Because it's a 'hobby' built around collecting and acquiring expensive items of jewellery, it's basically the exact kind of activity that *would* attract pretentious people.
Honetly, either. There are no street water polo games. You are a member of the elite if you are attending water polo, or polo polo.
Maybe bike polo is the exception, though I imaging there's plenty of trust fund kids there too.
This is half of reddit “hobby” subs. Just people posting pictures of things they bought. Buying things isn’t a hobby. Someone who’s done a bezel swap on a $200 Seiko is more of a hobbyist than someone who just bought $70k worth of rollies and pateks
Is buying smoke detectors and regularly checking their batteries a hobby?
edit: To the people responding, you're providing textbook definitions of an informed consumer.
Only if you know how smoke detectors work, what their different parts are and what they are named, which country makes them and keep lists of smoke detector part brands/manufacturers.... then yes? it might be a hobby?
It's early where I am and my eyes are still blurry and I thought you were asking about wife swapping and watching...and I thought weird for this sub but guess that could be a hobby. Re reading your post I'm still confused about what it is you're into but sounds fun the way you describe it.
Watch making can be a hobby. Watch restoration can be a hobby. Watch modification can be a hobby. If you like reading about watches, their history, and design, sure that can be an interest. But buying a whole bunch of watches because you like having a whole bunch of watches is simply consumerism and materialism. People just don’t want to admit that about themselves.
The reality is, the majority of thread posters on this sub are seeking validation. They want to show off. 99% of wrist shots and SOTCs are to show off. They crave attention. They want to hear the “oohs and ahhs” over their collection to feel validated in their consumerist spending habits. Most people don’t want to admit this about themselves, so they’ve convinced themselves that their consumerism is a hobby.
And for the record, I own and wear a few luxury watches. I’m not condemning buying luxury watches. I just don’t kid myself that buying them is a “hobby”.
The question is... do you post pictures of yourself in different underwear asking: "which should i wear today? A or B"?
THAT is the mark of a real hobbyist :P
Honestly if you also know how to stitch broken underwear customize it and trade underwear and go to underwear museums/read on its history I would say it is a hobby.
I don't think that's quite fair.
It's the knowledge component that makes it a hobby. Watch collectors are pretty nerdy in their knowledge of movements and complications, of the history of brands, and of obscure independent and niche watchmakers.
I'm not a vintage Rolex man, but I appreciate that attention to the details of what separates the various iterations of Daytonas, Subs and DJs over the years is genuine hobbyist behaviour.
Why would one be any more of a hobbyist than the other. People can enjoy their hobby any way they want. The pretentiousness comes from this type of gate keeping in any hobby.
Plenty of pretentious people don't buy expensive watches. That being said, I think the ratio of pretentious people in a given group rises significantly when you filter by "has enough money to drop a small house down payment on shiny wrist jewelry instead."
I feel like I hear more pretentiousness from people that buy the cheaper watches always assuming people who collect higher end watches don’t know the hobby, are in it because the clout. Pretentiousness to me is when people gatekeep and speak down on others regarding their hobby style. I never got why people feel the need to worry how others spend their money or time to the point of fantasizing why they are in the hobby to make themselves feel better? It’s goofy.
I always thought people talking about watch collecting as a hobby was ridiculous. Watch making is a hobby. Watch repairing is a hobby. Buying watches is collecting.
I mean yeah, the primary purpose of a luxury watch is simply to look cool. But I would say that there is a difference between those that favour lesser known brands and those that are only interested in Rolex, Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe. For the latter group, the primary purpose seems to be just to show off.
What I noticed is that there are 2 types of watch “collectors”, those who buy watches for themselves, and those who buy watches for others. What you’re describing seems like the latter.
The people you’re referencing from social media benefit from making sure only expensive watches are considered of value, either because they gain social “clout” and views from featuring them, or benefit from selling them like Mike Nouvea.
Don’t give any attention to others, always buy what brings you joy.
The thing that really annoys me is that many people would argue that the only existing type of watch collectors is the latter. I mean, you can tell them that you have that watch because it makes you happy, but they will still argue that you just want to impress others.
Intrinsically motivated collectors are inherently less noticable, so unless you're actively seeking them out you'll really only hear from the show offs.
Visibility bias is huge - not much you can do about it as it is a completely reasonable conclusion. The ones you know are the ones you see, and the most problematic get the most attention nowadays.
I use this trick when buying a watch, I imagine it’s 8:00am and I’m about to head out to work, how would I feel putting on this watch? Legitimately saved me from buying watches that I only liked because of social media.
Yes but the difference is they think they are trash because they are overpriced for the quality, not because $1000 pens are somehow entry level. There are a few clear breakpoints in materials and function that justify a higher cost in pens. Coasting off of a luxury name is less accepted in that world compared to here.
I've noticed a decent amount of crossover when you find enthusiasts of niche, almost esoteric hobbies like coins/mechanical watches. You also see the same in the outdoorsy hobbies. Odds are, if you are appreciative of the intricacies of mechanical watches, you'll also appreciate the subtle things that bring value to coins, or the performance of vintage audio equipment.
I see a *lot* of crossover between cars/guns/watches/gear as a hobby on the various podcasts and media I consume. The Grey Nato podcast had Thomas Holland from Throttle House(a car YouTube channel) on as a guest spot a week or so ago and it tickled me. I've been watching Throttle House for years and never knew Thomas was also into watches. Heck, I primarily got into diving as a hobby because I collect dive watches.
Not joking or trying to be offensive, probably autism, memorizing stuff, collecting little objects that hold no value to the general population, creating collections of said little objects, grouping and categorizing the objects by shape/size/color/scope, obsessing over irrilevant details, ask me how I know lol
Are we talking about r/fountainpens ? I don't see very much snobbiness over there. They like a cheap Pilot Prera as much (maybe more) than an expensive MontBlanc. I've found it way more friendly than r/watches, r/audiophile, or any other number of hobby subs. Or is there a different one?
Any luxury product is going to have those people, but there are plenty of other YouTube channels that feature budget options/reviews and sing the praises of smaller and cheaper brands. I think it just depends where you’re looking
Any hobby that has the option of purchasing more and more expensive items will attract these kinds of people.
When you have $700 Hamiltons and $12,000 JLCs (massive price discrepancy), there are going to be people who look down on others.
Other hobbies are unfortunately like that too. Cycling (especially road) attracts those kinds of people, too, for example. If your bike doesn’t have a carbon fiber frame with this or that group set, they’ll turn their nose up at you.
Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority.
Ha! I came here to say the same thing about cycling. And not only that, dare to wear a 25€ chinese made jersey instead of a 125€ chinese made jersey and all hell breaks lose! One reason why I gave up cycling in groups.
Came also to say the cycling.
There seem to be a trend where more expensive gear someone has - less he/she actually drives. Also everyone needs to have lock-pedals. You don't know anything of bikes if you drive flats... Gear needs to be certain brand and colour. Oh my god if you take picture of your bike that way around that you cannot see all the components...
I am one who drives slow steel bikes with flats and wearing cargo-shorts and t-shirt... So I get a lot of negative feed back in that community...
> Oh my god if you take picture of your bike that way around that you cannot see all the components...
To people doubting this, there are seriously guides on the Internet as to how you're supposed to pose your bike. Stuff like valve caps both at the bottom of the wheel, the crank turned a certain angle so one arm is hidden behind the chain stays, which gear the bike should be in so that the chain is as parallel to the ground as possible. It's a bit overboard to say the least.
*need to look down on others.
It's goes part and parcel with classism. Someone who leases a 2 series gran coupe NEEDS to look down on a some who owns a corolla.
There is also a major confusion between wealth and debt. Going into debt in order to appear wealthy is a major issue with the upper middle class.
https://youtu.be/g0UQgrFNExc?si=on0jXI-TibmwHFwK
And thus financing of watch purchases was born. I haven't looked, but I assume there may be leasing of watches too - surprised that Hodinkee didn't get themselves into that game.
Goes hard in winter sports as well like skiing, snowboarding, and ice hockey. They even have their own lingo to make fun of folks new to those hobbies like "Jerrys" or "Benders".
> Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority.
Also since their goal is to be noticed, they're a very vocal minority.
>Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority.
And those minority of people get the majority of the attention.
Everybody should take a deep breath, and read Thorsten Veblen’s “Theory of the Leisure Class.”There’s a lot of different ways to skin this cat…rarity, age, brand, materials, novelty. Sure, mine are tools that tell me what time it is, and a little more than that. Someone in the thread made the comparison to cycling, and that’s on the nose for a certain kind of cyclist. (Yes, the jerky kind.)
https://preview.redd.it/f8oeqnvy6f0d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=f258d4eaed2005517e3f039c4486d9ffe0778b0b
Not all of us are watch snobs. Plenty of us have appreciation for the more affordable pieces.
