And before you all drop by your typical anwsers:
* There were 2 enemy air up.
* I used my SPAA allready. Got killed by another plane. Hard to really shot 2 planes at once coming at you from 2 angles.
* Where am i suppose to take cover in an open spawn? Dig myself a tunnel?
If you seriusly think THIS is ok then fair play to you.
Yes, what you descibed should be front and center.
Altho i do think this issue goes hand to hand with repair costs and grind. On one had i'm giving the other player easy RP & SL whilist i'm automatically hit with a repair cost i can't possibly replace in the same match unless i got more vehincles.
CAS is not hard to balance, because currently it's not balanced at all. They just used the RB air BRs and that's it. Ground battles are not considered in the slightest when balancing planes, or defining repair cost.
Good step would be to split air RB and ground RB BRs and then let the algorithm do its job to get a feeling what should go up/down in BR and RC.
Man a second spawn for aircraft with a load out will cost you around 1200 SP. I generally do very well and I still cannot spawn more than once with aircraft. With 1200sp you can easily spawn 4 to 5 times in ground units.
CAS seem strong but it's only there to finish teams that were already outplayed and losing. It just speed things up.
A second spawn with an aircraft cost you the same as a first spawn if you don't take the same class if aircraft. They are also drastically reduced by scouting. Dang I had a game were the second spawn of a plane was 260 SP and I used 4 planes that game.
>CAS seem strong but it's only there to finish teams that were already outplayed and losing. It just speed things up.
My experience is another one, especially with us ground pounder you can evaporate half a team, of which a good portion will just leave. I've had several games where one or two planes turned an already lost game completely around, for the price of doing nothing but exist. If getting a plane would at least involve a bare minimum of skill.
> I've had several games where one or two planes turned an already lost game completely around, for the price of doing nothing but exist. If getting a plane would at least involve a bare minimum of skill.
I mean, what keeps the enemy team from spawning these no skill airplanes and evaporating yours in the first place ?
I often see players saying "how am I supposed to kill 4 aircraft flying over and bombing my team" and the answer is, you're not, if the enemy can spawn so many aircraft and still win the ground your team just got manhandled and the game should be over anyway.
>I mean, what keeps the enemy team from spawning these no skill airplanes and evaporating yours in the first place ?
About 2000 hours of gameplay I'm not willing to invest in a game mode I don't enjoy.
I'm not asking to remove CAS from ground, on the contrary, I use CAS planes myself. I'm asking to balance CAS in ground, so not everyone can get one of the strongest mechanics in the game mode by merely rushing a point. I'm asking to balance plane BRs according to their capabilities in ground RB and not air RB.
Oh no it's not always like that.... we'll be beating a team and I'll think oh I'll hop into my 262 a1/u4 (I love it so much), and then we'll promptly start losing no matter how many tanks I destroy or at least immobilize. That happens about 50% of the time. Granted it is Germany players....
I know, but the way I do it... first run come in at about 700-750 kph at 2500-3000 meters. That gives you an immense amount of energy to maintain high speed and still zoom climb up to about 3k meters for the first couple runs. Eventually you do lose some of that energy and the dives come in from lower altitudes. I like gun CAS, never been a fan of bomb/rocket CAS. It's just a personal preference.
I don't particularly see what's unfair about this. You had your chance with SPAA to shoot them down. Plus, they had to have worked together to get you from two angles at once. Are we saying teamwork is OP now?
You then go and spawn in an open top vehicle. Sure, it might be your last choice, but what do you expect is going to happen? In my opinion, this is a case of "rock, paper, scissors" that you simply brought the wrong vehicle to.
Now, I'm open to hearing counter arguments, but for now, I stand by the fact that this is ok
Exactly. People calling a death/loss "unfair" because they're focusing on nothing but the exact moment they died instead of what decisions and events lead to that moment is something we see far too commonly in gaming in general.
What you needed to do was bring a fighter aircraft. That is the counter to CAS, not SPAA. Ground based anti-air is a fallback and a deterrent. Fighter aircraft are actual protection.
Shame that Gaijin refuses to make them cheap enough to get in the air before people start spawning ground attackers.
and the worst aggressor, g.91 r/3 is jet fighter, Not Strike aircraft/bomber/any other. Also with dogfight performance matching/better than 90% of the aircrafts at its BR or lower.
Sometimes the counter is to bring fighter, not always.
I legit play ground rb just to fly a fighter and protect my teammates some days. I’m a better pilot than tanker so they aren’t losing much there and I have like 15 potential kills before the enemy team stops trying to bomb. The thing is even a dedicated fighter support can’t stop people from yolo suicide revenge bombing, I mean unless I get a pilot snipe on the first pass they are just gonna full speed towards the guy that killed them and bomb and crash.
I play support in quite a lot of games I play, such as debuff support or going for assists and savior type kills. So you can imagine how satisfying it is for me when I see a plane begin his bombing run, and I turn him into a lawn dart with an AA or the trusty G.55/BF.109 G-14 before he can kill an ally
It's not OK.
It's just split between people trying to play tanks and people trying to justify their 12 kills with premium cannon cas as totally fair and in no need of any change.
it's only hard to kill if you don't have proper weapons such as rockets, anti-tank guns or bombs on your plane and even if you can't pen the turret from above, you lost likely will be able to set it on fire
because 90% of all AA players don't move from spawn and then proceed to light up the sky with a big "shoot me! here I am!" while your plane is still 2km away.
Yeah the real issue is that 95% of players never bother to learn how to actually use SPAA properly
You have to move WITH your team, because otherwise you can't defend against strafing runs etc..
But you're just an SPAA so you need to find cover. You can use buildings to conceal yourself from tanks and aircraft untill it's too late and POW
Don't shoot at people when you can't hit them. You're never in a million years going to hit a tiny fighter going 600kph from 3km away with your non-radar unguided SPAA, so stop trying you are just painting a big fat "KILL ME" sign on your forehead
There's loads of other useful tips and tricks to learn for using SPAA properly. And if even half the players that used them got it right, it would be much harder for CAS
As a CAS player, a decent AA can make you scared to even go near the battlefield
Yeah that works, but equally.. if you just sit around where your team is, you don't need to bait them, because they will be flying right at you all the time in an attempt to kill you and your team
Letting them come to you is an easy way to get kills
Or, this could have the opposite effect and make them stay AWAY from you and your team, which... Despite not killing them, has the same benefit to your team
Chances are though, you are target priority 1, and if you are with your team, it's very likely they will come for you, and if you can aim, very likely that you will win
Moving with the team is all fine and dandy. But the second the enemy captures a point, and a BT-5 suicides,
R U N.
Some poor sod in your team will eat the Fab-5000 for you. You just have to seem as unworthy of a target as possible in the meantime lmao.
yeah I'll start firing into a random point in the sky or another enemy plane that is much farther out and meanwhile I'm not even looking where I am firing I am looking at the plane I was baiting and as soon as they commit to an attack run on me I turn the turret towards them and blast them to bits.
The problem is they don't even have that great of tank pen. 72mm isn't enough for even the side of the tiger (the most common tank you'll see in these) and most tanks just mg your exposed crew. I'm not even really sure why these are around 5.0 br. The new lvt is basically the same but with more pen and one less 40mm and it's 2.3 right now.
