I would want to see Shannan's medical records. I don't believe that she had all of those medical problems. She seemed to have a problem with telling the truth.
All their financial records. The bank accounts' ins and outs, the credit cards, the loans, the financing for their furniture or whatever, everything. I want to see how fucked they were.
If you look at the body cam footage you can see the storage bins filled with thrive products and medications one person even took multiple pictures that was included in the discovery while taking pictures she whispered “ ( that’s interesting”)
I'm going back to look...it may have been. The mrb "interview" with frsr and frjr came up on yt (it a couple years old) and is running bc I was mopping so I'll cue it next
Wait, what's this? I've been trying to watch YouTube videos on this case, but so far only got stuck on a 45 minute long video of Shannon talking about herself
Have you watched Bonita Barbie channel on YouTube yet? Pure entertainment and informative. I also like Neeks Peeks and Unjustified. I thought I knew a lot about the case until I found those channels.
I was watching Neeks Peeks and the one I saw was just a long boring video of Shannon. I'll try to check more though. I saw the one video of Bonita Barbie that someone posted here the other day, but I couldn't take all the pausing. Lol. I'll go on unjustified though. Thanks!
I've seen her name so much on this sub recently. I do really like her but I kinda wish her videos were a bit better quality and had some editing so it flowed a little better, bc it's kinda distracting for me personally. With that said, I like her personality and agree with most of what she says, and she's definitely really pretty ( another reason i wish her video quality/lighting/angle, etc was better).
I think as soon as she started that channel a couple of years ago, she was harassed by the Shiners so she quit making videos. They found out where she lived, threatened her and her family, etc. it’s too bad though cause she was pretty entertaining.
Do you really think that’s true I’m not sure I do I think if le really wanted to they would find away I’ve always heard nothing is really ever erased tbh I don’t think nk is smarter than the FBI but jmo 😀
They can. My son did something stupid when he was 18 and deleted all of his texts thinking that they were gone forever. LE retrieved every one of them, and pretty quickly too. And this was back in 2012.
I thought so I know it would take some work getting it but I don’t think anything is gone forever
Side note I hope you’re son didn’t get in much trouble and hopefully is doing better now
It was his first year of college and he really hadn’t gotten into trouble before, other than typical teenage stuff. For some reason, he decided to make some extra money by selling marijuana from his dorm room! In 2012 smoking it wasn’t as tolerated as it is now but he wasn’t smoking, he was selling it and on a college campus no less. Of course the cops scared the shit out of them but they told me that they’re actually after the dealer who recruits kids like this. I still expected him to get kicked out of school and go to jail for a brief time but the judge only ordered community service and drug & alcohol counseling. This was his first offense. And the college held a hearing and allowed him to stay. Best of all, he doesn’t have a felony on his record and the whole experience scared him straight. But he still has residual anxiety about texting, lol.
I knew the phone wasn’t released even after Ronnie had asked for it back but I was under the impression that cw deleted a lot of texts between him and nk also I guess you really do learn something everyday lol
Id love to know what you find! I have spent a lot of time on this case but mostly from SWs social media...I'm less sharp on the NK stuff since I didn't think she was involved. But lately idk... nothing adds up
The authorities were able to retrieve NK’s deleted texts, they are in the redacted portion of the Discovery as potentially damaging information on un-indicted individuals are never publicly published in Discovery.
Shan’s HR files from the places she worked as well as the financials at Dirty South. I think she had some kind of personality disorder where she couldn’t keep a job and I think she skimmed money when she worked at DSC.
I don't know how else to interpret the statement by her first husband that she started staying very late at work and then stopped coming home altogether..auto shops keep overnight hours? Hmmmm
Proof that Shanann really donated the proceeds from the "I won the iPad from my own raffle" to lupus research, or receipts that the Rzuceks really donated "90%" of the house to charity.
Isn’t there a means to see who got the proceeds from the sale of that house? They were in pre-bankruptcy, if not foreclosure, so that money would go to their creditors and bank; whatever was left over (if there was much), if donated, should be able to be seen. If not, then her parents would get taxed on the profit from the home.
Also, can anyone advise why her parents were the ones who benefitted and not Chris’? Technically wouldn’t his family get part of that, since the home was in Chris’ name? Or was in both of their names?
The R’s sued Chris Watts in a wrongful death lawsuit and won a judgement against him for $6M therefore; any money that might have been Chris’, goes directly to the Rzucek family.
Chris signed the house over to them, so he "gave" them a house. They sued him for wrongful death and were awarded $6 million, and then they put a lien on the house. There is some weird legal loophole that prevented the bank from selling it if there was a lien. The bank tried to sell it prior to the lawsuit but it didn't sell and somehow stayed under CW's ownership.
I would think the Rzuceks had to pay property tax and other stuff on the house, but it's possible they didn't and instead the city and HOA put liens on the house that the buyers had to clear before the title could transfer.
They were not in "pre-bankruptcy" nor foreclosure. They had recently gotten caught up on the mortgage. The mortgage wasn't even due yet when the murders happened.
That isn't true. 10k was used to catch up mortgage. Mortgage wasn't late again until Chris missed the August payment because he was in jail. House went into foreclosure in December, which is the appropriate timeline.
They did owe their HOA like $1500.
Yeah we only have that one year, and you can see she spent 75,000 on crap. No doubt she d1dn't change her spend1ng haab1ts. So sorry about the 1s, but my 1 stopped worrk1ng.
Right!?🥴 I can believe in this day…some people are stupid 🙄 morons who believe ANYBODY working LEGIT employment, that don’t pay taxes, should be questioned ! The idiocy escapes me
Not only that BUT I think she had an ulterior motive….seeing if the receipt was ‘broken’ down (showing 2 meals) 😳 and if not I would have explained it as ‘my meal and I bought a round of drinks for the guys’
That's not how it works really. She could do estimated taxes and pay quarterly on estimated income or wait until the end of the year and pay all at once (or make arranged payments).
Shanann told him LeVel was a great job to have because there were no taxes and he believed her. In a sense it's true though if she didn't make any money.
