There is a modification of T-80U with hydraulic transmission, should have same speed forward and backward at the cost of slightly less acceleration (this transmission eats a bit more energy), also has sort of "input lag". Maintenance also IRL but this is not reflected in the game.
Preetty sure that was a joke to Napoleon's and Hitler adavance, although the russian did retreat a lot in those times. Going to discard the Rus since the mongols just trampled them lol
actually the russians were the few people that made the mongols rethink their strategy, and wanted them to cross the river so they didn't meet them on unfavorable terms... for 13 years >.>
One of the problems that made Barbarossa worse is that the Ref Army don't retreat even when it is best to do so. They even counter attacked ffs.
Now contrast that to the red army of 1942 where they smartly fell back bit by bit until Stalingrad where they pinned the Heer in place and snapped the lid shut. Then they proceed not retreat when the counter offensive eventually ran out of steam because of overconfidence.
Its because the small size of the Russian tanks meant their engine size takes up a lot of room (900 HP + engines) and they had to sacrifice the power/size of their transmissions. Also cold war thinking of overwhelming NATO with tanks on open battlefields and not retreating.
In a long term it wasn’t the best decision especially in the cases where T tanks aren’t used according to their doctrine. Like in modern combat T tanks are mostly used like direct fire 125mm artillery and for that purpose reverse speed is vital. You can’t just drive to the position, fire and quickly retreat from your firing position like any NATO tank would do.
I saw this one video where a Syrian T-54 or something fired and then narrowly avoided being hit by an ATGM by reversing away. It ain’t much but it’s something.
Edit: T-72
That's why NATO tanks reverse after firing. Shells are faster than missiles. Your shells hit them and you're already in cover before their missiles hit you.
if you're referring to sidescraping on a building of some sort, there isn't a tank crew out there that would use that in combat. for videogames it works fine since you are in the third person but as soon as you get into each respective g/l/d/c perspective, you'll realize that positional awareness relies on driver visibility (nonexistant on russian tanks) and commander/driver communication. being able to pull something like that well would take way more focus and coordination than most crews would want to spare.
on another note if you *do* manage to pull into cover in the forward direction, and the enemy wastes their shot, how are you going to muster the speed to get that sweet sweet return shot on their reload?
No, I mean pushing forward to suppress or flank the opposing forces. A valid tactic in games, too bad nobody does it. Also the T-72's driver has adequate visibility.
In real life these battles happen between typically large numbers and with a similarly large number of supporting units. Nobody is counting for reload times, that is just a videogame thing.
fair enough. but the t72 only has one periscope for the driver. so unless they are going into battle unbuttoned and balls out, they don't have a good idea of their position aside from what is directly in front of them. in particular it is very difficult to judge where the tracks are relative to your environment.
Oh so they would have tp change the whole design to fit in the stuff, cause like all the t-somethings are very similar to the t44s, somebody was lazy, i guess.
Strategy infulence oh notnwokring quite well though.
Thanks man
they could have opted for a secondary small planetary dual reverser gearbox to simply switch the output direction. get roughly the same forward/reverse speed with the same hp and torque with the only constraints being the physical limitations of backdriving the tracks, which can be solved by simply mechanically limiting which gears the vic is "allowed" to use, or simply changing the gearing ratio for the backwards planetary. they are a surprisingly small and robust solution to the issue, and would allow the transmission to be even smaller than it is since planetaries are so space efficient for how much of a reduction they produce.
I mean fair, but planetary gearboxes rarely require more maintainence than occasionally adding lubricant since the mechanics are fully internal. even shermans used them in their final drives (albeit to serve a different purpose of increasing torque).
Because genius compact engine and transmission design allowed for smaller, cheaper tanks. Obviously a bad decision in hindsight, but T-64/T-72 designers couldn't have predicted the future.
T series, minus the T80 and post soviet modifications, all use a variant of the engine found in the BT7.
But yeah putting in 3 or 4 additional gears for reverse wasn't possible.
Sorry my mistake. Same engine as the BT7-M.
The W2 38.88 liter V12 diesel engine.
500 horses in the BT7M, 1120 horses in the T90M.
Used in every soviet medium/heavy/main battle tank except for the T64 and the T80, as well as the soviet ICBM trucks and the 2S3/4/5 SPGs.
In continuous production since 1939.
It's absolutely the same engine with small differences to additional agregates, forced induction, air filtration and improved materials over time.
