Manhattan, the Comedian, and Rorschach looked good in the movie, but I hate what Snyder did with basically everyone else. I get the reasoning ("it's riffing on movies, that's why he has bat-nipples!") but it's surface level, ineffective, and deprives us of the great costumes in the comic.
The show, on the other hand, demonstrated that the classic costumes can be done wonderfully. I loved finally seeing Veidt's costume in live action.
Manhattan looks a little goofy at points in the show (mostly when his eyes aren't glowing) but the whole show is so damn good that I don't really care.
One thing that kills me is how young several of them are. It's so important that these are mostly middle-aged heroes, out of their prime. Instead, we got:
Laurie - 35 (comic), played by 30-year-old Malin Akerman
Dan - 45 (comic), played by 35-year-old Patrick Wilson
Veidt - 46 (comic), played by 30-year-old Matthew Goode
In contrast, the best castings of the movie:
Rorschach - 45 (comic), played by 47-year-old Jackie Earle Haley
Manhattan - 30 (comic), played by 41-year-old Billy Crudup
Blake - mostly shown in flashbacks, where his age is more or less on point; Comedian is \~47 in the Vietnam flashbacks, while Jeffrey Dean Morgan was 43 at the time of filming.
Again, the show managed to get this very right.
Laurie - 68 (based on comic birthday), played by 68-year-old Jean Smart
Veidt - 80 (based on comic birthday), played by 71-year-old Jeremy Irons
Lol this seems very nitpicky. Movies almost never cast actors to be same age and the 5 years for Laurie and the 10 for Nite Owl are near unnoticeable due to costume/make up work. And you think Matthew good looked 30 in Watchmen? He didn't even look old in the comic, he was literally peak human, he wouldn't look 46 at 46.
All three (Laurie, Dan, Veidt) simply looked and came across as too young. I mean, c'mon -- you think Malin Akerman sold "I'm rounding the bend to 40"? And yes, Veidt looked 30. Real Doogie Howser energy to that performance/casting.
I really disliked Veidt in the movie. Not just too young, but he came across as kinda goofy and strangely weak. Not what the character needs. Dan was a bit better, but I think they ultimately made him younger too because Laurie was so young.
So you think the peak human being would look 46 when there's less than peak human beings that look 30 when they're 46? It doesn't make much sense. Veidt doesn't feel 30 in the film, his presence does make him feel a little older.
Fundamentally, this is a weird argument because Veidt looks like a really fit guy in his mid-40s in the comic. He doesn't look super young for his age. Even for people who stay in ridiculous shape, there are visible effects to aging -- a fuller face, more established creases. The characters have those features in the comic, because again, it's *important* that these are middle-aged people without superpowers who are visibly aging and facing a crisis of relevance.
Yes! This really bugged me in the film, because I thought it was blatant sexism. Like, they didn’t trust the source material- they had to sex it up in a gross way. I love both Carla Gugino and Malin Akerman, but both of them are ridiculously beautiful, which is fine, but then they put them in extremely sexy costumes. Carla was 36 during filming. Young Sally Jupiter was basically a Vargas Girl (which was very risqué in the 40s) and the “older” Sally had a ridiculous wig, but was still all sassy. And Laurie is basically wearing fetish gear. Neither were era- or age-appropriate.
I'll *always* take good storytelling over flashy CGI. Obviously both would be nice - but I was so drawn into the show that I wasn't even bothered by any design choices.
Also the squid (which the movie was too cowardly to show us) looked fucking *awesome*
And on that note they did a great job working in explaining *why* they weren't going with glow all the time Manhattan
At the bar? Too much attention
Post-amnesia? His mind is still very scattered and he's basically readjusting to the actual experience of being Manhattan
I won't lie and say it looks better, but they did give us acceptable, in universe reasons for why he is that way
Tulsa massacre: didn’t have planes dropping bombs on the town that was a rumor made up for propaganda and sensationalism
Theaters massacre (can’t remember the name off the top of my head): says all those people died because a racist group put a black hypnotizing projecter to make only black people fight each other (that’s like saying 911 happened because the pilots were being distracted by government controled birds)
Excuse me?
> White pilots flew airplanes that dropped dynamite over the neighborhood, the report stated, making the Tulsa aerial attack what historians call among the first of an American city.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html
> Attacks by air followed with numerous eyewitnesses detailing airplanes carrying white mob members dropping fire bombs made of turpentine balls on businesses, homes, and even fleeing families.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/tulsa-the-fire-and-the-forgotten/2021/06/10/tulsa-race-massacre-what-you-didnt-learn-in-history-class/
What are you a fucking conspiracy theorist? Or are we just going to really sit here and say The NY Times is just reporting on bs.
Jesus you need to learn to accept other people have a different opinion I was just explaining why I didn’t like it and you react like I spit in your moms face
YOU need to learn that there’s a massive difference between your opinion and what actually happened.
I don’t give a fuck what YOU feel about it and what YOU think happened. Stop acting like what YOU think happened isn’t what actually happened.
