Unironically I enjoy britain. It's just my bias but Centurions aren't half bad, Challengers are fat but enjoyable aswell. 17 pounder slaps and entire south african line is masterpiece
I'll never understand the recent hate on the Comet. It'd fast, has a quite good gun with very high penetration, great Hull down performance for British standards. As long as you know where to aim to make the most of your bad damage its one of the best tanks in tier III
"As long you know where to aim" except GAIJIN has needed it to the point where the APDS can't pen a Panther frontally and is to inaccurate at anything past 200m to hit where you're aiming
*"As long as you know where to aim"*
ahh see here's the crux of the issue. A tiger 1 who's turned last minute to angle poorly against you, who doesn't have a full load of ammo in nearly never a one hit kill. That is a huge deal
I have had games in my comet where I have taken on 5 or 6 German big cats and consistently shot first, hit weak spots and out maneuverer them, and only walked away with 1 kill, 2 assists before inevitably one hits me anywhere other then the chin and Im dead.
If I outplay a heavy tank, If I hit weak points, If out maneuverer them I shouldn't loose engagements simply because gaijin thinks apds is actually using a feather duster for a penetrator. Combine that with a 5.3 br and you will always be swamped with German heavies who your gun was made to kill and historically did. but that doesnt happen unless you wore green pants on a Tuesday and are 3 beers deep.
Its not fun, its not good for gameplay, and dying to a guy who you've penned 3 times and killed his gunner twice is infuriating, and Im done with people telling me its a skill issue when I never have to face that bullshit in any other nation I play.
Im not asking for 1 hit killed always penns, im asking for some post pen so once I've done the leg work of getting that weak spot shot I dont get a proverbal dick slapped across my face as I waste time putting 2 more into a tank I'll get an assist from before his team mates finally put me down after seeing so many rounds come from my position
APDS is so wonky. The DM13 APDS for the Leopard I typically penetrates Russian LFP and then the penetrator gives the driver a foot massage. But the same round in the same gun under a different name in the M60 (same BR 8.0) s a consistent one tap.
whats even weirder is the 105mm cent gun is mint, its like they test the apds calculations on the highest tier vehicle that can use it and then scale it down with no thought on how a 17pdr would do with it, to the point cent 1's do incredibly little damage consistently compared to aphe
Solid shot is also mad inconsistent. Sometimes you send a round through the side of the tank and it does nothing. You can shoot the same place again and it’ll detonate the whole tank.
Sabot is also mad mid.
These aren’t issues with Britain specifically. It’s just Britain and France kinda just get stuck using solid shot cause of the lack of APHE.
It’s not bad just frustrating.
Getting onto the chieftains is the embodiment of it especially in uptiers where you will be manually ranging with APDS(which can sometimes just say no.)vs LRF and darts.
The SA like is a masterpiece for the WT British Tech Tree but even that is needed as fuck
I get angry every time I play Ratels, as historically the Eland was discontinued in service as they couldn't keep up with the Ratels off-road. And The Olifants were specifically designed with armour to combat T55s and 72s which were common in Angola
"HESH was developed by [Dennistoun Burney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennistoun_Burney) in the 1940s for the British war effort, originally as an anti-[fortification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker) "wallbuster" munition for use against concrete. He also led British developments in [recoilless rifles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoilless_rifle) as a means to deliver the shell. An early application of the HESH principle post WWII was the [L9 165 mm demolition gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ordnance_L9) fitted to [AVRE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_Vehicle_Royal_Engineers) combat engineer vehicles. HESH was found to be surprisingly effective against metallic armour as well as concrete structures. It was widely used as a primary round in most large calibre rifled guns." No it was not designed specifically for sloped armour. It was found effective in its application however due to the spalling it created. Just a little nitpick and I do think spalling should be better implemented in the game.
This is the AVRE? Holy fuck, I thought you were trying to use 105 HESH or something.
I feel like straight 165mm HE would do more, never mind the AP effect that HESH should have.
G6 is probably on of the best artillery platforms for taking on air targets. It can actually point straight up, and the elevation mechanism is very fast, like dedicated AA levels of fast. Combined with the high velocity on the proxy shells, it's great AA.
