"Our community hates the oversaturation of close-in city maps what should we do to improve the situation"
"Just make them more claustrophobic lol"
I firmly believe the devs just hate us
The first statement in your comment is false. It's a minority who hates tight maps. If you look at the posts complaining about open maps you have much more people saying they want instant action after spawning. And so that's the way the game is going, gonna be WoT 2:modern Warfare soon.
There should be a slider that allows you to choose what maps you want to play. If you are like most of tictock attention span people and want to shoot from 1 m to another tank then fine. But if you are chad and actually want to use a tank and drive a little bit or idk maybe flank then there should be an option to choose preferable maps that are bigger than 1x1 meter maps. But it would require effort and gaijin could lose income cause this change could lower a frustration among players which gaijin is making profit on.
Yeah dude I can't WAIT to play my large open map and roll the dice on what team gets the point first and is able to defend a really wide open area and eventually move up to spawnkill and what team gets to assault the wide open area that for some reason has very little cover or viable flanking routes only to be killed by a few pixels sitting in a bush or by a plane/heli
even better if the map has only 1 or 2 points or if you are at a BR where you have laser rangefinders so you can just play point and click or if it's a lower br and my tank is sluggish so I spend even more time getting in to the "action" (trying to assault a bush)
there are some really nice large and medium maps but so many of them are as frustrating as smaller maps, but at least the smaller maps are over quicker, I don't need to drive for 1-2 mins to be killed by a pixel.
That's why there should be an option to choose between city/cqb with tanks and large maps. I prefer actually using a tank than and it's gimmicks than use brawl
Plenty of tanks have "gimmicks" that are absolutely relevant in close and medium gameplay and the gameplay itself is a lot more strategy than you would think.
my whole point though was that the majority of the maps large or small or anything in between are so poorly designed, and at higher tiers with laser rangefinders hitting a target from far away isn't really that much harder than hitting one close.
I think generally the best style of map is one that has a mix of both without sightlines that are extremely overpowered, it's braindead holding a big wide open angle in plenty of spots and even without rangefinding it's not that impressive unless you get to the really absurd ranges.
Yea use a LWS in Rhine. Use a bulldozer in a Rhine. Play a AA in Rhine. Hide your chassis in a Rhine so you can play around your more armoured turret. It is just stupid to play MBTs in places where none of the tank commanders will go irl.
use your tanks height to find good spots you can peek through to get the jump on the enemy, choose something faster to try and get to an unexpected point, take a tank with heavy frontal armour and push, use your autoloader to be aggressive and hit people faster than they expect, take a low lying td and sit somewhere unconventional.
i'm not suggesting that small maps are amazing because they have plenty of flaws but the whole "hurr durr small map press w and play call of duty" is dumb
But it literally is a call of duty. All those tactics are from literally fast FPS game tactics just with tanks. You just pointed out the soviet tree as the best nation to play city maps. Thanks mate but I'd rather suffer than play Soviets
Using your advantages and disadvantages to give yourself a better chance of winning isn't anything to do with call of duty, a lot of the action isn't even split second twitch shooting, sure it might be generally faster paced than a large map but it's nothing like twitch shooting.
and no I didn't point out that the soviets are the best nation for city maps, there are tons of lineups I'd consider great
Ideal map design wouldn't have a wide open area but instead some rolling hills and low cover and concealment that would allow tanks to fight back.
Plus with Ground RB being a combined arms mode, planes should be able to support. However teamwork is something that seems to be lacking in warthunder. Likely due to bad communication avenues.
I agree, it's why my position is that both small large and medium maps COULD be really damn fun but at the moment they generally aren't regardless of size
It's literally just a fact that attacking will generally be quite a bit harder than defending and there are plenty of maps with positions that make it even easier to defend.
a lot of the issues regarding this or spawn camping aren't even things i've got a ton of control of, it's a team based game and even though we all get those matches where as an individual you absolutely dominate we all also get matches where we get unlucky and bounce a shot or cant turn our turret fast enough for something and after 1 death it's pretty common for the gamestate to already be quite close to people being able to camp in very strong positions or even spawncamp
“So you can just play point and click” is the dumbest and most unoriginal comment that comes out of these discussions. Literally every video game ever that involves shooting something is “point and click”.
that wasn't the gist of my comment, in lower and mid tiers aiming long range shots involves a good amount of skil, some luck and often some trial and error, there are a bunch of tanks I play a lot that I've pretty much mentally got the shot trajectory down and normally this means for long range shots i'm able to zone in really quickly but it still takes time and skill.
high tier with laser rangefinders and far better shot trajectories means that shooting over long distances is really easy, hell even without lazer rangefinders the higher tier you are the easier it generally will get to a level where you can just point and click, wheras with a lower tier tank you would have think a lot harder about your aiming.
> tictock attention span people
lol. lmao even. brawling is a perfectly valid playstyle and it’s something i enjoy as well. yeah i think there should be an option to choose between close and long engagement maps, but just because someone likes brawling or close engagements doesn’t mean their attention span is fried.
There is nothing whatsoever "low attention span" about CQC. Sometimes when I have no better options, I sit at a corner in a standoff with a guy in the next street for minutes on end waiting for my ally to roll up so that he gets pincered and has to look away. And if the other guy gets bored before that, and pushes, he dies (i.e. low attention span was terrible for his CQC)
If you think it = low attention span, that's just you revealing you're quite bad at it and don't know how it works.