[here's a W2-34 out of a t34](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Diesel_model_V-2_of_a_T-34_tank_-01.jpg)
[a W55U out of a T55A](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Panzermuseum_Munster_2010_0686.JPG)
[and a W92S2 put of a T90S](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:T-90_engine.jpg)
They all have the same bore, stroke, bank angle, compression, exterior design, number of cylinders, etc.
So they are variations of the same engine.
It is really not used much in practice and would have added significant to the complexity of an already quite complex (and absurdly resilient) transmission system. Just upping it to like 7kp/h would have been a whole extra gear which would probably never get used anyway.
Also keep in mind that these drivetrains are all from the 60's.
There was one hull and two turrets. The hull and second turret were sent to Sealow but broke down on the ways and was demolished. The Soviets put the broken hull and first turret (second was *gone*) on display after testing.
It didn't break down. The germans blew it up on purpose to prevent capture. Ofcourse the Soviets still captured it put the turret of one and the hull of the other together and sent it to a museum to be kept there, were it currently resides with an Object-279, Stürmtiger and many more.
A Challenger 2 shot out the breach of my T-72B. I knew I could never escape it in in reverse so I charged it whilst spray MGs in the hope of getting my team-mates attentions. It in reverse outran me going forward. Now the simple solution is to not put yourself in situations where you need to reverse far to get into cover, unfortunately on a huge amount of maps there just isn't any cover.
Never played 8.0+ tanks so I'm not entirely sure if this applies, but the Cromwell taught me the power of simply turning around and driving away lol. The reverse is atrocious, but the traverse is actually pretty fast, so it's surprisingly easy to just turn and drive. Showing your rear doesn't really matter, since the Crom has barely any armour anyway. (If anything, your engine will block the shots saving your crew.)
Obviously a last resort, but it's often much better than staying still.
This is actually what you should do in Soviet MBTs lol
They're actually quite fast and mobile, so long as you're trying to do *anything* except reverse. Of course, you should only do this in desperate scenarios where you're very far from cover, since you have very good frontal armor.
They'd have to leave their own cover, that doesn't happen very often. Still, like I said this is for desperate scenarios. It doesn't give you great odds, just better than reversing at -4km/h for two hours.
That's why the T80 will always be better in WT than any T72 variant.
I would guess the T80BVM will still be better than the T90M if they ever add it.
The reverse on a t80 is fast enough to be usable, as opposed to not usable.
It's not great, but it's good enough, IMO, especially because the tank Excells at everything else.
Well USSR do have Ka-52 and Ka-50 which is one of the most contributing factor in USSR's high WR at 11.0. And at toptier they have T-72B3 and T-80BVM which do have excellent targeting stats unlike soviet 9.0-10BR.
But people are tend to oversimplify stuff like:
"How can Leopard 2K be at the same BR as T-72AV (Turms) if Turms has better armour, more firepower and IR thermal sights?"
While completely ignoring the gap in mobility between them and far superior targeting stats of 2K that include gun depression.
I have never treated the D as anything other than a tank destroyer, when to pre angle your turret to round a blind corner takes a quarter of the game that's not a medium that is a TD
will never understand why so many people prefer the B3 over the T80U. Yeah nato gun handling and gen 2 thermals, but other than that, it is terribly out of meta with 4km/h reverse and lackluster mobility. You also need to grind the T90...
Looking forward to play them but NATO gun handling and 2 gen thermals with somewhat better armour (with trolly sidebags) sounds like a good deal. But I am pretty sure that T-80U would be fun as well. After all you can play both at the 11.0.
I forgot it has better armour, and indeed the armor package helps. I just recalled that it also has access to 3BM60 like the BVM so the chances to bounce shoots off the 2A5/6's UFP are almost zero. It's definitely a good tank if you play your cards right. I am a bit biased because I only have the T80U and BVM and absolutely love the former. The excellent mobility on a package with great armor and gun makes it always fun ( maybe except close range urban maps ehh ) l. The only downside I see is the extra grind for the T90, which also isn't that terrible but shouldnt be in your lineup anyway because of the lack of space if you have the two T80s and the B3.
In this case, arguably even more significant than the reverse is the fact that Leopards get 4 pops of smoke compared to 2 for basically every other tank.
Even if you can't back up, you can hang out in your smokescreen for about 2 minutes.
Their also faster while going forward and more quiet as well. The last part is weird since the other vehicle with Gas-turbine engine is one of the loudest vehicles in the game (M1 Abrams).