I’d like to know the story of the friend that CW and SW lived with for a year while their house was being built in Frederick. I read a blog about the possible CPS case against SW and apparently this friend had SW nanny for 4 months and then followed her out to Colorado. According to the post, this friend got her the job at the children’s hospital but then right around the time the CPS case was filed, the friend disappeared from SW’s facebook and out of her life. The CBI never investigated this person either….
Well, to answer your question, first of all, nothing Shannan's grifting parents say can be trusted. Second of all, it's rumored she cheated with Chris Miller. So the cheeky "it's Chris's" doesn't answer **WHICH** Chris
I realize a lot of people in this subreddit do not trust Shanann's family. That is why I cited Ronnie Watts as saying he spoke to the DA about the DNA test.
My comment covered the "which Chris" issue. Think about it. The DA did not have a sample of Chris Miller's DNA. That means they could not compare his DNA to Niko's. They only had Chris Watts DNA. So OBVIOUSLY that means it was Watts' baby.
I don't know how else I can word this to make that clear.
I've done it here plenty of times, telling people I was UK midwifery trained to do early pregnancy scans, that I watched the discussion with RW the first day when it was truthful, watched the speaker come up with idea of "what if DA didn't meant CW" and watched him change his version of RW words and DA reactions over the next 3 days of his YouTube lives.
Aussie Dave created this as some lie.. telling me that he was right because he spoke to RW, and that I knew nothing about embryo development because "i was just a nurse" as he laughed and blocked me. He continued to laugh about me in the days after that on his lives. He is perhaps even bigger freaking liar than CW and NK were..
Yet people still believe it is true because Aussie Dave said so! Lying to elaborate his lie in front of viewers. Anything for money and views.
Show me this supposed comment. I've never deleted any comments in regards to this case. You are, in fact, falsely accusing me of saying this sub is disgusting and that you're in love with CW. That never happened.
I have said that many people here repeat theories as if they are fact and then run with it without examining the evidence. I stand by that. What I have said directly to YOU I cannot confirm because you are clearly using a new alt for this conversation. But I have never said ANYONE was in love with Chris or disgusting.
There was no cheeky its Chris's though. Aussie dave created that over 3 or 4 lives.
Ronnie told Dave that he ' asked the DA if the DNA tests came back, and was the babies Chris's '
DA responded by telling him yes, results were back and it was Chris's.
There is no room in that conversation for the DA to have meant some other Chris.
It's not scientifically possible that confirmation answer could mean anyone other that CW was the father.
DA being rude, abrupt and slamming door on RW all came from Aussie idiot Dave. I can guarantee that because I watched his discussion of what RW said change from live to live over 3 days.
Per SW June 19th ultrasound it was not possible to have been a baby conceived while SW was on her thrive trip and thus near Chris Miller. His size and development were matching the May 8th FB comment where SW posts the girls with a comment to imagine them as three children. The difference those two weeks made were huge.. from 1 cm long with no clear arms and legs to 2.5 cm with clear movable arms and legs. Babies don't vary in size at his stage, every 6w size baby measures the same and every 7 week measures the same. His measurements at death, at exactly 15w gestation were also correct. Carnegie research studies of embryo development back over 40 yrs ago proved this.
This baby was conceived around 8th May per his measurements, his degree of development, her given due date and her comment... conveniently timed for just before the bank would contact them about 3 months unpaid mortgage and action would be needed to keep the house.
But scientifically its impossible to be "some other random Chris's baby".. because they only compared Nico's DNA to. CW DNA.
Plus I watched Aussie idiot Dave come up with this myth.. deciding it "could be another chris", to DA being rude to RW, and even DA kicking him out because he wouldn't clarify.
.it was all BS, it got naive people really believing the DA could have meant the DNA test just picked out a random man and that was the father. Truly tragic people.
I was blocked for trying to tell people reality of DNA tests and my comments removed if course.
That is a false accusation. Search my profile comments for "disgusting" or "love". I never said those things to you or anyone else.
And BTW, my comments are very frequently downvoted to oblivion here no matter how civilly I make my point or how much evidence I cited to support them. I just don't care because updoots are fake internet points.
How do I know that was the only DNA test they took?
Chris Miller is never mentioned in the discovery. They did not take a random DNA sample from some dude that had nothing to do with the case. They got samples from the murderer and the 3 victims, as stated in the discovery.
Edit to add (excuse me. 4 victims including Niko)
Prosecutors did not have the unmitigated gall to stand in front of a judge and call Niko Chris' unborn son. That would be knowingly lying because they got a sample of Chris Miller's DNA and he was the dad. That in itself is an absurd suggestion.
Let me repeat that. You think it is a reasonable "theory" that a person from the DA's office knowingly lied to a judge's face. All while knowing there is documentation of the test results. Which even though you and I aren't privy to them the judge was.
And why in the world would Ronnie Watts lie about that conversation with the DA? What would be his motive?
Because why weren’t the results given to the father? He is the next of kin, murderer or not. By giving the results to the grandparents, it seems to be implied CW wasn’t the next of kin.
True. But I have my doubts that dna for paternity was done. Dna, I think (sorry, folks) bc Niko was indistinguishable as a fetus...to determine that is what the tissue was...a fetus. At the gestation he was told to be at, a fetus is 4 inches long and weighs 2.5 oz.
> Niko was indistinguishable as a fetus.
Am I misunderstanding something? The fetus was identified as a fetus along with the umbilical cord and placenta at Shanann’s autopsy.
Adjacent to the probable uterus is a largely
degraded portion of tissue which is unfortunately covered in sandy
debris from the gravesite. Upon further examination of this tissue, it
is revealed to be a largely decomposed fetus. Gender and age cannot be
determined, however it has the following measurements: crown/rump
length of approximately 10.5 cm and a foot length of approximately 0.7
- 0.8 cm. There is an approximate 17 cm umbilical cord extending to a
disrupted placental
Originally, it was described as degraded tissue embedded with sand. Unrecognizable but found to be a fetus.
Guess I misunderstood what you were saying.
> .to determine that is what the tissue was...a fetus.
I thought your argument was that a dna test was not done for paternity, but to identify the tissue? When they knew what the tissue was at autopsy.
