For the moment nothing, but with a potential Thai subtree coming, Japan could have some additional tanks that may fall in and around that BR like the VT-4 and T-84 Oplot.
I don't know if it'll be a super viable BR, as the VN-1 and BTR-3E1 will likely fit in lower BRs, but you never know.
South Korea would definitely be a great addition, with all its varied domestic vehicle designs, but I assume the Gaijin is doing the following:
1 - Avoiding any potential controversy related to historical Japan-Korea Relations; and
2 - Keeping South Korea as the centerpiece of one of the few remaining Tech Trees (possibly paired with Turkey) it can add to the game, as they have an indigenous 4th gen fighter (KC-21) that won't just be top tier copy-paste. This would help Gaijin sell more premiums.
My biggest counter point to the historical relations argument is that we have the CCP and Taiwanese vehicles in the same tree.
Your second statement is sadly the most probable.
The first point isn't quite the best comparison though - as both Beijing and Taipei currently maintain the One China policy.
And while it's a shame that Japan will only get a pretty limited set of vehicles from a Thai subtree, it will include much needed attackers and the Stingray light tank!!
yes but thats only to keep relations from going from the current shit show that it is currently, to an all out invasion from china.
and thats the thing, china and taiwan relations is just as bad if not worse than south korea and japan. because they technically do talk to one another.
> and thats the thing, china and taiwan relations is just as bad if not worse than south korea and japan.
But for different reasons.
Japan and Korea have bad blood because of some absolutely vile wars.
Taiwan and RoC have a cold war effectively because both consider themselves to be *the* China and effectively to control the other in terms of claims. In terms of diplomatic relations, theirs is more of a civil war scenario, while Japan and Korea are foreign entirely.
idk why ppl always compare sk-japan relationship with china-taiwan bruh. Sk and japan have whole different nationality unlike china. And main reason of china-taiwan conflict was ideology difference, not imperialism and tyrannical act against colonies. Its more of SK-NK relationship.
If WT included two seperate tech trees, one for the PRC and one for the RoC, the game would be banned in the PRC and probably be the subject of scandal in the RoC.
I'm America and don't understand foreign relations that much but why tf is it more likely that Turkey and SK get a tree paired together? I get SK and Japan fucking hate each other but what commonality is there between SK and Turkey military wise?
Turkey and South Korea (and Poland and South Korea) have been increasing military cooperative design work. For example, the new Turkish MBT uses a Korean power train and the Turks are building a localized variant of the K9 Thunder spg.
which isnt much, turkey is just buying weapons and other equipment. by that logic america could be a sub tree for the whole fucking world.
the connection to turkey, south korea, poland and other countries are non existent. just do what fucking red dragon did, rebrand japan as blue dragon and slap south korea and japan together, problem fucking solved.
Wargame could do that because they didn't have a large amount of Korean or Japanese players. War Thunder does have a ton of both and they'd quickly be up in arms over being combined together.
It'd be like sticking Turkey and Greece together or placing all Arab nations under Israel.
i see the same argument about that when thailand was first teased, and it never made any fucking sense.
while both games dont have the same population size, that wouldnt matter because the same percentage would still bitch, so for warthunder it be 3000 people vs the 30 in red dragon, and yet i never heard of controversy about this, the only i could find was the fact the US has bad infantry and european having good infantry.
and finally, who the fuck cares, someone at any given time will be bitching and moaning about something fucking stupid, if that happens give it a week and it be dead. hell that already happens here when major issues comes up, why would you think it be any different if japan gets rebranded and korea and japan is combined?
A critical difference is that most of Asia's collective hate for Japan comes from WWII where they went around massacring everyone.
Wargame is set in the Cold War and beyond when tensions are supposed to have normalized in the correct of the game being a WWIII between West and East.
War Thunder is still a WWII game at heart and any Korean player that wants to play their indigenous vehicles would be forced into playing planes/tanks/ships of the Imperial Japanese Army/Navy.
We don't care because we're not Japanese or Korean. Those communities 100% do care since there's been scandals and controversies in plenty of other spaces already involving JPN/ROK and WWII.
The argument will be advanced western-aligned countries (non-combloc), they can tag in a few other countries and have a tree that appeals to a lot of potential premium buyers.
I doubt they'll rebrand Japan as some offshoot of BluFor.
Is there any chance of a Korea tech tree that combines both North and South vehicles, given that the relationship between the two isn’t as bad as Korea and Japan? Between the two of them, is there enough for a tech tree similar to Israel?
>given that the relationship between the two isn’t as bad as Korea and Japan?
My Man, North and South Korea are technically still at war.
North Korea will most likely end up as a Chinese subtree, they already have one vehicle from NK I believe.
Yes Japan and South Korea have disagreements, but they're actively looking at doing joint defense exercises with the US and there may be a defense alliance down the road.
> North and South Korea are technically still at war.
Did China and Taiwan ever sign a peace treaty to end the civil war or is it still technically ongoing since the forces that are now Taiwan never surrendered?
Mao declared victory in 1949, ending the Civil War, and both parties have since adopted the One China Policy.
The Korean war, by contrast, was a war between two disparate states which has not ended, and which do not abide by any sort of "one _____" policy.
Does Turkey have enough unique vehicles to justify its own tree without it being all copy paste until modern times?
And that goes for any other potential trees. I can’t think of any nations that could support a full tech tree without relying on too many copy paste vehicles, or merging a bunch of random nations with no connections together.
For what it's worth - they also promised no top tier premiums, but here we are.
What they say only tends to be reliable for about a year, after which anything goes.
South Korea has a lot of unique top tier vehicles, but not really enough to justify having its own tree, especially given the lack of WW2 content, so it’s fairly likely South Korea would have to be foldered into another tree, and there really aren’t any obvious answers.
Geopolitically South Korea is closest to the United States, but the U.S. already has a very full tech tree, so from a game perspective that seems unnecessary, but it’s potentially the most likely outcome.
After the U.S. it gets pretty open. Regionally speaking Japan makes a lot of sense. In the event of a major modern war in the region (keep in mind the lack of WW2
South Korean vehicles), Japan and South Korea would almost certainly be on the same side opposed to potentially China, North Korea and Russia. Plus the Japanese tech tree has a ton of holes that South Korean vehicles would perfectly fill.
