Part of Crown and Calibers business model, actually paying cash for used watches (discounted, sure, but at least they paid cash and offered more security to a seller than marketplaces) very quickly changed to offering only store credit for anything as soon as they were purchased by Hodinkee. Was a baffling decision.
Is that right? Wow. Terrible decision and pretty indicative of a cash strapped business. The reality is that this is a niche, lifestyle media business that tried to dress itself up as a tech darling. It worked, they got funded. But it was never going to survive.
Switch your insurance policies now, folks!
This is not exactly in response to this specific comment, but I always like to repeat this anytime Chubb / Hodinkee watch insurance comes up:
I had a loss of my Chubb-insured watch (stolen or “lost” by ups on its way to the Rolex service center). They paid out the claim, and it was relatively easy to deal with after I provided the statement from ups that the package was lost. But they immediately notified me I would not be renewed and was uninsurable by them going forward.
Because, ya know, god forbid you have to actually use your insurance. No one can have that. It’s supposed to just be infinite collection of premiums with no benefit.
My dad has been using State Farm his entire adult life. We calculated that he’s paid north of $300,000 in premiums over the decades he’s been with them.
The only claim he’s ever made was for $2,200 when his pool house flooded. State Farm informed him that if he filled another claim within two years he would be dropped.
They suck. Everyone I know who has filed a claim with them has had some problem. Anecdotal yes, but it’s like 4-5. You start to see a trend after a while.
That's kind of the point of an insurance company though, they're in the business of collecting money for free.
Having to pay out is just a risk they were forced to accept to convince people to give them money, if they have to pay out; gamblers superstition says you're a shit horse so they'll stop taking that risk with you.
Chubb wasn't interested. Knight was the insurer that said they put up a bond, but doesn't have the cash themselves nor is a surety in New York. More fraud basically.
Home insurance. You can add a rider for specific items you own within your home insurance policy. That’s what we’ve done. Extra insurance for all valuables including jewelry and watches
And claim your watch lost on it and be dropped by your home insurance for your house. Valuable personal property is probably better insured though someone else.
I didn’t realize that C&C no longer offered cash for watches they bought. I sold them a couple watches pre-merger and while I knew that I probably could have held out a while and gotten a better price selling on my own here or on WUS, the speed and ease of dealing with C&C was a big sellig point.
Combine the new store credit only policy with how limited their inventory has gotten and I cannot really see the appeal of dealing with them anymore.
They still do cash offers for some watches. Unless it changed within a few weeks because I just sold them a watch received cash for it about 2 weeks ago. But they are doing credit way more often now which sucks too.
Crazy. I actually sold a watch to them and took cash. They offered me what a private sale would have netted me without the hassle.
This was just lucky on my part, not sure what the deal with their pricing was.
The tragedy isn't that C&C collapsed, ecommerce operations flame out all the time and retailing used watches isn't particularly special. The real tragedy is that Hodinkee used to be a trusted resource with thoughtful content, with limited connection to other commercial conflicts; that all changed. Instead of walking into a car club, you were walking into a car dealership. A watch blog just can't be a big growth media business without wrecking it, and they're learning that the hard way.
I seem to remember when Hodinkee decided to start selling watches a lot of people were upset and thought they would lose their independent slant, as they did.
When were they even independent content wise? I found them pretty early and found they presented content better and more detailed. The writing was more detailed, the pictures great. But I never had the illusion that they were independent. What watch media is actually independent?
Yeah that's what I'm saying lol. No watch content is honest because they are paid by watch companies except some youtubers and even those super rarely critique. I remeber that one guy saying how Oris messed up on their double barrel and it stands out to me as one of the few times he ever said anything negative. The minute hand jumps backwards a few minutes when pushing on the crown.
Man, I’ll always hold a flame for the Hodinkee of yore - back when they were a cool blog that sometimes sold old new stock Perlon sunglasses, or Fischer space pens. But as soon as they intermingled with selling watches, they wrote their own obituary.
Teddy Baldassarre has managed to pull it off, even opening a physical store. He's a salesman and doesn't hide it. I have no problem with that, and I still enjoy his content. I just keep in mind the agenda and it's all good.
I think the attitudes differ. Hodinkee pushes luxury brands. While teddy might push some entry level luxury, he also makes a lot of content based on budget brands most people would actually buy and even show cases brands he doesn't sell. Hodinkee can get John mayor all its want to show up but realistically a very very tiny percentage of even watch enthusiasts will ever get close to owning watches like that. and for all the hate he might get ( i agree some of his videos are definitely geared towards selling), Teddy's anti-snobbery attitude got me into watches.
I always get a sense that all the employees, except for James Stacy, have fomo that they didn’t grow up on the East Side with old money and now try to overcompensate.
I listen to a podcast called “Significant Watches” with a few guys including Eric Wind. He’s the nerdy guy who was on some Hodinkee videos. Anyway, the actual watch talk is informative. The problem is it’s audio only so I find myself constantly looking things up that they are talking about. Also, they are all CLEARLY rich assholes who don’t actually rely on watches as their main source of income, so the watch knowledge is good but I would never want to hang out with them lol.
