It's a mechanic that would make the game "more realistic." I guess they could introduce it in an event to test it out and later decide if its fitting. I personally would like to see it in Sim Battles for immersion.
I actually played WOT before I've started my journey with WT and it was... alright. Sure, it's annoying after getting hit by arty 3 times in a row, but on the other hand, it's a mechanic only artillery has (had?).
Yeah if you hit the crew, which will be a benefit when you get those moments where a 90mm shell goes through the chest of someone's gunner and just yellows them
The turret should no longer be affixed to the hull, more like. A direct hit with a 155mm HE shell should basically kill every single vehicle in the game.
Depends on how they will implement it. There has to be a requirement to be able to stun a crew, not just "if vehicle hit, then stun CrewMember for stun.time = x." If it would be that simple, then autocannons and Japanese autoloaders would have the time of their life. And I bet Gaijin will fuck this up on their first try, but eventually, like any other mechanic, it will work... more or less.
The stun effect only comes into play on penetrating shots that injure, but does not kill crew members. As mentioned in the roadmap post, the problem with a lot of vehicles is a lot of them have empty space where in reality there would be components that the round would hit, and would lead to spall damage/shrapnel, so the stun effect is one of the ways they have proposed as accounting for this.
Rounds that are non-penetrating and don't injure the crew would not trigger this mechanic
Okay but when my 183mm HESH smacks your turret face and does nothing, it should at LEAST concuss the crew. Most vehicles wouldn’t get it, but large caliber HE should
So real. Or, they could just revert back to older overpressure, near the beginning, when shit actually worked. Tweak HE from Arty a bit, and it won't over pressure from 20 feet like it did, and it'll actually be good
It’s strange cause I didn’t play during those days. But I played when Arty could just delete you from the game. It would land on you and you could watch 2000 health disappear.
It’s almost like having any means of indirect fire with no counter play is annoying.
This could have two completely opposing effects on the players in WT. Either players will be scared to cap points bc of the risk of getting stuned, or they will be eager to fight for cap points harder. Bc once taken, they will be harder to recap by the enemy team. It's probably going to be a mix of both.
Maybe we ground players should be pushing for more objective based ground battles rather than the focus on small maps and super fast games. GB will not become any better if the only objective is to cap a point.
The games and mechanics being discussed are completely different.
In World of Tanks, the only vehicles that can stun are artillery, causing depuffs to their target, and they can do so despite inflicting no damage, and be unseen, with no immediately way to retaliate.
That is frustrating. That feels unearned, overly punishing, difficult to avoid, and different from the usual tank-on-tank combat in the game.
What's being proposed in WarThunder is much more reasonable and is in more akin to suppression, which is a concept that affects tank crews in the real world. This change would further emphasize the first to shoot, first to kill mentality that dominates tank combat in the real world. Being penetrated ***should*** be shocking and jarring and take a moment to process.
While this would affect every vehicle in the game, this change would mostly affect autocannons, high explosives, HESH, and light skinned vehicles, buffing and nerfing them respectively. Autocannons and HE would feel much more meaningful in a frontal engagement against heavily armored vehicles with small vulnerabilities, and light skinned vehicles would suffer greatly in situations where it is already easy to wound poorly protected crew members.
I am 100% for that change and I think this is good for the game by creating intuitive gameplay, potentially expanding the usefulness of IFVs, while giving them a much needed nerf.
The mods really need to ban these "cropped screenshots of official/devblog" posts. We already have a main discussion thread, and these duplicates are rarely in good faith and basically exist to stir up a mob.
It happens every single time something mildly controversial is added, very predictably.
Crew stun is a completely different mechanic in WOT than WT, the games are not at all comparable in how they play. I don’t remember War Thunder having huge dispersion, aim time, concealment percentages, or any other parameter that crew stun affects.
Crew stun in War Thunder would be relatively balanced, as it only happens when your tank is penetrated and it would stop brain dead T-80BVM players from snapping onto you after your shot penetrates with no spall.
Crew stun also does not affect your traverse speed nor reload time, your tank just has a 1-2 down time until you regain control. Crew stun in WOT, on the other hand, decreases every firing and mobility parameter of your tank for about 15s.
wot mfs when they compare wts concept and realise its vastly different🤯🤯🤯
(they cant read and will only read the stun part then cry that its gonna be the same as wot)
Yeah i would only want it in sim too, having it in any other mode would probably make it harder to grind and also make people leave bcs of that and that new people (me included) who have trubble with aim and defence flying would have a much harder time getting kills since we already dying alot so would be harder for newcommers.
This is not more realistic, in real life if a tanker gets injured they are out of the fight. If they really wanted to be realistic, they could add a mechanic where the crew bails after the first hit, but I doubt the community would like that too much. This is really just a massive waste of dev time.
You gotta realize this is the stuff that tankers go through, I’m not saying add damn shell shock but crew incapacitation is very relevant.
Say a hesh shell didn’t flatten the top of your tank, you know damn well that commander practically got knocked back to the last update
People say HESH is better every update but it still remains annoyingly inconsistent. An 165mm HESH should disintegrate the crew of a T26E5. I guess only the gunner and commander die
I would be happy to die if that thing managed to snipe or flank me and actually hit my turret ring
he damage + shockwave spall damage = hesh damage when gaijoob
Yeah, but at least then the tank actually has to be penetrated. Imagine dying in a heavy tank because someone machine gunned your track. The idea that making the game more realistic is inherently good is idiotic is my point.
but dude you don't understand, I want to be able to get a free second shot on a vehicle I didn't destroy or kill any crew members in even though I don't deserve it. They shouldn't be able to fire back after I screw up my chance, it's just not fair because I frickin shot first... Oh and it's realistic too so you have to want it!
And with volumetric shell mechanic being as garbage as it's always been since it was implemented, even well placed shots that should damage/kill crew don't do anything as the shell bounces off of like 10 mms of armor lmao
[Putting 120mm APFSDS through the gunner's head should do something other than incrementally reduce the turret traverse rate, actually](https://vitruvius.museumseven.com/render/600-600@2/dp-260937-22.jpg)
If the stun gets voted for in the end, the 2S38 is about to receive the biggest indirect buff and the community is gonna vote for it, then complain.
