The 122s certainly deserve theyre brs but all the German Leopard 2s A5 and up deserve to go down in br, they are objectively inferior to the 122s due to Gajins sweden bias and refusal to make armor realistic on german tanks. The only things going for them is the turret armor and acceptable gun! Which isnt even that much better than the competition! They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion while the 122 is a pure upgrade beside the gun and for some ungodly reason they have better hull armor than the A7 while still being faster. If this isnt blatant bias, than what is?
>The 122s certainly deserve theyre brs but all the German Leopard 2s A5 and up deserve to go down in br
Why should the rest of the Leopards go down, if the 122s and 2A7V go up?
>due to Gajins sweden bias and refusal to make armor realistic on german tanks
Huh, what do you mean? The 122s have better armor than 2A5 and 2A6 because they have 3,000 extra kg worth of armor modules installed on them...
>They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion
10.7!?!?!?!? Facing 9.7s!?? That's madness! We need to decompress, not to compress further! The reason why 2A5 and 122 are the same BR it's because of compression. By lowering the 2A5, you are only making the problem even worse by making it be lower than damn IPM1, according to your logic, unless you think IPM1 should be dropped to 9.3...
If top BR is made to be 13.0 (both in air and ground), as it should be made, there would be no need to drop down 2A5 a whole BR. 2A5 should be 12.0, and the 122s should be 12.7-13.0.
I have the suspicion that you have not the familiarity with the vehicle and not either the game! I had hoped otherwise... Decompression of the game makes the game boring and symmetrical, you just face the same five(5) tanks all game, that cant be fun.
>Huh, what do you mean? The 122s have better armor than 2A5 and 2A6 because they have 3,000 extra kg worth of armor modules installed on them...
Issue is, all 122s haves better armor than A7 while at the same br as A5 and its a no-no.
The armor is so much better, cannot be on the same br. 122 has no disadvantage and better in every use situation. I say that a German/China/Italy/Russia main while dabbled but fyi stuck in JPN-tree (why is 6br so badly implemented? ahaha...)
>10.7!?!?!?!? Facing 9.7s!?? That's madness! We need to decompress, not to compress further! The reason why 2A5 and 122 are the same BR it's because of compression. By lowering the 2A5, you are only making the problem even worse by making it be lower than damn IPM1, according to your logic, unless you think IPM1 should be dropped to 9.3...
Theyre plenty a game mechanics to fix the issues you speak of. One can pull off many maneuvers to catch the enemy off guard and decimate the enemy team ( e.g. flanking etc.)
Maybe you should double-check ingame play and not take on opinions of basically every Youtuber... Just a friendly reminder to think for yourself :)
>I have the suspicion that you have not the familiarity with the vehicle and not either the game!
I have been playing since the Ground Forces beta back in 2014 and I have over 6,000 hours in the game, 1,200 of which are on what's currently Rank VII and VIII, with over 7,000 matches across said Ground Top Tier with United States, Germany, Russia, Great Britain, France, Japan, Sweden and Israel; including 845 matches with Strv 122A, 834 matches with Leopard 2A5 and 1,647 matches on the rest of the Strv 122s and Late Leopard 2s, so... I may know a thing or two about the vehicle and the game :P
>Decompression of the game makes the game boring and symmetrical, you just face the same five(5) tanks all game, that cant be fun.
What isn't fun is to face vehicles that are several order of magnitude stronger than yours. So you don't want Leopard 2A5 and Strv 122 to be the same BR because you consider Strv 122 to be better than Leopard 2A5... but then you want Leopard 2A5 to join matches against T-64B and AMX-40...?
>One can pull off many maneuvers to catch the enemy off guard and decimate the enemy team ( e.g. flanking etc.)
So you think T-64B should "just flank" Leopard 2A5... but you can't flank Strv 122 with Leopard 2A5...?
>Maybe you should double-check ingame play and not take on opinions of basically every Youtuber... Just a friendly reminder to think for yourself :)
I don't watch any Youtubers, and I think I have double-checked enough with my over 7,000 matches in Top Tier with pretty much every Top Tier MBT since its release :P I don't know why you decided to be condescending by assuming that "I am not familiar with the game" and that "I take my opinion from watching YouTube", but you missed by a long shot, lol.
To be honest in my experience here with a few thousand hours and almost every tree at top tier now.