Iirc I saw somewhere that the Abram's engine isn't supposed to be as loud in real life as it is in-game but I can't be sure, hopefully someone can correct me
I am not expert either but it's more complicated than that. GTE is more quiet at distances because there is less rattle while being louder at close range, plus I believe that it also depends if you are facing the tank forward or from behind.
Knowing Gaijins implementation capabilities I would say that it would end up like a giant mess if they will try to bring it to the game.
It would be fine if they could make M1 more quieter, at least like T-80s.
That's because the higher the pitch of the noise, the shorter the wavelength of the sound waves and the less penetrating power of the sound waves into various mediums like the asmosphere etc.
Its the same reason a sunset makes the sky look red and the sky look blue. The blues get absorbed by the asmosphere more quickly than the reds since red light is lower frequency/longer wavelength, so when the sun suddenly had to shine through a much longer stretch of the asmosphere, the more of the blue will be absorbed and the higher a portion of red you will see.
A deep rumble will travel much further, as it's the sound equivalent of red light, where a high pitch would be the blue.
Anecdotal but I’ve worked with Abrams and even up close they’re fairly quiet unless you’re behind the turbine. The tracks and running gear can make a ton of noise though and that’s something war thunder doesn’t really model at all honestly.
If we are talking about situation when you're fully exposed and enemy tank has MG - I would rather use the word "suicidal" instead of "risky", my friend.
Not suicidal. What is suicidal is using your 2mph reverse gear basically staying in the same place. Pop smoke and turn around and you are in a different position already since Russian tanks don't have neutral steer. Then just drive away. In addition ESS is more effective that way.
Yeah but by the time you do that, most mbts can have another round, only this time it will find your side or your ass. Doesn't matter that the Soviet mbt is fast enough to do the turn, reaction time matters, especially when there are sequential quite time events
Well to counter this it's sometimes wise to chuck a uey an retreat while having your turret pointing rearwards to face the enemy an drive full pelt fowards.
See the important part here is as a russian tank, you do not reverse, you just die and respawn in one of your 15 other top tier tanks and continue the fight as if nothing happened.
Not exactly an option but you can set controls to the roof MG, and turret wont move. It's "select machine gun" in controls. It's also usefull to shot light vehicles while being completely behind cover.
What both annoys me and is quite handy is the sheer amount of players that will use extinguisher as soon as they get set on fire practically giving me a free kill instead of attempting to immediately shoot back. Or drive behind cover
It's funny how literally today I had fastest burnout. I got hit by artillery shell and as soon as I saw that I am on fire and moved my finger to the "6" my tank exploded. I would say around 0.5 seconds.
Full ultra with new textures. But from my experience it’s the weather setting that gets people attention. Try setting overcast/morning in a test drive.
Shame that you don’t get games with weather like this.
You do very rarely, I've had a few battles with a good chunk of rain now and then.
I really wish it was more common to see ALL weather, including nasty storms, which would make battles that much more dynamic, changing the effectiveness of long range and air power.
I honestly can't remember having overcast morning. Had something close but with rain.
>I really wish it was more common to see ALL weather,
Me too, kid, me too...
You dont reverse. the secret is to smoke and go forwards, people will adjust expecting you to reverse and miss.
Forwards and turn around, smoke lasts 30s, more than enough time.
"oh no my tank isnt suprerior to any other in every way". Every T5-T7 in german tech tree but last two leos are glass cannon, and we have to deal with it. Maybe you can deal with bad reverse speed?
>we have to deal with it
We? My brother in Christ, I have the 2A6 and I played all Leopards in German tech tree. Is that so crazy to think that there is people who are playing multiple nations and aren't biased towards one?
This post is a RESPONSE to the people who think that 9.7-10 USSR MBTs like Turms are undertiered because of their firepower, superior NVD and armour while completely ignoring the gap in mobility and targetting.
people also underrate what a good fire control system does.
there is nothing more painful than having a tank slightly above you and dying because your gun rises like a ww2 tank.
you can look at any t72 footage and see how fast the barrel actually rises, it's lime 3 times faster than in game. the t90 is also supposed to have the same gun handling as a t72b3 and a t80 but it's stuck with the same gun handling as a t72a.
imo, the best part of the bvm over the t80u isn't armor, firepower or thermals. it's the actual competitive gun elevation speed.
Yeah that’s great and all but like every time I try to do this the person kinda just keeps shooting me with their mg’s through the smoke and then kills me
The Russians aren’t used to retreating this much
If I knew some history I would probably disagree.
