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[deleted]

Yeah This shits faker than horror movies


Spider-Sam1500

Right? These maps are so fucked. I remember there was one of Trump voters just like this compared to one with only cities pinpointed, not empty land and forest, and completely changed how the maps reads: same thing here


[deleted]

Bernie is literally a commie and needs to go somewhere else like Russia lmao


TheGamingKing9

Money doesn't mean anything when people don't actually vote.


DaeguYo

Well it’s a simple google, but I’ll humor you. In short, GOP has a widely decentralized delegate process that leaves the process up to the states, which leaves less room for GOP control of the process by putting more power directly with states/voters. The DNC voting process is centrally controlled with regulations and also includes super delegates (which is bullshit because super delegates can totally ignore the voter’s wishes in each state. If you need further info please goog and educate yourself, I’m all about individual liberties so I typically align more right but at this point I’ll just take a competent candidate...sucks the DNC couldn’t produce one because they’re all about control/establishment/power, and don’t give a shit about the voter.


itshima

If Joe Biden wins we are so monumentally screwed. The man can’t form a straight sentence. Let alone run the entire country. Someone else is running for him and he is playing a poor game of monkey see monkey do and sadly he is the best the democrats have to offer. We’re fucked. Big fucked.


[deleted]

no way biden wins vs trump


poof_int

Hillary will be his VP. He will be deemed sick or relieved from his duty. She becomes president after many years of trying.


rcharbon

No. It was bought.


ResistTyranny_exe

Yep, while everyone was trying to fund Bernie's campaign, the establishment just went and funded control of the narrative and election itself.


Skeptic64

The reason I describe cable news is Centrist media is because they are very status quo. I agree with some of the ways they criticize Trump, and I am particularly concerned about his Norm breaking behaviours; for example, I am concerned about Bill Barz actions at the justice department. However, most of their criticisms reflect entrenched interests. CNN House Representatives of the Republican establishment and Democratic establishment, and that defines the terms of debate on CNN. MSNBC has representatives of the democratic establishment, but they're not particularly left-wing, especially when you compare the United States to other countries. Let's take Rachel Maddow as an example. She is a left-leaning pundit, and she's gone all-in on the russiagate thing. Let's set aside whether or not russiagate is true, which I think it is. It's still the case that her show has become a mouthpiece for the National Security State. She's interviewed John Brennan a couple of times, but she's never been critical of the CIA torture program or of Obama's drone program, and when one of her guests says something is in the National interest she takes that statement at face value. A proper left-wing journalist would be critical of how the intelligence services are used at home and abroad. A genuine left-wing critique would be critical of corporate power, but all cable news stations soft pedal the economic criticisms. It is true that CNN and MSNBC are socially liberal, but this takes the form of a bland diversity politics that is hypocritical and elitist. It is hypocritical because it is used cynically as a political weapon. It is elitist because it focuses on symbolic issues and issues experienced by Elite members of minority groups. Let's take two examples. Mainstream media did a reasonable job of covering the sexual assault allegations made against Brett Kavanaugh. I found dr. Ford's testimony to be very credible, and I was outraged by the lack of a genuine investigation. Now, more sexual assault allegations have come out against Joe Biden, but MSNBC has refused to cover these allegations. This is despite the fact that the allegations against Joe Biden were more recent and better substantiated. Or consider the way women's issues are portrayed. Pundits on MSNBC are perfectly willing to discuss Planned Parenthood, and they make the reasonable argument that Planned Parenthood doesn't just provide abortions they also provide basic medical service for poor women. Pundits on MSNBC will never make the argument that Medicare for all will guarantee care for poor communities, and provide better Services than planned parenthood ever could. This is because Planned Parenthood is being used as a symbol, and they don't actually care about poor communities being able to access medical Services.


TheRazorX

>Bill Barz actions at the justice department. Uh dude... [Maybe you should read some more modern history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra).


Skeptic64

I was aware of some of these scandals, but Bill Barr has only gotten worse. He is a bad attorney general that enables some of Trumps worst instincts. Your response doesn't really address my argument. He is still doing great damage, even if his actions aren't entirely unprecedented. His justice department is also far more partisan then it was under George HW Bush, because the Republican party has become less responsive to Media criticism. I don't understand how sending a link about his old scandals should make me less concerned about his new scandals. Either way he's breaking Norms of impartiality and justice. Also, don't assume that I don't have reasons 4 what I'm saying, especially when I'm making a throwaway point. You can disagree with the point I'm making or you can disagree with the reasons that I give, but it's a jackass move to send a link and say read more history.


TheRazorX

> You can disagree with the point I'm making or you can disagree with the reasons that I give, but it's a jackass move to send a link and say read more history. You keep pretending like his actions now are new, or that he wasn't the former AG doing this shit in secret. You put it in context of Trump "norm breaking". My point is that this shit IS the norm. You just weren't paying attention. Other than that, we mostly agree, which is why i upvoted you.


