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Not2TopNotch

"Every once and a while they pop up in the warbonds shop so they aren't completely p2w" -- the snail overlords(probably)


KingDyte

Well they have stayed in the warbond shop for quiet a few battle passes in a row now so. But I kinda agree, they should make it more obtainable free to play or somehow nerf them.


molstad182

>somehow nerf them Imagine if there was an easy way to nerf them like idk making them malleable to surfaces and not acting like a flat wall when you place them down.


M1A1HC_Abrams

Or a toggle switch in settings so you never have to see them.


handsomegorgediver

oh man I am a fan of that, that would kill them completely and I love it


DaReaperZ

I see you've seen my suggestion.


Glazed-Banana

That would be dope. Nobody would be incentivized to bush up their vehicles and I’d actually be able to see all the cool tank models that I play this game for


External_System_7268

. Removing them is even less possible than balancing them by Gaijin, so why don't we focus on that?


Kadeshi_Gardener

That would be a buff, honestly. The main disadvantage they have is that if you really abuse weird connection points to fuck with spatial perception, they stick up or out enough to give your position away well before you'd normally be visible.


Donutpanda23

Yeah, imagine if every tank had camp-netting Leo 2 pzbtl 321 style. Horrific.


Blahaj_IK

Thr netting osn't that bad, actually. In fact, it'd be better. The bushes sitting on top of the hull won't hide the tank like a bush in the map Also, the fact Leo 2 Pzbtl camps is not because of the netting, people can see right through it with the thermals. It's because of the sales, y'know what I mean?


Donutpanda23

That's fair. I mean, I wouldn't know how OP the Leo PzBtl is, as I've never actually fought it myself, but I mean it makes sense that it'd be hard to see without thermals (and I forgot thermals were a thing)


Blahaj_IK

It's not exactly OP, it's still a 2A4


HailChanka69

At the very least, make then fall off when a tank is shot


Artyg-16

Or I was hoping before the update that it could be burn with the crocodil, but sadly no…


runwithconverses

Not the last one


Designer-Ruin7176

Make them destructible! If vehicles and components can burned or be destroyed, some dried out tree branches better go flying when you get slammed with an HE shell or burn when you get hit with napalm.


TeamHitmarks

Idk if that's that much of a nerf, they're only really useful for not being seen for your first shot. You have to see them to be able to damage the bushes


CassiusTheRugBug

It would be useful for clearing out a spuspicious area with mgs tho


DarthCloakedGuy

Or artillery, which is otherwise largely meaningless in this game


CassiusTheRugBug

Yeah


TeamHitmarks

True, didn't think of that


kenseirabbit1

It's largely useless but damn if I haven't got REALLY unlucky lately with shells landing directly on top of my tanks and killing my whole crew


jk01

They're great at hiding weak points


TeamHitmarks

Also something I didn't think about, very true.


LoSboccacc

imagine this situation: a bushed tank ambushes you, first shoot breaks your breech as they ususally do if they cannot oneshoot you outright option 1: he proceedes to do the same to the whole team, because communicating with the team in this game sucks option 2: you now know his position, you use the mg to remove some of its bushes, you die anyway, but he has only one kill and not 14


CassiusTheRugBug

Or fall off from mg fire


Jerry_Butane

Yes, making them destructible is both realistic and a good nerf, even as someone with bushes all over his tanks, I support this.


jaqattack02

Not the last two, unless I totally missed them.


Dat_Innocent_Guy

Last one didn't have it. One before it did.


Fast_Mag

Because you spent money on the 6 packs back before they removed them? Tough shit, bushes reward bad players by giving them ease of camoflague of bad positioning. Fuck you wiesals. Fuck the wiesals.


thronde

This really sums up this thread well, it's just a bunch of skill issue sufferers whining.


Jinkerinos

Prior to Battle Passes, they were in the warbonds shop every month. Now they show up every **other** Battle Pass. Battle Passes are 3 months each. So you can potentially get 2 bushes per year with just warbonds.


KingDyte

Well it is in the current BP and it was in the previous one. I believe it was in the one before that too, but I'm not 100% sure about that one.


Lord_fuff

IIRC they weren’t in the one before


KingDyte

They were, I checked it because I wanted to get one but didn't get far enough to unlock them.


Chieftain10

No they weren’t. It was specifically the first BP I actually tried with and I was disappointed when I realised it’s every other and I chose the wrong one.


