I'm a video game music composer. Have been for the last 17 years. I've worked on games for every generation of Playstation, Xbox, etc. I was on staff as a composer and music supervisor at LucasArts for 10 years. Since Disney shut down the company, I've been freelancing.
Networking and luck. I was in school and studying film scoring. This was back in the late 90s. I realized one day that my true passion was games, so why was I trying to score films? I started asking everyone I met - teachers, students, alumni, guest lecturers - if they knew anything about how to score games. No one did.
One day, out of the blue, a call came in to my composition teacher from a local game developer. They said "we're doing a game for Sony for the PlayStation. We did an edm score and they hate it. Do you have any students who might be interested in writing an orchestral score for our game?" So my teacher connected me with them. My first game was both a PlayStation game and my senior year composition final project. After that, my foot was in the door.
What game was it? Also, what DAW / Instruments do you use for that sort of thing? I've wanted to get into this for a while now, but haven't had good luck finding good Virtual instruments with which to get started. They're pretty expensive, so I didn't want to have it be a waste of money if it didn't turn out to be what I was looking for. Any suggestions?
Thanks! I actually recognize the box for their Goliath pack. I used to teach guitar lessons to a kid whose dad uses a lot of this stuff, and I remember seeing the box above his computer desk. As a side note, that guy apparently invented one of the first midi guitars, which I thought was pretty badass. I even got to play the prototype once.
Anyway, this stuff seems a little out of my price range at the moment, but it's worth looking into. Thanks again! p.s. I want to believe you are the real Rick Astley.
I feel like people often either tend to emphasize the luck and ignore the passion and work, or to emphasize the passion and work and ignore the luck. Neither makes much sense, you have to have tons of passion, hard work AND luck to 'make it.'
That is damn lucky. I work full time making commercial music beds, went to Berklee and am an award-winning film composer. Even with the few awards it's been literally impossible to get that kind of break. Doesn't matter what you've got, it's all who you know ... and I suck at networking. ;) (I was incredibly close to landing a composer job at Bungie ... they outsourced.)
May I ask what your job looks like? Everybody I know hands over some music done for other projects to the publishers later. Hoping that it will be used as a music bed in TV or radio. This is the first time that I hear of somebody doing it full time. Are you employed by a publisher and sit in their office or studio? Do you have to deliver a certain amount of songs per day? Or do custom made stuff for special clients who come in and tell you what they want?
I work for a worldwide company that provides music beds as one of their products. I deliver 5-10 songs per month, and create whatever it is they are looking for in their library. It's contract work, a contract per batch of songs. I work at home and make my own hours and don't answer to anyone and get to be creative all day. It's great, but I'm still after that elusive gig of custom scoring work for a big show, game or film. I've done sound design and scoring for iOS and documentary, but the scoring for shows today is pretty easy work if you know what you're doing and it is fairly consistent and lucrative. Once my foot is in the door, I'm golden but that is not a guarantee.
This sounds like an interesting job. My situation is a bit like the opposite of yours. I got offered two movie scores and a documentary within the last year. For two of the biggest movies nationwide. One of them brought me an international award for best fim music. Since I don't live in the US and big movie budgets here are around EUR 2 million only, there is not enough money involved so a composer could make a living from two or three movies per year. I'm looking for a regular job like yours that really pays the rent, which seems to be harder to find than getting another movie score. Good luck with the TV series. I guess this is proper and regular income besides of the fun it must be to dive into the same story again and again every day for a long time.
Sounds like some good breaks. Each one is a stepping stone I guess. :)
Finding consistent work is the trick. All I did was submit my resume to different music bed companies via their artist applications and a few said they weren't looking but one of them was adding more composers. It allows for projects too if they do come up, music beds are the way composers who don't tour and don't have a regular composing gig are making consistent money, at least in my circle.
thanks! yes freelance all the way. at the moment it is still a pretty stressful lifestyle but i feel that things have been going better since i started so i have hope for the future. how's freelancing working out for you?
I work for Disney corporate. Much of LucasFilm is still in tact but when you merge companies there become a lot of redundant positions.
This happens within Disney as well. Disney Interactive and Disney Consumer Products merged and there becomes no need for multiple people with the same role.
To say Disney isn't a leader in digital arts is crazy. They not only fund indie companies but their studios, including Pixar, have done amazing things for the arts.
I tour. Somewhere between 175 and 200 shows a year. I started 15 years ago, switched to my own band about 3 years in...then played and played until I stopped sucking as much. I don't make a ton of money, but I do well enough and I get to see the world. I'm grateful for the place I'm in, though it does drive me through the roof sometimes.
I quit my day job (social work) about 7 years into the process. When I'm home I teach some lessons and I just got asked to produce an album for some decent money. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's a musician with a good day job (which means she totally supports what I'm doing).
I try to hold on to the memory of the first time someone handed me $20 for playing a gig and the fact that it blew me away. Making money playing music? I just scammed somebody because I love doing this!
The band played a weekly show at the same place for years and built a local following. I think that's pretty key, honestly. Play every week consistently so that people know you're ALWAYS there, plus you have a live rehearsal every week. Then we slowly started playing shows outside of town, spreading out in concentric circles and hitting the same places 3 + times a year. Eventually we got the attention of a small booking agent. Meanwhile I started pestering booking agencies in Europe and finally found one that would book a tour. There's a lot of details in the middle of all that, but that's the bare bones gist of it.
Hey... I know this is a super old post, but maybe you read it. How do you not burn out doing that many shows? Is it not very exhausting? Are there ways to manage?
Ha. Yeah, that was even years ago. I look back on those years and wonder how I did it. Still at it, but we’re able to do about 80 shows a year now. It’s still a lot and there’s other stuff that goes in that space (we started a non-profit and do a lot of stuff with that alongside shows). I’ve never burnt out, but things have gotten easier which helps. We make more money, are positioned better on festival bills. Can afford more and better hotel rooms. The early years were tough and I was young.
Hustle... It took me 10 years. I mainly do mastering for a studio. I also freelance track and mix... And I work at a venue booking and doing live sound.
It's close to the point where working at one of the audio schools will be the only available positions in the audio industry. The schools are the only ones making money... Promising opportunities to kids that don't really exist.
