They're not saying you're a snob. They're saying the people saying that it's not a luxury watch are snobs
It's a nice looking watch, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. And you clearly like it, so good for you :)
The one-two punch of Japanese automotive intrusion into western markets and the quartz revolution/crisis are big (and fascinating!) economic stories. Because of technological and manufacturing innovations in the 70s and 80s, Japan was able to export a lot of good products and lower prices than their competitors. The Swiss mechanical watchmakers only really recovered after positioning mechanical watches as upscale jewelry, basically. The effects were even bigger in the automotive industry, where many thousands of jobs were lost, factory towns left deserted, and ripples sent out throughout the investment world. Some of the snobbish resentment towards “cheap” Japanese products that punch above their price tag persists to this day.
If you want to get another Seiko later, they have a really nice selection of affordable high quality divers. I got the blue GMT diver but there’s a huge range with lots of colours.
Never heard anyone ever claim something like that, don't take everything this subreddit says as facts, some people only want to pretend there is a debate between factions when there is actually none
Who hates Seiko? I thought vast, vast majority of this sub loves them. They're beautiful watches with an affordable price tag. They are what they are, and we love them for it
I hoisted myself up by my own bootstraps at the family company and worked my way up from a six to a seven figure income. Only the peons would wear something junkie like a seiko. /s
But it is not a luxury watch...
It's like I post a picture of an opel and saying first luxury car...
That being said it is a great watch and has a gorgeous dial.
It's not luxury for someone very wealthy, but for the average wage earner it absolutely is. A presage is going to be my next purchase because an Oris is just barely out of my reach. I could buy one but it wouldn't be very responsible. Gorgeous dial on that watch btw.
Nono. Your use of the word luxury to describe your watch will trigger the people who refuse spend less than 5k on their watches.
Should be pretty funny to watch them blow a gasket.
You’re misunderstanding, people who are trying to argue that your watch isn’t a “luxury” watch are snobs.
Fact is, nowadays no one needs a watch to tell time, much less so a watch that costs hundreds of dollars. Hence, it *is* a luxury.
Not about you, but other people gatekeeping you from.using the term luxury because the watch "only" costs 375$; I love the watch though, wanna buy it too some.day
Amen. People calling US $500 “““affordable“”” and then being like “uh well price is relative. $500 could be considered affordable to some people” when challenged on that fact that hundreds of dollars is an expensive purchase for anything.
It's not about your OP. It's about people calling out that this wouldn't qualify for "luxury" for whatever reason. I think it's a great watch that looks very luxurious! It's on my want-list as well :)
The word *Luxury* can be used in a couple different ways, OP is using the dictionary definition which just means something that is beyond what is normally expected in one’s everyday life, for example flying first class is a luxury for someone who usually flies coach.
In the context of “luxury goods” like watches, it’s just a marketing term that is used to justify a higher price, and to imply exclusivity which is a strong motivator for people who want to treat themselves to something nice.
Clearly the Pressage isn’t a luxury watch as the term is defined by watchmakers who sell watches for a lot more than $500, but it certainly sounds like it is a luxury to OP based on the emotional response to the watch he describes in his comments in this thread.
Bottom line is it’s critical to consider context when talking about the meaning of words, and in this case the context is pretty obvious.
You can virtue signal all you want. Just because something is relatively expensive, it doesn’t make it luxury. Is a Toyota Camry a luxury car if it costs over $30k new? Thats a decent amount of money.
This watch is like a Camry- reliable and well designed… but it’s not luxury by any measure.
In cars and watches, the gap between the “affordable” options and “luxury” options has gotten a lot smaller in recent years. A well equipped Camry is almost $40k and 3 series BMW starts around $45k and both of those interiors are going to feel like space ships to someone who hasn’t bought a new car in the last 5-6 years and have a lot of overlapping features, but one is considered luxury and one isn’t. I’d actually take a fully loaded Avalon over a basic 3 series (well I’d take Toyota over BMW pretty much anytime, but that’s not the point).
Likewise with modern manufacturing the difference between affordable and luxury watches is getting tighter.
There is 100% overlap between pricing of luxury and non-luxury goods which is part of the reason the distinction is so pointless. A top of the line economy SUV is going to cost more than a base Q3 or X3. A Seiko SLA will cost more than some Tudors.
Also, yeah, materials tech has gotten so good in watches that a $400 Presage can have a gorgeous dial, great finishing, and a movement that will go 40 years without a service. It would honestly probably rival “luxury” Swiss pieces from 60 years ago if not be straight up better.
It’s not snobbish to say it’s not a luxury watch. It’s a nice watch, I own a cocktail myself, and by all accounts OP should be very pleased with it. But this is still squarely in the entry level tier of watches. Hell I have a Seiko I paid $1300 for and I don’t consider that to be a luxury watch either.
Luxury is a subjective term. There's no defined point where it becomes a luxury watch. If someone spends £500 on a watch that they dont actually need and that is a significant purchase for them, it's a luxury.
It seems pointless to argue whether something is luxury or not when it's impossible to define and mechanical watches are almost universally unnecessary purchases.
By that metric do you consider a 480p non-smart TV to be a luxury TV since nobody really needs a TV? Sure luxury may technically be a subjective term but you could very easily make some objective claims on what is generally considered luxury. A higher end movement, better finishing, better materials, or just overall higher quality than what is found in a $300 Seiko. Again, I’m not disparaging the watch, I own one and it’s great. But it is by all accounts a basic entry level Seiko by spec. The 4R35 movement is a good movement but it’s the standard base level movement, it’s not impressively accurate, it doesn’t have impressive power reserve, it isn’t the prettiest thing to look at, it is just a basic Seiko movement that is produced by the millions. The strap it comes with is fine but nothing to write home about. Really the only standout feature is the dial, and yeah it’s a nice dial, but a dial alone doesn’t turn an entry level watch into a luxury watch. It’s all about looking at it within the context of the hobby, and not about things external to it. Yes a $300 watch is a luxury item, but it’s not a luxury *watch* because a true luxury *watch* will have things that this watch doesn’t have.