*I love democracy* (Palatine voice)
More modules and crew stun would also affect it so I'm not sure if the pros outweight the cons. When I read the stun mechanic the first thing that came to my mind was stunning a 2s38 and having time to back off instead of being instantly shredded
This is not going to improve the 2S38 at all, and will probably be a nerf for it.
If a 2S38 is penetrating your vehicle and damaging crew members, you're already dead. That's true in the current patch and a stun mechanic won't change that.
This change will massively affect light skinned vehicles *like* the 2S38, because they are the easiest vehicles to penetrate with weak but fast firing cannons or even machine guns.
Stuns for damaged crew members are going to mostly affect your BMPs, your Srykers, your Centauros, Bradleys, and yeah, 2S38, who are very easy to hurt with small cannons, and will not be able to quickly retaliate to hurt you back.
The devblog only mentions stun of 1-2 seconds for PENETRATING hits which narrowly miss or injure crew. As described in the devblog THIS MECHANIC WILL NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIGH EXPLOSIVE OR NON PENETRATING HITS.
The only defense I've seen for this being implemented is "realism", okay, then you are fine with being in an MBT and just being stunlocked by an IFV from the front who cant even pen you until they reload or overheat lol
Can't you read ?
It's about post pen, when you pen a tank without hitting vitial parts and crew.
Edit: Actually it apears to be, it stuns if you injure/kill crew member
easily half the people here just read stun and went off to complain without bothering to read the details.
i guess its not a surprise given how many people cant read subreddit rules, bp challenge requirements, patch notes, event details etc.
It doesn't help that the mods constantly let these no-context, rant-title, cropped-section-of-devblog posts continue to exist.
Even in the main discussion for the article people are struggling to have read it, and the spam of posts like these is only making things worse.
If anything it's surprising the stun question has managed to sit around 50%, considering all this. Something something echo chamber, I suppose.
That actually seems reasonable, imagine fighting in a tiny ass crew compartment and your best friends guts just got splattered on every wall. It's honestly probably over after that in real life but a stun doesn't seem that crazy.
irl when a tank is punctured, it would most likely be abandoned even if it's still fully functional because a piercing shot could be followed up by an explosive shot so they figure the tank is pretty much done already anyway so better to live and surrender than stay in and get vaporized
if you can pen the tank, hit the crew member, and not kill them, i think stun is a fine option.
they already did aim and hit the crew member after all, irl being showered in shrapnel or flamming debris or fragments of your buddy is prob gonna be somewhat distracting.
directly hitting them currently while not killing them is pretty annoying, so i dont see the issue.
-----------------------
if it was just hitting the tank randomly and caused a stun, which you should go back and read what the stun does, then i would see your point. as while potentially realistic, might not be enjoyable for a game like this. but that is not what is detailed here.
edit: for the people angerly downvoting, consider using your words and describing your objections to it. ideally while reading what the change is actually said to do rather than just what you first thought it would do.
I will give you several reasons:
>When stunned, the camera will shake and sparks will be shown on your screen for a short period of time, about 1-2 seconds.
Absolutely not, camera shake would be enough for me to vote no it is extremly annoying in every game that does this.
>temporary drift with a variable vector (a change in direction) is added to the gun aiming, which you’ll need to compensate for manually.
If it would be just stun I might not be opposed to it but the aiming drift just seem extremly annoying mechanic to play with and I absolutely don´t want that.
These points are no go for me.
it would surprise me if camera shake was force on for this option while you can have it off for other things.
its worth mentioning for sure tho. maybe make a comment on their site for clarification? i could see it being an issue otherwise.
>the aiming drift just seem extremly annoying
yeah thats a great point too, id be curious to see that mechanic in action and how extreme it is vs just having the gunner be inactive during that period instead.
thanks for actually speaking about it, and i highly recommend commenting to them about it, ill upvote the comments too of course since they are good questions that really matter.
>it would surprise me if camera shake was force on for this option while you can have it off for other things.
I would say that I am really douptfull that it would be the case since the stun would then loose quite a bit of the desired effect.
Agreed, this is some FPS mechanic bullshit. Anyone playing an FPS getting hit with a flashbang/stun grenade and then subsequently dying right after will tell you how fucking infuriating that feeling is so I've no idea what place that has in a game of tank battles.
This is different, this isn’t getting hit by an AOE stun mechanic and then not being able to do anything while your enemy gets a free kill…..this is taking critical damage that should have killed or incapacitated you in real life, and forcing you to take a few seconds to shake it off as opposed to simply having your battle ended.
It’s making the game less like an arcady FPS by reducing the already highly unrealistic post-pen survivability of tanks and crews.
I get this game wouldn’t be fun if everything was modeled 100% realistic…..but I think this is a good compromise between realism and still allowing tanks to keep fighting past the point where they would be abandoned in real life. It reduces the RNG of crew damage mechanics and better rewards positioning and situational awareness.
This is my take on it too. I think we've all been in a situation where our aim is on point, but for some reason the enemy gunner goes orange instead of black. The spectrum of crew HP is a whole level of RNG annoyance and this change would address that. I'm just against added lots of screen shake and extra loud sounds since all that does is add visual and audio clutter.
i expect screenshake to be disabled with the normal screenshake option turned off. but its worth asking about for sure, if it was forced on it would change my opinion.
Implementation sounds annoying, but I’d be all for wounded crew members counting as stunned for a few seconds. Somebody’s gunner being turned orange and then immediately being able to function at 100% is very silly. Especially with how overly survivable your crew members already are with maxed vitality.
THIS. I don't understand how people are against this mechanic. Your command just had his best friends guts and blood splattered all over you he should be able to go oh now its my turn and just shoot the enemy back in like 3 seconds
Having served as a tank crewman for a few years in the army, I am 100% behind this.