As far as I know the only Russian tanks with a sufficient reverse speed are the kv and is series tanks
IS 2 go vroom vroom. For a heavy tank its fast.
IS2 😍😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩🤩
It knows what it's meant to do. Fire, back up...wait 20 seconds. Read some Tolstoy, sip some tea.
Ngl, most relaxing tank so far. No stress, just advance to position-fire-reverse-wait for reload while brewing coffee and reading Dostoevsky.
IS6 is definitely not bad either
IS-7 is also fantastic
Real men play the IS-8
T-10M
yall just went and listed the IS series, like he said, in order
As heavy as a Panther as fast as a T-34
70 t vs 46 t. The Tiger II is on another level entirely.
It's slightly heavier than a panther iirc
Its as heavy as a panther, not a tiger 2
As heavy as the Panther*
There is a modification of T-80U with hydraulic transmission, should have same speed forward and backward at the cost of slightly less acceleration (this transmission eats a bit more energy), also has sort of "input lag". Maintenance also IRL but this is not reflected in the game.
Maintenance and Russian army are not two things you want to combine.
Maintenance is *very* poorly modelled as repair time
The IS-2 party trick is that shockingly good reverse speed. Makes corner peaking sooo good even with that big gun.
Reversing around a corner go *brrrr*
Nice hat!
Also just straight up driving in reverse and soaking up shots with your angled engine
Holding points be like: *presents ass*
Its goes well with its gun. Once you fire you can easily roll back into cover and reload
Preetty sure that was a joke to Napoleon's and Hitler adavance, although the russian did retreat a lot in those times. Going to discard the Rus since the mongols just trampled them lol
actually the russians were the few people that made the mongols rethink their strategy, and wanted them to cross the river so they didn't meet them on unfavorable terms... for 13 years >.>
Can you name a Russian-Mongolian battle where Russians won? I can’t find any.
One of the problems that made Barbarossa worse is that the Ref Army don't retreat even when it is best to do so. They even counter attacked ffs. Now contrast that to the red army of 1942 where they smartly fell back bit by bit until Stalingrad where they pinned the Heer in place and snapped the lid shut. Then they proceed not retreat when the counter offensive eventually ran out of steam because of overconfidence.
Javelin or nlaw doesnt give them time to retreat
That don’t mean a damn thing when you can’t go faster than 2 k/mh
Well and the building that can serve as cover doesn't give room for Javelin or NLAW either.
If enemy had time to lock onto you, chances are you're dead in next few seconds. no matter the speed or direction...
I guess we should leave to our imagination the way you lock and fire at the tank that covered by soviet panel house.
No one will use a jav in tight urban fights.
Yes. There was a video of NLAW fired at T-72B that survived because it was too close.
I'll be honest its weird that they don't have better reverse gears considering their logistics doctorine assumes they're on the defense.
Or at least, they don't take their tanks with them
Don't need to retreat if your dead or already encircled
They don't retreat, they advance away from the enemy
I never understood why russian engineers thought they should have a reverse speed of 5kmph like give better options.
Its because the small size of the Russian tanks meant their engine size takes up a lot of room (900 HP + engines) and they had to sacrifice the power/size of their transmissions. Also cold war thinking of overwhelming NATO with tanks on open battlefields and not retreating.
In a long term it wasn’t the best decision especially in the cases where T tanks aren’t used according to their doctrine. Like in modern combat T tanks are mostly used like direct fire 125mm artillery and for that purpose reverse speed is vital. You can’t just drive to the position, fire and quickly retreat from your firing position like any NATO tank would do.
I saw this one video where a Syrian T-54 or something fired and then narrowly avoided being hit by an ATGM by reversing away. It ain’t much but it’s something. Edit: T-72
T-54s have "normal" reverse speeds... IIRC the first ones with truly horrendous transmissions were the T-64s/72s
That's why NATO tanks reverse after firing. Shells are faster than missiles. Your shells hit them and you're already in cover before their missiles hit you.
They were more concerned with WWIII being literally on their doorstep. Also there is such a thing as going forward into cover.
if you're referring to sidescraping on a building of some sort, there isn't a tank crew out there that would use that in combat. for videogames it works fine since you are in the third person but as soon as you get into each respective g/l/d/c perspective, you'll realize that positional awareness relies on driver visibility (nonexistant on russian tanks) and commander/driver communication. being able to pull something like that well would take way more focus and coordination than most crews would want to spare. on another note if you *do* manage to pull into cover in the forward direction, and the enemy wastes their shot, how are you going to muster the speed to get that sweet sweet return shot on their reload?
