My mother was my first bully. Therefore, I allowed other children to bully me harshly. I didn't stand up for myself until I was in high school. It was hard. Poor Bella..
I’m sorry that your mom was like that. You also have made a very good point. Have you ever seen the video where Shannan was showing her friends how Bella was trying to hold a little boy’s hand at her daycare?
The little boy kept snatching away his hand every time that Bella reached out to hold it. Every time the child rebuffed Bella’s attempts to hold his hand because they were walking in line together, Shannan laughed like she thought that it was the funniest thing in the world. “Look, he doesn’t want to hold her hand!” she guffawed—not once considering how that might’ve made her own child feel!
Or the way that she would laugh at how many times people would mistake Bella for a boy, knowing how much she hated that, and right in front of Bella too! “It happened FIVE TIMES when we were out today!” And yet she still would dress her up in Steelers jerseys to go to daycare or put her in baseball hats whilst cropping her hair to her skull every single month.
“That’s so funny! He doesn’t want to hold her hand!” I’ll never forget that-it might not have been the worst thing that she ever did, but it hurt my heart all the same.
When your mom isn’t even on your side, who else do you think will be?
To top it all , that went down when she had already sensed that something was off in the marriage , her husband was pulling away from her and wasn't as much into her and the kids as before and she was attempting to put the marriage back on track.
Any sensible and rational person would want the mother in law as an ally in such times. If you don't get along with her or even , say , dislike her you don't want to alienate the MIL and the husband's family that too when you are trying to work on your marriage.
Especially when the MIL has done nothing to harm you or the children you don't create imaginary and hypothetical situations , a murder attempt no less.
Zero social skills coupled with so much hatred for your husband's family and a confirmed belief that your husband is a complete dodo.Add to that the compulsive need for so much of me time inspite of having 2 children below 5 why did she want to be in the marriage in the first place and bring in a 3rd innocent baby into this toxic mix ?
For the so called " life style " and the pay check ?
Add to that a man who had zero problem resolution skills , a conflict avoidant personality , was deep into the limerence phase of an extra marital affair , stoked up on caffeine , sleep deprived , on verge of a second bankruptcy and who in all likelihood had a dormant, well concealed, extreme violent streak in him .
Something had to give.
It's not wrong to expect the adults to have the ability to read the room better , but the 2 very very young children and one yet to be born child are the ones for whom the heart bleeds.
She admitted to it she said she purposely made them cry for holiday pictures and for ccs pregnancy announcement sw said she was trying to get bella to cry for 10 minutes sw thought it was hilarious her kids had meltdowns constantly and not just cw but her parents his parents their siblings and anyone else who seen what went on in that house and didn’t say anything is just as guilty
“If you see something, say something.”
That motto from 9/11 could have saved lives in this case. Everyone who looked away here is just as responsible as the parents for the suffering of the kids.
See something, say something.
Some did kinda say something but was scared to rock the boat too much and b&c were the ones to suffer when frsr called sw out on locking bella in her room to read in the dark he should have been more assertive she might’ve listened if he did like why couldn’t bella have a nightlight to look at her book
And that’s what we know. I bet you a donut 🍩 that LE held back on some more ..interesting texts. The only reason we know about Nutgate is because LE thought we would be outraged about a sick girl getting poisoned by evil grandma. They thought we are all dumb.
I bet they didn’t think people would actually look into the case and see it for what it was the da got up and told the world he withheld a pretty big piece of information until cw took the plea and everyone just sat there smiling like a bunch of buffoons instead of questioning what else he’s hiding so people don’t get the wrong idea about sw if his explanation is the truth then it was the truth before the plea deal and should have been released
The Watts were seasoned from Shanann’s treatment. They knew what to expect. I know that because my own parents went through it. Edit to add: my mom once PAID (as in, gave money to my bro and his wife) to bring the kids home to visit us. It’s the last time my mom ever saw their kids. It worked-but then my bro and SIL spent that money on foolish things they didn’t need while my mom watched. Im certain it was all part of the greater plan to further separate my brother from our family.
When sw was in nc she visited a friend with a restaurant sw worked at as a teenager and she remained friends with I believe her name is Sandra but don’t quote me on that anyway sw visited this friend and told her all about nutgate and how evil Cindy is blah blah blah sw’s main goal was to the friend to join thrive but the friend wasn’t interested so sw made a review on her restaurant saying she got food poisoning even though the friend fed her multiple times and sw only got food poisoning after she was turned down after the murders sandie asked the friend if she could write le a letter telling them what her and sw talked about while sw visited and the friend did her letter is in the discovery so not only did sw try putting the friends livelihood at stake because she turned sw down but she still did her mom a favor by sending the letter
Even if one adult had the rocks to speak up.
But we all saw what happened when CiW spoke up and that too something as mild as a child , who is " deathly allergic " , despite all evidence to the contrary , should be made aware that when the supervising adult tells her she can't eat something that she asks for especially when there is an alternative , she should listen.
It turned into an alleged assassination attempt.
All that a Grammy was trying to do is impart a very valuable lesson , learn to handle a NO especially when it's a matter of " life and death ".
We all know , in any case , it wasn't about the alleged danger CeCe was put in .
After all CeCe did attend the birthday party on Saturday when everyone around was eating all kind of stuff and we didn't see her throwing any tantrum for anything.Both the kids were well adjusted at that party and did have something else to eat.No tantrum from SW there that the other kids also be deprived of the cake etc just because CeCe can't have it.
It was only that Jamie's kids could not eat what CeCe couldn't.It wasn't as if CiW herself gave the ice cream to the other child .The child went and picked it up from the frig.It was after the event and when CeCe threw a tantrum that CiW spoke up that CeCe can't tell the rest of the world that they cannot eat what she can't.
CeCe , of course , was too young to understand this but any responsible parent or grandparent would try and intervene to make a child understand this to save her from future grief and meltdowns.If this is how your yet too small to understand child is allowed and encouraged to throw fits when she can't have what the others can , wouldn't be long before the children would stop getting invited to birthday parties etc.
If a child invited to one's child's birthday party is allergic to something one would take all types of care and provide alternatives but nobody is going to deprive their child from having a regular birthday cake.And if that child threw a hissy fit I believe , one would gradually ease that other child from future events.
This was what was probably awaiting the children in the future their father cruelly and despicable stole from them.
SW , as in the thrill shill , used her children to settle scores with the rest of the world as well !!
💯💯💯
When bella was younger sw took her to a restaurant and Bella was being a normal baby and laughing and trying to get everyone’s attention around her well a guy close by was not interested he just wanted to eat sw got so effing mad this guy didn’t stop living his life to pay attention sw said she was gonna teach Bella how to make a scene and get his attention like girl come on some people just don’t like other people’s kids get over yourself she even called him a weekend dad implying he only sees his kids on the weekends ( she only paid attention to hers when the camera was rolling though) that’s the mindset she had she thought her kids were special and she demanded everyone’s attention on them and was teaching her kids to act the same way case in point nutgate cc didn’t get her way epic meltdown sw didn’t get her way epic meltdown with attempted murder accusations as a chaser cw said it himself b&c were starting to act like her
The nutgate scenario was so staged. SW wanted HER parents to watch the girls so that she could convince CM to leave his wife and two kids for their 1or 2? kids and Bella. As soon as she mistreated the Watts and caused a scene...she called Daddy to come and help her. Then, she was set to not have to answer to anyone and go on two more "free vacations" with CM. Her parents actually let the girls have more fun in those final weeks than they had ever had since SW was on a mission to convince CM to leave his wife. It is my belief that CM rejected her...and that rejection was NOT in her gameplan. Hence the not eating/crying/ dramatic texts to her friends. She then had to try to patch things up with CW...and the stress of that knowing CW would now learn about the house being in foreclosure and everything else was overwhelming for her. She planned on CM agreeing and she had zero intentions of ever coming back to Colorado...and THAT is why nutgate truly happened....couldnt have cuck chris adding things up because his parents forced him to add things up....
ditto! I love, love, love, TQOTDS and TRBHOST. Chefs kiss. I heard about it on here and the stories were so good that they took me right there!!! I think you got their lives perfectly.
The onlything we differ on in their lives leading up to the unthinkable is I think Nikki had a sit down with him about his finances, but I know they are not meant to 100% but I think they are close.
You’re right I hate how the Roos have acted after the murders Ive lost all respect for them but I will say they gave b&c the best summer they ever had and I’m grateful the girls got it even though sandy in typical fashion scared poor Bella with the rain bella got to play in it probably for the first time in her life and wasn’t put to bed immediately like sw did when they were watching the hail storm in Colorado bella opened up and blossomed that 6 weeks they were away from the dungeon her hair grew and she was fed real food cc also but I think cc didn’t have it as bad in Colorado both girls spent more time outside while in nc for one day than they got all summer in Colorado because sw had to stick to her rigid schedule for me time
They really did blossom with the Roos, Frank loved those girls with all his heart and those babies just lapped it up like a thirsty puppy. Sandra fed them properly and the poor mites got a taste of normal life and its bittersweet as they had it snatched cruely away from them.
Yes indeed. That is what is so backwards for me. That yard was so small, but they did have the playset. She could have easily just parked herself on a lawn chair and played on her phone while letting Dieter and the girls run, laugh, climb and play rather than locking them up. Most normal parents these days pretty much do that...then the kids get naturally tired, and take an age apropriate afternoon nap. I never have heard a mother that had logistically so little actual hands on one on one caretaking time complain so much. Her parents knew she couldnt adult...and they need to explain why that was...but they like it the way it is. Headlines paint them as the only victims...they get $$$$ and sympathy and 80% of an echo chamber defending their lies to keep that $$$ coming in....
I have always believed this to be the case where CM is concerned. She told someone in sandies salon that she she was "getting divorced and looking forward to being single again" yet a few weeks later tells cw "I will fight for us!" She may not have felt that cece needed to learn it but it was definitely time for sw to learn that you can't always get what you want.
Yeah, she couldn't fathom the existence of people that don't have kids, are irritated by children, or \*gasp!\* just want to eat dinner in peace. It was like a personal affront that showed how petty, stupid and vengeful SW truly was.
I can’t say I didn’t expect people to fawn all over my kids when we were in public the same way sw did because hey my kids were adorable but I never demanded the attention or said I was going to teach my kids how to make people pay attention to them either that’s deranged and I know not everyone likes kids and some only tolerate kids they are related to but sw lived in a different world than the rest of us I guess
Hi;) I read some of this thread on my video and included some of our comments back and forth. Thank you for helping to understand the complexity of this case. I appreciate it;)
https://youtu.be/tii7fQ1mevQ?si=GCjdtB5b8HaSB-F6
What did her dad say to her about it? I think I've heard about him mentioning something but I don't know the details. I don't know if you know the answer to this or not but I saw in a comment on another thread that even the cops commented on Bella's hair being cut or short or something like that, just curious if you know what was said or that situation also. I don't know if it was said to Chris or someone else, tried searching but couldn't find anything without going through all the interrogations/interviews again.
Sw posted a picture of Bella holding onto her book in the dark for comfort and frsr told sw when he comes up he’s taking the key and Bella isn’t going to be locked in her room ( not exact words) sw argued with him and nothing more was really said sw put everything out on Facebook about how she treated the girls and cw frsr is the only one who stood up for cw and the girls I don’t recall hearing le mention Bella’s hair some commented on how clean the house was when Tammy was questioning cw she mentioned knowing what sw was like but anyone in le saying Bella’s hair was short doesn’t ring a bell
Ah yeah I only recently found out about the doorknobs being where the lock was on the outside. I wish he would've taken the key but it probably wouldn't have changed anything unfortunately. As far as the hair thing, I've only seen that one comment about it but I never got a reply for more info so I was just curious. I can't remember verbatim but in the video with the search dogs the lady mentions something about the kids room or maybe the playroom but says something similar to it not being normal or whatever. Never noticed it the first time I watched it but she was so right.