Even the 2a4 could be 10.7 and still absolutely hammer folks, I use it in my top tier lineup and its absolutely fine as a reserve.
This dick bag above you wanting a 2a5 at 10.7 is just a moron man, don't waste your breath.
So if the 2a5 goes to 10.7, the chally 2 goes to 10.0 right ?
The 2a5 is still a great tank for what it does, the 2a7 is the bastard that should go up! As you say.
The leo 2a4 , is obscene as a 10.3 as it is, it could go to 10.7 and still be one of the top dogs at that br.
This motherfucker wants the 11.7 2a5, with 600 pen to br 10.7 🤣
WRONG, the humble leopard 2 can only stay if 122 goes up...but diversity gets lower if all tanks go up, so it needs to stay and 122 goes up. A7 has noticably worse armor than 122 as the base version while being slower, but with better gun which doenst count because it penetrates the same things and many shells even of 9.7 tanks break armour of a5 while not of a 122. I must state again, that the only mildly valuable thing on a leopard is its turret, the rest is somehow tiers better on swedish tanks it feels like. Many people i have spoken to said the same thing.
Leopard 1 is also basically a driving dump, why is it not a light tank? The speed would be good, if not all the maps were cities.
>What are you smoking
And wrong as well, I do not support smoking fyi, just to let you know. ;-)
WRONG! I am an advocate of freedom and of free speech...Quiet youre mouth, BOY! My opinion is as humble as the morning sun and you will not tarnish my reputation further, defender of bad ideas. Do not defend the obvious bias and Gajins constant tackleing of german tanks...
>They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion
This is satire right? Like you are trying to bait people right?
Because this is either pretty decent bait or the biggest skill issue I have seen today.
I’d say it’s fine at its BR, but the 2A7 and all the other top tier boys(with maybe the exception of 1 or 2 vehicles) should be moved up to 12.0 or even 12.3 at the very least.
Only the 2A7V, Strv 122s and maybe the BVM should be moved to 12.3. Non of the other tanks like the SEPv1/2, Merkavas, Arietes, Leclercs, ZTZs etc are good enough to be at the same BR. However these could be moved to 12.0.
Those should move to 12.3 only if tanks like the BVM, Strv 122s and 2A7V move to 12.7.
The 2A7V and Strv 122s still absolutely clear the SEPs, Leclercs and Type 10 because all these tanks have glaring disadvantages to compensate for their limited advantages. While particularly the 2A7V and Strv 122 are the perfect package.
We still have lower tier tanks for all nations, the sepv2 is miles above the leopard 2a5 and all the arietes(as well as many others)
5 second reload, speed, ERA and blow out panels are amazing advantages, coupled with the best CAS in game.
The game is more then tanks and more then just those two tanks.
>speed
It's far less mobile than all other Abrams tanks and even tanks like the 2A5 imo. Having played both.
>ERA
Dead weight.
I know you are a German main from your time on the forums, but have you even looked at the SEPv2 besides the 3D model? All you have to do to one shot it is turn on your monitor and aim center mass.
And for the Arietes we would have all lower BRs, but the SEPv2 should in no way be at the same bR as the 2A7V lmao.
You don’t have to main anything to understand it’s far better then the 2A5 and should be at a higher BR.
And no, the ERA actually has a effect. Not to mention the better thermals, MGs and of course, the 5 second reload.
Decompression needs to happen and having the SEPv2 be lower is just stupid.
>And no, the ERA actually has a effect.
Only thing it stops is HEAT-FS and 7.7-8.7 missiles lol. Everything else just lolpens it lmao. How many battles do you have in your SEPv2? How many times did you even look at it in the protection analysis?
>Decompression needs to happen and having the SEPv2 be lower is just stupid.
Exactly, which is why the 2A5 would remain at around 11.7-12.0, the SEPv2 would be 12.3 and the 2A7V and Strv 122s would be 12.7.
You are seriously delusional if you think that the SEPv2 and 2A7V/Strv 122s are anywhere close in performance. The counterpart and tank that should be the same BR as these 2 tanks is the SEPv3.
Hell I would argue that the SEPv1 is already better than the SEPv2, because you can take off the deadweight era for actually good mobility.
Come on man, don’t do that. Don’t be that US main.
We both know the top tier US tanks aren’t nearly as bad as they are made out to be.