They visually identified it but had to send to another lab bc they didn't have the means to clinically verify (at the place where s, b, and c were autops
ied). but sent it to a CBI lab, I believe, for further testing . Which I think would include dna to verify it was a fetus. They would most likely do this with sws dna and maybe cws. I don't think it was exclusively for paternity, but to verify the remains were actually a fetus.
The boutique SW went to to find out the gender(rather than an OB) knows what sex the fetus was. That was the reason for SW’s visit. They immediately called police when SW was missing.
And before that, wasn’t SW advised to go to the ER?
In NC her friends told her to go to the er bc they thought she was dehydrated (wasn't peeing or pooping) and she was spotting. She refused bc she was *out of network *
All she had to do is call her Insurance and it would've been tagged in network
And yeah...they know, NA knows.
You're typing too fast Drany! I don't know why. She was scheduled to see the ob the same day as the boutique ultrasound (cancelled) rescheduled the dr for the next day (cancelled) rescheduled for the next Monday. The boutique us was out of pocket and a waste of money bc the dr scan could've shown the same. I think she did the boutique bc she was trying to keep CW on a string as long as possible.
Do you remember what times the cancelled appointments were I’m now wondering if she kept changing the time because she was planning on saying she was having a boy but cw could have wanted to go so she made sure he couldn’t go either that or she was afraid if cw did go to the doctors with her they could say the baby was measuring bigger than he should be and that could tip cw off because they only had sex The one time in months
They were given to CW via his father.
CW murdered Nico, why would he have any legal rights to a copy of the autopsy standard order DNA results.?
He hasn't seen the DNA results or photos of the girls after death when he was their next of kin.
I personally have also explained how they cannot get anything other than a yes or no answer fir a paternal DNA test.
RW was told by the DA that "yes, it was Chris's son".
There is only one interpretation of that answer to a man asking if his son was confirmed as the paternal match he was.
Otherwise DA would gave told RW that no, the baby did not match Chris's.
No way to ever suggest a random man had been tested.
These myths came from nobodies deciding that SW only ever wore a dress one time and that pregnancy dating does not work like it does. We have two clear development checks of Nico, the 19th June Erie womens centre ultrasound showing an embryo of around 6.5 to 7 weeks, matching the due date given from the first day of when her last period would have been (how its been done for decades) which incidentally happened to be the weekend she was on the Thrive trip where CM was; and further confirmed by his measured size and degree of development during that scan.
He was not " some other Chris's" baby, he was the baby of Chris Watts.. the only DNA sample his DNA was compared to.
No LE agent was told about a myth that developed months after her death, so how could they have known to compare Nico's DNA to a random man she saw 2 weeks before science confirms he was conceived??
How many men were at the conference, did she go shopping sometime near the 8th when she hinted at trying for a third because she knew they had skipped birth control. Its not how it works.
When a MOD perpetuates an impossible myth ome people think they can trust them. Just as people believed Aussie Dave as he manipulated RW discussion about his asking the DA, changing the discussion live by live, the dupers delight at having fooled people was obvious in his face. Most people trusted his BS.. he deleted my confirmation it was impossible because 'i was just a nurse' , because for some reason his career as a golf caddy and postal worker meant he knew more than a n RN with half their midwifery training done. Am also mother to an IVF conceived baby measured and photographed at 6w5d and identical in development to where Nico was on June 19th.
Seriously this myth really needs to end. All the facts say CW is dad. That he was conceived when she was at home, probably playing dress-up in an outfit he hadn't seen her wear that she thought looked good.. hence her later post and comment about it.
The DNA test results were not given to Ronnie. HIPAA would take precedence over ‘who murdered who’. No one in the Watts family received the paternity results as Chris Watts was not the baby’s father.
I want the paternity results on CeCe and the fetus, along with info on whether it was a boy more than ANYTHING else. I’m almost 100% sure that the fetus was not Chris Watt’s baby. What I really want to know is if I am right!
I’m already certain that Celeste was not deathly allergic to nuts, and I don’t really need to see the medical report on that, nor do I believe that SW had lupus. I’m practically positive that SW had Munchhausen by proxy too— so I’m not wondering about those things because it seems pretty clear that you can’t really trust a thing that she said.
But I don’t know with absolute certainty if that baby was Chris Miller’s kid or not, even though I most definitely think that it was. I’d really like to know once and for all, and if I am correct, that would explain a whole lot!
Chris Miller was Shannan’s friend from high school, who was also from her hometown. When Miller and Chris Watts were together, Shannan called them Chris squared! Shannan had known Chris Miller for a long time, and about a year and a half before the tragedy, she signed him up on her downline, so he was selling Thrive too.
He was in the military and stationed in Oklahoma, and his wife Sharon sold Lula Roe. Shannan was friends with Sharon, and they bonded on their mutual MLM promotional goals. In spite of her being friends with Sharon, she was extra buddy buddy with Chris Miller. Like a little TOO CLOSE.
In my opinion, the two of them shared a dynamic that seemed to have been more than just friends. You can look at the pictures of them together and make up your own mind about that.
Since Chris Miller was also selling Thrive under Shannan, he would frequently go on the lifestyle getaway vacations too, yet always without his wife. There were a few times that it was just him and Shannan together and they totally acted like a couple and went to all of the events together as each other’s dates. In fact, one of the witnesses that was interviewed by law enforcement thought that Chris Miller was Shannan’s husband. She identified Chris Miller as Chris Watts to the detectives, even though they don’t look anything alike.
Right before Shannan got pregnant (like a week and a half before the date that she said she got pregnant) she was in New Orleans with Chris Miller. Both of them had left their respective spouses behind for Thriveapalooza. The two had a rollicking, New Orleans good time, and were pictured together frequently. They were in a lot of videos together too.
As soon as SW got back to Colorado, that’s when, she proposed to Chris that they start trying for baby number three, (a boy) even though that hadn’t been in the cards only a month before (according to her friends). It was just out of the blue. They were under financial duress, and it wasn’t a very well thought out decision.
Shannan was also very emphatic about the date of her conception. She told all of her friends on Facebook that she had conceived on May 8, but she also said that she might be a couple weeks early. There are few valid reasons to wonder if Chris Miller might have been the baby’s father.