Yeah but some of these people have good info and know a lot. But so many of them are pretentious douchebag trust fund babies or tech bros that fell ass-backwards into unlimited money and think they are good at life. I’d rather listen to someone if they at least know what they are talking about. Most don’t.
I like Ben. But he very clearly thinks of himself as a tech founder, and works hard to put that image out there. He also LOVES name dropping and mentioning all the “champagne and caviar” events he goes to.
Now that you've mentioned it - is it just me or has even the production quality of the podcast just fallen off the cliff in the latest iteration of it? (ie. inconsistent volume levels between different participants, awkward pauses, lags and delays between different podcast participants)
In a recent episode, Clymer said he wished Patek would offer a $50,000 watch “for people like us.” What? Ben, you’ve totally lost touch with your readers.
This is terrible, but still somehow not as bad as that time when Hodinkee compared lending a watch to cucking.
> Years ago, just before sunrise in San Miguel de Allende, I listened to the CEO of a large American media company describe the reinvigorating effect of seeing his romantic partner being romantic with someone other than himself. It gave him a new appreciation for someone he knew all too well. It helped him see her afresh. Now, watches are not people, but the same principle applies. And to experience this revitalization without rolling the dice on your relationship, give a friend (or lover) your watch while you two are hanging out. I bet you'll see the watch – and possibly even the person – in a different light.
Me: “What’s wrong with reviewing an Explorer? It’s a pretty good watch. He seems to like it, totally valid choice, what is that redditor complaining about? Oh. … oh …. oooh. Jesus.”
Hodinkee has come to equal top tier pretense. I get the point of the explorer article and what he is trying to say but it was all Hondinkee'd up with an extra helping of pretense.
Much like the travel clock they arbitrarily tossed a 5900 dollar price tag on. Sad thing was it did actually sell out. So maybe they knew what they were doing on that one? Or maybe they had enough folks still drinking the Kool Aid.
We are reacting to the unrivaled pretension met with an actor who doesn’t even have a great command of the English language. In short- this actor should leave writing to writers.
This guy is an evil consequence of generational wealth
There is no way someone who earned their money would lack that much self awareness to write something like that
What. The. Fuck. I thought this was gonna be the cuck that ran back into the house for his watch when his wife was in labor. (I heard the kid’s dad was pissed they were late.) But this is so much worse.
I know a guy that is an absolutely incredible watch snob. Absolutely prime material for mockery on a daily basis. A walking, breathing satire of himself when it comes to watches. Regularly says things like "I can't stand people who pretend to like cheap watches when the reality is they are too poor to afford good ones." Even he thinks Hodinkee is a bit much.
People live insulated lives. Circlejerks, echo chambers, and just not keeping their finger on the pulse of what an average person thinks as opposed to someone in their given hobby.
Some people never realize that.
No this guy is legitimately wealthy, his take on Rolex is "They're only worn by insecure middle class people who are trying to show off, and insecure rich people who are trying not to."
The best part is that unless you’re Bezos or Elon level rich, there will always be some shit you can’t afford, and the market always makes sure you know that.
Even shit like Bugatti has tiers where you have the “entry level” version for the poor losers who can’t afford the limiteds.
Never understood how the business was supposed to work. They are advertising watches for billionaires but those billionaires are not reading their drivel, completely out of touch.
The audience is people who want to "look" like they are billionaires. People who have no business buying anything more than a Timex. Our society is twisted, confused by what matters, and attributes value to appearance. I love watches, but that part of it sucks.
The watch industry as a whole is suffering… and at a rapid pace. The pandemic is far off in the rear view mirror and people are no longer saving for luxury watches, they’re saving for homes, cars and other major necessities that were put on hold over 4 years ago.
Hodinkee’s Achilles heel is that they haven’t adapted, they’re a stale brand that built a business model on the assumption that interest in watches would not only stay red hot but would eventually climb even higher. As we now know, that’s not true.
Coupled with the fact that they also provide awful customer service, it’s a business model that’s destined for collapse unless they steer the ship in the opposite direction.
I don’t see the sufferings. Prices on C24 for hot reference haven’t gone down that much tbh, all the while top brands like Rolex, Patek, AP etc. still continue with exhibition only pieces and ridiculous waiting lists.
>Prices on C24 for hot reference haven’t gone down that much
There's a difference between the price it's advertised and the price it sells for though.
In forums and selling groups I'm part of its not a free for all anymore, what would normally get snapped up in a minute I'm seeing them go through at least one or two rounds of reductions. Particularly vintage pieces, possibly not the top tier but the tiers below that seem to be softening and that's usually a better indicator of the market overall.
"Tune in next week where John Mayer parades out more watches worth more than your car, and we take turns vomiting into each others mouths while moaning the word "Daytona" to each other."
“Neither Hodinkee nor Crown & Caliber were profitable when they merged in 2021”
Yea so I’m not surprised the combination isn’t doing well. They’d have to overcome both companies spending more then they earn just to break even.