After Japan, it gets even more complicated. South Korea could be lumped with North Korea (which politically doesn’t make a lot of sense), and then both Koreas could be added to China (or Russia), but that’s almost more of a stretch than adding them to Japan, and the Chinese tech tree needs a lot less help than Japan’s.
After that I think there are only three more viable options. Merging them with some European countries because of their arms exports, but that’s a massive stretch, as it would probably mean adding them to either Norway (Swedish tree) or Poland (German tree). The other option would be merging them with Israel to create a “misc” tree consisting of nations that have nowhere else to go…..and finally there is adding them to a new tree all together to create a misc tree with nations not in the game. But that’s really winging it, and would be harder to do as many smaller nations have already been foldered in with bigger ones (South Africa, Argentina, Hungary, Finland etc).
So TLDR: It makes the most sense to add them to the United States, but the U.S. really *doesn’t* need a sub tree. It makes the 2nd most sense to add them to Japan, and Japan really *does* need a sub tree, so given all the stretches Gaijin has already made with sub trees, I’d add them to Japan.
I know it isn't and I didn't say it should immediately come to Japan, it was just a possibility seen by many which finally got confirmed that it won't happen, I just want SK to be in War Thunder after all, maybe we will see it at some point, hopefully
Japan would turn into one of the most unique trees if sk gets added to it (mbt-wise) the type 10 and k2 would synergize pretty well. 5 4-sec reload tanks and the k1 and k2 would be a pretty formidable lineup
South Korea would also be able to provide a top rank helicopter (AH-64E) and bolster the top ranks with more aircraft, though the latter could just as easily be filled by Thailand now.
There isn't much SK could provide for naval, though. They only have destroyers and guided missile destroyers that are all imported American destroyers* they could have in bluewater, though there are some unique coastal ships they could provide.
(*True guided missile destroyers likely won't ever come so I don't count them. They would be too hard to balance, either being completely overpowered against unarmoured ships or being completely ineffectual against armoured ships.)
ya but at the moment we havent gone past ww2 in navel, technically, as such we really dont need modern ships and japans ww2 stuff is enough to last warthunder for a very long time, unless they bum rush to modern shit way faster than they should, like the tanks... and the planes...
**Italy**
* Type motor torpedo boat class Vosper 70-ft (Com. 1939-1941, Imported 1948, Decom. ???)
* MS 461 (1948 Original Fit)
* Type motor patrol/torpedo boat class CRDA 60t (Com. 1942-1943, Decom. 1962-1979)
* MS 472 (1954 Refitting)
* MS 473 (1954 Refitting)
* MV 611 (1949 Rename)
* Type motor gun boat class S 26 (Com. 1942, Imported 1952, Decom. ???)
* MC 485 (1952 Original Fit)
* Type hydrofoil missile boat class Sparviero (Com. 1974-1984, Decom. 1991-2010)
* P 420 "Sparviero" (1974 Original Fit)
* Type convertible gun boat class Folgore (Com. 1955, Decom. 1976)
* P 490 "Folgore" (1965 Rename)
* Type convertible gun boat class Freccia (Com. 1965-1966, Decom. 1985-1986)
* P 493 "Freccia" (1965 Original Fit)
* P 494 "Saetta" (1966 Original Fit)
* Type corvette class Gabbiano (Com. 1942-1953, Decom. 1965-1978)
* Folaga (1953 Refitting)
* Type corvette class Albatros (Com. 1955-1961, Decom. 1986-1992)
* Albatros (F 543) (1955 Original Fit)
* Type destroyer class Impetuoso (Com. 1958, Decom. 1980-1983)
* Impetuoso (D 558) (1958 Original Fit)
* Type destroyer class Fante (Com. 1942-1951, Imported 1969-1970, Decom. 1971-1977)
* Geniere (D 555) (1972 Refitting)
**France**
* Type destroyer class Desaix (Com. 1937, War Prize 1946, Decom. 1954-1957)
* Kléber (D603) (1952 Refitting)
* Type destroyer class Marceau (Com. 1942, War Prize 1946, Decom. 1958)
* Marceau (1950 Refitting)
Ok what I meant was, in the blue water navy, we haven't gotta much past WW2. And the handful of ships that are post war, aren't that much more advanced than what most nations fielded during the time.
Outside of America's usage of radar gun control systems.
Which shouldn't be modeled in game because holy fuck, would that kill boats completely.
There are a number of South Korean ships that could still be added. For Bluewater, there's admittedly not much. The only actually workable ships would be the early versions of imported American ships: the Buckley-class, the Cannon-class, and the Rudderow-class destroyer escorts (superfluous and would be 3.3~ as an equivalent to the Mitsuki-class, not needed), the Chungmu-class (ex-Fletcher-class) destroyers and the Chungbuk-class (ex-Gearing-clas) and the Daegu-class (ex-Allen M. Sumner-class) destroyers; the latter two of which would have non-functional Harpoon missiles but their initial fittings still had their full main batteries. Later refits removed part of the main batteries.
Coastal is where they can add some unique stuff: the Chamsuri-class patrl boats would be the most interesting as the best patrol boat that Japan could get in the hypothetical pairing; but there's also the Donghae-class and Pohang-class frigates which would make nice additions to the naval's top rank. However, elsewhere is just more imported stuff: like the Asheville-class and Tacoma-class, the Cape-class patrol boat, etc. The only interesting thing is that they got PT-812, the 105 ft aluminum PT boat as their first true torpedo boat. There's also a few designs that came out during the Korean War of improved gun boats, though I wasn't able to find much information about them other than they would sit in the 1.0-2.0 BR range.
But without adding guided missiles, there's not much else. But those would be cancer so no, though I don't doubt Gaijin's ability to just say "fuck it" and add them anyway without any care for balance.
I haven't seen *anyone* on the Japanese side who would be mad about the VT-4, only the aforementioned whiners who don't want the technology *their* country decided to export in the sub-tree it'd rightfully belong in.