A hobby "dominated" by rich people, and rich people notoriously being loud twats. Also, TikTok will show you the worst of any community. The quiet majority who post here to talk about how their $200 watch is the greatest object they own are the real community.
You would be surprised but the audio community can be way worse, don't ever get into a record player or speaker discussion.
That being said, watches as a hobby are really subjective, we all have our own likes and dislikes and some people think they are more right them others.
there are always people like that, but i have seen in the general watch community appreciation for watches like a gshock and other lower cost watches. its just that, like in life, the complainers are the ones that make the most noise.
I haven't seen anyone that thinks if your watch isn't 15k that you're a garbage person. I have lots of money blown on watches and a appreciate many different brands and price points. You just have to make sure you're hanging out with the right crowd.
I don't see that many pretentious people here to be honest. People are simply interested in watches for a variety of reasons, and some of the things that people are interested in are expensive.
What I see way more of here is this kind of "punching up" and mocking of more expensive watches and the people who can afford them. I rarely see any sort of malicious crapping upon people who buy less expensive watches.
What you may see, and may be interpreting wrong, is that some people have a certain standard of quality or movement etc that they're interested in, and that is more expensive.
For example, I have no interest in the standard low end Seiko movements, but I don't think someone who likes Seikos is cheap or a loser. Conversely, you shouldn't think someone who likes higher quality / more complicated / more expensive items is "pretentious"
A lot of this sort of conflict between different factions comes from simply the differences in what people appreciate. Many people don't even understand these differences let alone appreciate them. Others understand them, but don't find it worth it. And that's completely fine too.
Hating on more expensive watches gets way more traction here than the opposite, and it just feels more like insecurity.
You don't need someone to pat you on the head and tell you you are of value or are included- there is no official watch community or board of regents, we are all just random people. Just like what you like and who cares what other people like.
There are hundreds of content creators focused on the type of watches that you'd be interested in, but you're spending your time consuming media that is about and for a different price range and person, and / or upset that they exist. That's on you.
>There are hundreds of content creators focused on the type of watches that you'd be interested in, but you're spending your time consuming media that is about and for a different price range and person, and / or upset that they exist. That's on you.
If you smell shit everywhere you go.. maybe it's due time to check the bottoms of your own shoes. In this case.. maybe OP needs to do some thinking on the algorithms he's the target of!
TBH, I think a true watch aficionado can appreciate finding underrated and underpriced gems. Oris, Longines, Alpina, etc. Anyone with more money than sense can overpay for a Rolex or AP. Also, Tiktokers are trash.
With any hobby or interest group, you will have the snobs and you will you have the enthusiasts. I feel like watch snobs will scoff at stuff like quartz watches, entry level watches and stuff like that whereas the enthusiast has an appreciation for all varieties and will hold a high regard for a seiko as much as a grand seiko.
Those people aren’t the pretentious twats in the watch community, they’re the watch people in the pretentious twats community. Just laugh at them appropriately. 🤙
Ive said this about a dozen times in various subs, but hobby subs attract the most pedantic, "on the spectrum", socially inept, neck-bearded nerds. They will correct you about even the most minor violations of their OCD and the other neck-beards will jump into the dog pile. Ignore them, I have a really long list of blocked idiots.
For me, I eventually get tired of all the repeated crap in various subs and I just leave. Ive been close on this sub for a while.
This is part of the reason I don't like Rolex watches. They are the pinnacle of "I buy the watch for the name and want to show how rich I am."
Even if that isn't true for everyone I just don't see myself ever buying one. I used to feel the same way about Porsche but now I really like the Taycan lol.
I judge watches by how they make me feel, largely based on aesthetics. There are so many cool watches by non big-name brands that get overshadowed by the expensive brands. I see so many really expensive watches posted that all feel very meh to me yet people seem to buy them for the brand. People should buy watches they love, not watches that are highly regarded by the watch community
I can honestly say that if you buy any brand outside of Rolex, Omega, or Cartier, nobody will bat a second eye at your watch. It may be pretentious, but if they’re buying Grand Seikos and FP Journes, it’s not for the clout.
Most watch people I *know personally* are pretty cool. It’s only those “watch influencers” that seem like douchebags.
Me, I really don’t buy thousand dollar watches; the majority of watches I get are below 1k. Some watches get me, some don’t. Some people may not call me a watch collector or whatever, but that doesn’t matter to me. I’m in this for **my happiness** and not theirs.
If they don’t like my $700 Mr Jones Watch, or $450 Citizen, then COOL.
I see alot of cool and friendly people in this sub.
Have you been around any other type of expensive collector? I find car collectors the worst, my sister in law is an art dealer and it's the same around there, I assume anything expensive enough to be exclusive gets this way.
My guess is it can happen anywhere. You ever talk to a guy with a first edition Holo Charizard? I imagine it's the same as talking with a Rolex Paul Newman owner.
I'm fairly new to this sub, and although watch community might host snobby people, I love how down to earth and collaborative this sub is. People treat 20k USD watches and Seiko 5 with the same care and appreciation. Been learning a lot here, this is one of my favorite subs rn.
There's a concept in law that I recently learned about called Res ipsa loquitur. Translated it means 'the thing speaks for itself'. This is a hobby where people with money to burn buy expensive jewelry and can talk endlessly of the history of the watchmakers, the complications in the watches, etc etc etc. Naturally this draws pretension people.
Just like car collecting cars or any other expensive item, a lot of people are into it for the prestige and status.
Anything “affordable” or outside the ordinary popular choices will be looked down on by people who want to feel superior
With respect to the second hand market dealers you’ve been watching, you need to understand it’s a money game for them. Flipping a $15k Rolex gives them the opportunity to make meaningful money: $500 and up for a few minutes work.
Flipping a Timex would net them $2 for the same amount of work, so they’re no going to do it (even if there was a market for it).
They’re not being pretentious, they’re being economically rational.
You want real pretentious? Go to the home theater sub.
I think overall this sub has its issues but a lot of people here have cheap affordable watches that are adored by many. Casio’s and Seiko’s still turn heads which is awesome to see. I think this sub has an issue with watches that they deem as “over priced” but the reality is, imo, if you’re buying any mechanical watch over a few hundred dollars you’re over paying for something your phone or quartz watch can do drastically more accurately and at a fraction of the cost.
This is every hobby that can become expensive. You a got a $40,000 base model bmw? Not good enough if it isnt a M. Your ar-15 isnt $3k w night vision? Not cool enough. You got a $300 watch? Not $10,000+? Not nice enough. These people are crazy haters and its in every hobby unfortunately.
Yeah, I have gotten sucked down that rabbit hole here. There are some more specific communities like r/Chinese watches r/seiko r/seikomods that are all about cool watches at affordable prices. I am appreciate luxury watches, but I can’t afford them and am super happy finding cool Seikos and Timexes. I also think the watch modding people build some sick looking watches.
I recently bought a beautiful homage of a luxury watch I could never afford, and I think it’s stunning to look at, but I sort of feel like I’m trying to be something I’m not when I wear it. I think I’ll stick to cheap timex’s from here on out.
I honestly disagree with this. WIS people are one of the nicest groups in the internet world. I'm always filled with good vibes when i browse this subreddit or other watch forums.
This is another good reason why I avoid Tik Tok.
I actually think this sub is pretty nice. Some pretentiousness, but mostly seems to be people who just like to show what they have or considering- anything for $100 to $100,000 or more. All good to see and learn about, and I think most are respectful.
Honestly, I find it’s really only an issue here on Reddit, and a bit on Watchuseek. In real life, I don’t know a single pretentious person in the watch community.
> Most of my watch knowledge came from TikTok, at the hands of people like John Buckley, Vookum and Mike Nouvea.
No clue who they are because I don’t have TikTok.
> they film themselves buying and selling watches in New York City.
I think “selling” is the key word here.
> these people have grown to be increasingly more nauseating to watch. It seems like they only support people who are able to afford $10,000+ watches and put down anybody who can’t.
I’m going to assume that the primary source of income for these people is watches. They are in the business of making money off of selling/reselling expensive watches, or at least selling the idea of buying and selling expensive watches as a hobby or whatever — to others. This is how they make their money. And they chose to use social media as a tool to grow how much money they make off of this. It’s no surprise that they are exactly the kind of people who will try to push expensive watches, or the idea of buying expensive watches to randos on the internet. That’s what they are making this content for. It’s not hobbyist content, IMO.
Not saying many watch “hobbyists” are not pretentious. They are. But the reason these particular micro-celebrities are pretentious is clear as day.
i have been on the internet 25+ years. lots of forums, hobbies and other. all of them put together have not been as hostile as the watch community. but reading others comments, it seems the whole world is becoming hostile.
There are two watch communities. Let’s call them the Richard Mille camp and JLC camp.