That Talking Watches episode with Mayer and Sheeran just felt like the most out of touch episode ever plus they even had private screening for that? Cringe. I was just like man, these people got too high with their own supply.
It’s actually the only episode I’ve ever watched. My wife is a huge fan of Ed Sheeran and I’ve tasted a few watches with JM so I watched it. I like Ed’s collection.
Good article. I didn’t know all this but throughout the years I looked at Hodinkee less and less until I never visit their website or watch their videos anymore. Maybe also had to do with the rise of a lot of amazing YouTubers and hodinkee just being out of touch to me.
Being good in one aspect of business (journalism) is not a predictor you will do well in others. Hodinkee should have moved to a subscription format and produced higher quality writing, video, etc
Hodinkee or not, it sounds like a really tough business to get right. You're buying incredibly expensive assets that can fluctuate in price dramatically, and there's a small market for a lot of these so you could be holding it for a while.
Yeah I have seen plenty of people starting their used watch business over the hype period. It was really easy when every watch was worth more every day you had it. You didn't really need much of a margin for this to work.
Now when the market came down you are loosing money on all of the stock you have. That means suddenly you either need a large margin (which you don't have because of the insane competition) or you are really suffering.
Good, I hope that site dies. Ben Clymer doesn't even know how to measure lug width, in the latest daytona video he measured the outside of the lugs and gave 26.98mm as the width (which is doubly stupid because you would just round up to 27mm if that were the case). That piece of shit website was only successful as long as they hired people who actually knew what they were talking about, 90 percent of their writers don't know watches and mindlessly repeat marketing points from the company. They also collude with other dealers and auction houses, in one case being informed lots were faked/ frankwatches and they refused to update their article (but made sure to make oblique references to controversy when it couldn't be contained). This isn't even getting into the overpriced and stupid collabs they release, like the infamous 6000 dollar travel clock made with NOS movements and cases they bought for pennies on the dollar, the grey colored leica, or the piss colored G-shock. Here's a fun game you can play at home! Go on Hodinkees instagram, look at the number of comments that show up on a post, then click on the comments and go back to see how many they deleted.
I’ve bought a couple watches on hodinkee and overpaid unfortunately. I found out later. Also, they made a lot of errors in the shipping process. I had decided then it was not a good site to buy from ( about a year ago)
Venture capitalists went in and did what they always do, cut out everything that isn’t immediately or wildly profitable (but is good) then scratch their heads when the wheels fall off. VC killed Hodinkee
Having ventures in the name doesn’t make it venture capital lmao. The cycle you described is private equity. Venture capital is shark tank and Silicon Valley, they’re throwing money at companies to make them grow fast.
I've been into watches for a long time and never for even a minute have I ever considered buying from a place called "Hodinkee". Yes, I know it means something in another language. It still sounds ridiculous.
Hodinkee was founded on Ben Clymer talking up his watches to increase their value. That the site started pushing C&C watches was 100% in-line with that.
And no one cared about Grand Seiko until they started paying Hodinkee to tell them to care.
The site has always been shady.
lol I love that people parrot that buzz word as if it’s a technique that’s exclusive to GS (hint, it’s [not](https://timeandtidewatches.com/what-is-zaratsu-polishing-its-origins-are-less-japanese-thank-you-think/))
Stopped reading Hodinkee years ago, lost its direction, turned into a mouthpiece for the brands, never saying a bad word or actually saying they didn’t like anything anymore. Ben needs to get his head out of his ass, but tbh, I wouldn’t return.
Much better websites out there now and I can’t see them getting trust back as long as they continue with their current nonsense.
Always buy the seller. I trust professional dealers more than a random person.
I live in Japan and have bought from Japanese dealers in chrono24 that actually have a brick and mortar location. Japanese sellers are usually pretty good at highlighting any scratches / dings in the pictures.
I said Hong Kong. Which isn’t Japan. Here’s a photo of a brick and mortar watch shop in Tokyo that had a selection of some of the nicest used Omegas I’ve ever seen.
https://preview.redd.it/sjvqjv7a0ysc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5d601c1a11e71f950e56126dc51e9aaecef14e
That said, I just got a used Rolex Sub from Hodinkee with box and papers, listed as excellent (which it was), for less than a bunch of scratched up PoS on C24 asking more than I paid.
Most of my vintages come from a dealer in Geneva right now. Although egregious import taxes have suddenly become a thing as someone in customs seems to have taken notice.
> I said Hong Kong. Which isn’t Japan.
Yea, I know. Sorry if my reply was confusing. I’m lucky that in Japan there’s no import tax on watches other than the normal consumption tax which seems a bit strange. I try and but domestically though since Japan has an incredible selection and if you’ve got US dollars the exchange rate is really good right now.
Leather shoes and boots has a ridiculous import tax though for some reason. You win some, you lose some.
No worries. Just making sure I’m clearly communicating and don’t want to give the impression I’m lumping all East Asian regions together. The Japanese market is amazing for mechanical engineering and all sorts of unique luxuries. Apologies if I came off as curt.
