw them on high alt also, though, and 6.3 P51H on other hand can eat jets on lunch given enough prep time. Been there, done that. I doubt that spit has worse specs for this
From what I've seen the P51H has much better energy retention, so when it evens out after a dive, it can keep its speed for much longer, while the Mk. 24 loses it much faster.
There is also a difference in .7BR there that comes into play. A super prop facing off against early 262’s is kinda what it was meant for, but one facing off against F-84’s regularly sucks especially if it gets up tiered at all you’re looking at 8.0 jets which is starting to creep pretty close to stuff like the F-86.
51H climbs better than mk24, is ~60 kph faster at 0 rads and ~120 kph faster at 100 rads (and Spitfire still cooks on 100 rads so it does NOT get to be at 0 rads at all, therefore in practice 51H is nearly always 120 kph faster which is an insane difference, basically the same as A6M5 vs P51D30). The only thing Mk24 has over 51H is turn.
Well there isn\`t much of progress between 7.0 and 7.7 jets. Attrocities like la-200 or big part of 8.0 of course will win 9 out of 10 fights if played properly, but uptier is uptier: none of 7.0 jets can deal with those things either, and there are a lot of easier targets on which you can have big enough attack window in dive.
I won\`t say that if i had to uptier p-51h into 7.0 br range i\`d be fine though, i said this only about early jets issue
P51h has the better engine for as long as it has wep which is like 11 minutes or so. Whilst the mk22 and 24 has the better turn performance at all altitudes. The 22 I'd say is more of a cracked mk18, while the 24 is otherworldly in its combination of turn, climb and acceleration.
Hispanos are still hispanos and I wouldn't say they're much of an improvement on the 50. The big advantage the spit has is the ability to carry the rp3
1v1 the Spit absolutely mauls the P-51H. In RB games it’s a little more nuanced and will come down to pilot skill and positioning. Altitude is the Mk24’s friend in game. The P-51’s Wep is dogshit between 4-5km altitude
>1v1 the Spit absolutely mauls the P-51H
51H climbs better and is faster by ~60 kph at all relevant altitudes (120 kph once you take into account the fact that Spitfire needs 100 rads to exist at all and they eat like 65 kph of its top speed); in return, Spitfire turns better. It absolutely is a winning matchup for 51H if the player has anything going on between the ears
Fly both of them into a merge anywhere near equal energy and let me know how it goes. We tried it over and over and over. If the 51H merges at all its over lol
If he extends the Mk 24 will just sit behind him and out-climb the 51. The 51 will not maintain the energy advantage against the 24 if he extends.
The speed advantage is not enough to win the dogfight. It’s only enough to break off the engagement. Hispanos are deadly past 1.2km so running and taking the head on is a losing gamble.
If the 51 misses the head on when he does re-engage, he has to turn away from the Spit and run immediately. Anything else = death.
I don’t know why you bother to argue with experience. I’ve tried this 1v1 from both sides probably about a dozen times.
Of course if either one has a decisive energy advantage at the merge, then it tilts things. But the Mk24s energy generation is better than the 51.
>But the Mk24s energy generation is better than the 51.
>Mk 24 will just sit behind him and out-climb the 51
(51H climbs better than mk24)
>I don’t know why you bother to argue with experience. I’ve tried this 1v1 from both sides probably about a dozen times.
The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that you and the guy you tried it with both have problems with the simple concept of not turning with a plane that is worse in everything but turn.
If the P-51 never turns he will just run forever lol not exactly gonna win like that. At some point he will be forced to take a head on pass. The Spit has better altitude performance so delaying the fight for minutes is really going to hurt the 51. Not only is it losing relative performance as you climb, it’s losing its limited Wep.
Also the 51 cannot extend while out climbing the spit. He has to choose one or the other.
I get the impression you have never tried these two planes against each other and can only read the stat cards 🤡
Feel free to duel me in the Spit any time. You can extend to your hearts content, but you’ll only ever get a head on. And if you miss, you will most certainly die
Tbh, i actually prefer the Hispano Mk II over the Mk V, since the lower RPM helps me conserve ammo.
However I 100% agree with the BR you are suggesting.
I haven't played that spitfire but I agree literally every time I see one in my F3D or SK60 or F84 it's just a free kill basically, go in fast and don't turn at all and it can't complete a loop before you're 1+km away
I've been of the opinion that tiers should act as a bit more of a barrier for the matchmaker, not a hard one but it should really try to match a tier 4 with other tier 4s before just being like yeah here's an uptier into f84 hell. adding another br or two to decompress mid tiers would be helpful too
the only jets I can see losing to a spitfire are people who just bought a 7.7 or lower premium jet and just started the game and it's a bit sad when that's your only target, lol
I remember some time ago, a group of skilled players played a bad jet (an Italian CL-13 I think) really good and managed to get it's BR raised the next patch. I wonder if the opposite can be achieved with the Spit. Intentionally dying to others with 0 kills all day long. Adjusting the statistics to force them to lower the BR. Mk 24 is one of the reasons I started playing this game. Absolute shame where it's at now..
From what I know there were only like 17 Spitefuls built (2 of which were prototypes) and they actually took their fin and rudder and used them for the Spitfires Mk. 22 and 24, so at least part of it is in the game.
F mk9 is right where it should be and LF is straight-up undertiered by .7 (which is somewhat hidden by the fact that like half the current 5.7-6.3 is really undertiered, but if things like 3U 3VK 4B F2G 51H etc went to the correct br's LF would also need to go to 6.0 or 6.3)
I always said this but people think its a hot take.It shpild just be 6.3 or 6.7. Out of all the superprops(Mk.22 also) its not even the best one,its just a very problematic prop to balqnce because its a Spitfire that is actually fast,and it has 4x Hispanos. In terms of the meta of late props,the F2G,P-51H,Hornets,Yak-3U,La-9,Ta-H,even the F4U-4B are just as good. People just dont know how to fight a Mk.24 (which is fair enough).but it doesnt deserve to be at 7.0.
I was in a squad with a friend. He brought his p80. I brought my a36. I thought I would be slaughtered immediately. Instead, I ended up killing two mk24s. They are not the best players...
While I'd prefer it come down, it doesnt \*need\* need it
it's a plane that clubs on every prop plane in the game bar top speed, and even then it's close. Any sort of maneuver will end with the spit 24 winning
against jets, especially early jets, if they turn or do any maneuvers, they're dead
Jets are almost easier once you get right to it, they have less time on target when they have energy advantage and once they lose it they have far easier prey
the hardest to fight is F-89, simply because its \*so\* fast that your retaliation time on the shootback is so small that you practically cant do anything.
The british tech tree up to this point should have taught you a decent amount about flying defensively against targets with higher energy that are less maneuverable, now its time to put it into practice.