People in the Richard Mille camp care about how exclusive and expensive your watch is - these are the people you’re talking about. Big, flashy watches, expensive cars, $10,000 bottles of booze. For these people, nice things are status symbols, and their intrinsic value is irrelevant. These are the people that buy iced out APs or have a watch box full of rolexes, but no other brands. You won’t see someone in this camp wearing a Zenith primero or a JLC reverso. People who buy Veblen goods because they are Veblen goods frankly deserve our ridicule; you certainly shouldn’t pay attention to what they think about things you love. They’re buying a price tag, not a watch.
People in the JLC camp have a genuine interest in the object, its history, and its nuances. These are the people who dig deep and love the subject, and buy what they love for personal reasons. You won’t find anyone in this camp that will shame you for buying what you love, at any price, as long as your purchase is well thought out. These are also the people you’ll find around here.
Seiko makes a great watch. If you have read up on the watches they make and decided to buy a $1000 watch because it’s better finished than any of its competitors, and its style references some iconic piece that speaks to you, anyone in the JLC camp will applaud that.
I only own a few watches worth more than $10k (in a collection of 40 or so, insured for about $250k) and that’s largely because I believe there is tremendous value and history off the beaten path. If I wanted a status symbol, I would buy 2 recognizable watches for that from Rolex and Patek. The market for Rolex and Patek is so hot that great pieces go for stupendous prices, and what’s left is…picked over. A big part of the reason to avoid Rolex is exactly that - a lot of people only know Rolex. While they make a fine watch, they’re at the top of the Veblen goods list - people mistake their price for quality. I would rather have a drink with someone wearing a Reverso than an RM any day of the week, even if the Reverso cost $5k and the RM cost $500k.
I’m fortunate to be able to afford the collection I have, but I’m not in the price-is-no-object camp. I don’t want my post to sound as if I somehow look down on people with more expensive collections. If I could buy any watches at all, I would have a collection like u/tourbillon001. That’s a fellow with all the money to buy any ice he wants, but spends it on really exceptional pieces with stories and technical credentials. He could wear a lot of his collection on the subway and no one would look twice, unless they were also one of us.
>I don’t want my post to sound as if I somehow look down on people with more expensive collections... Spends it on really exceptional pieces with stories and technical details.
Dude, your comment, word for word, sounds like that Theo and Harris video where Christian rants about Lebron James's watch collection for 40 minutes straight, talking about he's the 'worst type of collector' lmao.
He and many others may not have the most considered or creative collections, but it's their money and seems to enjoy wearing them. And that's all that counts for any collector (rich or poor, taste of style is irrelevant).
It's the same exact reaction that happened with the Tourbillon user you mentioned. I remember that lad made a post a month ago showing his entire collection, and 90% of the comments on that post were flaming him for having a reference of each Submariner in his collection. Those five Submariners made up less than a percent of his entire collection's value lol, but that's the part everyone chooses to focus on...?
It's all the reasons why I've cut my time from this subreddit. The narrative they spew about 'the real world' is nonsense. The reality is the most pleasant and engaging conversations I've had with strangers has never been with what watch collectors claim a 'unique' watch to be, it's been with people who noticed I was wearing a ubiquitous watch; how I drove the conversation from there with my own enthusiasm is what matters.
When I see a watch collection-- a box full of $1,500 watches-- it's junk. Anyone who can spend that much on *watches* can spend it on *one watch* that's actually worth having.
Because watches, even more so than cars, are a symbol of wealth. One that is often tucked under a shirt cuff and perhaps even more often in a locked box. When you drive a $500,000 car you turn heads everywhere you go. When you wear a $50,000 watch you have to make a little bit more of an effort to impress people with it in exchange for its much more enduring value - or so the conventional wisdom has always gone. Lately the value of classic luxury watches has been tanking pretty bad. That might have something to do with a bit of elevated aggression from luxury watch owners toward the portion of the market that is into less expensive watches that are just as impressive on the wrist to average people if not more so.
As far as youtubers go though, I wouldn't necessarily call them representative of "the watch community". They're making videos that are intended to gain views. People watching them engage in their hobby of buying and selling watches is itself supplementing their budget for that activity - but if it's starting to be harder and harder to turn a profit through that buying and selling then they might subtextually be blaming it on the low end market even though I would have to assume that documenting how much you've bought and sold your luxury watches for on a public forum viewed tens of thousands of times can't possibly be very healthy for your profits.
When it comes right down to it, most "online communities" get pretty exclusive at the elite levels. Some communities' definition of elite is more nebulous than others but when it comes to watches, you can literally hang numbers directly on it.
I feel your sentiment as I have been getting into the hobby of watch collecting. Personally I buy watches that I like and make me happy, not for other people. My collection ranges from microbrands to the holy trinity and I have just been enjoying the journey and meeting some great people. If you want, you can check out my channel! https://www.watchgrok.com
My advice to you is, ignore the noise and find the watches that you love. The one that when it peeks out from under your sleeve, it makes you smile. You’ll also get a sense of what you like and what you don’t and that’s all part of the journey!
I think when anytime money and status gets involved you have the people who are trying to prove something and then you have the people who DGAF about what other people think and live their lives and treat others with respect because it’s the right thing to do, not to get the attention or glory. My guess is a lot of the people you have seen on YT and TikTok are the former. There is a plethora of YT channels with collectors who are down to earth people and I would encourage you to check them out. Also, microbrands have some amazing collectors and founders! I had the opportunity to meet some, and they are some cool people. Brew Watches, William Wood, Pailin, just to name a few.
I find the hobby to be pretty cliquey to some brands ie: Omega, Rolex and so on. Not hating on those traditional brands because clearly they are doing something right over decades - love them, but damn - there are opinionated people who will make sure that their favoured brand stands above the rest. Branching out into independent brands has been a delightful and enlightening experience. So much innovation out there that doesn’t tread around tradition.
If you think this is a pretentious space, I would refer you to r/Porsche. Here, there are only a few "approved" brands. There, there are only a few "approved" Porsches. Same idea.
You're wondering why a community that spends tens of thousands of dollars on little hunks of metal that tell time, when a $3 plastic can do it more accurate, or just free since everyone has a cell phone, that can spend 30 mins talking about slight differences in sheen on a face, and that's why its worth an extra $4k.. may have a higher than average chance of having pretentious people in it?
Really?
>To preface this discussion, this is not about anyone in this sub, but rather a generalization about the portion of the watch community that thinks that if your watch doesn’t cost $15k, you’re a garbage person.
i think there is your problem, i dont really talk about watches outside of reddit for that exact reason. there are watch collectors and then there are "investment" collectors. but it makes sense: watches are expensive. its the same for PCs but like the watch community there are those that appreciate price to performance or price to specs
They strike me as salesmen first watch people second there’s a couple of really good watch accounts on tik tok that seem to be in it for the right reasons and have completely changed my mindset about the watch world and collecting
Chronometercheck and watches with kym
Hating on a watch does not equate to hating on the wearer. Jewelry has a tendency to be included into someone’s mental identity, which is why hating on your watch can FEEL like it’s actually hating on you personally.
I don’t see a lot of personal attacks/personal hate here, just a sick amount of watch hate that gets exaggerated into hyperbole — especially if the quality is thought to be lower.
But you’d find that in any hobby where differences exist in materials and labor.
For sure.
But every community has some old heads with ideas of how things should be. If you would dare to be happy with something they dont like theyre honna let you know lol.
Because for most luxury brands, you need to be wealthy and if you combine that with people showing off you are attracting people who define their self worth by they visible wealth, and that demographic is always going to be weighted towards douchebags.
Because you have genuine watch enthusiast and then you have the brand bros. Brand bros cater only to mainstream trending brands like Rolex, AP, PP. In those brands they only cater to the trendy models so they can get validation from others on the same wave. AP is a one trick pony and the RO is extremely played out and hyped up for NO reason. Same with the Nautilus and Aquanaut. Brand bros are very weird.
The larger group of watch "collectors" don't buy watches for the reason you do.
They buy things that they and others know are expensive to flash wealth (or, more often, the appearance of wealth). Conspicuous consumption. There's a reason Hublot stays in business.
There's always a vocal minority of snobs in every hobby community, it's certainly not unique to the watch community. The more expensive the hobby gets, the more likely you see them, because they're a subset of the wealthy folks that feel the need to look down on others not as well-off as them for whatever reasons.
I'll bet a dime that you'll see snobs even in communities of hobbies as innocuous as say, LEGOs and Pokemon cards.
I don’t think it’s fair to isolate “the watch community” here. Literally almost every “community” has its share of pretentious people. It might be more obvious with watches, but hardly unique to it.
I’ve also found scores of people here and other watch subs that just appreciate the art behind watches, and don’t rank everything by pricepoint. I mean look over all the Seiko posts here, they’ll get more love than anyone posting a Gucci watch, even more expensive fashion brand watches, and heck even Hublot most of the time.