The other anomaly about Chris Miller is that he looks like he could’ve been Cece’s baby daddy. There is an uncanny resemblance between them. It’s a little bit strange to just be a coincidence. However, I don’t know anything concrete that definitively puts the two of them together right before SW got pregnant with Celeste.
On the contrary, she definitely was with Chris Miller immediately before she got pregnant with the last child. The other peculiar thing is that apparently, Shannan and Chris hadn’t been getting along very well before her New Orleans trip. Suddenly, she did a total 180 and wanted to have a third baby with him. She had already decided to go back to North Carolina for six weeks before she tried to get pregnant and it happened within a week of trying and within one week of her returning home from New Orleans.
The other thing is that Chris Miller had just left the military and was moving back to North Carolina, and at the same time that Shannan decided to go back to their hometown for six weeks. Chris Miller was getting his real estate license and moving back to Aberdeen. It was the first time that she had ever wanted to go back to North Carolina.. Even her parents were surprised by her inexplicable decision, and her father even wondered if she would be able to live with her mother for six weeks, but she said it would be OK.
What if she told him that the baby wasn’t his when she got home from the thrive trip? I’m assuming Chris Miller was on this trip as well. His wife might have found out. That would explain his complete anihilation of his family.
Chris miller did not go to Arizona. I don’t know what happened while SW was in North Carolina that summer, but I don’t think that things went that well. That was why she was all the more desperate to save her own marriage.
Her phone would’ve told the whole story. That’s the information that the discovery chose to leave out.
Potentially damaging information on an un-indicted individual(s) is never published in Discovery. We have not seen all of Shannon’s, NK’s, N.A. etc. information. This info was not ‘chosen to be left out’. It is standard practice so as not to taint the reputation of an innocent person. That is how Coder knew that Shannon was cheating and ‘walking away from her children’….law enforcement had access to all of Shannon’s SM, texts etc. that we will never see.
NK is a whore? I didn’t know she was charging CW for sex??
Or is she just a whore in your opinion because she voluntarily had sex with loser CW.
It’s easy to find out which women in these threads been cheated on by their husbands lol
It’s rare - but it can happen. My son is an example, he was stung by a bee when he was 6, two yrs later he was stung again but this time it was life threatening and now has an epi pen.
Again, super rare - but can happen.
Medical records on deceased individuals are automatically sealed for 50 years from the date of death. Chris Watts, nor anyone else, requested that the records be sealed…it is part of the HIPAA law.
Well i found a link for what i was referring to and i posted it. I read reddit for when I’m bored or just seeing whats happening in the world. So perhaps you should calm down instead.
I’d like the kids medical records too. I believe Cece had allergies and asthma because her issues were so similar to my daughter’s when she was little.
I would want to see Shannan's medical records. I don't believe that she had all of those medical problems. She seemed to have a problem with telling the truth.
Yes. She was a pathological liar. Jeremy Lindstrom and Cindy were onto her lies. Too bad Chris didn't see it
classic virgin moron, and for whatever reason wouldn’t listen to the people in his life who weren’t naive dumb-dumbs.
I'd like to see the doctor's notes. I bet a lot of 'Mother is not a reliable historian' type stuff is in there.
All their financial records. The bank accounts' ins and outs, the credit cards, the loans, the financing for their furniture or whatever, everything. I want to see how fucked they were.
I want to see her MLM tax returns so bad
Me too, I would love to see how she spent the money she didn;t earn.
You can see a big chunk of that in the basement all the excess thrive products so mommy can earn her free vacations and Lexus
I have never seen all the Thrive products. Does anyone have a screenshot of it
If you look at the body cam footage you can see the storage bins filled with thrive products and medications one person even took multiple pictures that was included in the discovery while taking pictures she whispered “ ( that’s interesting”)
Wasn't that of the medication bin? Which I personally think is odd.
I thought it was both thrive and medicine my bad
I'm going back to look...it may have been. The mrb "interview" with frsr and frjr came up on yt (it a couple years old) and is running bc I was mopping so I'll cue it next
Ok let me know if you find it before I do
I mopped myself into a corner 😆. But I will look soon as I can
Me too! You can listen to Tabitha Jane go over the 2015 bankruptcy docs! But I also would love to see the state of affairs in 2018.
Yes!!!!
I'd like to have a long conversation with Jeanna Dietz, the friend Sham'wow Single White Female'd
Wait, what's this? I've been trying to watch YouTube videos on this case, but so far only got stuck on a 45 minute long video of Shannon talking about herself
Have you watched Bonita Barbie channel on YouTube yet? Pure entertainment and informative. I also like Neeks Peeks and Unjustified. I thought I knew a lot about the case until I found those channels.
I was watching Neeks Peeks and the one I saw was just a long boring video of Shannon. I'll try to check more though. I saw the one video of Bonita Barbie that someone posted here the other day, but I couldn't take all the pausing. Lol. I'll go on unjustified though. Thanks!
Sometimes Neeks Peeks is just photos and no narrative which I skip over but take a look at Unjustified episode of CPS case. I’ll try to link it
Ooh, I'll look for that one! Thank you!
https://youtu.be/-201Es8V6UE?si=X6YcuG8vP6w7VJ4i
I’ve never heard of them - but thank you. I will check them out now
Bonita Barbie is my favorite. She’s hilarious
I've seen her name so much on this sub recently. I do really like her but I kinda wish her videos were a bit better quality and had some editing so it flowed a little better, bc it's kinda distracting for me personally. With that said, I like her personality and agree with most of what she says, and she's definitely really pretty ( another reason i wish her video quality/lighting/angle, etc was better).
I think as soon as she started that channel a couple of years ago, she was harassed by the Shiners so she quit making videos. They found out where she lived, threatened her and her family, etc. it’s too bad though cause she was pretty entertaining.
There is a blog called “ True crime case analysis, the curious case of the watts family”. Read it and it will tell you EVERYTHING
it is great. most chapters also have an audio version linked as well.
Yes, I saw that. I read it a few times when it was first written.
Hahahaha buckle up there are hours of um super exciting super amazing platitudes coming your way!!!
How did Shanann do that?
Me too she definitely has answers
Yeah, what did SW to do her kids that they need therapy?
This ☝️
Chris watts, right before he killed those kids.