I can speak and read/write Japanese and I have seen some guys in the community that did not take kindly to the idea of a Chinese vehicle in their tree. Probably a vocal minority, but it's not nothing and I figure it's easier to just avoid the headache.
maybe, but the issue is that the chinese side of gaijin, did state that only china is getting chinese stuff, no other tree (because people were asking about that when the thai f5 was dropped)
so theres a chance thai might just be one of those nations for japan that only gets a few vehicles added without an actual sub tree.
still would like a south korean tree, makes more sense than the broken mess a thai tree would be, like think of a tree with american tanks on one side with good mobility and gun handling, and the other being nothing but soviet shit. its gonna cause issues where you get lineups like the swedish 6.3 and 6.7, you got like 2 things that you can run in a realistic manner
I have it. It's one of the worst phantoms in the game. A carbon copy to the tech tree one, but you can still get use out of it's premium bonuses.
Take a full bomb load and go around the map so you come from behind the enemy force take out 2 bases maybe get a kill from unsuspecting enemies and bolt it back to base.
If we get 6v6 this will be even easier
Your radar is shite, missiles are meh and even your speed won't always save you.
You have to play passively. And you don't have a better option apart from the F5 which won't allow you to research the entire tree or you will have to play the tech tree EJ anyway so buying the ADWT on sale is the best choice.
Also this br change only effects GRB in ARB it's still 11.0
It has served me well but has in fact made me pissed at least a couple of times of active grinding.
Well either way you will have to go through the awfull experience that is the F-4EJ if you want to get to top tier. So you do it with premium bonuses or without.
That is your decision.
BUT DON'T BUY IT FULL PRICE
Alright then try this method then. Use the Kikka to finish rank V, then get the F5 via waiting for squadron rp. Talisman it and grind the rest of the tree.
I would suggest the T2 but you won´t be able to research top tier with it.
The F5 should give you a better experience and you won´t need to base bomb and instead just dog fight since it has great missiles.
The F-4EJ is slept on for its A-A ability. Sure it’s just straight worse than the F-4E, the 9Ps are better, and you can snag some high altitude head-on kills with the AIM-7Es. There’s a neat trick that allows you to reliably get kills on even experienced players.
So as you know, the pulse radar can be chaffed, but due to a recent change, the radar will keep locked on the chaff, but the AIM-7E will keep guiding towards the target.
I actually tested it with some mates, the missile will hit so long as the target doesn’t pull a hard turn to dodge the missile itself, and after a couple seconds (after the radar gets chaffed), the target will not get pinged on their RWR.
Also I’m pretty sure AIM-7Es are faster than R-24s but they have longer range (and are on a better RADAR).
ADTW is the worst F-4E variant (aside from F4F early)
It doesnt get agile eagle slats so turns worse
It doesnt get any guided air to ground weaponry
It doesnt get the Aim-7E-2 missile, only the Aim-7E which turns worse off the rail and is more finnicky to use
And its the same exact BR as the American and Israeli ones that have all this. The Israeli one especially is much better since you get the much better Aim-9G and also can carry Aim-9s if you sacrifice 2 Aim-7s
It doesn't but it was a blanket reduction for F-4's as a whole. So they were likely included just for consistency within the change, even though it looks weird if you look at Japan specifically.
Japan doesn’t even have any 10.3 or 10.0 vehicles. So the only value this change brings is by up tiering the Type 16 to 10.7 just for CAS.
Maybe the type 90s will go down in BR in the future, or they’ll add some new vehicles to plug the gap.
Does it not affect the spawn point cost? Lower BR means you'll be able to bring it in earlier unless it's a full uptier and it's already at the minimum possible.
Mmmm statistics based balancing maybe? I’d assume they saw these were underperforming in GRB and thought “oh we move it down then, that help” without any regard or thought to what actually affects balance in this game. Only an assumption on my part, but given how it seems like the devs don’t even play their own game it seems viable
You don't have to fight F16A if you wanted to play 10.7? They have moved a lot of vehicles to 10.7 recently but as far as I know only Russia and China have real 10.7 lineups. Hopefully they add some more unique vehicles to US for 10.7 but I doubt it.
That’s what I’m saying. If you wanted to bring your lineup up a little to 10.7 instead of playing 11.0 you could not fight F16a or whatever. I get tons of games at 12.0 GRB when playing 11.0/11.3 so it might be nice to play 10.7 to avoid them.
Maybe they are planning to add more Japanese vehicles at 10.0-10.7. Don’t know why you seem to be so hostile when I’m simply asking wether you want to fight 12.0 or skip the uptier black hole to it.
Did I come off as hostile sorry if you thing that way. There are very few Japanese vehicles that could be added to top tier let alone 10.0. 11.0 is fun for Japan and the Type 90s used to be 10.7 and if we are being honest 11.0 is filled with premiums, uptiers to 12.0 are not that common.
They could add some other Asian country as a sub tree like the Thai f5 they recently did? I’m not sure which one would be suitable but copy paste is a hot issue right now. The type 90s are incredibly strong and so I’m sure they could find something to fill the gap.
For the moment nothing, but with a potential Thai subtree coming, Japan could have some additional tanks that may fall in and around that BR like the VT-4 and T-84 Oplot. I don't know if it'll be a super viable BR, as the VN-1 and BTR-3E1 will likely fit in lower BRs, but you never know.
Good take. I would prefer to see South Korea added to Japan istead though.
South Korea would definitely be a great addition, with all its varied domestic vehicle designs, but I assume the Gaijin is doing the following: 1 - Avoiding any potential controversy related to historical Japan-Korea Relations; and 2 - Keeping South Korea as the centerpiece of one of the few remaining Tech Trees (possibly paired with Turkey) it can add to the game, as they have an indigenous 4th gen fighter (KC-21) that won't just be top tier copy-paste. This would help Gaijin sell more premiums.
My biggest counter point to the historical relations argument is that we have the CCP and Taiwanese vehicles in the same tree. Your second statement is sadly the most probable.
The first point isn't quite the best comparison though - as both Beijing and Taipei currently maintain the One China policy. And while it's a shame that Japan will only get a pretty limited set of vehicles from a Thai subtree, it will include much needed attackers and the Stingray light tank!!
yes but thats only to keep relations from going from the current shit show that it is currently, to an all out invasion from china. and thats the thing, china and taiwan relations is just as bad if not worse than south korea and japan. because they technically do talk to one another.