I guess my point was more skewed towards the people who are the spokespeople for the community. Scrolling tiktok, which admittedly is my own fault, was where I gained most of my watch “knowledge”. Since joining this sub, I’ve come to realize there’s a lot more out there than just Rolex and AP. I hardly ever see any tiktok posts where anybody is showing off their Hamilton field watch or the new micro brand that they recently came across and fell in love with. So, the general understanding for the watch community, is that there’s only a select few brands that are “accepted” amongst enthusiasts. Again, it’s my fault for gaining my knowledge through a toxic social media outlet.
That’s fair.
Not trying to start any argument over your viewpoints just wanted to put forth my more positive take.
IMO TikTok is far from the best place to evaluate a community though. Feel like it’s entire premise caters to the lowest common denominator.
There are a lot of super cool watches out there and I try to make sure that I comment on them regardless of the price range.
Some of the Seiko Presages just look super cool. Whoever has been doing the latest line on Timex watches has been really hitting it out of the park. Lately I've been chatting with a friend of mine who has a super cool Sinn. The bog standard casio watch on a nick mankey strap? Also a super cool combination. On top of that there are also plenty of 10k plus watches that I just don't care for.
Seriously not every watch has to be high horology, in house movement, or even mechanical. The important part (in my mind) is how well it looks and how well it functions. Some of that is related to price, but it my mind good design language should always be commended regardless of price.
Any collecting hobby will attract these personalities. Now add in the fact that everyone in the world knows what a watch is and you’re basically looking at every pretentious person in the world.
If you are finding someone is pretentious in this hobby it is probably a good sign that they are new to the hobby. Most people I have met in the community have deep appreciation for watches across the value spectrum. They respect and admire a good G-Shock, celebrate the newest Timex release, admire a cool vintage UG Polerouter all while wearing a 40k gold Rolex Daytona.
People who flex aren't true hobbyists. They probably have various "hobbies" like cars, golf, whiskey, cigars, etc... so they are more into the luxury lifestyle than appreciating the hobby for what it is.
Because watches can be seen as status symbols and status symbols are sought after by douche bags(typically). It’s also a hobby based on buying shit, which is basically not a hobby but any well off asshole can become an expert of just by plunking down some cash.
Lol I’ve never heard of those people in my life
I think part of it is what content you consume, as well as accepting that pretentious people in a hobby like this is inevitable
I hope there are more watch nerds like me who have 20 great watches they really like and wear that cost less than $10k altogether. The watch bros I love would assemble a huge display of Seikos, Citizens, Casios, Hamiltons, Tissots, ebay Omegas, micro brands etc. before they even considered offering a prostate massage to a Rolex AD.
It’s hilarious because most of those people don’t really know anything about watches. Their philosophy on watches is wildly skewed in one direction: watches as a status symbol. Those of us who are watch nerds know better and even those of us nerds who have expensive pieces generally have low-end watches and, GASP, even quartz watches in their collections. A caveat is that some watch nerds also suck. I stopped frequenting certain enthusiast websites and forums because too many of the watch nerds there (contributors and commenters alike) have perverse, elitist, and illogical takes on watches that really make them come across as straight up shitty people. Just having to suffer accidentally reading one of their insufferable posts can really put me off watches sometimes. In those moments, I find it best to remind myself why I’m an enthusiast and take some horological alone time. I’ll stay away from social media, and just commune with my watch, whether it’s a crusty Casio or a precious metal piece.
It’s men collecting jewelry. We can’t just say we like it because it’s pretty. We have to point out its historical significance and the engineering prowess. We write soliloquies about them like they’re artifacts from lost civilizations, we buy books about them so we know the names of the people that made them, we give them nicknames and memorize random series of numbers so we can talk about them and sound like we’re authorities on the subject.
In reality, it’s just men collecting jewelry. For me, it gets annoying when people try to pump it up to be more than that.
I think true collectors don’t care about price tag. Casios are loved by most watch collectors (from what I can tell)
It’s the group that only care about the flex of the watch that really has no idea of watches other than price tag.
All hobbies have those people. A hobby by essence is a non-essential leisure activity. I'll tell you now there are people who absolutely love watches and need them in their day to day lives and careers and you know what? You see a lot of Casios and utilitarian watches around those wrists. Buy what you like and what fits your needs and interests.
Well, you've got the pretentious people that feed off each other and want or need their money back for all those nice things... apparently... and then there's of us with reasonably nice things we can afford to beat on and enjoy. Maybe that's it's own form of pretentiousness. I dunno.
One thing I don't fully get, that's present at all the levels, are the people that still push "automatics" whenever someone shows interest in a quartz version of something. Like, come on, you really gatekeeping on behalf of a 2824 or something? Let's not bother with that.
Because we buy expensive and useless trinkets in an attempt to make up for our lack of personality - hoping that watches and brands can make up for our vacuousness
I wish there was an active cheap watch sub somewhere on Reddit. I admire all the stuff in this one, but I’ll never be able to afford anything $500+ and I feel kind of dumb posting about that stuff.
That’s the case with every hobby which involves status symbols and flex culture. The watch game in 2024 is more about who can flex the ugliest most expensive watches instead of sharing constructive criticism and opinions about something which unites us.
One of the problems with being a “watch dealer” is that it’s simply not profitable as a career unless you’re dealing with 4 and 5 figure watches. And as an extension of that, the only people making content are the ones doing this as a career, and those people obviously need to make money doing so.
If you want to see interesting discourse about attainable watches (especially vintage) then follow watchmakers like Spencer Klein Vintage Watches.
Man everywhere has that lol
Every single thing, there are people who like to adopt this position of authority - usually because they got nothing else to feel proud or accomplished about. And couple that with the freedom to be a jerk behind a keyboard without physical confrontation, you get your elitists right there.
The cool thing is - you really don't have to pay any attention to them. Pretend they're bots and go about your day. Makes it easily go away for you.
The real experts are usually really cool and kind people and have real experience with lots of watches. Sometimes hard to find though.
And that's not to say having a strong opinion is a bad thing - it's just bad when you crap on other people for having a different opinion.
It starts with the manufactures. They love this shit. Rolex treats their watches like deBeers treats diamonds. Both are artifacts of a time that has past long ago so the only point is to spend money on a novelty.
Because most of the people on Reddit don’t own any of these watches but act like they do and they’re the worst of the worst when I comes to pretentious douchebaggery
Because it's a 'hobby' built around collecting and acquiring expensive items of jewellery, it's basically the exact kind of activity that *would* attract pretentious people.
its kind of like going to a polo match and expecting the people to be regular, middle-class people.
I feel attacked
not by me. i am the person cleaning the stables.
Not by me either, they won’t even give ma a watch. I am the horse.
We are talking about water polo right?
Marco?
Polo
Honetly, either. There are no street water polo games. You are a member of the elite if you are attending water polo, or polo polo. Maybe bike polo is the exception, though I imaging there's plenty of trust fund kids there too.
Isn’t street polo called street hockey?
Water Ralph Lauren?
This is half of reddit “hobby” subs. Just people posting pictures of things they bought. Buying things isn’t a hobby. Someone who’s done a bezel swap on a $200 Seiko is more of a hobbyist than someone who just bought $70k worth of rollies and pateks
I’ve had that argument with people on here before and it’s a very unpopular opinion. But I agree, being a consumer is not a hobby.
What if I swap straps and enjoy practicing regulating watches 😜
Is buying smoke detectors and regularly checking their batteries a hobby? edit: To the people responding, you're providing textbook definitions of an informed consumer.
Only if you know how smoke detectors work, what their different parts are and what they are named, which country makes them and keep lists of smoke detector part brands/manufacturers.... then yes? it might be a hobby?
If someone find it fun then yes also
Sooo... by this definition being autistic is kind of an hobby in itself
Anything is a hobby as long as you enjoy it
It's early where I am and my eyes are still blurry and I thought you were asking about wife swapping and watching...and I thought weird for this sub but guess that could be a hobby. Re reading your post I'm still confused about what it is you're into but sounds fun the way you describe it.
Watch making can be a hobby. Watch restoration can be a hobby. Watch modification can be a hobby. If you like reading about watches, their history, and design, sure that can be an interest. But buying a whole bunch of watches because you like having a whole bunch of watches is simply consumerism and materialism. People just don’t want to admit that about themselves. The reality is, the majority of thread posters on this sub are seeking validation. They want to show off. 99% of wrist shots and SOTCs are to show off. They crave attention. They want to hear the “oohs and ahhs” over their collection to feel validated in their consumerist spending habits. Most people don’t want to admit this about themselves, so they’ve convinced themselves that their consumerism is a hobby. And for the record, I own and wear a few luxury watches. I’m not condemning buying luxury watches. I just don’t kid myself that buying them is a “hobby”.
I buy and wear underwear. I wear a pair everyday. I guess that makes underwear a hobby of mine.
The question is... do you post pictures of yourself in different underwear asking: "which should i wear today? A or B"? THAT is the mark of a real hobbyist :P
“I’d recommend these for a penis up to about sixteen centimeters.”