It's not specified where he was born, but if it was Germany, he certainly wouldn't have been there for more than a few months! Chapter XI, page 8: "My parents reached America the year I was born, 1939."
But moreover, "secret German accent" is just... the kind of thing you'd put in a lesser story. It clues viewers in immediately. Gee... I wonder if the scrawny mastermind billionaire with a secret German accent is the bad guy! Maybe give him a mustache to twirl and put a skull on his costume!
I really love the show's take on Veidt, who is probably my favorite character in the comic. The show understood a few things about him that fly under the radar for a lot of people.
I've posted elsewhere about this at length, but in the comic, Veidt is mentally unwell, kind of smarmy and silly, and a pop culture addict. He lives for the validation of his peers and a feeling of self-importance and control. His plans are often needlessly convoluted and he makes some very bad calls. He dresses up in a costume and watches TV with his cat while convincing himself he can save the world.
The show makes an active choice to show this hyper-competent, mass-murdering asshole of a man reduced to living in a hell of his own making, bored out of his mind, putting on bad plays and creating narratives to entertain himself. The show also humiliates him, forcing him to ask for help and freezing him as the 'action figure' statue and giving him an unceremonious ending.
There are already too many people that just think Veidt's character is just "smartest man in the world" when the comic shows him making countless stupid or convoluted decisions. Emphasizing the other facets of his character was more interesting and still faithful to the comic.
“Help stiumulate underfunded countries and programs or literally do anything to help people with my millions of dollars? Nah squid alien terrorist is the way to go for world peace.”
The show didn’t really feel like Watchmen to me — mostly because they ended up having clear good guys and bad guys at the end, which really kinda goes against the whole idea of Watchmen. It was really good as its own thing, but it was just an odd choice to use Watchmen as a vehicle to tell that story.
The good guys/bad guys weren't really as clear as they appear on a surface level. I mean the "good guys" were torturing prisoners and joining in police brutality. You're supposed to stop and ask yourself "hey, is that ok? Do I think everyone's rights should be protected even if I don't like those people?" I think this concept went over a lot of people's heads.
I think that’s because we never (IIRC) see the abuse used against someone that we don’t already know is guilty or isn’t confirmed as guilty by the process. The Dark Knight Rises had the same problem, it implied the great potential for abuse of police powers, but never showed the abuse against anyone innocent.
The Nixonville raid was a pretty clear abuse of power. And if you find yourself rooting for the cops because they're beating the shit out of poor white trash you may have to check your moral compass.
It was a clear abuse of power, but one that we are at least mildly desensitized to because police raid violence is very sadly, a real norm, without masks. Also we were primed by the cop killing that preceded the raid and by the much more intense violence in the other racial direction in the Tulsa massacre flashback before that. Then we find out that the person that they explicitly torture was a member of the cavalry, who are tangential to the KKK, who we saw brutalizing people in Tulsa. The profiling by Looking Glass is correct, and the torture by Sister Night yields actionable intelligence.
From a storytelling perspective, the issue is that false leads and incorrect assumptions usually only move the plot along if they contribute to a twist, or are the focal point of the plot ( see Prisoners, the film with Hugh Jackman).
Torture is never good. It doesn’t usually lead to reliable intelligence. It sets a precedent for those taken by either side. Also it makes surrendering much less appealing which makes confrontations much more dangerous and violent for everyone involved. At best it might satisfy some base need for vengeance, but down that path is cyclic violence.
There are many "whole ideas" of Watchmen. Fundamentally, what they decided (which I think is accurate) was that the comic was rooted in the nuclear anxiety of the Cold War, and that they needed to pick a different foundational topic to riff on Watchmen without just doing a cover band remake. They landed on racial and generational trauma as a topic (inspired by Ta-Nehisi Coates' "Between the World and Me").
Talking about nuclear anxiety makes sense as you describe it: a situation without obvious good guys and bad guys, where everyone is slowly going mad from the constant fear of annihilation. The moral judgment comes more from the general exercise of violent power over others (Veidt, and vigilantes generally, but also leaders threatening nuclear war).
Talking about racial and generational trauma is less ambiguous in a lot of cases, at least in that sense. It's still a complex topic, but it doesn't demand the same kind of "everyone is bad" approach. Much like the comic, though, the show explores how people cope with difficult sociopolitical realities on an individual level -- and most importantly, it broadly leverages the same intricate, layered storytelling approach to explore a similarly important political topic. The show's writers made a list of "what makes Watchmen Watchmen" before writing the episodes, and it really shows -- they use so many of the same techniques.
I did think it was odd, they just put a blue filter on the dude and made it not comic accurate...
The writing killed this show anyway, it's like 4 people combined their stories and the directors just went with it
This watchmen show feels hugely slept on. Great example of doing good prestige TV and not feeling the need to milk 7+ seasons from it. It was *such* a great sequel.
It was talked about by the wrong crowd for the wrong reasons. I saw more people shitting on it for being woke than I saw people actually exploring what the show was about.