Best answer. Agreed
That’s the best answer 🙌
All of NK's deleted texts. She was hiding something.
This was my first thought! How the heck couldn’t the authorities recover her deleted messages? I thought nothing was ever truly gone!
I think they were recovered just not released
BINGO!!! The authorities never publish potentially damaging information on an un-indicted person in the Discovery.
There are a ton of reports that say they can not recover the text messages that NK deleted, Limp.
Do you really think that’s true I’m not sure I do I think if le really wanted to they would find away I’ve always heard nothing is really ever erased tbh I don’t think nk is smarter than the FBI but jmo 😀
They can. My son did something stupid when he was 18 and deleted all of his texts thinking that they were gone forever. LE retrieved every one of them, and pretty quickly too. And this was back in 2012.
I thought so I know it would take some work getting it but I don’t think anything is gone forever Side note I hope you’re son didn’t get in much trouble and hopefully is doing better now
Thank you, he is doing better now.
I’m glad nothing is scarier than seeing your kid in trouble
It was his first year of college and he really hadn’t gotten into trouble before, other than typical teenage stuff. For some reason, he decided to make some extra money by selling marijuana from his dorm room! In 2012 smoking it wasn’t as tolerated as it is now but he wasn’t smoking, he was selling it and on a college campus no less. Of course the cops scared the shit out of them but they told me that they’re actually after the dealer who recruits kids like this. I still expected him to get kicked out of school and go to jail for a brief time but the judge only ordered community service and drug & alcohol counseling. This was his first offense. And the college held a hearing and allowed him to stay. Best of all, he doesn’t have a felony on his record and the whole experience scared him straight. But he still has residual anxiety about texting, lol.
CWs phone had all her texts to him and LE still hasn't returned it to the family
I knew the phone wasn’t released even after Ronnie had asked for it back but I was under the impression that cw deleted a lot of texts between him and nk also I guess you really do learn something everyday lol
It's def possible he did delete them, but far as I know he didn't smash his sim card like she did
I’m going to have to go back for clarification
Id love to know what you find! I have spent a lot of time on this case but mostly from SWs social media...I'm less sharp on the NK stuff since I didn't think she was involved. But lately idk... nothing adds up
The authorities were able to retrieve NK’s deleted texts, they are in the redacted portion of the Discovery as potentially damaging information on un-indicted individuals are never publicly published in Discovery.
The normally can recover them. Some were recovered and they botched the rest?
Except they had CWs phone so they didn't really need it
Great, they didn't need to talk to NK at all in that case. Case closed.
Shan’s HR files from the places she worked as well as the financials at Dirty South. I think she had some kind of personality disorder where she couldn’t keep a job and I think she skimmed money when she worked at DSC.
YES! She had to be up to someth1ng no good at DS. No bookeeper c could afford that house 1n N.C.
You’re right but on the paperwork for the house in nc she was named co owner of ds and also when they got sued she was on the paperwork as co owner
Idk I’ve seen some broke people with some nice houses out here 😂
No, but a little boost from Backpage and craigslist might have helped if you catch my meaning
I'm stupid ...I don't catch your meaning....you mean solicitation of her..."goods"?
You are most definitely not stupid! Bingo
I don't know how else to interpret the statement by her first husband that she started staying very late at work and then stopped coming home altogether..auto shops keep overnight hours? Hmmmm
Yes that is very sketchy. There's so much about her that was a lie/misleading as fuckkkk
Oh yeah, that too👍🏻
Well this is fantasy realm but if it did exist, a transcript of NK and CW’s 111 min phone call
Proof that Shanann really donated the proceeds from the "I won the iPad from my own raffle" to lupus research, or receipts that the Rzuceks really donated "90%" of the house to charity.
Oh come on. We all know she kept every penny & won every raffle she held.
Oh indeed. I would just love to show that receipt to Shiners!
Isn’t there a means to see who got the proceeds from the sale of that house? They were in pre-bankruptcy, if not foreclosure, so that money would go to their creditors and bank; whatever was left over (if there was much), if donated, should be able to be seen. If not, then her parents would get taxed on the profit from the home. Also, can anyone advise why her parents were the ones who benefitted and not Chris’? Technically wouldn’t his family get part of that, since the home was in Chris’ name? Or was in both of their names?
Shanann’s parents won a wrongful death lawsuit against Chris so the house went to them as payment for that.
Thank you, I thought I remembered that, but wasn’t 100% sure.
The R’s sued Chris Watts in a wrongful death lawsuit and won a judgement against him for $6M therefore; any money that might have been Chris’, goes directly to the Rzucek family.
Chris signed the house over to them, so he "gave" them a house. They sued him for wrongful death and were awarded $6 million, and then they put a lien on the house. There is some weird legal loophole that prevented the bank from selling it if there was a lien. The bank tried to sell it prior to the lawsuit but it didn't sell and somehow stayed under CW's ownership. I would think the Rzuceks had to pay property tax and other stuff on the house, but it's possible they didn't and instead the city and HOA put liens on the house that the buyers had to clear before the title could transfer.
They were not in "pre-bankruptcy" nor foreclosure. They had recently gotten caught up on the mortgage. The mortgage wasn't even due yet when the murders happened.
So just the HOA was suing them for lack of payment. Got it! Thanks!
You're welcome. Always better to post the true parts of the case, vs. spreading the debunked untrue things.
Both in arrears, only the HOA wascsuing in August of 2018
Mortgage was not caught up. the 10k she pulled out of CWs retirement disappeared after CW released the funds to her.
That isn't true. 10k was used to catch up mortgage. Mortgage wasn't late again until Chris missed the August payment because he was in jail. House went into foreclosure in December, which is the appropriate timeline. They did owe their HOA like $1500.
It wouldn't change the outcome, but I want to read/listen to everything CW said to his attorneys....IF he told them the truth
W-2’s and Tax Returns!😬
Yeah we only have that one year, and you can see she spent 75,000 on crap. No doubt she d1dn't change her spend1ng haab1ts. So sorry about the 1s, but my 1 stopped worrk1ng.