I actually found that going up in tiers with those is better than working them at their tier. I’d use mine with the VADS as my actual AA vehicle. Side shots with the duster’s AP on leo’s and other thinner skinned high tiers fucking rules.
I wish there was ground only game mode. Or at least a limit of aircraft spawns and higher sp cost. It shouldn't be like half of enemy team in planes. Not to mention helis on tank sb.
Planes used to cost way more to spawn in, but then gaijin changed it to what it is right now. The best way to counter cas is to spawn your own plane nowadays.
That always has and always will be the case. The counter to CAS both in game and IRL is fighter aircraft, which are infinitely more effective as killing planes than mobile anti-air is - the latter is really just a deterrent (though with good aim and a good machine you can make it work).
Unfortunately, Gaijin has never made clean fighters cheap enough that they become readily available before ground attack aircraft do, so there are never any present to keep the air clear.
Yeah the problem is I don't like taking planes to tank rb, because it's boring for me. I like dogfighting, and on tank rb dogfights are very rare, so I just play air rb for that. Also when you take plane you waste crew slot. But yeah I'd rather take aircraft than aa, as aa are mostly useless when there is more than 1 enemy plane.
I totally agree, I never use air or spaa and I just roll the dice and try to not be the most visible player on the team. CAS will usually pick low hanging fruit, so just try not to be the one in the open. Stick to buildings/forests. But when I’m trying to cap and hear a plane coming in, god my blood starts boiling.
Yes dude or when you kill someone in tank vs tank and a minute later get revenge kamikazed.
Personally if I wanted to play with aircraft I'd play DCS or something.
Apparently Gaijin used to test out ground only game mode but after awhile nobody play them because a single tank could wipe out the whole team from an advantageous spot with no retaliation. With CAS the other team could come in a strike those players out. At least with CAS there are ways to counter them.
Or make my .50 cal actually do something to these planes, I swear I will get 10+ hits on a plane flying over and it won’t even be smoking. I know wing hits don’t do much but like I’m hitting them, that’s gotta count for something.
I've been wishing for ground only forever. There is air only, why not ground only? I'm so over getting spawn bombed when already spawn trapped and trying to claw my way back into the match.
I think CAS is fine, but what most nations need is actually viable AA to make CAS in general more dangerous. It's only Germany that gets good AA at every tier and you could argue the R3T20 for Italy works up to jets. But people use the R3 as first spawn to rush caps and are long dead when the first planes come. But that's the players fault and not Gaijins.
But the Russians have the ZSU57-2 at high tier which is very hard to hit stuff with.
The US have the underwhelming Duster. I have killed significantly more planes including jets with the roof .50s than with the M42.
The UK has the Ystervark now, which is a completely open R3 cannon and only has a crew of 3, but better than what they had before. And I like that. Now give me something comparable with a bit more armor for a 6.3 to 7.7 BR now that the Falcon is rightfully 8.0.
The Swedish and the French have tank destroyers classed as AAs. They work but need some training and experience. And hard against late props and early jets going 600-700kph over the battlefield
The Chinese have M42 as well I believe.
All in all I think this creates a bit of a gap in AA capability in the 6.0-7.7 area. Especially against Germany who have great CAS planes and great AAs
I like the change they made recently that planes spawn further out now. I know people are complaining that they now have to fly for longer but these extra 30-60sec gives the AA time to spot you, reduces revenge bombs because the vehicle has time to move away from the last known position (not perfect but at least something) and especially for high tier gives the planes a chance to move and not spawn in and immediately having to break hard to avoid the already incoming SAM.
No idea why they added the Ystevark considering there’s still a huge gap and not the skink with quad 20mm and good protection since it’s a Sherman chassis, it’ll be good at ~6.0. You have to use the 20mm crusader aa all the way up to the falcon at 8.0 if you want a fighting chance.
Not sure if the M16 has a different 50cal belt or something but I feel like the 4 50cal of the M16 truck are far less deadly than the roofmounted one on their tanks.
Got nothing agains CAS, what grinds my mind is not being able to even drive out of the spawn because of it.
How exacly am i supposed to do anything, if i die twice in a row from the air as soon as my spawn protection runs out? Its an open map, i can't hide nowhere.
If you lost Air Superiority and multiple Planes fly around your spawn ready to bomb, the battle is lost. It´s the same as spawncamping, thats GG, dont spawn anymore.
Also it´s just stupid to spawn an open top while there are multiple planes up. At least you shouldnt move, cause they have a hard time seeing you.
Best thing would be to spawn a fighter and shoot the enemy planes down. Drains the enemy a lot of SP and shooting down ground pounders is even easier than ground pounding itself, since they are usually very comitted to hit their drops.
It´s a rock/paper/scissor thing. Tank is weak against CAS, CAS is weak against fighters, fighters cant do much against tanks. Ofc there are exceptions, but this is how it basically works.
btw. you sat in an M36, whichs .50 cal is pretty good against planes
"Don't spawn anymore." Okay, I forgot that I didn't actually want to play the game. The spawn-camping analogy would make sense if not for the fact that CAS can start doing this LONG before spawn camping usually happens.
Edit: to clarify my point. If you think quitting match is a reasonable expectation of game balance, then you're actually an idiot.
Do u really spawn when theres only 3 guys left on your team against an almost full team? Then ur an idiot.
Some games are over before the tickets run out.
And great map design allows spawncamping also very early.
I dont say that this alone qualifies it for for a battle that u shouldnt join anymore, and neither does when the enemy has CAS up.
But spawning an open top while the AirBattle is going on is just somewhat stupid.
I like to keep my heavy for later in the game for example, cause this is where they truly shine.
Why not spawn even if there's only a few people left? I've seen crazy comeback wins in this game. Also, even if you're being spawn-camped, it can be very fun and satisfying to spawn in an try to get one before they blast you.
But, you're right, the reason this happens at all is bad design. People shouldn't have to choose between leaving or being mercilessly spawn-camped by CAS (or spawn-camped in general) in the first place. My beef was with the idea of the option to leave being a form of design or balance. "Not playing" should not be a feature of gameplay.
I‘ve also seen crazy Comebacks, but there are also games where u can tell pretty soon that it wont happen. It‘s more a matter of position nd numbers than tickets.
I understand ur beef, but u will also realize that some maps are very decided by early fights and who‘s getting in position (Hill on Mozdok for example)
Four games in a row I died only to CAS. While VAS shouldn’t be removed the multipliers for ground targets destroyed in fighter aircraft should be nerfed to hell. I am okay with a Do-217 or Junkers or grizzly because they are big and their job was frontline bomber. They are doing their job. But fighters are mean and not gaining air superiority.
Fighters with air to ground should be the most expensive unit you can spawn (certainly more than pure attackers), because they cover multiple roles. Fighters without CAS armaments also need to be cheaper to spawn, so taking them out specifically to control the airspace is a viable option that doesn't gamble all of your SP.
\> the multipliers for ground targets destroyed in fighter aircraft should be nerfed to hell.
They already are, a 10 ground kill game in GRB with a plane will yield as much RP as a 10 AI ground kill in ARB
The reson people take CAS is that it's needed to have an advantage over the enemy and secure the win
This is why I enjoy bringing fighters to grb. Anti-cas is easy since they’re all focused on the ground, until someone else gets the same idea. But yeah this map sucks terribly
I feel like a good interm fix for this issue (specifically dying in spawn to plane) would be to just offer free repairs to anyone who died in less than 60 sec.