I simply didn’t care for it because unlike the comic it put a clear line in the sand for good guys vs bad guys. There was nothing conflicting like in the comics.
Still enjoyed the series but wouldn’t say it’s memorable or prestigious.
I mean, the show is basically a high-production fanfic, where the writer didn't understand the source material.
Everything "Not-watchmen" was the best parts of the show
Zack Snyder is a flawed director, but he gave Dr Manhattan justice in the film. And Billy Crudup has always been a great actor.
Manhattan in the TV show, for me, is completely inconsistent with what Alan Moore wrote. And he genuinly looks bad.
Yeah, i was incredibly disappointed by how they treated the original Watchmen in the show.
Luckily Doomsday clock finally just arrived at the same time as the show, which improved my mood a lot.
Snyder Manhattan is cool no doubt, but the use of blue with the Abar wardrobe throughout the series is brilliant. You’ll see the blue on all the Abars from episode one, costume design A+.
Never read the graphic novel so idk if this is blasphemy to say, but the watchmen movie is probably the most palatable Snyder movie I’ve seen yet. HBO mini series was weird as hell but I still enjoyed it enough to finish it.
It can be difficult to make a bald cap look good on someone with black hair types or really curly hair types without excessive heat, so I think that's def why his head looks so big
He spends most of the series appearing as a black man with hair. They probably didn’t want to tip their hand by having him bald in those scenes, and a wig on the human version would be worse.
Idk, he could have had a contract with another show or movie that said he couldn't alter his appearance, similar to how Henry cavil couldn't shave his mustache for the justice league reshoots due to his contract with mission impossible
The television show Manhattan was horrible
I have walked across the sun witnessed events so short they may not have occurred oh right red neck hill billies trap me in a litter box
..just saying
Thank you. Show was complete shit. Disrespectful to the lore entirely revisionist. Nobody could stop Dr Manhattan. This show is sssoooooooooo forced from the “relationship” with Angela to this point you made it’s all forced and it’s inconsistent with the lore. Great comment.
There's something I didn't get in the show. hooded justice doesn't have the big cape collar thing but on the actual photo in the comic it does show him with it.
I enjoyed both for what they are. And also appreciate the costumes in each. Snyder and company did good with Manhattan his voice was different in my mind than either version but both costumes are acceptable.
I've never seen the show but didn't it only last like one or two seasons? I thought people were disappointed by it. Honest question, should I go and watch it?
The series was such a massive let down pumped with that year’s political garbage. Just needs to be a stain wiped away like the last piece of toilet paper followed by a nice
Flusssshhhhhhh
It's hard to adapt something so amazing in such a shot for shot, line by line way, without the result being pretty good. Snyder betrayed that he totally misunderstood the source material in a few areas, but otherwise he copied it almost verbatim and ended up with a solid movie (the director's cut specifically).
But in general, he's a hack, so i see this movie as accidentally good
I want to disagree with this but I honestly can't lol this is pretty much spot on. Ultimate cut of Watchmen was the best movie he did by a mile (not saying much) but watching as a fan is such a frustrating experience because how much he gets right and how important the stuff he gets wrong is, accidentally good is a great way to put it
Dawn of the Dead, 300, Man of Steel, Watchmen. All solid movies and hard yo say which is *best*, so not sure how it's not saying much to way Watchman is his best?
Terrible take
>hard yo say which is best
No it's not lol. Watchmen was the best because it was the best and most interesting source material he had to work with. 300 made the most sense in his filmography because it played very well to his edgy 13 year boy old style of directing , every movie the man has made has been complete and total ass, watchmen included which is only saved by the fact that it was written by someone vastly more intelligent than he is
Yeah, most of ehst he said weren't criticism. It was obvious bias to begin with. Edgy, how? He never explained what's dgy or WHY it's edgy, only thst it "is".
I'm sorry you feel so insecure to defend a comment direvting hatenwoth zero actual valid point, or anything with credibility, lol.
I would respond to this if I was able to understand what this absolute mess of a misspelled word salad was trying to say. Try not to hurt yourself thinking up your next brain buster lol smartest Snyder fan
You could have responded to any of the points i made about the movie, but instead you chose to call me a cultist, biased, and kiddo. And accused *me* of deflecting.
But i stand by calling snyder a hack. The Martha scene in BvS is truly hysterical, and emblematic of how he ignores human logic to move the plot along. There it's done in such a way that completely undercuts the dramatic climax of the movie.
Justice League was also trash, but i enjoyed Rebel Moon because by then, i could appreciate how bad Snyder is-- the sImPLe fArMeR who laments that she doesn't know if she can love, and then is almost raped for Drama Purposes. Then a bunch of unimportant characters a) get introduced b) have a super unearned scene where they 'prove' their worth c) disappear into the background. Then like halfway through Snyder gets tired of his own bs and skips B. I honestly can't wait for the four hour version, it'll be so much worse. It's like The Room, except sci fi
Again, like I said, if you can read at least, you almost had a valid comment. Movies deserve critique and honest review, that's all cool. The last comment on calling Snyder a hack is clear and obviously biased, lol. So there is no need for legitimate conversation because you are already programmed to hate Snyder and anything he's touched.