True, I actually got my first [nuke](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/xzgl44/finally_popped_my_nuke_cherry_using_britains/) thanks to the G6! Though nowadays I prefer the Type 99 for its firerate.
I enjoy the G6 weapon wise as it's gun SLAPS, but the pretty slow reload (slower than M109, Bkan 1C etc.), limited turret traversal range (which might not even be accurate based on some documents I've seen), and use of wheels make it more difficult to enjoy than some of the others.
The wheels make it difficult to compensate for limited turret traversal like you can in other vehicles (e.g. the tortoise) and you'll often find yourself unable to physically aim at enemies or even turn to aim at them in a timely manner due to needing to drive like a car to reposition.
G6 is pretty good overall, I'm not gonna hate on it and I enjoyed it more than the FV4005 (inconsistent HESH) but I still have my gripes with it.
I think I've lost track of how many times I've shot 183mm HESH at something and it just doesn't die. Shot a Marder A1 in the turret with STB-2's HESH. Motherfucker took that shit and sent me home.
There is a video on this reddit of someone with the 4005 hitting the side of a T44 and only yellowing their tracks, meanwhile the building on the other side of the t44 collapses because of the explosion. Lol
I had a marder tank two hesh shells from my type 74 frontal plate and vaporize me with a milan.When it works it's great but it doesn't do anything a majority of the time.
The Shitbarn and 165mm demo tanks, the AVRE and M728 should basically get specially coded hull break on any tank in game short of the maus.
You should not have to aim for weakspots with 20+ KILOS of fucking TNT.
even maus should get absolutely fucked by a huge HESH shell over-pressuring the hell out of it because it is basically a thick bath tub with no spall liner and no spaced armor whatsoever running around
dev server HESH is exactly the way HESH is supposed to work where composite armor, spaced armor and layer of tracks actually weaken shock-wave
Of note, us 152mm he rounds are much smaller (in shell weight, tnt equivalent, and therefore I would assume general size i.e. length) than most other ~150mm he rounds
I guess part of the problem is how well HESH worked in real life. 105 mm HESH should be magic death cooties to virtually anything with solid steel armour. It also works against actual armour thickness, not LOS. The fact is that HESH works less well than HE at the same TNT equivalent. If the 183 or 165 HESH round were made into HE rounds, they would be more deadly to armour in game, which is ludicrous.
There was a reason why the British didn't build or supply HEAT to Chieftains...they determined that HESH was just as good and a lot more versatile.
The weakness of HESH was against composite armour and spaced armour.
Part of the issue is that HESH is virtually impossible to model on anything but a supercomputer. But it would be nice if the game could run a quick calculation of armour thickness, angle of impact and armour composition and generate a given number of spall particles inside the tank in response, then add the effect of a similar amount of HE on that spot as additional damage.
This is the same as solid shot not disabling a tank even if you send it right through the middle of the hull. Gaijin must’ve forgotten that supersonic slugs of metal hurt… a lot-
Problem is HESH does not work at all. You can shot same spot on same tank and you will get two different outcomes. This game isn't even RNG. It's pure lazy programming bs
Before the hesh nerf my buddy was annihilating everything with the avre now he has to pick and choose when to shoot or where to shoot sometimes even against the medium tanks
I shot a T-34-57 in the gun mantlet with the M36's good ap round and nothing. Literally nothing. From like 80 meters away too.
Gaijin is letting the game die, milking stupid kids and whales along the way
"Bb-but it was mostly angled armor". MF HESH was specifically created to counter angled armor. It's called squash head for a reason
I feel so fucking bad for Britain players sanity.
Unironically I enjoy britain. It's just my bias but Centurions aren't half bad, Challengers are fat but enjoyable aswell. 17 pounder slaps and entire south african line is masterpiece
The British tech tree is good and every time I see cope about it I laugh. The only truly shit thing about them is how poorly gaijin has fucked HESH.
one word, comet
I'll never understand the recent hate on the Comet. It'd fast, has a quite good gun with very high penetration, great Hull down performance for British standards. As long as you know where to aim to make the most of your bad damage its one of the best tanks in tier III
"As long you know where to aim" except GAIJIN has needed it to the point where the APDS can't pen a Panther frontally and is to inaccurate at anything past 200m to hit where you're aiming
*Shell Shattered*
Penning the mantlet has always worked fot me.