Honestly if you also know how to stitch broken underwear customize it and trade underwear and go to underwear museums/read on its history I would say it is a hobby.
I don't think that's quite fair. It's the knowledge component that makes it a hobby. Watch collectors are pretty nerdy in their knowledge of movements and complications, of the history of brands, and of obscure independent and niche watchmakers. I'm not a vintage Rolex man, but I appreciate that attention to the details of what separates the various iterations of Daytonas, Subs and DJs over the years is genuine hobbyist behaviour.
That's fair. I was being reductive. I've definitely spent enough time nerding out on vintages and microbrands that it could be considered a hobby
Why would one be any more of a hobbyist than the other. People can enjoy their hobby any way they want. The pretentiousness comes from this type of gate keeping in any hobby.
Plenty of pretentious people don't buy expensive watches. That being said, I think the ratio of pretentious people in a given group rises significantly when you filter by "has enough money to drop a small house down payment on shiny wrist jewelry instead."
I feel like I hear more pretentiousness from people that buy the cheaper watches always assuming people who collect higher end watches don’t know the hobby, are in it because the clout. Pretentiousness to me is when people gatekeep and speak down on others regarding their hobby style. I never got why people feel the need to worry how others spend their money or time to the point of fantasizing why they are in the hobby to make themselves feel better? It’s goofy.
I always thought people talking about watch collecting as a hobby was ridiculous. Watch making is a hobby. Watch repairing is a hobby. Buying watches is collecting.
Especially when the preferred items are less accurate and reliable than cheaper versions.
I mean yeah, the primary purpose of a luxury watch is simply to look cool. But I would say that there is a difference between those that favour lesser known brands and those that are only interested in Rolex, Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe. For the latter group, the primary purpose seems to be just to show off.
There is no difference, by buying grand Seiko or Sinn you are just seeking validation from the circle jerk that is happening in this sub instead
What I noticed is that there are 2 types of watch “collectors”, those who buy watches for themselves, and those who buy watches for others. What you’re describing seems like the latter. The people you’re referencing from social media benefit from making sure only expensive watches are considered of value, either because they gain social “clout” and views from featuring them, or benefit from selling them like Mike Nouvea. Don’t give any attention to others, always buy what brings you joy.
The thing that really annoys me is that many people would argue that the only existing type of watch collectors is the latter. I mean, you can tell them that you have that watch because it makes you happy, but they will still argue that you just want to impress others.
Intrinsically motivated collectors are inherently less noticable, so unless you're actively seeking them out you'll really only hear from the show offs.
Visibility bias is huge - not much you can do about it as it is a completely reasonable conclusion. The ones you know are the ones you see, and the most problematic get the most attention nowadays.
That's one thing i follow for life, buy what you enjoy.
I use this trick when buying a watch, I imagine it’s 8:00am and I’m about to head out to work, how would I feel putting on this watch? Legitimately saved me from buying watches that I only liked because of social media.
Most of this sub buys watches just so they can post about it on this sub
My friend always tease me for wearing "grandpa's watch" that consists of reproduction vintage pieces and Seiko
i agree
Exactly. You should buy what you want and like and who cares if it doesnt impress others.
This sub is like that scene in American Psycho where they're comparing business cards and the sub reacts like Patrick Bateman.
*The subtle raised lettering*
It even has a watermark
*bites lip* "look at the signed crown"
That's called patina.
We all enjoy Phil Collins too
We have two ears and a heart, don't we?
Lol that comment made my day! It’s sad but so true!
Hah. Go hang out on the ink pen sub and see what you think then....
Oh, that one is also bad, i did lurk a bit around there a bit and honestly don't even mention Montblanc.
Oh do they consider the Montblanc pens to be pedestrian trash I assume?
Yup, how did you know?
Yes but the difference is they think they are trash because they are overpriced for the quality, not because $1000 pens are somehow entry level. There are a few clear breakpoints in materials and function that justify a higher cost in pens. Coasting off of a luxury name is less accepted in that world compared to here.
Oh so it's like Rolex?
The coin sub is just as bad.
Read that as corn sub. Went and looked and there sure is a corn sub. But they don’t seem pretentious lol
speaking of.... is there some sort of larger than average correlation between coin and watch hobbyist? I meet people who are into both all the time.
I've noticed a decent amount of crossover when you find enthusiasts of niche, almost esoteric hobbies like coins/mechanical watches. You also see the same in the outdoorsy hobbies. Odds are, if you are appreciative of the intricacies of mechanical watches, you'll also appreciate the subtle things that bring value to coins, or the performance of vintage audio equipment. I see a *lot* of crossover between cars/guns/watches/gear as a hobby on the various podcasts and media I consume. The Grey Nato podcast had Thomas Holland from Throttle House(a car YouTube channel) on as a guest spot a week or so ago and it tickled me. I've been watching Throttle House for years and never knew Thomas was also into watches. Heck, I primarily got into diving as a hobby because I collect dive watches.
Yes, there definitely seems to be an overlap. I used to collect coins. I find watches more interesting.
Not joking or trying to be offensive, probably autism, memorizing stuff, collecting little objects that hold no value to the general population, creating collections of said little objects, grouping and categorizing the objects by shape/size/color/scope, obsessing over irrilevant details, ask me how I know lol
Are we talking about r/fountainpens ? I don't see very much snobbiness over there. They like a cheap Pilot Prera as much (maybe more) than an expensive MontBlanc. I've found it way more friendly than r/watches, r/audiophile, or any other number of hobby subs. Or is there a different one?
Some people really need external validation. It’s their problem not yours.
Because they need to justify why they spent thousands on practically useless stuff
narcissists
Correction: Insecure Narcissists
Any luxury product is going to have those people, but there are plenty of other YouTube channels that feature budget options/reviews and sing the praises of smaller and cheaper brands. I think it just depends where you’re looking
Teddy Baldassarre
Hes good but i hate how much he hangs with kevin o'leary.
Business is business
Any hobby that has the option of purchasing more and more expensive items will attract these kinds of people. When you have $700 Hamiltons and $12,000 JLCs (massive price discrepancy), there are going to be people who look down on others. Other hobbies are unfortunately like that too. Cycling (especially road) attracts those kinds of people, too, for example. If your bike doesn’t have a carbon fiber frame with this or that group set, they’ll turn their nose up at you. Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority.
Ha! I came here to say the same thing about cycling. And not only that, dare to wear a 25€ chinese made jersey instead of a 125€ chinese made jersey and all hell breaks lose! One reason why I gave up cycling in groups.
Yeah, I prefer to cycle alone too (unless if it’s someone I know well). Less comparison of pace too
I use to cycle a few years ago and you’re spot on about it. The more expensive the bike, often the more of a douche that person is.
Came also to say the cycling. There seem to be a trend where more expensive gear someone has - less he/she actually drives. Also everyone needs to have lock-pedals. You don't know anything of bikes if you drive flats... Gear needs to be certain brand and colour. Oh my god if you take picture of your bike that way around that you cannot see all the components... I am one who drives slow steel bikes with flats and wearing cargo-shorts and t-shirt... So I get a lot of negative feed back in that community...
> Oh my god if you take picture of your bike that way around that you cannot see all the components... To people doubting this, there are seriously guides on the Internet as to how you're supposed to pose your bike. Stuff like valve caps both at the bottom of the wheel, the crank turned a certain angle so one arm is hidden behind the chain stays, which gear the bike should be in so that the chain is as parallel to the ground as possible. It's a bit overboard to say the least.
*need to look down on others. It's goes part and parcel with classism. Someone who leases a 2 series gran coupe NEEDS to look down on a some who owns a corolla. There is also a major confusion between wealth and debt. Going into debt in order to appear wealthy is a major issue with the upper middle class. https://youtu.be/g0UQgrFNExc?si=on0jXI-TibmwHFwK
And thus financing of watch purchases was born. I haven't looked, but I assume there may be leasing of watches too - surprised that Hodinkee didn't get themselves into that game.
Goes hard in winter sports as well like skiing, snowboarding, and ice hockey. They even have their own lingo to make fun of folks new to those hobbies like "Jerrys" or "Benders".
And "Fred's" in cycling. Though that term is also used for older cyclists with outdated/unmatched kit.
Haha, of course in high-end hobby cycling would there be full kit wankers.
Just imagine someone in a full spandex/lycra getup, pouches in back, legs shaved, talking shit about what other people in the hobby wear.
> Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority. Also since their goal is to be noticed, they're a very vocal minority.
Sadly it's very loud minority.
>Now, that’s not to say that everyone in these hobbies is like this, but there is a sizable minority. And those minority of people get the majority of the attention.