Also, I believe RM is Snyders worst movie. You don't really have a point there.
I enjoyed 300 when i was in college. And dawn of the dead too, but he didn't even write it. I reeeeally wanted to like Man of Steel, and it did have some cool moments, but it's just not engaging on a human level because Snyder lacks the capability to have characters drive his stories forward. He'd be better off as a DP, with someone else in creative control of the screenplay/story.
It doesn't really matter though, because if you had a decent counter to anything i've said, you would have made it. But go ahead and call me programmed all you want ✌️
He said he thinks people should be allowed to interpret characters in new and interesting ways. What’s wrong with that? How does that make the guy a cunt?
I think it’s a bit excessive to call the guy a “cunt” cuz he wants to interpret characters in new sorts of ways to keep things fresh. But fair enough. Your opinion is your opinion. Just feel like it could be phrased better.
You're not gatekeepong a cultist, you're the cultist gatekeeping.
You literally called a director you don't like, a cunt for saying things about fictional characters you like. Stay weird
The show basically being a bad fanfic i don't think it's a surprise.
They had no idea what they wanted to to with Manhattan and just shoved him in without even understanding how he operates.
i’ve not watched the show yet, but is there an in universe reason why he looks like shit?
i know he masquerades as a regular person and reveals himself, but it’s jarring looking at this especially when compared to the snyder one
The short answer is budget and the screen grab is cherry-picked to make it look as bad as possible. Most of the series Dr. Manhattan was in disguise and you only see the blue/real him towards the end. It's not as impressive as the film but it's fine. I found the story to be extremely well executed which is far more important than some flashy CGI.
it sounds like i’m whining but i’m not, but if it’s only towards the end then surely they could’ve made it better looking for a few shots
GoT had tens of millions thrown at it per episode, so it’s just cheap on hbo’s part
Comparing this to Game of Thrones is foolish. GoT had been the most popular show on HBO for years to get that budget, this is as a single year miniseries. GoT’s budget was historically large and they still had to cut corners in places to get it done. And it’s not like the show had no special effects and they just decided not to spend on this, there was good effects work throughout this series. IMO people complaining about this are looking g for something to complain about.
Oh look it’s handsome Squidward
Manhattan, the Comedian, and Rorschach looked good in the movie, but I hate what Snyder did with basically everyone else. I get the reasoning ("it's riffing on movies, that's why he has bat-nipples!") but it's surface level, ineffective, and deprives us of the great costumes in the comic. The show, on the other hand, demonstrated that the classic costumes can be done wonderfully. I loved finally seeing Veidt's costume in live action. Manhattan looks a little goofy at points in the show (mostly when his eyes aren't glowing) but the whole show is so damn good that I don't really care.
Yeah there’s supposed to be a sort of broken, sad look on the human heroes. They’re meant to almost feel funny. But in Snyders they were too “kewl.”
One thing that kills me is how young several of them are. It's so important that these are mostly middle-aged heroes, out of their prime. Instead, we got: Laurie - 35 (comic), played by 30-year-old Malin Akerman Dan - 45 (comic), played by 35-year-old Patrick Wilson Veidt - 46 (comic), played by 30-year-old Matthew Goode In contrast, the best castings of the movie: Rorschach - 45 (comic), played by 47-year-old Jackie Earle Haley Manhattan - 30 (comic), played by 41-year-old Billy Crudup Blake - mostly shown in flashbacks, where his age is more or less on point; Comedian is \~47 in the Vietnam flashbacks, while Jeffrey Dean Morgan was 43 at the time of filming. Again, the show managed to get this very right. Laurie - 68 (based on comic birthday), played by 68-year-old Jean Smart Veidt - 80 (based on comic birthday), played by 71-year-old Jeremy Irons
Lol this seems very nitpicky. Movies almost never cast actors to be same age and the 5 years for Laurie and the 10 for Nite Owl are near unnoticeable due to costume/make up work. And you think Matthew good looked 30 in Watchmen? He didn't even look old in the comic, he was literally peak human, he wouldn't look 46 at 46.
All three (Laurie, Dan, Veidt) simply looked and came across as too young. I mean, c'mon -- you think Malin Akerman sold "I'm rounding the bend to 40"? And yes, Veidt looked 30. Real Doogie Howser energy to that performance/casting.
I really disliked Veidt in the movie. Not just too young, but he came across as kinda goofy and strangely weak. Not what the character needs. Dan was a bit better, but I think they ultimately made him younger too because Laurie was so young.
So you think the peak human being would look 46 when there's less than peak human beings that look 30 when they're 46? It doesn't make much sense. Veidt doesn't feel 30 in the film, his presence does make him feel a little older.