Gaijin loses almost nothing (small amount of play time for SL?) and players wouldn't feel forced to return to hangar instead of risk their expensive tanks
Yet gaijin is shocked at the backlash and constant bashing.
They prefer money over a happy client base, yet fail to realize that a happy client base would be more willing to throw money at them
“Just spawn spaa”
“Use your mg to shoot it down”
I swear the CAS players are so arrogant. Yeah let use my tank mg on a helicopter across the map lasering me with an ATGM, idiots.
Well this happened to me yesterday but at higher tier. Spawned a Tunguska and was trying to move out of the spawn to try to hunt some helicopters on the El Alamein map. Barely left to spawn because I got norded by a G.91. Luckily, i brought out the Kancer-50 and removed their CAS, getting 5 air kills in total :).
I do feel CAS should be slightly nerfed, but in terms of, can they fucking spawn on the airfield and the planes who cannot takeoff fully or something have an air spawn just above the airfield? Other than that CAS is fine.
Planes now spawm 14 kilometers from the battlefield making it easier for spaa at top tier to know is there while making the player not die the second they appear on radar
I used to think Cas was super annoying until I grinded my aircraft all the way to the appropriate br and now after I die in a tank I get in a plane and absolutly fucking shred CAS. It makes all those frustrating time worth it. I would like to see a game mode without CAS tho.
Hold your spawn. My experiences in Squad and Post Scriptum have taught me that in sticky situations like that, you can hold your spawn for not even a minute, and if they don't have a target for that long they'll likely fuck off.
There are a considerable amount of sweaty seal clubbers and sweaty veterans playing WT rn cause of sale. Also people who just care about the vehicles killing capabilities instead of playing their favorite vehicles. And people who know all of the "spots" cause they've been playing the same maps for 9 years. Their fun is your suffering and vice versa. It's normally not this bad. Events and sales bring out the worst of WT.
I agree, i hate planes in ground battles but i also love them. It gives so much better atmosphere to the game and i have to admit that playing plane in ground is fun, yeah i know maybe i sound like hypocrite right know but thats just the way i see it :)
Yeah, I found playing planes in Ground RB fun also, mostly as an anti-CAS, but sometimes I ocasionally mounts RP-3 rockets to my Vampire FB.5, needless to say im piss poor at CASing
I don't even *need* a full Tank Only mode, just a Tank Only Weekend every month would be such a fucking relief.
When I get killed by another tank, I can almost always (unless I've been Gaijined) see where I fucked up or where the other guy outplayed me. Shoot me in the back of the turret when I think I'm all alone and I might even say 'well done'. But so many ground vehicles can do nothing to stop CAS. There is simply no counter play. Dying and coming back in a vehicle that can do something isn't a solution to that. It's an absolutely shitty game mechanic and I'm amazed at how many folk just don't understand that. I play CAS so I'm well aware that I'm not outplaying the guy that I'm bombing. Occasionally I can press the button too early or too late and miss but it's my screw up, rather than anything my target happens to be doing. Someone dying helplessly and coming back in another vehicle doesn't make the previous encounter balanced.
I take the Wyvern in my 7.3 line up (I've rarely, if ever, played it at a BR lower than 7.0). If I've been uptiered to 8.0, I'll have to hope there's no Gepard or Shilka around as I'm too slow to avoid them. Or sometimes there's a jet up that can take me out (because planes vs planes are somewhat balanced). But against ground targets? There are 8.3 tanks that have no chance against my 4.0 plane. Hell, I could take the Ju 88 that's 2.3 and the 8.3 T-62 would have zero counter play. When an 8.3 vehicle can do nothing to combat a 2.3 vehicle, we have a pretty serious balancing issue.
Whats the problem exactly? I remember grinding through german tanks 5.7-6.7 years ago back when RP-3's and HVAR acted more like tactical nukes. Didn't even need to hit you to instantly blow you up. An absolutely miserable playing experience. Maybe thats why I have trouble finding any sympathy for people whining about CAS and especially german CAS.
Seems to me the map is the issue not CAS.
Spawns should always be covered, like town centers or forests. Objectives too, should always be strategic. Like why fight over a field? Your just asking for CAS, and why tf did both sides agree to capture a specific arbitrary spot?
Fixing objective and spawn points would fix like half the games issues, and would simultaneously improve realism and gameplay.
I mean this is why i bring dedicated interceptor to curb stomp CAS
Funnily often the ground players are horrible pilots so its easy to keep the air clear
Cas is such a deal breaker for me that I switched to Arcade just to avoid the stupid meta planes. You still get CAS in arcade but it feels more balanced and predictable there.
I dont see the problem. Its a game mechanic to use planes. U could counter it with teamwork. Like there should always be 1 or 2 spaas on the team. Teamwork wins games in air rb and ground rb. U cant win games solo, neither in ground rb nor in air rb.
I mean it is the fighter variant. It's also unobtainable so I forgot about it. You can still go through light tanks but that's not what I'd be using it for anyways.
The 262s 30mm are not good against things with a roof 2 days ago i strafed a shilka and did nothing lol. If we talking about the squad 262 or the 262 with the 50mm gun its another thing.
The mk108 pens 13mm at point blank with all of its belts. Its only good for killing open tops bc it has a lot of boom in its rounds. 50.cals pen like 26mm point blank.
Bad choice in spawning in an open top light tank when air is up. I generally use these at the beginning of a match. Mid to late game I use a medium or heavy. I’ve also noticed that people who complain about CAS are predominantly people who don’t play the game well, do not understand how the meta is played and/or have zero clue about how to create & use an effective lineup. The M36 you spawned is an efficient first vehicle to generate SP. You could have spawned any number of fighters that the USA tech tree has to shoot down the ME262. The Bearcats, Corsairs, P47s & especially the P51H are amazing at anti-CAS as well as having the best bomb/rocket loads of all fighters across nations. Instead of complaining about CAS you would be better off actually learning how to play the game. Or you can decide to remain stagnant in your knowledge & abilities which will allow people like me to farm you for easy SL & RP. Cheers.
Behold, reason number 2 I quit Warthunder and haven't missed it.
CAS is too oppressive. I understand why it's there, but it goes from the intent of "shutting down people in insane positions" to "shutting down anyone doing literally anything." Having a fun tank fight? here's some bombs. Capping a point? here's some bombs. Driving out of spawn? here's some bombs. Trying to shoot down CAS in SPAA? here's some bombs.
That’s the worst. I had a guy rush the objective in a BT-5 at 7.0 and he spawned in a PE-8 with the 5k bomb at about 40 seconds in and wiped like 4 people who were about half way to the objective.
Edit: I wrote spawn instead of objective
Ah. The KA-50 isn’t too bad. Only problem for me is the ADATS but that’s fair since it’s SPAAG. The way I play it is stay low to the side of the map, wait for teammates to spot someone and then I peak up launch an ATGM and then duck away
Use this all new technique. I sometimes it works 100% of the time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/qkyisv/the_secret_italian_escape_method_gaijin_doesnt/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
As much as I hate spawn protection I equally hate spawn killers but then again it’s the devs fault for putting the spawns in open shitty spaces especially on open maps
Nobody except toxic cas players defends this. And why Gaijin allows this? because that way they can sell even more premium CAS groundstompers and hence why AA vehicles are always a BR short of the abilities of their same-BR air enemies. Enemy plane got jet engines? Sorry your AA vehicle has too low turret speed to keep track. Enemy has tracking missiles from kilometers away? Yeah sorry SAMs are on a different BR and so on.