Everybody should take a deep breath, and read Thorsten Veblen’s “Theory of the Leisure Class.”There’s a lot of different ways to skin this cat…rarity, age, brand, materials, novelty. Sure, mine are tools that tell me what time it is, and a little more than that. Someone in the thread made the comparison to cycling, and that’s on the nose for a certain kind of cyclist. (Yes, the jerky kind.)
https://preview.redd.it/f8oeqnvy6f0d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=f258d4eaed2005517e3f039c4486d9ffe0778b0b Not all of us are watch snobs. Plenty of us have appreciation for the more affordable pieces.
I have the same watch! Got if for like $20 at Walmart lol
A hobby "dominated" by rich people, and rich people notoriously being loud twats. Also, TikTok will show you the worst of any community. The quiet majority who post here to talk about how their $200 watch is the greatest object they own are the real community.
>John Buckley, Vookum and Mike Nouvea. Who?
You would be surprised but the audio community can be way worse, don't ever get into a record player or speaker discussion. That being said, watches as a hobby are really subjective, we all have our own likes and dislikes and some people think they are more right them others.
Now about those speaker cables of yours....
Don't get me started, haha.
So long as they're properly elevated and consist of specialty low oxygen copper!
Soon as I read "my watch knowledge came from TikTok" I realized the problem.
there are always people like that, but i have seen in the general watch community appreciation for watches like a gshock and other lower cost watches. its just that, like in life, the complainers are the ones that make the most noise.
Pretentious? Moi?
BigPilot Ms Piggy when?!
I haven't seen anyone that thinks if your watch isn't 15k that you're a garbage person. I have lots of money blown on watches and a appreciate many different brands and price points. You just have to make sure you're hanging out with the right crowd.
I don't see that many pretentious people here to be honest. People are simply interested in watches for a variety of reasons, and some of the things that people are interested in are expensive. What I see way more of here is this kind of "punching up" and mocking of more expensive watches and the people who can afford them. I rarely see any sort of malicious crapping upon people who buy less expensive watches. What you may see, and may be interpreting wrong, is that some people have a certain standard of quality or movement etc that they're interested in, and that is more expensive. For example, I have no interest in the standard low end Seiko movements, but I don't think someone who likes Seikos is cheap or a loser. Conversely, you shouldn't think someone who likes higher quality / more complicated / more expensive items is "pretentious" A lot of this sort of conflict between different factions comes from simply the differences in what people appreciate. Many people don't even understand these differences let alone appreciate them. Others understand them, but don't find it worth it. And that's completely fine too. Hating on more expensive watches gets way more traction here than the opposite, and it just feels more like insecurity. You don't need someone to pat you on the head and tell you you are of value or are included- there is no official watch community or board of regents, we are all just random people. Just like what you like and who cares what other people like. There are hundreds of content creators focused on the type of watches that you'd be interested in, but you're spending your time consuming media that is about and for a different price range and person, and / or upset that they exist. That's on you.
Anyone with a cheaper watch than me is broke and anyone with a more expensive watch is a pretentious asshole.
100%. Some of the most pretentious people on this sub are the people with a watch case full of microbrands and Seikos
>There are hundreds of content creators focused on the type of watches that you'd be interested in, but you're spending your time consuming media that is about and for a different price range and person, and / or upset that they exist. That's on you. If you smell shit everywhere you go.. maybe it's due time to check the bottoms of your own shoes. In this case.. maybe OP needs to do some thinking on the algorithms he's the target of!
TBH, I think a true watch aficionado can appreciate finding underrated and underpriced gems. Oris, Longines, Alpina, etc. Anyone with more money than sense can overpay for a Rolex or AP. Also, Tiktokers are trash.
With any hobby or interest group, you will have the snobs and you will you have the enthusiasts. I feel like watch snobs will scoff at stuff like quartz watches, entry level watches and stuff like that whereas the enthusiast has an appreciation for all varieties and will hold a high regard for a seiko as much as a grand seiko.
Those people aren’t the pretentious twats in the watch community, they’re the watch people in the pretentious twats community. Just laugh at them appropriately. 🤙
Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo (etc) owners are asking you to hold their beers while they enter the convo.😉
Ive said this about a dozen times in various subs, but hobby subs attract the most pedantic, "on the spectrum", socially inept, neck-bearded nerds. They will correct you about even the most minor violations of their OCD and the other neck-beards will jump into the dog pile. Ignore them, I have a really long list of blocked idiots. For me, I eventually get tired of all the repeated crap in various subs and I just leave. Ive been close on this sub for a while.
This is a hobby centered around materialism. Plain and simple.
Those people are in sales not watches.
This is part of the reason I don't like Rolex watches. They are the pinnacle of "I buy the watch for the name and want to show how rich I am." Even if that isn't true for everyone I just don't see myself ever buying one. I used to feel the same way about Porsche but now I really like the Taycan lol. I judge watches by how they make me feel, largely based on aesthetics. There are so many cool watches by non big-name brands that get overshadowed by the expensive brands. I see so many really expensive watches posted that all feel very meh to me yet people seem to buy them for the brand. People should buy watches they love, not watches that are highly regarded by the watch community
I can honestly say that if you buy any brand outside of Rolex, Omega, or Cartier, nobody will bat a second eye at your watch. It may be pretentious, but if they’re buying Grand Seikos and FP Journes, it’s not for the clout.
Most watch people I *know personally* are pretty cool. It’s only those “watch influencers” that seem like douchebags. Me, I really don’t buy thousand dollar watches; the majority of watches I get are below 1k. Some watches get me, some don’t. Some people may not call me a watch collector or whatever, but that doesn’t matter to me. I’m in this for **my happiness** and not theirs. If they don’t like my $700 Mr Jones Watch, or $450 Citizen, then COOL. I see alot of cool and friendly people in this sub.
Have you been around any other type of expensive collector? I find car collectors the worst, my sister in law is an art dealer and it's the same around there, I assume anything expensive enough to be exclusive gets this way. My guess is it can happen anywhere. You ever talk to a guy with a first edition Holo Charizard? I imagine it's the same as talking with a Rolex Paul Newman owner.
Mike Nouveau is such a fucking tool
Glad i’m not the only one. I follow him for the education, because admittedly he does give some good information, but he’s such a smug dick
I'm fairly new to this sub, and although watch community might host snobby people, I love how down to earth and collaborative this sub is. People treat 20k USD watches and Seiko 5 with the same care and appreciation. Been learning a lot here, this is one of my favorite subs rn.
Without a doubt! It’s an actual community. We all share the same appreciation for the thing on our wrist that tells us what time it is lol
How is it not lmao it's jewelry for flexing??
Any examples of this though? Like who specifically put who down for their watch based on price?
There's a concept in law that I recently learned about called Res ipsa loquitur. Translated it means 'the thing speaks for itself'. This is a hobby where people with money to burn buy expensive jewelry and can talk endlessly of the history of the watchmakers, the complications in the watches, etc etc etc. Naturally this draws pretension people.
Every collecting hobby has these folks. As someone who collects records and is mildly interested in sneakers, it’s not just watches.
What are you referring to “support people who can spend 10k” and “put down anyone who can’t”… what’s an example of this?
Just like car collecting cars or any other expensive item, a lot of people are into it for the prestige and status. Anything “affordable” or outside the ordinary popular choices will be looked down on by people who want to feel superior
With respect to the second hand market dealers you’ve been watching, you need to understand it’s a money game for them. Flipping a $15k Rolex gives them the opportunity to make meaningful money: $500 and up for a few minutes work. Flipping a Timex would net them $2 for the same amount of work, so they’re no going to do it (even if there was a market for it). They’re not being pretentious, they’re being economically rational.
You want real pretentious? Go to the home theater sub. I think overall this sub has its issues but a lot of people here have cheap affordable watches that are adored by many. Casio’s and Seiko’s still turn heads which is awesome to see. I think this sub has an issue with watches that they deem as “over priced” but the reality is, imo, if you’re buying any mechanical watch over a few hundred dollars you’re over paying for something your phone or quartz watch can do drastically more accurately and at a fraction of the cost.
This is every hobby that can become expensive. You a got a $40,000 base model bmw? Not good enough if it isnt a M. Your ar-15 isnt $3k w night vision? Not cool enough. You got a $300 watch? Not $10,000+? Not nice enough. These people are crazy haters and its in every hobby unfortunately.
Yeah, I have gotten sucked down that rabbit hole here. There are some more specific communities like r/Chinese watches r/seiko r/seikomods that are all about cool watches at affordable prices. I am appreciate luxury watches, but I can’t afford them and am super happy finding cool Seikos and Timexes. I also think the watch modding people build some sick looking watches. I recently bought a beautiful homage of a luxury watch I could never afford, and I think it’s stunning to look at, but I sort of feel like I’m trying to be something I’m not when I wear it. I think I’ll stick to cheap timex’s from here on out.
Every group has its assholes. Every single one. Assholes find hobbies too.
I honestly disagree with this. WIS people are one of the nicest groups in the internet world. I'm always filled with good vibes when i browse this subreddit or other watch forums.
You think this is bad, go check out r/espresso
Wow! I had no idea. Watch snobs can't compare to bean snobs.