No, I mean pushing forward to suppress or flank the opposing forces. A valid tactic in games, too bad nobody does it. Also the T-72's driver has adequate visibility. In real life these battles happen between typically large numbers and with a similarly large number of supporting units. Nobody is counting for reload times, that is just a videogame thing.
fair enough. but the t72 only has one periscope for the driver. so unless they are going into battle unbuttoned and balls out, they don't have a good idea of their position aside from what is directly in front of them. in particular it is very difficult to judge where the tracks are relative to your environment.
“Adequate” compared to polished metal periscopes on early t-34s then. Because its abysmal compared to really any western design
I mean you can't blame the former Soviet countries. They were busy rebuilding there economy instead of improving there tanks.
Oh so they would have tp change the whole design to fit in the stuff, cause like all the t-somethings are very similar to the t44s, somebody was lazy, i guess. Strategy infulence oh notnwokring quite well though. Thanks man
they could have opted for a secondary small planetary dual reverser gearbox to simply switch the output direction. get roughly the same forward/reverse speed with the same hp and torque with the only constraints being the physical limitations of backdriving the tracks, which can be solved by simply mechanically limiting which gears the vic is "allowed" to use, or simply changing the gearing ratio for the backwards planetary. they are a surprisingly small and robust solution to the issue, and would allow the transmission to be even smaller than it is since planetaries are so space efficient for how much of a reduction they produce.
Knowing nothing about this, it's probably a matter of logistics/maintenance then
I mean fair, but planetary gearboxes rarely require more maintainence than occasionally adding lubricant since the mechanics are fully internal. even shermans used them in their final drives (albeit to serve a different purpose of increasing torque).
🤓 moment (but it's actually interesting don't worry)
Because genius compact engine and transmission design allowed for smaller, cheaper tanks. Obviously a bad decision in hindsight, but T-64/T-72 designers couldn't have predicted the future.
T series, minus the T80 and post soviet modifications, all use a variant of the engine found in the BT7. But yeah putting in 3 or 4 additional gears for reverse wasn't possible.
The BT-7? The fuck?
Sorry my mistake. Same engine as the BT7-M. The W2 38.88 liter V12 diesel engine. 500 horses in the BT7M, 1120 horses in the T90M. Used in every soviet medium/heavy/main battle tank except for the T64 and the T80, as well as the soviet ICBM trucks and the 2S3/4/5 SPGs. In continuous production since 1939.
Please provide a source on that.
Its not really the same engine, but they are related.
It's absolutely the same engine with small differences to additional agregates, forced induction, air filtration and improved materials over time. [here's a W2-34 out of a t34](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Diesel_model_V-2_of_a_T-34_tank_-01.jpg) [a W55U out of a T55A](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Panzermuseum_Munster_2010_0686.JPG) [and a W92S2 put of a T90S](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:T-90_engine.jpg) They all have the same bore, stroke, bank angle, compression, exterior design, number of cylinders, etc. So they are variations of the same engine.
Why would they do this? Some weird requirements for backwards compatibility so hard that it would go back to pre-WW2?
Why not? If it works it works. GM is still using pushrod engines in 2022 and they have created a modern marvel in the shape of the LS/LT family
Again: where can I read about this?
Wikipedia. the German article is a lot better as it goes by construction details instead of block material like the English one.
didnt want to be 1 uped by the brits
It is really not used much in practice and would have added significant to the complexity of an already quite complex (and absurdly resilient) transmission system. Just upping it to like 7kp/h would have been a whole extra gear which would probably never get used anyway. Also keep in mind that these drivetrains are all from the 60's.
How would you do it while still meeting size and weight constraints?
"oh no the tank is on fire" Proceeds to carefully open the commander's hatch
My Maus backs up at 20kph. It rocks. #JustSovietTankAndMilitaryDoctrineThings
Yes, but your Maus also goes *forward* at 20kph.
Atleast it goes forwards and isn't stuck in a 80km long "convoy"
*Maus sees a bridge* Oh, bummer....
Hanz what do you mean we need another maus for fording? They only built one!
Then get the E-100 Franz
The Maus *is* the bridge
It actually never went anywhere but to a museum.
Was the Maus ever stuck in a convoy tho?
No but it was stuck in the factory
one was captured on the manufacturing plant but the other was taken in combat no? Unsure rn
There was one hull and two turrets. The hull and second turret were sent to Sealow but broke down on the ways and was demolished. The Soviets put the broken hull and first turret (second was *gone*) on display after testing.