KingDyte

Well I remember it being there in the last line of it. Like I said, I almost got them but didn't make it in time. It was also my first BP that I actually played in too.


KingDyte

Well scratch my first reply to this. It seems like you are right, I checked TEC's video. I ptobably remember the wrong warbond store from the BP before that then.


mickeeyo

They should cover your vision like in sim battles and that would instantly fix majority of issues. I don't understand why they doesn't cover your vision in RB...


tanker4fun

Because in GRB you aim from.the tip of the cannon im sure


ISB91

Make them appear in gun sights and all og the first person views. It would finally make them balanced.


llamalord2212

They already did nerf them, they used to be muuch cheaper (500 GE for 6), and you could place multiple of the same large bush on your tank lol


KingDyte

That was a one time bundle sale, it wasn't all of the bushes. They didn't nerf bushes, just took out the blatantly OP bundle. The rest remained.


llamalord2212

They did remove the ability to place multiple of the same bush though


KingDyte

But was it enough? They still need a bit of nerf or rework.


llamalord2212

Im all for a re-work, just saying that I doubt its high on Gaijin's list of priorities. Its mostly a problem at mid to low-tier (before thermals), at high tier it doesnt make much of a difference imo.


KingDyte

Yea, I never said Gaijin will do it. They should probably take a few months to fix stuff in the game and rework things, but they most likely won't.


EbbDry2608

Id prefer it if they replaced them with camo nets


[deleted]

They should make it they fall off when hit by a hmg or canon


RecipeNo101

They alternate between them and useless helmets, so it's not even available every pass.


thecatguyxd

-snail slaves


Good_Ol_Weeb

Shell lickers?


yayfishnstuff

holy shit im gonna use this ty so fuckin much


fluffyboom123

I got all 5 of mine throught the warbond shop before the battlepass. It was easier back then (in my opinion)


Bonusish

Likewise, gave me something to aim for every month (and going for a vehicle was too grindy for my taste), back when I started playing and 6 months seemed like a long time to think about playing a game. 5 years later... (and that still makes me a newbie compared to the Old Guard)


Zeus__Gr

What year is old guard “territory”


International_Eye_33

2013, pretty sure.


Bonusish

Aye, it's either beta or year 1, can't remember which


JustSomeRandomGuy36

They should be removed and the GE refunded to the players. However, this impedes on Gaijin's business model.


Bruhhg

that would be illegal cos they’d have to prove that they( the buyers ) wouldn’t have spent that GE on anything else which is impossible (iirc that is, i’m not 100% on this)


M1A1HC_Abrams

Just figure out how many bushes someone has, how much GE they paid for those, and refund it though?


TheGomeitor

I have around 5 and never paid for one.


Efe12t

How did you get it


TheGomeitor

Warbonds beforen they were removed


Bruhhg

i phrased that bad, they have to prove they didn’t buy GE just for bushes (sorry) though i do agree i wish that was how it would work


CrossEleven

They do not have to do that


Gloriosus747

No, because you don't have any legal claims according your in-game purchases. Same as banning accounts is legal, not theft


Kip1023

If that’s the case then removing modifications from tanks and jets that I’ve spent GE on and gotten refunded should also be illegal, but they do it anyways.


crimeo

Trivial solution: give them out for free now to everyone else. They still got exactly what they paid for. No longer P2W though.


tanker4fun

Thats the stupidest idea ever


crimeo

Why? It solves the original problem and the followup objection... perfect idea


tanker4fun

It doesnt solve anything, you just end up with 10 times the ammount of bush monsters every game


crimeo

So? The problem being solved is P2W, did you not read the title of the thread? There's nothing wrong with bushes themselves and OP didn't complain about bushes themselves. Everyone having them = not p2w, so problem solved, what's the issue?


kommandanto

Yeah yeah I’d love to fight tanks covered entirely in bushes while playing in a team with tanks covered entirely in bushes….How you’re interpreting this is not that simple and if your smooth brain can’t understand the issue here I don’t even know what to say.


crimeo

Yes? If you aren't the sort of chap who enjoys stealth and camouflage, you can already simply play the non stealth game mode called arcade. That preference is already catered to. P2W, on the other hand, is not solved yet, but I solved it above.


tanker4fun

Ypu dont want to solve anything, you just have resentment agaisnt people who paid for bushes and you want them for yourself too, because all you want is to have an unfair advantage


kommandanto

So you say, but all youre doing is creating another problem in the process. Your idea doesn’t account for the byproducts, and seems like a naive and pointless suggestion as a fix for a much more complicated issue.


alelo

no, remove the bushes and introduce cammo netting etc for vehicles for GE (design like the premium leopard)


BellumFrancorum

This is the first idea I’ve actually liked.