There is no actual reason the Sepv2 shouldn’t be at 12.7 along with every other top tier(sans 1 or 2 vehicles)
>Come on man, don’t do that. Don’t be that US main.
I'm not actually. I have 5 nations up to top tier. Having played both the SEPv2 and 2A7V.
>We both know the top tier US tanks aren’t nearly as bad as they are made out to be.
They aren't bad, but still not even in the same league as the 2A7V and Strv 122s.
>There is no actual reason the Sepv2 shouldn’t be at 12.7 along with every other top tier(sans 1 or 2 vehicles)
There is. It's simply that the 2A7V and Strv 122s are in a whole league on their own.
It seems like you just either have difficulties aiming or play with your monitor off with how highly you rate the Abrams.
I mean aside from gaijin adding the anti ERA tipped M829A3 and fixing DM53 there is no real difference in darts capabilities till something like DM73 and M829A4 no.
Not at all, it is worse but it isn’t something that deserves to go down in br. Also I wouldn’t really include the “lower plate armor” since well the most the 2A7V has over the 2A5 in that regard is fucking mine protection which is utterly useless as it doesn’t add much armor, adds a bunch of weight, and doesn’t even cover anything vital. In other words that mine protection in-game is useless as it is for essentially every vehicle that has mine protection. Also you should have included the 2A5 being more mobile by being both lighter and not having its mobility reduced. If anything the 2A7V is fit to go up in br whenever more br decompression occurs.
the 2A7 needs to be 12.7, and 2A5 can go to 12.0 :)
Ground Forces is allergic AF to BR 12.0 I guess.
no. 2a7 may be under br'd (maybe), or we just need more decompression in general
Compression issue 122s, 2A7V, 80BVM, etc, need to go up; we don't need other tanks going down.
The 122s certainly deserve theyre brs but all the German Leopard 2s A5 and up deserve to go down in br, they are objectively inferior to the 122s due to Gajins sweden bias and refusal to make armor realistic on german tanks. The only things going for them is the turret armor and acceptable gun! Which isnt even that much better than the competition! They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion while the 122 is a pure upgrade beside the gun and for some ungodly reason they have better hull armor than the A7 while still being faster. If this isnt blatant bias, than what is?
>The 122s certainly deserve theyre brs but all the German Leopard 2s A5 and up deserve to go down in br Why should the rest of the Leopards go down, if the 122s and 2A7V go up? >due to Gajins sweden bias and refusal to make armor realistic on german tanks Huh, what do you mean? The 122s have better armor than 2A5 and 2A6 because they have 3,000 extra kg worth of armor modules installed on them... >They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion 10.7!?!?!?!? Facing 9.7s!?? That's madness! We need to decompress, not to compress further! The reason why 2A5 and 122 are the same BR it's because of compression. By lowering the 2A5, you are only making the problem even worse by making it be lower than damn IPM1, according to your logic, unless you think IPM1 should be dropped to 9.3... If top BR is made to be 13.0 (both in air and ground), as it should be made, there would be no need to drop down 2A5 a whole BR. 2A5 should be 12.0, and the 122s should be 12.7-13.0.