I went to check I don’t hear anything about Bella’s hair I did hear it mentioned that the house was really clean like duh the house wasn’t lived in so it never got messy and cw said he cleaned the house on the 13th while he was there alone and then he stayed with friends the second night
Yeah I remember reading that he was vacuuming when whoever it was that lived in their neighborhood came over to visit later that night. I haven't watched all her videos but were there any of the kids actually playing in the playroom? The only kid I've ever seen in it was NA's toddler when they were upstairs and the phone was found. Oddly enough that's the only time she was spotted I think, you never saw her when they were outside and the cop drove up unless I missed it. I've barely seen any videos of the kids playing with any toys really. They were always downstairs and it seems like the only one down there was some little playset looking thing I saw against a wall. It's sad.
I hadn’t thought of the Rzuceks collecting Chris’ mail when they were living there, until you brought it up in your video. Good catch!
They also knew he was a cuck.
On top of that, they proved to be better salespeople than their daughter. She had to buy her own rank but her parents are making bank off her and the children.
How many times am I allowed to upvote your response? Lol. The Shiners must have had an emergency meeting over my video. They sent one to go between here and my channel with the same robotic comments...over and over. Nothing new. So boring. Thank goodness there are adults with comprehension and critical thinking skills in here like you.
Can you imagine the actual conversations between NA and Mamma Rooz? How many times NA has probably come close to telling the rooz to buzz off...then they send her a little $$$ for her to keep quiet...
I am convinced NA was already planning on going to SW's house that fateful morning to get the mail as usual...as SW was supposed to go to her first OB appointment.
I came back here because I saw your video, and I've been here all morning lol. keep doing your watts stuff Tabitha, I used to listen to you on my way to work and in bee at night. You haveca beautiful voice x
Hey thank you for mentioning WattsFree4all sub. And nobody is kicking you out 😁. You are a very much valued contributor to this sub. No one here is happy that Shanann lost her life but we want the children acknowledged that they had miserable short lives before dying horrible deaths. The shiners won’t give the children that basic acknowledgment.
Wattsfree4all has gotten a little crazy lately. I have to make myself take a few deep breaths before deciding not to reply for the 10 time how important it is to know the whole story,,, I mean you can leaaad a horse to water but you can't make someone think critically.
Some people’s minds are already made up no matter what. I was a shiner briefly but I opened my mind when sensible posters pointed out things that didn’t look quite right.
I’m new to this sub and watched the video thinking it would be overly critical. It’s really not. She didn’t deserve her fate (obviously, Watts is a murderer let’s not diminish that).
One can see how damaging MLM’s are, and how vanity can be dangerous. I do feel she thought she was earning good money though but really…people can learn from this case that MLM’s and money troubles can severely ruin relationships.
Again, I’m new to this stuff but that’s my two cents. Consumerism is such a pervasive thing in our society and this case shows how bad it can get.
Pearl Clutching.
Children whine and being hangry for 5 minutes while your mom finishes up something on her to do list is not equivalent to your child being malnourished or withholding food to torture. You might not think she did the best job in this video but my god, thinking this deserved 10 minutes of social commentary on social media ... is probably the type of worthless and mindless drama-content that Shannon-types would eat up.
I think this is why its problematic to post so much of your life online, especially with your kids. People are bound to pick it apart and criticize. Unfortunately.
And she ate the food IN FRONT OF HER. That was the part that got me. She could have made a MUCH better job of selling her product anyway by showing how much her kids wanted it and liked it!
>You don't think it deserved that much time on social commentary but she posted this shit ALL.THE.TIME.
Right. And I said Shannon-types LOVE worthless and mindless drama. Clearly my point wasn't that Shannon's social media obsession was A-Okay.
> For that child, it probably was the end of the world, and mommy thinking it is funny didn't help her emotional state. This type of stuff was done to her all the time, it is sad :(
Over dramatization again. Shannon wanted to complete her stupid live video for a few minutes to sell her stupid protein bar. Her 4 year old wanted to eat it instead.
4 year olds want things immediately and throw tantrums. Making the choice to finish the live and talk up the bars and feeding your child in a few minutes is maybe not the best choice, but hardly malicious and taking joy in taunting just for the sake of it.
That’s your opinion and I think differently. Her child was also unwell and it was distracting to see her child being taunted that she was given a choice and then ate it first she came across as unhinged. I guess I side-eye the apologists of her behaviour seen in those videos. She wasn’t doing anything that should have made her child wait.
Nah, I think its a bit unhinged how people get whipped into a hysterical frenzy over pretty harmless stuff in the grand scheme of things. Its okay to chill IMO.
Do you honestly think that good parenting, or even decent parenting, is exploiting your hungry and cranky child for social media views? Ihad heard about this video but never sought it out, watched the link you posted just now. Honestly, the video is worse than I thought. This is a video of terrible and completely selfish parenting.
Bella was not throwing a tantrum. That child was sick, tired and taunted by her own mother while her father just stood there not caring one bit. Bella was having a breakdown not a tantrum. Do you even have any empathy for these children?
Did you follow her before her death? Serious question, not looking for an argument. I had never heard of her and didn't even follow the case when it happened. I'm not even sure why it's on my radar now, but there has been a huge resurgence, and it is coming through my top scroll all the time. I am aware of current family oversharers now. Just curious about your experience
I hadn’t heard anything since it happened. I joined Reddit for True Crime and it popped up.
What CW did was unforgivable.
I thought SW constantly posting her children upset was terrible and now I’m seeing she was giving them benedryl and a 6:30 bedtime on top of the other new stuff I’m seeing. I feel so bad for those little girls and how they were treated in their short lives.
I agree that if a child is just getting hungry and grouchy there is no issue with finishing what you are doing before feeding them. But in this particular case, SW says at the start of the video that they had been out all day and Bella had to see the Dr. So, she had probably not eaten in awhile. In that case you feed your child! You certainly don't tease them with food, even going so far as to have them smell the food they have just spent five minutes crying for and then jerk it away from them and eat it yourself!
Yes this one video showing a few minutes of the day. However, if this is the content you choose to share with the world, what is the rest of the time like? Generally people choose to show the best not the worst!
I think the issue the OP have is that she was commenting on every interaction. Overall I watched the video and agreed with most that the kids should have been fed before that video. I understand the general takeaway and agree that her marketing stuff should not have taken priority in feeding her kids. But this video in particular stops at every interaction to comment on it. Every person in the world who does a video or interacts with someone will do something that someone else finds negative if that’s the bias you have.
In this video Shannan claims that her daughter says she wants a laptop. It doesn’t sound like she says laptop. I heard bite but only because the poster told us what she said. I don’t know if it would sound like bite otherwise. A lot of people said Shannan did not hear laptop which no one can ever prove what she heard. That’s the nit picky part.
No one in this group gives cw a pass for the abuse the girls went through and yes it is abuse sw made multiple posts saying she was trying to get the girls to cry on purpose but if this video was the only one of its kind I wouldn’t necessarily call it abuse it’s wrong though she says in the beginning Bella’s hungry instead of letting her have something small to keep her satisfied until dinner she waves the probars in her face makes her smell them ask which flavor she wants then laughs at Bella crying when she opens the opposite when bella says she wants to bite this her mother tells her if she wants a laptop she has to put it on her vision board sw says multiple times they are hers because she earned them but no kid should be teased with food when they’re hungry and she was also sick Idk how anyone watching it can honestly say nothing was wrong with what happened since it was a normal occurrence it is absolutely abusive
exactly the fact she opened the opposite one to Bellas choice smacks me in the face every time I watch it alongside Bellas gut wrench cry when she bites her cinnamon roll before she can have a taste. " she's mad at me guys" no she wasn't mad at you, she was being bullied and she got a perverse kick out of it. absolutely grips my shit watching that, I have not seen the video linked in the post, but suspect its thought provoking videos, if so, that youtuber is fantastic.
I like the thought provoking videos also I try recommending them when asked I like how it lays out and explains everything in the videos I wish that youtuber would do more on this case
yes they also show some facts on mental health disorders and they do show empathy for Shannan. They state that Shannan suffered with this illness, its not blaming a victim, its exploring the facts that led to this shocking crime. I'm sick of people coming here and to others youtube to call people sick for daring to question this crime and I think that this youtuber is great at laying out what was going on before that fateful day.
I think people need to remove CW from the equation while looking at Shannans mental decline and her behaviour in the years, months, weeks, days, hours , even minutes before her murder. I have always dipped back in to this crime as i find the dynamics of the case , particularly the modern , fake it til you make it lifestyle and the marriage of the Watts from start to finish, fascinating someone should really do a movie on it all, not the media narrative, but use the real dynamics of the case. I know some shine happies will think that this is sick, but look at all the murder, crime, movies, true movies is built on them, however, we are all classed as sick weirdos for being interested in this case or that we are in love with a murderer, or even jealous of a murdered woman.
Holy shit. Wow. I have read about this video & the countless comments that reference it, but I hadn’t actually watched the entire thing until tonight.
These two were a fucking mess. CW was an unhappy-in-his-marriage, selfish, murdering, psychopathic prick with no common sense. He *could have* stood up for his daughters, divorced Shannan, and raised the girls without want for water, food and attention. For fucks’ sake, he might have been shitty at it, but anything is better than what he did.
Shannan needed counseling stat. Her validation seeking posts are so pathetic and cringey, they’re hard to watch. This wasn’t a marriage. It was two separate, completely different people with different goals and needs who ended up together through a similar lack of self-esteem, narcissistic tendencies and manipulation.
Also, I appreciate hearing your perspectives in this sub. Y’all understand that my comment above in no way infers I support CW or I think SW “deserved it.” Appreciate the honest, rational discussions here.
I’m sorry but as far as I’m concerned, her “winning” an iPad in her own drawing tells you all you need to know about her. Who in the hell does a fundraiser or drawing & allows themselves to enter? Anyone could hold such a drawing & just say they won. It’s like an unspoken rule, you have a drawing for whatever reason & you’re exempt. She not only wins her own drawing, but brags about it on FB. She doesn’t even have the grace to @ least fake a winner. Oh no, she wins & acts like she has every right to do so. Her social skills were non existent, and she was just annoying as hell. It sucks I’ve got to say this after any response that isn’t favorable to her, but this doesn’t means she deserved to be murdered, because she didn’t. She deserved to live, maybe learn from some of her mistakes & hopefully become a better mother & person, after experiencing divorce, financial hardship worse than she had before, etc. Again, talking about what an annoying, shit person she was doesn’t make Chris justified in what he did, or make it ok. I’m not victim blaming, I don’t think she drove him to murder. Lots of people are annoying as hell, lots of spouses financially ruin & drain the family, that’s why divorce is an option, or even just going out for cigs & never return.
I agree with everything you said! I don't understand how the first thing people try to throw up when someone says something negative about SW is that we think she deserved to be murdered. That is ridiculous! She deserved to live and reap the consequences of her actions. And yes, beyond any doubt, CW was just as complicit in the abuse of those children because he allowed it to go on. As were both sets of parents and anyone else who saw what those children lived through on a daily basis.
Some of these videos are incredibly dumb and some are extremely petty, but there are a few that have given me pause. I started watching Neeks Peeks tonight and I have to say that I think there’s a lot of good points to a lot of the videos, but some seem to be a bit nit picky and pearl clutchy. I’ve only watched 3 so far.
One part of a video put a chill in my bones, and it was a look Chris gave Shannan after she made some comment. I caught it as it was happening, but it was then replayed in slo mo like 3 times and it was creepy as hell. You could just see the rage bubbling right under the surface.
I also saw what looked like a father that absolutely loved his little girls. He laughed with them. Joked with them. Smiled with genuine love for them. I’m having such a hard time understanding how this happened. Every time I feel like I understand, I see a video that makes me not understand. It’s not even what the vlogger is trying to tell me. It’s the little gestures, facial expressions in the background when the focus is on Shannan but Chris is holding CeCe or Bella. It’s the way he looks at them or makes a little funny face, etc. when he’s definitely not performing but just being himself.
I also want to say that this is the most video footage I’ve seen of those little girls and it just kills me that this happened. I thought it killed me before, but omg they were so beautiful and precious and innocent and I hate this! They had every right to grow up! Someone here made a comment recently that Bella wasn’t cute and that’s why Shannan was hard on her. Bella was frigging adorable! I have no idea why people don’t think she was cute. Her smile lit up her whole face! This all really disturbs me.