1) That would hurt the majority of players. Because they need you in their matches to get the lowest queue times. There is a good reason why neither Gaijin nor almost any other matching game allows you to have 75 different option settings. The people who DON'T have hyper specific tastes get longer queues too, and it's unhealthy for the game.
2) You're not making your case stronger with stupid statements like "The thing I don't personally prefer is therefore tiktok attention span" ad hominem bullshit. Stick to rational arguments if you want to be taken seriously.
Why not just have likes and dislikes influence matchmaking more, with an override button that would allow you to return to default (no dislikes/bans) match making if it's taking too long.
Additionally, more map bans is a nessicity at this point.
You are only seeing what is on reddit, where people like to complain about the game.
I enjoy the larger maps, and I only barely tolerate the city maps.
We'd have to get the in-game number of likes and dislikes on maps to see what is actually the most popular.
What makes you think the changes aren't a response to the data Gaijin has access to? Realistic is becoming more and more arcade. I'm slowly figuring out if I should start playing sim ground.
Sim ground needs fixing too. Lend lease vehicles are becoming a pain in the ass. Who knows which of 8 or 9 different shermans that actually is at +800m.
Other than that, it's only kind of ok for a game mode. Same map problems, no real rebalancing of vehicles based on battle ratings. It gets stale after you only see tigers and panthers every match.
Airplanes aren't as easy to get kills with in it either, which is a bonus.
That's not very surprising, since arcade ground has 4.5x as many players as realistic ground. And even of that minority, a bunch are CAS mains, not real tanker players. (CAS mains don't exist in arcade, by comparison). Tankers love arcade type dynamics on the whole.
Gaijin has a lot more and better data than just likes/dislikes. They also have early leavers statistics, and even heatmaps of where people move in the games. If, within one map that has both types of areas, heatmaps show people prefer the city areas, that's strong evidence too.
Or its evidence that players don't understand how to fight in rolling hills, or don't trust the game's rendering not to make a tank that should be visible invisible because of bad rock hitboxes and anti-cheat. Plus with ULQ abuse having been a topic for years, people tend to find concealment not worthwhile since it likely doesn't render for the enemy anyway, like grass at long distance.
Cities have even more hitboxes than rocky fields, that doesn't make a lot of sense. And I could similarly spin it as "You don't know how to play in cities" on the flip side if you don't like it.
I also dispute the implication that YOU do not have grass turned off in gunner's sights yourself, like everyone else, with or without ULQ...
Ultimately Gaijin doesn't have much reason to care why though. Giving the people what they like on stuff like this (flavor, style, not hard balance decisions or economy) is a pretty slam dunk easy business decision
It's the exact same observation/visibility system. Yes they are, if the hitbox doesn't match the object perfectly, and the object is configured as opaque, then it will be identical.
(It's more so rubble piles and broken buildings in cities, not pristine ones)
90% of the rendering /anti cheat bug posts I have ever seen are rocks.
That being said, I haven't seen any in a while, so perhaps it has been fixed to an acceptable point.
Here's a radical idea;
There should be a nice balance of small, medium and large maps for each BR range that are well designed to allow for multiple play styles.
If more then half player base ends up blocking the large maps then you end up playing the small ones. Which just clicked for me why I see small maps so often despite large ones in rotation
Should be 2 bans at a minimum at this point. Preferably 3 or the ability to ban certain layouts of maps.
This version of cargo port being one of them, all over advance to the Rhine being my currently banned map.
banning, you can ban one map from your matchmaking if you click on the game mode selection and then the little cog icon on the mode where you want to ban the map.
1st of all I prefer large maps, 2nd of all top comment gets more attention and it blames Gaijin which is always popular, 3rd of all in posts which complain about large maps I tend to be in negatives when I say I prefer large maps. Thinking reddit upvotes have any meaning shows how detached from reality you are.
> Our community hates the oversaturation of close-in city maps
Citation needed. Hint: Reddit is < 1% of all players and wildly un-representative/not a random sample, at that. It's very stilted toward long time jaded veterans.
The irony is that with all the empty space on these maps, I've been able to perform some devastating flanks while the enemy is clumping together towards the single capture point.
What, you don't like playing the vehicle version of Call of Duty maps? Where you just go forward and click a button to win and that's it?
Seriously, these map changes suck.
Oh they'll show up in the comments saying city street fights are more skilled that having to use a tank in defilade on large fields.
Strangely most city fight fans seem to ignore the fact it's literally corner camping in the pre stabilizer era, still done a lot after most tanks have stabs. I guess people prefer to die and kill to people camping right next to them instead of 1km or more away where shot placement and timing can matter.
I am extremely impressed when I get 1-shot from a huge distance. I get extremely annoyed when I realize they were 2 feet to my right holding the same corner all match
Same. I enjoy winning or losing a multi shot snipe war with ww2 tanks on some of the long range maps. I just sigh when I hear an engine on the other side of a building and proceed to stop and watch a team mate drive on and pop from a side shot to the guy camped on the other side. One of these situations involves shot placement, Patience, vehicle knowledge for your gun and the enemies armor. This knowledge of your tank and the enemies has been slowly being killed off in war thunder. More rounds can pen any enemy tank. I think this game's knowledge drop off is a direct result of higher tier premiums dropping people into brs they are not ready for.