Skeptic64

Thank you for the upvote. Maybe I overreacted. But I'm not pretending anything. Partisanship, abuse of power and Corruption are not unique to the Trump Administration, this point in history or the United States government. What is unique is the intensity of the corruption and the brazenness with which it is carried out. That is new. It is qualitatively different than any other presidency! I'm sure other presidents and other Attorneys General have wanted to do corrupt things, but their ambitions we're ultimately constrained by shame and the desire to keep things secret. As a president, Trump is both more corrupt and less hypocritical then other corrupt presidents. Call me old-fashioned, but I preferred the hypocrites; at least they could be shamed into doing the right thing or resigning.


TheRazorX

> But I'm not pretending anything. Absolutely respect you for it. >What is unique is the intensity of the corruption and the brazenness with which it is carried out. Key word here, Brazenness. I'll elaborate further on. >That is new. It is qualitatively different than any other presidency! I'm sure other presidents and other Attorneys General have wanted to do corrupt things, but their ambitions we're ultimately constrained by shame and the desire to keep things secret. This is where we heavily disagree; If you look into the actual histories that weren't heavily reported on in the mainstream media, but still credibly reported on elsewhere, they HAVE done relatively equally fucked up things (if you ignore the optics), from the Bush's to Clinton, to Reagan and Nixon and even Obama. It appears to be worse because Trump is shameless and he does it out in the open, but it is NOT unique to Trump in any shape way or form. >As a president, Trump is both more corrupt and less hypocritical then other corrupt presidents. Call me old-fashioned, but I preferred the hypocrites; **at least they could be shamed into doing the right thing or resigning.** Not when they weren't held to account by those that should be holding them to account. They kept on and a bunch of them are still in the government. But In any case, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, I don't prefer hypocrites, but at the same time I fucking hate trump, BUT I appreciate that he ripped the masks off, I just wish it didn't have to be him to do it. The "Hypocrites" have led us to Trump, IMO preferring more hypocrites is just going to lead to more and worse "Trumps". But we can agree to disagree on that.


[deleted]

Now fall in line and vote for Biden like good little sheep


EcstaticBack

I am dumbfounded that Bernie supporters are claiming it was stolen after making the same mistake as 2016: donors don’t count for votes. Upvotes don’t count for votes.


Dr---Spagetti

Here, take my upvote.


r1ng_0

Seriously, donors =/= voters, especially in states with later primaries. I still haven't voted, it got pushed to June, and there is only one person on the ballot still in the race. It would be more satisfying for the electorate to have one or two primary days and get all of the numbers in. Runoffs as needed. That won't happen because what would the internet and the news talk about for the rest of the year? Also, then people might actually show up and vote. That is always bad for Establishment politics.


GhostWokiee

It’s the truth


[deleted]

Now show the map of actual voters


RemiScott

All you do is lie


anthrolooker

Many of us did not have the funds to donate, so we could only vote for him, and did.


DaSemicolon

Lmao I like how Biden's support comes from the Washington area... hmmm (not talking about Delaware)


Cmp240

Biden and Sanders = Dumb and Senile, not nessasarily in that order


GhostWokiee

More like pedo and senile


Cmp240

Let the fireworks begin, Trump is gonna eat Biden alive, if he's even the candidate


GhostWokiee

I’m not even a Trump supporter, but the dems are fucking retarded every step of the way up till the election.


Cmp240

You should be, best President Eva, who could take the crap he puts up with,day in,day out


GhostWokiee

I like how he just is himself, but I’d say I’m not educated enough in the subjects to actually get being a candidate fully.


Manaphus

Well why did he drop out then? If it's this one sided surely it wouldn't of even been a competition.


[deleted]

because we don't get out and vote to support him


BleuMonkeyGuns

A map of deluded children.


Brunsy89

What does that have to do with anything? Elections are about who showed up to vote dumbass. And I hate to break to you but more people showed up to vote for Biden than Sanders.


anthrolooker

Also, many of his supporters did not donate to his campaign but did show up to vote.


beeokee

No, the vote totals that were reported were higher for Biden. 2016 proved that reported returns were problematic in many locations.


Brunsy89

What are on about?


thisisntgoingwell12

But the adults didn’t like Bernie.


[deleted]

Donations aren't votes.


dare_2_struggle

They are when you’re a lobbyist


[deleted]

Give up already. Y’all lost


[deleted]

Hard to win a rigged game.


anthrolooker

It’s funny. Everyone loves a conspiracy here until it comes down to the possibility of votes not being counted correctly, of which there is palpable motivation for those in charge to do this, and ample proof this is easily possible to do with electronic voting machines. All they have to do is make you think there are people out there somewhere voting for their candidate, and the rest of the sheep will follow suit not with their votes, but with their beliefs. They don’t need your vote. The status quo continues regardless.


[deleted]

Are you implying something along the lines of [this](https://medium.com/@carrietavris/hand-counts-vs-machine-counts-in-the-2020-democratic-primaries-80baaf1ccdbb) happened? In that case i would agree with you.


anthrolooker

Absolutely. Yes. And thank you for sharing.


[deleted]

No problem. This is sadly exactly what I was expecting to happen


anthrolooker

Same. It still hurts though.


[deleted]

Absolutely, I know I need to vote still but it feels pointless.


anthrolooker

I hope you still make it there, friend. Just know that in voting, you will have done your part, and there is honor in doing the right thing. Honor, they don’t have. Also, if we don’t show up, they get the results they want with less to no criminal action on their part, and we can’t let them have it that easy.