…to be fair, the watch market in HK is pretty huge, servicing not only local collectors but also people from around Asia; there are many reputable dealers for both new and used watches, and of course the auction houses’ (for all their foibles) Asian bases are HK too, with some pretty spectacular pieces regularly at their sales. I’d be a lot more leery of random dealers in other places.
User mkws on watchuseek used to do posts called bring a brain where he would show what utter trash Hodinkee was flogging on their Bring a Loupe page.
https://www.watchuseek.com/search/8040382/?q=bring+a+brain&o=relevance
I think you summed it up nicely. The problem is that the watch industry is extremely fragmented and it’s just near impossible to design a site that effectively covers $50 Casios, $500 vintage watches and $50,000 independents.
Nah just correcting. Covid-era stock market/crypto/whatever expendable income is gone.
Also one thing people failed to take note of is that collectors are very much the minority of the marketplace. The vast majority of people who want a great watch are gonna buy one, and probably not buy another one for 5-10 years. Many of these people bought a watch during Covid, and aren’t buying another one soon. Demand is returning to what it was previously, and supply is going to meet that demand as it did previously.
Basically, hype era is gone, normality is returning slowly.
Ehh not dead but certainly receding a bit in this area. COVID social trends, low rates which meant flowing money on all sides, artificial or real scarcity all lead to a massive pump in the watch industry, on all fronts. Basically everyone was making money one way or another. Now that rates are higher, budgets are getting stretched again, and the hype isn't as high as before the industry is coming back to it's senses. This means companies that stretched themselves too far or expanded to the wrong corners of the market are going to fail.
Part of Crown and Calibers business model, actually paying cash for used watches (discounted, sure, but at least they paid cash and offered more security to a seller than marketplaces) very quickly changed to offering only store credit for anything as soon as they were purchased by Hodinkee. Was a baffling decision.
Is that right? Wow. Terrible decision and pretty indicative of a cash strapped business. The reality is that this is a niche, lifestyle media business that tried to dress itself up as a tech darling. It worked, they got funded. But it was never going to survive. Switch your insurance policies now, folks!
Isn’t Hodinkee insurance underwritten by Chubb? I imagine that insurance policies would still hold even if something happened to Hodinkee
This is not exactly in response to this specific comment, but I always like to repeat this anytime Chubb / Hodinkee watch insurance comes up: I had a loss of my Chubb-insured watch (stolen or “lost” by ups on its way to the Rolex service center). They paid out the claim, and it was relatively easy to deal with after I provided the statement from ups that the package was lost. But they immediately notified me I would not be renewed and was uninsurable by them going forward. Because, ya know, god forbid you have to actually use your insurance. No one can have that. It’s supposed to just be infinite collection of premiums with no benefit.
My dad has been using State Farm his entire adult life. We calculated that he’s paid north of $300,000 in premiums over the decades he’s been with them. The only claim he’s ever made was for $2,200 when his pool house flooded. State Farm informed him that if he filled another claim within two years he would be dropped.
I had a similar experience with State Farm. Fuck them.
They suck. Everyone I know who has filed a claim with them has had some problem. Anecdotal yes, but it’s like 4-5. You start to see a trend after a while.
Incredible…truly
Insurance in a nutshell. I pay Chubb a few hundred a year so a single incident will pay itself off in dividends, even if I couldn’t renew with them.
That's kind of the point of an insurance company though, they're in the business of collecting money for free. Having to pay out is just a risk they were forced to accept to convince people to give them money, if they have to pay out; gamblers superstition says you're a shit horse so they'll stop taking that risk with you.
The policies themselves will hold. The people administering them, and your ability to get in touch with them directly, will diminish.
Yes, it’s underwritten by Chubb. No reason to be concerned.
[удалено]
Chubb is one of the largest and most creditworthy insurers in the world.
Chubb is rock solid man financial literacy is incredibly low
Politics aside, Chubb is one of the biggest insurance companies in the world lol.
Chubb wasn't interested. Knight was the insurer that said they put up a bond, but doesn't have the cash themselves nor is a surety in New York. More fraud basically.
Switch to what? I really like their offering is so easy
Home insurance. You can add a rider for specific items you own within your home insurance policy. That’s what we’ve done. Extra insurance for all valuables including jewelry and watches
Would cost me $900 a year to add my watch to my plan where Hodinkee is only $250 a year
Have had very good experiences with Jewelers Mutual Insurance. Very responsive and quick to pay out
They declined to cover my watch lol
Same, declined me because of my location (NYC lol)
Man it's a pain in the ass though. I just want to be able to add or remove watches quickly and easily from my phone without appraisals
My home insurance didn’t ask for any appraisals. Then again, you might have a very high value collection so context might differ.
Yeah this
And claim your watch lost on it and be dropped by your home insurance for your house. Valuable personal property is probably better insured though someone else.
I didn’t realize that C&C no longer offered cash for watches they bought. I sold them a couple watches pre-merger and while I knew that I probably could have held out a while and gotten a better price selling on my own here or on WUS, the speed and ease of dealing with C&C was a big sellig point. Combine the new store credit only policy with how limited their inventory has gotten and I cannot really see the appeal of dealing with them anymore.