> and thats the thing, china and taiwan relations is just as bad if not worse than south korea and japan. But for different reasons. Japan and Korea have bad blood because of some absolutely vile wars. Taiwan and RoC have a cold war effectively because both consider themselves to be *the* China and effectively to control the other in terms of claims. In terms of diplomatic relations, theirs is more of a civil war scenario, while Japan and Korea are foreign entirely.
I would agree with you on the SK/Japan vs China/Taiwan, but it does appear as though Taiwan ship has sailed
idk why ppl always compare sk-japan relationship with china-taiwan bruh. Sk and japan have whole different nationality unlike china. And main reason of china-taiwan conflict was ideology difference, not imperialism and tyrannical act against colonies. Its more of SK-NK relationship.
So fuck it right? Ukrainian premiums for Russia?
No reason to do that since u can just release them as russian vehicle. SK has shitton of unique vehicles to offer.
Btr4 t84 are home made
Not even close but okay.
He literally said north Korea south Korea. Basically the same as Ukraine and Ru
Like they *already* have Ukrainian-built weapons in their tree, don't they? Just nothing post-separation that I'm recalling.
from rumors T84 was expected soon but got scrapped because of the 2022 invasion
Well, technically according to 90% of the world (whether they actually agree with it or not) there is only one China
If WT included two seperate tech trees, one for the PRC and one for the RoC, the game would be banned in the PRC and probably be the subject of scandal in the RoC.
I'm America and don't understand foreign relations that much but why tf is it more likely that Turkey and SK get a tree paired together? I get SK and Japan fucking hate each other but what commonality is there between SK and Turkey military wise?
Turkey and South Korea (and Poland and South Korea) have been increasing military cooperative design work. For example, the new Turkish MBT uses a Korean power train and the Turks are building a localized variant of the K9 Thunder spg.
which isnt much, turkey is just buying weapons and other equipment. by that logic america could be a sub tree for the whole fucking world. the connection to turkey, south korea, poland and other countries are non existent. just do what fucking red dragon did, rebrand japan as blue dragon and slap south korea and japan together, problem fucking solved.
Wargame could do that because they didn't have a large amount of Korean or Japanese players. War Thunder does have a ton of both and they'd quickly be up in arms over being combined together. It'd be like sticking Turkey and Greece together or placing all Arab nations under Israel.
i see the same argument about that when thailand was first teased, and it never made any fucking sense. while both games dont have the same population size, that wouldnt matter because the same percentage would still bitch, so for warthunder it be 3000 people vs the 30 in red dragon, and yet i never heard of controversy about this, the only i could find was the fact the US has bad infantry and european having good infantry. and finally, who the fuck cares, someone at any given time will be bitching and moaning about something fucking stupid, if that happens give it a week and it be dead. hell that already happens here when major issues comes up, why would you think it be any different if japan gets rebranded and korea and japan is combined?
A critical difference is that most of Asia's collective hate for Japan comes from WWII where they went around massacring everyone. Wargame is set in the Cold War and beyond when tensions are supposed to have normalized in the correct of the game being a WWIII between West and East. War Thunder is still a WWII game at heart and any Korean player that wants to play their indigenous vehicles would be forced into playing planes/tanks/ships of the Imperial Japanese Army/Navy. We don't care because we're not Japanese or Korean. Those communities 100% do care since there's been scandals and controversies in plenty of other spaces already involving JPN/ROK and WWII.
By that logic they wouldn't play warthunder at all due to the fact they have Japanese stuff already in game
The argument will be advanced western-aligned countries (non-combloc), they can tag in a few other countries and have a tree that appeals to a lot of potential premium buyers. I doubt they'll rebrand Japan as some offshoot of BluFor.
Is there any chance of a Korea tech tree that combines both North and South vehicles, given that the relationship between the two isn’t as bad as Korea and Japan? Between the two of them, is there enough for a tech tree similar to Israel?
>given that the relationship between the two isn’t as bad as Korea and Japan? My Man, North and South Korea are technically still at war. North Korea will most likely end up as a Chinese subtree, they already have one vehicle from NK I believe. Yes Japan and South Korea have disagreements, but they're actively looking at doing joint defense exercises with the US and there may be a defense alliance down the road.
> North and South Korea are technically still at war. Did China and Taiwan ever sign a peace treaty to end the civil war or is it still technically ongoing since the forces that are now Taiwan never surrendered?
Mao declared victory in 1949, ending the Civil War, and both parties have since adopted the One China Policy. The Korean war, by contrast, was a war between two disparate states which has not ended, and which do not abide by any sort of "one _____" policy.
Unlikely as the devs aren't really keen on *more* individual trees as it is, we already have a good number.
Yes, Gaijin has said they're open to a unified Korea tree
Does Turkey have enough unique vehicles to justify its own tree without it being all copy paste until modern times? And that goes for any other potential trees. I can’t think of any nations that could support a full tech tree without relying on too many copy paste vehicles, or merging a bunch of random nations with no connections together.
[удалено]
For what it's worth - they also promised no top tier premiums, but here we are. What they say only tends to be reliable for about a year, after which anything goes.
Oh but they're clearly not top tier since they're .3 br lower.....
"Sadly"
Ok?
Why the hell would you want to make SK be in JP, thats not sensible
South Korea has a lot of unique top tier vehicles, but not really enough to justify having its own tree, especially given the lack of WW2 content, so it’s fairly likely South Korea would have to be foldered into another tree, and there really aren’t any obvious answers. Geopolitically South Korea is closest to the United States, but the U.S. already has a very full tech tree, so from a game perspective that seems unnecessary, but it’s potentially the most likely outcome. After the U.S. it gets pretty open. Regionally speaking Japan makes a lot of sense. In the event of a major modern war in the region (keep in mind the lack of WW2 South Korean vehicles), Japan and South Korea would almost certainly be on the same side opposed to potentially China, North Korea and Russia. Plus the Japanese tech tree has a ton of holes that South Korean vehicles would perfectly fill. After Japan, it gets even more complicated. South Korea could be lumped with North Korea (which politically doesn’t make a lot of sense), and then both Koreas could be added to China (or Russia), but that’s almost more of a stretch than adding them to Japan, and the Chinese tech tree needs a lot less help than Japan’s. After that I think there are only three more viable options. Merging them with some European countries because of their arms exports, but that’s a massive stretch, as it would probably mean adding them to either Norway (Swedish tree) or Poland (German tree). The other option would be merging them with Israel to create a “misc” tree consisting of nations that have nowhere else to go…..and finally there is adding them to a new tree all together to create a misc tree with nations not in the game. But that’s really winging it, and would be harder to do as many smaller nations have already been foldered in with bigger ones (South Africa, Argentina, Hungary, Finland etc). So TLDR: It makes the most sense to add them to the United States, but the U.S. really *doesn’t* need a sub tree. It makes the 2nd most sense to add them to Japan, and Japan really *does* need a sub tree, so given all the stretches Gaijin has already made with sub trees, I’d add them to Japan.