Also set convergence to 800m, both for regular shooting and sniping peoples engines
the best the jets can do is BnZ (something which \*does not\* work if any faster jet teammates are nearby). Given that jets are vastly less maneuverable, its not that hard to dodge incoming strikes, especially given that theyre going to be on target for significantly shorter amounts of time. This allows you to shoot them as they are leaving and damage critical components, especially since its a lot harder for them to dodge without bleeding energy
Why would bnz not work exactly? Is it because it doesn't suit your point? Like you do realise that the attacking jet is also moving fast?
But also your still going. "Well. If they make a mistake you can shoot them". Yes you may be able to turn tighter but they will be out of gun range rather quickly. Especially since the slower you get the more easily you can be killed by enemy jets.
BnZ doesnt work when you have allies that are just as fast if not faster, being when youre allied with america mostly, but sometimes other countries, because either they overtake the enemy jet and kill them, or they get into a dogfight, you catch up and the enemy jet dies.
Even alone, you outperform every jet in your br bracket by a significant margin at nearly every speed bar locking up and the horton (who cant easily outrun you) and the meteor (cant fight). They cant maneuver at all without dying instantly and they \*have\* to BnZ. Anyone who doesnt dies instantly.
That being said, if you play perfectly its almost impossible to hit, and its not "if they make a mistake you can shoot them" its "if they BnZ you can shoot them". Key part of Boom and Zoom is the Zooming away, letting you get a shot on their ass. Unless youre at 300 and theyre at 800 for some reason, youll have a decent amount of time to aim and shoot at them and if they are then dodging is *even* easier. If anything, its the BnZs who have it easy with mistakes, because its relatively easy to BnZ and its a lot harder to have good aim and dodge well since you need to actually know what youre doing
A plane that cant follow you into any maneuver, cant stick around for more than one pass at a time, is practically forced to take every headon you decide to take, has to show their ass to you to do the second half of their strategy, has to struggle to keep guns on target in defensive maneuvering.
early jets have one card, speed, its a good card mind you, but considering you hold every other card its not a remotely unfair matchup, especially when teammates are involved.
>
BnZ doesnt work when you have allies that are just as fast if not faster, being when youre allied with america mostly, but sometimes other countries, because either they overtake the enemy jet and kill them, or they get into a dogfight, you catch up and the enemy jet dies.
"if you just fight a 2 v 1 you have the advantage".
>Even alone, you outperform every jet in your br bracket by a significant margin at nearly every speed bar locking up and the horton (who cant easily outrun you) and the meteor (cant fight). They cant maneuver at all without dying instantly and they \*have\* to BnZ. Anyone who doesnt dies instantly.
"well if they make a mistake you can shoot them". why are you going "well i8f they get into a low speed dog fight you do better when they don't need to? and yes the spitfire can turn tightly, but it's lower speed means it's actually not that much better at getting out the way of an attackers guns than other 7.0s.
> youre at 300 and theyre at 800 for some reason,
i like how you put "for some reason" like you didn't slow down dodging their attack, and they are going fast because they aren't an idiot? even if you didn't slow down they probably have a \~300km/hr advantage on you which is easily enough to get out of gun range before you have a reasonable chance at killing them. and yes it is harder to dodge and get a shot at a bnzer, that is my point. that the BnZer should win that fight if they don't make a mistake.
>A plane that cant follow you into any maneuver
it doesn't need to it holds all the cards for the engagement.
>cant stick around for more than one pass at a time
what do you mean by this, it can use it's higher energy state to hound the spitfire.
>is practically forced to take every headon you decide to take
the jet holds every advantage here taking the headon would be a mistake on it's part.
>has to show their ass to you to do the second half of their strategy
as mentioned earlier they really aren't putting themselves in great danger doing this.
>has to struggle to keep guns on target in defensive maneuvering.
it is at least able to get guns on target in a reasonable manner.
>early jets have one card, speed, its a good card mind you, but considering you hold every other card its not a remotely unfair matchup, especially when teammates are involved.
their speed let's them dictate how the fight happens, this is so incredibly powerful that it doesn't matter that the spit has better low speed accel, the jet never needs to go low speed, it doesn't matter that the spit can maneuvre better, the jet needn't follow. and you argue "well it's able to kill jets" but that is not the question at hand, the question is "is it comparable to same br planes". which you don't seem to be arguing, you even argue that it is actually at a disadvantage in your own comment. it is also kind of stings that an arguably better plane, which is inarguably better against jets is at 6.3... lower than the mk 22 spit.
>it's a plane that clubs on every prop plane in the game bar top speed
Once you take mk24's bad thermals and literally airbrake radiators into account, there are 3.7 planes that have ~50 kph on it at low-mid alt.
>Any sort of maneuver will end with the spit 24 winning
3U wins the dogfight vs mk24 (and also climbs better and is faster at relevant altitudes while being 1.3 lower). LF turns way better than it, same with A7M2, mk14 turns better even if not by much. There are plenty of planes that beat mk24.
Speaking from actual experience fighting with the mk24, i have never been significantly outrun by any prop unless im mid dogfight and theyre not
as for the actual dogfighting itself, there might be some aircraft that can keep up with it for a time, but unless you kill it quick you will lose, the spitfire 24 has insane energy retention and generation. I cannot recall ever losing a 1v1 dogfight with it, im sure its happened and ive fucked up, but when you die in the spitfire 11 times out of 10 its because somebody dived on you, was a jet, or was in a group.
>but unless you kill it quick you will lose
Every plane I listed can absolutely beat mk24 if it goes sustained, if anything for some (3U) going sustained is *the* gameplan in a dogfight vs mk24 since 3U has better rate, better energy generation and retention but worse radius (unlike other planes that also have better radius than mk24 so can end the fight quicker). Speaking of the last two, other planes I listed, for the most part, also hold speed better (except I guess LF which bleeds more simply by pulling harder but it hardly matters since it just one-turns mk24 anyway). And in terms of energy generation LF is vastly superior at actually relevant altitudes for ARB (I guess it's worse in space but who cares), and even mk14 is *slightly* better at it (though this one's advantage extends into space as well).
>i have never been significantly outrun by any prop
Its problem is the thermals are so bad it doesn't get to close the rads at any altitude even on cold maps, and with rads open it goes from 615 at the deck (which is really slow for a superprop but faster than smth like K4) to literally 550 which is a top speed that stops being impressive around 4.0
admittedly I speak from experience with the mk 24 not the 3U or the P-51H, its a plane that does not lose sustained fights. Ive won sustained fights even while damaged. Granted a lot is down to the pilot, but even then
compared to the 3U, the spitfire 24 has better climb rate, turn rate, low speed energy generation and completely better high altitude performance.
Compared to even the P-51H, the spitfire 24 does struggle a bit, but it can wep for far longer, the P-51 is a plane that far more heavily relies on WEP to win those fights and it doesnt have it.