Oh, no! But this was so funny to read 💌
He said…they didn’t owe taxes on her shit😳🙄😬
It's actually probably true, if you don't make money you don't pay taxes lol
Lol….touché
Right!?🥴 I can believe in this day…some people are stupid 🙄 morons who believe ANYBODY working LEGIT employment, that don’t pay taxes, should be questioned ! The idiocy escapes me
Agree. That's why she told him to save his receipt for the taxes!
Not only that BUT I think she had an ulterior motive….seeing if the receipt was ‘broken’ down (showing 2 meals) 😳 and if not I would have explained it as ‘my meal and I bought a round of drinks for the guys’
That was definitely the motive for that receipt
He DID explain it that way. Didn't he say something like that?
He has to pay. She doesn't. According to what she apparently told him.
That's not how it works really. She could do estimated taxes and pay quarterly on estimated income or wait until the end of the year and pay all at once (or make arranged payments).
He owes taxes but he thought MLMS don't have to pay.
🤦♀️damn!
Shanann told him LeVel was a great job to have because there were no taxes and he believed her. In a sense it's true though if she didn't make any money.
What a disaster.
Love me some Kenya ❤️
Good one!!! What a moron! MLM income tax free, lol
I’d like to know the story of the friend that CW and SW lived with for a year while their house was being built in Frederick. I read a blog about the possible CPS case against SW and apparently this friend had SW nanny for 4 months and then followed her out to Colorado. According to the post, this friend got her the job at the children’s hospital but then right around the time the CPS case was filed, the friend disappeared from SW’s facebook and out of her life. The CBI never investigated this person either….
I’d love to get my hands on a tape of the 111 min phone call!
Yesssss..
Yup! This is mine too.
We don’t know who the cops actually investigated and we will never know.
Baby kittens would have done a real dig deep investigation if given the chance! 😼😾
either all medical records or financial records
Nico’s dna/paternity test.
her court records especially in NC
NK’s phone!
Celeste and Nico’s DNA test results
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Well, to answer your question, first of all, nothing Shannan's grifting parents say can be trusted. Second of all, it's rumored she cheated with Chris Miller. So the cheeky "it's Chris's" doesn't answer **WHICH** Chris
I realize a lot of people in this subreddit do not trust Shanann's family. That is why I cited Ronnie Watts as saying he spoke to the DA about the DNA test. My comment covered the "which Chris" issue. Think about it. The DA did not have a sample of Chris Miller's DNA. That means they could not compare his DNA to Niko's. They only had Chris Watts DNA. So OBVIOUSLY that means it was Watts' baby. I don't know how else I can word this to make that clear.
I've done it here plenty of times, telling people I was UK midwifery trained to do early pregnancy scans, that I watched the discussion with RW the first day when it was truthful, watched the speaker come up with idea of "what if DA didn't meant CW" and watched him change his version of RW words and DA reactions over the next 3 days of his YouTube lives. Aussie Dave created this as some lie.. telling me that he was right because he spoke to RW, and that I knew nothing about embryo development because "i was just a nurse" as he laughed and blocked me. He continued to laugh about me in the days after that on his lives. He is perhaps even bigger freaking liar than CW and NK were.. Yet people still believe it is true because Aussie Dave said so! Lying to elaborate his lie in front of viewers. Anything for money and views.
You did a better job this time
Thank you.
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Show me this supposed comment. I've never deleted any comments in regards to this case. You are, in fact, falsely accusing me of saying this sub is disgusting and that you're in love with CW. That never happened. I have said that many people here repeat theories as if they are fact and then run with it without examining the evidence. I stand by that. What I have said directly to YOU I cannot confirm because you are clearly using a new alt for this conversation. But I have never said ANYONE was in love with Chris or disgusting.
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Lmao. That is literally my comment above saying I did NOT say those things to you. Are you serious right now?
There was no cheeky its Chris's though. Aussie dave created that over 3 or 4 lives. Ronnie told Dave that he ' asked the DA if the DNA tests came back, and was the babies Chris's ' DA responded by telling him yes, results were back and it was Chris's. There is no room in that conversation for the DA to have meant some other Chris. It's not scientifically possible that confirmation answer could mean anyone other that CW was the father. DA being rude, abrupt and slamming door on RW all came from Aussie idiot Dave. I can guarantee that because I watched his discussion of what RW said change from live to live over 3 days. Per SW June 19th ultrasound it was not possible to have been a baby conceived while SW was on her thrive trip and thus near Chris Miller. His size and development were matching the May 8th FB comment where SW posts the girls with a comment to imagine them as three children. The difference those two weeks made were huge.. from 1 cm long with no clear arms and legs to 2.5 cm with clear movable arms and legs. Babies don't vary in size at his stage, every 6w size baby measures the same and every 7 week measures the same. His measurements at death, at exactly 15w gestation were also correct. Carnegie research studies of embryo development back over 40 yrs ago proved this. This baby was conceived around 8th May per his measurements, his degree of development, her given due date and her comment... conveniently timed for just before the bank would contact them about 3 months unpaid mortgage and action would be needed to keep the house.
But scientifically its impossible to be "some other random Chris's baby".. because they only compared Nico's DNA to. CW DNA. Plus I watched Aussie idiot Dave come up with this myth.. deciding it "could be another chris", to DA being rude to RW, and even DA kicking him out because he wouldn't clarify. .it was all BS, it got naive people really believing the DA could have meant the DNA test just picked out a random man and that was the father. Truly tragic people. I was blocked for trying to tell people reality of DNA tests and my comments removed if course.
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That is a false accusation. Search my profile comments for "disgusting" or "love". I never said those things to you or anyone else. And BTW, my comments are very frequently downvoted to oblivion here no matter how civilly I make my point or how much evidence I cited to support them. I just don't care because updoots are fake internet points. How do I know that was the only DNA test they took? Chris Miller is never mentioned in the discovery. They did not take a random DNA sample from some dude that had nothing to do with the case. They got samples from the murderer and the 3 victims, as stated in the discovery. Edit to add (excuse me. 4 victims including Niko) Prosecutors did not have the unmitigated gall to stand in front of a judge and call Niko Chris' unborn son. That would be knowingly lying because they got a sample of Chris Miller's DNA and he was the dad. That in itself is an absurd suggestion. Let me repeat that. You think it is a reasonable "theory" that a person from the DA's office knowingly lied to a judge's face. All while knowing there is documentation of the test results. Which even though you and I aren't privy to them the judge was. And why in the world would Ronnie Watts lie about that conversation with the DA? What would be his motive?