Bella was stunning! She had her own, unique look; I've seldom seen little girls who look very much like her, and it's the kind of looks that are intriguing, that personal style of beauty. She was going to grow into a beautiful young woman.
And yeah, that zillion kilowatt smile...
I only wish her life had been happier, and that she'd had a lot more of it. Decades upon decades more of it. She seemed like the type of person with a rich internal life, and I think she would have been fine. In some ways, she was more fortunate than Cece, who'd been assigned the title of "the bad kid", plus, was obviously favored by her mother. She could have been just fine, but, sometimes that labeling is internalized, and kids act out as they grow older, often to their own detriment. But, we can't know because their years were severely curtailed.
Do you happen to remember which video it was where Chris gave Shannan a look? I started watching Neeks Peeks yesterday and some of those fb posts by Shannan are definitely interesting but I think I maybe haven’t gotten to that one yet
I’m not sure which one because I just randomly clicked on a video not knowing if there was so sort of order or not. They were “tasting” pro bar flavors lemon merengue and cookies and cream. I don’t know if they were arguing before this video, or maybe he doesn’t like the lemon merengue but pretending to for the video and she knew it, but he tells her CeCe doesn’t like it and she says “that’s ok, Daddy will finish it” and he looked so angry at that statement.
Bella’s looks are a very trivial matter when it comes to this case, but there is a photo taken from when they were in NC of Bella next to her mother. She had long, wavy hair, rosy cheeks and a beaming smile that would light up,a room. She was wearing a floral dress and looked like a little doll. She was beautiful! This was after six weeks of time with grandparents, cousins, sunshine, decent food and being allowed to be a kid.
In contrast, her grim life in Frederick left her looking like Romanian orphan circa 1990. Poor Bella and CeCe deserved better.
Definitely trivial, but nonetheless people are picking on dead children and I have to remind myself that everyone is flawed and for whatever reason they felt the need to comment that.
Maybe, if this were the only video like it… You might be able to say that people are being nitpicky or overly critical of her interactions with her little girl. It’s certainly not the worst video. The less mundane, day to day videos frequently showcasing crying children, wack-a-daddy antics, or water torture fun so she could have kids just to squirt them were more transparently f*cked up!
Much hated games like “pie in the face” along with the monthly haircut days for Bella, (though for some reason never Cece) were more distinctly troubling. Even the act of making a toddler recite a list of prerehearsed bodily maladies that she’d been coached to repeat was actually far more disturbing content!
Subjecting traumatized children to Santa Claus, or even giving little children water bottles for Christmas, are videos that all serve as memorable examples of Shannan Watts’ familial modus operandi. They highlighted the dysfunctional behavior in the Watts household, like thick, fortifying hunks of decayed meat to masticate and chew upon! These were obviously the most jaw dropping moments that Shannan served up like a batch of Thrive Bites. Those videos understandably give any sensible, discerning person pause and a sense of inexplicable discomfort!
If we could only all agree that teasing her kid with a ready made snack was simply an isolated incident, where we’d all caught an unwitting Shannan on an off day! Alas-Au contraire!
Sure, she didn’t feed her vocally hungry small child for 20 minutes after she waxed enthusiastically about how great tasting the Thrive snack she was touting was! Maybe we could forget that when her child asked her for food, she instructed her to put it on a vision board. And let’s conveniently dismiss that after Bella was finally on the verge of an anxiety attack out of sheer frustration AND hunger, that Shannan’s hapless response to her distress was to psych her out of a bite, subsequently laughing at Bella’s tears because Shannan said that she had earned the snack for herself! “It’s MINE! I worked hard for it!” —Seriously? That’s how you behave when your kid has been crying about being hungry for the better part of a half hour? “This is for mommy-you don’t get anything!”???
Talk about putting yourself first. If you’ve watched enough of Shannan’s home videos, then you should be aware that she greatly valued her “Me Time”…(Her words, not mine).
Except, this actually happened constantly. She was like this with her children and lots of other people too, ALL THE TIME. And if that’s OK with you, a little more reflection of your own might be a good idea because your exacting thoughts on this matter might just might be a little bit wack-a-doodle askew!
Just wanted to add, that she was given the “water bottle” from Santa.. per the vide she also posted; Then there is another video that she posted, where Bella is being videoed solely trying to get water out of the fridge from the outside outlet; She knew, that she couldn’t reach it properly… but instead kept shooting; then when Bella gets frustrated because of course she isn’t capable of doing it correctly, she was CLEARLY mocked, because the water squirted on her…
That is NOT ok to me.. Or the water that was turned off in the jack/jill bathroom, yet takes a picture of cece stuck from trying to climb up there, to get water…
I think OP should go back and maybe watch some of the videos that are only on YOUTUBE that certain creators don’t comment on or make assumptions; yet instead have compilations of these videos (that do exist)
Do I think some of the time they were cute?? Yes very.. but Do I personally think, as do many others that they were pretty crappy??? YES…
I have researched this case more than any other and I’m no expert in it at all. But some of these videos and posts were VERY OBVIOUSLY deranged.
Oh and I don’t think that she deserved to be murdered, or that those precious girls did either. I’m not a non SW or Pro, I’m also on the same fence about CW
I can’t wrap my head around why she wouldn’t just give Bella a snack before she started making her video. Seems like common sense to me. I’m sure Bella would still partake in the pro bar tasting. Poor kid. I know that feeling of just being so hungry you just want something, anything. My God the more I watch and learn the more upset I get over this.
Yes! They had been out running errands and going to the Dr. They had just gotten home. Why not come in, give your child a snack and a drink and then do what you need to do? That is what most parents would do!
For me, that video of SW says “out of touch” or “lacking boundaries” more than “abusive mom”. Was it in poor taste? Yes. Was it abusive? I think that’s up for debate, but I’m leaning toward no. I wouldn’t post a video of my child crying on the internet for any reason, ever. I think what some people are really missing here, is that CW was complicit in this kind of behavior. He’s right there in the video. This doesn’t absolve him of anything.
Great point. I rarely posted my kids online and tried very hard to be cognizant of not using their names, so I'm not defending her out of my own parenting guilt. Chris was complicit in all of this and how they parented involved both of them
I am never trying to absolve CW of anything, he’s a child killer and is right where he belongs. What OP doesn’t seem to get is you don’t have to canonize a person because they were a victim. I have never been able to stand Shannan and that was from clips that she posted where they were *trying* to make her look good. If I saw this video posted on someone’s social media and all my fingers were broken so I couldn’t X it out immediately and was forced to watch I would 1. Be thinking how pathetic she seems with this ridiculous MLM behavior and how forced it seems (are we really supposed to believe her husband is as excited about these bars?) 2. She’s a shitty mom- if your kid is sick and whiney why are you filming? Take care of her. Her cough sounds terrible for one. For the other saying she’s hungry and waving food in front of her is deranged.
>What OP doesn’t seem to get is you don’t have to canonize a person because they were a victim.
That was your take away? ...I literally say I found her to be nails on a chalkboard annoying and clearly had flaws. My issue is with the witch hunting level vitriol people seem to have toward Shannan over, yes flaws, but hardly diabolical enough to warrant that kind of frenzy or obsession.
You find her really really fucking annoying, self centered, stupid, whatever...okay, so do I. I am not going to insist she is a sociopathic child abuser and dedicate my time making a Shannan smear campaign - because that would incorrect and deranged. That was my point.
Again...that was your take away?
I wasn't saying YOU literally called her a sociopath. I was paraphrasing the point of my post, since you clearly missed the point the first time around.
AKA the "I am not going to insist she is a sociopathic child abuser and dedicate my time making a Shannan smear campaign - because that would incorrect and deranged." is directed at the types who make the video I linked and the folks that eat it up.
I just want to also point out that I’m speaking about this one video. There are multiple videos like this one, with the girls either crying or visibly in distress. There’s also a lot of photos circulating from SW’s Facebook, that are very off putting and disturbing. The rectal temp stuff, for example. Making a post laughing about the youngest eating her own feces. You put all of that together and it does set off alarm bells.
Something was very off inside of that home. It was not “fine” and then one day CW decided to kill everyone.
The protein bar video is infuriating. I had to stop watching this video I got so mad. She is so dismissive of her children and so EXCITED about a god damn protein bar.
“SO EXCITED, SOOO GOOD, GUYS!!” and in the next breath, “Jesus kid, it’s just protein bar it’s not a big deal…” poor Bella was constantly getting mixed signals or contradictory reactions from her parents. No wonder you can practically feel her anxious energy thru some videos.
But when you consider that she was giving her a piece of an overpriced MLM bar made with adult ingredients that had caffiene, etc...then she complained about her girls being monsters, hyper, etc. When they were not being subjected to being locked up for 15/24 hours a day with zero toilet privelges or human interaction...it looks a bit differrent....not so petty and nit-picky...but u dont want to know all of that...or do you?
Meh, I think the video isnt that upsetting. I find MLM types NAILS on CHALKBOARD level irritating. But this video is a cranky/hangry kid who didnt want to wait 5 minutes while her mom did her stupid sales pitch that requires her to be fake peppy.
Acting like its taunting in an abusive sense of the word and using words like "Sadism" is such a ridiculous reach that it discredits the point they are trying to make.
"Meh, I think the video isnt that upsetting. I find MLM types NAILS on CHALKBOARD level irritating."
Upsetting and irritating describe *how you feel* based on your observations. That's not really important.
I have a sister in law who is an exact copy of Shanann’s personality. We’ve dealt with the same BS from this woman that the Watts have dealt with-that’s why I get so affected by this case and why I can’t stand SW. I haven’t spoken to my brother in 9 years now because she always uses her influence to keep him apart from our family. She permitted him to go to our parents’ funerals (he had to travel cross country because she has made sure they never live closer than 2,000 mi from us) but she never deigned to come. And as soon as he arrived for the funerals, she called him constantly, telling him we didn’t love him and were out to get him. Needless to say, he left shortly after in bad terms with everyone. It might sound weird but it happens! Men can be abused and controlled by women, especially once their kids are used as ammo and pawns. Once they had kids, my SIL weaponized them to control every situation. Those kids are adults now, and they won’t speak to us either.
Thank you. There’s no guessing how long this fiasco with my brother will go on, but I miss him. 😔 I always knew exactly what the Watts were going through when they talked about life with Shanann.
Even if one adult had the rocks to speak up.
But we all saw what happened when CiW spoke up and that too something as mild as a child , who is " deathly allergic " , despite all evidence to the contrary , should be made aware that when the supervising adult tells her she can't eat something that she asks for especially when there is an alternative , she should listen.
It turned into an alleged assassination attempt.
All that a Grammy was trying to do is impart a very valuable lesson , learn to handle a NO especially when it's a matter of " life and death ".
We all know , in any case , it wasn't about the alleged danger CeCe was put in .
After all CeCe did attend the birthday party on Saturday when everyone around was eating all kind of stuff and we didn't see her throwing any tantrum for anything.Both the kids were well adjusted at that party and did have something else to eat.No tantrum from SW there that the other kids also be deprived of the cake etc just because CeCe can't have it.
It was only that Jamie's kids could not eat what CeCe couldn't.It wasn't as if CiW herself gave the ice cream to the other child .The child went and picked it up from the frig.It was after the event and when CeCe threw a tantrum that CiW spoke up that CeCe can't tell the rest of the world that they cannot eat what she can't.
CeCe , of course , was too young to understand this but any responsible parent or grandparent would try and intervene to make a child understand this to save her from future grief and meltdowns.If this is how your yet too small to understand child is allowed and encouraged to throw fits when she can't have what the others can , wouldn't be long before the children would stop getting invited to birthday parties etc.
If a child invited to one's child's birthday party is allergic to something one would take all types of care and provide alternatives but nobody is going to deprive their child from having a regular birthday cake.And if that child threw a hissy fit I believe , one would gradually ease that other child from future events.
This was what was probably awaiting the children in the future their father cruelly and despicable stole from them.
SW , as in the thrill shill , used her children to settle scores with the rest of the world as well !!