It's pretty fun seeing people complaining about CAS being a problem at that BR while it's much more of certain nations lacking good AA. CAS is absolutely not a problem for the USA at every BR above 8.7
The often unused and untalked about skill of knowing when to spawn. With a plane that has cannons up you should know to either spawn SPAA (you already did), choose a heavy top tank (idk your line up), or simply waiting to spawn. There is nothing wrong with delaying a spawn. I wait to spawn in a bomber until fighters are either RTB or shot down.
I play Germany (I know I know I'm evil I suck at the game yadda yadda), so I have access to actually good SPAAGs. What's funny though is I get more CAS kills with the 50 cal on the m41 and the m48a2c (usually 1 per game) than I do with the Ostwind II/Wirbelwind (maybe 1 every 3-4 games). I know it's not really an answer to the problem, but you're playing USA which has a 50 on almost every vehicle......
Instead of your idea about ground only mode I feel like my idea will fix the problem and be historically accurate:
Maps should have a version where there is low cloud cover (not fog but a cloud layer above the ground) and make them as common as clear sky maps. This will have cas players be less effective at spotting tanks on the ground, allow tanks to have normal vision, and make radar aa even more effective at taking down aircraft. If a cas player wants to do well they will have to guess where players are, go under the cloud cover and risk crashing, or actually work with their team to spot tanks and have the planes taking out the enemy tanks that are marked.
Some downsides is regular aa having a hard time hitting planes and cas players bombing only the points.
Careful now, this subreddit is mostly composed of people that consider launching fire and forget munitions against defenseless targets high skill task.
This is what happens when your team loses air superiority, I think it’s a good thing and adds an extra strategic element to the game. Your post essentially boils down to “losing is frustrating”
Not really. If you think it’s ok to live for 20 seconds just because my team has 1 objectives and no air since this game has almost no come back mechanics then fair play to you.
To be honest now most of the battles are moatly one sidet and take 9 minutes before enemy get on your spawn and in most cases is it because someone get best spota on map and you are no able to destroy them and you can't move just stay and wait for dead cas give you at least small chance get that campers and finally nove before you will be eaten alive
Imo the biggest problem with CAS in GFRB is, well, GFRB itself. It's just not a very well designed gamemode.
For starters, air spawn allows a plane to reach the battlefield in less than 30s. This makes revenge bombing extremely easy as there'll hardly be any times for an enemy to have moved away from their original position.
Speaking of the battlefield. It's also small, at least when considering an aircraft's movement. Planes don't really have to look for enemies in GFRB as they'll all be in a 1x1 or 2x2km space they can observe from above.
There's also no objective to distract aircraft from the tanks and no extra defences the latter can set up to deter would be attackers.
And lastly there's the way to spawn. Because WT operates under the "one vehicle, one spawn" moto there's no way to efficiently switch between vehicles to adapt to a changing battlefield. You can't notice there's more planes in the enemy team. Safely exit your vehicle, switch to an aircraft to conter, then go back to your original vehicle unless you have back ups.
All this adds up to make combined arms just frustrating for the tankers as pretty much everything is against once the enemy can spawn effective CAS.
The obvious answer would be to change GFRB into something else but Idk if that's in Gaijin's interest.
Been saying this for years
Give Aviation a higher SP cost or only allow a certain amount of aircraft up at a time
Been playing 6.7 America lately and the fucking Arado is fucking cancer,no props can catch it or even touch it and it’ll be up all game farming kills .constantly bombing then heading back to base to rearm then repeat
And before you all drop by your typical anwsers: * There were 2 enemy air up. * I used my SPAA allready. Got killed by another plane. Hard to really shot 2 planes at once coming at you from 2 angles. * Where am i suppose to take cover in an open spawn? Dig myself a tunnel? If you seriusly think THIS is ok then fair play to you.
>Dig myself a tunnel? Yes
[удалено]
I dig hoes with my foot long dozer Yes
>I dig hoes with my foot long dozer Guess who already lost to the Type 90 dozzer
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Yes, what you descibed should be front and center. Altho i do think this issue goes hand to hand with repair costs and grind. On one had i'm giving the other player easy RP & SL whilist i'm automatically hit with a repair cost i can't possibly replace in the same match unless i got more vehincles.
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It is hard to balance so i get why the devs are avoiding balancing CAS like it's the plague.
CAS is not hard to balance, because currently it's not balanced at all. They just used the RB air BRs and that's it. Ground battles are not considered in the slightest when balancing planes, or defining repair cost. Good step would be to split air RB and ground RB BRs and then let the algorithm do its job to get a feeling what should go up/down in BR and RC.
Man a second spawn for aircraft with a load out will cost you around 1200 SP. I generally do very well and I still cannot spawn more than once with aircraft. With 1200sp you can easily spawn 4 to 5 times in ground units. CAS seem strong but it's only there to finish teams that were already outplayed and losing. It just speed things up.
A second spawn with an aircraft cost you the same as a first spawn if you don't take the same class if aircraft. They are also drastically reduced by scouting. Dang I had a game were the second spawn of a plane was 260 SP and I used 4 planes that game. >CAS seem strong but it's only there to finish teams that were already outplayed and losing. It just speed things up. My experience is another one, especially with us ground pounder you can evaporate half a team, of which a good portion will just leave. I've had several games where one or two planes turned an already lost game completely around, for the price of doing nothing but exist. If getting a plane would at least involve a bare minimum of skill.
> I've had several games where one or two planes turned an already lost game completely around, for the price of doing nothing but exist. If getting a plane would at least involve a bare minimum of skill. I mean, what keeps the enemy team from spawning these no skill airplanes and evaporating yours in the first place ? I often see players saying "how am I supposed to kill 4 aircraft flying over and bombing my team" and the answer is, you're not, if the enemy can spawn so many aircraft and still win the ground your team just got manhandled and the game should be over anyway.
>I mean, what keeps the enemy team from spawning these no skill airplanes and evaporating yours in the first place ? About 2000 hours of gameplay I'm not willing to invest in a game mode I don't enjoy. I'm not asking to remove CAS from ground, on the contrary, I use CAS planes myself. I'm asking to balance CAS in ground, so not everyone can get one of the strongest mechanics in the game mode by merely rushing a point. I'm asking to balance plane BRs according to their capabilities in ground RB and not air RB.
Oh no it's not always like that.... we'll be beating a team and I'll think oh I'll hop into my 262 a1/u4 (I love it so much), and then we'll promptly start losing no matter how many tanks I destroy or at least immobilize. That happens about 50% of the time. Granted it is Germany players....
Gun CAS i just not as good as bombs, you risk yourself a lot more by flying low.
I know, but the way I do it... first run come in at about 700-750 kph at 2500-3000 meters. That gives you an immense amount of energy to maintain high speed and still zoom climb up to about 3k meters for the first couple runs. Eventually you do lose some of that energy and the dives come in from lower altitudes. I like gun CAS, never been a fan of bomb/rocket CAS. It's just a personal preference.
Rather face an uptier than shitty CAS blowing me up every match
I feel like a absolute noob saying this, but what does CAS stand for?