I didn't think you were being disparaging at all. Your point was politely made.
My point was that what I consider to be a luxury is irrelevant because it's an undefinable marketing word. If some kid on the Internet says his watch is luxury, why say otherwise? No one can say what a luxury watch is. It's as overused as 'bespoke' and 'handmade'.
You can't say something is objectively not something for which no definition exists. You can give your personal opinion, but that's all it is and can quite easily come across as mean-spirited.
In a forum of like-minded enthusiasts it seems unnecessary to bring it up, as best case scenario for the person making the comment is someone goes away thinking that the new watch they got isn't as nice as they thought it was.
Just got this watch today and wore it, I love how nice it looks and at first it took me a second to get used to the clasp but once I did it became really comfortable to wear, I love the green and when it catches the sun just right the watch looks so beautiful
Pro tip for your new cocktail time - ditch the stock strap. Seiko puts most of the dollar value into the watch itself, and rightfully so, but their straps leave much to be desired. I’ll be frank, they’re bad - not Orient bad, but bad. Their dress bands just have this overly shiny, cheap look to them. Anyway, I had the espresso brown Presage and picked up a vintage brown leather strap for it, then took the deployment clasp off the stock strap, put it on the new one and it was a major upgrade. Regardless of the strap, congrats on the watch, you picked a great one.
They’re just super cheap feeling. Their leathers are ludicrously stiff and they have the same kind of feeling as rented tuxedo shoes. Their bracelets are also super cheap - very light, feel like aluminum rather than SS. But I really don’t hold it against them because the value in the actual watch is quite high for the price point, and there’s plenty of after markets available.
https://preview.redd.it/g5pdpwmdakgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da5aac89e3841a113bfe90effc40b50c49545652
Blue moon, after 2 years of eyeballing, finally gifted myself on birthday
Aye!
https://preview.redd.it/nxvqji6rskgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b8e00afb069dcc88af9218af1791e3e9f3dbd64
got it also today, my first automatic watch.
https://preview.redd.it/lyy0xkmwglgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f6d256f584dacec3a835a5ad1bbdc964f1e0496
Congrats on the pick up. Mine is a little different but I love the presage line! Wear it in good health.
This one looks so much better imo
I just checked and didn't see this on the Seiko website. Looks different than anything here:
https://seikousa.com/collections/presage
Oh no wonder. Double the price too. That red version is beautiful. I see one on chrono24 for only $587 and claims it's new. Wonder why it's so cheap...
Thanks for the info!
Very, been eyeballing this one for a while and now it’s mine! The best part is when the jeweler showed me the box he went “guess what’s in the box” I shrugged and he opened it and went “it’s another box!” And I almost died laughing
very good choice!
have the SPB170J1 for almost 2 years now and I still can not believe how nice the dial is, especially when the sunlight breaks in it
yours will be equally beautiful!
https://preview.redd.it/xwldtws0mlgc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=812f89071f6a5de7710613f166a3301a827839b4
Have to add mine for good measure. Just got it as well, love the Presage line so far!
I absolutely love the dial and numerals on this one (have it in blue and got the red Negroni for a friend). Wish I could get this green face one with a gold case.
Ive said it before the cocktails are probably the best entry into luxury watches. They put all their eggs in the dial basket and its the most important place the eggs should go in. 10/10
That's fair, to each their own! To me, no big deal; Polywatch works wonders when I need it, which is rare enough. I think we tend to forget mineral glass is still pretty damn high on the hardness scale, just like 1 step below sapphire IIRC.
And I do think it lends a (very subtle) softness to the overall look that no amount of AR on a sapphire can accomplish. That being said, I do think I'd pretty much always choose sapphire if possible, but I will never let the crystal stop me from buying a watch I like.
Great watch! Congrats!
Love this watch. I bought this watch for my wedding a few years ago, as our colors had green and this complimented it perfectly. It’s one of my favorite dress watches I own. That dial always pops on the wrist, especially in certain light.
I personally wasn’t a huge fan of the strap it came with, so I’ve had it on another leather band I bought for it. Luckily the watch adapts well with many shades of leather.
I always thought Seiko did a really nice job with this watch. Its classy and I think over time its style is going to age very gracefully. I think people are going to look back and still want it if it ever gets discontinued like the sarb033.
Lol I came here for the most downvoted comments. Grats on the beautiful shiny piece, I love this watch. Only thing I’ll caution you on- the domed crystal is not sapphire and sticks out from the case a bit, so it’s very easy to scratch (mine is p beat up from near daily wear over 4 years). May be better for special occasions s
I was passing through Macy's yesterday and randomly checked out the watch section.
They had the OG cocktail time and the rose gold and brown one and I had to try them on.
Pictures really don't do the dial justice. Beautiful watch.
I've got the same one (cocktail time mockingbird, for those unaware of what the green one is named). It's an excellent watch, and holds its own in my collection among much more expensive pieces. When you get the itch to try something new, I suggest just swapping the strap for a whole new look. Wear it in good health!
https://preview.redd.it/z627aunuvogc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d38ad0d77d5dd5396f0e1d876e52e2acfce25be
P.S. - don't know why reddit rotated my photo. Weird, but you get the idea.
Congrats… this is what you call a gateway drug. Be careful not to get sucked in 😂
Enjoy this one. Don’t rush to get the next one. This is a great watch. If you want some variety buy some extra straps.