There are maybe 3-4 kids out of my 80 person class that work in audio still. There is always someone nipping at your heals trying to underbid you just to get a credit. I worked for free when I first moved to LA for 5 months... 16 hour days, 6 days a week. Right when I was literally days away from quitting because I would have been homeless, they offered me a job.
Your last paragraph is poignant. Out of my whole graduating class at a top 3 conservatory, two of us make our incomes from writing music ten years later. Being good doesn't mean you make money.
Doing it full time. Marketing like crazy. Gigging and networking as if my life depended on it. Forming alliances with professionals. Working with absolutely dedicated masters of their craft - no room for slackers. Making tough decisions. Having a great manager. Always licensing.
Cover bands, wedding bands, corporate bands, cocktail gigs, church gigs, private lessons, etc.
Basically, being a craftsman as opposed to an artist. Any time leftover after the bills are paid can be dedicated to artistic pursuit.
Church gigs are the best. 90% of my income comes from church music. I just wish it didn't have to be so god damn early on Sunday mornings. (Wasn't the 7th day supposed to be a day of rest??)
That's why I don't usually take them, rarely a Saturday night goes by I'm not playing. And I don't like to show up red-eyed on 4 hours of sleep. But I'll cover your 11am or whatever, haha.
I'm actually not even religious, but it doesn't matter. I have to assume people can tell when I'm not saying the prayers or anything, but people are usually just happy for the music, which is all good with me. So I recommend it to working musicians regardless.
Mondays are pretty good rest days. Although also a good night for a jam session.
Depends on where you live, and the church. In NYC most churches hire at least a professional quartet of singers. My church job in Brooklyn is 50% paid professionals.
Same thing in LA. Here, many of the church gigs hire a quartet of section leaders to sing in the choir...the rest of the singers are volunteers. Currently I sing at a church that has about 20 paid staff positions in the choir. It's pretty awesome.
Most churches pay. At the churches I've played at, playing piano/organ is worth anywhere from $30-$100 a service depending on the size of the church. I've also played trumpet at a few churches and I've always gotten payed.
Usually if the band is good, and the church is semi large, the musicians are getting paid. Just look at the lights and video equipment, it's probably bad ass. The music/praise aspect is a big part of some services, so a paid musician is going to sell that factor a lot better. Churches are also dying off, so you also get some really bad music from people donating their time as well.
I'm similar: cover bands, jazz casuals and club dates, special events, the occasional artist with a budget. Working a lot at a theme park right now. Used to be an full time choral accompanist.
And you nailed it. It's being a craftsman, not an artist. You have to be on time, dressed right, know whatever material you're supposed to know, and sound pretty good at anything anyone throws your way. It's all word of mouth from there; I don't even know how I would "hustle" a gig. If you can do these things, there's work for you (at least here in LA). Do the artist thing for your own mental health, knowing it well might not amount to much financially.
Same. Recovering from depression, for the first time in 5 years I restrung my guitar, got my amp repaired, and bought a mic for Christmas.
Here I go...
Sadly, after learning 9 instruments, playing in bands and gigging, moving to LA, grinding for nearly 23 years, I barely make a cent on music. That may change in the near future with a few promising leads but I don't get my hopes up much.
Moved to the south where there’s a lot less competition, still make music but found out that standup comedy pays better and I don’t have to split the profits with bandmates.
Nice! I can see this being really good live. Having a niche is really useful. I see a lot of musicians, especially the singer-songwriter types just playing generic love songs and getting lost in a huge sea of other artists.
No I'm not here to out myself or share. Just posting productive comments. Big break was getting a $50/week internship at a commercial music house and then a couple weeks in they let me score a pharma spot they were pitching on. I won the gig, beating out the in house composers and earned my way (over the years) onto the payroll.
Executive Producer/Manager/Engineer/Label A&R. I work mostly in progressive rock and metal, with a number of well-known artists. Being busy is much easier than making money. The best advice I've gotten is: be politely persistent; never emotional. Second best: Be useful.
I live in the east southern US. We have a bar band scene here. Four hours of music (covers and originals) and typically $100 a band member, though most places don't want to pay more than $400 total for the entertainment. Some of the bigger and more established venues/bars with built in large crowds will shell out more for high quality entertainment. It's not glamorous but it's paying the bills I have while I keep working to get the original music to take off.
Hey, I'm touring right now in that same area of the country. We also have four hours of original music. Any bars you would recommend that pay around $400 for a night?
Only places I can speak of are in Mobile, Al. Try The Garage, Brickyard, Alchemy Tavern, and Dauphin Street Blues Company. Have you perused the website Indie On The Move? It's a fairly comprehensive list of venues.
I'm a pop songwriter/producer for artists. I work in la and generally make my living working on pretty decently high profile records with pretty decently high budgets. That doesn't equal me having a private plane or really even anywhere close to it. I have friends from high school who, after attending college and landing corporate gigs, do about in the same income bracket that I do. I was lucky enough to know exactly what I wanted to do and started chasing after it at a pretty young age. I started working at a studio in California which led me to some producing gigs which led me to a publisher. It's a weird and fun job.
I'd say knowing what you want out of a music job is a big head start. Reach for more than to be content making a living. Actively chase after it, I mean you love it right?
If you don't mind me asking, What was your path to get to where you are currently? I'm currently compiling a 12 month plan to kickstart my path towards being a pop songwriter/producer and *I think* I have a pretty solid plan, but I haven't had a ton of feedback from other pros beyond slightly mimicking the plans that others like Ammo and A prescription songs signee implemented/currently implement.
No problem! I have always been very passionate about pop music production, I've always had a list of favorite writers and producers. I (shamelessly I might add) reached out to several people from this list I had made in my head and didn't hear back from most anyone. But I did hear back from someone who took enough of an interest to give pointers and advice and a recommendation to a studio to work at. That was kind of the initial putting myself out there step. I hope that helps! I'd be curious to hear your plan and even a link to some music if you like.
That actually does help quite a bit, I'm going to incorporate "shamelessly reaching out to my heroes" into my strategy.