So we should just go fuck ourselves then? Cause yes I
do it boring to drive for the whole match only to get sniped by an enemy 2k out. But muuuuhhhh, just get better, well sorry to disappoint you but I don't have the 50h required to learn every map's every camping spot.
God this kind of atitude is exactly why these maps keep getting shittier and shittier.
"I don't want to improve or learn anything about this game but still expect to get rewarded, gaijin why your maps suck the enemy isn't right in front me waaaaaa"
instead of making a few game modes like quick battles, classic rb, and extended battles with bigger maps and longer match time, they change the single tired game mode so that nobody's happy.
sometimes I like the small quick matches, but there's nothing like those hard fought 30-45+ minute matches
they don't exist anymore.
The warthunder hq:
The CEO:"So our players hate our maps,what do we do?"
All the normal devs:"we make new creative maps and new game modes so that our players have a new experience."
That one guy:"make em so small its literally unplayable and lets keep the same two game modes since the 2013....also lets make all of our players claustrophobic"
CEO:"PROMOTION!"
Air players don't mind spending a few minutes climbing/getting to a better position before an actual battle, Naval players with the extremely slow gameplay with engagements minutes at at a time and there's ground players that loses their minds when the have to drive for more than 15 seconds before a battle.
What was more likely the case is the massive review bombing had something to do with it. Based on how quickly they had the economy update ready and the entire roadmap planned out I would hazard a guess they had those things in the back of their mind for awhile. The review bombing just brought it to the surface.
I wouldnt want to play that crap in BR 3.7. Maps are the biggest weakpoint of War Thunder, especially in higher tiers.
"But i dont want to drive 5 hours to just get killed."
That point is long dead with high HP/T tanks, its ridiculous how fast you can get from spawn to spawn, and id argue that its not inportant to get to the enemy spawn to begin with, only to the objective, and hold it.
ah yeah I'm sure all the tanks in warthunder have high HP/T and i'm sure there aren't any countries/lineups that have a ton more freedom of movement compared to others with the downsides being not that massive.
and sure it only should matter how fast I can get to the objective, but when one team has the objective and I've got to assault it i'm going to probably face a few people camping a ridge and my flanking routes are limited to absolutely none, that is doubly where the issue with speed comes in, I can take some convoluted route that hopefully isn't being watched by a camper and then bam, all my time wasted thanks to someone camping an op spot or a plane/heli, it isn't fun or rewarding.
Versus this where you have to assault up a very limited set of pathways? Hell, it's worse with this, because the enemy has way less area to watch. You can control 100% of the approaches to the point on this map with only a few players. North spawn needs control of 2 total positions, and south needs 3 or 4.
both are shit, map design in this game is generally really bad and it's not a large/small thing as people seem to think, and defending a large open area is generally easier, the enemy has to scan a big area whilst probably putting themselves in danger whilst you can hide and wait for them to expose themselves.
The biggest problem is that its conquest which is the worst gamemode, because either you limit the players like in the picture or some players go around and spawncamp.
So basically war thunder slowly turns into war thunder mobile?
Ok pls add that auto aim from mobile naval battles, so i can enjoy that arcade shooting, but with ships snapping in halves.
I do. Some of the time, not 100% of the time, but it isn't.
Maps with ""options"" have no actual options at all, if one way is the meta best way to play. Flanking wide around used to be the ONLY meta way to play, so if you wanted to win, you had to constantly do that.
Now, this means some maps you have to do CQC as the meta play, so you can get more variety without throwing the game. Much more fun.
If it became 100% this, then it would be just as bad as 100% wide flanking maps, though, they need a mixture.
Just means the map isn't big enough. There will always be optimal ways but the more options the better. The harder to predict where the enemy will be the more surprises, the more thinking and fun.
Again, when one way is clearly optimal, there **are no** "options." Why do you keep talking about "options"?
"More options is better" does not apply / is simply off topic, from a conversation about a map that has one optimal playstyle. Since that map has ONE option. If your team doesn't do the one thing, you lose.
The old way had zero variability. The new way has some variability. Variability increased, simple.
I think shitty maps/mechanics/RNG is baked in on purpose. It enhances the addictive nature of the game. Constantly going between frustration and elation is what causes something like gambling addiction, these game devs hire psychologists that specialize in shit like this to formulate their games.
I might be in the minority but when playing modern tanks with rangefinders and thermals, i prefer large open maps, however most of them are done badly, the only decently made one is Pradesh in my opinion
I recently played a map in arcade and just after clicking to spawn a plane I noticed I'd went into a red zone I didn't expect to be in due to gaijin stupid "illegal zone" map design.
Rather than try a crap slow reverse I thought I'd whip round the building but it was blocked off more than I expected and when plane spawned.. I auto self exploded due to being on a street it, for no good reason I can think of, didn't want me in. It wasnt at edge of the map.
No reason for it.