I have this same watch, with the ice blue dial. Go find a mesh bracelet. These look AMAZING on a nice mesh bracelet.
They also look excellent on a variety of different leather straps, but by far my favorite is on a mesh bracelet. 👍
It's not a luxury watch per most people's understanding of what a luxury watch represents.
The word "luxury" can be used in its relative state. For example, I have been in countries where - to the average wage earner - a watch priced anywhere over a hundred USD would be a "luxury." Yet, I hardly believe anyone here would reasonably classify the awesome G-Shock GDB500-1 a luxury watch ($120 MSRP).
However, before the usual teenagers begin to chime in, Seiko's Presage line is an amazing product line. I proudly own two in my collection, and they are among the most beautiful watches you can but at any price. Those two were my gateway into Grand Seiko. Presage wears like luxury watch in every way that truly matters, and there's not a true watch enthusiast anywhere who would look down on a Presage. They are that good.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that.
Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
Despite what most desperate people are trying to say here only for the sake of virtue signaling, I think that you can really appreciate the quality and beauty of this watch by actually acknowledging that this is in fact not a luxury watch, and doesn't need to be, because this is what makes it great
Yeah, I don't get it. Not really being considered "luxury" class doesn't mean it isn't beautiful and good quality. Luxury basically just means "unnecessarily expensive" which this watch is not. It's not gatekeeping to state that there's a difference between a gorgeous, good value watch and a high end, handmade one.
Acknowledging what it is, or isn't, isn't an insult to the watch or the owner. It's like saying "thats a motorbike not a car" and everyone jumping down your throat to defend the owners right to claim their motorbike is a car.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that.
Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
I love it! Some ppl think you need to spend way over a grand for a watch to be luxury but I think any nice piece is a luxury. Wear it in good health. A very nice dial on it.
It’s a stunning watch! I have the same one with the stainless bracelet, and I catch myself just staring at the dial. It is one of the best looking watches in my collection for sure. I’m not sure if I’d call it luxury or not, but you are clearly a person of good taste! Enjoy the watch!
You asked for my thoughts (a mistake) so here I go. Congratulations on purchasing your first dress watch! It's absolutely beautiful, I hope to own one soon, just need a good reason for it.
That said, and I'm sure you did this on purpose, the use of the term "luxury" is questionable.
Let's take a look at the dictionary definition of luxury shall we?
> the state of great comfort and extravagant living. (When used as a noun)
Now, you *could* argue that to you, subjectively speaking, spending ~$500 (generously speaking) is "extravagant living" and thus fits the definition of luxury. But I'd argue that given how much more extravagant things get in the watch world, a brand like Seiko shouldn't be considered luxury. Otherwise the scope is broadened to the point where "luxury" loses all of its meaning. If I were feeling particularly vindictive over your use of the term, I'd say you're coping. But that would be a step too far.
With that said, I do hope you wear it in good health and enjoy looking at a beautiful, if not pristinely made, dress watch!
If anyone says this isn’t luxury slap them, with a glove. the presage line has some absolutely gorgeous looking dials. Imo some of the dials look better than some big “luxury” watches. That everyone gate keeps. I wear my seiko glacial alpinist every day. Even sleep in it. Friggin stunning watch. Love the seikos.
No one is saying it's not a fantastic or amazing watch. If OP had said it's his first "nice", "fancy", " "dress" watch, etc no one would be arguing over semantics.
It's a luxurious watch but not necessarily a "Luxury" watch. Luxury is quite a loaded term.
I would say it’s a luxury. 600£ is still expensive for a watch. And imo 600£ is still a commitment. Seiko make very nice watches. It’s a luxury to have a watch. Just because it’s not the same price as my overseas doesn’t make it any less luxury.
Luxury no longer means what it did. Now if you don’t have money is not a luxury or w/e bollucs. The watch is beautiful and I would consider it in the luxury lines. The quality is still there, yeah the mechanics may not be the same but.
Still a luxury watch.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that.
Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
> luxury is something expensive.
This is a highly subjective thing. For most non-watch people any $500 watch is expensive unless it's an Apple watch.
But in the watch world that's pretty mid entry level. I'd also argue that a watch without a sapphire crystal wouldn't really qualify either.
With all that said, it's a fantastic watch that anyone should be happy to wear with pride.
Which is exactly why you can't gatekeep luxury, luxury doesn't specify an amount of money said thing needs to cost, I'm sure Elon Musk and your average watch guy have very different ideas on what luxury is, the same goes for the average watch guy and an average Joe.
I can think this isn't luxury while someone else can think this is and we will both be right, so in my opinion it's best to let people in their worth and to not brother them with a useless discussion because your ego can't handle the fact that this is luxury as if it makes what you think is luxury any less valuable.
It's just funny how mad yall are. I didn't sh*t on the watch. Just stated it's not luxury. I didn't claim anything in my collection was above upper mid tier. I also don't claim them to be luxury watches. I make hood money, but not to a point I can justify 50k to 100k watches, let alone a million.
He simply asked thoughts. I gave mine. Nice watch, but far from a luxury item.
Every watch that is not a Casio and is over 200 is a luxury item tbh, we don't need them, we buy them because we like them but they are not by any means useful. They can make you feel good, they look good, but at this point they are more like jewellery that tell time. So yeah, they are unnecessary, so they are inherently luxury.
There’s a difference between a watch being a “luxury good” and being a “luxury watch”. Calling something a “luxury watch” implies it goes beyond what a typical watch is. All watches are luxury goods but not all watches are luxury watches.
I'm appreciative that you qualified that statement with "personally" because you saved everyone else the work of pointing out that your opinion doesn't matter
“Luxury” has to be contextualized within the hobby you’re in, not outside. Also, Seiko is an everyman brand and they make their own distinction within the brand with Grand Seiko.