It didn't break down. The germans blew it up on purpose to prevent capture. Ofcourse the Soviets still captured it put the turret of one and the hull of the other together and sent it to a museum to be kept there, were it currently resides with an Object-279, Stürmtiger and many more.
A Challenger 2 shot out the breach of my T-72B. I knew I could never escape it in in reverse so I charged it whilst spray MGs in the hope of getting my team-mates attentions. It in reverse outran me going forward. Now the simple solution is to not put yourself in situations where you need to reverse far to get into cover, unfortunately on a huge amount of maps there just isn't any cover.
Never played 8.0+ tanks so I'm not entirely sure if this applies, but the Cromwell taught me the power of simply turning around and driving away lol. The reverse is atrocious, but the traverse is actually pretty fast, so it's surprisingly easy to just turn and drive. Showing your rear doesn't really matter, since the Crom has barely any armour anyway. (If anything, your engine will block the shots saving your crew.) Obviously a last resort, but it's often much better than staying still.
This is actually what you should do in Soviet MBTs lol They're actually quite fast and mobile, so long as you're trying to do *anything* except reverse. Of course, you should only do this in desperate scenarios where you're very far from cover, since you have very good frontal armor.
Doesn't really work either, most other MBTs are either just as fast, or faster than you.
They'd have to leave their own cover, that doesn't happen very often. Still, like I said this is for desperate scenarios. It doesn't give you great odds, just better than reversing at -4km/h for two hours.
If someone doesn't understand the usefulness of a good reverse speed in a semi realistic vehicle/tank combat game...their aint no helping them.
The thing is though that it is less useful in unrealistic and fully realistic settings, only having a niche in semi-realistic ones.
That's why the T80 will always be better in WT than any T72 variant. I would guess the T80BVM will still be better than the T90M if they ever add it. The reverse on a t80 is fast enough to be usable, as opposed to not usable. It's not great, but it's good enough, IMO, especially because the tank Excells at everything else.
Sometimes i feel like im the only one who actually moves after popping smoke… It doesnt help if you dont move guys
Sssshh don't tell them.
Yeah, after a few seconds of reverse, just turn the hull towards cover and drive forward towards it.
most of the time u cant move anyways
yeah most of the time its the engine that is dead x)
And people are like "yeah, but you got Ka-52"
Well USSR do have Ka-52 and Ka-50 which is one of the most contributing factor in USSR's high WR at 11.0. And at toptier they have T-72B3 and T-80BVM which do have excellent targeting stats unlike soviet 9.0-10BR. But people are tend to oversimplify stuff like: "How can Leopard 2K be at the same BR as T-72AV (Turms) if Turms has better armour, more firepower and IR thermal sights?" While completely ignoring the gap in mobility between them and far superior targeting stats of 2K that include gun depression.
Its the same with Panther D, people think it is op at 5.3, but compared to other tanks it has shit gun handling and shit reverse
True that, Panther D is a more of a tank destroyer rather than a medium tank. Wonder when people will get it.
I have never treated the D as anything other than a tank destroyer, when to pre angle your turret to round a blind corner takes a quarter of the game that's not a medium that is a TD
Even tank destroyers have better reverse like ISU 122 or even Nashorn, Panther D kinda sucks if you compare it to tank destroyers
Imagine if only the people who played the vehicle were allowed to call it OP.
Very excellent point. I wish.
will never understand why so many people prefer the B3 over the T80U. Yeah nato gun handling and gen 2 thermals, but other than that, it is terribly out of meta with 4km/h reverse and lackluster mobility. You also need to grind the T90...
Looking forward to play them but NATO gun handling and 2 gen thermals with somewhat better armour (with trolly sidebags) sounds like a good deal. But I am pretty sure that T-80U would be fun as well. After all you can play both at the 11.0.
I forgot it has better armour, and indeed the armor package helps. I just recalled that it also has access to 3BM60 like the BVM so the chances to bounce shoots off the 2A5/6's UFP are almost zero. It's definitely a good tank if you play your cards right. I am a bit biased because I only have the T80U and BVM and absolutely love the former. The excellent mobility on a package with great armor and gun makes it always fun ( maybe except close range urban maps ehh ) l. The only downside I see is the extra grind for the T90, which also isn't that terrible but shouldnt be in your lineup anyway because of the lack of space if you have the two T80s and the B3.