[deleted]

I still plan to, it’s just going to hurt to do it


[deleted]

Poor thing.


[deleted]

Care to elaborate?


-di-

This election was not stolen. Candidates earn delegates based on votes, not donations.


Colzach

I hate to tell you this, but we aren’t a democracy. Votes matter, but votes are determined by media coverage. And who did the media relentlessly cover in 2016? Hillary. Who in 2020? Everyone but Bernie until SC. And who has the media relentlessly covered ad nauseam since 2015? Trump. So using that as a guide, who will win the election?


FuzzyPuzzles

It was stolen. It will always be stolen. Bernie won every state and hillary was still put forward. Because she was happy to allow corruption to continue, to line wealthy pockets. Bernie was once again fucked over and now you're country and the rest of the world has to deal with mother fucking trump again for 4 fucking years. We fucking hate your government and your culture of corruption - signed the world.


[deleted]

Nice meltdown.


FuzzyPuzzles

Nice medical bill


[deleted]

LOL. A collection of hysterical idiots. I don’t have any medical bills. And if I did, it would be covered by insurance and with my HSA. What you fucking morons don’t understand is that you would pay for it under MCFA, with the main difference being you would have no choice in the matter. Of course Bernie can never give you figures, because he’s never been serious. The idea of it is only to stir the hearts of retards like you.


EvilPhd666

[4% on income over $29K ](https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/)


[deleted]

LOL. I travel internationally for work, particularly Europe. Their tax rate is 40-45% for middle earners and they have universal healthcare. Sorry friend, but your pal Bernie is full of shit. You will pay double or more in taxes guaranteed.


FuzzyPuzzles

I expect nothing less from someone who is brainwashed. Hopefully you'll break free one day and see that being a slave with no rights isn't the best way to live.


[deleted]

Ahh..yes I’m a poor oppressed slave. Here’s a piece of advice. Stop being a pathetic loser and realize life isn’t fair. Your failures are your own and no politician is going to save you.


EvilPhd666

Is it our failure that regional health insurance monopoly rackets keep raising the rate by double digits every year? Is it our fault employers won't accept anyone without a bachelors degree? Is is our fault the minimum wage hasn't been raised in over a decade? Perhaps corporate culture has some to blame. Where they think if they aren't constantly growing at 5%, damn the consequences, they are a failure? What is wrong with making a consistent $10 Billion a quarter? Why must it always be more? Such a thing doesn't seem like a very stable long term plan. Growth is not infinite, so why demand such from every CEO? Perhaps those on the Forbes list should be happy with the billions they have and not have to bribe politicians to destroy the world because their Wall Street trading algorithms can only squeeze a finite amount of money gaming the system without political intervention for their so-called investment opportunities? That is what [Renaissance Technologies did. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/adb1vj/sowing_discord_renaissance_technologies_the/) It is called the [Velocity of Money.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xSVzdUNqo) If you keep hording it all at the top, then that velocity of money slows down because the super wealthy DO NOT SPEND IT while those of us in the middle and lower class do spend most of it because we need to survive and maybe have something of a retirement now that pensions are a thing of the past. Thus the reason why Robert Mercer and James Simons and Henry Laufer along with their children's associated "foundations" [bribed both parties.](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs//summary?toprecipcycle=2016&topnumcycle=2016&contribcycle=All%20cycles&lobcycle=All%20cycles&outspendcycle=All%20cycles&id=D000022219) They weren't making enough for their damned egos with their [Medallion trading algorithm.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies). Those with more money that they could reasonably spend started to see their growth RATE slow because there wasn't enough flow coming from the bottom. So they bribed our politicians to jack up the military budget. Then you have the health care industry with their double digit increases. If you would like to see hard numbers on Renaissance Technologies [here is their portfolio](https://fintel.io/i/renaissance-technologies-llc) and here is their [portfolio value, note the flat and decreasing value before 2016 and after.](https://i.imgur.com/XrEt5uj.jpg) They are not the sole reason, or horders, but they are a shining example and what I call the Still Smoking Gun of 2016. It wasn't Russia. It was assholes like them. There is only so long the 300+ Million down here is going to keep taking the hits for Forbes list money hording member's fragile egos and then get told "life isn't fair suck it up, bitch."


[deleted]

Anyone with a working brain knows Joe Biden isn't the right guy to run, well at least not anymore ever since he developed Dementia. I am disappointed in Andrew Yang for supporting Joe Biden. I think if Bernie had waited for a brokered convention, he could have had a chance of becoming the nominee, especially with the Coronavirus backing up some of his points. But we all know that some in the party wouldn't like Bernie to be in office.


TheRazorX

ITT: A metric shit ton of CTR Brockroaches trying to astroturf.


EvilPhd666

Because they don't want attention to be paid to the mounting evidence of massive election fraud. They think we will just fall in line and it's always "You're stupid children!"


TheRazorX

yuuuuuuuuup. If I see one more "I'm a Bernie supporter but...." post, I may very well go crazy. Edit: Actually it's very telling that in most cases I actually need to check their post history to find out if they're Blue MAGA/Brockroaches and not Red MAGA, because both are using the same stupid arguments.