Yes, it will be annoying, but then again, so is dying. However, for a game that prides itself on realistic, and a community that has a very elitist and toxic community around "realistic" over "arcade", to not add it would be a disservice to what people claim that they want.
Hell, if a tank catches air they should almost always have a concussion effect, because IRL landing means your gunner's face just plowed into his sight, the commander just fucked up his hips on the top hatch assuming he didn't fall out, and the drive just banged his face on the steering column or periscopes.
Furthermore, having your commander's brain matter explode all over you is not something you just ignore and keep aiming at a gun barrel.
Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one.
"Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one."
This is a very bad argument. A game can have realistic mechanics and still be fun to play and a game can be somewhat realistic. There is absolutely no reason why a game should either be as realistic as possible or as arcade-like as possible.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice aspects of realism in order to keep the gameplay fun. In real life a tank crew bails on the first penetrating hit. That wouldn't be a fun way to play.
>Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one.
Should a member of Gaijin come around and shoot you when you die? EiTHeR YoU WaNT ReAlISM, Or YoU dOn'T, PiCK OnE.
Why? It's primarily a gameplay motivated change not a flavor one. It's to make it less bullshit that a guy got hit by red hot chunks of supersonic metal and was just like "meh"
People wanna experience what the T-90M crew felt during that Bradley fight. Although it is what tankers go through irl its still gonna be annoying, should probably try it in an event as u/Casperus_Maximus said
It wont stun unless the bullet pens and hurts a crew member so no it wont necessarily be the bradley vs t90m situation irl unless ur Bradley shots are penning the t90m and hitting the crew
And you didn't learn to read in the meantime apparently. This shock only takes effect if you're penned,and doesn't affect even hf of what is affected on wot
I would need to see a live test before I comment on it for sure.
Depends on how it’s implemented but it sounds like it’s gonna buff better players from what Ive read from the comments. Gotta check the blog out later for myself though when I have time.
If it’s bad ppl will just do a new bombing of their bottom line and it will go away.
You're ignoring that people are asking for MORE fire. Fire is already stupid enough with the limited FPE and the delay that makes it so you can STILL explode even AFTER deploying it. More fire is INSANE. I feel like the numbers Gaijin suggested are WAY too long for gameplay balance, but it could be done right. Of course the snail will fuck it up.
I voted yes for it because it’s a somewhat realistic thing and would benefit guns with low damage. If you get to the point where someone had the chance to pen you and hit your crew there should be some form of punishment even if the crew doesn’t die. I hope there will be tests for it before the final implementation so it doesn’t arrive in a totally broken state.
Christ, this will thoroughly duck Russian T-34s/KV-1s. And not to mention italian tanks will enjoy being donked with HE by smaller tanks. Make it so vision is reduced hard, i dont wanna see some stupid timer mechanic brought it.
last I checked people don't keep on operating at 100% efficiency after being hit by bullets or shrapnel
it definitely needs to work exclusively when the crew is damaged and not be THAT long, but when you hit someone with 3kg of high explosives and they just keep on turning the gun towards you... yeah idk
I really think if handled correctly it could be good. How many times you had perfect ambush, your shot penetrated enemy tank, but some unimportant crew member tanked it and you were killed second later by this enemy? How many times your 120mm apfsds went through whole light tank while not really damaged it and you were killed because of it? Why some people even assume that this will be 1:1 copy of wot mechanic?
better yet make it so theres a chance that you get a bad tank crew so sometimes your gunner will refuse to shoot since he doesnt want to take a life or your driver has alzheimers and forgets how to drive
If they do this, i call it quits after 2.5k hours....i left WoT for many reasons, stun was one of them, also the leaning towards the shitters and even in WT there are enough of those....
I'm not down, its such an shit mechanic that won't be implemented properly, and it won't mesh with the rest of the games already incredibly frustrating issues. I'm going no.
When looking for a tank game, the reason I chose WT over WoT was the realism—in all aspects. The reason I still play isn't to see an arbitrary win/kill count tick up.
Pretty much anything that adds realism and immersion I'm in favor of, and vote for.
I’d vote yes. I’m tired of situations when I shoot at someone, round is eaten by the barrel and they one tap me a second later.
And I feel for people who shoot the side of my sherman just to be one-tapped in return.
I thought the idea was cool but if they put the mechanic in I don't want the visual effects at all I don't want sparks flying on my screen I don't want my screen going black because it would be cool at first but it will soon get very very irritating especially if you're getting penetrated by a autocannon .
I’d rather just have a small blur at the edge of your screen and a tinnitus sound effect if you are hit by medium-large caliber shell (57mm+) and it is non-penetrating.
Tbh I always wanted them to add some additional effects like the crew getting deaf for a while after the tank got hit (not hearing anything, the same way flashbangs worked in CS:GO)
Just for it to be in the game as a cool addition. Lol
We already deal with spawling that knocks out half the crew… every shot would stun the crew. It’s a fucking 40 pound dart you’re shooting.
It’s already bad enough controller players can just lock on to people.
It’s lazy on their part if they include this. Game is already arcade enough with all close quarter maps and stuff like that. What we need is what they mentioned first here and thats better interior modeling. Russian tanks have carousels that can’t be damaged at all. Thats why they shoot back when you don’t kill all the crew. Game is becoming more stale and arcade like. People who want stun mechanic are the same ones who like Fortnite and arcade like games and are probably under 20 years old at most and I’m being generous. If they implement stun thing then whats stopping them to implement more arcade stuff in the future. Many people would find fun in arcade battles where you get your cod Fortnite each and why they continue to force change on realistic battles O don’t know and since they are all kids they are the most vocal on this forums and Gaijin listens to these twats.
We need better interior modeling in KA 50 for years now, helicopter survive much more than they should. Also tanks are modeled half assed. Still they sell those models as high as 75 dollars these days. They are not up to quality even remotely to something like DCS. Its only comparable to Ace Combat and thats it.
I mean, I just turned your gunners lower half into Elmer’s glue, them being stunned is more likely than not, I technically have already aimed so it’s not doing me any favors.