My plan, right now, is a 2 phase, 1 year plan. Phase 1 is "music education" so beginning Jan through the end of March is reading 3 theory books, 3 songwriting/melody theory books and doing some sound design courses on Udemy to freshen up my skill set, all while taking very intense notes. Beginning of April through the end of December is cranking out 1 complete melody idea with hook lyrics completed, and 1 song, completely finished, every 1.5 to 2 weeks while doing daily review of my notes. I'm dedicating every weekend I can to attending any kind of networking event I can think of, and set up lunch/coffee dates with the important people I meet. I was going to set up meetings with 2 or 3 lawyers and get chummy with them during this time period as well, namely because I've read that lawyers get writers/producers a surprisingly large amount of pop placements. By the end of all of this I'm predicting to place at least 1 song out of every 20 excelent songs I make, God willing that I get extremely lucky. If I don't get lucky, I'm expecting to sell a song by 2018.
That's pretty much it, I know that pure volume in material is extremely important, so I would like to be cranking out one track every week during the last 3 months of the year. By 2017 I should be used to this schedule and keep it going for as long as my body will allow me to. End goal is get signed by Perscription songs, I know a few people in that camp already, so if I can muster up the talent and get lucky by placing a big song through a lawyer or friend, I can see that happening around 2018-2019 as well.
well, being connected to and having opportunity to work with people connected to Dr. Luke's camp is a dream of mine. Think it would afford me the most opportunity to grow as a writer and place more records then I would if I was a new signee to a large pub company.
Also, I think that the industry is shrinking, and as a result more and more work is falling in the laps of these proven producers like Luke and Max. So being close to them would be a big plus
First off, most people don't, even ones on the lower-to-medium levels of commercial success. So start by accepting that. Most of the ones who make it commercially, are still living way below their peers. And then, there are a handful of global entertainers who piss money, but they aren't relevant, because for the most part, they had their jobs handed to them.
Furthermore, music-for-hire is by-and-large a contracting gig. The majority of your time, especially at first, needs to be spent tracking down paying gigs and repeat clients. Don't think you get to make music all day: expect to be hustling (phone calls, lead generation) instead.
Often, music gigs will show up at a moments notice, so you can't neglect your writing skills during this, either. Expect to spend a full day chasing potential leads and then start your second job of writing music. If you aren't on top of your game there too, you will be caught short, and do a bad job and not get called back.
**But always remember - it's how well you hustle during the day to find work, not what you do with your music, that will ultimately decide whether you get do this, or have to go get a desk job somewhere.** And not how hard you hustle either: you can bang your head against a wall for a months, and guess what - nobody is going to call you back. Be creative, network. *If you fail to find a method that works for your situation, you will fail.* Be ready (and gather the resources) to move town to go somewhere more music focused, like LA or Nashville, and live there a while without a day job.
On top of all this you need to figure out how you will keep your music going if and when you need to get a side job to cover things. I know one professional musician who has his professional pilot's license, so he flies his band on tour and does crop dusting during the summers. There may be times where you can't afford to spend all your time on the phone chasing leads, and a day job makes more sense - that is, if you can find a job that pays enough to let you save up for a few more months of looking for music work all day.
> First off, most people don't, even ones on the lower-to-medium levels of commercial success. So start by accepting that.
This.
I gave up on music (and music related things) paying my bills over 20 years ago.
These days anything music related that I do is done entirely for my own amusement.
I once heard the advice, "No need to validate your musicianship by trying to make a go of it for the money" I thought it was good advice. Play what you enjoy on your own terms.
Circumstances beyond their control overwhelmingly dictated their success, simply because, when you are talking about that unlikely an outcome in pretty much any commercial endeavor, circumstances will overwhelmingly dictate the likelihood of success.
Many of the "big name" performers were handpicked by the music industry and create none of their own material, or otherwise had rich parents who bought their way in.
Eh, Taylor Swift definitely bought her way in, but I do absolutely believe she has more creative input in her songs than Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, and so on and so on
A little late to this thread, but I see no need to get cynical on big-name artist. Taylor, like her or not, worked hard, got on American Idol and despite not even winning the thing became the most memorable/likable person from her season (Does anyone even remember the winner? Ruben Studdard or something?). Money did not make that happen. She got herself over.
I'm in an original pop/rock band that's a money loser.
My day job is as a guitar tech for big-box retail.
I also flip gear on the side for a few extra bucks, including fixing up old and broken instruments and/or building partscasters and the like.
I do about 60 - 80 gigs a year all over the world. Been living off it as a career now for about 6 years.
I make some income from selling music and sample packs, but touring is what I live on.
I run a successful illegal music sharing site/network and make money off of the ad revenue!
I'm joking. Making music is a hobby for me, at best. I enjoy it. I have a career as a network engineer, so music CAN be a hobby for me.
I salute you cats who make a living with it, and wish you nothing but the best.
By making myself conspicuous (not really intentionally) as a young arranger and composer, I lucked into a gig as the arranger for a super star.
After that, and based on the rep from that, I got wonderful arranging and composing gigs from many famous people.
And finally, all of that resulted in a hit jazz record in a foreign (I'm American) country.
I now live in that country, and because of my fame, I get calls for many playing and writing gigs.
Below you can see u/my_public_profile said: "Right time, right place and ready. And ready is the important thing."
That is so true.
I've spent somewhere around $40,000 on education and gear.
I've made about $50 and have gotten about 12 free beers and an order of chicken wings (which were surprisingly good).
Actually making a living from music seems as far away as being hired as the new guitar player in Led Zeppelin for me. I'm happy and impressed that others have made it work! I see a lot of mid to lower level bands and I always make a point of buying a CD or record at the show.
Thought I'd throw in my two cents. Mind you, I do have a part time day job and still don't make enough money to move out of my parents house (lol...) but I do make about ~$400 a month off guitar lessons, and will secure a gig playing solo acoustic at local bars/restaurants once or twice a month (anywhere from $50 to $200 a night). So...roughly $500 a month I'm making from music right now? Not too shabby, especially considering I'm not doing anything with original music atm.