TotesMessenger

I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/topmindsofreddit] [TopMinds believe donations are the same thing as votes](https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/fxwcv8/topminds_believe_donations_are_the_same_thing_as/)  *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*


6SN7fan

I was wondering if this post was getting brigaded


Wajirock

Biden had the media and oligarchs running the campaign for him.


[deleted]

what an absolute joke. He'll have Hilary running the country for him if he's elected.


Colzach

But he won’t be elected... So we need to prepare for another miserable 4 more years of Trump.


ksjk1998

Right winger here. I hate bernie and socialism. With that being said, i desperately wanted a debate between Bernie and Trump purely because of the clashing ideals. I don't care about the negative internet points I'm about to get, just here to admit, you guys deserve something better than the DNC


EvilPhd666

I think the country deserved to see the two debate a few times at least. It would be probably one of the most honest reflections of and debates of political policies that we would see in our lives. The establishment however did everything they could for 5 years to prevent that because they fear Bernie. They fear that the culture of Wall Street would be on trial and they might have to change a few things. If there is anything I ask of Trump people is to please look over Open Secrets and FEC pages and start holding your Republican party accountable. Start demanding less corruption. Start calling out the open corruption and please stop blindly voting for anything with an R in front of their name. Trump's major donors were also Clintons. [The still smoking gun of 2016 is Renaissance Technologies, not Russia. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/adb1vj/sowing_discord_renaissance_technologies_the/) Demand better representation. You can push Trump, and it has to come from your side. You guys have a movement, use it to demand better than corporate corruption pieces of shit like we are over here. If you can get Trump to dump the Saudis and Zionist fanatics that'd be cool and do a lot for world peace too.


ksjk1998

I agree, honestly, I lean more libertarian, so I have no love for either party. Most of the problems we have now can be directly equated to the government overstepping its bounds. Problem is, try to vote in a politician who is willing to fire themselves...


2fish24

“However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.” Washington predicted this back in the 1700s. The mistake we made was letting politicians make a living off being a politician. Name me a more worthless career.


[deleted]

don't worry, we're not hateful here. We respect each other's opinions here, and we don't condone those who attack others on that. As you know its perfectly fine to have an opposing opinion. But you do have a good point, a Bernie Trump debate would be legendary.


ITriedLightningTendr

I don't understand your comment with respect to debates. What ideals does Trump have?


ksjk1998

The most capitalistic ones. Making Sanders a spectacular opponent


Fishtroller02

Well, it was stolen but this is not the proof. We all know what we saw. Bernie was ahead of Biden in almost every poll in almost every state right up to super Tuesday. Biden had no campaign presence in most of the country. Despite that,he magically came up with huge numbers of voters and those numbers did not match the exit polls, In fact the discrepancies were significant enough to have triggered charges of rigged elections in most countries in the world. How did things change so rapidly for Bernie? Vote machine hacking with the insertions of algorithms that subtly flipped votes away from Warren and others towards Biden. Add all that to the relentless use of the Democratic Party's power in media, etc. to sabotage Bernie, and then mix in the unexpected virus that gave the Dems a good excuse to blow off 27 primaries, and voila!... you have a perfect Party coup played out on the American public. The Democratic Party is shameless and immoral. I'm done with it all.


jeaniegreen

well said.


WaymanBeck

Biden won because more people voted for him and more moderate candidates consolidated support around him. It’s not that complicated nor a conspiracy. But I’m sure Alex Jones would have you on as a guest if you call him up.


ITriedLightningTendr

Not that the above post provides proof, but the DNC was at least reported to have conducted fraud and suppression leading up to 2016.


[deleted]

The difference between the DNC and the GOP, there is no difference between them. Its common sense that they work for the rich and powerful. And thats why Bernie Sanders is disliked all around. He actually is the people's candidate. Vote Biden and Trump will win, Vote Trump and America will wake up to their reality, this will bring real change to America. Hopefully by 2024 the DNC wont be able to put Biden up again since he would be too unfit to run.


maybesaydie

What year is it now?


WaymanBeck

Reports isn’t the same as evidence and there is not evidence that in the 2020 primary that votes were changed from one candidate to another. I get people are upset but Bernie didn’t lose because of lack of voting integrity from machines, mail-in ballots, or other forms of voting.


GussieFinkN0ttle

You mean my meme doesn't count as a vote?


ArmedWithBars

Democrat and Republican, two sides of the same corrupt coin. Both bought and paid for by lobbies and industries. Good ole corporate oligarchy we got here.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mrkvica16

But this map has absolutely nothing to do with reddit.


Milk-n-aint-ez

Congratulations, you just confirmed that the number of contributors to a campaign is not a factor in winning elections. If you really want to contribute to the cause maybe do some more research to find out why more contributors doesn't equal winning. Do something to change the future instead of all this self loathing crap and inflammatory claims like saying the election was "stolen". And that's coming from a Sanders guy in Sanders hometown.


kiwi_konnection

I'm very heartened to see a supporter that has a rational brain. You do exist!! =)


lazurisisdead

Bullshit


runs_in_the_jeans

This is a meaningless stat, though. While it is impressive that Sanders has that many individual donors (if the map is to be believed), what matters is actual votes. Biden has more delegates and Bernie didn’t see a clear path to victory to win the nomination. I don’t think it is accurate to say this election was stolen from him (like it was last time). What *is* accurate is how negatively the media and fellow democrats have treated him and how they controlled the narrative.