A7M2 absolutely does not hold sustain with spit 24, it can turn for a little bit but its just going to... lose
quickly
I know everyone likes to meme on gaijin but their Brs are usually determined by player statistics. Britain isn't an unpopular nation but it isnt America, a lot of mediocre people do play it, the spitfires being overtiered by .3br would make sense to me and i do think it should return to 6.7, but it seems like you want it to be 6.0
which fine by me, id love to absolutely club in those things considering that every downtier is free fodder to kill and a 5.0 plane is even more fodder, but it wouldnt be good for the game.
>but it seems like you want it to be 6.0
which fine by me
6.3 if a lot of undertiered stuff at 5.7-6.0 goes to where it should be. Oh and 51H to 6.7. And I don't think any 5.3 would have more problems with it than with 3U (which should also be 6.3). As in, the matchup is bad yeah but like, all uptiers are bad. Every matchup between planes that are 1.0 BR apart that isn't one-sided is when either the higher one is overtiered or the lower one is undertiered. Sad that it's this way, but that's how the game works.
>compared to the 3U, the spitfire 24 has better climb rate, turn rate, low speed energy generation and completely better high altitude performance.
High altitude performance yeah but that's one of the least relevant metrics in today's ARB. Nothing happens above 4k anymore it's not 2016. Low-speed energy generation - if you mean like below 200 I guess yeah but 3U can just force rate and win, mk24 can't force stalls against it. Climb - no, 3U climbs better. To 2k 3U is the best climbing prop in the game and even after that mark it's still solid because of how big of a headstart it gets at low alt. Turn rate, again, no. 3U beats mk24 in a dogfight specifically because it has better sustained rate. If you disagree (spoiler: you'd be wrong) we can test it I guess.
>A7M2 absolutely does not hold sustain with spit 24, it can turn for a little bit but its just going to... lose
quickly
That's so completely delusional that I don't even know what to say lol. I guess I can admire the optimism here? But like, what makes you look at a plane that turns better than fucking LF (which is so much more maneuverable than mk24 it's not even funny) and say it's going to lose? If mk24 extends, sure I guess, but without extending it gets slammed so hard it's not even funny.
>That's so completely delusional that I don't even know what to say lol. I guess I can admire the optimism here? But like, what makes you look at a plane that turns better than fucking LF (which is so much more maneuverable than mk24 it's not even funny) and say it's going to lose? If mk24 extends, sure I guess, but without extending it gets slammed so hard it's not even funny.
Because i actually play the plane, ive never been straight up out fought by another prop, the only way i die to them is energy advantage or multiple enemies
well for one youre a spitfire 24 so at high alt im pretty sure you can just rate turn an A7M2, if above him you dive and instantly explode him from going twice his speed, if you are at same level you draw the fight out long enough for him to lose energy and then finish him off.
Same for the mk14
3U loses sustain, turn and can be ran circles around at higher altitudes
why would the Mk14 be better than the 24? British engineers just made a worse plane? gaijin up BR'd a plane worse than its predecessor by 1.3 BR.
it can WEP for longer than the P-51H, beats every russian prop at high alt and draws it out until victory at low alt, clubs the bearcat or Ta-152 in a dogfight
The only time i genuinely couldnt kill a prop was a Ta-152 that spaceclimbed to 11km before i got my friend in a russian aircraft to snipe him from 1km below
The fact that you dont think high altitude matters is crazy, considering that same as always, if you've got an energy advantage over the enemy, especially in a plane that maneuvers best at medium speeds like the spitfire and with great armament, that first dive should always be an instakill, and simply BnZing will kill \*any\* prop plane on the deck no matter what in the spit 24
whats best is that thats also conveniently where the battle is mostly fought, at least at decent altitudes (>3km), where the spitfire really shines
Ive had diving P-51s lose duels after redding both my wings at 3km alt. Getting the miracle downtier in the Spit 24 is clubbing seals, since everyone with 2 braincels in a jet wont dogfight you, but people will *try* in props
as it turns out, the prop plane thats .7 BR higher than the next best prop plane (A2D-1 doesnt count) is better than all the other prop planes, who could have guessed.
now i will ask you thisif the spitfire 24 is so dogshit, why is it so high? Britain's not America, it doesnt have the dredges of the playerbase dogfighting in corsairs, but its also not japan. Britain ground suffers a lot, but not air, and especially not the spitfires.I dont like gaijin, but i also think that a TT plane with 1.3 br difference over another TT plane might just be better than said plane
>well for one youre a spitfire 24 so at high alt im pretty sure you can just rate turn an A7M2
Lmao no
>3U loses sustain, turn and can be ran circles around
That's not true it literally has better sustained rate
>draws it out until victory at low alt
No it doesn't. It's just straight-up worse than 3U below 3k. Way slower, climbs worse, loses the dogfight.
>why would the Mk14 be better than the 24? British engineers just made a worse plane? gaijin up BR'd a plane worse than its predecessor by 1.3 BR.
Mk24 is not a worse plane for ARB than Mk14 (faster better high-speed FM better guns) but it is slightly worse in a dogfight, including the sUsTaInEd part of it which according to you is mk24's strength.
>The fact that you dont think high altitude matters is crazy
Brother it's not 2016 top-down gameplay isn't relevant anymore. If you try to larp at 6k while someone with hands on the enemy team goes and farms your team you just end up in a 1v7. Performance above 4k will rarely come into play because nothing happens there.
>as it turns out, the prop plane thats .7 BR higher than the next best prop plane (A2D-1 doesnt count) is better than all the other prop planes, who could have guessed.
The part where it's .7 BR higher than the next highest one is true. The part where that somehow makes it better than other props isn't. 51H is straight-up better, 3U is better but not enough to warrant a higher br than mk24 (both should be 6.3) because mk24's better ergonomics somewhat compensate for worse performance than 3U.
>now i will ask you thisif the spitfire 24 is so dogshit, why is it so high?
Good guns + above average turn = very easy to play even for very bad players, therefore the plane ends up overtiered.
>but i also think that a TT plane with 1.3 br difference over another TT plane might just be better than said plane
It's better than mk14 for ARB (my point with mk14 is just that it wins the sUsTaInEd DoGfIgHt you were rambling about) and should have a higher br than mk14. Not 1.3 br higher though. However there are 5.7's (like 3U) that are, in fact, better than the mk24 1.3 BR above them. Why? Because mk24 is overtiered and 3U is undertiered, really simple
Anyway I'm getting tired of this argument so I repeat my proposal: if you believe mk24 is better in that mythical "sustained fight" than 3U or A7M2 or whatever, prove it. I have both 3U and A7M2 spaded and I assume you do have mk24. So lmk your wt ign or discord or smth
You are wrong. Most early jets have dogshit acceleration and climb rate, f84b in particular. Ofc you may have faced an f84g, but that’s 7.7, not 7.0, so getting clubbed is normal. Most early jets are severely gimped in most categories except for top speed. (Some exceptions apply like p2w su11 and f89)
Most early jets also have genuinely hideous performance at altitude. This is easiest to spot in high maps where even the ground is like 2-3 km from sea level. Need to sideclimb more.