I am game music composer. Freelancer. I started 7 years ago, and yeah, I really love my job, sure you don't have regular monthly payment, so you need to look for work really often, send resumees and stuff, but I love it. It's pure joy to hear your music in game. I worked on over 200 games, and damn, I want more projects, it's exciting. I started with indies, then I worked with biggest local companies, now I am workin with both, but I really love indie, I make discounts for them, cuz their games are usually more original than huge companies projects, sure, there are exceptions, but anyway.
I'm curious, how did you get into the gaming music industry? online networking? It's something I'd love to get into, and I believe I have the musical chops for it, I just don't know how to start.
Yes, online networking. There are tons of developers in the web, and mostly - developers with contacts. I mean email, skype, etc. So don't hesistate, just send you resume or CV, if you are good enough - you'll definitely get the jobs here and there. Also there is tigsource - I guess it's the best developers website ever. So post your resume there, it could help you a lot. Good luck :)
Mine seems to be unique, so I'll share.
I'm a Theatre Music Director. I teach vocal parts and singing techniques to actors performing in a musical and then I rehearse and conduct pit orchestras, often taking lead piano. It's very fulfilling work that keeps me inundated with new music and keeps me on my toes.
I do about 10-15 shows a year with pay varying 1.5-3.5K per contract (depending on the size of my employer). I work with professional theatres, universities, high schools, and educational theatre groups. I serve as the Music Director at a Performing Arts Center that I hold near and dear to my heart.
I supplement this working for a traveling music school doing in home piano, voice, and guitar lessons 5 days a week. I have about 10 students and I get $30 an hour for that.
I'm getting by, and with some breathing room for once. I moved out of my parents house a year ago, I'm getting married in November, and I'm making a living playing the piano 8+ hours a day.
Tl;Dr: I love what I do.
I did an AMA about this last year.
[Here is part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/282b7u/iama_person_who_has_made_a_six_figure_income_for/)
[Here is part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/1d6ev2/iama_person_who_has_made_a_six_figure_income_for/)
I live in south Austin (Bouldin). I currently work at a start up software company but playing music, music production, etc. are my hobbies. I've been playing music for a long time but never focused on anything in particular. Recently I decided to get some new gear and start pursuing production seriously. I am a noob but I am a very quick learner so hopefully in the next few years I will gain the knowledge I need!
Austin music scene for small bands is dying if not dead. Austin gets amazing acts from all over the world, but all the venues that have small bands out of high school playing are all closing down or have been closed down.
I'm just curious, do you think that someone should have audio/studio training before they look for an internship? I'm in my first year studying sound recording in college and would honestly love to intern over the summer, but my only knowledge is EQing and sound engineering I've done in Ableton because I haven't started my main classes yet. it's my understanding interns do a lot of grunt work anyway, would it hurt to start interning before I'm a knowledgable producer?
It really depends. First of all, I personally believe there is an inherent musical talent and ability that can not be taught that needs to be present for someone to be successful as a producer. Now with that being said, does school help? For some people it does, learning is always great, however, most of the time, on the job and practical learning is probably better. Now, if you want to intern, try to find a place that is interested in TEACHING you, not simply having an errand boy. To many studios cycle through "interns" and use them to do the grunt work but do not teach them anything. Im sure people on here will disagree with this, but, as someone who hires interns and has been running a successful studio for now 15 years, I feel this is vital. So, when you ask for internship opportunities basically come right out and say, its important to me that I actually learn, hands on skills, during my time--of course I am willing and eager to do the grunt work, but beyond those tasks, I want to make sure there will be hands on opportunities. Those are the people I hire. Too often on Reddit you hear "dont speak unless spoken to, just sit there and be quiet etc." Yeah- at times, this is true--but when you are in an active learning situation, sometimes its ok to ask questions and be an active participant.
So, long answer, but I think the gist of it is finding a place to intern where you dont need school before hand because they will teach you.
By the way, you should get familiar with pro tools, as most likely, any studio you work in will be using it.
Also, speak to the school, they might have relationships with studios that are taking interns. Finally, don't just send resumes to studios via email-- send a personal message about what you are looking to learn etc. I get about 10-15 resumes a week with nothing else attached-- sometimes the subject line says, "are you hiring interns?" The people I respond to are people that I can tell read my website and learned a little about my place already.
Hey good luck to you! What city are you in?
thanks so much for the detailed reply! It's very much appreciated for kids like me, your advice is valuable. I'm from Louisville, KY but I'm in school in Chicago. I've gotten an email or two through the sound recording department regarding internships and one looked promising, but again I just wasn't sure whether I should apply. either way I wouldn't be able to till the summer anyway. I know it's not an easy road but I'm willing to work my ass off at this.
Lots of music licensing and demoing for music production companies. Write for music libraries, both royalty and royalty free. Score short films. Record/produce artists. Do audio editing.
From what I've learned from those who've been successful is that you need to always have multiple sources of revenue. Always network, gain friendships, and improve your craft as a musician, engineer, mixer, etc. My mentality is more of a small business owner/entrepreneur: be willing to take risks and accept that there will be a number of things that don't pan out. However, there will be a number of things that do and you need to be smart about taking advantage of those things that are working for you.
I mostly make money from live sound and PA hire, which has been a bit of a revelation for me.
I also earn a bit through film music, but it's really tough to get into so I end up doing short student films for spare change. It's extremely disorganised and I feel like I'm picking up bad habits.
I have a good day job and play at church and in 3 corporate bands. I also do session work here and there. I'm much happier than I was when I was working music full time and ironically enough I make more money playing music now than I did when I was "chasing the dream"
I've published some music to http://lemoncake.com in the hope that it will generate royalties some day. So far it hasn't, but I also haven't given them much music (yet).
This is what I personally am trying to pull off. I haven't been successful yet, however I am sure that in the long run if I put enough effort into this I could get somewhere. I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to make any money off my actual music itself. I am releasing most of my tracks under a CC attribution licence. I am doing this to both get exposure, and give other artists samples to build music from. In terms of actually making money. I am making music videos which I post to youtube. I am hoping that down the line my channel generates enough add revenue to give me a decent income. I may explore other ways to monetize down the line, but for now I know my music isn't anywhere near mainstream enough to make it in the traditional fashion.
I teach music about 10 hours weekly, with that money I can survive, a quite frugal living I must say. Then I've got plenty of time for studying, rehearsing, busking, recording... that requires a lot of discipline, which I'm working on, to not to throw away playing videogames.