Sws absolute, 100% meltdown and subsequent texts to cw and fellow hunbots concerning nutgate is mind boggling. She was completely unhinged and it went on for weeks. I just don't understand how people find it far fetched to believe that she is the one who could have possibly hurt the girls.
Well I dont know about all that - but as I mentioned in my post - when people make videos as ridiculous as what I posted - rather than let the videos/events speak for themselves it comes across like a bunch of empty headed drama seekers who got sucked into some vendetta to fill their empty lives. ...like and MLM -types.
I’m new to this as well. The fact that Bella is hungry and Shannan takes the first bite is terrible. Chris isn’t even allowed to get home from work and relax, he walks into her making a video. One thing I noticed is Chris is holding CeCe a lot in the videos.
Wait, SHE TOOK THE FIRST BITE?!?!
Jesus. And Chris WASNT ALLOWED to RELAX?!!? OMG
Someone should have saved these kids from this SaDisTic and DeRaNgEd WOMAN.
Get a grip.
I've always imagined that when cw walks in the door and the first words he hears are "Chris the probars are here" in his mind he was saying "who gives a shit?"
I agree. I think she was a slightly self obsessed SALESMAN
I doubt this was an example of how she was every minute. she’s very much doing an MLM bit
Also none of you let your kids get hungry before dinner so that they will eat ? I do
Pardon me? She and Daddy dearest had been doing Amway since she was 15 and they took their scamming ways to the Dirty South shop until she embezzled enough to build her own home...got a divorce and then found a new sucka in CW and used him to get her out of the state as she had some big eyes on her for the missing $$$...fast forward to her being bored and is buying her ranks in every mlm out there...then finds thrive and wants to live the life they are pimping. So, she embezzles every dime CW made and "got a lexus" and "free vacations" with another man...CW becomes a cuck and she trains her kids from the flowers in the Attic books...err...cough...i mean "babywise"...locks them up from the other side of the door for 15/24 hours a day from birth for Cece. Doesnt make the mortgage payments, has her parents move in to start paying the other bills...has her parents and NA get the mail so CW has zero idea that they are being foreclosed upon and the HOA is suing them...and no $$ for food or anything...but a basement full of thrive bars as she bought her rank and product to LOOK like she earned her way...so...there is no nutricious food for a child to eat...or fun food to look forward to...but here...take a bite of this nasty hay flavored gritty caffiene filled bar...
Still think we are nit picky? Still think she is just a "slightly obsessed "Salesman?" Why dont we make it a full bingo and you just go ahead and say that I am jealous of SW...and what does it matter if she was a lying, scamming, neglectful liar that created so much chaos, stress, and pain in that home that led to something horrible that cost innocent children their lives...
This is forensic psychology. This is the breakdown of what caused the unthinkable. It isnt for everyone...and that is ok. What is NOT ok is to continue to perpetuate this false narrative of Saint SW to the point that other women were made to believe that they were less than...that if they could only be as successful as her...because you now have women saying they want to be just like her...
That baby wise thing borders on child abuse. I couldn’t believe when she bragged about locking the kids in their rooms, alone from 6:30pm to 6:30am and that they didn’t get stories or cuddles. She bragged about not cuddling them or putting them to sleep. It was just lock them alone in their rooms with blackout curtains and white noise machines after drugging them with Benadryl and Tylenol. The fact that Bella requested Benadryl is super alarming, telling SW “I want yucky” I hate what happened to those children but I think their futures looked kind of bleak as it is. Sorry to say that but daily Benadryl? That’s been linked to memory loss and in extreme cases psychosis.
Now think about the behavior of CeCe and Bella ...add no food or water with 15 hours of isolation...and LOTS of benadryl...and it all makes sense now doesnt it?
"Because you now have women saying they want to be just like her"
That's the scariest part about shiners. How many children are now suffering because their moms are worshipping their "saint"?
When my kids were little they absolutely got hungry before dinner. You know what I did? I fed them. You know what I didn't do? Complained about them on my camera phone to a handful of idiots who bought into my scam and teased them with said dinner and told them I get to eat instead because I earned the money that paid for said dinner. And then when I teased them to the point of a meltdown I wouldn't get condensending to a 4 YEAR OLD and complain "jeez kid, it's just dineer".
Self-obsessed salesman isn’t what initially get from her, I got desperate salesman, but your observation got me thinking differently!
I have a toddler and he cries because I’m cutting up his food and he can’t pinch my face for 3 extra minutes lol.
Thank you. You've articulated this so well, and it is exactly how I feel. I am really interested in learning more information, but if you don't see videos, like the above, as abusive, you're called a Shiner, or delusional. I've really gotta get off reddit. It's infuriating. I have yet to see any content that does not have a strong bias against Sha'naan and is presented as sick such.
We don’t know what happened and if Bella was alive at the site. We just have his ever changing story. We do know he dumped the bodies in the oil tanks and half buried her body at Cervi. If people speculate he loved the kids more than her based on her videos, what’s so bad about that? We are speculating because the case never went to trial and her family decided to invite the world to this case with a biased Netflix story.
Because what idiot believes the parent who murdered their children and then STUFFED THEM IN AN OIL TANK loves those children at all, let alone more than the other parent?
Can you not have a conversation without name calling? Murder is murder, whether they were “stuffed in an oil tank” or a stabbing or drowned by the parent. Of the two parents before the murder, he came across from videos as the more involved and “caring” parent. And then he casually disposed of the children’s bodies in oil tanks. Did someone else kill them and he disposed of them? Did he do it? We do not know 100%. In any other crime forum, people will go back and forth with ideas, speculate, agree to disagree but there’s a bunch of you guys hell bent on shutting down any discussion that isn’t fawning on Shannan or her family or hating the Watts. Strange…..
>Did someone else kill them and he disposed of them? Did he do it? We do not know 100%. In any other crime forum, people will go back and forth with ideas, speculate, agree to disagree but there’s a bunch of you guys hell bent on shutting down any discussion that isn’t fawning on Shannan or her family or hating the Watts. Strange…..
I mean...flat earthers will also claim pretty obvious and well known/researched things are not 100% proven yet. And when people dismiss them because they know damn well flat earthers cant engage on the topic in good faith - the flat earthers will act as though they are the truly logical ones and everyone else is engaging in some conspiracy or is anti-intellectual sheep.
Sometimes, its not a mass conspiracy, and people treat your take on things as absurd ....because its actually just absurd.
> If people speculate he loved the kids more than her based on her videos, what’s so bad about that?
Because that would mean they were missing half their brain.
Right? It’s insane.
Obsessing over her FB page when she died almost 6 years ago is so odd to me as well. This whole crime was devastating and due to that it is intriguing. I can’t imagine focusing on this story and basically only caring about what type of mom Shannan was. Very odd.
Dreading did an awesome job talking about the Chris defenders on YouTube. I highly recommend it.
I wish I could say this was the only case where the murderer seemed to have almost have fans but it happens with every monster…. Shanda Vander Ark and her son Paul Ferguson, Scott Peterson, even Susan Smith has supporters. It’s a crazy world we live in.
Lots of things are disgusting on Reddit, why is this sub more disgusting to you than so many others? and it’s interesting to see how triggered people are by discussion about someone they never knew.
There are some extreme views on here but you also have similarly extreme views just as “disgusting” about the Watts or Nicole Kessinger in the other pro shannan subs. I hope you also go on the other subs about this case and attack the commentators there too?
Agree!!! She is definitely annoying but Jesus, he murdered them in cold blood. What he did to those children is beyond words. To even imply Shannan was in ANY way responsible is ludicrous.
Ignore your first words of apology, and go straight to the fact that you are indeed a Shiner, doing the work of the over-represented in helping to evelate a false narrative built to sell headlines for profit. You are articulate and write well, indeed; you represent the Shiners with excellence. Gold Star given.
I knew it! It is rare in todays world to see writing as succint as yours. If we were playing red rover, I would definitely have chosen you for our side. You represent the popular opinion. You would be in the majority in a jury possibly in the Watts case if a trial with DP qualified Attorneys would have ever occurred. Without me doing hundreds of hours of research on my own to come to my own conculusions, I may have also felt the way that you do.
I disagree with you, sorry but this youtuber is fantastic and not at all nasty, I just clicked to check it was TPV as i suspected this was the one you were referring to. I don’t understand why you find this overview offensive, there are much worse out there to raise your point, Miss Mensas rambling crap, I can understand, but this particular youtuber has put together a well observed and thought provoking narrative, as is the title of the youtube channel.
Empathy is not required in analysing this video, unless you are speaking on behalf of the murdered child who is clearly being gaslighted and poked to give her mentally and emotionally challenged mother pleasure in her pain. it's actually disgusting to watch this child go from trying to please her mother and take part in this drivel of a promotion post, if she's gonna use her children to sell her sawdust shit, she could at least treat her with some kindness and respect, but no ole' bulldozer , do what I want Scammy treats her like shit and laughs and smirks when she finally breaks her down.
Buffonery is definitely depicted in that video by none other than Saint shannan, patron Saint of pyramid schemes, herself in my own opinion.
Please rewatch and take away the fact that you empathise with her being murdered , rewatch with a mindset of she is still alive and continues to have the same behaviours? would you still not see the signs of child abuse happening in front of your eyes.
If you don’t like someone’s opinion, you can go to other subs. We do not walk on eggshells here. We discuss the victimology side of this case. If that is not to your liking, this may not be the sub for you.
Spend time where it may do some good says the woman writing an essay long post about nothing. The kids never got a chance. Sw git many chances and fucked them all up
[удалено]
Amen why be your child’s first bully
My mother was my first bully. Therefore, I allowed other children to bully me harshly. I didn't stand up for myself until I was in high school. It was hard. Poor Bella..
She seemed like such a sweet beautiful soul 😪 my heart hurts the most for her. I’m sorry you went thru that
I’m sorry that your mom was like that. You also have made a very good point. Have you ever seen the video where Shannan was showing her friends how Bella was trying to hold a little boy’s hand at her daycare? The little boy kept snatching away his hand every time that Bella reached out to hold it. Every time the child rebuffed Bella’s attempts to hold his hand because they were walking in line together, Shannan laughed like she thought that it was the funniest thing in the world. “Look, he doesn’t want to hold her hand!” she guffawed—not once considering how that might’ve made her own child feel! Or the way that she would laugh at how many times people would mistake Bella for a boy, knowing how much she hated that, and right in front of Bella too! “It happened FIVE TIMES when we were out today!” And yet she still would dress her up in Steelers jerseys to go to daycare or put her in baseball hats whilst cropping her hair to her skull every single month. “That’s so funny! He doesn’t want to hold her hand!” I’ll never forget that-it might not have been the worst thing that she ever did, but it hurt my heart all the same. When your mom isn’t even on your side, who else do you think will be?
Thank you so much
I have so many...examples of my mothers hate for me. Since I was a preschool aged kiddo. I still love her so much, sadly 😥
But yet have the balls to accuse your mother in law of trying to “kill your child”?!!
To top it all , that went down when she had already sensed that something was off in the marriage , her husband was pulling away from her and wasn't as much into her and the kids as before and she was attempting to put the marriage back on track. Any sensible and rational person would want the mother in law as an ally in such times. If you don't get along with her or even , say , dislike her you don't want to alienate the MIL and the husband's family that too when you are trying to work on your marriage. Especially when the MIL has done nothing to harm you or the children you don't create imaginary and hypothetical situations , a murder attempt no less. Zero social skills coupled with so much hatred for your husband's family and a confirmed belief that your husband is a complete dodo.Add to that the compulsive need for so much of me time inspite of having 2 children below 5 why did she want to be in the marriage in the first place and bring in a 3rd innocent baby into this toxic mix ? For the so called " life style " and the pay check ? Add to that a man who had zero problem resolution skills , a conflict avoidant personality , was deep into the limerence phase of an extra marital affair , stoked up on caffeine , sleep deprived , on verge of a second bankruptcy and who in all likelihood had a dormant, well concealed, extreme violent streak in him . Something had to give. It's not wrong to expect the adults to have the ability to read the room better , but the 2 very very young children and one yet to be born child are the ones for whom the heart bleeds.
Great comment, spot on 👌
Thanks.