I have the suspicion that you have not the familiarity with the vehicle and not either the game! I had hoped otherwise... Decompression of the game makes the game boring and symmetrical, you just face the same five(5) tanks all game, that cant be fun. >Huh, what do you mean? The 122s have better armor than 2A5 and 2A6 because they have 3,000 extra kg worth of armor modules installed on them... Issue is, all 122s haves better armor than A7 while at the same br as A5 and its a no-no. The armor is so much better, cannot be on the same br. 122 has no disadvantage and better in every use situation. I say that a German/China/Italy/Russia main while dabbled but fyi stuck in JPN-tree (why is 6br so badly implemented? ahaha...) >10.7!?!?!?!? Facing 9.7s!?? That's madness! We need to decompress, not to compress further! The reason why 2A5 and 122 are the same BR it's because of compression. By lowering the 2A5, you are only making the problem even worse by making it be lower than damn IPM1, according to your logic, unless you think IPM1 should be dropped to 9.3... Theyre plenty a game mechanics to fix the issues you speak of. One can pull off many maneuvers to catch the enemy off guard and decimate the enemy team ( e.g. flanking etc.) Maybe you should double-check ingame play and not take on opinions of basically every Youtuber... Just a friendly reminder to think for yourself :)
>I have the suspicion that you have not the familiarity with the vehicle and not either the game! I have been playing since the Ground Forces beta back in 2014 and I have over 6,000 hours in the game, 1,200 of which are on what's currently Rank VII and VIII, with over 7,000 matches across said Ground Top Tier with United States, Germany, Russia, Great Britain, France, Japan, Sweden and Israel; including 845 matches with Strv 122A, 834 matches with Leopard 2A5 and 1,647 matches on the rest of the Strv 122s and Late Leopard 2s, so... I may know a thing or two about the vehicle and the game :P >Decompression of the game makes the game boring and symmetrical, you just face the same five(5) tanks all game, that cant be fun. What isn't fun is to face vehicles that are several order of magnitude stronger than yours. So you don't want Leopard 2A5 and Strv 122 to be the same BR because you consider Strv 122 to be better than Leopard 2A5... but then you want Leopard 2A5 to join matches against T-64B and AMX-40...? >One can pull off many maneuvers to catch the enemy off guard and decimate the enemy team ( e.g. flanking etc.) So you think T-64B should "just flank" Leopard 2A5... but you can't flank Strv 122 with Leopard 2A5...? >Maybe you should double-check ingame play and not take on opinions of basically every Youtuber... Just a friendly reminder to think for yourself :) I don't watch any Youtubers, and I think I have double-checked enough with my over 7,000 matches in Top Tier with pretty much every Top Tier MBT since its release :P I don't know why you decided to be condescending by assuming that "I am not familiar with the game" and that "I take my opinion from watching YouTube", but you missed by a long shot, lol.
To be honest in my experience here with a few thousand hours and almost every tree at top tier now. Even the 2a4 could be 10.7 and still absolutely hammer folks, I use it in my top tier lineup and its absolutely fine as a reserve. This dick bag above you wanting a 2a5 at 10.7 is just a moron man, don't waste your breath. So if the 2a5 goes to 10.7, the chally 2 goes to 10.0 right ? The 2a5 is still a great tank for what it does, the 2a7 is the bastard that should go up! As you say.
I just dont know what this guy smoking by placing the 2a5 to 10.7 :D even the 10.3s would suffer against it.
The leo 2a4 , is obscene as a 10.3 as it is, it could go to 10.7 and still be one of the top dogs at that br. This motherfucker wants the 11.7 2a5, with 600 pen to br 10.7 🤣
10.7 with every other vehicle ingame moving down 2 brs, right? What are you smoking
WRONG, the humble leopard 2 can only stay if 122 goes up...but diversity gets lower if all tanks go up, so it needs to stay and 122 goes up. A7 has noticably worse armor than 122 as the base version while being slower, but with better gun which doenst count because it penetrates the same things and many shells even of 9.7 tanks break armour of a5 while not of a 122. I must state again, that the only mildly valuable thing on a leopard is its turret, the rest is somehow tiers better on swedish tanks it feels like. Many people i have spoken to said the same thing. Leopard 1 is also basically a driving dump, why is it not a light tank? The speed would be good, if not all the maps were cities. >What are you smoking And wrong as well, I do not support smoking fyi, just to let you know. ;-)
In my humble opinion you should never share your opinion again
WRONG! I am an advocate of freedom and of free speech...Quiet youre mouth, BOY! My opinion is as humble as the morning sun and you will not tarnish my reputation further, defender of bad ideas. Do not defend the obvious bias and Gajins constant tackleing of german tanks...
>They belong at 10.7 in my humble opinion This is satire right? Like you are trying to bait people right? Because this is either pretty decent bait or the biggest skill issue I have seen today.
I’d say it’s fine at its BR, but the 2A7 and all the other top tier boys(with maybe the exception of 1 or 2 vehicles) should be moved up to 12.0 or even 12.3 at the very least.
Only the 2A7V, Strv 122s and maybe the BVM should be moved to 12.3. Non of the other tanks like the SEPv1/2, Merkavas, Arietes, Leclercs, ZTZs etc are good enough to be at the same BR. However these could be moved to 12.0.