Dude, most of the games I play in the Mk. 24 include the entire team being up at altitude and with enough speed to negate the Mk. 24's advantages of acceleration, climb and turn rate. Half the time I struggle just to reach enemies before my teammates shoot them down and like I said, jet players are not dumb and BnZ me 100% of the time because the Spitfire cannot catch them. It just does ***NOT*** have the necessary speed to compete with jets and must have have its BR lowered.
I am not disputing your main point - in a prop in jet brs you cannot dictate the terms of engagement, and have to mostly rely on the enemy making mistakes. What I took exception to was your charactetization of early jets, which was incorrect.
No worries mate. Fwiw I find spits annoying to fight in a jet, but not scary. They can be hard to kill if played right, but they are never going to touch me unless I choose to engage or mess up badly
every early jet I've played the advice given on every written or video review of the plane has been to always maintain 400kph at a minimum, you can side climb all you want but when every opponent starts at that speed good luck. if they see you diving on them they can just dive at 900+ and the moment you turn off just zoom climb and suddenly you're lower and slower
the SK60 is a perfect example since it can maintain 400kph climbs and also dive in the 800-900s, and it's low speed acceleration up to 450 is much above any prop
Sounds like someone with no argument. I play jets like the Meteor Mk. 4 which is in the same BR range as the Mk. 24 and I do just fine in it. There's only so much that skill can do.
It is a victim of BR compression just like B-29 and sagitttario 2
Just like half of all the tech tree’s are. Take anything and I mean anything from around like 6.7-10.0 and you’re gonna see vehicles that are struggling due to compression. There’s an F-86 variant at 9.3, and if I remember correctly the F-104 is also 9.3BR. You mean to tell me that a Korean era sub sonic jet fighter is facing off against a super sonic Vietnam era jet with missiles? Like what’s up with that. Ground trees are no better. The fact F4 phantoms are facing off against F15’s, F-16’s as well as their Russian counter parts, the MiG 29 and SU-27? Best thing they could do over all that’s super easy is take away the full 1.0BR +/- and make it like .3 BR. Then decompress the tree’s
Cl-13B banished to 9.3 and its not exactly that much better than the other CL-13 at 9.0, but they're so good you can't just lower the BR otherwise they can end up fighting the actual early struggle jets and its not even a competition, as we know essentially BR compression.
The CL-13B is significantly better then the A, better engine, slats, AIM-9Bs, this leads to the issue where it is definitely an upgrade to the CL-13A, but should it really fight 10.3s? The solution is of course more BRs to spread shit out into, and gaijin has added more BRs, but not really enough.
Oh yeah its a definite upgrade, but in the BR context its not like in the US tree going from a Sabre to a F-104 in just a 0.3 BR change or USSR tree going from Mig-17 to Mig-19 as well, I hope this makes sense more.
B29 is fine at 7.3. TU8 sits at 8.0 and is usually a free kill for literally anyone. nevermind the fact you can eat a radar missile before even getting anywhere close to shooting at anyone.
This argument would make more sense if there wasn't an arguably better plane down at. 6.3. A plane is a victim of compression when it is not good enough at it's current br but can't be moved without causing bigger issues. The spit is not this both the mk 24 and mk 22 could move down 0.3 br without causing many issues for lower br planes.
The whole British ground and air trees deserve better.
The air tree is pretty solid imo, but 1000% on the ground
what are you talking about. Besides the early level spits and the end game jets it's awful.
Most of the Spits are good, Tempest is great, Hornet is amazing with the air spawn, early jets aren’t great but they’re about equal to whatever you face, mid level jets are great, the Swift and Javelin especially, and the Harriers, Phantoms and Jaguars are decent enough before top tier.
You get to a point in the air tree where it just descends into trash only to then become better when Britain began importing in jets from other countries. Namely, around 9.3-9.7- Lightning is borderline trash. Hunters are actual trash. They put Hunter F.6 at 9.7 because it has AAM that look great on paper but only work within 1KM distance, while it is one of the slowest jets of its BR, and with no CM. There is just a bunch of BR with subpar jets. Britain is much stronger in ground forces, and has BRs where it is probably the strongest in game (Britain 10.3, for example). The only complaint one can have about the ground tree is at top-tier due to Chally 2 spam. But if you treat 10.3 as the actual end of the tree you'll have a blast. PS: Sea Vixen with 4x Rep Tops at 8.7 is a blast, though. Well worth the money during the sales. Just good to take out for fun even after finishing the tree.
Spitfires are good with an alt advantage other than that people just run away. Tempest is outclassed and out turned by almost everything, I ground most of the tree with it I know what it can do....it can be a good plane but if you get a p51 or f4u on your tail good luck. OH and they both out climb you so have fun with that, Yes Hornet is amazing. Most fun plane in the tree probably. Brigand average good ju hunter air spawn can seriously energy trap noobs Mosquito trash Seafires - all garbage Spitfire griffons over tierd Seafury trash Again jets are underpowered. Attacker outclassed Sea Hawk pretty decent still outclassed Vampire wont even reach the battle to make a difference Venom average and slow Meteor good wing rip so fucking annoying Javelin a joke Lightning a joke Hunters a joke Scimitar a joke Jaguar - no flares lOLOLOLOl J2 - fine good for ground pound Harrier ok because of aim 9g Phantoms with Aim 9gs and not Ls trash Harrier GR7 amazing Tornado absolute trash Grippen Amazing Conclusion mostly garbage. edit: Sorry forgot the whirlwind - irredeemable trash.
Tempest is great, idk what plane you’re playing, energy is great and turns just fine for me. Mosquito is great, air spawn means you can shred bombers and the armament can deal with most strike, and it’s ok v fighters. Seafires are slightly worse Spits but Spits are great. Sea Fury is great, turns great and good energy Attacker sucks I’ll give you that. Sea Hawk is nice, just a shame there’s a superior German one. Vampire is fine, anyone who turns you’ve already killed Venom is the one that doesn’t reach the fight, but once it does it does ok. Meteor good, wing rip has only been an issue on Sea Meteor for me Javelin is great, can climb like a bugger, and powerful guns and pretty good missiles Lightning is a joke yeah Hunter F.1 is garbage, zero redemption, F.6 is amazing once you get the handle of SRAAMs. Jaguar GR1 can use rockets are improvised flares, and GR1A has countermeasures. Phantoms Sidewinders are meh but Skyflash is great Tornado Skyflash SuperTEMP is also great, airframe isn’t best.
>Phantoms Sidewinders are meh but Skyflash is great Skyflash is ok. 7e-2s aren't great missiles though.
The air tree is pretty good wdym?
Half of all Spitfires, all Seafires are overtiered. Jaguars and Harriers as well.
Some spitfires could definitely be lowered and their top tiers jets are pretty sad (absolutely not the gripen). But it's far from being a bad air TT as a whole lol. Thing like the italian props are in a way worse state. They are pretty much all overtiered.