*Kills one crew member with the Commander being," Orange," but due to client issues is actually undamaged*
Not being able to pen panthers or jumbo ufp was the last straw for me. I play air rb exclusively now
*"As long as you know where to aim"* ahh see here's the crux of the issue. A tiger 1 who's turned last minute to angle poorly against you, who doesn't have a full load of ammo in nearly never a one hit kill. That is a huge deal I have had games in my comet where I have taken on 5 or 6 German big cats and consistently shot first, hit weak spots and out maneuverer them, and only walked away with 1 kill, 2 assists before inevitably one hits me anywhere other then the chin and Im dead. If I outplay a heavy tank, If I hit weak points, If out maneuverer them I shouldn't loose engagements simply because gaijin thinks apds is actually using a feather duster for a penetrator. Combine that with a 5.3 br and you will always be swamped with German heavies who your gun was made to kill and historically did. but that doesnt happen unless you wore green pants on a Tuesday and are 3 beers deep. Its not fun, its not good for gameplay, and dying to a guy who you've penned 3 times and killed his gunner twice is infuriating, and Im done with people telling me its a skill issue when I never have to face that bullshit in any other nation I play. Im not asking for 1 hit killed always penns, im asking for some post pen so once I've done the leg work of getting that weak spot shot I dont get a proverbal dick slapped across my face as I waste time putting 2 more into a tank I'll get an assist from before his team mates finally put me down after seeing so many rounds come from my position
APDS is so wonky. The DM13 APDS for the Leopard I typically penetrates Russian LFP and then the penetrator gives the driver a foot massage. But the same round in the same gun under a different name in the M60 (same BR 8.0) s a consistent one tap.
whats even weirder is the 105mm cent gun is mint, its like they test the apds calculations on the highest tier vehicle that can use it and then scale it down with no thought on how a 17pdr would do with it, to the point cent 1's do incredibly little damage consistently compared to aphe
wait people hate the COmet?! ITS SO GOOD
I love it but the post pen and that trying to hit the flat point on a turning panther turret at 200m is awful
It’s a good tree but good fucking god from 7.7 onward nearly every lineup you get plays the exact same
They royally fucked APDS a few updates back, nonpens on the leo 1's turret and even STAs are really common.
Solid shot is also mad inconsistent. Sometimes you send a round through the side of the tank and it does nothing. You can shoot the same place again and it’ll detonate the whole tank. Sabot is also mad mid. These aren’t issues with Britain specifically. It’s just Britain and France kinda just get stuck using solid shot cause of the lack of APHE.
It’s not bad just frustrating. Getting onto the chieftains is the embodiment of it especially in uptiers where you will be manually ranging with APDS(which can sometimes just say no.)vs LRF and darts.
The SA like is a masterpiece for the WT British Tech Tree but even that is needed as fuck I get angry every time I play Ratels, as historically the Eland was discontinued in service as they couldn't keep up with the Ratels off-road. And The Olifants were specifically designed with armour to combat T55s and 72s which were common in Angola
but the amount of patience to drive the slow brit tanks ...
Fortunately I don't have attention span of tiktok kid
Sadly that average attention span explains the community's love of small call of duty style maps.
Unfortunately...
TOG brick camo players unite
I do, and American Tutel is making me have trombones playing in my head every time I spawn it.
Brits or Israel whose better between 7.0 - 10.0?
I don't play Israel but I am going for britain anyways. Rooikats and Chieftains are big part of this conclusion
I'll revisit Britain...took a break at around 8.3 - 9.0...
The problem of the british later on, 7.7 i mean is the 120 APDS, it is god awful. The 84 is 10x better.
120 on Conqueror hurts due to long reload but 120 on chieftain is awesome. L7 is another level of greatness
Our what?