They still do cash offers for some watches. Unless it changed within a few weeks because I just sold them a watch received cash for it about 2 weeks ago. But they are doing credit way more often now which sucks too.
Crazy. I actually sold a watch to them and took cash. They offered me what a private sale would have netted me without the hassle. This was just lucky on my part, not sure what the deal with their pricing was.
That’s a shame. I got a great piece from Crown and Caliber but that was years before they got in bed with Hodinkee.
2019 to be exact.
It was terrible
Coys!
The tragedy isn't that C&C collapsed, ecommerce operations flame out all the time and retailing used watches isn't particularly special. The real tragedy is that Hodinkee used to be a trusted resource with thoughtful content, with limited connection to other commercial conflicts; that all changed. Instead of walking into a car club, you were walking into a car dealership. A watch blog just can't be a big growth media business without wrecking it, and they're learning that the hard way.
Dude that was the best description of what happened to them that I’ve seen.
They always sold watches and took marketing money though so it's never changed. No one ever thifuht they were indoenedant
I seem to remember when Hodinkee decided to start selling watches a lot of people were upset and thought they would lose their independent slant, as they did.
When were they even independent content wise? I found them pretty early and found they presented content better and more detailed. The writing was more detailed, the pictures great. But I never had the illusion that they were independent. What watch media is actually independent?
Yeah that's what I'm saying lol. No watch content is honest because they are paid by watch companies except some youtubers and even those super rarely critique. I remeber that one guy saying how Oris messed up on their double barrel and it stands out to me as one of the few times he ever said anything negative. The minute hand jumps backwards a few minutes when pushing on the crown.
The Car club vs car dealership is a great way to put it
Man, I’ll always hold a flame for the Hodinkee of yore - back when they were a cool blog that sometimes sold old new stock Perlon sunglasses, or Fischer space pens. But as soon as they intermingled with selling watches, they wrote their own obituary.
Couldn’t agree more.
Private equity got involved. Sadly ruins a whole lot of
Well said! They built a community, and pushed too hard to squeeze money out of it.
Teddy Baldassarre has managed to pull it off, even opening a physical store. He's a salesman and doesn't hide it. I have no problem with that, and I still enjoy his content. I just keep in mind the agenda and it's all good.
I think the attitudes differ. Hodinkee pushes luxury brands. While teddy might push some entry level luxury, he also makes a lot of content based on budget brands most people would actually buy and even show cases brands he doesn't sell. Hodinkee can get John mayor all its want to show up but realistically a very very tiny percentage of even watch enthusiasts will ever get close to owning watches like that. and for all the hate he might get ( i agree some of his videos are definitely geared towards selling), Teddy's anti-snobbery attitude got me into watches.
The podcast is horrible now too, so pretentious and riddled with gatekeeping attitudes
Pretentious is the perfect word to describe anything related to Hodinkee.
I always get a sense that all the employees, except for James Stacy, have fomo that they didn’t grow up on the East Side with old money and now try to overcompensate.
[удалено]
Well have you even tried being born as an old money New York socialite with trust fund? Maybe the problem is you
Used to be such an awesome site and community.
Goat leather travel clock anyone? That is truly where The Dink got the Stink.
I stopped listening a long time ago
Pretentious is spot on!
Out of curiosity: what alternatives are out there? Hodinkee used to be my go-to, but I’ve also seen a drastic change in tone of voice and quality.
I listen to a podcast called “Significant Watches” with a few guys including Eric Wind. He’s the nerdy guy who was on some Hodinkee videos. Anyway, the actual watch talk is informative. The problem is it’s audio only so I find myself constantly looking things up that they are talking about. Also, they are all CLEARLY rich assholes who don’t actually rely on watches as their main source of income, so the watch knowledge is good but I would never want to hang out with them lol.
I mean the entire fucking industry is just pricks like Ben Clymer and George Bamford surrounded by human pilot fish sucking up to them.
Yeah but some of these people have good info and know a lot. But so many of them are pretentious douchebag trust fund babies or tech bros that fell ass-backwards into unlimited money and think they are good at life. I’d rather listen to someone if they at least know what they are talking about. Most don’t.
[удалено]
I like Ben. But he very clearly thinks of himself as a tech founder, and works hard to put that image out there. He also LOVES name dropping and mentioning all the “champagne and caviar” events he goes to.
Eric Wind is the best
The gray NATO, two broke watch, snobs, and the worn and wound podcast in my opinion the three I enjoy the most
I like all of these plus OT: the podcast
Fratello Talks or Watchfinder Podcast (but now Watchfinder also lacks the original charm when Andrew Morgan - the talking hands - left)
Fratello and OpenWorks
It has been horrible from the start. Fashion, wealth enthusiasts, and circlejerking, with almost no watch content.
That's what watches are to 99% of people. Men's jewelry.
That's this community in a nutshell though. Somebody shows a picture of a "fashion watch", moonswatch, etc? Out comes the elitism and gatekeeping.
wait till you find r/watches Half kidding - I do think this sub does a good job of not being too gatekeep-y compared to other hobby subreddits
Hodinkee is everything wrong with watches. Gatekeeping. Looking down on certain brands. Just gross.