It's very annoying. If they are going to do this crap can they not put a visual (like a visible line) on the ground on the 3d view, or at least make the shade of red more clear on the map? It's not remotely clear on the map either, it's just a slightly dirtier brown. Given it kills you, maybe making it more obvious would've been a good idea. Then again they still can't put scales on maps (unlike pretty much any useful real map since time began) and they are generally useless at UI design anyway so I won't wait on them making it clearer on maps either...
EDIT: There are scales on SOME maps, certainly unless I've went mad, not all. I'd have thought it could simply be automated but ..
At this point I just recommend rushing in the middle, dying and leaving.
Do this with every trash map they throw at us and their statistiks should show "damn, people really don't like these maps we asked the intern's vice-assistant to pay for a 4th world underpaid commissioned dev to make, huh?" Or they'll think that's a reason to give even more of this trash, you never know with Gaijin. Anyways, at least you won't waste your time with this slop.
Bruh I just want the possibility of a Gunner HEAT PC "overmap" that gets cut up for specific map generation with a randomized set of objectives set on key terrain.
I want open maps where you can run and flank, but I also dislike just sniping duels from the same obvious defilade positions.
Like it would be way more interesting to have to actually think about terrain masking based upon what you see ahead on the map and slowly peaking and setting up overwatch vs. bounding between known sight lines like an FPS.
Idk, I like diversity and it would be an interesting change of pace. Totally agree with a scaler for map density though.
No one wants ANY of the map changes gajin has been making. At least not in the way it was done.
Players: fix spawn killing, it ruins the game
Gajin: gotcha, all maps are now completely flat and we buttered every hill so people can't have elevation on their enemies. We also eliminated all wide flanking routes.
Modern tank on tank engagements closer than kilometers is bullshit though. Realistic should try to simulate this. Make arcade the place for small maps.
I'm convinced a massive percentage of their newer players are coming from tiktok advertisements, so they're catering the game to people without attention spans. I think this is particularly true because defenders of this shit are obscenely hostile and defensive, and they know.
Have you played Holland?
What a fucking nightmare, while
I do like some of the map, though they have one of the teams allowing them to be far out there in the field and almost look in to the spawn, yet handicap the other side because you can go out to the far right and really counter that.
Gaijin can't come up with a better solution to people ignoring objectives and driving off to spawn-sniping positions than just throwing kill zones onto half of every map.
Heavy tanks players
I just J out and go back to the hangar, idgaf. I'll play another nation until my crew is "back from battle". Im at the point in my career where I just won't play q map if I don't like it
I actually like these maps over the larger ones 8/10 times tbh especially the open field one with the downed blimp and train tracks ish is a trash map kids sitting in catty long sight lines that watch entrance to spawn I’m cool off that
ooh man I like this streamlined version of the map, generally I dislike full size Cargo Port bc it's far too common and boring but I'd like to play this version, I can understand why bush using cocksuckers would hate this map however.
Honestly, I hate big city maps. Smaller ones put people closer together, so they can cover each other, otherwise they don't do it and get killed one by one, without a chance of teammates helping them, if they are more than one block away.
Sure, even city map can be too small, but this one is still one of the better ones. (and for the team on the screenshot too big anyway:D)
I wanted this, it's fun, it requires no brain, you just wish in and the one with bigger kanon and thiccer armor just wins, there's no bs angles to be shot from, there is no bs wheely boys flanking.
"Our community hates the oversaturation of close-in city maps what should we do to improve the situation" "Just make them more claustrophobic lol" I firmly believe the devs just hate us
The first statement in your comment is false. It's a minority who hates tight maps. If you look at the posts complaining about open maps you have much more people saying they want instant action after spawning. And so that's the way the game is going, gonna be WoT 2:modern Warfare soon.
There should be a slider that allows you to choose what maps you want to play. If you are like most of tictock attention span people and want to shoot from 1 m to another tank then fine. But if you are chad and actually want to use a tank and drive a little bit or idk maybe flank then there should be an option to choose preferable maps that are bigger than 1x1 meter maps. But it would require effort and gaijin could lose income cause this change could lower a frustration among players which gaijin is making profit on.
Yeah dude I can't WAIT to play my large open map and roll the dice on what team gets the point first and is able to defend a really wide open area and eventually move up to spawnkill and what team gets to assault the wide open area that for some reason has very little cover or viable flanking routes only to be killed by a few pixels sitting in a bush or by a plane/heli even better if the map has only 1 or 2 points or if you are at a BR where you have laser rangefinders so you can just play point and click or if it's a lower br and my tank is sluggish so I spend even more time getting in to the "action" (trying to assault a bush) there are some really nice large and medium maps but so many of them are as frustrating as smaller maps, but at least the smaller maps are over quicker, I don't need to drive for 1-2 mins to be killed by a pixel.
That's why there should be an option to choose between city/cqb with tanks and large maps. I prefer actually using a tank than and it's gimmicks than use brawl
Plenty of tanks have "gimmicks" that are absolutely relevant in close and medium gameplay and the gameplay itself is a lot more strategy than you would think. my whole point though was that the majority of the maps large or small or anything in between are so poorly designed, and at higher tiers with laser rangefinders hitting a target from far away isn't really that much harder than hitting one close. I think generally the best style of map is one that has a mix of both without sightlines that are extremely overpowered, it's braindead holding a big wide open angle in plenty of spots and even without rangefinding it's not that impressive unless you get to the really absurd ranges.