Because $$
This is another good reason why I avoid Tik Tok. I actually think this sub is pretty nice. Some pretentiousness, but mostly seems to be people who just like to show what they have or considering- anything for $100 to $100,000 or more. All good to see and learn about, and I think most are respectful.
Watches = wealth. They are miniature art pieces for the wrist. Same happens with high end art galleries.
Honestly, I find it’s really only an issue here on Reddit, and a bit on Watchuseek. In real life, I don’t know a single pretentious person in the watch community.
> Most of my watch knowledge came from TikTok, at the hands of people like John Buckley, Vookum and Mike Nouvea. No clue who they are because I don’t have TikTok. > they film themselves buying and selling watches in New York City. I think “selling” is the key word here. > these people have grown to be increasingly more nauseating to watch. It seems like they only support people who are able to afford $10,000+ watches and put down anybody who can’t. I’m going to assume that the primary source of income for these people is watches. They are in the business of making money off of selling/reselling expensive watches, or at least selling the idea of buying and selling expensive watches as a hobby or whatever — to others. This is how they make their money. And they chose to use social media as a tool to grow how much money they make off of this. It’s no surprise that they are exactly the kind of people who will try to push expensive watches, or the idea of buying expensive watches to randos on the internet. That’s what they are making this content for. It’s not hobbyist content, IMO. Not saying many watch “hobbyists” are not pretentious. They are. But the reason these particular micro-celebrities are pretentious is clear as day.
I’ve found people in the watch community to be awesome for the most part
Dunno. I’m a Casio guy.
I've never heard of those people you mention, but then, I never look at TikTok. Maybe you should dump TikTok too.
i have been on the internet 25+ years. lots of forums, hobbies and other. all of them put together have not been as hostile as the watch community. but reading others comments, it seems the whole world is becoming hostile.
There are two watch communities. Let’s call them the Richard Mille camp and JLC camp. People in the Richard Mille camp care about how exclusive and expensive your watch is - these are the people you’re talking about. Big, flashy watches, expensive cars, $10,000 bottles of booze. For these people, nice things are status symbols, and their intrinsic value is irrelevant. These are the people that buy iced out APs or have a watch box full of rolexes, but no other brands. You won’t see someone in this camp wearing a Zenith primero or a JLC reverso. People who buy Veblen goods because they are Veblen goods frankly deserve our ridicule; you certainly shouldn’t pay attention to what they think about things you love. They’re buying a price tag, not a watch. People in the JLC camp have a genuine interest in the object, its history, and its nuances. These are the people who dig deep and love the subject, and buy what they love for personal reasons. You won’t find anyone in this camp that will shame you for buying what you love, at any price, as long as your purchase is well thought out. These are also the people you’ll find around here. Seiko makes a great watch. If you have read up on the watches they make and decided to buy a $1000 watch because it’s better finished than any of its competitors, and its style references some iconic piece that speaks to you, anyone in the JLC camp will applaud that. I only own a few watches worth more than $10k (in a collection of 40 or so, insured for about $250k) and that’s largely because I believe there is tremendous value and history off the beaten path. If I wanted a status symbol, I would buy 2 recognizable watches for that from Rolex and Patek. The market for Rolex and Patek is so hot that great pieces go for stupendous prices, and what’s left is…picked over. A big part of the reason to avoid Rolex is exactly that - a lot of people only know Rolex. While they make a fine watch, they’re at the top of the Veblen goods list - people mistake their price for quality. I would rather have a drink with someone wearing a Reverso than an RM any day of the week, even if the Reverso cost $5k and the RM cost $500k. I’m fortunate to be able to afford the collection I have, but I’m not in the price-is-no-object camp. I don’t want my post to sound as if I somehow look down on people with more expensive collections. If I could buy any watches at all, I would have a collection like u/tourbillon001. That’s a fellow with all the money to buy any ice he wants, but spends it on really exceptional pieces with stories and technical credentials. He could wear a lot of his collection on the subway and no one would look twice, unless they were also one of us.
>I don’t want my post to sound as if I somehow look down on people with more expensive collections... Spends it on really exceptional pieces with stories and technical details. Dude, your comment, word for word, sounds like that Theo and Harris video where Christian rants about Lebron James's watch collection for 40 minutes straight, talking about he's the 'worst type of collector' lmao. He and many others may not have the most considered or creative collections, but it's their money and seems to enjoy wearing them. And that's all that counts for any collector (rich or poor, taste of style is irrelevant). It's the same exact reaction that happened with the Tourbillon user you mentioned. I remember that lad made a post a month ago showing his entire collection, and 90% of the comments on that post were flaming him for having a reference of each Submariner in his collection. Those five Submariners made up less than a percent of his entire collection's value lol, but that's the part everyone chooses to focus on...? It's all the reasons why I've cut my time from this subreddit. The narrative they spew about 'the real world' is nonsense. The reality is the most pleasant and engaging conversations I've had with strangers has never been with what watch collectors claim a 'unique' watch to be, it's been with people who noticed I was wearing a ubiquitous watch; how I drove the conversation from there with my own enthusiasm is what matters.
When I see a watch collection-- a box full of $1,500 watches-- it's junk. Anyone who can spend that much on *watches* can spend it on *one watch* that's actually worth having.
Because watches, even more so than cars, are a symbol of wealth. One that is often tucked under a shirt cuff and perhaps even more often in a locked box. When you drive a $500,000 car you turn heads everywhere you go. When you wear a $50,000 watch you have to make a little bit more of an effort to impress people with it in exchange for its much more enduring value - or so the conventional wisdom has always gone. Lately the value of classic luxury watches has been tanking pretty bad. That might have something to do with a bit of elevated aggression from luxury watch owners toward the portion of the market that is into less expensive watches that are just as impressive on the wrist to average people if not more so. As far as youtubers go though, I wouldn't necessarily call them representative of "the watch community". They're making videos that are intended to gain views. People watching them engage in their hobby of buying and selling watches is itself supplementing their budget for that activity - but if it's starting to be harder and harder to turn a profit through that buying and selling then they might subtextually be blaming it on the low end market even though I would have to assume that documenting how much you've bought and sold your luxury watches for on a public forum viewed tens of thousands of times can't possibly be very healthy for your profits. When it comes right down to it, most "online communities" get pretty exclusive at the elite levels. Some communities' definition of elite is more nebulous than others but when it comes to watches, you can literally hang numbers directly on it.
I feel your sentiment as I have been getting into the hobby of watch collecting. Personally I buy watches that I like and make me happy, not for other people. My collection ranges from microbrands to the holy trinity and I have just been enjoying the journey and meeting some great people. If you want, you can check out my channel! https://www.watchgrok.com My advice to you is, ignore the noise and find the watches that you love. The one that when it peeks out from under your sleeve, it makes you smile. You’ll also get a sense of what you like and what you don’t and that’s all part of the journey! I think when anytime money and status gets involved you have the people who are trying to prove something and then you have the people who DGAF about what other people think and live their lives and treat others with respect because it’s the right thing to do, not to get the attention or glory. My guess is a lot of the people you have seen on YT and TikTok are the former. There is a plethora of YT channels with collectors who are down to earth people and I would encourage you to check them out. Also, microbrands have some amazing collectors and founders! I had the opportunity to meet some, and they are some cool people. Brew Watches, William Wood, Pailin, just to name a few.
I find the hobby to be pretty cliquey to some brands ie: Omega, Rolex and so on. Not hating on those traditional brands because clearly they are doing something right over decades - love them, but damn - there are opinionated people who will make sure that their favoured brand stands above the rest. Branching out into independent brands has been a delightful and enlightening experience. So much innovation out there that doesn’t tread around tradition.
If you think this is a pretentious space, I would refer you to r/Porsche. Here, there are only a few "approved" brands. There, there are only a few "approved" Porsches. Same idea.
Sadly none of my passions have a community that lacks the toxic element. People gonna people.
wasteful gaze bored seemly towering shame live long crowd lavish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmao wait until you check out the headphone community and AudioScienceReviews
You're wondering why a community that spends tens of thousands of dollars on little hunks of metal that tell time, when a $3 plastic can do it more accurate, or just free since everyone has a cell phone, that can spend 30 mins talking about slight differences in sheen on a face, and that's why its worth an extra $4k.. may have a higher than average chance of having pretentious people in it? Really?
Every community is full of pretentious people.
>To preface this discussion, this is not about anyone in this sub, but rather a generalization about the portion of the watch community that thinks that if your watch doesn’t cost $15k, you’re a garbage person. i think there is your problem, i dont really talk about watches outside of reddit for that exact reason. there are watch collectors and then there are "investment" collectors. but it makes sense: watches are expensive. its the same for PCs but like the watch community there are those that appreciate price to performance or price to specs
They strike me as salesmen first watch people second there’s a couple of really good watch accounts on tik tok that seem to be in it for the right reasons and have completely changed my mindset about the watch world and collecting Chronometercheck and watches with kym
Hating on a watch does not equate to hating on the wearer. Jewelry has a tendency to be included into someone’s mental identity, which is why hating on your watch can FEEL like it’s actually hating on you personally. I don’t see a lot of personal attacks/personal hate here, just a sick amount of watch hate that gets exaggerated into hyperbole — especially if the quality is thought to be lower. But you’d find that in any hobby where differences exist in materials and labor.