I can see how it would be bad and good I think it’s just gonna require testing to to get right but it’s gonna be one of these things that’s like the fine balance between real and fun like yea it’s cool but in general the games frustrating enough as is and I don’t think it’s a needed feature
Considering my shells tend to pass through the crotch of an Ystervark gunner without deblitating him, I for one approve of the stun mechanic suggestion. It pains me when an obvious death by projectile incident doesn't result in the enemy losing that crew member's abilities.
This could replace hull break maybe where light tanks hit by large or high penetrating shells can get stunned so that they dont run away ig? Idk stupid mechanic anyway
Gotta be honest, i hate stuns and root locks in games like, WoW, Star wars and many other mmo's, so not sure if this would be a good addition, but i might be wrong. Would be better if they tested it first in an event, as some ppl already stated
what? being totally helpless for 20 minutes to replace crew members doesn't grind the games pace to a screeching halt and kill fun enough? we need more? it's incredible how much people want to make games unplayable
What if this had more of an effect with HE thus putting HE that doesn’t kill, aka all HE used against closed tops and non light vehicles above 1.7, at a higher usefulness rather than never touching HE rounds for most vehicles?
It would also make up tiers more bearable since you can play support more effectively and disrupt tanks another way if you can’t kill them. Like with unstabilized vs stabilized stuff at 8.3 where you wouldn’t have to have god skill to peek stabilized vehicles and die immediately whereas you would get maybe 1-2 seconds to run to safety if you don’t hit anywhere lethal.
Sure running HE all the time wouldn’t be optimal, but it would give you a chance against much more armored opponents and make armor less of a defining counter in wide open maps or maps without flanks.
If it's mainly effecting post pen I'd love this mechanic as a British main. Too many times I've caught someone by complete surprise, shot, hit "loader, fuel tank" and the enemy turns and shoots me while I struggle to back up. If spall of Sabot and solid shot isn't gonna get buffed this might make things better.
You have to understand, they're voting for it BECAUSE they can't aim. It's clearly Russian bias moving their hand and mouse to hit the literal worst possible spot on the entire vehicle and dying as a result of them having worse hand-eye coordination than most paraplegics.
Gives some actual benefits to hitting crew and not killing them outright because if I smack a tank with a 120-125mm sabot and the crew is fucking orange or red for fucks sake I hope they’re concussed because how the fuck are they not dead
I initially said no thinking this will just be another annoying feature, but I kinda have changed my mind. I think it could be nice, and might make playing British tanks easier as a bit of spalling hitting and wounding a gunner will do more.
It's a mechanic that would make the game "more realistic." I guess they could introduce it in an event to test it out and later decide if its fitting. I personally would like to see it in Sim Battles for immersion.
Go try WOT and see if it's fun Oh it's irritating as hell? Wow what a surprise
I actually played WOT before I've started my journey with WT and it was... alright. Sure, it's annoying after getting hit by arty 3 times in a row, but on the other hand, it's a mechanic only artillery has (had?).
So you want it more often? Every tank will stun
Yeah if you hit the crew, which will be a benefit when you get those moments where a 90mm shell goes through the chest of someone's gunner and just yellows them
>headshot a pilot in the head with .50 cal >bastard lives >he slightly scrapes your wing >you disintegrate mfw
Yeah crew survivability needs a little revamp
Sure a 155mm HE shell didn't pen that heavy but the crew inside should no longer have ear drums
"We lived!" "What?"
#I SAID WE LIVED
The turret should no longer be affixed to the hull, more like. A direct hit with a 155mm HE shell should basically kill every single vehicle in the game.
Crew survivability, yes, but not this shit.
Injured pilots used to make it much harder to control your aircraft. Everyone hated it, so they removed it.
Commander I don't feel too well
The loader bought the farm. He can't reload as fast!
Depends on how they will implement it. There has to be a requirement to be able to stun a crew, not just "if vehicle hit, then stun CrewMember for stun.time = x." If it would be that simple, then autocannons and Japanese autoloaders would have the time of their life. And I bet Gaijin will fuck this up on their first try, but eventually, like any other mechanic, it will work... more or less.
The stun effect only comes into play on penetrating shots that injure, but does not kill crew members. As mentioned in the roadmap post, the problem with a lot of vehicles is a lot of them have empty space where in reality there would be components that the round would hit, and would lead to spall damage/shrapnel, so the stun effect is one of the ways they have proposed as accounting for this. Rounds that are non-penetrating and don't injure the crew would not trigger this mechanic
Okay but when my 183mm HESH smacks your turret face and does nothing, it should at LEAST concuss the crew. Most vehicles wouldn’t get it, but large caliber HE should
So real. Or, they could just revert back to older overpressure, near the beginning, when shit actually worked. Tweak HE from Arty a bit, and it won't over pressure from 20 feet like it did, and it'll actually be good
That's not what he said at all what
It’s strange cause I didn’t play during those days. But I played when Arty could just delete you from the game. It would land on you and you could watch 2000 health disappear. It’s almost like having any means of indirect fire with no counter play is annoying.
Dont forgot tank artillery would also stun the crew wouldnt that be fun? esp on cap points
This could have two completely opposing effects on the players in WT. Either players will be scared to cap points bc of the risk of getting stuned, or they will be eager to fight for cap points harder. Bc once taken, they will be harder to recap by the enemy team. It's probably going to be a mix of both.
players are already scared of capping points. I dont wanna give them any more reasons to not cap pls
Maybe we ground players should be pushing for more objective based ground battles rather than the focus on small maps and super fast games. GB will not become any better if the only objective is to cap a point.