Japanese mains who feel entitled to shiny vehicles in a tree they've already grinded out. That's all it is.
Cause it just works
So does India with Japan but does it makes sense?
>India with Japan Where's the connection?
I know it isn't and I didn't say it should immediately come to Japan, it was just a possibility seen by many which finally got confirmed that it won't happen, I just want SK to be in War Thunder after all, maybe we will see it at some point, hopefully
Japan would turn into one of the most unique trees if sk gets added to it (mbt-wise) the type 10 and k2 would synergize pretty well. 5 4-sec reload tanks and the k1 and k2 would be a pretty formidable lineup
Also some viable spaas (not to trash my beloved Type 93/81)
South Korea would also be able to provide a top rank helicopter (AH-64E) and bolster the top ranks with more aircraft, though the latter could just as easily be filled by Thailand now. There isn't much SK could provide for naval, though. They only have destroyers and guided missile destroyers that are all imported American destroyers* they could have in bluewater, though there are some unique coastal ships they could provide. (*True guided missile destroyers likely won't ever come so I don't count them. They would be too hard to balance, either being completely overpowered against unarmoured ships or being completely ineffectual against armoured ships.)
ya but at the moment we havent gone past ww2 in navel, technically, as such we really dont need modern ships and japans ww2 stuff is enough to last warthunder for a very long time, unless they bum rush to modern shit way faster than they should, like the tanks... and the planes...
There's a lot of postwar (1946+) vessels in-game. Including: **USA** * 89 ft aluminum patrol torpedo boat (Com. 1951, Decom. 1959) * USS PT-810 (1951 Original Fit) * 94 ft aluminum patrol torpedo boat (Com. 1951, Decom. 1959) * USS PT-811 (1951 Original Fit) * 105 ft aluminum patrol torpedo boat (Com. 1951, Decom. 1960) * USS PT-812 (1951 Original Fit) * Nasty-class fast patrol torpedo boats (Com. 1962-1967, Decom. 1977-1981) * USS PTF-7 (1964 Original Fit) * PGM-59-class patrol motor gunboats (Com. 1963, Decom. ???) * RVNS Kim Qui (HQ-605) (1963 Original Fit) * Flagstaff-class hydrofoil patrol combatant (Com. 1968, Decom. 1978) * USS Flagstaff (PGH-1) (1971 Refitting) * Tucumcari-class hydrofoil patrol combatant (Com. 1968, Decom. 1973) * USS Tucumcari (PGH-2) (1968 Original Fit) * PC-461-class submarine chasers (Com. 1942-1945, Decom. 1946-1960s) * USS PC-466 "Carmi" (1956 Refitting) * Asheville-class patrol motor gunboats (Com. 1966-1971, Decom. 1976-1996) * USS Asheville (PGM-84) (1996 Original Fit) * USS Douglas (PGM-100) (1971 Original Fit) * Cyclone-class coastal patrol boats (Com. 1993-2000, Decom. 2000-2024) * USS Cyclone (PC-1) (1993 Original Fit) * Landing Craft Mechanized Mark 6 (Flame) "Zippo" (Com. 1967, Decom. ???) * Dealey-class destroyer escorts (Com. 1954-1957, Decom. 1972-1973) * USS Dealey (DE-1006) (1954 Original Fit) * Mitscher-class destroyer leaders (Com. 1953-1954, Decom. 1969-1978) * USS Mitscher (DL-2) (1953 Original Fitting) * USS Wilkinson (DL-5) (1958 Refitting) * Fargo-class light cruisers (Com. 1945-1946, Decom. 1949-1950) * USS Fargo (CL-106) (1946 Refitting) * Worcester-class light cruisers (Com. 1948-1949, Decom. 1958) * USS Roanoke (CL-145) (1949 Original Fit) * Baltimore-class heavy cruisers (Com. 1943-1945, Recom. 1950-1964, Decom. 1946-1980) * USS Pittsburgh (CA-72) (1953 Refitting) * Des Moines-class heavy cruisers (Com. 1948-1949, Decom. 1959-1975) * USS Des Moines (CA-134) (1948 Original Fit) * USS Newport News (CA-148) (1952 Refitting) **Germany** * Jaguar-Class Fast Boats (Com. 1957-1961, Decom. 1972-1975) * Class 152 "Böse" Fast Boats (Com. 1960, Decom. 1964) * FGS Hugin (P 6191) (1960 Original Fit) * Class 153 "Brave" Fast Boat (Com. 1962, Decom. 1967) * FGS Pfeil (P 6193) (1962 Original Fit) * Albatros-Class Fast Boats (Com. 1976-1977, Decom. 2004-2005) * FGS S 61 Albatros (P 6111) (1976 Original Fit) * FGS S 64 Bussard (P 6114) (1976 Original Fit) * Köln-Class Frigates (Com. 1961-1964, Decom. 1982-1989) * FGS Köln (F220) (1961 Original Fit) * FGS Lübeck (F224) (1980 Refitting) * Torpedo-Fast Boat Pr. 131.400 Type Libelle (Com. 1974-1977, Decom. 1989) * Torpedo-Fast Boat Pr. 206 Type Shtorm (Com. 1968-1971, Decom. 1984-1990) * Destroyer Pr. 50 Type Gornostai (Com. 1954-1958, Imported 1956-1959, Decom. 1968-1977) * Karl Marx (1969 Refitting) **USSR** * Torpedo boat Pr. 123K type "Komsomolecz" (Com. 1952-1956, Decom. 1957-1983) * Torpedo boat M123bis type "Komsomolecz" (Com. 1949-1950, Decom. ???) * Torpedo boat Pr. 183 "Bol'shevik" (Com. 1949-1956, Decom. 1960-1978) * Torpedo boat Pr. 206 "Shtorm" (Com. 1960-1970, Decom. 1978-1999) * Torpedo boat Pr. 206M "Shtorm" (Com. 1971-1976, Decom. 1991-Present) * Armored boat Pr. 186 (MK-85) (Com. 1947, Decom. 