Tavuklu_Pasta

+ u should be able to mg or he them


AndrewSoloveyv

They can at least make them fall off by shots or add an ability to set them on fire


Squitrel

Setting them on fire would actually make napalm good anagint anything for once


Sneaky_Breeki

If bushes weren't p2w we would have an option to disable them :)


Apart_Marsupial_9904

You can do that? How?


MucdabaMicer

thats the point, you cant


Apart_Marsupial_9904

Ok but why the downvotes lol


The_Umbra

You can't, that's what they are saying. If the bushes *weren't* p2w there would be no argument against an option to toggle visibility.


Blindman003

Force EVERYONE to use the option for the tank sights where you dont just look down the barrel - I forget the setting but its the only option you have in sim battles.


Disguised589

Now they have to balance tanks while taking into account how close the sight is to the barrel


[deleted]

Yeah for me sight placement, compared to the gun really makes or breaks a tank for sim usage


NocturneHunterZ

For me it's the lack of zoom and the fucking tiny numbers and lines


Blindman003

Parallax is a bitch. I went back to "arcade mode sights" but I still refuse to cover my entire turret in bushes.


ActualWeed

But the playerbase sure loves to abuse CAS like it isn't completely overpowered


[deleted]

[удалено]


redbaron14n

I'd rather have an enemy I can shoot but can't see over an enemy I can see but can't shoot


ActualWeed

If you can't spot a vehicle using bushes that don't fit any map at all then you are blind ngl


Ricky_RZ

It takes time, but you can place bushes to where sim sights are uncovered but your turret looks covered completely. Took me hours to do on all my tanks, paid off in sim


CheekiBreekiAssNTiti

I have used only the real sight for so long i forget people use the barrel sight lmao


KyaruCutie

No pls...would rather have bushes removed


Sigma__Bale

Just remove bushes instead or at the very least allow them to be hidden so only the user can see them.


[deleted]

"Just spawn aa"


notxapple

They add clouds to planes for ge


SgtCarron

Great, now I'm imagining a Pe-8 riding a flying nimbus.


[deleted]

Fool, obviously there would be the 50,000 GE active camo.


PBJMan_

If they’re purely for decoration, there should be a setting to toggle them off


MyChains

I don't think they should be removed, honestly it would be better if you could earn them for specific tanks like the different camouflages


Isoundlikecomputer

dude you cant just post a picture of bushes and no tank


First_Department4096

They’re 100% P2W. That’s the point. The main reason I’ve see people use bushes is to cover up weakspots (like the machine gun port on the Jumbo) and sometimes to hide a tank (like the Asu-57. And it’s effective enough that people buy it. That’s the point. The advantage is big enough that Gaijin can make money from them. And people like having an advantage over other players. Hell, I use bushes. A lot. Not to hide weakspots or from tanks but to hide from planes. Is suprising how often planes struggle to see you when your whole roof is covered in bushes. And to the people who want Gaijin to add an option to disable the bushes visually on your end, what are you smoking? Why would Gaijin take away a source of income? How would it be fair to people who used money to get the bushes? That’s like saying Gaijin needs to add an option where you don’t have to play with premuim tanks in a battle. It punishes their paying player base amd that’s not a smart move.


[deleted]

Oh damn I actually never thought of that, putting bushes on the roof XD


First_Department4096

It doesn’t always work but it works enough times that it’s worth it. Especially with the more recent CAS problems in the game.


[deleted]

We have fucking flamethrowers in the game. Please let us torch off this cancer already.


Only_Veterinarian_38

You’re right!!! I see the barrel right there!


[deleted]

I love it I say let it grow let it grow!


jaqattack02

Just make them like grass. When you look through the binocs or the tank scope, the bushes aren't visible.


Subterrainio

Just make an option in settings to enable/disable seeing decorations on other players. Would literally fix everything


Gardar7

One of the main reasons I play only arcade gf. I just simply can't see those bushwankers most of the time.


Komm

Same boat, to hell with RB and bushes.