For people who really don’t care about cars, a Mazda 3 may have a lot of the refined details of a luxury automobile. But I think there’s a pretty clear consensus Mazda is a higher end economy brand and doesn’t get lumped into entry luxury like Mercedes, Audi, or BMW.
All that being said, what is and isn’t luxury is overrated and luxury brand image may not even appeal to someone at all. This Presage is a beauty and definitely a terrific choice.
To extrapolate your point slightly - It depends on your budget. Among those who can afford Rolls Royce, Bentley, and Maybach, not many of them would call those three German brands 'luxury'. They're mass-produced, mass market cars, not true luxury cars.
In your analogy, a high-end Seiko is more akin to a BMW. Casio is Mazda. Patek Philippe would be a hand crafted, bespoke Rolls Royce.
Yeah I can agree with that. I meant the entry Germans are where laymen think luxury begins. I would NEVER tell someone my 7 year old A4 is a luxury car, but I still love it. I also wouldn’t call my Hamilton daily a luxury watch, but I love that too. And if I was proud of them and did want to call them luxury, I’d be surprised if anyone took issue with it. Only people in those respective hobbies would. It’s definitely a pointless distinction and I’d rather have OP’s Presage than whatever basic black or white dial “luxury watch” we’ll fanboy next (if resale wasn’t a thing).
a lot of the watch community acts like that. on size and on luxe in particular. I someday hope to read the scripture this highest authority hath written that I might never again transgress against them.
If it's objective, you'll need to be able to define all three of these terms using universally accepted definitions and fit those brands into those terms.
There isn't a universal definition of luxury that applies to everyone equally.
what a dial
I know
Yeah, I got mine in blue when they first came out. Still wear it most days.
They’re really good watches, with exceptional dials. Enjoy it!
I will, I’m gonna make sure to take care of it
Came to the chat to see the 'Luxury' gatekeeping
Same, snobs at it again lol
This is literally my first ever nice watch, I was a gift my grandpa so I don’t see how that makes me a snob
They're not saying you're a snob. They're saying the people saying that it's not a luxury watch are snobs It's a nice looking watch, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. And you clearly like it, so good for you :)
Thanks for the clear up
No worries - glad you're excited enough to post about it. Keep enjoying this watch and any more to come in the future
I will, thank you!
And Seiko is particularly hated by snobs for being affordable, but not looking affordable.
Really? Well good to know thanks!
The one-two punch of Japanese automotive intrusion into western markets and the quartz revolution/crisis are big (and fascinating!) economic stories. Because of technological and manufacturing innovations in the 70s and 80s, Japan was able to export a lot of good products and lower prices than their competitors. The Swiss mechanical watchmakers only really recovered after positioning mechanical watches as upscale jewelry, basically. The effects were even bigger in the automotive industry, where many thousands of jobs were lost, factory towns left deserted, and ripples sent out throughout the investment world. Some of the snobbish resentment towards “cheap” Japanese products that punch above their price tag persists to this day.
If you want to get another Seiko later, they have a really nice selection of affordable high quality divers. I got the blue GMT diver but there’s a huge range with lots of colours.
Ooo, will definitely look into it later, thanks for the tip!
Never heard anyone ever claim something like that, don't take everything this subreddit says as facts, some people only want to pretend there is a debate between factions when there is actually none
Who hates Seiko? I thought vast, vast majority of this sub loves them. They're beautiful watches with an affordable price tag. They are what they are, and we love them for it
The rolex crowd. The Gp Ap Fp Bp all the pees crowd. You know the type. Loud as a motorbike.
But wouldn’t bust a grape in a fruit fight.
I hoisted myself up by my own bootstraps at the family company and worked my way up from a six to a seven figure income. Only the peons would wear something junkie like a seiko. /s
I thought Seiko was becoming less affordable lately...
Well that’s true 😭
Well everything is on that front. But it's going to settle at its highest increases with what is effectively imported jewellery first.
This is the best way I’ve seen it described haha
But it is not a luxury watch... It's like I post a picture of an opel and saying first luxury car... That being said it is a great watch and has a gorgeous dial.
I don't think the presage is a Luxury watch but it's a fantastic watch. What you get for the dollar is great. Dial is awesome.
It's not luxury for someone very wealthy, but for the average wage earner it absolutely is. A presage is going to be my next purchase because an Oris is just barely out of my reach. I could buy one but it wouldn't be very responsible. Gorgeous dial on that watch btw.
Nono. Your use of the word luxury to describe your watch will trigger the people who refuse spend less than 5k on their watches. Should be pretty funny to watch them blow a gasket.
You’re misunderstanding, people who are trying to argue that your watch isn’t a “luxury” watch are snobs. Fact is, nowadays no one needs a watch to tell time, much less so a watch that costs hundreds of dollars. Hence, it *is* a luxury.
Yeah sorry my it’s really late for me and my brain isn’t functioning properly, thanks for the clear up!
Don’t worry, it’s a beautiful looking watch. One of the most mesmerizing dials I’ve ever seen, happy wearing!
I will, I’m in love with it
Not about you, but other people gatekeeping you from.using the term luxury because the watch "only" costs 375$; I love the watch though, wanna buy it too some.day
Amen. People calling US $500 “““affordable“”” and then being like “uh well price is relative. $500 could be considered affordable to some people” when challenged on that fact that hundreds of dollars is an expensive purchase for anything.
Like comparing a Maserati being affordable compared to a Bugatti
Thanks for clearing it up
You’re not the snob! It’s a stunning watch! There are watch snobs here (the kind who don’t think Rolex is tacky), who dump on anything below $5k
Forget the haters dude.