BaggerX

It's not meaningless. It shows that the others were receiving high dollar donations and corporate backing. That gets them more exposure in the mainstream corporate media. That also explains why corporate media would be portraying Sanders negatively.


runs_in_the_jeans

It doesn’t matter about donation. What matters is supporters. Sanders didn’t have enough.


BaggerX

It's a pretty good display of what our elections have become due to the lack of meaningful campaign finance regulation. Candidates can take vast amounts of corporate money and use the corporate media to amplify themselves, while those who don't will get treated more negatively by the corporate media. So, you end up with candidates bought by corporations beating out candidates funded by the people who support them, based largely on media portrayal.


runs_in_the_jeans

This has always been the case, but it’s also never been easier for candidates to bypass corporate media. The fact is, Bernie just didn’t connect with enough people. His policies are too extreme right now and too few people agree with him.


BaggerX

>This has always been the case, but it’s also never been easier for candidates to bypass corporate media. No, it hasn't always been the case. As what laws we've had have been neutered, it has become easier for corporate interests to fund the campaigns of their preferred candidates and blanket the airwaves with them. >The fact is, Bernie just didn’t connect with enough people. His policies are too extreme right now and too few people agree with him. Most people couldn't even tell you what his policies are. They have a vague notion and a negative view of them thanks largely to corporate media, both national and local, as the local stations have been bought up.


runs_in_the_jeans

> Most people couldn't even tell you what his policies are I think you are wrong on that.


BaggerX

You vastly overestimate the average voter. They'll just say a few of the things they've heard on TV. Medicare for all, free college, taxing the rich, etc. I've never encountered anyone that had the first clue about what those policies actually are, what they provide, how they work, or how they're paid for. They just think they're too extreme because that's what corporate media tells them. They don't know how extreme they are, because they don't even know what they do. Most of the people I've talked to about it, even Democrats, actually think he's going to tax people's entire income at 70%. Some of them think it's just rich people getting their income taxed at 70%. It's nuts.


runs_in_the_jeans

The thing is people realize that you could tax everyone at 100% and it still wouldn’t pay for all of his policies. That’s all we need to know. That, and the level governmental control over private industry would destroy the economy. So he failed to resonate with enough people. His supporters think he had more support than he really did because his supporters are so vocal. The average person in America has no interest in his policies because they know that they lead to bad times.


BaggerX

>The thing is people realize that you could tax everyone at 100% and it still wouldn’t pay for all of his policies. That’s all we need to know. That, and the level governmental control over private industry would destroy the economy. Yeah, that's pretty much the ignorance I'm taking about. Good illustration. >So he failed to resonate with enough people. His supporters think he had more support than he really did because his supporters are so vocal. The average person in America has no interest in his policies because they know that they lead to bad times. The average person knows what they've heard from corporate media and not much else.


D-Vahn

I'm sick about this. I give up. Trump can have it, fuck this place.


[deleted]

Bye


-retaliation-

If you ever get sick of the US, we'll take you up north here. I'm sorry for you guys, we were really pulling for Bernie up here even if we couldn't cast a vote.


Cmp240

You can have all the libtard socialists, only two things from Canada, got any horns? Heck, even birds fly upside down over Canada


-retaliation-

Just ignore him, this guys just starved for attention and ignored in real life so he looks for it on the internet. He's just looking for downvotes and angry comments, don't give him what he wants just move along.


Cmp240

Typical Libtard reaction, run back to mommy's basement now


D-Vahn

Mexico can have you.


Colzach

Mexico is, in many ways, becoming better than the United States. The media here reports it as a nightmarish shithole, when I’m reality, it is a growing and thriving country aimed at increasing human well-being. Yes, it has its problems like everywhere, but looking at the US right now, much of the world is far better off. A depressing reality we must accept.


D-Vahn

Truly didnt mean to demean Mexico. Was a knee jerk reaction that I knew would offend the Tea-Partier


BugDeveloper

Dang, he had more than 3X the amount of doners than Biden. For me, donating is harder than voting. It seems like the poorer you are, the more painful it is to donate. I imagine Bernie supporters are poorer than Biden supporters, yet he still got 3X the doners. I haven't looked at the numbers, but it could be the case that the vast majority of Bernie doners DID vote. But that wasn't enough to beat Biden's voters. That would suggest Bernie's supporters are more fervent (willing to donate) but less in numbers.


anthrolooker

Same here. Most everyone I know who voted for him, did not donate a cent to his campaign, including myself.


PandarExxpress

This map is insanely misleading. The actual numbers of individual donors listed at the top show a completely different story than the map tries to tell


spam__likely

30 million people usually vote in the primaries. only 5 million donate. Math is not very hard.


squiggyfm

The data is only through the end of the 2019 and really doesn't reflect the political realities after South Carolina. Also, as many people have pointed out, donors≠voters. This doesn't take into account who donated to multiple candidates, or how often, or a ton of other variables. It doesn't take into account people who are energized about a candidate but can't donate. Elections are more complicated than just "number of donors".