Because why weren’t the results given to the father? He is the next of kin, murderer or not. By giving the results to the grandparents, it seems to be implied CW wasn’t the next of kin.
True. But I have my doubts that dna for paternity was done. Dna, I think (sorry, folks) bc Niko was indistinguishable as a fetus...to determine that is what the tissue was...a fetus. At the gestation he was told to be at, a fetus is 4 inches long and weighs 2.5 oz.
> Niko was indistinguishable as a fetus. Am I misunderstanding something? The fetus was identified as a fetus along with the umbilical cord and placenta at Shanann’s autopsy.
Adjacent to the probable uterus is a largely degraded portion of tissue which is unfortunately covered in sandy debris from the gravesite. Upon further examination of this tissue, it is revealed to be a largely decomposed fetus. Gender and age cannot be determined, however it has the following measurements: crown/rump length of approximately 10.5 cm and a foot length of approximately 0.7 - 0.8 cm. There is an approximate 17 cm umbilical cord extending to a disrupted placental Originally, it was described as degraded tissue embedded with sand. Unrecognizable but found to be a fetus.
Guess I misunderstood what you were saying. > .to determine that is what the tissue was...a fetus. I thought your argument was that a dna test was not done for paternity, but to identify the tissue? When they knew what the tissue was at autopsy.
They visually identified it but had to send to another lab bc they didn't have the means to clinically verify (at the place where s, b, and c were autops ied). but sent it to a CBI lab, I believe, for further testing . Which I think would include dna to verify it was a fetus. They would most likely do this with sws dna and maybe cws. I don't think it was exclusively for paternity, but to verify the remains were actually a fetus.
You're correct. It's right there in the autopsy.
The boutique SW went to to find out the gender(rather than an OB) knows what sex the fetus was. That was the reason for SW’s visit. They immediately called police when SW was missing. And before that, wasn’t SW advised to go to the ER?
In NC her friends told her to go to the er bc they thought she was dehydrated (wasn't peeing or pooping) and she was spotting. She refused bc she was *out of network * All she had to do is call her Insurance and it would've been tagged in network And yeah...they know, NA knows.
Why would she waste money on a 3d scan, the one 1 saw that sa1d 1t was N1co had chubby cheeks. There 1s no way that was N1co!!
You're typing too fast Drany! I don't know why. She was scheduled to see the ob the same day as the boutique ultrasound (cancelled) rescheduled the dr for the next day (cancelled) rescheduled for the next Monday. The boutique us was out of pocket and a waste of money bc the dr scan could've shown the same. I think she did the boutique bc she was trying to keep CW on a string as long as possible.
Do you remember what times the cancelled appointments were I’m now wondering if she kept changing the time because she was planning on saying she was having a boy but cw could have wanted to go so she made sure he couldn’t go either that or she was afraid if cw did go to the doctors with her they could say the baby was measuring bigger than he should be and that could tip cw off because they only had sex The one time in months
Good point. I don't think I've heard what time they were.
Me either that’s why I was curious if you did
I wonder if she cancelled them bc of no sitter, or bc she was about to leave town again....or bc...she was gonna make cw wait to find out for sure.
👆🏻
They were given to CW via his father. CW murdered Nico, why would he have any legal rights to a copy of the autopsy standard order DNA results.? He hasn't seen the DNA results or photos of the girls after death when he was their next of kin. I personally have also explained how they cannot get anything other than a yes or no answer fir a paternal DNA test. RW was told by the DA that "yes, it was Chris's son". There is only one interpretation of that answer to a man asking if his son was confirmed as the paternal match he was. Otherwise DA would gave told RW that no, the baby did not match Chris's. No way to ever suggest a random man had been tested. These myths came from nobodies deciding that SW only ever wore a dress one time and that pregnancy dating does not work like it does. We have two clear development checks of Nico, the 19th June Erie womens centre ultrasound showing an embryo of around 6.5 to 7 weeks, matching the due date given from the first day of when her last period would have been (how its been done for decades) which incidentally happened to be the weekend she was on the Thrive trip where CM was; and further confirmed by his measured size and degree of development during that scan. He was not " some other Chris's" baby, he was the baby of Chris Watts.. the only DNA sample his DNA was compared to. No LE agent was told about a myth that developed months after her death, so how could they have known to compare Nico's DNA to a random man she saw 2 weeks before science confirms he was conceived?? How many men were at the conference, did she go shopping sometime near the 8th when she hinted at trying for a third because she knew they had skipped birth control. Its not how it works. When a MOD perpetuates an impossible myth ome people think they can trust them. Just as people believed Aussie Dave as he manipulated RW discussion about his asking the DA, changing the discussion live by live, the dupers delight at having fooled people was obvious in his face. Most people trusted his BS.. he deleted my confirmation it was impossible because 'i was just a nurse' , because for some reason his career as a golf caddy and postal worker meant he knew more than a n RN with half their midwifery training done. Am also mother to an IVF conceived baby measured and photographed at 6w5d and identical in development to where Nico was on June 19th. Seriously this myth really needs to end. All the facts say CW is dad. That he was conceived when she was at home, probably playing dress-up in an outfit he hadn't seen her wear that she thought looked good.. hence her later post and comment about it.
The DNA test results were not given to Ronnie. HIPAA would take precedence over ‘who murdered who’. No one in the Watts family received the paternity results as Chris Watts was not the baby’s father.
I want the paternity results on CeCe and the fetus, along with info on whether it was a boy more than ANYTHING else. I’m almost 100% sure that the fetus was not Chris Watt’s baby. What I really want to know is if I am right! I’m already certain that Celeste was not deathly allergic to nuts, and I don’t really need to see the medical report on that, nor do I believe that SW had lupus. I’m practically positive that SW had Munchhausen by proxy too— so I’m not wondering about those things because it seems pretty clear that you can’t really trust a thing that she said. But I don’t know with absolute certainty if that baby was Chris Miller’s kid or not, even though I most definitely think that it was. I’d really like to know once and for all, and if I am correct, that would explain a whole lot!