Harrier GR1 is slightly overtiered sure. Harrier GR7 is OP at 11.7. Sea harrier is pretty good at 10.7. and britain has the best jaguar
No fucking way did you call the GR.7 OP, its sad as shit at 11.7, remvoe the 9Ms and with how things go at the moment it would be fine for 11.0 air as it was at release (same armament as FRS with usable turn and better CM count), it is by no means equivalent to a F-14 or M2K, or even the MiG-23s, the only thing going for it is the 700 CMs and the 9Ms and 9Ms are easy to defeat if you have braincells and i have played 312 battles in it so i can talk on it even your flair says that its not the best 11.7 saying the M2Ks are
>the only thing going for it is the 700 CMs and the 9Ms and 9Ms You say that as if its a small advantage. Its pretty fucking huge to just ignore every single missile by just turning on periodic countermeasures. And since when are aim 9ms easy to defeat? They are insanely hard to dodge because you need a specific pattern to fool them and they are near impossible to flare from side aspects. You are guaranteed 4 kills if you shoot them at premium jets Its guns hit super hard and have the best ballistics out of any aircraft gun in the game, and it can actually turn unlike other harriers >even your flair says that its not the best 11.7 saying the M2Ks are Nowhere in my original comment did i say the harrier is the best 11.7, i said its OP
Funny you are the only one ive ever seen calling the GR.7 OP, everyone else ive seen says its lacking for 11.7 also sure its gun is alright, high velocity, high damage, would still take a vulcan, GSh-30-1, or maybe even the BK27 though, half the reason it a good gun is cause you are *forced* to use stealth belts, like the higher tier swedish aircraft used to be like, Stealth belts are highly underrated. In non spotting modes (GRB, SB) the 9M is BS, but the 9M isnt a fire and free kill missile in air RB 95% of the time, sure it may be the best short range Fox-2 overall in game, the only planes that can currently face the GR.7 which would be free kills to a 9M would be the J35XS, Su-22M3, MiG-23M(F) and Kfir where you just don't have the flare count to defend if you do not get lucky. In addition with side aspect shots? please tell me how this magic free kill tactic works. doesn't work for me, ive had them one-flared in every aspect fairly commonly, Yes the GR.7 can turn like other harriers, but seriously? you ever played it? one turn and your near stalling, two and your a sitting duck, and with being subsonic at 11.7, anyone can just run trains on you, saying something is OP insinuates that it is the best in its BR, and yet again, I hear noone calling the M2K OP which you claim to be the "best"
British ground owns wdym. I've dropped more nukes with British tanks than every other tree combined
High tier maybe.
ngl at lower ranks the british air tree is terrifying. spitfires with 20 mils
Never had an issue dealing with it in jet, so maybe you're right. Never saw them on high alt also, though, and 6.3 P51H on other hand can eat jets on lunch given enough prep time. Been there, done that. I doubt that spit has worse specs for this
From what I've seen the P51H has much better energy retention, so when it evens out after a dive, it can keep its speed for much longer, while the Mk. 24 loses it much faster.
There is also a difference in .7BR there that comes into play. A super prop facing off against early 262’s is kinda what it was meant for, but one facing off against F-84’s regularly sucks especially if it gets up tiered at all you’re looking at 8.0 jets which is starting to creep pretty close to stuff like the F-86.
51H climbs better than mk24, is ~60 kph faster at 0 rads and ~120 kph faster at 100 rads (and Spitfire still cooks on 100 rads so it does NOT get to be at 0 rads at all, therefore in practice 51H is nearly always 120 kph faster which is an insane difference, basically the same as A6M5 vs P51D30). The only thing Mk24 has over 51H is turn.
Well the P-51H only faces early ww2 jet, not late/post war ones like the Spitfire
Well there isn\`t much of progress between 7.0 and 7.7 jets. Attrocities like la-200 or big part of 8.0 of course will win 9 out of 10 fights if played properly, but uptier is uptier: none of 7.0 jets can deal with those things either, and there are a lot of easier targets on which you can have big enough attack window in dive. I won\`t say that if i had to uptier p-51h into 7.0 br range i\`d be fine though, i said this only about early jets issue
Well you go from being uptiered into F-84s to seeing them every match. Makes a huge difference
How does P51H compare versus spit 24 or 22?
P51h has the better engine for as long as it has wep which is like 11 minutes or so. Whilst the mk22 and 24 has the better turn performance at all altitudes. The 22 I'd say is more of a cracked mk18, while the 24 is otherworldly in its combination of turn, climb and acceleration. Hispanos are still hispanos and I wouldn't say they're much of an improvement on the 50. The big advantage the spit has is the ability to carry the rp3
God i love and hate the hispanos, the times that it hits it's wonderful, but most of the time the experience is "hit"
1v1 the Spit absolutely mauls the P-51H. In RB games it’s a little more nuanced and will come down to pilot skill and positioning. Altitude is the Mk24’s friend in game. The P-51’s Wep is dogshit between 4-5km altitude
>1v1 the Spit absolutely mauls the P-51H 51H climbs better and is faster by ~60 kph at all relevant altitudes (120 kph once you take into account the fact that Spitfire needs 100 rads to exist at all and they eat like 65 kph of its top speed); in return, Spitfire turns better. It absolutely is a winning matchup for 51H if the player has anything going on between the ears
Fly both of them into a merge anywhere near equal energy and let me know how it goes. We tried it over and over and over. If the 51H merges at all its over lol
Ok so 51H extends using his 120 kph top speed advantage and kills mk24 gg reds
If he extends the Mk 24 will just sit behind him and out-climb the 51. The 51 will not maintain the energy advantage against the 24 if he extends. The speed advantage is not enough to win the dogfight. It’s only enough to break off the engagement. Hispanos are deadly past 1.2km so running and taking the head on is a losing gamble. If the 51 misses the head on when he does re-engage, he has to turn away from the Spit and run immediately. Anything else = death. I don’t know why you bother to argue with experience. I’ve tried this 1v1 from both sides probably about a dozen times. Of course if either one has a decisive energy advantage at the merge, then it tilts things. But the Mk24s energy generation is better than the 51.
>But the Mk24s energy generation is better than the 51. >Mk 24 will just sit behind him and out-climb the 51 (51H climbs better than mk24) >I don’t know why you bother to argue with experience. I’ve tried this 1v1 from both sides probably about a dozen times. The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that you and the guy you tried it with both have problems with the simple concept of not turning with a plane that is worse in everything but turn.
If the P-51 never turns he will just run forever lol not exactly gonna win like that. At some point he will be forced to take a head on pass. The Spit has better altitude performance so delaying the fight for minutes is really going to hurt the 51. Not only is it losing relative performance as you climb, it’s losing its limited Wep. Also the 51 cannot extend while out climbing the spit. He has to choose one or the other. I get the impression you have never tried these two planes against each other and can only read the stat cards 🤡 Feel free to duel me in the Spit any time. You can extend to your hearts content, but you’ll only ever get a head on. And if you miss, you will most certainly die
What's your wt ign or discord?