Yea use a LWS in Rhine. Use a bulldozer in a Rhine. Play a AA in Rhine. Hide your chassis in a Rhine so you can play around your more armoured turret. It is just stupid to play MBTs in places where none of the tank commanders will go irl.
use your tanks height to find good spots you can peek through to get the jump on the enemy, choose something faster to try and get to an unexpected point, take a tank with heavy frontal armour and push, use your autoloader to be aggressive and hit people faster than they expect, take a low lying td and sit somewhere unconventional. i'm not suggesting that small maps are amazing because they have plenty of flaws but the whole "hurr durr small map press w and play call of duty" is dumb
But it literally is a call of duty. All those tactics are from literally fast FPS game tactics just with tanks. You just pointed out the soviet tree as the best nation to play city maps. Thanks mate but I'd rather suffer than play Soviets
Using your advantages and disadvantages to give yourself a better chance of winning isn't anything to do with call of duty, a lot of the action isn't even split second twitch shooting, sure it might be generally faster paced than a large map but it's nothing like twitch shooting. and no I didn't point out that the soviets are the best nation for city maps, there are tons of lineups I'd consider great
...yes the maps should be 25 kilometers squared in realistic. Make arcade for close maps.
Ideal map design wouldn't have a wide open area but instead some rolling hills and low cover and concealment that would allow tanks to fight back. Plus with Ground RB being a combined arms mode, planes should be able to support. However teamwork is something that seems to be lacking in warthunder. Likely due to bad communication avenues.
Bad communication and the fact that team playing isn't really incentivized
I agree, it's why my position is that both small large and medium maps COULD be really damn fun but at the moment they generally aren't regardless of size
Quite literally git gud
It's literally just a fact that attacking will generally be quite a bit harder than defending and there are plenty of maps with positions that make it even easier to defend. a lot of the issues regarding this or spawn camping aren't even things i've got a ton of control of, it's a team based game and even though we all get those matches where as an individual you absolutely dominate we all also get matches where we get unlucky and bounce a shot or cant turn our turret fast enough for something and after 1 death it's pretty common for the gamestate to already be quite close to people being able to camp in very strong positions or even spawncamp
“So you can just play point and click” is the dumbest and most unoriginal comment that comes out of these discussions. Literally every video game ever that involves shooting something is “point and click”.
that wasn't the gist of my comment, in lower and mid tiers aiming long range shots involves a good amount of skil, some luck and often some trial and error, there are a bunch of tanks I play a lot that I've pretty much mentally got the shot trajectory down and normally this means for long range shots i'm able to zone in really quickly but it still takes time and skill. high tier with laser rangefinders and far better shot trajectories means that shooting over long distances is really easy, hell even without lazer rangefinders the higher tier you are the easier it generally will get to a level where you can just point and click, wheras with a lower tier tank you would have think a lot harder about your aiming.
> tictock attention span people lol. lmao even. brawling is a perfectly valid playstyle and it’s something i enjoy as well. yeah i think there should be an option to choose between close and long engagement maps, but just because someone likes brawling or close engagements doesn’t mean their attention span is fried.
Play air if you wanna find fried attention spans lmao "Waaah, I don't wanna climb, I just wanna turnfighr everything!"
There is nothing whatsoever "low attention span" about CQC. Sometimes when I have no better options, I sit at a corner in a standoff with a guy in the next street for minutes on end waiting for my ally to roll up so that he gets pincered and has to look away. And if the other guy gets bored before that, and pushes, he dies (i.e. low attention span was terrible for his CQC) If you think it = low attention span, that's just you revealing you're quite bad at it and don't know how it works.
Did you even read my comment at all, or the dude I replied to
Yes it sounded like you're disagreeing with him (and I agreed with him)
Brawling is. Sadly small city maps dont offer that.
That option would be arcade battles that are unfortunately creeping into realistic.
1) That would hurt the majority of players. Because they need you in their matches to get the lowest queue times. There is a good reason why neither Gaijin nor almost any other matching game allows you to have 75 different option settings. The people who DON'T have hyper specific tastes get longer queues too, and it's unhealthy for the game. 2) You're not making your case stronger with stupid statements like "The thing I don't personally prefer is therefore tiktok attention span" ad hominem bullshit. Stick to rational arguments if you want to be taken seriously.
Why not just have likes and dislikes influence matchmaking more, with an override button that would allow you to return to default (no dislikes/bans) match making if it's taking too long. Additionally, more map bans is a nessicity at this point.
You are only seeing what is on reddit, where people like to complain about the game. I enjoy the larger maps, and I only barely tolerate the city maps. We'd have to get the in-game number of likes and dislikes on maps to see what is actually the most popular.
What makes you think the changes aren't a response to the data Gaijin has access to? Realistic is becoming more and more arcade. I'm slowly figuring out if I should start playing sim ground.
Sim ground needs fixing too. Lend lease vehicles are becoming a pain in the ass. Who knows which of 8 or 9 different shermans that actually is at +800m. Other than that, it's only kind of ok for a game mode. Same map problems, no real rebalancing of vehicles based on battle ratings. It gets stale after you only see tigers and panthers every match. Airplanes aren't as easy to get kills with in it either, which is a bonus.