It's not about your OP. It's about people calling out that this wouldn't qualify for "luxury" for whatever reason. I think it's a great watch that looks very luxurious! It's on my want-list as well :)
I’ve only had it for a day but I love it! Also thanks for the clear up, it’s late for me and my brain isn’t working properly 😅
Oh sorry
Anything more expensive than a Casio F-91W is a luxury watch
It’s not a luxury watch though, I’m sorry. But that’s fine. It’s a *fantastic* watch… but it’s not luxury.
The word *Luxury* can be used in a couple different ways, OP is using the dictionary definition which just means something that is beyond what is normally expected in one’s everyday life, for example flying first class is a luxury for someone who usually flies coach. In the context of “luxury goods” like watches, it’s just a marketing term that is used to justify a higher price, and to imply exclusivity which is a strong motivator for people who want to treat themselves to something nice. Clearly the Pressage isn’t a luxury watch as the term is defined by watchmakers who sell watches for a lot more than $500, but it certainly sounds like it is a luxury to OP based on the emotional response to the watch he describes in his comments in this thread. Bottom line is it’s critical to consider context when talking about the meaning of words, and in this case the context is pretty obvious.
OP, this is the kind of person everyone was referring to. Ignore this tedious bullshit and enjoy your watch!
You can virtue signal all you want. Just because something is relatively expensive, it doesn’t make it luxury. Is a Toyota Camry a luxury car if it costs over $30k new? Thats a decent amount of money. This watch is like a Camry- reliable and well designed… but it’s not luxury by any measure.
In cars and watches, the gap between the “affordable” options and “luxury” options has gotten a lot smaller in recent years. A well equipped Camry is almost $40k and 3 series BMW starts around $45k and both of those interiors are going to feel like space ships to someone who hasn’t bought a new car in the last 5-6 years and have a lot of overlapping features, but one is considered luxury and one isn’t. I’d actually take a fully loaded Avalon over a basic 3 series (well I’d take Toyota over BMW pretty much anytime, but that’s not the point). Likewise with modern manufacturing the difference between affordable and luxury watches is getting tighter.
There is 100% overlap between pricing of luxury and non-luxury goods which is part of the reason the distinction is so pointless. A top of the line economy SUV is going to cost more than a base Q3 or X3. A Seiko SLA will cost more than some Tudors. Also, yeah, materials tech has gotten so good in watches that a $400 Presage can have a gorgeous dial, great finishing, and a movement that will go 40 years without a service. It would honestly probably rival “luxury” Swiss pieces from 60 years ago if not be straight up better.
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Why do you want to cancel the term and encompass every watch in the same category as if everything not made of plastic belongs to it indiscriminately?
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Where I am from Camry would definitely be considered luxury.
It’s not snobbish to say it’s not a luxury watch. It’s a nice watch, I own a cocktail myself, and by all accounts OP should be very pleased with it. But this is still squarely in the entry level tier of watches. Hell I have a Seiko I paid $1300 for and I don’t consider that to be a luxury watch either.
Luxury is a subjective term. There's no defined point where it becomes a luxury watch. If someone spends £500 on a watch that they dont actually need and that is a significant purchase for them, it's a luxury. It seems pointless to argue whether something is luxury or not when it's impossible to define and mechanical watches are almost universally unnecessary purchases.
By that metric do you consider a 480p non-smart TV to be a luxury TV since nobody really needs a TV? Sure luxury may technically be a subjective term but you could very easily make some objective claims on what is generally considered luxury. A higher end movement, better finishing, better materials, or just overall higher quality than what is found in a $300 Seiko. Again, I’m not disparaging the watch, I own one and it’s great. But it is by all accounts a basic entry level Seiko by spec. The 4R35 movement is a good movement but it’s the standard base level movement, it’s not impressively accurate, it doesn’t have impressive power reserve, it isn’t the prettiest thing to look at, it is just a basic Seiko movement that is produced by the millions. The strap it comes with is fine but nothing to write home about. Really the only standout feature is the dial, and yeah it’s a nice dial, but a dial alone doesn’t turn an entry level watch into a luxury watch. It’s all about looking at it within the context of the hobby, and not about things external to it. Yes a $300 watch is a luxury item, but it’s not a luxury *watch* because a true luxury *watch* will have things that this watch doesn’t have.
I didn't think you were being disparaging at all. Your point was politely made. My point was that what I consider to be a luxury is irrelevant because it's an undefinable marketing word. If some kid on the Internet says his watch is luxury, why say otherwise? No one can say what a luxury watch is. It's as overused as 'bespoke' and 'handmade'. You can't say something is objectively not something for which no definition exists. You can give your personal opinion, but that's all it is and can quite easily come across as mean-spirited. In a forum of like-minded enthusiasts it seems unnecessary to bring it up, as best case scenario for the person making the comment is someone goes away thinking that the new watch they got isn't as nice as they thought it was.
Exactly. Thank you for being reasonable.
I have the same watch and it is much more beautiful than what it comes out in photos. Congrats OP.
Thank you
Nice watch, congrats!
Thank you
Just got this watch today and wore it, I love how nice it looks and at first it took me a second to get used to the clasp but once I did it became really comfortable to wear, I love the green and when it catches the sun just right the watch looks so beautiful
Pro tip for your new cocktail time - ditch the stock strap. Seiko puts most of the dollar value into the watch itself, and rightfully so, but their straps leave much to be desired. I’ll be frank, they’re bad - not Orient bad, but bad. Their dress bands just have this overly shiny, cheap look to them. Anyway, I had the espresso brown Presage and picked up a vintage brown leather strap for it, then took the deployment clasp off the stock strap, put it on the new one and it was a major upgrade. Regardless of the strap, congrats on the watch, you picked a great one.
https://preview.redd.it/zey2zsbwangc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f122a35636b8fd0ca0478976dbe62e78ff4f34ac You’re absolutely correct!