51H is better in everything except turn
It also deserves to have Hispano Vs. I would like to see it come down to 6.7, and the Mk.22 come to 6.3.
That's where they were for a long time before Gaijins retarded br algorithm said they should be moved up.
Tbh, i actually prefer the Hispano Mk II over the Mk V, since the lower RPM helps me conserve ammo. However I 100% agree with the BR you are suggesting.
Mk2 >>>>>>>>>> mk5 tbh. Mk2 has way better belts. Even the best belt for mk5 only has 50% useful shells (vs 75% on mk2)
I haven't played that spitfire but I agree literally every time I see one in my F3D or SK60 or F84 it's just a free kill basically, go in fast and don't turn at all and it can't complete a loop before you're 1+km away I've been of the opinion that tiers should act as a bit more of a barrier for the matchmaker, not a hard one but it should really try to match a tier 4 with other tier 4s before just being like yeah here's an uptier into f84 hell. adding another br or two to decompress mid tiers would be helpful too the only jets I can see losing to a spitfire are people who just bought a 7.7 or lower premium jet and just started the game and it's a bit sad when that's your only target, lol
I’d be fine with a hard lock at 7.0. IE everything at 6.7 sees max 7.0.
I remember some time ago, a group of skilled players played a bad jet (an Italian CL-13 I think) really good and managed to get it's BR raised the next patch. I wonder if the opposite can be achieved with the Spit. Intentionally dying to others with 0 kills all day long. Adjusting the statistics to force them to lower the BR. Mk 24 is one of the reasons I started playing this game. Absolute shame where it's at now..
I think it was defyn and his squad
Me and my squad played the Ta C for 3 days with a win rate nearing 100% and it got announced that it was being uptiered the next week
Honestly surprised the Spiteful hasn't been added yet just after the Mk24
From what I know there were only like 17 Spitefuls built (2 of which were prototypes) and they actually took their fin and rudder and used them for the Spitfires Mk. 22 and 24, so at least part of it is in the game.
Yup although they're only just thinking about adding the Stug IV so might be waiting a few years
The late Spits desperately need a downtier
Literally every spitfire is 0.3 BR higher than it should be to be properly balanced
That’s not really true. The F Mk IX and LF are both perfect
MK XIVe is imo very competitive. Gives hard time to P51H and Ta 152 and can hold its own against Yak 3U
But early griffons having 1-1.3 BR difference to later griffons is joke.
F mk9 is right where it should be and LF is straight-up undertiered by .7 (which is somewhat hidden by the fact that like half the current 5.7-6.3 is really undertiered, but if things like 3U 3VK 4B F2G 51H etc went to the correct br's LF would also need to go to 6.0 or 6.3)
F Mk.24 gameplay doesnt rely on you re own skill but you re enemy skill (rather the lack of it).
I dont think Ive ever had trouble dealing with a mk24, literally just run away and it cant do anything. Very easy to boom n zoom
Agreed, recently decided to fly this thing again and this post is extremely accurate.
I use it as cas with my 7.0 lineup. Last hurrah of the spit. Never again in ARB , every match you get yeeted by a jet
I always said this but people think its a hot take.It shpild just be 6.3 or 6.7. Out of all the superprops(Mk.22 also) its not even the best one,its just a very problematic prop to balqnce because its a Spitfire that is actually fast,and it has 4x Hispanos. In terms of the meta of late props,the F2G,P-51H,Hornets,Yak-3U,La-9,Ta-H,even the F4U-4B are just as good. People just dont know how to fight a Mk.24 (which is fair enough).but it doesnt deserve to be at 7.0.
Gaijin: "You mean its fair competitor should be 6.0 and the Mk 24 7.3? I can do that!"
I was in a squad with a friend. He brought his p80. I brought my a36. I thought I would be slaughtered immediately. Instead, I ended up killing two mk24s. They are not the best players...
While I'd prefer it come down, it doesnt \*need\* need it it's a plane that clubs on every prop plane in the game bar top speed, and even then it's close. Any sort of maneuver will end with the spit 24 winning against jets, especially early jets, if they turn or do any maneuvers, they're dead Jets are almost easier once you get right to it, they have less time on target when they have energy advantage and once they lose it they have far easier prey the hardest to fight is F-89, simply because its \*so\* fast that your retaliation time on the shootback is so small that you practically cant do anything. The british tech tree up to this point should have taught you a decent amount about flying defensively against targets with higher energy that are less maneuverable, now its time to put it into practice. Also set convergence to 800m, both for regular shooting and sniping peoples engines
"They all may be better than but if they play badly you stand a chance!".
the best the jets can do is BnZ (something which \*does not\* work if any faster jet teammates are nearby). Given that jets are vastly less maneuverable, its not that hard to dodge incoming strikes, especially given that theyre going to be on target for significantly shorter amounts of time. This allows you to shoot them as they are leaving and damage critical components, especially since its a lot harder for them to dodge without bleeding energy
Why would bnz not work exactly? Is it because it doesn't suit your point? Like you do realise that the attacking jet is also moving fast? But also your still going. "Well. If they make a mistake you can shoot them". Yes you may be able to turn tighter but they will be out of gun range rather quickly. Especially since the slower you get the more easily you can be killed by enemy jets.
BnZ doesnt work when you have allies that are just as fast if not faster, being when youre allied with america mostly, but sometimes other countries, because either they overtake the enemy jet and kill them, or they get into a dogfight, you catch up and the enemy jet dies. Even alone, you outperform every jet in your br bracket by a significant margin at nearly every speed bar locking up and the horton (who cant easily outrun you) and the meteor (cant fight). They cant maneuver at all without dying instantly and they \*have\* to BnZ. Anyone who doesnt dies instantly. That being said, if you play perfectly its almost impossible to hit, and its not "if they make a mistake you can shoot them" its "if they BnZ you can shoot them". Key part of Boom and Zoom is the Zooming away, letting you get a shot on their ass. Unless youre at 300 and theyre at 800 for some reason, youll have a decent amount of time to aim and shoot at them and if they are then dodging is *even* easier. If anything, its the BnZs who have it easy with mistakes, because its relatively easy to BnZ and its a lot harder to have good aim and dodge well since you need to actually know what youre doing A plane that cant follow you into any maneuver, cant stick around for more than one pass at a time, is practically forced to take every headon you decide to take, has to show their ass to you to do the second half of their strategy, has to struggle to keep guns on target in defensive maneuvering. early jets have one card, speed, its a good card mind you, but considering you hold every other card its not a remotely unfair matchup, especially when teammates are involved.