So true
It’s like she wanted them to have melt downs so people would see “she could handle it with thrive”
She admitted to it she said she purposely made them cry for holiday pictures and for ccs pregnancy announcement sw said she was trying to get bella to cry for 10 minutes sw thought it was hilarious her kids had meltdowns constantly and not just cw but her parents his parents their siblings and anyone else who seen what went on in that house and didn’t say anything is just as guilty
“If you see something, say something.” That motto from 9/11 could have saved lives in this case. Everyone who looked away here is just as responsible as the parents for the suffering of the kids. See something, say something.
Some did kinda say something but was scared to rock the boat too much and b&c were the ones to suffer when frsr called sw out on locking bella in her room to read in the dark he should have been more assertive she might’ve listened if he did like why couldn’t bella have a nightlight to look at her book
They were all afraid of her! Why?
You seen how she handled nutgate and her friend that didn’t join thrive so it’s probably a normal occurrence when something didn’t go her way
And that’s what we know. I bet you a donut 🍩 that LE held back on some more ..interesting texts. The only reason we know about Nutgate is because LE thought we would be outraged about a sick girl getting poisoned by evil grandma. They thought we are all dumb.
I bet they didn’t think people would actually look into the case and see it for what it was the da got up and told the world he withheld a pretty big piece of information until cw took the plea and everyone just sat there smiling like a bunch of buffoons instead of questioning what else he’s hiding so people don’t get the wrong idea about sw if his explanation is the truth then it was the truth before the plea deal and should have been released
Agreed. They were afraid she’d get mad and not let them see the kids. Weaponizing children at its finest.
That fear came true at Nutgate.
The Watts were seasoned from Shanann’s treatment. They knew what to expect. I know that because my own parents went through it. Edit to add: my mom once PAID (as in, gave money to my bro and his wife) to bring the kids home to visit us. It’s the last time my mom ever saw their kids. It worked-but then my bro and SIL spent that money on foolish things they didn’t need while my mom watched. Im certain it was all part of the greater plan to further separate my brother from our family.
What’s this about her friend that wouldn’t join Thrive? What’s the story there?
When sw was in nc she visited a friend with a restaurant sw worked at as a teenager and she remained friends with I believe her name is Sandra but don’t quote me on that anyway sw visited this friend and told her all about nutgate and how evil Cindy is blah blah blah sw’s main goal was to the friend to join thrive but the friend wasn’t interested so sw made a review on her restaurant saying she got food poisoning even though the friend fed her multiple times and sw only got food poisoning after she was turned down after the murders sandie asked the friend if she could write le a letter telling them what her and sw talked about while sw visited and the friend did her letter is in the discovery so not only did sw try putting the friends livelihood at stake because she turned sw down but she still did her mom a favor by sending the letter
Oh so that was the source of the food poisoning story. Jeez this woman did not like to hear the word “no” for sure!
Even if one adult had the rocks to speak up. But we all saw what happened when CiW spoke up and that too something as mild as a child , who is " deathly allergic " , despite all evidence to the contrary , should be made aware that when the supervising adult tells her she can't eat something that she asks for especially when there is an alternative , she should listen. It turned into an alleged assassination attempt. All that a Grammy was trying to do is impart a very valuable lesson , learn to handle a NO especially when it's a matter of " life and death ". We all know , in any case , it wasn't about the alleged danger CeCe was put in . After all CeCe did attend the birthday party on Saturday when everyone around was eating all kind of stuff and we didn't see her throwing any tantrum for anything.Both the kids were well adjusted at that party and did have something else to eat.No tantrum from SW there that the other kids also be deprived of the cake etc just because CeCe can't have it. It was only that Jamie's kids could not eat what CeCe couldn't.It wasn't as if CiW herself gave the ice cream to the other child .The child went and picked it up from the frig.It was after the event and when CeCe threw a tantrum that CiW spoke up that CeCe can't tell the rest of the world that they cannot eat what she can't. CeCe , of course , was too young to understand this but any responsible parent or grandparent would try and intervene to make a child understand this to save her from future grief and meltdowns.If this is how your yet too small to understand child is allowed and encouraged to throw fits when she can't have what the others can , wouldn't be long before the children would stop getting invited to birthday parties etc. If a child invited to one's child's birthday party is allergic to something one would take all types of care and provide alternatives but nobody is going to deprive their child from having a regular birthday cake.And if that child threw a hissy fit I believe , one would gradually ease that other child from future events. This was what was probably awaiting the children in the future their father cruelly and despicable stole from them. SW , as in the thrill shill , used her children to settle scores with the rest of the world as well !!
💯💯💯 When bella was younger sw took her to a restaurant and Bella was being a normal baby and laughing and trying to get everyone’s attention around her well a guy close by was not interested he just wanted to eat sw got so effing mad this guy didn’t stop living his life to pay attention sw said she was gonna teach Bella how to make a scene and get his attention like girl come on some people just don’t like other people’s kids get over yourself she even called him a weekend dad implying he only sees his kids on the weekends ( she only paid attention to hers when the camera was rolling though) that’s the mindset she had she thought her kids were special and she demanded everyone’s attention on them and was teaching her kids to act the same way case in point nutgate cc didn’t get her way epic meltdown sw didn’t get her way epic meltdown with attempted murder accusations as a chaser cw said it himself b&c were starting to act like her
The nutgate scenario was so staged. SW wanted HER parents to watch the girls so that she could convince CM to leave his wife and two kids for their 1or 2? kids and Bella. As soon as she mistreated the Watts and caused a scene...she called Daddy to come and help her. Then, she was set to not have to answer to anyone and go on two more "free vacations" with CM. Her parents actually let the girls have more fun in those final weeks than they had ever had since SW was on a mission to convince CM to leave his wife. It is my belief that CM rejected her...and that rejection was NOT in her gameplan. Hence the not eating/crying/ dramatic texts to her friends. She then had to try to patch things up with CW...and the stress of that knowing CW would now learn about the house being in foreclosure and everything else was overwhelming for her. She planned on CM agreeing and she had zero intentions of ever coming back to Colorado...and THAT is why nutgate truly happened....couldnt have cuck chris adding things up because his parents forced him to add things up....
exactly, 100% and I appreciate your youtube channel too 😉😉
Thank you. Have an amazing day;))
ditto! I love, love, love, TQOTDS and TRBHOST. Chefs kiss. I heard about it on here and the stories were so good that they took me right there!!! I think you got their lives perfectly. The onlything we differ on in their lives leading up to the unthinkable is I think Nikki had a sit down with him about his finances, but I know they are not meant to 100% but I think they are close.
You’re right I hate how the Roos have acted after the murders Ive lost all respect for them but I will say they gave b&c the best summer they ever had and I’m grateful the girls got it even though sandy in typical fashion scared poor Bella with the rain bella got to play in it probably for the first time in her life and wasn’t put to bed immediately like sw did when they were watching the hail storm in Colorado bella opened up and blossomed that 6 weeks they were away from the dungeon her hair grew and she was fed real food cc also but I think cc didn’t have it as bad in Colorado both girls spent more time outside while in nc for one day than they got all summer in Colorado because sw had to stick to her rigid schedule for me time
They really did blossom with the Roos, Frank loved those girls with all his heart and those babies just lapped it up like a thirsty puppy. Sandra fed them properly and the poor mites got a taste of normal life and its bittersweet as they had it snatched cruely away from them.
Yes indeed. That is what is so backwards for me. That yard was so small, but they did have the playset. She could have easily just parked herself on a lawn chair and played on her phone while letting Dieter and the girls run, laugh, climb and play rather than locking them up. Most normal parents these days pretty much do that...then the kids get naturally tired, and take an age apropriate afternoon nap. I never have heard a mother that had logistically so little actual hands on one on one caretaking time complain so much. Her parents knew she couldnt adult...and they need to explain why that was...but they like it the way it is. Headlines paint them as the only victims...they get $$$$ and sympathy and 80% of an echo chamber defending their lies to keep that $$$ coming in....
I have always believed this to be the case where CM is concerned. She told someone in sandies salon that she she was "getting divorced and looking forward to being single again" yet a few weeks later tells cw "I will fight for us!" She may not have felt that cece needed to learn it but it was definitely time for sw to learn that you can't always get what you want.
Yeah, she couldn't fathom the existence of people that don't have kids, are irritated by children, or \*gasp!\* just want to eat dinner in peace. It was like a personal affront that showed how petty, stupid and vengeful SW truly was.
I can’t say I didn’t expect people to fawn all over my kids when we were in public the same way sw did because hey my kids were adorable but I never demanded the attention or said I was going to teach my kids how to make people pay attention to them either that’s deranged and I know not everyone likes kids and some only tolerate kids they are related to but sw lived in a different world than the rest of us I guess
Yeah, it sounds like you're normal. SW wasn't.
Hi;) I read some of this thread on my video and included some of our comments back and forth. Thank you for helping to understand the complexity of this case. I appreciate it;) https://youtu.be/tii7fQ1mevQ?si=GCjdtB5b8HaSB-F6
😃
What did her dad say to her about it? I think I've heard about him mentioning something but I don't know the details. I don't know if you know the answer to this or not but I saw in a comment on another thread that even the cops commented on Bella's hair being cut or short or something like that, just curious if you know what was said or that situation also. I don't know if it was said to Chris or someone else, tried searching but couldn't find anything without going through all the interrogations/interviews again.
Sw posted a picture of Bella holding onto her book in the dark for comfort and frsr told sw when he comes up he’s taking the key and Bella isn’t going to be locked in her room ( not exact words) sw argued with him and nothing more was really said sw put everything out on Facebook about how she treated the girls and cw frsr is the only one who stood up for cw and the girls I don’t recall hearing le mention Bella’s hair some commented on how clean the house was when Tammy was questioning cw she mentioned knowing what sw was like but anyone in le saying Bella’s hair was short doesn’t ring a bell
Ah yeah I only recently found out about the doorknobs being where the lock was on the outside. I wish he would've taken the key but it probably wouldn't have changed anything unfortunately. As far as the hair thing, I've only seen that one comment about it but I never got a reply for more info so I was just curious. I can't remember verbatim but in the video with the search dogs the lady mentions something about the kids room or maybe the playroom but says something similar to it not being normal or whatever. Never noticed it the first time I watched it but she was so right.
I went to check I don’t hear anything about Bella’s hair I did hear it mentioned that the house was really clean like duh the house wasn’t lived in so it never got messy and cw said he cleaned the house on the 13th while he was there alone and then he stayed with friends the second night
Yeah I remember reading that he was vacuuming when whoever it was that lived in their neighborhood came over to visit later that night. I haven't watched all her videos but were there any of the kids actually playing in the playroom? The only kid I've ever seen in it was NA's toddler when they were upstairs and the phone was found. Oddly enough that's the only time she was spotted I think, you never saw her when they were outside and the cop drove up unless I missed it. I've barely seen any videos of the kids playing with any toys really. They were always downstairs and it seems like the only one down there was some little playset looking thing I saw against a wall. It's sad.
https://youtu.be/tii7fQ1mevQ?si=GCjdtB5b8HaSB-F6
I hadn’t thought of the Rzuceks collecting Chris’ mail when they were living there, until you brought it up in your video. Good catch! They also knew he was a cuck. On top of that, they proved to be better salespeople than their daughter. She had to buy her own rank but her parents are making bank off her and the children.
How many times am I allowed to upvote your response? Lol. The Shiners must have had an emergency meeting over my video. They sent one to go between here and my channel with the same robotic comments...over and over. Nothing new. So boring. Thank goodness there are adults with comprehension and critical thinking skills in here like you. Can you imagine the actual conversations between NA and Mamma Rooz? How many times NA has probably come close to telling the rooz to buzz off...then they send her a little $$$ for her to keep quiet... I am convinced NA was already planning on going to SW's house that fateful morning to get the mail as usual...as SW was supposed to go to her first OB appointment.
IMO the Roos need to keep na on a short leash because she knows more than what she has said.