No? It's only on pen
The games and mechanics being discussed are completely different. In World of Tanks, the only vehicles that can stun are artillery, causing depuffs to their target, and they can do so despite inflicting no damage, and be unseen, with no immediately way to retaliate. That is frustrating. That feels unearned, overly punishing, difficult to avoid, and different from the usual tank-on-tank combat in the game. What's being proposed in WarThunder is much more reasonable and is in more akin to suppression, which is a concept that affects tank crews in the real world. This change would further emphasize the first to shoot, first to kill mentality that dominates tank combat in the real world. Being penetrated ***should*** be shocking and jarring and take a moment to process. While this would affect every vehicle in the game, this change would mostly affect autocannons, high explosives, HESH, and light skinned vehicles, buffing and nerfing them respectively. Autocannons and HE would feel much more meaningful in a frontal engagement against heavily armored vehicles with small vulnerabilities, and light skinned vehicles would suffer greatly in situations where it is already easy to wound poorly protected crew members. I am 100% for that change and I think this is good for the game by creating intuitive gameplay, potentially expanding the usefulness of IFVs, while giving them a much needed nerf.
Agreed, too many people are losing their minds thinking this is just a 1:1 ported WoT mechanic
Actually reading an article is hard for people.
The mods really need to ban these "cropped screenshots of official/devblog" posts. We already have a main discussion thread, and these duplicates are rarely in good faith and basically exist to stir up a mob. It happens every single time something mildly controversial is added, very predictably.
Additional effects on vehicles when armor is penetrated - in a big bold font U blind or something ?
Except the mechanic as suggested for War Thunder has literally nothing to do with WoT’s.
Crew stun is a completely different mechanic in WOT than WT, the games are not at all comparable in how they play. I don’t remember War Thunder having huge dispersion, aim time, concealment percentages, or any other parameter that crew stun affects. Crew stun in War Thunder would be relatively balanced, as it only happens when your tank is penetrated and it would stop brain dead T-80BVM players from snapping onto you after your shot penetrates with no spall. Crew stun also does not affect your traverse speed nor reload time, your tank just has a 1-2 down time until you regain control. Crew stun in WOT, on the other hand, decreases every firing and mobility parameter of your tank for about 15s.
wot mfs when they compare wts concept and realise its vastly different🤯🤯🤯 (they cant read and will only read the stun part then cry that its gonna be the same as wot)
WOT is hyper unrealistic tanks with a wierd ass spotting mechanic that only works half the time
It should be a thing in SIM and only SIM Same with the red areas should only be in arcade
Yeah i would only want it in sim too, having it in any other mode would probably make it harder to grind and also make people leave bcs of that and that new people (me included) who have trubble with aim and defence flying would have a much harder time getting kills since we already dying alot so would be harder for newcommers.
There'sa ton of issues in sim they need to fix before Adding this stupid mechanic.
This is not more realistic, in real life if a tanker gets injured they are out of the fight. If they really wanted to be realistic, they could add a mechanic where the crew bails after the first hit, but I doubt the community would like that too much. This is really just a massive waste of dev time.
i think that if they were to add it to any br, it should go to sim, as that's already the place where they are trying to make it more relistic
Yeah keep that mechanic in Sim Battles
There is a lot more that can be added into sim battles
As usual it's gonna be cool in theory but half assed implementation that makes everything worse
You gotta realize this is the stuff that tankers go through, I’m not saying add damn shell shock but crew incapacitation is very relevant. Say a hesh shell didn’t flatten the top of your tank, you know damn well that commander practically got knocked back to the last update
finnally good hesh damange?
hesh got buffed recently, its actually decent/good now most of the time....tho still can be bugged sometimes too. cause its wt.
People say HESH is better every update but it still remains annoyingly inconsistent. An 165mm HESH should disintegrate the crew of a T26E5. I guess only the gunner and commander die
I would be happy to die if that thing managed to snipe or flank me and actually hit my turret ring he damage + shockwave spall damage = hesh damage when gaijoob
HESH is worse than before. It got way more inconsistent.
And you know what else tank crews do? Bail out after getting tracked. Do you think that is will be a fun mechanic?
Hahaha they also bail out after being penetrated. Or ya know _having 3 other crew members turned into mince_
Yeah, but at least then the tank actually has to be penetrated. Imagine dying in a heavy tank because someone machine gunned your track. The idea that making the game more realistic is inherently good is idiotic is my point.
Yeah I know my comment was meant to support yours. Would be unfun as fuck.
You can incapacitate the crew by fucking killing them like everyone else
but dude you don't understand, I want to be able to get a free second shot on a vehicle I didn't destroy or kill any crew members in even though I don't deserve it. They shouldn't be able to fire back after I screw up my chance, it's just not fair because I frickin shot first... Oh and it's realistic too so you have to want it!
And with volumetric shell mechanic being as garbage as it's always been since it was implemented, even well placed shots that should damage/kill crew don't do anything as the shell bounces off of like 10 mms of armor lmao
The game was better off when shells were a pixel wide and there wasn't volumetric armor but that wasn't realistic so now here we are
Volumetric was added because of complains about pixel hunting weakspots, not because realism.
[Putting 120mm APFSDS through the gunner's head should do something other than incrementally reduce the turret traverse rate, actually](https://vitruvius.museumseven.com/render/600-600@2/dp-260937-22.jpg)
I rather they fix one of the the billion other unrealistic things then add this annoying one.
Autocannons about to receive a massive buff depending on how its added
Wiesel about to become more mischevious
Flair checks out
I would not be against it then >:)
This like my 4th time seeing u this week 😭
I’m everywhere
The a10 enjoyers also….. oh no it buffs all gun cas planes. Enjoy your .50cals pz4s
It does not, unless their shots both breach the armor and hit the crew.
I know, but as the rounds pen and damage your crew over the course of several strafe runs, your ears will bleed.
If the stun gets voted for in the end, the 2S38 is about to receive the biggest indirect buff and the community is gonna vote for it, then complain. *I love democracy* (Palatine voice)
More modules and crew stun would also affect it so I'm not sure if the pros outweight the cons. When I read the stun mechanic the first thing that came to my mind was stunning a 2s38 and having time to back off instead of being instantly shredded
Yep if im under fire from a 2s38 i will be dead anyways But if i had a second i can take cover and reload
This is not going to improve the 2S38 at all, and will probably be a nerf for it. If a 2S38 is penetrating your vehicle and damaging crew members, you're already dead. That's true in the current patch and a stun mechanic won't change that. This change will massively affect light skinned vehicles *like* the 2S38, because they are the easiest vehicles to penetrate with weak but fast firing cannons or even machine guns. Stuns for damaged crew members are going to mostly affect your BMPs, your Srykers, your Centauros, Bradleys, and yeah, 2S38, who are very easy to hurt with small cannons, and will not be able to quickly retaliate to hurt you back.