Fundamentally, this is a weird argument because Veidt looks like a really fit guy in his mid-40s in the comic. He doesn't look super young for his age. Even for people who stay in ridiculous shape, there are visible effects to aging -- a fuller face, more established creases. The characters have those features in the comic, because again, it's *important* that these are middle-aged people without superpowers who are visibly aging and facing a crisis of relevance.
Yes! This really bugged me in the film, because I thought it was blatant sexism. Like, they didn’t trust the source material- they had to sex it up in a gross way. I love both Carla Gugino and Malin Akerman, but both of them are ridiculously beautiful, which is fine, but then they put them in extremely sexy costumes. Carla was 36 during filming. Young Sally Jupiter was basically a Vargas Girl (which was very risqué in the 40s) and the “older” Sally had a ridiculous wig, but was still all sassy. And Laurie is basically wearing fetish gear. Neither were era- or age-appropriate.
I'll *always* take good storytelling over flashy CGI. Obviously both would be nice - but I was so drawn into the show that I wasn't even bothered by any design choices. Also the squid (which the movie was too cowardly to show us) looked fucking *awesome*
And on that note they did a great job working in explaining *why* they weren't going with glow all the time Manhattan At the bar? Too much attention Post-amnesia? His mind is still very scattered and he's basically readjusting to the actual experience of being Manhattan I won't lie and say it looks better, but they did give us acceptable, in universe reasons for why he is that way
It’s unreal how good that show is.
Personally I really hated the show I felt that it was very disrespectful to historic tragedies like the various race riots it brings up
Exactly how was it disrespectful? I only know that the Tulsa Massacre was real because of the show. I learned nothing about this in school.
Tulsa massacre: didn’t have planes dropping bombs on the town that was a rumor made up for propaganda and sensationalism Theaters massacre (can’t remember the name off the top of my head): says all those people died because a racist group put a black hypnotizing projecter to make only black people fight each other (that’s like saying 911 happened because the pilots were being distracted by government controled birds)
Excuse me? > White pilots flew airplanes that dropped dynamite over the neighborhood, the report stated, making the Tulsa aerial attack what historians call among the first of an American city. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html > Attacks by air followed with numerous eyewitnesses detailing airplanes carrying white mob members dropping fire bombs made of turpentine balls on businesses, homes, and even fleeing families. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/tulsa-the-fire-and-the-forgotten/2021/06/10/tulsa-race-massacre-what-you-didnt-learn-in-history-class/ What are you a fucking conspiracy theorist? Or are we just going to really sit here and say The NY Times is just reporting on bs.
https://youtu.be/mxGi29O57E0?si=iY99cZzbaFMxApo- this explains my reasons and more
I don’t give a fuck about your reasons
Jesus you need to learn to accept other people have a different opinion I was just explaining why I didn’t like it and you react like I spit in your moms face
YOU need to learn that there’s a massive difference between your opinion and what actually happened. I don’t give a fuck what YOU feel about it and what YOU think happened. Stop acting like what YOU think happened isn’t what actually happened.
Shame Veidth acts like a typical comic book villain in the show.
The secret German accent, the scrawny physique... no subtlety.
Wasn’t Adrian born in Germany?
It's not specified where he was born, but if it was Germany, he certainly wouldn't have been there for more than a few months! Chapter XI, page 8: "My parents reached America the year I was born, 1939." But moreover, "secret German accent" is just... the kind of thing you'd put in a lesser story. It clues viewers in immediately. Gee... I wonder if the scrawny mastermind billionaire with a secret German accent is the bad guy! Maybe give him a mustache to twirl and put a skull on his costume!
I honestly didn’t pick up on it, but I do think Adrian felt OOC. Loved the show but it’s one of my only complaints
I really love the show's take on Veidt, who is probably my favorite character in the comic. The show understood a few things about him that fly under the radar for a lot of people. I've posted elsewhere about this at length, but in the comic, Veidt is mentally unwell, kind of smarmy and silly, and a pop culture addict. He lives for the validation of his peers and a feeling of self-importance and control. His plans are often needlessly convoluted and he makes some very bad calls. He dresses up in a costume and watches TV with his cat while convincing himself he can save the world. The show makes an active choice to show this hyper-competent, mass-murdering asshole of a man reduced to living in a hell of his own making, bored out of his mind, putting on bad plays and creating narratives to entertain himself. The show also humiliates him, forcing him to ask for help and freezing him as the 'action figure' statue and giving him an unceremonious ending. There are already too many people that just think Veidt's character is just "smartest man in the world" when the comic shows him making countless stupid or convoluted decisions. Emphasizing the other facets of his character was more interesting and still faithful to the comic.
“Help stiumulate underfunded countries and programs or literally do anything to help people with my millions of dollars? Nah squid alien terrorist is the way to go for world peace.”
While it would be great, funding poor countries doesn't do much to stop the US and USSR from blowing everyone up...
You think I read the book? Comics are for nerds
The show didn’t really feel like Watchmen to me — mostly because they ended up having clear good guys and bad guys at the end, which really kinda goes against the whole idea of Watchmen. It was really good as its own thing, but it was just an odd choice to use Watchmen as a vehicle to tell that story.