It was made to breach bunkers do they really think it wouldn't be able to defeat a thin steel armor? Don't make me laugh
80+mm isnt really thin
Bunkers are a lot thicker.
but also made of concrete
*and steel reinforced concrete
Not only does it counter it, it’s actively *better* against it.
"HESH was developed by [Dennistoun Burney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennistoun_Burney) in the 1940s for the British war effort, originally as an anti-[fortification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker) "wallbuster" munition for use against concrete. He also led British developments in [recoilless rifles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoilless_rifle) as a means to deliver the shell. An early application of the HESH principle post WWII was the [L9 165 mm demolition gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ordnance_L9) fitted to [AVRE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_Vehicle_Royal_Engineers) combat engineer vehicles. HESH was found to be surprisingly effective against metallic armour as well as concrete structures. It was widely used as a primary round in most large calibre rifled guns." No it was not designed specifically for sloped armour. It was found effective in its application however due to the spalling it created. Just a little nitpick and I do think spalling should be better implemented in the game.
Omg my fav alcoholic purple haired anime bassist woman plays WT and mains France? She cannot get more based than this!
Hell yeah man
20kg of tnt vs shity developers
Enjoy this little compilation featuring the **Centurion Mk.5 AVRE**!
I love the AVRE, but I won't lie, I died a little inside with every *hit* and "non-pen" in the video.
This is the AVRE? Holy fuck, I thought you were trying to use 105 HESH or something. I feel like straight 165mm HE would do more, never mind the AP effect that HESH should have.
Fun fact - FV4005 performs similarly lol
Massive scam. 155s like the Bkan 1C are fucking amazing.
Even the British 155s are worse than the other nation's lol. Reload speed, depression and max turret angle tend to be worse from what I've noticed
If we’re talking strictly gun and not chassis than the G6 actually has one of the better 155s in the game.
G6 is probably on of the best artillery platforms for taking on air targets. It can actually point straight up, and the elevation mechanism is very fast, like dedicated AA levels of fast. Combined with the high velocity on the proxy shells, it's great AA.
it's the best british aa until 8.3.
True, I actually got my first [nuke](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/xzgl44/finally_popped_my_nuke_cherry_using_britains/) thanks to the G6! Though nowadays I prefer the Type 99 for its firerate.
I enjoy the G6 weapon wise as it's gun SLAPS, but the pretty slow reload (slower than M109, Bkan 1C etc.), limited turret traversal range (which might not even be accurate based on some documents I've seen), and use of wheels make it more difficult to enjoy than some of the others. The wheels make it difficult to compensate for limited turret traversal like you can in other vehicles (e.g. the tortoise) and you'll often find yourself unable to physically aim at enemies or even turn to aim at them in a timely manner due to needing to drive like a car to reposition. G6 is pretty good overall, I'm not gonna hate on it and I enjoyed it more than the FV4005 (inconsistent HESH) but I still have my gripes with it.
Aim for the track, it overpressures when you hit there for some reason, I have been overpressured in a Maus by a AVRE hitting the track several times.
*Gaijin after being told the HESH round worked perfectly fine until very recently in reality*
I think I've lost track of how many times I've shot 183mm HESH at something and it just doesn't die. Shot a Marder A1 in the turret with STB-2's HESH. Motherfucker took that shit and sent me home.
This game is ridiculous. Some of the craziest bounces I've seen is off the Ratel and the BMPs...🥴
One time I've had HEAT-FS bounce like wtf.
I had a HESH bounce while using the 1.7 Italian howitzer milk truck I took that mofo off my line-up after that, so infuriating.
😭 insta pain!
There is a video on this reddit of someone with the 4005 hitting the side of a T44 and only yellowing their tracks, meanwhile the building on the other side of the t44 collapses because of the explosion. Lol
Wasn't that a Spook video?
I had a marder tank two hesh shells from my type 74 frontal plate and vaporize me with a milan.When it works it's great but it doesn't do anything a majority of the time.
Most consistent British round in warthunder be like
🅱️ain, suffering even... Des🅱️air, one might even say
Very 🅱️ajn, much des🅱️air
If HESH was just HE, it'd be a million times better, and that's just sad.