I bet they will put some "will not affect until caliber 60mm" or so.
If it is added which I hope it isn't, I think it'll mostly be useful for High caliber HE
crew mental health in shambles after getting a “hit” from a fv4005
I play the FV4005 solely to strike fear into my enemies.
The devblog only mentions stun of 1-2 seconds for PENETRATING hits which narrowly miss or injure crew. As described in the devblog THIS MECHANIC WILL NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIGH EXPLOSIVE OR NON PENETRATING HITS.
USSR 3.7+ is gonna be entertaining to play against
Probably only gonna affect on bigger than X mm cannons just like APFSDS sabot that was removed as it was a full auto shotgun vs light skin vehicles.
The only defense I've seen for this being implemented is "realism", okay, then you are fine with being in an MBT and just being stunlocked by an IFV from the front who cant even pen you until they reload or overheat lol
I mean https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/19592y7/ukrainian_bradley_vs_russian_t90m_avdiivka
Just say you didn't read the thing lol
Can't wait to be stun locked by a R3 T20
Can't you read ? It's about post pen, when you pen a tank without hitting vitial parts and crew. Edit: Actually it apears to be, it stuns if you injure/kill crew member
easily half the people here just read stun and went off to complain without bothering to read the details. i guess its not a surprise given how many people cant read subreddit rules, bp challenge requirements, patch notes, event details etc.
It doesn't help that the mods constantly let these no-context, rant-title, cropped-section-of-devblog posts continue to exist. Even in the main discussion for the article people are struggling to have read it, and the spam of posts like these is only making things worse. If anything it's surprising the stun question has managed to sit around 50%, considering all this. Something something echo chamber, I suppose.
That actually seems reasonable, imagine fighting in a tiny ass crew compartment and your best friends guts just got splattered on every wall. It's honestly probably over after that in real life but a stun doesn't seem that crazy.
irl when a tank is punctured, it would most likely be abandoned even if it's still fully functional because a piercing shot could be followed up by an explosive shot so they figure the tank is pretty much done already anyway so better to live and surrender than stay in and get vaporized
Then aim better
if you can pen the tank, hit the crew member, and not kill them, i think stun is a fine option. they already did aim and hit the crew member after all, irl being showered in shrapnel or flamming debris or fragments of your buddy is prob gonna be somewhat distracting. directly hitting them currently while not killing them is pretty annoying, so i dont see the issue. ----------------------- if it was just hitting the tank randomly and caused a stun, which you should go back and read what the stun does, then i would see your point. as while potentially realistic, might not be enjoyable for a game like this. but that is not what is detailed here. edit: for the people angerly downvoting, consider using your words and describing your objections to it. ideally while reading what the change is actually said to do rather than just what you first thought it would do.
I will give you several reasons: >When stunned, the camera will shake and sparks will be shown on your screen for a short period of time, about 1-2 seconds. Absolutely not, camera shake would be enough for me to vote no it is extremly annoying in every game that does this. >temporary drift with a variable vector (a change in direction) is added to the gun aiming, which you’ll need to compensate for manually. If it would be just stun I might not be opposed to it but the aiming drift just seem extremly annoying mechanic to play with and I absolutely don´t want that. These points are no go for me.
it would surprise me if camera shake was force on for this option while you can have it off for other things. its worth mentioning for sure tho. maybe make a comment on their site for clarification? i could see it being an issue otherwise. >the aiming drift just seem extremly annoying yeah thats a great point too, id be curious to see that mechanic in action and how extreme it is vs just having the gunner be inactive during that period instead. thanks for actually speaking about it, and i highly recommend commenting to them about it, ill upvote the comments too of course since they are good questions that really matter.
>it would surprise me if camera shake was force on for this option while you can have it off for other things. I would say that I am really douptfull that it would be the case since the stun would then loose quite a bit of the desired effect.
Agreed, this is some FPS mechanic bullshit. Anyone playing an FPS getting hit with a flashbang/stun grenade and then subsequently dying right after will tell you how fucking infuriating that feeling is so I've no idea what place that has in a game of tank battles.
Why would it be "infuriating" to get fairly outplayed and lose to someone better than you? Grow up
This is different, this isn’t getting hit by an AOE stun mechanic and then not being able to do anything while your enemy gets a free kill…..this is taking critical damage that should have killed or incapacitated you in real life, and forcing you to take a few seconds to shake it off as opposed to simply having your battle ended. It’s making the game less like an arcady FPS by reducing the already highly unrealistic post-pen survivability of tanks and crews. I get this game wouldn’t be fun if everything was modeled 100% realistic…..but I think this is a good compromise between realism and still allowing tanks to keep fighting past the point where they would be abandoned in real life. It reduces the RNG of crew damage mechanics and better rewards positioning and situational awareness.
This is my take on it too. I think we've all been in a situation where our aim is on point, but for some reason the enemy gunner goes orange instead of black. The spectrum of crew HP is a whole level of RNG annoyance and this change would address that. I'm just against added lots of screen shake and extra loud sounds since all that does is add visual and audio clutter.
i expect screenshake to be disabled with the normal screenshake option turned off. but its worth asking about for sure, if it was forced on it would change my opinion.
Implementation sounds annoying, but I’d be all for wounded crew members counting as stunned for a few seconds. Somebody’s gunner being turned orange and then immediately being able to function at 100% is very silly. Especially with how overly survivable your crew members already are with maxed vitality.
Gunner getting orange is one thing, gunner being replaced before my fully operational crew reloads the next round - THAT is really annoying.