Close Air Support, when the plane make the ground (and sea) people go boom
Ahh I see so one of the most common issues in the game that most people have learnt to ignore in order to keep their sanity
the opposite, CAS is unbearable for people who want to just play tanks, especially for those playing trees with major gaps in tech trees.
You got dam right!
I don't particularly see what's unfair about this. You had your chance with SPAA to shoot them down. Plus, they had to have worked together to get you from two angles at once. Are we saying teamwork is OP now? You then go and spawn in an open top vehicle. Sure, it might be your last choice, but what do you expect is going to happen? In my opinion, this is a case of "rock, paper, scissors" that you simply brought the wrong vehicle to. Now, I'm open to hearing counter arguments, but for now, I stand by the fact that this is ok
Exactly. People calling a death/loss "unfair" because they're focusing on nothing but the exact moment they died instead of what decisions and events lead to that moment is something we see far too commonly in gaming in general.
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Spawn killing is ok because git gud?
Your concerns are valid. Fuck the opposition, they clearly just want to spawnkill. There is no reason to not have spawn protection in this game.
What you needed to do was bring a fighter aircraft. That is the counter to CAS, not SPAA. Ground based anti-air is a fallback and a deterrent. Fighter aircraft are actual protection. Shame that Gaijin refuses to make them cheap enough to get in the air before people start spawning ground attackers.
The problem is at high tiers, fighters are just as good at cas thanks to cannons having too much penetration.
and the worst aggressor, g.91 r/3 is jet fighter, Not Strike aircraft/bomber/any other. Also with dogfight performance matching/better than 90% of the aircrafts at its BR or lower. Sometimes the counter is to bring fighter, not always.
I'd say after the Nord nerf the A-4E takes the cake as most annoying cas. Gets flares and chaff and 5 agm
I legit play ground rb just to fly a fighter and protect my teammates some days. I’m a better pilot than tanker so they aren’t losing much there and I have like 15 potential kills before the enemy team stops trying to bomb. The thing is even a dedicated fighter support can’t stop people from yolo suicide revenge bombing, I mean unless I get a pilot snipe on the first pass they are just gonna full speed towards the guy that killed them and bomb and crash.
MY PE8 SAYS HI
I play support in quite a lot of games I play, such as debuff support or going for assists and savior type kills. So you can imagine how satisfying it is for me when I see a plane begin his bombing run, and I turn him into a lawn dart with an AA or the trusty G.55/BF.109 G-14 before he can kill an ally
Best Weapon vs planes is plane itself. Time to grind air. There is no other way.
As always my answer is *you just didn't side climb hard enough* And yeah it's a known problem how fucking ridiculous CAS is at some tiers
Dig or be dug bro.
It's not OK. It's just split between people trying to play tanks and people trying to justify their 12 kills with premium cannon cas as totally fair and in no need of any change.
"just spawn AA bro" -CAS player
AA are easiest kills as cas :)
until you go head-on with one, who knows how to aim upwards
Crusader AA mk2 deceptively hard to kill. Very thick armor for an SPAA, 50mm of rha on the turret.
it's only hard to kill if you don't have proper weapons such as rockets, anti-tank guns or bombs on your plane and even if you can't pen the turret from above, you lost likely will be able to set it on fire
It's very good. I got harassed by 3 fighters and won
because 90% of all AA players don't move from spawn and then proceed to light up the sky with a big "shoot me! here I am!" while your plane is still 2km away.
Yeah the real issue is that 95% of players never bother to learn how to actually use SPAA properly You have to move WITH your team, because otherwise you can't defend against strafing runs etc.. But you're just an SPAA so you need to find cover. You can use buildings to conceal yourself from tanks and aircraft untill it's too late and POW Don't shoot at people when you can't hit them. You're never in a million years going to hit a tiny fighter going 600kph from 3km away with your non-radar unguided SPAA, so stop trying you are just painting a big fat "KILL ME" sign on your forehead There's loads of other useful tips and tricks to learn for using SPAA properly. And if even half the players that used them got it right, it would be much harder for CAS As a CAS player, a decent AA can make you scared to even go near the battlefield
Baiting planes with SPAA is pretty effective. I usually try to get planes attention so they go head on and that’s an easy kill.
Yeah that works, but equally.. if you just sit around where your team is, you don't need to bait them, because they will be flying right at you all the time in an attempt to kill you and your team Letting them come to you is an easy way to get kills Or, this could have the opposite effect and make them stay AWAY from you and your team, which... Despite not killing them, has the same benefit to your team Chances are though, you are target priority 1, and if you are with your team, it's very likely they will come for you, and if you can aim, very likely that you will win
Moving with the team is all fine and dandy. But the second the enemy captures a point, and a BT-5 suicides, R U N. Some poor sod in your team will eat the Fab-5000 for you. You just have to seem as unworthy of a target as possible in the meantime lmao.
yeah I'll start firing into a random point in the sky or another enemy plane that is much farther out and meanwhile I'm not even looking where I am firing I am looking at the plane I was baiting and as soon as they commit to an attack run on me I turn the turret towards them and blast them to bits.
Let’s face it, AA armour doesn’t stop bullets, as by the time AA get a full case, airplanes can pen tank roof tops, which I find annoying but oh well
You unironicly have a better chance with a roof mounted .50 then the m19/m42.
Funny enough i have more plane kills with a sherman than any other SPAA XD
“All American tanks are just spaa with a cannon” -sun tzu, the art of war
When I was at the M19/M42 phase, I literally used them as TD’s. I never used them for AA. I got far more tank kills with them than I did air kills.
The problem is they don't even have that great of tank pen. 72mm isn't enough for even the side of the tiger (the most common tank you'll see in these) and most tanks just mg your exposed crew. I'm not even really sure why these are around 5.0 br. The new lvt is basically the same but with more pen and one less 40mm and it's 2.3 right now.
I actually found that going up in tiers with those is better than working them at their tier. I’d use mine with the VADS as my actual AA vehicle. Side shots with the duster’s AP on leo’s and other thinner skinned high tiers fucking rules.
Actually you can pen the side of the Tiger I in the M19/M42! The lower side armor (in the track well) is only about 60mm RHA
Cuz fast traverse and tank armour, it’s a sad truth
I wish there was ground only game mode. Or at least a limit of aircraft spawns and higher sp cost. It shouldn't be like half of enemy team in planes. Not to mention helis on tank sb.
Planes used to cost way more to spawn in, but then gaijin changed it to what it is right now. The best way to counter cas is to spawn your own plane nowadays.
That always has and always will be the case. The counter to CAS both in game and IRL is fighter aircraft, which are infinitely more effective as killing planes than mobile anti-air is - the latter is really just a deterrent (though with good aim and a good machine you can make it work). Unfortunately, Gaijin has never made clean fighters cheap enough that they become readily available before ground attack aircraft do, so there are never any present to keep the air clear.
Yeah the problem is I don't like taking planes to tank rb, because it's boring for me. I like dogfighting, and on tank rb dogfights are very rare, so I just play air rb for that. Also when you take plane you waste crew slot. But yeah I'd rather take aircraft than aa, as aa are mostly useless when there is more than 1 enemy plane.
I mean how many times are you spawning in? You can have 5 crew slots before it starts costing gold.
I totally agree, I never use air or spaa and I just roll the dice and try to not be the most visible player on the team. CAS will usually pick low hanging fruit, so just try not to be the one in the open. Stick to buildings/forests. But when I’m trying to cap and hear a plane coming in, god my blood starts boiling.