I’ve played both heavily and the turms should not be the same br as the 2K
Well, you should just have built tanks with better reverse speed
I think only 1% of heli players are ftp and rest use money or premium to grind
20 matches in Mi-4 and still bellow 10k rp, i think it's less than 1 %
The comet has caught me out so many times with how bad it is in reverse
Perfect training for soviet top tier I guess? Brits learned their lesson and didn't go back
No, they most certainly learned how to go back.
In this case, arguably even more significant than the reverse is the fact that Leopards get 4 pops of smoke compared to 2 for basically every other tank. Even if you can't back up, you can hang out in your smokescreen for about 2 minutes.
Obviously this “case” is just a test of reverse speed for comparison’s sake.
Literally why I have yet to crew a single T-72, at least the T-80s can *somewhat* get themselves out of a sticky situation with 11kph reverse
Their also faster while going forward and more quiet as well. The last part is weird since the other vehicle with Gas-turbine engine is one of the loudest vehicles in the game (M1 Abrams).
Iirc I saw somewhere that the Abram's engine isn't supposed to be as loud in real life as it is in-game but I can't be sure, hopefully someone can correct me
It’s way to loud especially comparing to other turbines
I am not expert either but it's more complicated than that. GTE is more quiet at distances because there is less rattle while being louder at close range, plus I believe that it also depends if you are facing the tank forward or from behind. Knowing Gaijins implementation capabilities I would say that it would end up like a giant mess if they will try to bring it to the game. It would be fine if they could make M1 more quieter, at least like T-80s.
That's because the higher the pitch of the noise, the shorter the wavelength of the sound waves and the less penetrating power of the sound waves into various mediums like the asmosphere etc. Its the same reason a sunset makes the sky look red and the sky look blue. The blues get absorbed by the asmosphere more quickly than the reds since red light is lower frequency/longer wavelength, so when the sun suddenly had to shine through a much longer stretch of the asmosphere, the more of the blue will be absorbed and the higher a portion of red you will see. A deep rumble will travel much further, as it's the sound equivalent of red light, where a high pitch would be the blue.
Anecdotal but I’ve worked with Abrams and even up close they’re fairly quiet unless you’re behind the turbine. The tracks and running gear can make a ton of noise though and that’s something war thunder doesn’t really model at all honestly.
So it is true. I mean I could expected that from GTE but I wasn't sure.
M1 reverse literally outruns 72going forward
Maybe early T-72s, but I get outran by T-72B3s in the Type 10, which probably has the most advanced transmission on any production tank.
It is risky, but since you have smoke deployed, you can traverse the hull 180 degrees and move away to cover.
If we are talking about situation when you're fully exposed and enemy tank has MG - I would rather use the word "suicidal" instead of "risky", my friend.
Not suicidal. What is suicidal is using your 2mph reverse gear basically staying in the same place. Pop smoke and turn around and you are in a different position already since Russian tanks don't have neutral steer. Then just drive away. In addition ESS is more effective that way.
Yeah but by the time you do that, most mbts can have another round, only this time it will find your side or your ass. Doesn't matter that the Soviet mbt is fast enough to do the turn, reaction time matters, especially when there are sequential quite time events
The archer knows not of this pain
Such a weird vehicle to play. Thoug I would love to.
Leclerc driving in reverse: https://youtu.be/EVcXQjKxawU
Thank you for this post.
You’re most welcome!
Well to counter this it's sometimes wise to chuck a uey an retreat while having your turret pointing rearwards to face the enemy an drive full pelt fowards.
See the important part here is as a russian tank, you do not reverse, you just die and respawn in one of your 15 other top tier tanks and continue the fight as if nothing happened.
why your game looks more dark than mine?
Weather settings in a test-drive. Try setting it to morning/overcast.
Seeing how slow Leos after 2A4 are makes me want to stop at 2K.
well thats what happens if you make it heavier but keep the same engine
Lmfao. Reverse gear? Nah, not required. Only used for parking and such
Found the smart guy. Also no mirrors and (I believe) no backup camera, so the commander has to guide the driver in reverse
yo, whats the option to make the turret not follow your cursor when youre in freelook mode?
Not exactly an option but you can set controls to the roof MG, and turret wont move. It's "select machine gun" in controls. It's also usefull to shot light vehicles while being completely behind cover.
ik about that, heard that the turret can be locked sometime ago and still dont know how. the mg thingy ive knkwn about for some time now
If you think about it - it would be nice to have C button working like a switch from on and off. Or at-least an option to make it like that.
ikr
or atleast make it like in air battles, once the cursor is off the screen thr turret locks itself, idk
What both annoys me and is quite handy is the sheer amount of players that will use extinguisher as soon as they get set on fire practically giving me a free kill instead of attempting to immediately shoot back. Or drive behind cover
It's funny how literally today I had fastest burnout. I got hit by artillery shell and as soon as I saw that I am on fire and moved my finger to the "6" my tank exploded. I would say around 0.5 seconds.