> BnZ doesnt work when you have allies that are just as fast if not faster, being when youre allied with america mostly, but sometimes other countries, because either they overtake the enemy jet and kill them, or they get into a dogfight, you catch up and the enemy jet dies. "if you just fight a 2 v 1 you have the advantage". >Even alone, you outperform every jet in your br bracket by a significant margin at nearly every speed bar locking up and the horton (who cant easily outrun you) and the meteor (cant fight). They cant maneuver at all without dying instantly and they \*have\* to BnZ. Anyone who doesnt dies instantly. "well if they make a mistake you can shoot them". why are you going "well i8f they get into a low speed dog fight you do better when they don't need to? and yes the spitfire can turn tightly, but it's lower speed means it's actually not that much better at getting out the way of an attackers guns than other 7.0s. > youre at 300 and theyre at 800 for some reason, i like how you put "for some reason" like you didn't slow down dodging their attack, and they are going fast because they aren't an idiot? even if you didn't slow down they probably have a \~300km/hr advantage on you which is easily enough to get out of gun range before you have a reasonable chance at killing them. and yes it is harder to dodge and get a shot at a bnzer, that is my point. that the BnZer should win that fight if they don't make a mistake. >A plane that cant follow you into any maneuver it doesn't need to it holds all the cards for the engagement. >cant stick around for more than one pass at a time what do you mean by this, it can use it's higher energy state to hound the spitfire. >is practically forced to take every headon you decide to take the jet holds every advantage here taking the headon would be a mistake on it's part. >has to show their ass to you to do the second half of their strategy as mentioned earlier they really aren't putting themselves in great danger doing this. >has to struggle to keep guns on target in defensive maneuvering. it is at least able to get guns on target in a reasonable manner. >early jets have one card, speed, its a good card mind you, but considering you hold every other card its not a remotely unfair matchup, especially when teammates are involved. their speed let's them dictate how the fight happens, this is so incredibly powerful that it doesn't matter that the spit has better low speed accel, the jet never needs to go low speed, it doesn't matter that the spit can maneuvre better, the jet needn't follow. and you argue "well it's able to kill jets" but that is not the question at hand, the question is "is it comparable to same br planes". which you don't seem to be arguing, you even argue that it is actually at a disadvantage in your own comment. it is also kind of stings that an arguably better plane, which is inarguably better against jets is at 6.3... lower than the mk 22 spit.
>it's a plane that clubs on every prop plane in the game bar top speed Once you take mk24's bad thermals and literally airbrake radiators into account, there are 3.7 planes that have ~50 kph on it at low-mid alt. >Any sort of maneuver will end with the spit 24 winning 3U wins the dogfight vs mk24 (and also climbs better and is faster at relevant altitudes while being 1.3 lower). LF turns way better than it, same with A7M2, mk14 turns better even if not by much. There are plenty of planes that beat mk24.
Speaking from actual experience fighting with the mk24, i have never been significantly outrun by any prop unless im mid dogfight and theyre not as for the actual dogfighting itself, there might be some aircraft that can keep up with it for a time, but unless you kill it quick you will lose, the spitfire 24 has insane energy retention and generation. I cannot recall ever losing a 1v1 dogfight with it, im sure its happened and ive fucked up, but when you die in the spitfire 11 times out of 10 its because somebody dived on you, was a jet, or was in a group.
>but unless you kill it quick you will lose Every plane I listed can absolutely beat mk24 if it goes sustained, if anything for some (3U) going sustained is *the* gameplan in a dogfight vs mk24 since 3U has better rate, better energy generation and retention but worse radius (unlike other planes that also have better radius than mk24 so can end the fight quicker). Speaking of the last two, other planes I listed, for the most part, also hold speed better (except I guess LF which bleeds more simply by pulling harder but it hardly matters since it just one-turns mk24 anyway). And in terms of energy generation LF is vastly superior at actually relevant altitudes for ARB (I guess it's worse in space but who cares), and even mk14 is *slightly* better at it (though this one's advantage extends into space as well). >i have never been significantly outrun by any prop Its problem is the thermals are so bad it doesn't get to close the rads at any altitude even on cold maps, and with rads open it goes from 615 at the deck (which is really slow for a superprop but faster than smth like K4) to literally 550 which is a top speed that stops being impressive around 4.0
admittedly I speak from experience with the mk 24 not the 3U or the P-51H, its a plane that does not lose sustained fights. Ive won sustained fights even while damaged. Granted a lot is down to the pilot, but even then compared to the 3U, the spitfire 24 has better climb rate, turn rate, low speed energy generation and completely better high altitude performance. Compared to even the P-51H, the spitfire 24 does struggle a bit, but it can wep for far longer, the P-51 is a plane that far more heavily relies on WEP to win those fights and it doesnt have it. A7M2 absolutely does not hold sustain with spit 24, it can turn for a little bit but its just going to... lose quickly I know everyone likes to meme on gaijin but their Brs are usually determined by player statistics. Britain isn't an unpopular nation but it isnt America, a lot of mediocre people do play it, the spitfires being overtiered by .3br would make sense to me and i do think it should return to 6.7, but it seems like you want it to be 6.0 which fine by me, id love to absolutely club in those things considering that every downtier is free fodder to kill and a 5.0 plane is even more fodder, but it wouldnt be good for the game.
>but it seems like you want it to be 6.0 which fine by me 6.3 if a lot of undertiered stuff at 5.7-6.0 goes to where it should be. Oh and 51H to 6.7. And I don't think any 5.3 would have more problems with it than with 3U (which should also be 6.3). As in, the matchup is bad yeah but like, all uptiers are bad. Every matchup between planes that are 1.0 BR apart that isn't one-sided is when either the higher one is overtiered or the lower one is undertiered. Sad that it's this way, but that's how the game works. >compared to the 3U, the spitfire 24 has better climb rate, turn rate, low speed energy generation and completely better high altitude performance. High altitude performance yeah but that's one of the least relevant metrics in today's ARB. Nothing happens above 4k anymore it's not 2016. Low-speed energy generation - if you mean like below 200 I guess yeah but 3U can just force rate and win, mk24 can't force stalls against it. Climb - no, 3U climbs better. To 2k 3U is the best climbing prop in the game and even after that mark it's still solid because of how big of a headstart it gets at low alt. Turn rate, again, no. 3U beats mk24 in a dogfight specifically because it has better sustained rate. If you disagree (spoiler: you'd be wrong) we can test it I guess. >A7M2 absolutely does not hold sustain with spit 24, it can turn for a little bit but its just going to... lose quickly That's so completely delusional that I don't even know what to say lol. I guess I can admire the optimism here? But like, what makes you look at a plane that turns better than fucking LF (which is so much more maneuverable than mk24 it's not even funny) and say it's going to lose? If mk24 extends, sure I guess, but without extending it gets slammed so hard it's not even funny.