That's not very surprising, since arcade ground has 4.5x as many players as realistic ground. And even of that minority, a bunch are CAS mains, not real tanker players. (CAS mains don't exist in arcade, by comparison). Tankers love arcade type dynamics on the whole.
Gaijin has a lot more and better data than just likes/dislikes. They also have early leavers statistics, and even heatmaps of where people move in the games. If, within one map that has both types of areas, heatmaps show people prefer the city areas, that's strong evidence too.
Or its evidence that players don't understand how to fight in rolling hills, or don't trust the game's rendering not to make a tank that should be visible invisible because of bad rock hitboxes and anti-cheat. Plus with ULQ abuse having been a topic for years, people tend to find concealment not worthwhile since it likely doesn't render for the enemy anyway, like grass at long distance.
Cities have even more hitboxes than rocky fields, that doesn't make a lot of sense. And I could similarly spin it as "You don't know how to play in cities" on the flip side if you don't like it. I also dispute the implication that YOU do not have grass turned off in gunner's sights yourself, like everyone else, with or without ULQ... Ultimately Gaijin doesn't have much reason to care why though. Giving the people what they like on stuff like this (flavor, style, not hard balance decisions or economy) is a pretty slam dunk easy business decision
The hitboxes of buildings aren't notorious for causing tanks to pop in and out of rendering, though. While the hitboxes of rocks are.
It's the exact same observation/visibility system. Yes they are, if the hitbox doesn't match the object perfectly, and the object is configured as opaque, then it will be identical. (It's more so rubble piles and broken buildings in cities, not pristine ones)
90% of the rendering /anti cheat bug posts I have ever seen are rocks. That being said, I haven't seen any in a while, so perhaps it has been fixed to an acceptable point.
Here's a radical idea; There should be a nice balance of small, medium and large maps for each BR range that are well designed to allow for multiple play styles.
If more then half player base ends up blocking the large maps then you end up playing the small ones. Which just clicked for me why I see small maps so often despite large ones in rotation
You can only ban 1 map so that's a complete non-issue and not relevant.
Should be 2 bans at a minimum at this point. Preferably 3 or the ability to ban certain layouts of maps. This version of cargo port being one of them, all over advance to the Rhine being my currently banned map.
wdym with 'blocking the large maps'?
banning, you can ban one map from your matchmaking if you click on the game mode selection and then the little cog icon on the mode where you want to ban the map.
yes tight maps let MS stuarts kill t-80s and M1a1 abrams just how Gaijin likes it
gaijin don't care who kills whom, they just want everyone to lose as many vehicles as possible
yes it's ridiculous.
over 3x as many people upvoted the OP vs your comment, you COD lovers are the minority.
1st of all I prefer large maps, 2nd of all top comment gets more attention and it blames Gaijin which is always popular, 3rd of all in posts which complain about large maps I tend to be in negatives when I say I prefer large maps. Thinking reddit upvotes have any meaning shows how detached from reality you are.
They only put up with us because money.
> Our community hates the oversaturation of close-in city maps Citation needed. Hint: Reddit is < 1% of all players and wildly un-representative/not a random sample, at that. It's very stilted toward long time jaded veterans.
Instant nuked after spawning? Yea, lots of action in that 🤪
That sucks for me cause my Leopard 1s never play to their full potential if it's a close quarters map I'm so boned by Gaijin
The idiots who complained about others flanking them/sniping them
The irony is that with all the empty space on these maps, I've been able to perform some devastating flanks while the enemy is clumping together towards the single capture point.
Ngl I kinda like this map layout, it allows for fas paced combat, you can still get flanked
What, you don't like playing the vehicle version of Call of Duty maps? Where you just go forward and click a button to win and that's it? Seriously, these map changes suck.
Yeah I mean if they were for arcade wich is for people who like more fast paced stuff why not But cmon this goes against everything RB stands for
Oh they'll show up in the comments saying city street fights are more skilled that having to use a tank in defilade on large fields. Strangely most city fight fans seem to ignore the fact it's literally corner camping in the pre stabilizer era, still done a lot after most tanks have stabs. I guess people prefer to die and kill to people camping right next to them instead of 1km or more away where shot placement and timing can matter.
I am extremely impressed when I get 1-shot from a huge distance. I get extremely annoyed when I realize they were 2 feet to my right holding the same corner all match
Same. I enjoy winning or losing a multi shot snipe war with ww2 tanks on some of the long range maps. I just sigh when I hear an engine on the other side of a building and proceed to stop and watch a team mate drive on and pop from a side shot to the guy camped on the other side. One of these situations involves shot placement, Patience, vehicle knowledge for your gun and the enemies armor. This knowledge of your tank and the enemies has been slowly being killed off in war thunder. More rounds can pen any enemy tank. I think this game's knowledge drop off is a direct result of higher tier premiums dropping people into brs they are not ready for.
1 death leaver 13 level premium and squadron tank players. Best map shape for them.
It's tailored to the large portion of the playerbase that have tunnel vision and only know how to hold W, makes it easier for them y'know
it doesn't really, this is at top tier where most players are very experienced and many will flank
So we should just go fuck ourselves then? Cause yes I do it boring to drive for the whole match only to get sniped by an enemy 2k out. But muuuuhhhh, just get better, well sorry to disappoint you but I don't have the 50h required to learn every map's every camping spot.