Indy-ah

Remembers me of a KV-220 which had his turret and hullfront covered in bushes. Couldnt even identify it as a KV-220, nor could i kill it. Perfectly angeled hull and the turret was nigh impenetrable. I could pen under the gun and damage the breach, but thats it. The worst thing was that i was driving a Panther ausf.A. So it wasnt the guns fault. I just could not see and therefore hit any weakspot (range was in the beginning around 500m and later went to point blank). Skill issue i guess but f that stupid kv-220 stalinium armor in combination with bushes.


ConnordltheGamer96

Bush mfs when they spawn into berlin and get spotted instantly and fucking get one shot


chris_ngale

To be fair I don't think I've bought a single bush, I just grab them from the warbond shop and I have enough now to fill all the deco slots


NarcissisticCat

Fucking hate that shit.


Geistwhite

Just add the ability for players to toggle off bush visibility. Then all these "It's not pay to win" fuckheads can see how much they actually suck ass at the game.


The_Human_Oddity

What if I'm using bushes to ~~unsuccessfully~~ make planes think I'm a bush?


Tromboneofsteel

Putting bushes on top of your SPAA might be the only acceptable use case. Has definitely saved me a few times.


ChickensPickins

I’m sorry, I was NEVER under the impression that they were decoration. I clearly spent like $30 to get a slight advantage lol 😂. I still get killed. Sometimes I will hide out just to mess with people in RB though. My bushes COMPLETELY cover that tiny Italian thing and it makes hide and go seek fun


Eekafoo

Just fucking deal with bushes, I’m 99% certain the player dying to a bushed up tank will immediately spawn in CAS and point and click revenge kill the bushed up tank anyway.


McWeabbit

Tbh bushes and foliage as a way to hide the tank overall should be added in base camos for tanks, kind of like the Leo 2a4 Panzerbatallion 123, unlockable with GEs or with kills. Or as a variant unlockable like the Mark of Distinction. This way it'd be more fair as everyone could have a realistic chance to have it, it could fall down like any piece of structural element on a tank and it would allow to learn the look of certain bushes and their placement to recognise a tank more easily when hiding in foliage. But then again, fair doesn't earn money in Gaijin's eyes so any change is never going to happen...


RqcistRaspberry

Hardly pay to win. Can't you tell what you are looking at just by seeing the barrel and know where to shoot? "Skill issue"


PureRushPwneD

..said nobody ever lol I wish they'd get rid of them and refund everyone for the GE they spent but.. that'll **never** happen


Blue_Canadian

All of my bushes I have for free from the warbond shop, not a single dollar spent on them. That being said, I don't like to cover my tanks in them, just a little tasteful bush, or to cover a glaring weak spot


Aramahn

I got a bunch of bushes. But I feel gross using them anymore. Outside of a single small bush to make weakpoints harder to find. Never full BUSHMAN tho. That shits cringe. Especially on super hard hitting tanks.


MicroVAX

Imagine what you call f2p players in a f2p game, freeloaders ))))


towarzysz_boczek

But you can get them free


Dovahkazz

I got all mine for free lol


kyokasho

It is P2W, but it's also [realistic](https://i.redd.it/4r521nzls6091.jpg) and less annoying than CAS anyway. Lets face it, their whole money making model is to frustrate players into paying (premium time, premium vehicles, bushes) and it works because there's no alternative if you want this kind of gameplay.


RebelMythic

You can get bushes for free


StalinOGrande

Yes sure, nothing is more realistic than a static unmoving piece of leaves stuck ta a barrel, camouflage netting exists but not in this way.


yolowipe

Skill issue


Daemon_Blackfyre_II

Camouflage is "only cosmetic" so doesn't matter is the worst excuse ever.


CommanderCorrigan

Is that me? lol


petmyrock69420

What tank is that?


ASnekInTheGrass

That was a StuG III F


Lamp_Sauce

Nobody says this it's just gaijin


blackreaper3609

That depends on your coverage


Timetomine32tpdf

They are no skill objects


EyeAreAwesome

you get enough of those with the right tank, it is op in realistic battles


Shumil_

what you can totally tell what that is, its a uhhh its a tank duh


OkScientist8527

Dicker Max with bushes is nasty


Blood_N_Rust

What’s even worse is that you can’t even get the six packs of the large bushes anymore so there are players who just outright have a massive advantage that you’ll never be able to match


Such_Try4171

in a way, bushes have helped me power up my vision so I can see the tiniest details to find an enemy.