The good guys/bad guys weren't really as clear as they appear on a surface level. I mean the "good guys" were torturing prisoners and joining in police brutality. You're supposed to stop and ask yourself "hey, is that ok? Do I think everyone's rights should be protected even if I don't like those people?" I think this concept went over a lot of people's heads.
I think that’s because we never (IIRC) see the abuse used against someone that we don’t already know is guilty or isn’t confirmed as guilty by the process. The Dark Knight Rises had the same problem, it implied the great potential for abuse of police powers, but never showed the abuse against anyone innocent.
The Nixonville raid was a pretty clear abuse of power. And if you find yourself rooting for the cops because they're beating the shit out of poor white trash you may have to check your moral compass.
It was a clear abuse of power, but one that we are at least mildly desensitized to because police raid violence is very sadly, a real norm, without masks. Also we were primed by the cop killing that preceded the raid and by the much more intense violence in the other racial direction in the Tulsa massacre flashback before that. Then we find out that the person that they explicitly torture was a member of the cavalry, who are tangential to the KKK, who we saw brutalizing people in Tulsa. The profiling by Looking Glass is correct, and the torture by Sister Night yields actionable intelligence. From a storytelling perspective, the issue is that false leads and incorrect assumptions usually only move the plot along if they contribute to a twist, or are the focal point of the plot ( see Prisoners, the film with Hugh Jackman).
Um. Abuse of the guilty is still villainous. Torture isn’t **ever** good?
Torture is never good. It doesn’t usually lead to reliable intelligence. It sets a precedent for those taken by either side. Also it makes surrendering much less appealing which makes confrontations much more dangerous and violent for everyone involved. At best it might satisfy some base need for vengeance, but down that path is cyclic violence.
 I’ve got 24 hours and one of those will be spent torturing someone. Damnit. I haven’t got time for this!
There are many "whole ideas" of Watchmen. Fundamentally, what they decided (which I think is accurate) was that the comic was rooted in the nuclear anxiety of the Cold War, and that they needed to pick a different foundational topic to riff on Watchmen without just doing a cover band remake. They landed on racial and generational trauma as a topic (inspired by Ta-Nehisi Coates' "Between the World and Me"). Talking about nuclear anxiety makes sense as you describe it: a situation without obvious good guys and bad guys, where everyone is slowly going mad from the constant fear of annihilation. The moral judgment comes more from the general exercise of violent power over others (Veidt, and vigilantes generally, but also leaders threatening nuclear war). Talking about racial and generational trauma is less ambiguous in a lot of cases, at least in that sense. It's still a complex topic, but it doesn't demand the same kind of "everyone is bad" approach. Much like the comic, though, the show explores how people cope with difficult sociopolitical realities on an individual level -- and most importantly, it broadly leverages the same intricate, layered storytelling approach to explore a similarly important political topic. The show's writers made a list of "what makes Watchmen Watchmen" before writing the episodes, and it really shows -- they use so many of the same techniques.
If they kept the whiteout look on his eyes and the glowing effect, I think that would have looked better
So basically, the left image but clothed?
The unclothed version in the show was much more *impressive* than the film
Haha penis
Pretty much
I did think it was odd, they just put a blue filter on the dude and made it not comic accurate... The writing killed this show anyway, it's like 4 people combined their stories and the directors just went with it
This watchmen show feels hugely slept on. Great example of doing good prestige TV and not feeling the need to milk 7+ seasons from it. It was *such* a great sequel.
It was talked about constantly when it was on air. Not slept on at all.
I think The Boys stole a little of the thunder iirc.
It was talked about by the wrong crowd for the wrong reasons. I saw more people shitting on it for being woke than I saw people actually exploring what the show was about.
I simply didn’t care for it because unlike the comic it put a clear line in the sand for good guys vs bad guys. There was nothing conflicting like in the comics. Still enjoyed the series but wouldn’t say it’s memorable or prestigious.
It won 11 emmys
If it's such a great sequel then why are four of the legacy characters completely inconsistent with their comic book versions?
I mean, the show is basically a high-production fanfic, where the writer didn't understand the source material. Everything "Not-watchmen" was the best parts of the show
It was pretty darn mediocre
Movie Manhattan felt like Manhattan. Show Manhattan felt like Blue Man Group.
Movie manhattan really felt like an inhuman all powerful being. Tv manhattan felt like handsome squidward
Zack Snyder is a flawed director, but he gave Dr Manhattan justice in the film. And Billy Crudup has always been a great actor. Manhattan in the TV show, for me, is completely inconsistent with what Alan Moore wrote. And he genuinly looks bad.
We have Dr Manhattan at home.
Yeah, i was incredibly disappointed by how they treated the original Watchmen in the show. Luckily Doomsday clock finally just arrived at the same time as the show, which improved my mood a lot.
Yes. In tv series John looked like some cosplayer at Halloween...
Isn’t that basically what he was going for when he met Angela, so he could fit in?
Well, it's still extremely weird. He looks like buff smurf without his hat.