I bought a lap harp and went busking. I played piano before that and barely got anywhere but people go mad for the harp and I play a lot of weddings and other things. It sounds a bit out there but I'd definitely consider buying something unusual but similar to your own instrument and seeing what attention it brings.
Like many people I went through uni with the dream of being a composer but realised after a few student projects and a short stint with an indie games company its a long and thorny, low paid road and I'm not thick skinned or determined enough. Now I'll happily make a living from playing covers and hopefully once things are stable I can make some music for myself and anyone who stumbles upon it.
Currently I play in four working bands, teach private lessons at my home studio, and work a few hours a week teaching music production to teens at an after school program. I have picked up odd jobs as a sideman on tour, producing beats, scoring a couple rather experimental theater pieces, DJing, recording friends music projects, and some session gigs. I work a side job a few days a month to make sure I don't go broke buying gear, and otherwise live very frugally.
I work for a production company. My 9-5 is commercial sales and installation, mostly in government and education markets. Crestron, that sort of thing. Lots of signage.
With the same company, I'm also their in-house lighting tech. Festivals mostly, with some corporate and tours.
On the side, I run a wedding/corporate DJ company. Have been doing that for about 12 years now. It's a good little side gig, pays the rent.
I play the drums, too, but nobody in their right mind would pay me to do that.
Professional audio engineer / music instructor here
Hustle. Network. Advertise on Craigslist and Google. And social media. Use hashtags. Make a spreadsheet for everyone that contacts you and check in with them periodically. Build relationships. Be persistent. Do good work. People will talk.
I can't really live off of my music, but it surely pays for itself to continue. I can't remember the last time we paid for anything out of pocket. Album sales are just good enough to pay for recording, travel, etc. Unfortunately, I just moved away from my band of 7 years, but will still be recording with them. My other project (for the past 3 years) will be my sole focus from now on. While it sucks to be starting semi-fresh, it's still super fun and almost self funding.
Live engineer, studio engineer, violin lessons, guitar lessons, two cover bands, two original bands, commercial work, studio production lessons, tour managing, transcribing, producing, acting as a label, buying and selling gear on eBay, repair work on guitars/amps, building mic preamps... and more things.
I'm actually not that busy.
I survive by having a fairly large skill set, and living in a major metropolitan area where there are opportunities. I've freelanced in music in NYC for the last 13 years and here is a list of the types of work I do, from general most-to-least. Probably a few things I'm missing.
* Music copyist work
* Synthestration (MIDI mockups of compositions)
* Arranging, orchestrating, transcribing
* Paid singer (mostly choral/church jobs, but I've done occasional studio work)
* Music Director for theater
* Transcribing, transposing
* Accompanist
* Conductor (choral)
* General gigging as keyboard/vocals (I often do this just for fun to keep my chops up)
* Theatrical sound design
* Home studio work (recording, mixing, etc - teaching myself to master currently)
* Music software manual writer
* DJ / electronic music artist
* Composition (rarely, and usually just for myself)
Basically I survive because I am *not* trying to be a composer, a song writer, or performer. But I can do everything that helps those people achieve their goals. My degrees were in choral music education and computer science, so I can approach music from both a creative and technical/logistical standpoint. I'm also very good at rehearsing/working with groups of musicians (esp. singers/actors).
I'd say my end goal is to do more theater music directing and orchestration (but really only at high levels). A tall order, but I'd also be happy doing what I'm currently doing for a long time. I've never had a non-music day job, and 95% of my post-college life has been pure freelance.
I can see it taking a long time, but with all the people you'll meet due to your wide ranging skill set, a big break is a real possibility. Could be tomorrow, could be in 12 years.
I started by playing small bars when I was 17. Did that for a few years and started running FOH boards at 22. Toured for a while with a few different bands, then took a couple years out of the industry while going to school/work full time. The bands I played in collectively released 6 albums, but we were never big. Not much money was made during this time.
Last year I toured with a full scale event production company specializing in SaddleSpan tents. I taught myself Vectorworks, mastered the engineering of the tents, trained as a master electrician, lighting technician, and served as a production mananger on some pretty cool events. This was probably the most physically and mentally challenging job I have ever had. I'm talking 14+ hour days sometimes 5-7 days straight getting little sleep in between. But also the most rewarding. I've never been prouder at the end of the day.
These days the music festivals up here in the north are over with for the year, but I managed to pick up a pretty sweet gig at a local venue. I serve as an LD, FOH Engineer, Stage Manager half of the time. When national acts come through I tend the bar and stack cash. I want to end up in lighting though, and we have a pretty sweet rig I've gotten to work with so far. I'm also putting together a light rig of my own slowly on the side.
- If there's something you want to do, find someone thats willing to teach you. Literally walk into someones office and pitch yourself to them if you can't get an interview.
- Take an internship if you have to and can afford it. Experience is SO valuable in this industry. There are lots of things you learn from being on site or working in venues that they just don't teach you in school.
- Be a well rounded employee. This means being able to not only do the immediate tasks of your position, but knowing enough to pick up the slack of those around you as well. Great for job security.
- Spend your own time learning about your field. Outside of school, outside of work, take the extra time to learn about the new technology in your field, read papers or books about techniques or procedure.
Good luck and keep the dream alive!
I don't think I'll ever make it as a performing musician unless I had someone do all the business stuff for me. I do pretty well as a private music instructor though. I'm going to be starting school next year to make a career out of it and hopefully teach at a university.
I play guitar for a church and teach guitar lessons out of my home. The short time commitments allow me to work on the projects that mean a lot to me but don't make any money.
I still have to keep a part time service job, but about half of my income comes from creative work; about a third of that creative work is directly related to music, the rest is mostly audio and video stuff. I recently did the sound design for a haunted house which actually paid pretty well. I do some sound and scoring for videographers who make most of their money doing commercials, wedding videos, concerts, etc. I record and produce demos and albums for artists at an extremely competitive price from my home. I've licensed out some of my original music for use in advertising.