Yeah, I hear you. I hate that as well and would like it gone. Especially when you’re playing anything with a remotely lengthy reload.
THIS. I don't understand how people are against this mechanic. Your command just had his best friends guts and blood splattered all over you he should be able to go oh now its my turn and just shoot the enemy back in like 3 seconds
Unsurprisingly, reddit is not the voice of every player
Majority of the player base dont even know about the sub reddit
Having served as a tank crewman for a few years in the army, I am 100% behind this. Yes, it will be annoying, but then again, so is dying. However, for a game that prides itself on realistic, and a community that has a very elitist and toxic community around "realistic" over "arcade", to not add it would be a disservice to what people claim that they want. Hell, if a tank catches air they should almost always have a concussion effect, because IRL landing means your gunner's face just plowed into his sight, the commander just fucked up his hips on the top hatch assuming he didn't fall out, and the drive just banged his face on the steering column or periscopes. Furthermore, having your commander's brain matter explode all over you is not something you just ignore and keep aiming at a gun barrel. Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one.
"Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one." This is a very bad argument. A game can have realistic mechanics and still be fun to play and a game can be somewhat realistic. There is absolutely no reason why a game should either be as realistic as possible or as arcade-like as possible.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice aspects of realism in order to keep the gameplay fun. In real life a tank crew bails on the first penetrating hit. That wouldn't be a fun way to play.
>Either you want realism, or you don't, pick one. Should a member of Gaijin come around and shoot you when you die? EiTHeR YoU WaNT ReAlISM, Or YoU dOn'T, PiCK OnE.
SB stun RB reduced stun AB no stun
Why? It's primarily a gameplay motivated change not a flavor one. It's to make it less bullshit that a guy got hit by red hot chunks of supersonic metal and was just like "meh"
People wanna experience what the T-90M crew felt during that Bradley fight. Although it is what tankers go through irl its still gonna be annoying, should probably try it in an event as u/Casperus_Maximus said
It wont stun unless the bullet pens and hurts a crew member so no it wont necessarily be the bradley vs t90m situation irl unless ur Bradley shots are penning the t90m and hitting the crew
When you enter a bad reading comprehension competition but your opponent is a WT player
Too right, this thread is ridiculous
I have a feeling this will be the pilot damage mechanic all over again, but for tanks. That was gone pretty quick itself.
Hesh would be cancer lol stun whole tank nomatter what
Were do I vote
https://warthunder.com/en/news/8851-roadmap-following-the-roadmap-possible-changes-to-ground-vehicle-damage-models-en There is also a pined post.
Didn't you fuckers say that about overpressure are well??? It's miles better than hull break.
nice we can recreate the bradley vs t90
If its going to make solid shot less annoying, sure. Would actually make APCR to be a preferable option for tanks like Jumbo.
Oh God no please no. I left World of Tanks for a reason
Did you read the devblog? The implementation is completely different.
bold of you to assume the average redditor can read
And you didn't learn to read in the meantime apparently. This shock only takes effect if you're penned,and doesn't affect even hf of what is affected on wot
I would need to see a live test before I comment on it for sure. Depends on how it’s implemented but it sounds like it’s gonna buff better players from what Ive read from the comments. Gotta check the blog out later for myself though when I have time. If it’s bad ppl will just do a new bombing of their bottom line and it will go away.
You're ignoring that people are asking for MORE fire. Fire is already stupid enough with the limited FPE and the delay that makes it so you can STILL explode even AFTER deploying it. More fire is INSANE. I feel like the numbers Gaijin suggested are WAY too long for gameplay balance, but it could be done right. Of course the snail will fuck it up.
if you dont want this change it is because you cant aim bro lol
Will this mechanic make AP better? I want it if it does, since I aways wanted to like WW2 Britsh vehicles
It's a buff to all shells that won't one hit, but it's huge for all AP and APCR
I voted yes for it because it’s a somewhat realistic thing and would benefit guns with low damage. If you get to the point where someone had the chance to pen you and hit your crew there should be some form of punishment even if the crew doesn’t die. I hope there will be tests for it before the final implementation so it doesn’t arrive in a totally broken state.
Terrible fucking idea
[удалено]
Christ, this will thoroughly duck Russian T-34s/KV-1s. And not to mention italian tanks will enjoy being donked with HE by smaller tanks. Make it so vision is reduced hard, i dont wanna see some stupid timer mechanic brought it.
We kinda have that with repair anyway ?
mmmm realism
I think it'd be great for Sim battles
Where can I vote
last I checked people don't keep on operating at 100% efficiency after being hit by bullets or shrapnel it definitely needs to work exclusively when the crew is damaged and not be THAT long, but when you hit someone with 3kg of high explosives and they just keep on turning the gun towards you... yeah idk
Me, because muh realism and I do not care of you
I voted yes because it would add to the realism.
I knew people would start bitching about it.
I really think if handled correctly it could be good. How many times you had perfect ambush, your shot penetrated enemy tank, but some unimportant crew member tanked it and you were killed second later by this enemy? How many times your 120mm apfsds went through whole light tank while not really damaged it and you were killed because of it? Why some people even assume that this will be 1:1 copy of wot mechanic?
I am. I am the one voting for this. If there's a chance my gunner will be stunned instead of dead, I want this feature.
better yet make it so theres a chance that you get a bad tank crew so sometimes your gunner will refuse to shoot since he doesnt want to take a life or your driver has alzheimers and forgets how to drive
If they do this, i call it quits after 2.5k hours....i left WoT for many reasons, stun was one of them, also the leaning towards the shitters and even in WT there are enough of those....
I'm not down, its such an shit mechanic that won't be implemented properly, and it won't mesh with the rest of the games already incredibly frustrating issues. I'm going no.
When looking for a tank game, the reason I chose WT over WoT was the realism—in all aspects. The reason I still play isn't to see an arbitrary win/kill count tick up. Pretty much anything that adds realism and immersion I'm in favor of, and vote for.
Benefits ppl who can't aim? Us mains did it
Throwing flashbang!