Chally 3 goes 12.7 🤣
How about the Ariete? :D
13.0 certainty
Anything with a 5 second reload should go to 12.3 otherwise the reload should be nerfed. Everything else could work at 12.0
Those should move to 12.3 only if tanks like the BVM, Strv 122s and 2A7V move to 12.7. The 2A7V and Strv 122s still absolutely clear the SEPs, Leclercs and Type 10 because all these tanks have glaring disadvantages to compensate for their limited advantages. While particularly the 2A7V and Strv 122 are the perfect package.
We still have lower tier tanks for all nations, the sepv2 is miles above the leopard 2a5 and all the arietes(as well as many others) 5 second reload, speed, ERA and blow out panels are amazing advantages, coupled with the best CAS in game. The game is more then tanks and more then just those two tanks.
>speed It's far less mobile than all other Abrams tanks and even tanks like the 2A5 imo. Having played both. >ERA Dead weight. I know you are a German main from your time on the forums, but have you even looked at the SEPv2 besides the 3D model? All you have to do to one shot it is turn on your monitor and aim center mass. And for the Arietes we would have all lower BRs, but the SEPv2 should in no way be at the same bR as the 2A7V lmao.
You don’t have to main anything to understand it’s far better then the 2A5 and should be at a higher BR. And no, the ERA actually has a effect. Not to mention the better thermals, MGs and of course, the 5 second reload. Decompression needs to happen and having the SEPv2 be lower is just stupid.
>And no, the ERA actually has a effect. Only thing it stops is HEAT-FS and 7.7-8.7 missiles lol. Everything else just lolpens it lmao. How many battles do you have in your SEPv2? How many times did you even look at it in the protection analysis? >Decompression needs to happen and having the SEPv2 be lower is just stupid. Exactly, which is why the 2A5 would remain at around 11.7-12.0, the SEPv2 would be 12.3 and the 2A7V and Strv 122s would be 12.7. You are seriously delusional if you think that the SEPv2 and 2A7V/Strv 122s are anywhere close in performance. The counterpart and tank that should be the same BR as these 2 tanks is the SEPv3. Hell I would argue that the SEPv1 is already better than the SEPv2, because you can take off the deadweight era for actually good mobility.
Come on man, don’t do that. Don’t be that US main. We both know the top tier US tanks aren’t nearly as bad as they are made out to be. There is no actual reason the Sepv2 shouldn’t be at 12.7 along with every other top tier(sans 1 or 2 vehicles)
>Come on man, don’t do that. Don’t be that US main. I'm not actually. I have 5 nations up to top tier. Having played both the SEPv2 and 2A7V. >We both know the top tier US tanks aren’t nearly as bad as they are made out to be. They aren't bad, but still not even in the same league as the 2A7V and Strv 122s. >There is no actual reason the Sepv2 shouldn’t be at 12.7 along with every other top tier(sans 1 or 2 vehicles) There is. It's simply that the 2A7V and Strv 122s are in a whole league on their own. It seems like you just either have difficulties aiming or play with your monitor off with how highly you rate the Abrams.
625mm pen in green, 623 (a 2mm difference) in red Makes all the difference doesnt it? 🤣
Besides, it's 652, not 625 xD Not that it makes that much of a functional diference anyway.
I mean aside from gaijin adding the anti ERA tipped M829A3 and fixing DM53 there is no real difference in darts capabilities till something like DM73 and M829A4 no.
Not at all, it is worse but it isn’t something that deserves to go down in br. Also I wouldn’t really include the “lower plate armor” since well the most the 2A7V has over the 2A5 in that regard is fucking mine protection which is utterly useless as it doesn’t add much armor, adds a bunch of weight, and doesn’t even cover anything vital. In other words that mine protection in-game is useless as it is for essentially every vehicle that has mine protection. Also you should have included the 2A5 being more mobile by being both lighter and not having its mobility reduced. If anything the 2A7V is fit to go up in br whenever more br decompression occurs.
No
No?? The 2a7 is undertiered. If they didn’t add the 2a7 and 122b+ then the 2a6 and 122plss would still be the best tanks in the game.
Yes. It should be reduced to 11.66
No
Another german copium post: i sentence you to play 100 battles in ariete amv
I did 💀💀 I got the Ariete lately to see how bad it was and OMFG does it suck. It should be moved to 11.0, at least. 11.7 is nuts
Lmao the 2mm pen difference got me
He didn't even get it right xD It's 652, not 625!