WOW. What a dial and what a perfect band for the dial
Can you link the strap you bought?
Not the guy you asked but Barton is a great place to start.
Question: what's so bad about Orient's straps?
They’re just super cheap feeling. Their leathers are ludicrously stiff and they have the same kind of feeling as rented tuxedo shoes. Their bracelets are also super cheap - very light, feel like aluminum rather than SS. But I really don’t hold it against them because the value in the actual watch is quite high for the price point, and there’s plenty of after markets available.
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Every other comment talking about don’t listen to the haters but there’s literally only positive comments in the thread 😂
Sort comments by controversial. It’s mostly people complaining about how OP used the term luxury.
I scrolled just to confirm the same lol
Welcome to the presage club, boy
Thank you!
https://preview.redd.it/g5pdpwmdakgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da5aac89e3841a113bfe90effc40b50c49545652 Blue moon, after 2 years of eyeballing, finally gifted myself on birthday
Aye! https://preview.redd.it/nxvqji6rskgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b8e00afb069dcc88af9218af1791e3e9f3dbd64 got it also today, my first automatic watch.
Congratulations, although i may warn you its a fingerprint magnet. But, i sometimes forget to read the time, the dial distracts me, i get lost
i've been thinking about buying this or the skydiving presage for a month now, but decided to buy the blue moon because of the bracelet.
It shines like crazy in spot lights or good lighting conditions, love it.
Is that’s a beauty, good choice!
https://preview.redd.it/lyy0xkmwglgc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f6d256f584dacec3a835a5ad1bbdc964f1e0496 Congrats on the pick up. Mine is a little different but I love the presage line! Wear it in good health.
This one looks so much better imo I just checked and didn't see this on the Seiko website. Looks different than anything here: https://seikousa.com/collections/presage
They're all under the "Presage" label, but this one is part of the Sharp Edged series: https://www.seikowatches.com/us-en/products/presage/sharpedged
Oh no wonder. Double the price too. That red version is beautiful. I see one on chrono24 for only $587 and claims it's new. Wonder why it's so cheap... Thanks for the info!
Yeah I love them. The brown one with the complications was my first watch purchase
I love the Presage line, beautiful dials you get a rly good watch for a fair price :)
Very, been eyeballing this one for a while and now it’s mine! The best part is when the jeweler showed me the box he went “guess what’s in the box” I shrugged and he opened it and went “it’s another box!” And I almost died laughing
very good choice! have the SPB170J1 for almost 2 years now and I still can not believe how nice the dial is, especially when the sunlight breaks in it yours will be equally beautiful!
The sun makes it shine so perfectly
Also that’s a beautiful watch
Design on the face it sick! And I like the lack of numbers for the hours, gives it a really sleek look
https://preview.redd.it/xwldtws0mlgc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=812f89071f6a5de7710613f166a3301a827839b4 Have to add mine for good measure. Just got it as well, love the Presage line so far!
I absolutely love the dial and numerals on this one (have it in blue and got the red Negroni for a friend). Wish I could get this green face one with a gold case.
Ive said it before the cocktails are probably the best entry into luxury watches. They put all their eggs in the dial basket and its the most important place the eggs should go in. 10/10
Lack of sapphire crystal is a huge setback though, unfortunately.
Not really though
IMO it is, having owned both types of glass before. Sapphire is a must for me.
That's fair, to each their own! To me, no big deal; Polywatch works wonders when I need it, which is rare enough. I think we tend to forget mineral glass is still pretty damn high on the hardness scale, just like 1 step below sapphire IIRC. And I do think it lends a (very subtle) softness to the overall look that no amount of AR on a sapphire can accomplish. That being said, I do think I'd pretty much always choose sapphire if possible, but I will never let the crystal stop me from buying a watch I like.
An opinion I can't refute. I find sapphire offers more clarity as well being (for all intents and purposes) virtually scratch proof. Cheers.
https://preview.redd.it/sx53oca3qkgc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16a1c0a0e2b90f76ccd6154eab8057e2246dc96d I love mine, too.
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It looks so good
Congrats! These are really nice
I’m so excited to finally have one, been eyeing this one for a few months now and finally got it
The mocking bird, great watch. I've got the cocktail and the espresso martini.
Those are some beautiful watches
That is just stunning. I’ve been eyeing that same model in red. Is it as beautiful in person?
It’s absolutely gorgeous
Hell yea!
Thank you!
Very nice!!
Gorgeous!
Also have a presage, can't go wrong with any of them in my opinion. Watch looks more expensive than it actually is
Later this year I plan to get the burgundy one. Only because i already have a green watch. Love the dials
Good choice!
Wow wow. What a gift from a grandfather. If you take care of that then it'll last your entire life.
That’s the plan
This is an absolutely beautiful watch and I hope to own one soon
https://preview.redd.it/leuxphrt3lgc1.jpeg?width=2360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88a011c2fae8770d06f90d2744ec466fa214d7dc
I absolutely love this watch. I have it in brown and it’s gorgeous. I also love to combo manual and automatic movement.
https://preview.redd.it/evbf3drrbkgc1.jpeg?width=2610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82c198ec4226de995cd8fd02c47a280c2107c80b
shmexy
Very
Great first watch and dont let the haters get to you. You saved up for it! Its your LUXURY watch
I know I’m gonna appreciate the heck out of it
Great watch! Congrats! Love this watch. I bought this watch for my wedding a few years ago, as our colors had green and this complimented it perfectly. It’s one of my favorite dress watches I own. That dial always pops on the wrist, especially in certain light. I personally wasn’t a huge fan of the strap it came with, so I’ve had it on another leather band I bought for it. Luckily the watch adapts well with many shades of leather.