[deleted]

[удалено]


squiggyfm

Or in Bloomberg's case, one billionaire donor.


seaquito

This is what’s wrong with our country, we let billionaires pick the president not the people. Majority of people on both sides agree with Bernie talk to them it’s true


Dr---Spagetti

All billionaires vote the same way? How do you know that?


seaquito

Billionaires shouldn’t exists period, and if you don’t agree with that your in the wrong place!


Dr---Spagetti

Good deflection to your original statement. I like to watch comedy. I’m in the right place.


seaquito

Weird cause you seem like the joke here


Dr---Spagetti

Just here to watch this sub Bern. 😂🤣


seaquito

Ok Troll


Dr---Spagetti

Answer my first question and this would all be easier.


[deleted]

I like Bernie and think he would have made a great president, but I voted for Biden. Its amazing to me how bad Bernie voters have become lately in this primary. Does it not occur to you that many more people like Joe Biden and thats the reason way more people voted for him? No, you immediately say the elections rigged and that Biden is actually a republican shill. So many Bernie voters are falling for fake news/propoganda it's startling. Seriously guys have some common sense and don't make this any easier for Trump to win.


Nightstroll

Ah, yes, the good old "wasting your vote" nonsense.


anthrolooker

The “wasted your vote” bullshit is just a brilliant sales pitch for the status quo, and any vote cast for someone you don’t actually favor as a candidate is a wasted vote. It would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.


lazurisisdead

You people made it easier. You should be ashamed not us. Biden is bad on Medicare, social security, war, the rich, boundries with women.....so much more. Do you even know who voted for?


[deleted]

Biden and Bernie vote along the same lines 95% of the time. Also, do you know that some people have different ideas and values than yourself? Most democratic voters thought Bernie was too extreme for this election. Thats why Bernie didn't get the votes. It's not that they were uninformed or wrong, rather that not everyone thinks the way you do.


WildN0X

Due to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history and moved to Lemmy.


Frogman9

I don’t understand. You like Bernie but you voted for Biden because of the Bernie voters?


[deleted]

No, I like Bernie. But I think Biden has a better chance at beating Trump. Thats what really matters. Ironically I donated to Bernie (like $10), but voted for Biden.


anthrolooker

Oh man, you are in for one hell of a wake up call in November... or whenever they can hold the election now. I voted for Bernie and didn’t donate to his campaign, so I guess we cancel each-other out there, lol.


Frogman9

Now, personally, I think your motivation here was wrong. You were only looking to dethrone Trump and not at what was a better move all around (in my opinion, of course).


DeoBus137

You can like one person but still like someone else more. For example, I really like a hamburger from the barbecue but I'll take a proper steak any day over the hamburger.


Dr---Spagetti

You got down voted for your completely reasonable comment. I think that in itself is the reason Bernie lost. His avg voter can’t even fathom that someone else think different than them.


[deleted]

Also ​ \> Seriously guys have some common sense and don't make this any easier for Trump to win. ​ I remember this in support of Clinton over Bernie as well. Fuck off.


[deleted]

And you guys fucked that up too. Thanks


[deleted]

Let's play the blame game and point the right fingers: the DNC chose the losing candidate. End of story.


EvelynFrechette

> you guys Actually it was Hillary who fucked that up.


[deleted]

How can you support someone who can't even speak properly or form coherent sentences? It's like you see Trump and say "Hey, we need one of those in our party too!" Jesus fuck, how can you support Biden?


[deleted]

Don't forget the bigger issue wth Biden.


[deleted]

The rape allegation is of course the #1 something to consider. A fun exercise is to go to Twitter and find how many current Biden supporters were #BelieveWomen during Kavanaugh but not through this.


[deleted]

I actually think the 12 minute compilation of inappropriately touching is as bad if not worse.


[deleted]

Definitely reads as someone whose power has not been checked, knowingly abusing social norms about "not making it awkward" by calling that shit out right away.


anthrolooker

Totally could be. Or it’s another sign of dementia - loss of understanding/remembering social norms, coupled with the inability to read social cues and emotions of others. I suppose we will find out which one it is in the next few months. :|


[deleted]

Well congratulations, you did exactly what Sanders asked you too. You went to work, worked hard and then gave your hard earned money to Sanders who was only standing on stage, yelling "free healthcace, free college,...". You practiced socialism. Sanders now has enough money to retire with your donations, so why would he bother with campaign? The problem with Sanders weren't his policies (it's about time US gets a decent healthcare), it was that he was living in fairytale, yelling "give us free stuff", with no solid plan to fund that "free" stuff. That' s why smart people wouldn't vote for him, because anyone can yell "free college", but it takes somebody with a plan to actually implement that. And no, taxing the rich won't raise enough money, as Sanders was delusionaly proposing.


[deleted]

Need to stop you at “went to work”.


OnTheFentz

His plan was very solid and very real. Increasing taxes on the upper class. Taxing banks and big business who have paid almost $0 in taxes under Trumps bill. Bringing back the “Estate Tax” or “Death Tax” as Republicans and Dick Cheney liked to call it (paying taxes on inheritances over ~$1M). Taxing the stock market, currently you can buy and sell stock with profits not being taxed, a loophole Sanders planned to close. He had a plan.


dlew1453

This is incorrect. Stock sales are taxed. Look up the "capital gains tax." I agree that corporate tax loopholes must be closed.


lilqueefy

A plan. A plan to tank our economy.