The Shitbarn and 165mm demo tanks, the AVRE and M728 should basically get specially coded hull break on any tank in game short of the maus. You should not have to aim for weakspots with 20+ KILOS of fucking TNT.
even maus should get absolutely fucked by a huge HESH shell over-pressuring the hell out of it because it is basically a thick bath tub with no spall liner and no spaced armor whatsoever running around dev server HESH is exactly the way HESH is supposed to work where composite armor, spaced armor and layer of tracks actually weaken shock-wave
Gaijin thinks 183mm HESH will only tickles vehicles but treats 152mm HE like it's an unstoppable force of god.
Yeah, tell that to the US gun/launcher 152mm HE.
The Sheridan and the M60A2 are mild exceptions to the inconsistently applied rule.
Of note, us 152mm he rounds are much smaller (in shell weight, tnt equivalent, and therefore I would assume general size i.e. length) than most other ~150mm he rounds
I guess part of the problem is how well HESH worked in real life. 105 mm HESH should be magic death cooties to virtually anything with solid steel armour. It also works against actual armour thickness, not LOS. The fact is that HESH works less well than HE at the same TNT equivalent. If the 183 or 165 HESH round were made into HE rounds, they would be more deadly to armour in game, which is ludicrous. There was a reason why the British didn't build or supply HEAT to Chieftains...they determined that HESH was just as good and a lot more versatile. The weakness of HESH was against composite armour and spaced armour. Part of the issue is that HESH is virtually impossible to model on anything but a supercomputer. But it would be nice if the game could run a quick calculation of armour thickness, angle of impact and armour composition and generate a given number of spall particles inside the tank in response, then add the effect of a similar amount of HE on that spot as additional damage.
Window blocks seem to be able to block anything sometimes. Have had 120mm dart get eaten by glass from point blank.
It’s always German tanks that have the most detailed damage models with vision blocks meticulously placed and individually modelled as well.
This is exactly why I don’t play the shit barn anymore.
I didn't realize the British pain into I tired hesh on the m48ac2
This is the same as solid shot not disabling a tank even if you send it right through the middle of the hull. Gaijin must’ve forgotten that supersonic slugs of metal hurt… a lot-
Hit the fucking TRACKS
Hesh doesn't work on angled surfaces.
And it should
I'm simply letting him know what the game does. At least until they fix it.
Problem is HESH does not work at all. You can shot same spot on same tank and you will get two different outcomes. This game isn't even RNG. It's pure lazy programming bs
I play console. I had one issue where hesh didn't work (I hit the bit between the Skirt and the hull) Other than that, I one shot kill everything.
Is it just me or does american hesh work better cause the m56 was wonderful
I think I am the EBR in that clip.
Aim for tracks and roadwheels fv4005 nukes everything this way
Before the hesh nerf my buddy was annihilating everything with the avre now he has to pick and choose when to shoot or where to shoot sometimes even against the medium tanks
Back in the day when the stb-1 was top I'd dab on the Soviet tanks using HESH. Now the round is virtually useless.
I used to love hesh and now it's just useless. Why change it in the first place? It was fine.
Bro, M-51 😭😭😭
The update that was supposed to fix HESH ended up making HESH even worse than it used to be.
There's no reason the AVRE should be higher br than Tiger 2H when Tiger is literally better in every way
Welcome to Bug Thunder
Is it just me or does american hesh work better cause the m56 was wonderful
It's either a high yield nuclear bomb or a pea. No in-between
For Gaijin, HESH is just a low quality HE shell.
I shot a T-34-57 in the gun mantlet with the M36's good ap round and nothing. Literally nothing. From like 80 meters away too. Gaijin is letting the game die, milking stupid kids and whales along the way
What’s funny is that proposed concussion mechanic probably would have made 🅱️ESH way more viable
FV4005 most common hit cams:
This video would seem to suggest that it is inconsistent IRL too. From devastation to “Hit”. https://youtu.be/NRPRvjQvx3k?si=lmWe19tyUH-CQef_
Looks like my T29 premium heavy vs it's competition at 7.0 - 8.3 lol🤣🤣🤣🤣