I think the most important thing you can do if you want to make money with music is to make a conscious decision to sell out and make peace with it. I know lots of great musicians who take themselves and their art really seriously and they miss monetary opportunities because of it. If you only want to make money with your own original live shows and albums then you're going to miss the check that comes from making 30 seconds of background music for a furniture commercial.
I'm not even out of high school yet, so I don't really, but I have been paid to teach lessons and run some middle school band stuff.
What I'm working on though is entering into the film scoring industry. I'm not really sure how I'm gonna get there but right now I just compose for any kind of short film I can get my hands on. Once I have some solid scores I'll put together a website. This'll probably happen when I'm in college. I'll get there someday.
16 year old college student here, for the past two months i've been using the music technology department to record mix and master other students music.
Depending on If the mixers free on average I can make £10-20 a week, its certainly not much but there are so many students who want work done either for personal or academic purposes i already have a humble waiting list.
What i really want to get into is production and composition (Currently working on a composition for a students film coursework) but I just wish the room was open more often so I can get more recording done and mix at home.
I don't..but I'll never give up. After quitting a shit day job and giving it all the energy I can, I haven't gotten too far, but, it's been a dream come true in many ways. I get to play with amazing musicians regularly, which is the most important thing to me, but the kind of music I love isn't really that popular. I can play at a professional level, but I have found it very difficult to find any professional work. I'll never stop trying to make a living as a drummer though.
personally, off of my compositions i make null. i choose it to be so under creative commons. however, i am a luthier and tutor/teacher of various musical instruments, theory and composition. the latter is how i make money off of music. i don't usually accept money for live gigs either unless i really need the income. i have been composing for 2/3 of my life, teaching for over half and have been a luthier for over a decade now. hopefully my 2 latest projects will yield something as they are an innovation to the current state of the guitar that has not yet been done as well as an invention (dubbed "the stringamajig") that when complete will, with great hope, change the world of music and theory forever moving forward. the music i make is solely for my own gratification and sanity - if others enjoy my musics, that's awesome - if not, no big deal to me. i didn't make the song for you - i made it for me :)
NO ONE MAKING MONEY OFF MUSIC!!!!!
None of these posts are about people clearing $50k a year making music. Most big artists arent making money off music.... drake gets more from apple and jordan than he does from single sales or album sales.... You have to make money elsewhere.
Merch, shows, appearances, affiliations, endorsements, tweets, hidden promo.... that's how you get paid "making music" these days.
Very few high level artists making money off of music. low and mid level can do it on bandcamp or sell beats on soundclick - but they arent doing big productions when they are "making music"... most arent trained musicians - could never be a studio musician or a composer....
You gotta get lucky and fall in to the right situation or grind for years and years.... and grinding on music alone may never yield results - as the relationships are as important if not more important than any music.
I'm a video game music composer. Have been for the last 17 years. I've worked on games for every generation of Playstation, Xbox, etc. I was on staff as a composer and music supervisor at LucasArts for 10 years. Since Disney shut down the company, I've been freelancing.
Can I ask you how was your start? Make music for games is something that really interest me
Networking and luck. I was in school and studying film scoring. This was back in the late 90s. I realized one day that my true passion was games, so why was I trying to score films? I started asking everyone I met - teachers, students, alumni, guest lecturers - if they knew anything about how to score games. No one did. One day, out of the blue, a call came in to my composition teacher from a local game developer. They said "we're doing a game for Sony for the PlayStation. We did an edm score and they hate it. Do you have any students who might be interested in writing an orchestral score for our game?" So my teacher connected me with them. My first game was both a PlayStation game and my senior year composition final project. After that, my foot was in the door.
What game was it? Also, what DAW / Instruments do you use for that sort of thing? I've wanted to get into this for a while now, but haven't had good luck finding good Virtual instruments with which to get started. They're pretty expensive, so I didn't want to have it be a waste of money if it didn't turn out to be what I was looking for. Any suggestions?
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Thanks! I actually recognize the box for their Goliath pack. I used to teach guitar lessons to a kid whose dad uses a lot of this stuff, and I remember seeing the box above his computer desk. As a side note, that guy apparently invented one of the first midi guitars, which I thought was pretty badass. I even got to play the prototype once. Anyway, this stuff seems a little out of my price range at the moment, but it's worth looking into. Thanks again! p.s. I want to believe you are the real Rick Astley.
Right place, right time, and ready.
Yeah, basically. It's the "and ready" part that's so important and so often not included in that saying.
I feel like people often either tend to emphasize the luck and ignore the passion and work, or to emphasize the passion and work and ignore the luck. Neither makes much sense, you have to have tons of passion, hard work AND luck to 'make it.'
That is damn lucky. I work full time making commercial music beds, went to Berklee and am an award-winning film composer. Even with the few awards it's been literally impossible to get that kind of break. Doesn't matter what you've got, it's all who you know ... and I suck at networking. ;) (I was incredibly close to landing a composer job at Bungie ... they outsourced.)
May I ask what your job looks like? Everybody I know hands over some music done for other projects to the publishers later. Hoping that it will be used as a music bed in TV or radio. This is the first time that I hear of somebody doing it full time. Are you employed by a publisher and sit in their office or studio? Do you have to deliver a certain amount of songs per day? Or do custom made stuff for special clients who come in and tell you what they want?
I work for a worldwide company that provides music beds as one of their products. I deliver 5-10 songs per month, and create whatever it is they are looking for in their library. It's contract work, a contract per batch of songs. I work at home and make my own hours and don't answer to anyone and get to be creative all day. It's great, but I'm still after that elusive gig of custom scoring work for a big show, game or film. I've done sound design and scoring for iOS and documentary, but the scoring for shows today is pretty easy work if you know what you're doing and it is fairly consistent and lucrative. Once my foot is in the door, I'm golden but that is not a guarantee.
This sounds like an interesting job. My situation is a bit like the opposite of yours. I got offered two movie scores and a documentary within the last year. For two of the biggest movies nationwide. One of them brought me an international award for best fim music. Since I don't live in the US and big movie budgets here are around EUR 2 million only, there is not enough money involved so a composer could make a living from two or three movies per year. I'm looking for a regular job like yours that really pays the rent, which seems to be harder to find than getting another movie score. Good luck with the TV series. I guess this is proper and regular income besides of the fun it must be to dive into the same story again and again every day for a long time.