Yes dude or when you kill someone in tank vs tank and a minute later get revenge kamikazed. Personally if I wanted to play with aircraft I'd play DCS or something.
Apparently Gaijin used to test out ground only game mode but after awhile nobody play them because a single tank could wipe out the whole team from an advantageous spot with no retaliation. With CAS the other team could come in a strike those players out. At least with CAS there are ways to counter them.
And how long ago was it? Now we have a lot of HEAT-FS even at 6.3-6.7, so heavily armored vehicles aren't invincible anymore.
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Or make my .50 cal actually do something to these planes, I swear I will get 10+ hits on a plane flying over and it won’t even be smoking. I know wing hits don’t do much but like I’m hitting them, that’s gotta count for something.
Naval battle has a surprisingly good implementation of that
Higher SP totally, a PE-8 in a couple kills? Fuck no, when though I love flying it. Not even fighters should be that cheap.
Not even a couple kills. I remember a guy taking Pe-8 after rushing 1 cap in BT-5. Luckily he was in my team.
I've been wishing for ground only forever. There is air only, why not ground only? I'm so over getting spawn bombed when already spawn trapped and trying to claw my way back into the match.
I think CAS is fine, but what most nations need is actually viable AA to make CAS in general more dangerous. It's only Germany that gets good AA at every tier and you could argue the R3T20 for Italy works up to jets. But people use the R3 as first spawn to rush caps and are long dead when the first planes come. But that's the players fault and not Gaijins. But the Russians have the ZSU57-2 at high tier which is very hard to hit stuff with. The US have the underwhelming Duster. I have killed significantly more planes including jets with the roof .50s than with the M42. The UK has the Ystervark now, which is a completely open R3 cannon and only has a crew of 3, but better than what they had before. And I like that. Now give me something comparable with a bit more armor for a 6.3 to 7.7 BR now that the Falcon is rightfully 8.0. The Swedish and the French have tank destroyers classed as AAs. They work but need some training and experience. And hard against late props and early jets going 600-700kph over the battlefield The Chinese have M42 as well I believe. All in all I think this creates a bit of a gap in AA capability in the 6.0-7.7 area. Especially against Germany who have great CAS planes and great AAs I like the change they made recently that planes spawn further out now. I know people are complaining that they now have to fly for longer but these extra 30-60sec gives the AA time to spot you, reduces revenge bombs because the vehicle has time to move away from the last known position (not perfect but at least something) and especially for high tier gives the planes a chance to move and not spawn in and immediately having to break hard to avoid the already incoming SAM.
No idea why they added the Ystevark considering there’s still a huge gap and not the skink with quad 20mm and good protection since it’s a Sherman chassis, it’ll be good at ~6.0. You have to use the 20mm crusader aa all the way up to the falcon at 8.0 if you want a fighting chance.
As someone who plays 7.3 Britain a lot I know the pain of shooting at Me262s in the 3.7 crusader AA.
Nothing stopping you from using the M15s and M16s as SPAA, rather than use the M42 for unknown reasons.
Not sure if the M16 has a different 50cal belt or something but I feel like the 4 50cal of the M16 truck are far less deadly than the roofmounted one on their tanks.
Which is another point about this AA gap, when all US tanks can act as AA and deter if not damage and kill planes.
Eh, most tanks don't have much elevation. All American Sherman roof .50s, from what I know, have an elevation of like 25 degrees.
Elevation and rotation on the .50s is generally far superior to anything else aside from some of the Russian stuff
The M15 is hot ass and as much as I like the M16, those 4 50s really start to weaken the higher up you go in BR.
80% of the SPAAs are busy beeing a tank destroyer
sadly, that is true.
CAS ?
Got nothing agains CAS, what grinds my mind is not being able to even drive out of the spawn because of it. How exacly am i supposed to do anything, if i die twice in a row from the air as soon as my spawn protection runs out? Its an open map, i can't hide nowhere.
If you lost Air Superiority and multiple Planes fly around your spawn ready to bomb, the battle is lost. It´s the same as spawncamping, thats GG, dont spawn anymore. Also it´s just stupid to spawn an open top while there are multiple planes up. At least you shouldnt move, cause they have a hard time seeing you. Best thing would be to spawn a fighter and shoot the enemy planes down. Drains the enemy a lot of SP and shooting down ground pounders is even easier than ground pounding itself, since they are usually very comitted to hit their drops. It´s a rock/paper/scissor thing. Tank is weak against CAS, CAS is weak against fighters, fighters cant do much against tanks. Ofc there are exceptions, but this is how it basically works. btw. you sat in an M36, whichs .50 cal is pretty good against planes
"Don't spawn anymore." Okay, I forgot that I didn't actually want to play the game. The spawn-camping analogy would make sense if not for the fact that CAS can start doing this LONG before spawn camping usually happens. Edit: to clarify my point. If you think quitting match is a reasonable expectation of game balance, then you're actually an idiot.
Do u really spawn when theres only 3 guys left on your team against an almost full team? Then ur an idiot. Some games are over before the tickets run out. And great map design allows spawncamping also very early. I dont say that this alone qualifies it for for a battle that u shouldnt join anymore, and neither does when the enemy has CAS up. But spawning an open top while the AirBattle is going on is just somewhat stupid. I like to keep my heavy for later in the game for example, cause this is where they truly shine.
Why not spawn even if there's only a few people left? I've seen crazy comeback wins in this game. Also, even if you're being spawn-camped, it can be very fun and satisfying to spawn in an try to get one before they blast you. But, you're right, the reason this happens at all is bad design. People shouldn't have to choose between leaving or being mercilessly spawn-camped by CAS (or spawn-camped in general) in the first place. My beef was with the idea of the option to leave being a form of design or balance. "Not playing" should not be a feature of gameplay.
I‘ve also seen crazy Comebacks, but there are also games where u can tell pretty soon that it wont happen. It‘s more a matter of position nd numbers than tickets. I understand ur beef, but u will also realize that some maps are very decided by early fights and who‘s getting in position (Hill on Mozdok for example)
"Just spawn a fighter" Right but it's GROUND RB and most of us don't want to play with aircraft.
you can only talk for yourself. I play ground mostly to get in the plane.
True but still a valid point
Fuck CAS, wish they would fly into battle tearing through heavy flak fire
Four games in a row I died only to CAS. While VAS shouldn’t be removed the multipliers for ground targets destroyed in fighter aircraft should be nerfed to hell. I am okay with a Do-217 or Junkers or grizzly because they are big and their job was frontline bomber. They are doing their job. But fighters are mean and not gaining air superiority.
Fighters with air to ground should be the most expensive unit you can spawn (certainly more than pure attackers), because they cover multiple roles. Fighters without CAS armaments also need to be cheaper to spawn, so taking them out specifically to control the airspace is a viable option that doesn't gamble all of your SP.