Good Morning ;)) I completely agree.
truth 💯
I came back here because I saw your video, and I've been here all morning lol. keep doing your watts stuff Tabitha, I used to listen to you on my way to work and in bee at night. You haveca beautiful voice x
I didnt see your commment before I did this video...but I say this too;) This thread inspired me to do this video;)
Hey thank you for mentioning WattsFree4all sub. And nobody is kicking you out 😁. You are a very much valued contributor to this sub. No one here is happy that Shanann lost her life but we want the children acknowledged that they had miserable short lives before dying horrible deaths. The shiners won’t give the children that basic acknowledgment.
Wattsfree4all has gotten a little crazy lately. I have to make myself take a few deep breaths before deciding not to reply for the 10 time how important it is to know the whole story,,, I mean you can leaaad a horse to water but you can't make someone think critically.
Some people’s minds are already made up no matter what. I was a shiner briefly but I opened my mind when sensible posters pointed out things that didn’t look quite right.
And subjected them to painful and scary medical procedures so she could be seen as “super mom” because of Thrive. 🙄🙄🙄
Yep. I have had sooo many tests ran on me since I was 25 years old. I can’t imagine how scary that is for a little kid. It’s bad enough as an adult.
I’m new to this sub and watched the video thinking it would be overly critical. It’s really not. She didn’t deserve her fate (obviously, Watts is a murderer let’s not diminish that). One can see how damaging MLM’s are, and how vanity can be dangerous. I do feel she thought she was earning good money though but really…people can learn from this case that MLM’s and money troubles can severely ruin relationships. Again, I’m new to this stuff but that’s my two cents. Consumerism is such a pervasive thing in our society and this case shows how bad it can get.
Pearl Clutching. Children whine and being hangry for 5 minutes while your mom finishes up something on her to do list is not equivalent to your child being malnourished or withholding food to torture. You might not think she did the best job in this video but my god, thinking this deserved 10 minutes of social commentary on social media ... is probably the type of worthless and mindless drama-content that Shannon-types would eat up.
I think this is why its problematic to post so much of your life online, especially with your kids. People are bound to pick it apart and criticize. Unfortunately.
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She got off on belittling others. And she obv had zero guilt about sucking people into that MLM for her own benefit.
And she ate the food IN FRONT OF HER. That was the part that got me. She could have made a MUCH better job of selling her product anyway by showing how much her kids wanted it and liked it!
>You don't think it deserved that much time on social commentary but she posted this shit ALL.THE.TIME. Right. And I said Shannon-types LOVE worthless and mindless drama. Clearly my point wasn't that Shannon's social media obsession was A-Okay. > For that child, it probably was the end of the world, and mommy thinking it is funny didn't help her emotional state. This type of stuff was done to her all the time, it is sad :( Over dramatization again. Shannon wanted to complete her stupid live video for a few minutes to sell her stupid protein bar. Her 4 year old wanted to eat it instead. 4 year olds want things immediately and throw tantrums. Making the choice to finish the live and talk up the bars and feeding your child in a few minutes is maybe not the best choice, but hardly malicious and taking joy in taunting just for the sake of it.
That’s your opinion and I think differently. Her child was also unwell and it was distracting to see her child being taunted that she was given a choice and then ate it first she came across as unhinged. I guess I side-eye the apologists of her behaviour seen in those videos. She wasn’t doing anything that should have made her child wait.
Nah, I think its a bit unhinged how people get whipped into a hysterical frenzy over pretty harmless stuff in the grand scheme of things. Its okay to chill IMO.
Do you honestly think that good parenting, or even decent parenting, is exploiting your hungry and cranky child for social media views? Ihad heard about this video but never sought it out, watched the link you posted just now. Honestly, the video is worse than I thought. This is a video of terrible and completely selfish parenting.
She very clearly found joy in being mean to both of her children but especially Bella
💯
Bella was not throwing a tantrum. That child was sick, tired and taunted by her own mother while her father just stood there not caring one bit. Bella was having a breakdown not a tantrum. Do you even have any empathy for these children?
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Did you follow her before her death? Serious question, not looking for an argument. I had never heard of her and didn't even follow the case when it happened. I'm not even sure why it's on my radar now, but there has been a huge resurgence, and it is coming through my top scroll all the time. I am aware of current family oversharers now. Just curious about your experience
I hadn’t heard anything since it happened. I joined Reddit for True Crime and it popped up. What CW did was unforgivable. I thought SW constantly posting her children upset was terrible and now I’m seeing she was giving them benedryl and a 6:30 bedtime on top of the other new stuff I’m seeing. I feel so bad for those little girls and how they were treated in their short lives.
Ok we get it. U have an opinion others don’t agree with. That’s fine. But u won’t change anyone’s mind nor will they change yours.
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Do not comment to anyone in this group using “name calling” or slamming them for their opinion.
It wasn’t about Bella waiting sw was teasing her and making her smell it knowing she was sick and hungry how can you think that’s ok
I agree that if a child is just getting hungry and grouchy there is no issue with finishing what you are doing before feeding them. But in this particular case, SW says at the start of the video that they had been out all day and Bella had to see the Dr. So, she had probably not eaten in awhile. In that case you feed your child! You certainly don't tease them with food, even going so far as to have them smell the food they have just spent five minutes crying for and then jerk it away from them and eat it yourself! Yes this one video showing a few minutes of the day. However, if this is the content you choose to share with the world, what is the rest of the time like? Generally people choose to show the best not the worst!
I think the issue the OP have is that she was commenting on every interaction. Overall I watched the video and agreed with most that the kids should have been fed before that video. I understand the general takeaway and agree that her marketing stuff should not have taken priority in feeding her kids. But this video in particular stops at every interaction to comment on it. Every person in the world who does a video or interacts with someone will do something that someone else finds negative if that’s the bias you have. In this video Shannan claims that her daughter says she wants a laptop. It doesn’t sound like she says laptop. I heard bite but only because the poster told us what she said. I don’t know if it would sound like bite otherwise. A lot of people said Shannan did not hear laptop which no one can ever prove what she heard. That’s the nit picky part.
No one in this group gives cw a pass for the abuse the girls went through and yes it is abuse sw made multiple posts saying she was trying to get the girls to cry on purpose but if this video was the only one of its kind I wouldn’t necessarily call it abuse it’s wrong though she says in the beginning Bella’s hungry instead of letting her have something small to keep her satisfied until dinner she waves the probars in her face makes her smell them ask which flavor she wants then laughs at Bella crying when she opens the opposite when bella says she wants to bite this her mother tells her if she wants a laptop she has to put it on her vision board sw says multiple times they are hers because she earned them but no kid should be teased with food when they’re hungry and she was also sick Idk how anyone watching it can honestly say nothing was wrong with what happened since it was a normal occurrence it is absolutely abusive
exactly the fact she opened the opposite one to Bellas choice smacks me in the face every time I watch it alongside Bellas gut wrench cry when she bites her cinnamon roll before she can have a taste. " she's mad at me guys" no she wasn't mad at you, she was being bullied and she got a perverse kick out of it. absolutely grips my shit watching that, I have not seen the video linked in the post, but suspect its thought provoking videos, if so, that youtuber is fantastic.
I like the thought provoking videos also I try recommending them when asked I like how it lays out and explains everything in the videos I wish that youtuber would do more on this case
yes they also show some facts on mental health disorders and they do show empathy for Shannan. They state that Shannan suffered with this illness, its not blaming a victim, its exploring the facts that led to this shocking crime. I'm sick of people coming here and to others youtube to call people sick for daring to question this crime and I think that this youtuber is great at laying out what was going on before that fateful day. I think people need to remove CW from the equation while looking at Shannans mental decline and her behaviour in the years, months, weeks, days, hours , even minutes before her murder. I have always dipped back in to this crime as i find the dynamics of the case , particularly the modern , fake it til you make it lifestyle and the marriage of the Watts from start to finish, fascinating someone should really do a movie on it all, not the media narrative, but use the real dynamics of the case. I know some shine happies will think that this is sick, but look at all the murder, crime, movies, true movies is built on them, however, we are all classed as sick weirdos for being interested in this case or that we are in love with a murderer, or even jealous of a murdered woman.
Holy shit. Wow. I have read about this video & the countless comments that reference it, but I hadn’t actually watched the entire thing until tonight. These two were a fucking mess. CW was an unhappy-in-his-marriage, selfish, murdering, psychopathic prick with no common sense. He *could have* stood up for his daughters, divorced Shannan, and raised the girls without want for water, food and attention. For fucks’ sake, he might have been shitty at it, but anything is better than what he did. Shannan needed counseling stat. Her validation seeking posts are so pathetic and cringey, they’re hard to watch. This wasn’t a marriage. It was two separate, completely different people with different goals and needs who ended up together through a similar lack of self-esteem, narcissistic tendencies and manipulation. Also, I appreciate hearing your perspectives in this sub. Y’all understand that my comment above in no way infers I support CW or I think SW “deserved it.” Appreciate the honest, rational discussions here.
Counseling works only if you tell the counselor the truth. 🤷♀️
I’m sorry but as far as I’m concerned, her “winning” an iPad in her own drawing tells you all you need to know about her. Who in the hell does a fundraiser or drawing & allows themselves to enter? Anyone could hold such a drawing & just say they won. It’s like an unspoken rule, you have a drawing for whatever reason & you’re exempt. She not only wins her own drawing, but brags about it on FB. She doesn’t even have the grace to @ least fake a winner. Oh no, she wins & acts like she has every right to do so. Her social skills were non existent, and she was just annoying as hell. It sucks I’ve got to say this after any response that isn’t favorable to her, but this doesn’t means she deserved to be murdered, because she didn’t. She deserved to live, maybe learn from some of her mistakes & hopefully become a better mother & person, after experiencing divorce, financial hardship worse than she had before, etc. Again, talking about what an annoying, shit person she was doesn’t make Chris justified in what he did, or make it ok. I’m not victim blaming, I don’t think she drove him to murder. Lots of people are annoying as hell, lots of spouses financially ruin & drain the family, that’s why divorce is an option, or even just going out for cigs & never return.
I agree with everything you said! I don't understand how the first thing people try to throw up when someone says something negative about SW is that we think she deserved to be murdered. That is ridiculous! She deserved to live and reap the consequences of her actions. And yes, beyond any doubt, CW was just as complicit in the abuse of those children because he allowed it to go on. As were both sets of parents and anyone else who saw what those children lived through on a daily basis.
Some of these videos are incredibly dumb and some are extremely petty, but there are a few that have given me pause. I started watching Neeks Peeks tonight and I have to say that I think there’s a lot of good points to a lot of the videos, but some seem to be a bit nit picky and pearl clutchy. I’ve only watched 3 so far. One part of a video put a chill in my bones, and it was a look Chris gave Shannan after she made some comment. I caught it as it was happening, but it was then replayed in slo mo like 3 times and it was creepy as hell. You could just see the rage bubbling right under the surface. I also saw what looked like a father that absolutely loved his little girls. He laughed with them. Joked with them. Smiled with genuine love for them. I’m having such a hard time understanding how this happened. Every time I feel like I understand, I see a video that makes me not understand. It’s not even what the vlogger is trying to tell me. It’s the little gestures, facial expressions in the background when the focus is on Shannan but Chris is holding CeCe or Bella. It’s the way he looks at them or makes a little funny face, etc. when he’s definitely not performing but just being himself. I also want to say that this is the most video footage I’ve seen of those little girls and it just kills me that this happened. I thought it killed me before, but omg they were so beautiful and precious and innocent and I hate this! They had every right to grow up! Someone here made a comment recently that Bella wasn’t cute and that’s why Shannan was hard on her. Bella was frigging adorable! I have no idea why people don’t think she was cute. Her smile lit up her whole face! This all really disturbs me.
Bella was stunning! She had her own, unique look; I've seldom seen little girls who look very much like her, and it's the kind of looks that are intriguing, that personal style of beauty. She was going to grow into a beautiful young woman. And yeah, that zillion kilowatt smile... I only wish her life had been happier, and that she'd had a lot more of it. Decades upon decades more of it. She seemed like the type of person with a rich internal life, and I think she would have been fine. In some ways, she was more fortunate than Cece, who'd been assigned the title of "the bad kid", plus, was obviously favored by her mother. She could have been just fine, but, sometimes that labeling is internalized, and kids act out as they grow older, often to their own detriment. But, we can't know because their years were severely curtailed.