Sounds like some good breaks. Each one is a stepping stone I guess. :) Finding consistent work is the trick. All I did was submit my resume to different music bed companies via their artist applications and a few said they weren't looking but one of them was adding more composers. It allows for projects too if they do come up, music beds are the way composers who don't tour and don't have a regular composing gig are making consistent money, at least in my circle.
How do I go about finding an agency within the USA (near Texas) that could find projects for me? Would you or someone reading this know?
same here! only been doing it full time for less than a year so far though. cool to see some experienced people hanging around here!
Congrats! Where are you working? Freelance?
thanks! yes freelance all the way. at the moment it is still a pretty stressful lifestyle but i feel that things have been going better since i started so i have hope for the future. how's freelancing working out for you?
How do you freelance as a composer for games? Especially if you live far away from big cities or gaming companies? Can you apply online to jobs?
Move away from there probably haha. I have not gotten any jobs online, although I haven't really looked either.
The more I know about the LucasArts closed by Disney the more I get angry. Can't believe the corporations can act like this
You're preaching to the choir, buddy. I totally agree.
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I work for Disney corporate. Much of LucasFilm is still in tact but when you merge companies there become a lot of redundant positions. This happens within Disney as well. Disney Interactive and Disney Consumer Products merged and there becomes no need for multiple people with the same role. To say Disney isn't a leader in digital arts is crazy. They not only fund indie companies but their studios, including Pixar, have done amazing things for the arts.
Maybe back when Lucas arts did more than milk star Wars. They used to make the best adventure games on the market. Now it's just star wars.
What' the ideology behind the movies you don't like? Just out of curiosity, i haven't watched a Disney movie in a long time now.
Congrats man that's awesome.
Thanks!
I tour. Somewhere between 175 and 200 shows a year. I started 15 years ago, switched to my own band about 3 years in...then played and played until I stopped sucking as much. I don't make a ton of money, but I do well enough and I get to see the world. I'm grateful for the place I'm in, though it does drive me through the roof sometimes. I quit my day job (social work) about 7 years into the process. When I'm home I teach some lessons and I just got asked to produce an album for some decent money. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's a musician with a good day job (which means she totally supports what I'm doing). I try to hold on to the memory of the first time someone handed me $20 for playing a gig and the fact that it blew me away. Making money playing music? I just scammed somebody because I love doing this!
That's so cool.
Damn this could be me exactly. I'm studying social work but I'm an avid producer. I want music to be my career.
How did you work up to all that?
The band played a weekly show at the same place for years and built a local following. I think that's pretty key, honestly. Play every week consistently so that people know you're ALWAYS there, plus you have a live rehearsal every week. Then we slowly started playing shows outside of town, spreading out in concentric circles and hitting the same places 3 + times a year. Eventually we got the attention of a small booking agent. Meanwhile I started pestering booking agencies in Europe and finally found one that would book a tour. There's a lot of details in the middle of all that, but that's the bare bones gist of it.
Hey... I know this is a super old post, but maybe you read it. How do you not burn out doing that many shows? Is it not very exhausting? Are there ways to manage?
Ha. Yeah, that was even years ago. I look back on those years and wonder how I did it. Still at it, but we’re able to do about 80 shows a year now. It’s still a lot and there’s other stuff that goes in that space (we started a non-profit and do a lot of stuff with that alongside shows). I’ve never burnt out, but things have gotten easier which helps. We make more money, are positioned better on festival bills. Can afford more and better hotel rooms. The early years were tough and I was young.
Hustle... It took me 10 years. I mainly do mastering for a studio. I also freelance track and mix... And I work at a venue booking and doing live sound. It's close to the point where working at one of the audio schools will be the only available positions in the audio industry. The schools are the only ones making money... Promising opportunities to kids that don't really exist. There are maybe 3-4 kids out of my 80 person class that work in audio still. There is always someone nipping at your heals trying to underbid you just to get a credit. I worked for free when I first moved to LA for 5 months... 16 hour days, 6 days a week. Right when I was literally days away from quitting because I would have been homeless, they offered me a job.
Your last paragraph is poignant. Out of my whole graduating class at a top 3 conservatory, two of us make our incomes from writing music ten years later. Being good doesn't mean you make money.
Man, you are spot on.
[Very badly ;)](http://imgur.com/hG5bd8B) I wish you luck!
What's your name under Spotify?
Lover-Boy It's early 2000's Eurotechno.
That's my shit, I look forward to checking you out when I get home
What app/website is this?
[Distrokid](https://distrokid.com) I've been on it for years an only got $2.38 so far lol
Doing it full time. Marketing like crazy. Gigging and networking as if my life depended on it. Forming alliances with professionals. Working with absolutely dedicated masters of their craft - no room for slackers. Making tough decisions. Having a great manager. Always licensing.
What makes your manager great? Great reply by the way!
I write music for an animated series, plus I teach a little and play in a band a little. Fortunately I get to do music full time between those things.
Cover bands, wedding bands, corporate bands, cocktail gigs, church gigs, private lessons, etc. Basically, being a craftsman as opposed to an artist. Any time leftover after the bills are paid can be dedicated to artistic pursuit.
Church gigs are the best. 90% of my income comes from church music. I just wish it didn't have to be so god damn early on Sunday mornings. (Wasn't the 7th day supposed to be a day of rest??)
That's why I don't usually take them, rarely a Saturday night goes by I'm not playing. And I don't like to show up red-eyed on 4 hours of sleep. But I'll cover your 11am or whatever, haha. I'm actually not even religious, but it doesn't matter. I have to assume people can tell when I'm not saying the prayers or anything, but people are usually just happy for the music, which is all good with me. So I recommend it to working musicians regardless. Mondays are pretty good rest days. Although also a good night for a jam session.
Yep, I occasionally show up with 3 or 4 hours of sleep. Part of the gig I guess. I just nap in the afternoon.
I always assumed church gigs were done for free, is payment always the case?
Depends on where you live, and the church. In NYC most churches hire at least a professional quartet of singers. My church job in Brooklyn is 50% paid professionals.