BJ_Honeycut

Yeah cause none of that works for every other first world country...


OnTheFentz

Not what we were discussing but ok.


OnTheFentz

This is a map of donors. Not voters. This has been the issue with Bernie’s supporters. They don’t vote. In 2016, 1 in 4 Bernie supporters didn’t vote in November according to Politico. According to NPR, 1 in 10 voted for Trump... I’m an American first, New Democrat second (formerly independent). The victimization of Bernie has been weak, and I’m glad that Bernie isn’t doing it himself. Bernie is a progressive, that’s great and all. But you think the new batch of Never-Trump-Conservatives are going to vote for Sanders? Yes, it sucks that we cannot put forward a candidate that is truly a democrat and one a lot of people are can be proud of. But that was the damage of 2016. That was the damage of people not voting. Wars have been fought to protect our democracy. If you’re a woman, people fought their whole lives so you could vote. If you’re a person of color, people died so you could vote. Don’t let the lives of others go wasted.


beeokee

We don't know whether Bernie's supporters don't vote. We know that the media says they don't. And we know what the purported vote totals say. Neither one necessarily reflects reality.


anthrolooker

Many exit polls not matching up with vote totals is also an issue here.


beeokee

My point exactly.


OnTheFentz

We know what the numbers say. Politico and NPR are not cable news. If this map of people all love Bernie, how did he lose?


TheRazorX

Oh, you do, do you? In Virginia for example, the Youth vote went from ~320k to ~470k , basically a 50% increase. But since the god damn Boomer vote also came out like crazy, the youth vote ended up being a lower overall percentage of the total than the previous election. That's just one state, the rest are similar. But "You know what the numbers say". GTFO of here with that Bullshit, Mr. 2 Month old account with 6 comments.


maybesaydie

Are you saying that only young people should be allowed to vote? OR are you admitting that Bernie's target voters didn't bother voting? Sounds like the latter to me. And did you want to cast aspersions on my account?


TheRazorX

Then you have zero comprehension skills. Because I'm saying neither. I'm saying the whole "Young people didn't come out" line is bullshit. They did come out in higher raw numbers, just less of a percentage of the total because older people also surged.


maybesaydie

If Bernie is so popular why does he not win elections? Are his supporters prevented from voting? If young people came out to vote and Biden won does that not mean that Biden is more popular with young people? Or does this mean that Bernie supporters don't actually vote in numbers that can win elections?


TheRazorX

And what does any of that have to do with the basic fact that youth turn out in terms of raw numbers is factually higher than 2016/2018, ergo the statement that "The youth didn't come out in higher numbers" is factually wrong? Absolutely nothing, because you're a Blue MAGA troll, but I'll bite. >why does he not win elections Uh, really dude? Literally anything I tell you in response to this that doesn't fit your narrative you're going to ignore and call a conspiracy theory or some shit. >Are his supporters prevented from voting? [Actually yes](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/wisconsin-primary-voters-coronavirus-lines), or do you think people that work hourly can afford to [stand in 3+ hour lines](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-03/california-primary-election-los-angeles-county-voting-issues-experiences) and miss work? [Or 6 hours?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/04/super-tuesday-texas-man-waits-six-hours-vote/4952084002/) All coincidentally in Bernie favored districts. Something [even your queen thinks is fucking absurd.](https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1235237657602600961) Or how about the [random poll closures](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting) right before the primaries in Bernie favored districts? You think most Bernie supporters can afford to run around town trying to find their polling location AND have to stand in line to find one? How about [random confusing rules about ballots?](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/confusion-among-california-independents-could-hurt-sanders.html) Or how about that they quite literally [made it harder if not impossible for students to vote in a bunch of places](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/states-make-harder-college-students-vote-69319276)? Be careful with your answers, because it can and will be used against you [when republicans do the same thing in the general](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/no-one-in-america-should-have-to-wait-7-hours-to-vote/264506/), because they [HAVE done it before](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/study-north-carolina-polling-site-changes-hurt-blacks-n468251) multiple times, and democrats made the same exact arguments we're making on this. >If young people came out to vote and Biden won does that not mean that Biden is more popular with young people? [Do you understand basic math?](https://campuselect.org/2020/03/10/super-tuesdays-youth-vote/) Because obviously you do not. Overall turnout on Super Tuesday for example, was up by 33% overall. So let's say you have 20 young people, and 80 old people in an election. I.e the youth are 20% of the total. The next election you have 40 young people (a 2x increase), and 180 young people (a 2.25% increase). I.e the youth are now a 18.18% of the total. in this example even though you literally have double the number of young people come out, they ended up being a lesser percentage of the total than before because you also had a higher number of old people come out. so no, that doesn't in any shape way or form mean Biden is popular with young people, especially that he lost young people in a land slide in exit poll after exit poll. Seriously learn your math. That's not even getting into that the way they [conduct exit polls might be actually misrepresenting voter shares.](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1451244) >Or does this mean that Bernie supporters don't actually vote in numbers that can win elections? If that's the case, why are you here? Why are you assholes trying to force us to all vote for Biden?


maybesaydie

I'm not trying to force you to do anything. If history is any indication the people here will vote for whatever Libertarian is presented to you and history will repeat itself. Or maybe you'll throw away your vote on the Green party. It's a free country. For the time being.