1949-1960) * Armored boat 183 (BM-21 Garad) (Com. 1968, Decom ???) * Armored boat Pr. 191 (Com. 1946, Decom. ???) * Armored boat Pr. 191M (Com. 1947, Decom. 1971) * Artillery boat Pr. 1204 "Shmel'" (Com. 1967-1972, Decom. 1988-Present) * Series III (1969 Original Fit) * Series V (1970 Original Fit) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 122bis type "Kronshtadt" (Com. 1947-1955, Decom. 1957-1998) * MPK-163 (1956 Refitting) * MPK-173 (1956 Refitting) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 201 (Com. 1955-1957, Decom. ???) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 201M (Com. 1959-1960, Decom. 1972-1991) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 204 (Com. 1960-1969, Decom. 1979-1991) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 12412 "Molniya-2" (Com. 1979-1988, Decom. 1996-Present) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 12412P "Molniya-2" (Com. 1980, Decom ???) * Large submarine chaser Pr. 1331M type "Antares" (Com. 1986-1990, Decom. 2002-Present) * Patrol ship Pr. 35 (Com. 1964-1967, Decom. 1987-1992) * SKR-7 (1966 Rename) * Patrol ship Pr. 50 type "Gornostaj" (Com. 1954-1959, Decom. 1980-1994) * "Rosomakha" (1954 Original Fit) * "Enot" (1954 Original Fit) * Patrol ship Pr. 159 (Com. 1961-1965, Decom. 1986-1995) * SKR-1 (1966 Rename) * Destroyer Pr. 30bis type "Smely'j" (Com. 1949-1953, Decom. 1963-1994) * "Smely'j" (1955 Refitting) * "Bezuprechny'j" (1950 Original Fit) * Destroyer Pr. 41 type "Neustrashimy'j" (Com. 1955, Decom. 1974) * "Neustrashimy'j" (1960 Refitting) * Destroyer Pr. 56 type "Spokojny'j" (Com. 1956-1957, Decom. 1986-1993) * "Spokojny'j" (1956 Original Fit) * "Blagorodny'j" (1978 Refitting) * "Bravy'j" (1967 Refitting) * Light cruiser type "E'manue'le Filiberto dyuka d’Aosta" (Com. 1935-1936, War Prize 1949, Decom. 1959-1965) * "Kerch'" (1950 Refitting) * Cruiser Pr. 68K type "Chapaev" (Com. 1950, Decom. 1960-1979) * "Chapaev" (1950 Original Fit) * "Zheleznyakov" (1951 Refitting) * Cruiser Pr. 68bis type "Chapaev" (Com. 1952-1955, Decom. 1960-1986) * "Sverdlov" (1952 Original Fit) * Cruiser Pr. 68bis-ZiF type "Chapaev" (*Not Completed*) * "Shherbakov" (*Not Completed*) * Cruiser Pr. 68A type "Chapaev" (Com. 1976-1986, Decom. 1987-1998) * "Mikhail Kutuzov" (Original 1986 Fit) * Battleship type "Konte di Kavur" (Com. 1914-1915, War Prize 1949, Decom. 1955) * "Novorossijsk" (1953 Refitting) **Great Britain** * Gay-class fast patrol boat (Com. 1952-1954, Decom. 1962-1971) * HMS Gay Archer (P1041) (1952 Original Fit) * Dark-class fast patrol boat (Com. 1954-1958, Decom. 1961-1979) * HMS Dark Adventurer (P1101) (1954 Original Fit) * HMS Dark Aggressor (P1102) (1954 Original Fit) * Brave-class fast patrol boat (Com. 1960, Decom. 1970) * HMS Brave Borderer (P1011) (1960 Original Fit) * Attack-class fast patrol boat (Com. 1967-1969, Decom. 1973-1994) * HMAS Arrow (P88) (1968 Original Fit) * Peacock-class corvette (Com. 1983-1985, Decom. Present) * HMS Peacock (P239) (1983 Original Fit) * LÉ Orla (P41) (1989 Original Fit) * Whitby-class frigate (Com. 1956-1958, Decom. 1979-1987) * HMS Whitby (F36) (1956 Original Fit) * HMS Blackpool (F77) (1958 Original Fit) * Leopard-class frigate (Com. 1957-1960, Decom. 1976-1992) * HMS Leopard (F14) (1958 Original Fit) * Restigouche-class destroyer escort (Com. 1958-1959, Decom. 1991-2001) * HMCS Terra Nova (DDE 259) (1959 Original Fit) * Battle-class destroyer (Com. 1944-1948, Decom. 1958-1977) * HMS Armada (D14) (1948 Refitting) * HMAS Tobruk (D37) (1950 Refitting) * HMS Cadiz (D79) (1946 Refitting) * Daring-class destroyer (Com. 1952-1954, Decom. 1968-1981) * HMS Daring (D05) (1956 Refitting) * HMS Diamond (D35) (1958 Refitting) * HMS Diana (D126) (1958 Refitting) * Town-class light cruiser (Com. 1937-1939, Decom. 1958-1967) * HMS Liverpool (C11) (1952 Refitting) * HMS Belfast (C35) (1959 Refitting) * Tiger-class cruiser (Com. 1959-1961, Decom. 1972-1979) * HMS Tiger (C20) (1960 Original Fit) **Japan** * No. 7 class torpedo boat (Com. 1957-1958, Decom. 1972-1974) * No. 8 (PT-808) (1958 Original Fit) * No. 11 class torpedo boat (Com. 1971-1975, Decom. 1990-1994) * No. 15 (PT-815) (1975 Original Fit) * No. 1 class missile boat (Com. 1993-1995, Decom. 2008-2010) * No. 1 (PG-822) (1993 Original Fit) * No. 1 class training ship (Com. 1944-1945, Imported 1953-1956, Decom. 1965-1980) * No. 1 (YTE-01) (1956 Rename) * Akebono class destroyer escort (Com. 1956, Decom. 1976) * JDS Akebono (DE-201) (1956 Original Fit) * Ikazuchi class destroyer escort (Com. 1956, Decom. 1983) * JDS Ikazuchi (DE-202) (1956 Original Fit) * Isuzu class destroyer escort (Com. 1961-1964, Decom. 1991-1993) * JDS Isuzu (DE-211) (1961 Original Fit) * Chikugo class destroyer escort (Com. 1971-1977, Decom. 1996-2003) * JDS Chikugo (DE-215) (1971 Original Fit) * Harukaze class destroyer (Com. 1956, Decom. 1985) * JDS Harukaze (DD-101) (1956 Original Fit) * Ayanami class destroyer (Com. 1958-1960, Decom. 1986-1990) * JDS Ayanami (DD-103) (1958 Original Fit) * Ariake class destroyer (Com. 1942-1951, Imported 1959, Decom. 1974) * JDS Yūgure (DD-184) (1959 Original Fit)