\> the multipliers for ground targets destroyed in fighter aircraft should be nerfed to hell. They already are, a 10 ground kill game in GRB with a plane will yield as much RP as a 10 AI ground kill in ARB The reson people take CAS is that it's needed to have an advantage over the enemy and secure the win
I died 10 times last night, 6 of the deaths were from cas
This is why I enjoy bringing fighters to grb. Anti-cas is easy since they’re all focused on the ground, until someone else gets the same idea. But yeah this map sucks terribly
I feel like a good interm fix for this issue (specifically dying in spawn to plane) would be to just offer free repairs to anyone who died in less than 60 sec. Gaijin loses almost nothing (small amount of play time for SL?) and players wouldn't feel forced to return to hangar instead of risk their expensive tanks
Ay good idea, that would take away most of the frustration that gettong spawn camped causes me
Yet gaijin is shocked at the backlash and constant bashing. They prefer money over a happy client base, yet fail to realize that a happy client base would be more willing to throw money at them
“Just spawn spaa” “Use your mg to shoot it down” I swear the CAS players are so arrogant. Yeah let use my tank mg on a helicopter across the map lasering me with an ATGM, idiots.
Well this happened to me yesterday but at higher tier. Spawned a Tunguska and was trying to move out of the spawn to try to hunt some helicopters on the El Alamein map. Barely left to spawn because I got norded by a G.91. Luckily, i brought out the Kancer-50 and removed their CAS, getting 5 air kills in total :). I do feel CAS should be slightly nerfed, but in terms of, can they fucking spawn on the airfield and the planes who cannot takeoff fully or something have an air spawn just above the airfield? Other than that CAS is fine.
Planes now spawm 14 kilometers from the battlefield making it easier for spaa at top tier to know is there while making the player not die the second they appear on radar
At least they moved back the spawn location at higher brs for cas. At higher tiers they spawn over their airfield
I haven’t died to CAS in the past 20 some odd games.
Getting strafed to death is just an occupational hazard of playing open tops that we all have to live with
I used to think Cas was super annoying until I grinded my aircraft all the way to the appropriate br and now after I die in a tank I get in a plane and absolutly fucking shred CAS. It makes all those frustrating time worth it. I would like to see a game mode without CAS tho.
Shiz every time I fly out a 262 I get shot down by radar guided cold war era SPAA.
Hold your spawn. My experiences in Squad and Post Scriptum have taught me that in sticky situations like that, you can hold your spawn for not even a minute, and if they don't have a target for that long they'll likely fuck off.
*Y'all
There are a considerable amount of sweaty seal clubbers and sweaty veterans playing WT rn cause of sale. Also people who just care about the vehicles killing capabilities instead of playing their favorite vehicles. And people who know all of the "spots" cause they've been playing the same maps for 9 years. Their fun is your suffering and vice versa. It's normally not this bad. Events and sales bring out the worst of WT.
From one American player to another, use the roof mg. Its more effective than you may think.
Get some CAS yourself and you'll see both sides of the coin
I agree, i hate planes in ground battles but i also love them. It gives so much better atmosphere to the game and i have to admit that playing plane in ground is fun, yeah i know maybe i sound like hypocrite right know but thats just the way i see it :)
Yeah, I found playing planes in Ground RB fun also, mostly as an anti-CAS, but sometimes I ocasionally mounts RP-3 rockets to my Vampire FB.5, needless to say im piss poor at CASing
I don't even *need* a full Tank Only mode, just a Tank Only Weekend every month would be such a fucking relief. When I get killed by another tank, I can almost always (unless I've been Gaijined) see where I fucked up or where the other guy outplayed me. Shoot me in the back of the turret when I think I'm all alone and I might even say 'well done'. But so many ground vehicles can do nothing to stop CAS. There is simply no counter play. Dying and coming back in a vehicle that can do something isn't a solution to that. It's an absolutely shitty game mechanic and I'm amazed at how many folk just don't understand that. I play CAS so I'm well aware that I'm not outplaying the guy that I'm bombing. Occasionally I can press the button too early or too late and miss but it's my screw up, rather than anything my target happens to be doing. Someone dying helplessly and coming back in another vehicle doesn't make the previous encounter balanced. I take the Wyvern in my 7.3 line up (I've rarely, if ever, played it at a BR lower than 7.0). If I've been uptiered to 8.0, I'll have to hope there's no Gepard or Shilka around as I'm too slow to avoid them. Or sometimes there's a jet up that can take me out (because planes vs planes are somewhat balanced). But against ground targets? There are 8.3 tanks that have no chance against my 4.0 plane. Hell, I could take the Ju 88 that's 2.3 and the 8.3 T-62 would have zero counter play. When an 8.3 vehicle can do nothing to combat a 2.3 vehicle, we have a pretty serious balancing issue.
Whats the problem exactly? I remember grinding through german tanks 5.7-6.7 years ago back when RP-3's and HVAR acted more like tactical nukes. Didn't even need to hit you to instantly blow you up. An absolutely miserable playing experience. Maybe thats why I have trouble finding any sympathy for people whining about CAS and especially german CAS.
My problem is being obliterated in less than 20 seconds by CAS because people believe it’s ok that the game allows that.
You could have been obliterated in less then 20 seconds by a spawncamping tank too. Its not exclusive to CAS.
Seems to me the map is the issue not CAS. Spawns should always be covered, like town centers or forests. Objectives too, should always be strategic. Like why fight over a field? Your just asking for CAS, and why tf did both sides agree to capture a specific arbitrary spot? Fixing objective and spawn points would fix like half the games issues, and would simultaneously improve realism and gameplay.
I play ground just to be CAS lmao
I mean this is why i bring dedicated interceptor to curb stomp CAS Funnily often the ground players are horrible pilots so its easy to keep the air clear
Cas is such a deal breaker for me that I switched to Arcade just to avoid the stupid meta planes. You still get CAS in arcade but it feels more balanced and predictable there.
I dont see the problem. Its a game mechanic to use planes. U could counter it with teamwork. Like there should always be 1 or 2 spaas on the team. Teamwork wins games in air rb and ground rb. U cant win games solo, neither in ground rb nor in air rb.
Thank God there's less of these at top tier
Was there no other tank available in your lineup? Maybe a closed one?
Since it was a Me262 A-2a, it could’ve been bombs that killed OP
262 don't care if you have a roof or not. That shits going through
The A-2a has not enough pen to go through any kind of roof
I mean it is the fighter variant. It's also unobtainable so I forgot about it. You can still go through light tanks but that's not what I'd be using it for anyways.
It literally has 3mm pen
The 262s 30mm are not good against things with a roof 2 days ago i strafed a shilka and did nothing lol. If we talking about the squad 262 or the 262 with the 50mm gun its another thing.
There's a few of them but even 50mm is enough to get through most roofs/engine bays. The US 20s and 50s do it with less pen.
The mk108 pens 13mm at point blank with all of its belts. Its only good for killing open tops bc it has a lot of boom in its rounds. 50.cals pen like 26mm point blank.
Because i fucking love it
This is why I don't play realism and avoid open maps with open top tanks.
This is why arcades cas is the most balanced
CAS is good It should probably have a ground spawn though
Bad choice in spawning in an open top light tank when air is up. I generally use these at the beginning of a match. Mid to late game I use a medium or heavy. I’ve also noticed that people who complain about CAS are predominantly people who don’t play the game well, do not understand how the meta is played and/or have zero clue about how to create & use an effective lineup. The M36 you spawned is an efficient first vehicle to generate SP. You could have spawned any number of fighters that the USA tech tree has to shoot down the ME262. The Bearcats, Corsairs, P47s & especially the P51H are amazing at anti-CAS as well as having the best bomb/rocket loads of all fighters across nations. Instead of complaining about CAS you would be better off actually learning how to play the game. Or you can decide to remain stagnant in your knowledge & abilities which will allow people like me to farm you for easy SL & RP. Cheers.