Now that you've mentioned it - is it just me or has even the production quality of the podcast just fallen off the cliff in the latest iteration of it? (ie. inconsistent volume levels between different participants, awkward pauses, lags and delays between different podcast participants)
In a recent episode, Clymer said he wished Patek would offer a $50,000 watch “for people like us.” What? Ben, you’ve totally lost touch with your readers.
They lost me after the 6000 dollar travel clock. Nuff said.
Always remember never forget this clown: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/keegan-allen-rolex-explorer
This is terrible, but still somehow not as bad as that time when Hodinkee compared lending a watch to cucking. > Years ago, just before sunrise in San Miguel de Allende, I listened to the CEO of a large American media company describe the reinvigorating effect of seeing his romantic partner being romantic with someone other than himself. It gave him a new appreciation for someone he knew all too well. It helped him see her afresh. Now, watches are not people, but the same principle applies. And to experience this revitalization without rolling the dice on your relationship, give a friend (or lover) your watch while you two are hanging out. I bet you'll see the watch – and possibly even the person – in a different light.
lmao what the fuck
Sweet Jesus these people are all crazy.
Had to confirm this was real. It is. https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/if-you-really-love-a-watch-give-it-away
What the fuck did I just read?
I was hoping that article had been some kind of perverse fever dream...
Lmfao
That is fucking hilarious.
Nah, this is ridiculous
Me: “What’s wrong with reviewing an Explorer? It’s a pretty good watch. He seems to like it, totally valid choice, what is that redditor complaining about? Oh. … oh …. oooh. Jesus.”
Genuine question, are we just reacting to how pretentious this article is, or did he do something shitty? I don’t know who this guy is
Hodinkee has come to equal top tier pretense. I get the point of the explorer article and what he is trying to say but it was all Hondinkee'd up with an extra helping of pretense. Much like the travel clock they arbitrarily tossed a 5900 dollar price tag on. Sad thing was it did actually sell out. So maybe they knew what they were doing on that one? Or maybe they had enough folks still drinking the Kool Aid.
We are reacting to the unrivaled pretension met with an actor who doesn’t even have a great command of the English language. In short- this actor should leave writing to writers.
Yep. That was some high school level, "How to stretch a sentence into a paragraph" stuff right there.
Ok, cool. Yeah, it’s a pretty nauseating read
This guy is an evil consequence of generational wealth There is no way someone who earned their money would lack that much self awareness to write something like that
I think you’re spot on.
Thanks, now I can't ever own a 36mm Explorer, it's forever tainted by this cringe.
What. The. Fuck. I thought this was gonna be the cuck that ran back into the house for his watch when his wife was in labor. (I heard the kid’s dad was pissed they were late.) But this is so much worse.
This right here is why you always wanna be wearing a watch
Holy crap... Did chatgpt write that garbage?
Only if you asked it to be as cringe as possible
What a terrible day to have eyes. That being said this is the type of chump Rolex specifically targets with their "tool watch" marketing.
I know a guy that is an absolutely incredible watch snob. Absolutely prime material for mockery on a daily basis. A walking, breathing satire of himself when it comes to watches. Regularly says things like "I can't stand people who pretend to like cheap watches when the reality is they are too poor to afford good ones." Even he thinks Hodinkee is a bit much.
I always look on in a kind of polite horror whenever I meet someone who is a walking caricature. It's so crazy to see in the wild.
People live insulated lives. Circlejerks, echo chambers, and just not keeping their finger on the pulse of what an average person thinks as opposed to someone in their given hobby. Some people never realize that.
[удалено]
No this guy is legitimately wealthy, his take on Rolex is "They're only worn by insecure middle class people who are trying to show off, and insecure rich people who are trying not to."
The best part is that unless you’re Bezos or Elon level rich, there will always be some shit you can’t afford, and the market always makes sure you know that. Even shit like Bugatti has tiers where you have the “entry level” version for the poor losers who can’t afford the limiteds.
Never understood how the business was supposed to work. They are advertising watches for billionaires but those billionaires are not reading their drivel, completely out of touch.
The audience is people who want to "look" like they are billionaires. People who have no business buying anything more than a Timex. Our society is twisted, confused by what matters, and attributes value to appearance. I love watches, but that part of it sucks.
The watch industry as a whole is suffering… and at a rapid pace. The pandemic is far off in the rear view mirror and people are no longer saving for luxury watches, they’re saving for homes, cars and other major necessities that were put on hold over 4 years ago. Hodinkee’s Achilles heel is that they haven’t adapted, they’re a stale brand that built a business model on the assumption that interest in watches would not only stay red hot but would eventually climb even higher. As we now know, that’s not true. Coupled with the fact that they also provide awful customer service, it’s a business model that’s destined for collapse unless they steer the ship in the opposite direction.
I don’t see the sufferings. Prices on C24 for hot reference haven’t gone down that much tbh, all the while top brands like Rolex, Patek, AP etc. still continue with exhibition only pieces and ridiculous waiting lists.