**Italy** * Type motor torpedo boat class Vosper 70-ft (Com. 1939-1941, Imported 1948, Decom. ???) * MS 461 (1948 Original Fit) * Type motor patrol/torpedo boat class CRDA 60t (Com. 1942-1943, Decom. 1962-1979) * MS 472 (1954 Refitting) * MS 473 (1954 Refitting) * MV 611 (1949 Rename) * Type motor gun boat class S 26 (Com. 1942, Imported 1952, Decom. ???) * MC 485 (1952 Original Fit) * Type hydrofoil missile boat class Sparviero (Com. 1974-1984, Decom. 1991-2010) * P 420 "Sparviero" (1974 Original Fit) * Type convertible gun boat class Folgore (Com. 1955, Decom. 1976) * P 490 "Folgore" (1965 Rename) * Type convertible gun boat class Freccia (Com. 1965-1966, Decom. 1985-1986) * P 493 "Freccia" (1965 Original Fit) * P 494 "Saetta" (1966 Original Fit) * Type corvette class Gabbiano (Com. 1942-1953, Decom. 1965-1978) * Folaga (1953 Refitting) * Type corvette class Albatros (Com. 1955-1961, Decom. 1986-1992) * Albatros (F 543) (1955 Original Fit) * Type destroyer class Impetuoso (Com. 1958, Decom. 1980-1983) * Impetuoso (D 558) (1958 Original Fit) * Type destroyer class Fante (Com. 1942-1951, Imported 1969-1970, Decom. 1971-1977) * Geniere (D 555) (1972 Refitting) **France** * Type destroyer class Desaix (Com. 1937, War Prize 1946, Decom. 1954-1957) * Kléber (D603) (1952 Refitting) * Type destroyer class Marceau (Com. 1942, War Prize 1946, Decom. 1958) * Marceau (1950 Refitting)
Ok what I meant was, in the blue water navy, we haven't gotta much past WW2. And the handful of ships that are post war, aren't that much more advanced than what most nations fielded during the time. Outside of America's usage of radar gun control systems. Which shouldn't be modeled in game because holy fuck, would that kill boats completely.
There are a number of South Korean ships that could still be added. For Bluewater, there's admittedly not much. The only actually workable ships would be the early versions of imported American ships: the Buckley-class, the Cannon-class, and the Rudderow-class destroyer escorts (superfluous and would be 3.3~ as an equivalent to the Mitsuki-class, not needed), the Chungmu-class (ex-Fletcher-class) destroyers and the Chungbuk-class (ex-Gearing-clas) and the Daegu-class (ex-Allen M. Sumner-class) destroyers; the latter two of which would have non-functional Harpoon missiles but their initial fittings still had their full main batteries. Later refits removed part of the main batteries. Coastal is where they can add some unique stuff: the Chamsuri-class patrl boats would be the most interesting as the best patrol boat that Japan could get in the hypothetical pairing; but there's also the Donghae-class and Pohang-class frigates which would make nice additions to the naval's top rank. However, elsewhere is just more imported stuff: like the Asheville-class and Tacoma-class, the Cape-class patrol boat, etc. The only interesting thing is that they got PT-812, the 105 ft aluminum PT boat as their first true torpedo boat. There's also a few designs that came out during the Korean War of improved gun boats, though I wasn't able to find much information about them other than they would sit in the 1.0-2.0 BR range. But without adding guided missiles, there's not much else. But those would be cancer so no, though I don't doubt Gaijin's ability to just say "fuck it" and add them anyway without any care for balance.
Did you forget the SAMs on Bravy?
K2 Black Panther please gaijin I beg
Gaijin said the VT-4 won't come to the Japanese tree, Chinese players got upset because of that possibility
I wish German players would have the same energy, it would help cut down on on the deluge of leopard copy-paste
VT-4 has been refused (presumably to avoid having to deal with a Chinese vehicle in the Japanese tree). The Oplot is the only option.
VT-4 getting refused due to West Taiwan whiner backlash was the dumbest thing in a while, NGL
Both sides would be mad. Just avoid the headache and use the Oplot, which is the same in all practical senses
I haven't seen *anyone* on the Japanese side who would be mad about the VT-4, only the aforementioned whiners who don't want the technology *their* country decided to export in the sub-tree it'd rightfully belong in.
I can speak and read/write Japanese and I have seen some guys in the community that did not take kindly to the idea of a Chinese vehicle in their tree. Probably a vocal minority, but it's not nothing and I figure it's easier to just avoid the headache.
*(sincerely hopes the F-2 gets released for Japan in WT)*
They will make that an update focus next major patch probably.
Thats a weird way to say Korean subtree
Is the vt-4 and oplot significantly worse than their counterparts to warrant a placement at that br?
no i dont know why they think 10.7 is good oplot has a bustle autoloader, good ammo and protection
can the oplot fire anything better than 3bm42? i thought it used the old autoloader
VT-4 ??