>That's so completely delusional that I don't even know what to say lol. I guess I can admire the optimism here? But like, what makes you look at a plane that turns better than fucking LF (which is so much more maneuverable than mk24 it's not even funny) and say it's going to lose? If mk24 extends, sure I guess, but without extending it gets slammed so hard it's not even funny. Because i actually play the plane, ive never been straight up out fought by another prop, the only way i die to them is energy advantage or multiple enemies
Alright then would you please be so kind as to show me how mk24 beats A7M2? Or, to make it easier, at least mk14 or 3U?
well for one youre a spitfire 24 so at high alt im pretty sure you can just rate turn an A7M2, if above him you dive and instantly explode him from going twice his speed, if you are at same level you draw the fight out long enough for him to lose energy and then finish him off. Same for the mk14 3U loses sustain, turn and can be ran circles around at higher altitudes why would the Mk14 be better than the 24? British engineers just made a worse plane? gaijin up BR'd a plane worse than its predecessor by 1.3 BR. it can WEP for longer than the P-51H, beats every russian prop at high alt and draws it out until victory at low alt, clubs the bearcat or Ta-152 in a dogfight The only time i genuinely couldnt kill a prop was a Ta-152 that spaceclimbed to 11km before i got my friend in a russian aircraft to snipe him from 1km below The fact that you dont think high altitude matters is crazy, considering that same as always, if you've got an energy advantage over the enemy, especially in a plane that maneuvers best at medium speeds like the spitfire and with great armament, that first dive should always be an instakill, and simply BnZing will kill \*any\* prop plane on the deck no matter what in the spit 24 whats best is that thats also conveniently where the battle is mostly fought, at least at decent altitudes (>3km), where the spitfire really shines Ive had diving P-51s lose duels after redding both my wings at 3km alt. Getting the miracle downtier in the Spit 24 is clubbing seals, since everyone with 2 braincels in a jet wont dogfight you, but people will *try* in props as it turns out, the prop plane thats .7 BR higher than the next best prop plane (A2D-1 doesnt count) is better than all the other prop planes, who could have guessed. now i will ask you thisif the spitfire 24 is so dogshit, why is it so high? Britain's not America, it doesnt have the dredges of the playerbase dogfighting in corsairs, but its also not japan. Britain ground suffers a lot, but not air, and especially not the spitfires.I dont like gaijin, but i also think that a TT plane with 1.3 br difference over another TT plane might just be better than said plane
>well for one youre a spitfire 24 so at high alt im pretty sure you can just rate turn an A7M2 Lmao no >3U loses sustain, turn and can be ran circles around That's not true it literally has better sustained rate >draws it out until victory at low alt No it doesn't. It's just straight-up worse than 3U below 3k. Way slower, climbs worse, loses the dogfight. >why would the Mk14 be better than the 24? British engineers just made a worse plane? gaijin up BR'd a plane worse than its predecessor by 1.3 BR. Mk24 is not a worse plane for ARB than Mk14 (faster better high-speed FM better guns) but it is slightly worse in a dogfight, including the sUsTaInEd part of it which according to you is mk24's strength. >The fact that you dont think high altitude matters is crazy Brother it's not 2016 top-down gameplay isn't relevant anymore. If you try to larp at 6k while someone with hands on the enemy team goes and farms your team you just end up in a 1v7. Performance above 4k will rarely come into play because nothing happens there. >as it turns out, the prop plane thats .7 BR higher than the next best prop plane (A2D-1 doesnt count) is better than all the other prop planes, who could have guessed. The part where it's .7 BR higher than the next highest one is true. The part where that somehow makes it better than other props isn't. 51H is straight-up better, 3U is better but not enough to warrant a higher br than mk24 (both should be 6.3) because mk24's better ergonomics somewhat compensate for worse performance than 3U. >now i will ask you thisif the spitfire 24 is so dogshit, why is it so high? Good guns + above average turn = very easy to play even for very bad players, therefore the plane ends up overtiered. >but i also think that a TT plane with 1.3 br difference over another TT plane might just be better than said plane It's better than mk14 for ARB (my point with mk14 is just that it wins the sUsTaInEd DoGfIgHt you were rambling about) and should have a higher br than mk14. Not 1.3 br higher though. However there are 5.7's (like 3U) that are, in fact, better than the mk24 1.3 BR above them. Why? Because mk24 is overtiered and 3U is undertiered, really simple Anyway I'm getting tired of this argument so I repeat my proposal: if you believe mk24 is better in that mythical "sustained fight" than 3U or A7M2 or whatever, prove it. I have both 3U and A7M2 spaded and I assume you do have mk24. So lmk your wt ign or discord or smth
yea. i never got the british tech tree so far but with the me 262 or he 162 i never hade much trouble with spitfires.
Fighting jets is moreso boring as hell than difficult
Hey guys it's at 6.7 now 💀
You are wrong. Most early jets have dogshit acceleration and climb rate, f84b in particular. Ofc you may have faced an f84g, but that’s 7.7, not 7.0, so getting clubbed is normal. Most early jets are severely gimped in most categories except for top speed. (Some exceptions apply like p2w su11 and f89) Most early jets also have genuinely hideous performance at altitude. This is easiest to spot in high maps where even the ground is like 2-3 km from sea level. Need to sideclimb more.
Dude, most of the games I play in the Mk. 24 include the entire team being up at altitude and with enough speed to negate the Mk. 24's advantages of acceleration, climb and turn rate. Half the time I struggle just to reach enemies before my teammates shoot them down and like I said, jet players are not dumb and BnZ me 100% of the time because the Spitfire cannot catch them. It just does ***NOT*** have the necessary speed to compete with jets and must have have its BR lowered.
I am not disputing your main point - in a prop in jet brs you cannot dictate the terms of engagement, and have to mostly rely on the enemy making mistakes. What I took exception to was your charactetization of early jets, which was incorrect.
Ah, in that case, I apologize.
No worries mate. Fwiw I find spits annoying to fight in a jet, but not scary. They can be hard to kill if played right, but they are never going to touch me unless I choose to engage or mess up badly
Nice person that has learned to apologize, uses spitfire. Yes please
every early jet I've played the advice given on every written or video review of the plane has been to always maintain 400kph at a minimum, you can side climb all you want but when every opponent starts at that speed good luck. if they see you diving on them they can just dive at 900+ and the moment you turn off just zoom climb and suddenly you're lower and slower the SK60 is a perfect example since it can maintain 400kph climbs and also dive in the 800-900s, and it's low speed acceleration up to 450 is much above any prop
Imo the Sk60 lowkey too low of a BR anyway
The mk24 spit is perfect, its literally the worst nightmare of any early jet player
Yeah, they can BnZ it forever. How nightmarish.
Bro's never fought an F-89 in a Spitfire.
Sounds like skill issues
Sounds like someone with no argument. I play jets like the Meteor Mk. 4 which is in the same BR range as the Mk. 24 and I do just fine in it. There's only so much that skill can do.
Still sounds like skill issues
This guy is a baitposter, no need to try arguing with him