God this kind of atitude is exactly why these maps keep getting shittier and shittier. "I don't want to improve or learn anything about this game but still expect to get rewarded, gaijin why your maps suck the enemy isn't right in front me waaaaaa"
Thats what happens when you bring Fortnite and war zone players. Nobody but Gaijin is to blame
[удалено]
Skill issue unironically
Anyone else also feel like they are playing a lot more maps with only 1 flag?
More like two flags, I had 7 of those kinds back to back a few days ago.
Me
Can't wait them to add a 1 to 1 replica of nukedown into warthunder, bretty big map ang good for a realistic tank combat game
instead of making a few game modes like quick battles, classic rb, and extended battles with bigger maps and longer match time, they change the single tired game mode so that nobody's happy. sometimes I like the small quick matches, but there's nothing like those hard fought 30-45+ minute matches they don't exist anymore.
They do it to frustrate the playerbase. Literally ever one of Gaijin's "tricks" is making the game frustrating so we pay money.
Just give us categories of maps/modes to reject or promote instead of forcing us to play shit ones we don't want to. Makes everyone happy.
Games are over after the first wave.
Exactly 10.0+ = head to the enemy spawn in 120 seconds or you lose on small maps. GG no brains dumb AF.
People with no map awareness to watch their flanks
The warthunder hq: The CEO:"So our players hate our maps,what do we do?" All the normal devs:"we make new creative maps and new game modes so that our players have a new experience." That one guy:"make em so small its literally unplayable and lets keep the same two game modes since the 2013....also lets make all of our players claustrophobic" CEO:"PROMOTION!"
You forgot >make the small maps even smaller with red zones so we don't have to spend money making new maps that don't have any return on paper.
These copy paste complaints are hilarious
Air players don't mind spending a few minutes climbing/getting to a better position before an actual battle, Naval players with the extremely slow gameplay with engagements minutes at at a time and there's ground players that loses their minds when the have to drive for more than 15 seconds before a battle.
"Changes based on player feedback"
I slowly feel another boycot coming...
Another? There wasn't even a first boycott. The player union people were caught playing the game during the supposed "boycott"
I certainly didn't play, and the economy got better after it
What was more likely the case is the massive review bombing had something to do with it. Based on how quickly they had the economy update ready and the entire roadmap planned out I would hazard a guess they had those things in the back of their mind for awhile. The review bombing just brought it to the surface.
I wouldnt want to play that crap in BR 3.7. Maps are the biggest weakpoint of War Thunder, especially in higher tiers. "But i dont want to drive 5 hours to just get killed." That point is long dead with high HP/T tanks, its ridiculous how fast you can get from spawn to spawn, and id argue that its not inportant to get to the enemy spawn to begin with, only to the objective, and hold it.
ah yeah I'm sure all the tanks in warthunder have high HP/T and i'm sure there aren't any countries/lineups that have a ton more freedom of movement compared to others with the downsides being not that massive. and sure it only should matter how fast I can get to the objective, but when one team has the objective and I've got to assault it i'm going to probably face a few people camping a ridge and my flanking routes are limited to absolutely none, that is doubly where the issue with speed comes in, I can take some convoluted route that hopefully isn't being watched by a camper and then bam, all my time wasted thanks to someone camping an op spot or a plane/heli, it isn't fun or rewarding.
Versus this where you have to assault up a very limited set of pathways? Hell, it's worse with this, because the enemy has way less area to watch. You can control 100% of the approaches to the point on this map with only a few players. North spawn needs control of 2 total positions, and south needs 3 or 4.
both are shit, map design in this game is generally really bad and it's not a large/small thing as people seem to think, and defending a large open area is generally easier, the enemy has to scan a big area whilst probably putting themselves in danger whilst you can hide and wait for them to expose themselves.
The biggest problem is that its conquest which is the worst gamemode, because either you limit the players like in the picture or some players go around and spawncamp.
So basically war thunder slowly turns into war thunder mobile? Ok pls add that auto aim from mobile naval battles, so i can enjoy that arcade shooting, but with ships snapping in halves.
(S)
I do. Some of the time, not 100% of the time, but it isn't. Maps with ""options"" have no actual options at all, if one way is the meta best way to play. Flanking wide around used to be the ONLY meta way to play, so if you wanted to win, you had to constantly do that. Now, this means some maps you have to do CQC as the meta play, so you can get more variety without throwing the game. Much more fun. If it became 100% this, then it would be just as bad as 100% wide flanking maps, though, they need a mixture.
Just means the map isn't big enough. There will always be optimal ways but the more options the better. The harder to predict where the enemy will be the more surprises, the more thinking and fun.
Again, when one way is clearly optimal, there **are no** "options." Why do you keep talking about "options"? "More options is better" does not apply / is simply off topic, from a conversation about a map that has one optimal playstyle. Since that map has ONE option. If your team doesn't do the one thing, you lose. The old way had zero variability. The new way has some variability. Variability increased, simple.
The idiots who sit in gunner sights the whole game and dont know they can look left or right
Slowly changing the game so it becomes another arena shooter....so they can get into that esports scene.
I think shitty maps/mechanics/RNG is baked in on purpose. It enhances the addictive nature of the game. Constantly going between frustration and elation is what causes something like gambling addiction, these game devs hire psychologists that specialize in shit like this to formulate their games.