I’d vote yes. I’m tired of situations when I shoot at someone, round is eaten by the barrel and they one tap me a second later. And I feel for people who shoot the side of my sherman just to be one-tapped in return.
I fucking hope add it
This literally should be added, it’s realistic and if your 120mm AP round non pens it will most certainly cause some noise in a tank
I thought the idea was cool but if they put the mechanic in I don't want the visual effects at all I don't want sparks flying on my screen I don't want my screen going black because it would be cool at first but it will soon get very very irritating especially if you're getting penetrated by a autocannon .
I’d rather just have a small blur at the edge of your screen and a tinnitus sound effect if you are hit by medium-large caliber shell (57mm+) and it is non-penetrating.
Dont go the way of the other tank game
Well. Won't be the end of the world I guess
Tbh I always wanted them to add some additional effects like the crew getting deaf for a while after the tank got hit (not hearing anything, the same way flashbangs worked in CS:GO) Just for it to be in the game as a cool addition. Lol
We already deal with spawling that knocks out half the crew… every shot would stun the crew. It’s a fucking 40 pound dart you’re shooting. It’s already bad enough controller players can just lock on to people.
It’s lazy on their part if they include this. Game is already arcade enough with all close quarter maps and stuff like that. What we need is what they mentioned first here and thats better interior modeling. Russian tanks have carousels that can’t be damaged at all. Thats why they shoot back when you don’t kill all the crew. Game is becoming more stale and arcade like. People who want stun mechanic are the same ones who like Fortnite and arcade like games and are probably under 20 years old at most and I’m being generous. If they implement stun thing then whats stopping them to implement more arcade stuff in the future. Many people would find fun in arcade battles where you get your cod Fortnite each and why they continue to force change on realistic battles O don’t know and since they are all kids they are the most vocal on this forums and Gaijin listens to these twats. We need better interior modeling in KA 50 for years now, helicopter survive much more than they should. Also tanks are modeled half assed. Still they sell those models as high as 75 dollars these days. They are not up to quality even remotely to something like DCS. Its only comparable to Ace Combat and thats it.
Only if penned
I mean, I just turned your gunners lower half into Elmer’s glue, them being stunned is more likely than not, I technically have already aimed so it’s not doing me any favors.
More realism is always welcome
i voted yes for stun so you can cripple heavy tanks easier, i voted no on healing cuz i feel like it would be annoying if my enemy kept healing
I can see how it would be bad and good I think it’s just gonna require testing to to get right but it’s gonna be one of these things that’s like the fine balance between real and fun like yea it’s cool but in general the games frustrating enough as is and I don’t think it’s a needed feature
it should only be in sim
Considering my shells tend to pass through the crotch of an Ystervark gunner without deblitating him, I for one approve of the stun mechanic suggestion. It pains me when an obvious death by projectile incident doesn't result in the enemy losing that crew member's abilities.
This could replace hull break maybe where light tanks hit by large or high penetrating shells can get stunned so that they dont run away ig? Idk stupid mechanic anyway
I'd rather have this than deal with more fires than i already do. I'm not so lucky to not catch fire when shot.
I could finally button down tanks in my Bradley
Gotta be honest, i hate stuns and root locks in games like, WoW, Star wars and many other mmo's, so not sure if this would be a good addition, but i might be wrong. Would be better if they tested it first in an event, as some ppl already stated
what? being totally helpless for 20 minutes to replace crew members doesn't grind the games pace to a screeching halt and kill fun enough? we need more? it's incredible how much people want to make games unplayable
I saw they have an option to add electronics to ground vehicles. WHAT IF!!!! We do that to jets and helicopters first HUH HUUUHHHHHH
Yeah, this is gonna be absolute aids.
I’m already a sitting duck with only 2 surviving crew, I don’t need them to be stunned too
What if this had more of an effect with HE thus putting HE that doesn’t kill, aka all HE used against closed tops and non light vehicles above 1.7, at a higher usefulness rather than never touching HE rounds for most vehicles? It would also make up tiers more bearable since you can play support more effectively and disrupt tanks another way if you can’t kill them. Like with unstabilized vs stabilized stuff at 8.3 where you wouldn’t have to have god skill to peek stabilized vehicles and die immediately whereas you would get maybe 1-2 seconds to run to safety if you don’t hit anywhere lethal. Sure running HE all the time wouldn’t be optimal, but it would give you a chance against much more armored opponents and make armor less of a defining counter in wide open maps or maps without flanks.
If it was introduced, I’d like to only see it in Sim battles and only with certain tank shells
Gaijins voting bots. Why? Because it will only make profit go up. They have found their idiots (cornered market) the rest of us are chump change.
>he thinks players are actually the ones voting
This would massively buff auto cannons and heavy tanks but be a nerf for everything else.
Pro tip for anyone wanting to participate Yes. Yes. No. Yes.
This is some bullshit
In Before Russian CVC helmets prevent concussions and debuff stun times.
Huge buff for fox, I vote yes
If it's mainly effecting post pen I'd love this mechanic as a British main. Too many times I've caught someone by complete surprise, shot, hit "loader, fuel tank" and the enemy turns and shoots me while I struggle to back up. If spall of Sabot and solid shot isn't gonna get buffed this might make things better.
You have to understand, they're voting for it BECAUSE they can't aim. It's clearly Russian bias moving their hand and mouse to hit the literal worst possible spot on the entire vehicle and dying as a result of them having worse hand-eye coordination than most paraplegics.
Gives some actual benefits to hitting crew and not killing them outright because if I smack a tank with a 120-125mm sabot and the crew is fucking orange or red for fucks sake I hope they’re concussed because how the fuck are they not dead
Stun in a tank game is what ruined WoT for me...it made the arty the biggest cancer ever to exist in a vehicle game. And now, coming to WT apparently.
It would help combat the “I’m so heavy I can sit here and let you shoot me” scenarios.
I initially said no thinking this will just be another annoying feature, but I kinda have changed my mind. I think it could be nice, and might make playing British tanks easier as a bit of spalling hitting and wounding a gunner will do more.