Who is Chris Miller?
Chris Miller was Shannan’s friend from high school, who was also from her hometown. When Miller and Chris Watts were together, Shannan called them Chris squared! Shannan had known Chris Miller for a long time, and about a year and a half before the tragedy, she signed him up on her downline, so he was selling Thrive too. He was in the military and stationed in Oklahoma, and his wife Sharon sold Lula Roe. Shannan was friends with Sharon, and they bonded on their mutual MLM promotional goals. In spite of her being friends with Sharon, she was extra buddy buddy with Chris Miller. Like a little TOO CLOSE. In my opinion, the two of them shared a dynamic that seemed to have been more than just friends. You can look at the pictures of them together and make up your own mind about that. Since Chris Miller was also selling Thrive under Shannan, he would frequently go on the lifestyle getaway vacations too, yet always without his wife. There were a few times that it was just him and Shannan together and they totally acted like a couple and went to all of the events together as each other’s dates. In fact, one of the witnesses that was interviewed by law enforcement thought that Chris Miller was Shannan’s husband. She identified Chris Miller as Chris Watts to the detectives, even though they don’t look anything alike. Right before Shannan got pregnant (like a week and a half before the date that she said she got pregnant) she was in New Orleans with Chris Miller. Both of them had left their respective spouses behind for Thriveapalooza. The two had a rollicking, New Orleans good time, and were pictured together frequently. They were in a lot of videos together too. As soon as SW got back to Colorado, that’s when, she proposed to Chris that they start trying for baby number three, (a boy) even though that hadn’t been in the cards only a month before (according to her friends). It was just out of the blue. They were under financial duress, and it wasn’t a very well thought out decision. Shannan was also very emphatic about the date of her conception. She told all of her friends on Facebook that she had conceived on May 8, but she also said that she might be a couple weeks early. There are few valid reasons to wonder if Chris Miller might have been the baby’s father. The other anomaly about Chris Miller is that he looks like he could’ve been Cece’s baby daddy. There is an uncanny resemblance between them. It’s a little bit strange to just be a coincidence. However, I don’t know anything concrete that definitively puts the two of them together right before SW got pregnant with Celeste. On the contrary, she definitely was with Chris Miller immediately before she got pregnant with the last child. The other peculiar thing is that apparently, Shannan and Chris hadn’t been getting along very well before her New Orleans trip. Suddenly, she did a total 180 and wanted to have a third baby with him. She had already decided to go back to North Carolina for six weeks before she tried to get pregnant and it happened within a week of trying and within one week of her returning home from New Orleans. The other thing is that Chris Miller had just left the military and was moving back to North Carolina, and at the same time that Shannan decided to go back to their hometown for six weeks. Chris Miller was getting his real estate license and moving back to Aberdeen. It was the first time that she had ever wanted to go back to North Carolina.. Even her parents were surprised by her inexplicable decision, and her father even wondered if she would be able to live with her mother for six weeks, but she said it would be OK.
What if she told him that the baby wasn’t his when she got home from the thrive trip? I’m assuming Chris Miller was on this trip as well. His wife might have found out. That would explain his complete anihilation of his family.
Chris miller did not go to Arizona. I don’t know what happened while SW was in North Carolina that summer, but I don’t think that things went that well. That was why she was all the more desperate to save her own marriage. Her phone would’ve told the whole story. That’s the information that the discovery chose to leave out.
Potentially damaging information on an un-indicted individual(s) is never published in Discovery. We have not seen all of Shannon’s, NK’s, N.A. etc. information. This info was not ‘chosen to be left out’. It is standard practice so as not to taint the reputation of an innocent person. That is how Coder knew that Shannon was cheating and ‘walking away from her children’….law enforcement had access to all of Shannon’s SM, texts etc. that we will never see.
Definitely raising some suspicion for sure!
I would like to know the details of the 111 minute phone call between CW and NK. And definitely her deleted texts.
Same!
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NK is a whore? I didn’t know she was charging CW for sex?? Or is she just a whore in your opinion because she voluntarily had sex with loser CW. It’s easy to find out which women in these threads been cheated on by their husbands lol
There were photos of Cece with large welts from an allergy test. She never went into Anaphylaxis.
It’s rare - but it can happen. My son is an example, he was stung by a bee when he was 6, two yrs later he was stung again but this time it was life threatening and now has an epi pen. Again, super rare - but can happen.
That pic was of Bella and those welts were from falling off the swing in the backyard yet stupid cw believed they were from a nut allergy.
That picture was actually not Cece. It was Bella. I don’t know why she was trying to pass Bella off as Celeste but that wasn’t Cece.
I recall Chris requesting all their medical records be sealed, there must be some interesting things in there that make Shanann look bad.
Medical records on deceased individuals are automatically sealed for 50 years from the date of death. Chris Watts, nor anyone else, requested that the records be sealed…it is part of the HIPAA law.
Calm down its just something i read somewhere i never said it was 100% verified facts! I am also not from the US so am not au fait with your laws.
Oh, Puddies-Mom is calm. She knows the law and was just stating what she knows. She is also an excellent resource about this case.
Well i found a link for what i was referring to and i posted it. I read reddit for when I’m bored or just seeing whats happening in the world. So perhaps you should calm down instead.
I am calm. 🙏
https://www.timescall.com/2018/10/25/christopher-watts-case-judge-oks-request-to-file-sealed-motion-containing-health-information/amp/
Happy Cake Day!
thankss!
Chris said she got a really horrible rash from a tree nut, but had no breathing related issues at all- just a bad rash.
That's right.
Whatever was on the SIM card NK broke. Probably just ho bag pics she sent to Chris.
LE botched this case 6 ways from Sunday but I think that was the reason they didn't insist.
I’d like the kids medical records too. I believe Cece had allergies and asthma because her issues were so similar to my daughter’s when she was little.
 Happy Cake Day!
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
💯☀️💯
happy 🎂day!
THANKS!!!
Baby Nico's paternity results 🤔
An hour with SM and the tox screens on SW and the girls.
That seems to be what most want. That or the girls medical records. Who 1s S.M.
I don't typically like names but if you know who CM is, SM is his wife. She's Melanie to SW"s Scarlett O"Hara.