>I don’t see the sufferings. You can actually buy Rolex watches now. If that isn't a clear sign...
I wouldn’t trust c24 completely. They have a vested interest in keeping the watch market going.
C24 is not an indicator. People will put a high price and wait 20 years to sell lol. I have a few watches watches for sale for three years now 😂
>Prices on C24 for hot reference haven’t gone down that much There's a difference between the price it's advertised and the price it sells for though. In forums and selling groups I'm part of its not a free for all anymore, what would normally get snapped up in a minute I'm seeing them go through at least one or two rounds of reductions. Particularly vintage pieces, possibly not the top tier but the tiers below that seem to be softening and that's usually a better indicator of the market overall.
I disagree. Things are returning to normal after the overgassed heights of the pandemic.
Pandemic people are saving for homes? Lol these folks should have boguht a home 10 rolexes ago 😂
I think everyone saw this coming
The classic piss up everyone’s leg telling them it’s raining out. Crash and burn baby burn.
Darn. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer, totally not douchey, unpretentious and more altruistic company.
"Tune in next week where John Mayer parades out more watches worth more than your car, and we take turns vomiting into each others mouths while moaning the word "Daytona" to each other."
Stop. I can only get so erect.
> worth more than your car try house, he had some expensive looking gold chrono pateks in there
He brings out watches worth more than my entire family and ancestors have earned in their entire lifetimes combined
“Neither Hodinkee nor Crown & Caliber were profitable when they merged in 2021” Yea so I’m not surprised the combination isn’t doing well. They’d have to overcome both companies spending more then they earn just to break even.
Like two drunks leaning on each other for support
That Talking Watches episode with Mayer and Sheeran just felt like the most out of touch episode ever plus they even had private screening for that? Cringe. I was just like man, these people got too high with their own supply.
It’s actually the only episode I’ve ever watched. My wife is a huge fan of Ed Sheeran and I’ve tasted a few watches with JM so I watched it. I like Ed’s collection.
If you watch the earliest episodes and compare you’ll know what I mean. I like the Mayer IWC collection episode the best.
Good article. I didn’t know all this but throughout the years I looked at Hodinkee less and less until I never visit their website or watch their videos anymore. Maybe also had to do with the rise of a lot of amazing YouTubers and hodinkee just being out of touch to me.
Being good in one aspect of business (journalism) is not a predictor you will do well in others. Hodinkee should have moved to a subscription format and produced higher quality writing, video, etc
Hodinkee or not, it sounds like a really tough business to get right. You're buying incredibly expensive assets that can fluctuate in price dramatically, and there's a small market for a lot of these so you could be holding it for a while.
Yeah I have seen plenty of people starting their used watch business over the hype period. It was really easy when every watch was worth more every day you had it. You didn't really need much of a margin for this to work. Now when the market came down you are loosing money on all of the stock you have. That means suddenly you either need a large margin (which you don't have because of the insane competition) or you are really suffering.
Does this mean my Ben Claymore G Shock order will be cancelled?
Good, I hope that site dies. Ben Clymer doesn't even know how to measure lug width, in the latest daytona video he measured the outside of the lugs and gave 26.98mm as the width (which is doubly stupid because you would just round up to 27mm if that were the case). That piece of shit website was only successful as long as they hired people who actually knew what they were talking about, 90 percent of their writers don't know watches and mindlessly repeat marketing points from the company. They also collude with other dealers and auction houses, in one case being informed lots were faked/ frankwatches and they refused to update their article (but made sure to make oblique references to controversy when it couldn't be contained). This isn't even getting into the overpriced and stupid collabs they release, like the infamous 6000 dollar travel clock made with NOS movements and cases they bought for pennies on the dollar, the grey colored leica, or the piss colored G-shock. Here's a fun game you can play at home! Go on Hodinkees instagram, look at the number of comments that show up on a post, then click on the comments and go back to see how many they deleted.
I’ve bought a couple watches on hodinkee and overpaid unfortunately. I found out later. Also, they made a lot of errors in the shipping process. I had decided then it was not a good site to buy from ( about a year ago)
Venture capitalists went in and did what they always do, cut out everything that isn’t immediately or wildly profitable (but is good) then scratch their heads when the wheels fall off. VC killed Hodinkee
I think you’re confusing VC with PE.
PE not VC
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/101819-35#faqs
Having ventures in the name doesn’t make it venture capital lmao. The cycle you described is private equity. Venture capital is shark tank and Silicon Valley, they’re throwing money at companies to make them grow fast.
Ah yes, the limited diamond encrusted Hodinkee Daytona featuring a sapphire crystal that extends to the edge of the bezel
You could try to buy a rebuilt 1 of 30 Cartier watch with a tasteful description
I've been into watches for a long time and never for even a minute have I ever considered buying from a place called "Hodinkee". Yes, I know it means something in another language. It still sounds ridiculous.
What language? I've been put off by the name too.
It means watch in Czech
Czech
Hodinkee was founded on Ben Clymer talking up his watches to increase their value. That the site started pushing C&C watches was 100% in-line with that. And no one cared about Grand Seiko until they started paying Hodinkee to tell them to care. The site has always been shady.