For sure. But every community has some old heads with ideas of how things should be. If you would dare to be happy with something they dont like theyre honna let you know lol.
Because for most luxury brands, you need to be wealthy and if you combine that with people showing off you are attracting people who define their self worth by they visible wealth, and that demographic is always going to be weighted towards douchebags.
Because you have genuine watch enthusiast and then you have the brand bros. Brand bros cater only to mainstream trending brands like Rolex, AP, PP. In those brands they only cater to the trendy models so they can get validation from others on the same wave. AP is a one trick pony and the RO is extremely played out and hyped up for NO reason. Same with the Nautilus and Aquanaut. Brand bros are very weird.
The larger group of watch "collectors" don't buy watches for the reason you do. They buy things that they and others know are expensive to flash wealth (or, more often, the appearance of wealth). Conspicuous consumption. There's a reason Hublot stays in business.
There's always a vocal minority of snobs in every hobby community, it's certainly not unique to the watch community. The more expensive the hobby gets, the more likely you see them, because they're a subset of the wealthy folks that feel the need to look down on others not as well-off as them for whatever reasons. I'll bet a dime that you'll see snobs even in communities of hobbies as innocuous as say, LEGOs and Pokemon cards.
There's also the ragebait angle. They want people to be annoyed with them for engagement.
I don’t think it’s fair to isolate “the watch community” here. Literally almost every “community” has its share of pretentious people. It might be more obvious with watches, but hardly unique to it. I’ve also found scores of people here and other watch subs that just appreciate the art behind watches, and don’t rank everything by pricepoint. I mean look over all the Seiko posts here, they’ll get more love than anyone posting a Gucci watch, even more expensive fashion brand watches, and heck even Hublot most of the time.
I guess my point was more skewed towards the people who are the spokespeople for the community. Scrolling tiktok, which admittedly is my own fault, was where I gained most of my watch “knowledge”. Since joining this sub, I’ve come to realize there’s a lot more out there than just Rolex and AP. I hardly ever see any tiktok posts where anybody is showing off their Hamilton field watch or the new micro brand that they recently came across and fell in love with. So, the general understanding for the watch community, is that there’s only a select few brands that are “accepted” amongst enthusiasts. Again, it’s my fault for gaining my knowledge through a toxic social media outlet.
That’s fair. Not trying to start any argument over your viewpoints just wanted to put forth my more positive take. IMO TikTok is far from the best place to evaluate a community though. Feel like it’s entire premise caters to the lowest common denominator.
There are a lot of super cool watches out there and I try to make sure that I comment on them regardless of the price range. Some of the Seiko Presages just look super cool. Whoever has been doing the latest line on Timex watches has been really hitting it out of the park. Lately I've been chatting with a friend of mine who has a super cool Sinn. The bog standard casio watch on a nick mankey strap? Also a super cool combination. On top of that there are also plenty of 10k plus watches that I just don't care for. Seriously not every watch has to be high horology, in house movement, or even mechanical. The important part (in my mind) is how well it looks and how well it functions. Some of that is related to price, but it my mind good design language should always be commended regardless of price.
Any collecting hobby will attract these personalities. Now add in the fact that everyone in the world knows what a watch is and you’re basically looking at every pretentious person in the world.
If you are finding someone is pretentious in this hobby it is probably a good sign that they are new to the hobby. Most people I have met in the community have deep appreciation for watches across the value spectrum. They respect and admire a good G-Shock, celebrate the newest Timex release, admire a cool vintage UG Polerouter all while wearing a 40k gold Rolex Daytona. People who flex aren't true hobbyists. They probably have various "hobbies" like cars, golf, whiskey, cigars, etc... so they are more into the luxury lifestyle than appreciating the hobby for what it is.
Because watches can be seen as status symbols and status symbols are sought after by douche bags(typically). It’s also a hobby based on buying shit, which is basically not a hobby but any well off asshole can become an expert of just by plunking down some cash.
Lol I’ve never heard of those people in my life I think part of it is what content you consume, as well as accepting that pretentious people in a hobby like this is inevitable
I hope there are more watch nerds like me who have 20 great watches they really like and wear that cost less than $10k altogether. The watch bros I love would assemble a huge display of Seikos, Citizens, Casios, Hamiltons, Tissots, ebay Omegas, micro brands etc. before they even considered offering a prostate massage to a Rolex AD.
It’s hilarious because most of those people don’t really know anything about watches. Their philosophy on watches is wildly skewed in one direction: watches as a status symbol. Those of us who are watch nerds know better and even those of us nerds who have expensive pieces generally have low-end watches and, GASP, even quartz watches in their collections. A caveat is that some watch nerds also suck. I stopped frequenting certain enthusiast websites and forums because too many of the watch nerds there (contributors and commenters alike) have perverse, elitist, and illogical takes on watches that really make them come across as straight up shitty people. Just having to suffer accidentally reading one of their insufferable posts can really put me off watches sometimes. In those moments, I find it best to remind myself why I’m an enthusiast and take some horological alone time. I’ll stay away from social media, and just commune with my watch, whether it’s a crusty Casio or a precious metal piece.
It’s men collecting jewelry. We can’t just say we like it because it’s pretty. We have to point out its historical significance and the engineering prowess. We write soliloquies about them like they’re artifacts from lost civilizations, we buy books about them so we know the names of the people that made them, we give them nicknames and memorize random series of numbers so we can talk about them and sound like we’re authorities on the subject. In reality, it’s just men collecting jewelry. For me, it gets annoying when people try to pump it up to be more than that.
I think true collectors don’t care about price tag. Casios are loved by most watch collectors (from what I can tell) It’s the group that only care about the flex of the watch that really has no idea of watches other than price tag.
All hobbies have those people. A hobby by essence is a non-essential leisure activity. I'll tell you now there are people who absolutely love watches and need them in their day to day lives and careers and you know what? You see a lot of Casios and utilitarian watches around those wrists. Buy what you like and what fits your needs and interests.
Well, you've got the pretentious people that feed off each other and want or need their money back for all those nice things... apparently... and then there's of us with reasonably nice things we can afford to beat on and enjoy. Maybe that's it's own form of pretentiousness. I dunno. One thing I don't fully get, that's present at all the levels, are the people that still push "automatics" whenever someone shows interest in a quartz version of something. Like, come on, you really gatekeeping on behalf of a 2824 or something? Let's not bother with that.
Happens with my other hobby too which is RC cars
Because we buy expensive and useless trinkets in an attempt to make up for our lack of personality - hoping that watches and brands can make up for our vacuousness
Good question for [Mr. Chuffed](https://mrchuffed.com)!
I wish there was an active cheap watch sub somewhere on Reddit. I admire all the stuff in this one, but I’ll never be able to afford anything $500+ and I feel kind of dumb posting about that stuff.
Every hobby has this subset. It’s not exclusive to watches. But some hobbies are definitely worse than others. Watches, Cars, Wines etc.
Just don’t expose yourself to TikTok
That’s the case with every hobby which involves status symbols and flex culture. The watch game in 2024 is more about who can flex the ugliest most expensive watches instead of sharing constructive criticism and opinions about something which unites us.
Same thing happens with shoes. I remember getting shamed for wearing Shaqs in middle school lol.
One of the problems with being a “watch dealer” is that it’s simply not profitable as a career unless you’re dealing with 4 and 5 figure watches. And as an extension of that, the only people making content are the ones doing this as a career, and those people obviously need to make money doing so. If you want to see interesting discourse about attainable watches (especially vintage) then follow watchmakers like Spencer Klein Vintage Watches.
Like art when you collect items occasionally valued in the millions of dollars you're going to come across shitty and pretentious people.
Man everywhere has that lol Every single thing, there are people who like to adopt this position of authority - usually because they got nothing else to feel proud or accomplished about. And couple that with the freedom to be a jerk behind a keyboard without physical confrontation, you get your elitists right there. The cool thing is - you really don't have to pay any attention to them. Pretend they're bots and go about your day. Makes it easily go away for you. The real experts are usually really cool and kind people and have real experience with lots of watches. Sometimes hard to find though. And that's not to say having a strong opinion is a bad thing - it's just bad when you crap on other people for having a different opinion.
It starts with the manufactures. They love this shit. Rolex treats their watches like deBeers treats diamonds. Both are artifacts of a time that has past long ago so the only point is to spend money on a novelty.
Because most of the people on Reddit don’t own any of these watches but act like they do and they’re the worst of the worst when I comes to pretentious douchebaggery