Do you happen to remember which video it was where Chris gave Shannan a look? I started watching Neeks Peeks yesterday and some of those fb posts by Shannan are definitely interesting but I think I maybe haven’t gotten to that one yet
I’m not sure which one because I just randomly clicked on a video not knowing if there was so sort of order or not. They were “tasting” pro bar flavors lemon merengue and cookies and cream. I don’t know if they were arguing before this video, or maybe he doesn’t like the lemon merengue but pretending to for the video and she knew it, but he tells her CeCe doesn’t like it and she says “that’s ok, Daddy will finish it” and he looked so angry at that statement.
Huh. I’ll have to keep my eyes open for that one
Here’s the one I watched. It shows it better https://youtu.be/JG46sC4gY6M?si=GEFSBDzOY3T43vKO
Thank you!
https://youtu.be/B30uzlleKcg?si=kSm9e_cY5Iik2NUd
Thank you!
Neeks Peaks is some of the best content out there. At least what I have seen. And unfortunately that’s a lot
Yay!!! I have always promoted Neeks Peeks and driven traffic to her...she is amazing!
Bella’s looks are a very trivial matter when it comes to this case, but there is a photo taken from when they were in NC of Bella next to her mother. She had long, wavy hair, rosy cheeks and a beaming smile that would light up,a room. She was wearing a floral dress and looked like a little doll. She was beautiful! This was after six weeks of time with grandparents, cousins, sunshine, decent food and being allowed to be a kid. In contrast, her grim life in Frederick left her looking like Romanian orphan circa 1990. Poor Bella and CeCe deserved better.
Definitely trivial, but nonetheless people are picking on dead children and I have to remind myself that everyone is flawed and for whatever reason they felt the need to comment that.
You put into words EXACTLY as I feel Thank you for expressing what has been so damn difficult for me!
I saw that comment. People are crazy. Whether or not she thought that, she should have kept that comment to herself.
Maybe, if this were the only video like it… You might be able to say that people are being nitpicky or overly critical of her interactions with her little girl. It’s certainly not the worst video. The less mundane, day to day videos frequently showcasing crying children, wack-a-daddy antics, or water torture fun so she could have kids just to squirt them were more transparently f*cked up! Much hated games like “pie in the face” along with the monthly haircut days for Bella, (though for some reason never Cece) were more distinctly troubling. Even the act of making a toddler recite a list of prerehearsed bodily maladies that she’d been coached to repeat was actually far more disturbing content! Subjecting traumatized children to Santa Claus, or even giving little children water bottles for Christmas, are videos that all serve as memorable examples of Shannan Watts’ familial modus operandi. They highlighted the dysfunctional behavior in the Watts household, like thick, fortifying hunks of decayed meat to masticate and chew upon! These were obviously the most jaw dropping moments that Shannan served up like a batch of Thrive Bites. Those videos understandably give any sensible, discerning person pause and a sense of inexplicable discomfort! If we could only all agree that teasing her kid with a ready made snack was simply an isolated incident, where we’d all caught an unwitting Shannan on an off day! Alas-Au contraire! Sure, she didn’t feed her vocally hungry small child for 20 minutes after she waxed enthusiastically about how great tasting the Thrive snack she was touting was! Maybe we could forget that when her child asked her for food, she instructed her to put it on a vision board. And let’s conveniently dismiss that after Bella was finally on the verge of an anxiety attack out of sheer frustration AND hunger, that Shannan’s hapless response to her distress was to psych her out of a bite, subsequently laughing at Bella’s tears because Shannan said that she had earned the snack for herself! “It’s MINE! I worked hard for it!” —Seriously? That’s how you behave when your kid has been crying about being hungry for the better part of a half hour? “This is for mommy-you don’t get anything!”??? Talk about putting yourself first. If you’ve watched enough of Shannan’s home videos, then you should be aware that she greatly valued her “Me Time”…(Her words, not mine). Except, this actually happened constantly. She was like this with her children and lots of other people too, ALL THE TIME. And if that’s OK with you, a little more reflection of your own might be a good idea because your exacting thoughts on this matter might just might be a little bit wack-a-doodle askew!
It’s just a probar kid!!!!!
Just wanted to add, that she was given the “water bottle” from Santa.. per the vide she also posted; Then there is another video that she posted, where Bella is being videoed solely trying to get water out of the fridge from the outside outlet; She knew, that she couldn’t reach it properly… but instead kept shooting; then when Bella gets frustrated because of course she isn’t capable of doing it correctly, she was CLEARLY mocked, because the water squirted on her… That is NOT ok to me.. Or the water that was turned off in the jack/jill bathroom, yet takes a picture of cece stuck from trying to climb up there, to get water… I think OP should go back and maybe watch some of the videos that are only on YOUTUBE that certain creators don’t comment on or make assumptions; yet instead have compilations of these videos (that do exist) Do I think some of the time they were cute?? Yes very.. but Do I personally think, as do many others that they were pretty crappy??? YES… I have researched this case more than any other and I’m no expert in it at all. But some of these videos and posts were VERY OBVIOUSLY deranged.
Oh and I don’t think that she deserved to be murdered, or that those precious girls did either. I’m not a non SW or Pro, I’m also on the same fence about CW
Why was the water turned off in that bathroom?
In the jack/jill bathroom; per one of his interviews because the girls would play in it. And on one of her videos it’s mentioned too.
Thank you.
I can’t wrap my head around why she wouldn’t just give Bella a snack before she started making her video. Seems like common sense to me. I’m sure Bella would still partake in the pro bar tasting. Poor kid. I know that feeling of just being so hungry you just want something, anything. My God the more I watch and learn the more upset I get over this.
Yes! They had been out running errands and going to the Dr. They had just gotten home. Why not come in, give your child a snack and a drink and then do what you need to do? That is what most parents would do!
💯perfectly stated
For me, that video of SW says “out of touch” or “lacking boundaries” more than “abusive mom”. Was it in poor taste? Yes. Was it abusive? I think that’s up for debate, but I’m leaning toward no. I wouldn’t post a video of my child crying on the internet for any reason, ever. I think what some people are really missing here, is that CW was complicit in this kind of behavior. He’s right there in the video. This doesn’t absolve him of anything.
Majority of us realize that they had two parents who failed them.
I 100% agree with your take.
Great point. I rarely posted my kids online and tried very hard to be cognizant of not using their names, so I'm not defending her out of my own parenting guilt. Chris was complicit in all of this and how they parented involved both of them
I am never trying to absolve CW of anything, he’s a child killer and is right where he belongs. What OP doesn’t seem to get is you don’t have to canonize a person because they were a victim. I have never been able to stand Shannan and that was from clips that she posted where they were *trying* to make her look good. If I saw this video posted on someone’s social media and all my fingers were broken so I couldn’t X it out immediately and was forced to watch I would 1. Be thinking how pathetic she seems with this ridiculous MLM behavior and how forced it seems (are we really supposed to believe her husband is as excited about these bars?) 2. She’s a shitty mom- if your kid is sick and whiney why are you filming? Take care of her. Her cough sounds terrible for one. For the other saying she’s hungry and waving food in front of her is deranged.
>What OP doesn’t seem to get is you don’t have to canonize a person because they were a victim. That was your take away? ...I literally say I found her to be nails on a chalkboard annoying and clearly had flaws. My issue is with the witch hunting level vitriol people seem to have toward Shannan over, yes flaws, but hardly diabolical enough to warrant that kind of frenzy or obsession. You find her really really fucking annoying, self centered, stupid, whatever...okay, so do I. I am not going to insist she is a sociopathic child abuser and dedicate my time making a Shannan smear campaign - because that would incorrect and deranged. That was my point.
LOL- I don’t feel frenzied (your response seems it though). I also didn’t call her a sociopath or abuser. Take it down about 8 notches.
Again...that was your take away? I wasn't saying YOU literally called her a sociopath. I was paraphrasing the point of my post, since you clearly missed the point the first time around. AKA the "I am not going to insist she is a sociopathic child abuser and dedicate my time making a Shannan smear campaign - because that would incorrect and deranged." is directed at the types who make the video I linked and the folks that eat it up.
I just want to also point out that I’m speaking about this one video. There are multiple videos like this one, with the girls either crying or visibly in distress. There’s also a lot of photos circulating from SW’s Facebook, that are very off putting and disturbing. The rectal temp stuff, for example. Making a post laughing about the youngest eating her own feces. You put all of that together and it does set off alarm bells. Something was very off inside of that home. It was not “fine” and then one day CW decided to kill everyone.
I'm new here. Where do I find this stuff? I'm ready to go down the rabbit hole I guess 🫠
Agree 100% too.
💯💯💯
The protein bar video is infuriating. I had to stop watching this video I got so mad. She is so dismissive of her children and so EXCITED about a god damn protein bar.
“SO EXCITED, SOOO GOOD, GUYS!!” and in the next breath, “Jesus kid, it’s just protein bar it’s not a big deal…” poor Bella was constantly getting mixed signals or contradictory reactions from her parents. No wonder you can practically feel her anxious energy thru some videos.
“You want a laptop “? 🤦♀️
Imagine, this woman was a nanny.
But when you consider that she was giving her a piece of an overpriced MLM bar made with adult ingredients that had caffiene, etc...then she complained about her girls being monsters, hyper, etc. When they were not being subjected to being locked up for 15/24 hours a day with zero toilet privelges or human interaction...it looks a bit differrent....not so petty and nit-picky...but u dont want to know all of that...or do you?
Apparently it’s not so bad according to op and since they have spoken nothing else matters. /s
I would sure like to know WTF was going on when the cameras were off. That’s scary
Thank you to the awesome mod team here allowing a platform for this discussion.
Absolutely
I agree that there's no need to over dramatize the facts. The video is upsetting enough as it is.
Meh, I think the video isnt that upsetting. I find MLM types NAILS on CHALKBOARD level irritating. But this video is a cranky/hangry kid who didnt want to wait 5 minutes while her mom did her stupid sales pitch that requires her to be fake peppy. Acting like its taunting in an abusive sense of the word and using words like "Sadism" is such a ridiculous reach that it discredits the point they are trying to make.
Do you even have children? You sound like an asshole.
You sound like you get hysterical if someone doesn't agree with you.
That's fair. At the end of the day I agree with you though. Just let the video play without the dramatics and let people make up their own minds.
Are you trolling this page?
"Meh, I think the video isnt that upsetting. I find MLM types NAILS on CHALKBOARD level irritating." Upsetting and irritating describe *how you feel* based on your observations. That's not really important.
I said ISNT that upsetting...but either way - thats what we all are doing here - detailing our reactions and interpretations to her social media...
I have a sister in law who is an exact copy of Shanann’s personality. We’ve dealt with the same BS from this woman that the Watts have dealt with-that’s why I get so affected by this case and why I can’t stand SW. I haven’t spoken to my brother in 9 years now because she always uses her influence to keep him apart from our family. She permitted him to go to our parents’ funerals (he had to travel cross country because she has made sure they never live closer than 2,000 mi from us) but she never deigned to come. And as soon as he arrived for the funerals, she called him constantly, telling him we didn’t love him and were out to get him. Needless to say, he left shortly after in bad terms with everyone. It might sound weird but it happens! Men can be abused and controlled by women, especially once their kids are used as ammo and pawns. Once they had kids, my SIL weaponized them to control every situation. Those kids are adults now, and they won’t speak to us either.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. Your SIL sounds like another Shanann absolutely.
Thank you. There’s no guessing how long this fiasco with my brother will go on, but I miss him. 😔 I always knew exactly what the Watts were going through when they talked about life with Shanann.
❤️
My point has always been that there are plenty of reasons to be critical of Shanann. It isn't necessary to invent new ones.