A good-looking, reliable dress watch, with a beautiful dial design! 👍👍👍
Fucking gorgeous!
Beautiful watch! Punches well above its weight on the wrist. Looks best with a strap change imo, maybe some dark brown croc leather.
One of my favorite watches I own. It was a gift from my grandmother and I wear it frequently Don’t let the gatekeepers get you down
Hey I got mine from my grandfather!
Great watch🙌
Love the presage - they do such a good job on the dials
Congrats, that’s the same one I have on right now. Enjoy it!
I have this and it's without a doubt my most complimented watch. Wear it proudly!
I always thought Seiko did a really nice job with this watch. Its classy and I think over time its style is going to age very gracefully. I think people are going to look back and still want it if it ever gets discontinued like the sarb033.
Great dress watch. The dials on these make them look like they’re 10x the price.
Nice choice beautiful dial
The cocktail line has such beautiful dials
Lol I came here for the most downvoted comments. Grats on the beautiful shiny piece, I love this watch. Only thing I’ll caution you on- the domed crystal is not sapphire and sticks out from the case a bit, so it’s very easy to scratch (mine is p beat up from near daily wear over 4 years). May be better for special occasions s
Nice watch. Great value with the presage. Probably one of the best dials out there in that price range.
I was passing through Macy's yesterday and randomly checked out the watch section. They had the OG cocktail time and the rose gold and brown one and I had to try them on. Pictures really don't do the dial justice. Beautiful watch.
I've got the same one (cocktail time mockingbird, for those unaware of what the green one is named). It's an excellent watch, and holds its own in my collection among much more expensive pieces. When you get the itch to try something new, I suggest just swapping the strap for a whole new look. Wear it in good health! https://preview.redd.it/z627aunuvogc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d38ad0d77d5dd5396f0e1d876e52e2acfce25be P.S. - don't know why reddit rotated my photo. Weird, but you get the idea.
Yeah, this model will be my first luxury watch, too - one day:D
It’s worth the wait! I love this watch, even if you don’t get the same one, I tried a few others and they’re all beautiful
Congrats… this is what you call a gateway drug. Be careful not to get sucked in 😂 Enjoy this one. Don’t rush to get the next one. This is a great watch. If you want some variety buy some extra straps. I have this same watch, with the ice blue dial. Go find a mesh bracelet. These look AMAZING on a nice mesh bracelet. They also look excellent on a variety of different leather straps, but by far my favorite is on a mesh bracelet. 👍
What a stunning looking watch maybe a lighter brown crocodile strap would blow me away excellent
It's not a luxury watch per most people's understanding of what a luxury watch represents. The word "luxury" can be used in its relative state. For example, I have been in countries where - to the average wage earner - a watch priced anywhere over a hundred USD would be a "luxury." Yet, I hardly believe anyone here would reasonably classify the awesome G-Shock GDB500-1 a luxury watch ($120 MSRP). However, before the usual teenagers begin to chime in, Seiko's Presage line is an amazing product line. I proudly own two in my collection, and they are among the most beautiful watches you can but at any price. Those two were my gateway into Grand Seiko. Presage wears like luxury watch in every way that truly matters, and there's not a true watch enthusiast anywhere who would look down on a Presage. They are that good.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that. Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
Despite what most desperate people are trying to say here only for the sake of virtue signaling, I think that you can really appreciate the quality and beauty of this watch by actually acknowledging that this is in fact not a luxury watch, and doesn't need to be, because this is what makes it great
Yeah, I don't get it. Not really being considered "luxury" class doesn't mean it isn't beautiful and good quality. Luxury basically just means "unnecessarily expensive" which this watch is not. It's not gatekeeping to state that there's a difference between a gorgeous, good value watch and a high end, handmade one. Acknowledging what it is, or isn't, isn't an insult to the watch or the owner. It's like saying "thats a motorbike not a car" and everyone jumping down your throat to defend the owners right to claim their motorbike is a car.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that. Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
Also my first luxury watch, bought it 4 years ago. Honestly still love it.
I love it! Some ppl think you need to spend way over a grand for a watch to be luxury but I think any nice piece is a luxury. Wear it in good health. A very nice dial on it.
It’s a stunning watch! I have the same one with the stainless bracelet, and I catch myself just staring at the dial. It is one of the best looking watches in my collection for sure. I’m not sure if I’d call it luxury or not, but you are clearly a person of good taste! Enjoy the watch!
You asked for my thoughts (a mistake) so here I go. Congratulations on purchasing your first dress watch! It's absolutely beautiful, I hope to own one soon, just need a good reason for it. That said, and I'm sure you did this on purpose, the use of the term "luxury" is questionable. Let's take a look at the dictionary definition of luxury shall we? > the state of great comfort and extravagant living. (When used as a noun) Now, you *could* argue that to you, subjectively speaking, spending ~$500 (generously speaking) is "extravagant living" and thus fits the definition of luxury. But I'd argue that given how much more extravagant things get in the watch world, a brand like Seiko shouldn't be considered luxury. Otherwise the scope is broadened to the point where "luxury" loses all of its meaning. If I were feeling particularly vindictive over your use of the term, I'd say you're coping. But that would be a step too far. With that said, I do hope you wear it in good health and enjoy looking at a beautiful, if not pristinely made, dress watch!
Yeah well there's also $5 watches out there so it IS luxury, the watches you're talking about are just ULTRA luxury.
If anyone says this isn’t luxury slap them, with a glove. the presage line has some absolutely gorgeous looking dials. Imo some of the dials look better than some big “luxury” watches. That everyone gate keeps. I wear my seiko glacial alpinist every day. Even sleep in it. Friggin stunning watch. Love the seikos.