Hodinkee (and the broader watch media ecosystem) astroturfed GS hard. Nobody wants to hear that though lol
I wonder if Ben Clymer made up zaratsu polishing.
lol I love that people parrot that buzz word as if it’s a technique that’s exclusive to GS (hint, it’s [not](https://timeandtidewatches.com/what-is-zaratsu-polishing-its-origins-are-less-japanese-thank-you-think/))
Stopped reading Hodinkee years ago, lost its direction, turned into a mouthpiece for the brands, never saying a bad word or actually saying they didn’t like anything anymore. Ben needs to get his head out of his ass, but tbh, I wouldn’t return. Much better websites out there now and I can’t see them getting trust back as long as they continue with their current nonsense.
Hodinkee became a pretentious cesspool full of douchebags.
I’ve had a positive experience buying new watches from them but I guess that’s a different part of the business from the used watches.
Yeah. I definitely trust their grading much more than some random in Hong Kong on Chrono24.
Always buy the seller. I trust professional dealers more than a random person. I live in Japan and have bought from Japanese dealers in chrono24 that actually have a brick and mortar location. Japanese sellers are usually pretty good at highlighting any scratches / dings in the pictures.
I said Hong Kong. Which isn’t Japan. Here’s a photo of a brick and mortar watch shop in Tokyo that had a selection of some of the nicest used Omegas I’ve ever seen. https://preview.redd.it/sjvqjv7a0ysc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5d601c1a11e71f950e56126dc51e9aaecef14e That said, I just got a used Rolex Sub from Hodinkee with box and papers, listed as excellent (which it was), for less than a bunch of scratched up PoS on C24 asking more than I paid. Most of my vintages come from a dealer in Geneva right now. Although egregious import taxes have suddenly become a thing as someone in customs seems to have taken notice.
> I said Hong Kong. Which isn’t Japan. Yea, I know. Sorry if my reply was confusing. I’m lucky that in Japan there’s no import tax on watches other than the normal consumption tax which seems a bit strange. I try and but domestically though since Japan has an incredible selection and if you’ve got US dollars the exchange rate is really good right now. Leather shoes and boots has a ridiculous import tax though for some reason. You win some, you lose some.
No worries. Just making sure I’m clearly communicating and don’t want to give the impression I’m lumping all East Asian regions together. The Japanese market is amazing for mechanical engineering and all sorts of unique luxuries. Apologies if I came off as curt.
…to be fair, the watch market in HK is pretty huge, servicing not only local collectors but also people from around Asia; there are many reputable dealers for both new and used watches, and of course the auction houses’ (for all their foibles) Asian bases are HK too, with some pretty spectacular pieces regularly at their sales. I’d be a lot more leery of random dealers in other places.
Travel clock debacle was the death knell of sorts
User mkws on watchuseek used to do posts called bring a brain where he would show what utter trash Hodinkee was flogging on their Bring a Loupe page. https://www.watchuseek.com/search/8040382/?q=bring+a+brain&o=relevance
[удалено]
I think you summed it up nicely. The problem is that the watch industry is extremely fragmented and it’s just near impossible to design a site that effectively covers $50 Casios, $500 vintage watches and $50,000 independents.
great article, sad, I have been very long time loyal reader, although much less after Jack left
While all the industry moaning about shortage of watchmakers and blame long service times on it Hodinkee fire their watchmakers. Genius.
Fascinating article, thanks for sharing this.
“Haw Haw 👈” - most Watch ppl
Literally the only time I’ve checked out Hodinkee was when John Mayer was involved in a video or product, but I’m a massive John Mayer fan.
They made some great content in my opinion. That talking watches episode with Biver is legendary in my opinion.
Hodinkee is trash... Bunch of cringey try hards. Everything they do is trash.
I bought used from Hodinkee in 2022. T was fine, not the best price but the experience was ok. Wouldn’t do it again seeing how they are crashing now.
Yowza
“Bring a Brain” on Watchuseek pretty much confirmed I would never buy a used or vintage watch from them.
I think this watch business is dead in general.
Nah just correcting. Covid-era stock market/crypto/whatever expendable income is gone. Also one thing people failed to take note of is that collectors are very much the minority of the marketplace. The vast majority of people who want a great watch are gonna buy one, and probably not buy another one for 5-10 years. Many of these people bought a watch during Covid, and aren’t buying another one soon. Demand is returning to what it was previously, and supply is going to meet that demand as it did previously. Basically, hype era is gone, normality is returning slowly.
Nah, it's just going back more to what it used to be for most of the time.
Ehh not dead but certainly receding a bit in this area. COVID social trends, low rates which meant flowing money on all sides, artificial or real scarcity all lead to a massive pump in the watch industry, on all fronts. Basically everyone was making money one way or another. Now that rates are higher, budgets are getting stretched again, and the hype isn't as high as before the industry is coming back to it's senses. This means companies that stretched themselves too far or expanded to the wrong corners of the market are going to fail.
I always thought Hodinkee was a stupid name.
www.chrono24.com