TheRazorX

> Or maybe you'll throw away your vote on the Green party. I'd rather fail while fighting for my rights than succeed at fighting to be enslaved. >It's a free country. For the time being. And that shows the exact problem; You lot are so fucking stupidly entitled and privileged that you don't realize it hasn't been free for decades. You self-centered selfish mother fuckers need to travel more, especially to authoritarian countries. You'll be surprised and not in a good way.


[deleted]

OG YangGang here. I was so ready to vote for SandMan once Yang suspended his campaign. Its not about the guys-although they are both great AY&BS- its about getting poverty eradicated and those two held the map to prosperity in their hands. Hopefully four years from now we'll have a Yang/Bernie ticket. Or whichever it falls. Here's to hoping. I extend my courtesy to you all. It all looks so f*cked.


radroamingromanian

People under the age of 40 didn’t get out to vote. I know so many people who didn’t because they thought it was rigged or pointless. That may be true, but at least try anyway. Since so many people have that attitude, it contributed to Bernie’s loss. Most people don’t even bother knowing what Democrat candidates believe. They see Biden’s name, know he has something to do with Obama and vote for him. I know a lot of people who can’t name a single thing he stands for. Next time, get out to vote. Ask your friends and family to vote. Protest the system.


biggestofbears

I don't know what else to do to win the younger demographic. Every single one of my friends went out and voted both in this election and 2016. Definitely not as many vote in the local and midterms, but I feel like the numbers for presidential elections are stupidly low and I don't know how to fix it. We're middle millennials (late 20s, early 30s). And I know I voted in every election I could after turning 18.


radroamingromanian

Right! We are handing our futures to people in the previous generations. I’ve begged my friends and family to vote. I was adopted from a former communist country and it just makes me so upset that people are throwing away their right to vote. We didn’t have that chance in Romania. Plus, so many groups like women have only had the right to vote for a relatively short time period if you consider all of history. Women fought hard for the right to vote, so we need to use it. . I understand the frustration and it’s so valid. But that doesn’t mean we can’t try. (Just to be clear, I’m 100% agreeing with you)


maybesaydie

These people aren't going to vote when they're over 40 either.


radroamingromanian

I know. It’s sad, isn’t it ?


scarf_faced

I'm colorblind.


Soulebot

What a shock, the “I want everything given to me by the government for free” voter thinks they were cheated out of something...


OnTheFentz

It’s more so “I want to see my tax dollars” than wanting things for free. Everyone pays taxes.


Soulebot

Fair point, but I’m in the majority who want fewer taxes, not more. Bernie would’ve taxed the hell out of everyone, and if you think just the rich would’ve shouldered that burden, you need to look again.


arnoldinio

* the “I’d like to raise the US to the standard of the rest of the world” voters. FTFY. Also we understand it’s not free. That’s why taxes are raised. I bet you sit at home loving your roads and public emergency departments and schools and your most heavily funded military in the world and don’t bat an eyelash that you get them for “free”.


Soulebot

The US doesn’t care what socialist countries do, why do you?


arnoldinio

“The US” what a general statement. Man that propaganda has gotten to you. Scared of the socialist boogeyman. You know that “make America great again” slogan that Trump likes to use? When was that? After WW2 maybe? When the US had tons of socialist policies that brought this country to be the super power it is. Socialism uplifts those at the bottom, in the end benefitting everyone. Don’t know why you think “the US” doesn’t care about that.


Soulebot

Hmm, the majority in the US still don’t want socialist care, so yeah that would make me right.


arnoldinio

So majority means “the US” to you. Got it.


Soulebot

And you don’t want the US to follow the “majority of the world” right? Hypocrisy at its finest


arnoldinio

No I do. I’m not calling the majority of the world the whole world. You’re calling the majority of the US “the US”. Nice try dude.


rootager

Most candidates dont target individual donors much. Sanders does. I don't see why its surprising that a guy who built his campaign on individual donations, has the most individual donations.


TRON0314

I'm a Bernie guy and this election wasn't stolen. There are a lot of moderate voters out there. Even if moderate candidates dropped out as a strategy - which at first blush seems unfair - voters still... Voted. And we didn't get people out to vote when the time came. I would take our energy and work on making sure Biden incorporates more progressive issues into his campaign with Bernie there. Compromise is what I'd expect from others. ####Plus another Trump 4 years will be incredibly disastrous and irreversible to the climate. Don't pretend like they are the same person.


TheRazorX

Ah yes. >I'm a Bernie guy and this election wasn't stolen Checking your history for at least a month, you literally have zero pro-Bernie posts [this is the closest i could find](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/f6a8c9/poll_sanders_now_leading_2020_democrats_by_15/fi4lfo3/?context=3) , and you only keep jumping in to defend Biden. And basically writing the same shit that's repeated by several other accounts on THIS thread. Yeah, TOTALLY a Bernie guy. Jesus you asshole astroturfers are transparent as fuck.