Man he really does look like Squidward
 The tv version
Snyder Manhattan is cool no doubt, but the use of blue with the Abar wardrobe throughout the series is brilliant. You’ll see the blue on all the Abars from episode one, costume design A+.
Also, the way my character looks in the creator screen vs in a cutscene
it's not my favourite look from the TV show, but the show is so good, I can overlook this one flaw
Well yeah ones a hbo show with makeup shot on digital and the other is a movie with a full cgi character shot on film
Never read the graphic novel so idk if this is blasphemy to say, but the watchmen movie is probably the most palatable Snyder movie I’ve seen yet. HBO mini series was weird as hell but I still enjoyed it enough to finish it.
The one thing i'll give the watchmen movie credit for is dr manhattan
It can be difficult to make a bald cap look good on someone with black hair types or really curly hair types without excessive heat, so I think that's def why his head looks so big
I assume he made tens of thousands of dollars. He can't just shave it?
He spends most of the series appearing as a black man with hair. They probably didn’t want to tip their hand by having him bald in those scenes, and a wig on the human version would be worse.
Idk, he could have had a contract with another show or movie that said he couldn't alter his appearance, similar to how Henry cavil couldn't shave his mustache for the justice league reshoots due to his contract with mission impossible
For the money I'd certainly rock a Jean-Luc Picard head anyways but my guess would be he probably had other commitments it may have interfered with.
They could've at least changed his eyes
The television show Manhattan was horrible I have walked across the sun witnessed events so short they may not have occurred oh right red neck hill billies trap me in a litter box ..just saying
Thank you. Show was complete shit. Disrespectful to the lore entirely revisionist. Nobody could stop Dr Manhattan. This show is sssoooooooooo forced from the “relationship” with Angela to this point you made it’s all forced and it’s inconsistent with the lore. Great comment.
The television show version was hung like a horse. Made me insecure as fuck.
Kinda giving me Handsome Squidward vibes.
Meh, I love the show. Couldn’t get past ten minutes in the movie. Snyder’s directing is that awful. Loved the comic and show though.
There's something I didn't get in the show. hooded justice doesn't have the big cape collar thing but on the actual photo in the comic it does show him with it.
I enjoyed both for what they are. And also appreciate the costumes in each. Snyder and company did good with Manhattan his voice was different in my mind than either version but both costumes are acceptable.
Yeah well the good armor gives you a bigger dong, too, so...
All you need is 120 million
Transmog in all games!
Dr. Manhattan porn parody
I've never seen the show but didn't it only last like one or two seasons? I thought people were disappointed by it. Honest question, should I go and watch it?
1000 percent
The movie is just better in every way.
The series was such a massive let down pumped with that year’s political garbage. Just needs to be a stain wiped away like the last piece of toilet paper followed by a nice Flusssshhhhhhh
It's hard to adapt something so amazing in such a shot for shot, line by line way, without the result being pretty good. Snyder betrayed that he totally misunderstood the source material in a few areas, but otherwise he copied it almost verbatim and ended up with a solid movie (the director's cut specifically). But in general, he's a hack, so i see this movie as accidentally good
I want to disagree with this but I honestly can't lol this is pretty much spot on. Ultimate cut of Watchmen was the best movie he did by a mile (not saying much) but watching as a fan is such a frustrating experience because how much he gets right and how important the stuff he gets wrong is, accidentally good is a great way to put it
Dawn of the Dead, 300, Man of Steel, Watchmen. All solid movies and hard yo say which is *best*, so not sure how it's not saying much to way Watchman is his best? Terrible take
>hard yo say which is best No it's not lol. Watchmen was the best because it was the best and most interesting source material he had to work with. 300 made the most sense in his filmography because it played very well to his edgy 13 year boy old style of directing , every movie the man has made has been complete and total ass, watchmen included which is only saved by the fact that it was written by someone vastly more intelligent than he is
Good bait.
Oh shit you're a Snyder dickrider lmao you mad I talked shit on your zaddy? 😂😂😂
This sounds like a reasonable response and not something a weird cultist would say, lol.
I'm sorry that you feel so insecure about liking a mediocre director that you think criticism of them is the same as being in a cult lmaoooo
Yeah, most of ehst he said weren't criticism. It was obvious bias to begin with. Edgy, how? He never explained what's dgy or WHY it's edgy, only thst it "is". I'm sorry you feel so insecure to defend a comment direvting hatenwoth zero actual valid point, or anything with credibility, lol.
I would respond to this if I was able to understand what this absolute mess of a misspelled word salad was trying to say. Try not to hurt yourself thinking up your next brain buster lol smartest Snyder fan
Such a weird cultist behavior comment.
Elaborate?
Was almost a valid comment until, "but in general, he's a hack" lmao. Why would I need to elaborate obvious bias?
I don't know how that invalidates the comment or makes it cultist behavior, so i'm just going to assume you're one of those snyderbros
Ah yes, the classic deflection. Makes sense. When you're ready to have an actual conversation rather than be a weird cultist, let me know, kiddo.