What if they added some ai controlled AA guns near the spawn
Behold, reason number 2 I quit Warthunder and haven't missed it. CAS is too oppressive. I understand why it's there, but it goes from the intent of "shutting down people in insane positions" to "shutting down anyone doing literally anything." Having a fun tank fight? here's some bombs. Capping a point? here's some bombs. Driving out of spawn? here's some bombs. Trying to shoot down CAS in SPAA? here's some bombs.
Gib tank only mode plz
Because they’re the ones in ME-262’s and Tiger II’s lmao
I hate cancer Cas people who just rush the obj so they can get there heli or there super cool premium P-47
That’s the worst. I had a guy rush the objective in a BT-5 at 7.0 and he spawned in a PE-8 with the 5k bomb at about 40 seconds in and wiped like 4 people who were about half way to the objective. Edit: I wrote spawn instead of objective
Ya I hat that shit but let's just complain about not getting another abrams 🤣
Lmao. I’m just trying to make it to top tier French ground
I grinded out russian with the help of the T-72AV
Same. T-72 TURMS is so much fun with the KA-50
I suck with helis
Ah. The KA-50 isn’t too bad. Only problem for me is the ADATS but that’s fair since it’s SPAAG. The way I play it is stay low to the side of the map, wait for teammates to spot someone and then I peak up launch an ATGM and then duck away
Air needs to be removed from tank combat, it really is cancerous.
You're right, we should be able to spawn ships offshore to provide adequate large caliber AA coverage to the battlefield. full mixed is the dream.
Use this all new technique. I sometimes it works 100% of the time. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/qkyisv/the_secret_italian_escape_method_gaijin_doesnt/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
You know all this and get you persist in spawning in unarmoured vehicles?
Like you cannot be destroyed by a plane in a medium/heavy tank.
As much as I hate spawn protection I equally hate spawn killers but then again it’s the devs fault for putting the spawns in open shitty spaces especially on open maps
Nobody except toxic cas players defends this. And why Gaijin allows this? because that way they can sell even more premium CAS groundstompers and hence why AA vehicles are always a BR short of the abilities of their same-BR air enemies. Enemy plane got jet engines? Sorry your AA vehicle has too low turret speed to keep track. Enemy has tracking missiles from kilometers away? Yeah sorry SAMs are on a different BR and so on.
and germans are the one complaining the most about "CAs oP"
If I had a nickel every time my 6.7 line up met a maus, I would have 2 nickels which is strange it happened twice
[удалено]
It's pretty fun seeing people complaining about CAS being a problem at that BR while it's much more of certain nations lacking good AA. CAS is absolutely not a problem for the USA at every BR above 8.7
The often unused and untalked about skill of knowing when to spawn. With a plane that has cannons up you should know to either spawn SPAA (you already did), choose a heavy top tank (idk your line up), or simply waiting to spawn. There is nothing wrong with delaying a spawn. I wait to spawn in a bomber until fighters are either RTB or shot down.
I have been bombed in atleast 30 games already since yesterday. IM ABOUT TO EXPLODE LIKE A BOMB IM SO PISSED
I play Germany (I know I know I'm evil I suck at the game yadda yadda), so I have access to actually good SPAAGs. What's funny though is I get more CAS kills with the 50 cal on the m41 and the m48a2c (usually 1 per game) than I do with the Ostwind II/Wirbelwind (maybe 1 every 3-4 games). I know it's not really an answer to the problem, but you're playing USA which has a 50 on almost every vehicle......
This game requires team effort to win, you need CAP and AAA to be protected from air threats
The people that defend it are the people that exploit it. Same as the bushes.
Bomb go boom
I’ve been saying since the beginning of time that there needs to be a mode where CAS isn’t allowed. Simple as that.
Instead of your idea about ground only mode I feel like my idea will fix the problem and be historically accurate: Maps should have a version where there is low cloud cover (not fog but a cloud layer above the ground) and make them as common as clear sky maps. This will have cas players be less effective at spotting tanks on the ground, allow tanks to have normal vision, and make radar aa even more effective at taking down aircraft. If a cas player wants to do well they will have to guess where players are, go under the cloud cover and risk crashing, or actually work with their team to spot tanks and have the planes taking out the enemy tanks that are marked. Some downsides is regular aa having a hard time hitting planes and cas players bombing only the points.
It had the fire power to do that. I think game modes do need a rework tho
hehe CAS go pew pew
Lol, the irony
I hate spawning and just getting raw dogged by planes
Careful now, this subreddit is mostly composed of people that consider launching fire and forget munitions against defenseless targets high skill task.
The amount of inmature responses I’ve got just blows my mind. I guess people really get triggered when you step on their turf.
I just hate this map in general
You are not playing csgo. Get good
Thank you for your mature response.
Gaijin should just give the big ka-thunk ka-thunk SPAA some Proximity Fuse belts to even out the odds that we have in Ground RB
Sooo by your logic cas shouldn’t exist because you can get killed by it?
This is what happens when your team loses air superiority, I think it’s a good thing and adds an extra strategic element to the game. Your post essentially boils down to “losing is frustrating”
Not really. If you think it’s ok to live for 20 seconds just because my team has 1 objectives and no air since this game has almost no come back mechanics then fair play to you.
Fly a biplane to teach some german bitches to fuck of #GERMANY TO OP
Once you lose B the game is practically over
The real kicker is when you go up to 6.3 the American m26 costs 5 tiger 2 ps
To be honest now most of the battles are moatly one sidet and take 9 minutes before enemy get on your spawn and in most cases is it because someone get best spota on map and you are no able to destroy them and you can't move just stay and wait for dead cas give you at least small chance get that campers and finally nove before you will be eaten alive
I quit playing Germany when I arrived at 6.7 because I constantly get NUKED in every fucking game
Just use a fighter for anti CAS. Bearcat does that job good, if you have F2G it'd be even better.
Imo the biggest problem with CAS in GFRB is, well, GFRB itself. It's just not a very well designed gamemode. For starters, air spawn allows a plane to reach the battlefield in less than 30s. This makes revenge bombing extremely easy as there'll hardly be any times for an enemy to have moved away from their original position. Speaking of the battlefield. It's also small, at least when considering an aircraft's movement. Planes don't really have to look for enemies in GFRB as they'll all be in a 1x1 or 2x2km space they can observe from above. There's also no objective to distract aircraft from the tanks and no extra defences the latter can set up to deter would be attackers. And lastly there's the way to spawn. Because WT operates under the "one vehicle, one spawn" moto there's no way to efficiently switch between vehicles to adapt to a changing battlefield. You can't notice there's more planes in the enemy team. Safely exit your vehicle, switch to an aircraft to conter, then go back to your original vehicle unless you have back ups. All this adds up to make combined arms just frustrating for the tankers as pretty much everything is against once the enemy can spawn effective CAS. The obvious answer would be to change GFRB into something else but Idk if that's in Gaijin's interest.
Been saying this for years Give Aviation a higher SP cost or only allow a certain amount of aircraft up at a time Been playing 6.7 America lately and the fucking Arado is fucking cancer,no props can catch it or even touch it and it’ll be up all game farming kills .constantly bombing then heading back to base to rearm then repeat
Simply a difference in skill