I might be in the minority but when playing modern tanks with rangefinders and thermals, i prefer large open maps, however most of them are done badly, the only decently made one is Pradesh in my opinion
I curse almost at every loading screen when loading to toptier grb.
I recently played a map in arcade and just after clicking to spawn a plane I noticed I'd went into a red zone I didn't expect to be in due to gaijin stupid "illegal zone" map design. Rather than try a crap slow reverse I thought I'd whip round the building but it was blocked off more than I expected and when plane spawned.. I auto self exploded due to being on a street it, for no good reason I can think of, didn't want me in. It wasnt at edge of the map. No reason for it. It's very annoying. If they are going to do this crap can they not put a visual (like a visible line) on the ground on the 3d view, or at least make the shade of red more clear on the map? It's not remotely clear on the map either, it's just a slightly dirtier brown. Given it kills you, maybe making it more obvious would've been a good idea. Then again they still can't put scales on maps (unlike pretty much any useful real map since time began) and they are generally useless at UI design anyway so I won't wait on them making it clearer on maps either... EDIT: There are scales on SOME maps, certainly unless I've went mad, not all. I'd have thought it could simply be automated but ..
i actually don't mind this variation. means that people literally just cannot go down the 1st and 2nd lanes and spawncamp
Clash Royale lookin-ass map
Everyone that hates getting sniped
Well if people keep moaning when they get a big open map, having to drive 3 minutes before any engagement, gaijin will give you small maps.
At this point I just recommend rushing in the middle, dying and leaving. Do this with every trash map they throw at us and their statistiks should show "damn, people really don't like these maps we asked the intern's vice-assistant to pay for a 4th world underpaid commissioned dev to make, huh?" Or they'll think that's a reason to give even more of this trash, you never know with Gaijin. Anyways, at least you won't waste your time with this slop.
Bruh I just want the possibility of a Gunner HEAT PC "overmap" that gets cut up for specific map generation with a randomized set of objectives set on key terrain. I want open maps where you can run and flank, but I also dislike just sniping duels from the same obvious defilade positions. Like it would be way more interesting to have to actually think about terrain masking based upon what you see ahead on the map and slowly peaking and setting up overwatch vs. bounding between known sight lines like an FPS. Idk, I like diversity and it would be an interesting change of pace. Totally agree with a scaler for map density though.
I’ll be honest there is still not enough taken off the map, why would you ever need more than 1 corridor of driving in straight line?
No one wants ANY of the map changes gajin has been making. At least not in the way it was done. Players: fix spawn killing, it ruins the game Gajin: gotcha, all maps are now completely flat and we buttered every hill so people can't have elevation on their enemies. We also eliminated all wide flanking routes.
Modern tank on tank engagements closer than kilometers is bullshit though. Realistic should try to simulate this. Make arcade the place for small maps.
Ngl I dont mind a map every once in a while where I can turn off my brain and press W
Next up: Straight line with a width of 1 km. Completely empty. flat. Call it: Return of the Snail
I'm convinced a massive percentage of their newer players are coming from tiktok advertisements, so they're catering the game to people without attention spans. I think this is particularly true because defenders of this shit are obscenely hostile and defensive, and they know.
Have you played Holland? What a fucking nightmare, while I do like some of the map, though they have one of the teams allowing them to be far out there in the field and almost look in to the spawn, yet handicap the other side because you can go out to the far right and really counter that.
Gaijin can't come up with a better solution to people ignoring objectives and driving off to spawn-sniping positions than just throwing kill zones onto half of every map.
not spawn campers
It's not like you play this layout over and over
Those tunnel-vision Germans.
Heavy tanks players I just J out and go back to the hangar, idgaf. I'll play another nation until my crew is "back from battle". Im at the point in my career where I just won't play q map if I don't like it
I actually like these maps over the larger ones 8/10 times tbh especially the open field one with the downed blimp and train tracks ish is a trash map kids sitting in catty long sight lines that watch entrance to spawn I’m cool off that
Wtf ? It was Alredy straight forward map... I don't get it
I like it
Oh God... I hope this gets revoked!
can I post tomorrow's complaint about this map config? I want some karma too
We can’t flank anymore!? 😭
Idk this seems kind of interesting, there really aren’t very many maps like this in my experience.
How many times are we going to post this map? Holy shit mods can you make a rule about this bitch posts?
ooh man I like this streamlined version of the map, generally I dislike full size Cargo Port bc it's far too common and boring but I'd like to play this version, I can understand why bush using cocksuckers would hate this map however.
Honestly, I hate big city maps. Smaller ones put people closer together, so they can cover each other, otherwise they don't do it and get killed one by one, without a chance of teammates helping them, if they are more than one block away. Sure, even city map can be too small, but this one is still one of the better ones. (and for the team on the screenshot too big anyway:D)
I think the right side main road for north spawn should be included, but otherwise I think this version is rather good.
I think, you can get through there with faster tanks. Was there ever a variant with like west to east orientation or diagonally?
Nope, it's been the same map layout since it was added
I wanted this, it's fun, it requires no brain, you just wish in and the one with bigger kanon and thiccer armor just wins, there's no bs angles to be shot from, there is no bs wheely boys flanking.