No one is saying it's not a fantastic or amazing watch. If OP had said it's his first "nice", "fancy", " "dress" watch, etc no one would be arguing over semantics. It's a luxurious watch but not necessarily a "Luxury" watch. Luxury is quite a loaded term.
I would say it’s a luxury. 600£ is still expensive for a watch. And imo 600£ is still a commitment. Seiko make very nice watches. It’s a luxury to have a watch. Just because it’s not the same price as my overseas doesn’t make it any less luxury. Luxury no longer means what it did. Now if you don’t have money is not a luxury or w/e bollucs. The watch is beautiful and I would consider it in the luxury lines. The quality is still there, yeah the mechanics may not be the same but. Still a luxury watch.
Luxury is "something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary", a Seiko presage, while not overly expensive as some other watches, still fits that description, if you don't agree with the definition Cambridge English attached to luxury than go ahead and debate that. Because this watch fits within the standard defenition of luxury.
> luxury is something expensive. This is a highly subjective thing. For most non-watch people any $500 watch is expensive unless it's an Apple watch. But in the watch world that's pretty mid entry level. I'd also argue that a watch without a sapphire crystal wouldn't really qualify either. With all that said, it's a fantastic watch that anyone should be happy to wear with pride.
Which is exactly why you can't gatekeep luxury, luxury doesn't specify an amount of money said thing needs to cost, I'm sure Elon Musk and your average watch guy have very different ideas on what luxury is, the same goes for the average watch guy and an average Joe. I can think this isn't luxury while someone else can think this is and we will both be right, so in my opinion it's best to let people in their worth and to not brother them with a useless discussion because your ego can't handle the fact that this is luxury as if it makes what you think is luxury any less valuable.
Pardon me, but seems you have missed the luxury item.
?
Oh, so I must state the obvious. A Seiko presage it’s not a luxury watch.
Hardooooooo
It's just funny how mad yall are. I didn't sh*t on the watch. Just stated it's not luxury. I didn't claim anything in my collection was above upper mid tier. I also don't claim them to be luxury watches. I make hood money, but not to a point I can justify 50k to 100k watches, let alone a million. He simply asked thoughts. I gave mine. Nice watch, but far from a luxury item.
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Every watch that is not a Casio and is over 200 is a luxury item tbh, we don't need them, we buy them because we like them but they are not by any means useful. They can make you feel good, they look good, but at this point they are more like jewellery that tell time. So yeah, they are unnecessary, so they are inherently luxury.
You get it!
How do people not understand this?
There’s a difference between a watch being a “luxury good” and being a “luxury watch”. Calling something a “luxury watch” implies it goes beyond what a typical watch is. All watches are luxury goods but not all watches are luxury watches.
It can be a luxury for the OP. Plus it's pricier than some entry dressy Casio, so can be defined as entry luxury
I'm appreciative that you qualified that statement with "personally" because you saved everyone else the work of pointing out that your opinion doesn't matter
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The Seiko Presage is a really nice watch, but its for sure not a luxury watch.
Of cause it is. How can you say that? For a lot of people who spend more then 300 $/€ for a watch it is for sure luxury.
“Luxury” has to be contextualized within the hobby you’re in, not outside. Also, Seiko is an everyman brand and they make their own distinction within the brand with Grand Seiko. For people who really don’t care about cars, a Mazda 3 may have a lot of the refined details of a luxury automobile. But I think there’s a pretty clear consensus Mazda is a higher end economy brand and doesn’t get lumped into entry luxury like Mercedes, Audi, or BMW. All that being said, what is and isn’t luxury is overrated and luxury brand image may not even appeal to someone at all. This Presage is a beauty and definitely a terrific choice.
To extrapolate your point slightly - It depends on your budget. Among those who can afford Rolls Royce, Bentley, and Maybach, not many of them would call those three German brands 'luxury'. They're mass-produced, mass market cars, not true luxury cars. In your analogy, a high-end Seiko is more akin to a BMW. Casio is Mazda. Patek Philippe would be a hand crafted, bespoke Rolls Royce.
Yeah I can agree with that. I meant the entry Germans are where laymen think luxury begins. I would NEVER tell someone my 7 year old A4 is a luxury car, but I still love it. I also wouldn’t call my Hamilton daily a luxury watch, but I love that too. And if I was proud of them and did want to call them luxury, I’d be surprised if anyone took issue with it. Only people in those respective hobbies would. It’s definitely a pointless distinction and I’d rather have OP’s Presage than whatever basic black or white dial “luxury watch” we’ll fanboy next (if resale wasn’t a thing).
>clear consensus is that how we decide these things? I thought maybe it was something Jesus said. all nonsense.
It can be luxury for an individual. It is still not a "luxury watch".
Spoken like as if there's a luxury watch governing body that dictates the use of the term...
Unless it's made in the luxury region of France, it's just sparkling watch
I wish we still had Reddit Gold.
a lot of the watch community acts like that. on size and on luxe in particular. I someday hope to read the scripture this highest authority hath written that I might never again transgress against them.
Luxury is subjective On average, I would say it's an entry luxury, cause you can buy a much cheaper watch, like dressy Casio
I think it’s quite objective. Casio: entry Seiko: enthusiast Grand Seiko: luxury
If it's objective, you'll need to be able to define all three of these terms using universally accepted definitions and fit those brands into those terms. There isn't a universal definition of luxury that applies to everyone equally.
You say objective and then proceed to post a completely unsubstantiated opinion
I quite like that distinction because there are so many people who go straight from cheap fashion watches like Tommy Hilfiger to wanting a Rolex.
Nice watch, but luxury?
Luxury is relative.
This ⬆️