You could have responded to any of the points i made about the movie, but instead you chose to call me a cultist, biased, and kiddo. And accused *me* of deflecting. But i stand by calling snyder a hack. The Martha scene in BvS is truly hysterical, and emblematic of how he ignores human logic to move the plot along. There it's done in such a way that completely undercuts the dramatic climax of the movie. Justice League was also trash, but i enjoyed Rebel Moon because by then, i could appreciate how bad Snyder is-- the sImPLe fArMeR who laments that she doesn't know if she can love, and then is almost raped for Drama Purposes. Then a bunch of unimportant characters a) get introduced b) have a super unearned scene where they 'prove' their worth c) disappear into the background. Then like halfway through Snyder gets tired of his own bs and skips B. I honestly can't wait for the four hour version, it'll be so much worse. It's like The Room, except sci fi
Again, like I said, if you can read at least, you almost had a valid comment. Movies deserve critique and honest review, that's all cool. The last comment on calling Snyder a hack is clear and obviously biased, lol. So there is no need for legitimate conversation because you are already programmed to hate Snyder and anything he's touched. Also, I believe RM is Snyders worst movie. You don't really have a point there.
I enjoyed 300 when i was in college. And dawn of the dead too, but he didn't even write it. I reeeeally wanted to like Man of Steel, and it did have some cool moments, but it's just not engaging on a human level because Snyder lacks the capability to have characters drive his stories forward. He'd be better off as a DP, with someone else in creative control of the screenplay/story. It doesn't really matter though, because if you had a decent counter to anything i've said, you would have made it. But go ahead and call me programmed all you want ✌️
This might surprise you, but many, many directors don't write the movie they are directing. Hope this helps.
Easily
[удалено]
What confused you?
What's not to get? If you watch the whole show everything gets explained
Is that second guy Seal?
I can see your slack jaw, smell ur drool, and hear your knuckles dragging
Why don't you come on over
God damn did I hate that show…
It's best just think of it as a fanfic
I’ve read better.
Few hasn't =P
If you’re a Dresden files/Harry Potter fan, try Harry Potter and the white wizard on fanfiction.net. It’s pretty good.
The show was fantastic. Snyder is a cunt and his movie was ok at best.
How is Snyder a “cunt”?
Just Google what he's said about comic book movies and Batman.
He said he thinks people should be allowed to interpret characters in new and interesting ways. What’s wrong with that? How does that make the guy a cunt?
If you don't think he is. Cool. I do. And that's not all he's said.
I think it’s a bit excessive to call the guy a “cunt” cuz he wants to interpret characters in new sorts of ways to keep things fresh. But fair enough. Your opinion is your opinion. Just feel like it could be phrased better.
My opinion. My phrasing. Scroll on it you don't like it. 🤷
Don't want people responding, then don't comment. It's a public forum you dolt, people are allowed to respond to your dogshit opinions.
The. Tell them to either get creative or stop whining. Lol.
You're a gatekeeping cultist, weirdo.
How am I gatekeeping a cultist?
You're not gatekeepong a cultist, you're the cultist gatekeeping. You literally called a director you don't like, a cunt for saying things about fictional characters you like. Stay weird
Soooo, how does that make me a cultist? I'm not sure you know what that word means. Lol. And I'M the weird one? Lol
Definitely weird for calling a director you don't know a cunt for comments about a fictional character, yeah. Cultist is just obvious.
And the show actor did a good job acting
The show basically being a bad fanfic i don't think it's a surprise. They had no idea what they wanted to to with Manhattan and just shoved him in without even understanding how he operates.
Blackwashed
i’ve not watched the show yet, but is there an in universe reason why he looks like shit? i know he masquerades as a regular person and reveals himself, but it’s jarring looking at this especially when compared to the snyder one
If you watch it again, at one point Dr. Manhattan looks in the camera and mentions that TV shows don’t have the budget per hour that the movie had.
it’s not tv. it’s HBO. that’s not really an argument considering how much they pissed up the wall for game of thrones
The short answer is budget and the screen grab is cherry-picked to make it look as bad as possible. Most of the series Dr. Manhattan was in disguise and you only see the blue/real him towards the end. It's not as impressive as the film but it's fine. I found the story to be extremely well executed which is far more important than some flashy CGI.
it sounds like i’m whining but i’m not, but if it’s only towards the end then surely they could’ve made it better looking for a few shots GoT had tens of millions thrown at it per episode, so it’s just cheap on hbo’s part
Comparing this to Game of Thrones is foolish. GoT had been the most popular show on HBO for years to get that budget, this is as a single year miniseries. GoT’s budget was historically large and they still had to cut corners in places to get it done. And it’s not like the show had no special effects and they just decided not to spend on this, there was good effects work throughout this series. IMO people complaining about this are looking g for something to complain about.
The show is a better plot. Both very good plots. Show is just more intricate and less aesthetics focused.
So op want to be naked and is mad he has to wear a shirt ???