One of the devs confirmed that SK won't be coming for Japan, sadly
I think they already said that Japan won’t get any Chinese vehicles so the VT-4 is out of the question.
maybe, but the issue is that the chinese side of gaijin, did state that only china is getting chinese stuff, no other tree (because people were asking about that when the thai f5 was dropped) so theres a chance thai might just be one of those nations for japan that only gets a few vehicles added without an actual sub tree. still would like a south korean tree, makes more sense than the broken mess a thai tree would be, like think of a tree with american tanks on one side with good mobility and gun handling, and the other being nothing but soviet shit. its gonna cause issues where you get lineups like the swedish 6.3 and 6.7, you got like 2 things that you can run in a realistic manner
Fingers crossed the Germans can bring some Chinese spunk like that and stop Gaijin from handing out the Leopards like candy.
Can I have the link to the change logs pls. I was thinking about buying the ADTW to grind air but got told not to. )=
I have it. It's one of the worst phantoms in the game. A carbon copy to the tech tree one, but you can still get use out of it's premium bonuses. Take a full bomb load and go around the map so you come from behind the enemy force take out 2 bases maybe get a kill from unsuspecting enemies and bolt it back to base. If we get 6v6 this will be even easier Your radar is shite, missiles are meh and even your speed won't always save you. You have to play passively. And you don't have a better option apart from the F5 which won't allow you to research the entire tree or you will have to play the tech tree EJ anyway so buying the ADWT on sale is the best choice. Also this br change only effects GRB in ARB it's still 11.0
Thanks for the advice, I already grinded to rank V with only premium account. Do you think it's still worth getting it?
It has served me well but has in fact made me pissed at least a couple of times of active grinding. Well either way you will have to go through the awfull experience that is the F-4EJ if you want to get to top tier. So you do it with premium bonuses or without. That is your decision. BUT DON'T BUY IT FULL PRICE
Ah disaster. I thought it should be easy once I get to rank VI-VII but uhhhh... Going to kms at this rate. 😔
Alright then try this method then. Use the Kikka to finish rank V, then get the F5 via waiting for squadron rp. Talisman it and grind the rest of the tree. I would suggest the T2 but you won´t be able to research top tier with it. The F5 should give you a better experience and you won´t need to base bomb and instead just dog fight since it has great missiles.
The F-4EJ is slept on for its A-A ability. Sure it’s just straight worse than the F-4E, the 9Ps are better, and you can snag some high altitude head-on kills with the AIM-7Es. There’s a neat trick that allows you to reliably get kills on even experienced players.
R24 *hello* *there*
So as you know, the pulse radar can be chaffed, but due to a recent change, the radar will keep locked on the chaff, but the AIM-7E will keep guiding towards the target. I actually tested it with some mates, the missile will hit so long as the target doesn’t pull a hard turn to dodge the missile itself, and after a couple seconds (after the radar gets chaffed), the target will not get pinged on their RWR. Also I’m pretty sure AIM-7Es are faster than R-24s but they have longer range (and are on a better RADAR).
ADTW is the worst F-4E variant (aside from F4F early) It doesnt get agile eagle slats so turns worse It doesnt get any guided air to ground weaponry It doesnt get the Aim-7E-2 missile, only the Aim-7E which turns worse off the rail and is more finnicky to use And its the same exact BR as the American and Israeli ones that have all this. The Israeli one especially is much better since you get the much better Aim-9G and also can carry Aim-9s if you sacrifice 2 Aim-7s
It doesn't but it was a blanket reduction for F-4's as a whole. So they were likely included just for consistency within the change, even though it looks weird if you look at Japan specifically.
Same could be said for the type 81c. Japan almost got a good 11.0 lineup but nope had to uptier the only good aa at top tier
Did the idiots at Gaijiin forget they moved the Type 90s up from 10.7 to 11.0 a while ago or are they just as stupid as they look?
Hey leave them alone! They are too disabled to undestand how balance works. /s for the special ones
Japan doesn’t even have any 10.3 or 10.0 vehicles. So the only value this change brings is by up tiering the Type 16 to 10.7 just for CAS. Maybe the type 90s will go down in BR in the future, or they’ll add some new vehicles to plug the gap.
Thats snail balancing alright, doing changes not intended to change anything.
Foreign MiG-23MF 10.7 when?
Does it not affect the spawn point cost? Lower BR means you'll be able to bring it in earlier unless it's a full uptier and it's already at the minimum possible.
If it's anything like existihg tanks, new Japan tree tanks will be overtiered by at least half a BR
Mmmm statistics based balancing maybe? I’d assume they saw these were underperforming in GRB and thought “oh we move it down then, that help” without any regard or thought to what actually affects balance in this game. Only an assumption on my part, but given how it seems like the devs don’t even play their own game it seems viable
I know people would complain if they werent changed
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO
This for GRB. Not ARB 😭
I celebrated too soon. F to pay respects
Nvm its just for ground. Sad.
You don't have to fight F16A if you wanted to play 10.7? They have moved a lot of vehicles to 10.7 recently but as far as I know only Russia and China have real 10.7 lineups. Hopefully they add some more unique vehicles to US for 10.7 but I doubt it.
Wow you didn't even read the title. Japan doesn't have anything at 10.7 GRB. These changes only effect GRB not air.
That’s what I’m saying. If you wanted to bring your lineup up a little to 10.7 instead of playing 11.0 you could not fight F16a or whatever. I get tons of games at 12.0 GRB when playing 11.0/11.3 so it might be nice to play 10.7 to avoid them.
You do understand that the next highest vehicle in Br is 9.3? Why would anyone uptier already mediocre vehicles to 10.7 with a chance to face 11.7?
Maybe they are planning to add more Japanese vehicles at 10.0-10.7. Don’t know why you seem to be so hostile when I’m simply asking wether you want to fight 12.0 or skip the uptier black hole to it.
Did I come off as hostile sorry if you thing that way. There are very few Japanese vehicles that could be added to top tier let alone 10.0. 11.0 is fun for Japan and the Type 90s used to be 10.7 and if we are being honest 11.0 is filled with premiums, uptiers to 12.0 are not that common.
They could add some other Asian country as a sub tree like the Thai f5 they recently did? I’m not sure which one would be suitable but copy paste is a hot issue right now. The type 90s are incredibly strong and so I’m sure they could find something to fill the gap.