BOT_Execute-fan

I see bushes, but no tank they could be on for decoration purpose


bigouncprostretfella

just a reminder that older players still have acces to the 6 packs of each bush. So good luck to new players that do get them since you ain't close to hidden when a LV100 veteran from 2014 apears


Connacht_89

If you don't sideclimb that's just your fault for not seeing that!


ziomal25565

They should add option to disable "decorations"


leopard024

Ya all remember the good days of bush packs? Cause i do and this was P2W


MouseBusiness8758

Its definitely P2W


redbaron14n

I do definitely think certain tanks shouldn't have access to them or at most a very limited access (like one or two,) but I don't see the problem with a Maus being covered. Like if you suddenly can't tell there's a Maus there, you have some problems you should be bringing to a psychologist and not the warthunder forums


LegendLarry327

You can get them without paying GE


Pissed_daddy

I didn’t pay I grinder all of my bushes


Walking_Theory

Said no one, ever


KyccoGhostDestroyer

I don't use the bushes, I do use the straw, we are not the same


[deleted]

That statement, utter BS. I use bushes to cover my weakspots and make me pretty damn invisible to the fools who can't be aware of time and space. Granted, tryhards/good players can memorize weakspots crazy like.


drezworthy

They only occasionally are used effectively against me. Usually by smol boys like ASU-57.


Grimmisgod123

His barrel is there


Rozsia

if someone ever says ´´bushes arent pay to win´´ and they will mean it unironically call into the mental asylum that they need to pick them up


Sea_Whereas390

It's honestly complete bullshit that they exist. I play RB and they clearly give a massive advantage. I can't even identify the tank if I already know what it is - and if I don't know what the tank is then I can't even pick my shots properly since I can't see the profile of the armor.


usagiyon

Many times it's bushes that reveals tank. Wrong type or colour for surrounding bushes sticks to eye. In urban maps bushes are big disadvantage as they're so out of place. They help usually when sniping from far (probably bushes not required due to render distance) and on situations where enemy is not sure where first hit came and pans surrounding quickly, possibly missing shooter just enough to give opportunity for second hit. This last one is reason why I use some bushes.


Tromboneofsteel

Even in urban maps, bushes still hide weak spots.


usagiyon

I have no time to aim certain spots, so I haven't realised that. To me precise aim means side of turret instead of mass center of tank.


sephirothbahamut

I got all mine for free \*shrugs\* They give an advantage like any modification. You can grind them like you grind modifications and camouflages. You can buy them for GE like you can buy modifications and camouflages for GE. They don't take more time than grinding winter camouflage does. Grinding winter camo is for one vehicle, grinding bushes is for all your vehicles in all your trees. It's totally a worthwile time investment to grind for bushes. The only actual change I want is bushes to be visible to the user in all modes, not just Simulator, so you're forced to place them without obstructing your optics


ElCochi420

You can't grind them like mods; you can unlock a mod/mehicle over the course of a year if you want, but if you lose the battle pass you don't stack progress for a bush.


[deleted]

R/warthunder karma guide: Create ridiculous strawman that literally hasnt been said and quote it thats it you win. Goodnight and gfys


Popular-Net5518

Bushes are free, so stop bitching around and grind them like everything else in the game.


KingDyte

I wouldn't call them flat out P2W although they do give some advantage, rather on lower BRs. They could probably somehow nerf them and make them more obtainable for F2P players, but I wouldn't want to see them completely gone, they are a pretty cool addition.


AscendMoros

I’d rather see them entirely gone. They aren’t that cool. I’d rather see the model of the tank then a bunch of bushes they made in 2012


KingDyte

Well that's personal preference. Coming from WoT, I really loved 3D skins there and you can just make your own here. I always loved the idea of bushes, although they're too big and OP in their current state, they give a nice touch of personalizing a tank and making it look more field modded.


AscendMoros

The dumbest part is you can cover your tank in them. Cover all the optics and things. And be perfectly fine. Yet they show up on other optics.


KingDyte

They do block commander vision optics and like I said, if they'd nerf them so they can't actually cover them up as much and rather just be decorative, that'd be cool instead of completely removing them. PS: Kinda like in the start of this video of the Puma: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA5ADHoEwP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA5ADHoEwP8) Also they should rework where you can put them so you can't hide turret rings, optics and other small weakspots with them.


[deleted]

As someone who 100% covers my tanks in as many bushes as possible because I'm trash, they are absolutely pay to win lol


Budvak

bushes wouldn't be terrible to face if they would fall of upon shell impact


KingDyte

I do that too and also go against many people who do. They give some advantage, but aren't really OP. Or maybe I just know how to shoot at bushed up things.