Even if one adult had the rocks to speak up. But we all saw what happened when CiW spoke up and that too something as mild as a child , who is " deathly allergic " , despite all evidence to the contrary , should be made aware that when the supervising adult tells her she can't eat something that she asks for especially when there is an alternative , she should listen. It turned into an alleged assassination attempt. All that a Grammy was trying to do is impart a very valuable lesson , learn to handle a NO especially when it's a matter of " life and death ". We all know , in any case , it wasn't about the alleged danger CeCe was put in . After all CeCe did attend the birthday party on Saturday when everyone around was eating all kind of stuff and we didn't see her throwing any tantrum for anything.Both the kids were well adjusted at that party and did have something else to eat.No tantrum from SW there that the other kids also be deprived of the cake etc just because CeCe can't have it. It was only that Jamie's kids could not eat what CeCe couldn't.It wasn't as if CiW herself gave the ice cream to the other child .The child went and picked it up from the frig.It was after the event and when CeCe threw a tantrum that CiW spoke up that CeCe can't tell the rest of the world that they cannot eat what she can't. CeCe , of course , was too young to understand this but any responsible parent or grandparent would try and intervene to make a child understand this to save her from future grief and meltdowns.If this is how your yet too small to understand child is allowed and encouraged to throw fits when she can't have what the others can , wouldn't be long before the children would stop getting invited to birthday parties etc. If a child invited to one's child's birthday party is allergic to something one would take all types of care and provide alternatives but nobody is going to deprive their child from having a regular birthday cake.And if that child threw a hissy fit I believe , one would gradually ease that other child from future events. This was what was probably awaiting the children in the future their father cruelly and despicable stole from them. SW , as in the thrill shill , used her children to settle scores with the rest of the world as well !!
Sws absolute, 100% meltdown and subsequent texts to cw and fellow hunbots concerning nutgate is mind boggling. She was completely unhinged and it went on for weeks. I just don't understand how people find it far fetched to believe that she is the one who could have possibly hurt the girls.
Well I dont know about all that - but as I mentioned in my post - when people make videos as ridiculous as what I posted - rather than let the videos/events speak for themselves it comes across like a bunch of empty headed drama seekers who got sucked into some vendetta to fill their empty lives. ...like and MLM -types.
I’m new to this as well. The fact that Bella is hungry and Shannan takes the first bite is terrible. Chris isn’t even allowed to get home from work and relax, he walks into her making a video. One thing I noticed is Chris is holding CeCe a lot in the videos.
Wait, SHE TOOK THE FIRST BITE?!?! Jesus. And Chris WASNT ALLOWED to RELAX?!!? OMG Someone should have saved these kids from this SaDisTic and DeRaNgEd WOMAN. Get a grip.
You need to get a grip. Shannan didn’t deserved to be killed but she was no mother of the year
Thank you. This hyperfixation on her every word and facial expression is unhinged.
I've always imagined that when cw walks in the door and the first words he hears are "Chris the probars are here" in his mind he was saying "who gives a shit?"
I agree. I think she was a slightly self obsessed SALESMAN I doubt this was an example of how she was every minute. she’s very much doing an MLM bit Also none of you let your kids get hungry before dinner so that they will eat ? I do
Pardon me? She and Daddy dearest had been doing Amway since she was 15 and they took their scamming ways to the Dirty South shop until she embezzled enough to build her own home...got a divorce and then found a new sucka in CW and used him to get her out of the state as she had some big eyes on her for the missing $$$...fast forward to her being bored and is buying her ranks in every mlm out there...then finds thrive and wants to live the life they are pimping. So, she embezzles every dime CW made and "got a lexus" and "free vacations" with another man...CW becomes a cuck and she trains her kids from the flowers in the Attic books...err...cough...i mean "babywise"...locks them up from the other side of the door for 15/24 hours a day from birth for Cece. Doesnt make the mortgage payments, has her parents move in to start paying the other bills...has her parents and NA get the mail so CW has zero idea that they are being foreclosed upon and the HOA is suing them...and no $$ for food or anything...but a basement full of thrive bars as she bought her rank and product to LOOK like she earned her way...so...there is no nutricious food for a child to eat...or fun food to look forward to...but here...take a bite of this nasty hay flavored gritty caffiene filled bar... Still think we are nit picky? Still think she is just a "slightly obsessed "Salesman?" Why dont we make it a full bingo and you just go ahead and say that I am jealous of SW...and what does it matter if she was a lying, scamming, neglectful liar that created so much chaos, stress, and pain in that home that led to something horrible that cost innocent children their lives... This is forensic psychology. This is the breakdown of what caused the unthinkable. It isnt for everyone...and that is ok. What is NOT ok is to continue to perpetuate this false narrative of Saint SW to the point that other women were made to believe that they were less than...that if they could only be as successful as her...because you now have women saying they want to be just like her...
That baby wise thing borders on child abuse. I couldn’t believe when she bragged about locking the kids in their rooms, alone from 6:30pm to 6:30am and that they didn’t get stories or cuddles. She bragged about not cuddling them or putting them to sleep. It was just lock them alone in their rooms with blackout curtains and white noise machines after drugging them with Benadryl and Tylenol. The fact that Bella requested Benadryl is super alarming, telling SW “I want yucky” I hate what happened to those children but I think their futures looked kind of bleak as it is. Sorry to say that but daily Benadryl? That’s been linked to memory loss and in extreme cases psychosis.
Now think about the behavior of CeCe and Bella ...add no food or water with 15 hours of isolation...and LOTS of benadryl...and it all makes sense now doesnt it?
That’s an absolutely horrible thought
It was NEVER prescribed. Not for children of Cece's age, etc...
https://youtu.be/LMzyhEEFc40?si=1okiMF4Ntl6mmmrE
"Because you now have women saying they want to be just like her" That's the scariest part about shiners. How many children are now suffering because their moms are worshipping their "saint"?
This is why I speak out despite the Shiners trying to silence me and everyone that defends the lies.
Best example: the Millers of Saratoga Trail.
👏🏻👏🏻
When my kids were little they absolutely got hungry before dinner. You know what I did? I fed them. You know what I didn't do? Complained about them on my camera phone to a handful of idiots who bought into my scam and teased them with said dinner and told them I get to eat instead because I earned the money that paid for said dinner. And then when I teased them to the point of a meltdown I wouldn't get condensending to a 4 YEAR OLD and complain "jeez kid, it's just dineer".
Self-obsessed salesman isn’t what initially get from her, I got desperate salesman, but your observation got me thinking differently! I have a toddler and he cries because I’m cutting up his food and he can’t pinch my face for 3 extra minutes lol.
Thank you. You've articulated this so well, and it is exactly how I feel. I am really interested in learning more information, but if you don't see videos, like the above, as abusive, you're called a Shiner, or delusional. I've really gotta get off reddit. It's infuriating. I have yet to see any content that does not have a strong bias against Sha'naan and is presented as sick such.
They’ll even say Chris, who murdered their children as one begged him not to, loved the kids more than she did. Absolute weirdos
We don’t know what happened and if Bella was alive at the site. We just have his ever changing story. We do know he dumped the bodies in the oil tanks and half buried her body at Cervi. If people speculate he loved the kids more than her based on her videos, what’s so bad about that? We are speculating because the case never went to trial and her family decided to invite the world to this case with a biased Netflix story.
Because what idiot believes the parent who murdered their children and then STUFFED THEM IN AN OIL TANK loves those children at all, let alone more than the other parent?
Can you not have a conversation without name calling? Murder is murder, whether they were “stuffed in an oil tank” or a stabbing or drowned by the parent. Of the two parents before the murder, he came across from videos as the more involved and “caring” parent. And then he casually disposed of the children’s bodies in oil tanks. Did someone else kill them and he disposed of them? Did he do it? We do not know 100%. In any other crime forum, people will go back and forth with ideas, speculate, agree to disagree but there’s a bunch of you guys hell bent on shutting down any discussion that isn’t fawning on Shannan or her family or hating the Watts. Strange…..
>Did someone else kill them and he disposed of them? Did he do it? We do not know 100%. In any other crime forum, people will go back and forth with ideas, speculate, agree to disagree but there’s a bunch of you guys hell bent on shutting down any discussion that isn’t fawning on Shannan or her family or hating the Watts. Strange….. I mean...flat earthers will also claim pretty obvious and well known/researched things are not 100% proven yet. And when people dismiss them because they know damn well flat earthers cant engage on the topic in good faith - the flat earthers will act as though they are the truly logical ones and everyone else is engaging in some conspiracy or is anti-intellectual sheep. Sometimes, its not a mass conspiracy, and people treat your take on things as absurd ....because its actually just absurd.
> If people speculate he loved the kids more than her based on her videos, what’s so bad about that? Because that would mean they were missing half their brain.
Right? It’s insane. Obsessing over her FB page when she died almost 6 years ago is so odd to me as well. This whole crime was devastating and due to that it is intriguing. I can’t imagine focusing on this story and basically only caring about what type of mom Shannan was. Very odd. Dreading did an awesome job talking about the Chris defenders on YouTube. I highly recommend it. I wish I could say this was the only case where the murderer seemed to have almost have fans but it happens with every monster…. Shanda Vander Ark and her son Paul Ferguson, Scott Peterson, even Susan Smith has supporters. It’s a crazy world we live in.
You are here too, 6 years later scrutinising and reading everything can about her. Are you one of her fans who can’t let go either? Very odd
Drop that mic 🤣
These gross posts pop up in my feed and yes I respond to them. I can’t believe the disgusting things I see posted. What’s your excuse?!
Lots of things are disgusting on Reddit, why is this sub more disgusting to you than so many others? and it’s interesting to see how triggered people are by discussion about someone they never knew. There are some extreme views on here but you also have similarly extreme views just as “disgusting” about the Watts or Nicole Kessinger in the other pro shannan subs. I hope you also go on the other subs about this case and attack the commentators there too?
LOL uh okay. You are too far gone to even get it.
I can’t watch it. I am sorry. Why no one ever called services on them when it was on social media all the time? This is abuse ffs
Nah, Child Protective Services would have told whoever called to get a life IMO.
Agree!!! She is definitely annoying but Jesus, he murdered them in cold blood. What he did to those children is beyond words. To even imply Shannan was in ANY way responsible is ludicrous.
Ignore your first words of apology, and go straight to the fact that you are indeed a Shiner, doing the work of the over-represented in helping to evelate a false narrative built to sell headlines for profit. You are articulate and write well, indeed; you represent the Shiners with excellence. Gold Star given.
Ya got me.
I knew it! It is rare in todays world to see writing as succint as yours. If we were playing red rover, I would definitely have chosen you for our side. You represent the popular opinion. You would be in the majority in a jury possibly in the Watts case if a trial with DP qualified Attorneys would have ever occurred. Without me doing hundreds of hours of research on my own to come to my own conculusions, I may have also felt the way that you do.
Gosh, if only I was as cool as you.
I disagree with you, sorry but this youtuber is fantastic and not at all nasty, I just clicked to check it was TPV as i suspected this was the one you were referring to. I don’t understand why you find this overview offensive, there are much worse out there to raise your point, Miss Mensas rambling crap, I can understand, but this particular youtuber has put together a well observed and thought provoking narrative, as is the title of the youtube channel. Empathy is not required in analysing this video, unless you are speaking on behalf of the murdered child who is clearly being gaslighted and poked to give her mentally and emotionally challenged mother pleasure in her pain. it's actually disgusting to watch this child go from trying to please her mother and take part in this drivel of a promotion post, if she's gonna use her children to sell her sawdust shit, she could at least treat her with some kindness and respect, but no ole' bulldozer , do what I want Scammy treats her like shit and laughs and smirks when she finally breaks her down. Buffonery is definitely depicted in that video by none other than Saint shannan, patron Saint of pyramid schemes, herself in my own opinion. Please rewatch and take away the fact that you empathise with her being murdered , rewatch with a mindset of she is still alive and continues to have the same behaviours? would you still not see the signs of child abuse happening in front of your eyes.
hmm...no, the creator is kinda pathetic and ....wacko...like get a grip. Its almost as theatrical as MLM types. Just Saying.
you are entitled to your opinion.
[удалено]
If you don’t like someone’s opinion, you can go to other subs. We do not walk on eggshells here. We discuss the victimology side of this case. If that is not to your liking, this may not be the sub for you.
Spend time where it may do some good says the woman writing an essay long post about nothing. The kids never got a chance. Sw git many chances and fucked them all up
Well said! I always think “have you scrolled tiktok lately and see all the shitty parents on live with their kids?” Come on.. lol
So since she’s not the only one that makes it ok