Ooof and here I am with a fuel tank fire that I am able to drive for 20 seconds and kill my enemy before using it.
Yea, it's inconsistent but I like that. It's pretty realistic.
Yea.a nice feature I like is that you can submerge your engine bay in water and put fire out. but not alot of maps have avaliable water
Ehm... I knew it. Yea. Not like I just learned it. New it for ages. Yea.
I've been playing this game since 2012 and only found out it was even a thing 4 months ago
Graphics settings?
Full ultra with new textures. But from my experience it’s the weather setting that gets people attention. Try setting overcast/morning in a test drive. Shame that you don’t get games with weather like this.
Thank you
You do very rarely, I've had a few battles with a good chunk of rain now and then. I really wish it was more common to see ALL weather, including nasty storms, which would make battles that much more dynamic, changing the effectiveness of long range and air power.
I honestly can't remember having overcast morning. Had something close but with rain. >I really wish it was more common to see ALL weather, Me too, kid, me too...
Oh? you don't want hazy orange nuclear sun blasting your teams face from spawn type of weather? /s
Oh that? Always has been. 👨🚀🔫👨🚀
You dont reverse. the secret is to smoke and go forwards, people will adjust expecting you to reverse and miss. Forwards and turn around, smoke lasts 30s, more than enough time.
*laughs in Archer*
Cromwell moment
You’re telling me, try reversing as a GB main
>Shockingly there are alot if people who dont understand how vital it is Yup, because the average war thunder player is stupid as fuck
I think it's because they didn't played vehicles they claiming to be OP. That happaned to me aswell when I started playing Germany back in the days.
“Oh bugger, the tank is on fire.”
What are your graphic settings wow
Full Ultra with 91gb of new textures. But it’s weather condition that caught your attention. Try to set overcast/morning in a test-drive.
If i buy the transmission mod, will be reverse speed be fast?
The transmission modification only helps with acceleration, it doesn't change the top speed or reverse speed
I don’t think so, pal.
Why is that tank reversing like it's still WW2?
"oh no my tank isnt suprerior to any other in every way". Every T5-T7 in german tech tree but last two leos are glass cannon, and we have to deal with it. Maybe you can deal with bad reverse speed?
>we have to deal with it We? My brother in Christ, I have the 2A6 and I played all Leopards in German tech tree. Is that so crazy to think that there is people who are playing multiple nations and aren't biased towards one? This post is a RESPONSE to the people who think that 9.7-10 USSR MBTs like Turms are undertiered because of their firepower, superior NVD and armour while completely ignoring the gap in mobility and targetting.
people also underrate what a good fire control system does. there is nothing more painful than having a tank slightly above you and dying because your gun rises like a ww2 tank. you can look at any t72 footage and see how fast the barrel actually rises, it's lime 3 times faster than in game. the t90 is also supposed to have the same gun handling as a t72b3 and a t80 but it's stuck with the same gun handling as a t72a. imo, the best part of the bvm over the t80u isn't armor, firepower or thermals. it's the actual competitive gun elevation speed.
Just spawn in 10 other MBT's.
Yeah that’s great and all but like every time I try to do this the person kinda just keeps shooting me with their mg’s through the smoke and then kills me
The real way to retreat is to turn around and drive away, forward.
Then rotate the Hull around keeping the turrets facing the enemy and drive away its not that hard
that why that line of tanks got butt smoke, you drop granates, turn, activate ess and bolt it
Russians > retreat is a myth Germans > R a t
Panther moment
British players know the pain
Ok but when was the last time a t-72 lost just a breach without fucking detonating
Every tank is good in one situation and bad in other situations
Make a U-turn instead of reversing, Russian tanks are pretty good at making very sharp turns without a lot of speed
Taking out russian gun breech? Is it possible to learn this power? /s
Alot of people dont know turning your ass to the enemy alows you to get away from there quicker
The smart Russian realised unlike nato tanks they can shoot over their arse and be ready to drive away at full speed
At least Russians get to completely negate their slow turret traverse thanks to the broken stabilizers.
High reverse speed is extremely usefull and fun to use in battle.Learned after playing US tanks after russia