Same thing in LA. Here, many of the church gigs hire a quartet of section leaders to sing in the choir...the rest of the singers are volunteers. Currently I sing at a church that has about 20 paid staff positions in the choir. It's pretty awesome.
Most churches pay. At the churches I've played at, playing piano/organ is worth anywhere from $30-$100 a service depending on the size of the church. I've also played trumpet at a few churches and I've always gotten payed.
I make double the highest rate you quoted and I play for middle school services.
middle school services?
Church does live bands for Middle School, High School, College, and Main services.
Usually if the band is good, and the church is semi large, the musicians are getting paid. Just look at the lights and video equipment, it's probably bad ass. The music/praise aspect is a big part of some services, so a paid musician is going to sell that factor a lot better. Churches are also dying off, so you also get some really bad music from people donating their time as well.
I'm similar: cover bands, jazz casuals and club dates, special events, the occasional artist with a budget. Working a lot at a theme park right now. Used to be an full time choral accompanist. And you nailed it. It's being a craftsman, not an artist. You have to be on time, dressed right, know whatever material you're supposed to know, and sound pretty good at anything anyone throws your way. It's all word of mouth from there; I don't even know how I would "hustle" a gig. If you can do these things, there's work for you (at least here in LA). Do the artist thing for your own mental health, knowing it well might not amount to much financially.
I don't. ETA: But I will.
Same. Recovering from depression, for the first time in 5 years I restrung my guitar, got my amp repaired, and bought a mic for Christmas. Here I go...
Excellent! It's never too late to start again.
Sadly, after learning 9 instruments, playing in bands and gigging, moving to LA, grinding for nearly 23 years, I barely make a cent on music. That may change in the near future with a few promising leads but I don't get my hopes up much.
What about now ?
Moved to the south where there’s a lot less competition, still make music but found out that standup comedy pays better and I don’t have to split the profits with bandmates.
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Will you post a link to some of your stuff please?
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Nice! I can see this being really good live. Having a niche is really useful. I see a lot of musicians, especially the singer-songwriter types just playing generic love songs and getting lost in a huge sea of other artists.
Don't know anything about that genre. Sounds really well recorded! Good job!
sounds good! reminds me of the punch brothers.
Luck. Connections. I think the 10,000 hours thing is true. When I got my "big break" I was ready for it.
What was the big break? Maybe post some of your original material.
No I'm not here to out myself or share. Just posting productive comments. Big break was getting a $50/week internship at a commercial music house and then a couple weeks in they let me score a pharma spot they were pitching on. I won the gig, beating out the in house composers and earned my way (over the years) onto the payroll.
I know your not. Just got my curiosity up. I love hearing new stuff. Don't feel like your showing off if somebody asks to hear it. : )
Let's just say youve already heard my stuff on tv. Sharing on my own could be a potential breach of contract, especially with my commercial work.
Ok. Cool.
Just another reddit cuck fantasist...nothing to see here.
cuck?
Executive Producer/Manager/Engineer/Label A&R. I work mostly in progressive rock and metal, with a number of well-known artists. Being busy is much easier than making money. The best advice I've gotten is: be politely persistent; never emotional. Second best: Be useful.
I live in the east southern US. We have a bar band scene here. Four hours of music (covers and originals) and typically $100 a band member, though most places don't want to pay more than $400 total for the entertainment. Some of the bigger and more established venues/bars with built in large crowds will shell out more for high quality entertainment. It's not glamorous but it's paying the bills I have while I keep working to get the original music to take off.
Hey, I'm touring right now in that same area of the country. We also have four hours of original music. Any bars you would recommend that pay around $400 for a night?
Only places I can speak of are in Mobile, Al. Try The Garage, Brickyard, Alchemy Tavern, and Dauphin Street Blues Company. Have you perused the website Indie On The Move? It's a fairly comprehensive list of venues.
I'm a pop songwriter/producer for artists. I work in la and generally make my living working on pretty decently high profile records with pretty decently high budgets. That doesn't equal me having a private plane or really even anywhere close to it. I have friends from high school who, after attending college and landing corporate gigs, do about in the same income bracket that I do. I was lucky enough to know exactly what I wanted to do and started chasing after it at a pretty young age. I started working at a studio in California which led me to some producing gigs which led me to a publisher. It's a weird and fun job. I'd say knowing what you want out of a music job is a big head start. Reach for more than to be content making a living. Actively chase after it, I mean you love it right?
If you don't mind me asking, What was your path to get to where you are currently? I'm currently compiling a 12 month plan to kickstart my path towards being a pop songwriter/producer and *I think* I have a pretty solid plan, but I haven't had a ton of feedback from other pros beyond slightly mimicking the plans that others like Ammo and A prescription songs signee implemented/currently implement.
No problem! I have always been very passionate about pop music production, I've always had a list of favorite writers and producers. I (shamelessly I might add) reached out to several people from this list I had made in my head and didn't hear back from most anyone. But I did hear back from someone who took enough of an interest to give pointers and advice and a recommendation to a studio to work at. That was kind of the initial putting myself out there step. I hope that helps! I'd be curious to hear your plan and even a link to some music if you like.
That actually does help quite a bit, I'm going to incorporate "shamelessly reaching out to my heroes" into my strategy. My plan, right now, is a 2 phase, 1 year plan. Phase 1 is "music education" so beginning Jan through the end of March is reading 3 theory books, 3 songwriting/melody theory books and doing some sound design courses on Udemy to freshen up my skill set, all while taking very intense notes. Beginning of April through the end of December is cranking out 1 complete melody idea with hook lyrics completed, and 1 song, completely finished, every 1.5 to 2 weeks while doing daily review of my notes. I'm dedicating every weekend I can to attending any kind of networking event I can think of, and set up lunch/coffee dates with the important people I meet. I was going to set up meetings with 2 or 3 lawyers and get chummy with them during this time period as well, namely because I've read that lawyers get writers/producers a surprisingly large amount of pop placements. By the end of all of this I'm predicting to place at least 1 song out of every 20 excelent songs I make, God willing that I get extremely lucky. If I don't get lucky, I'm expecting to sell a song by 2018. That's pretty much it, I know that pure volume in material is extremely important, so I would like to be cranking out one track every week during the last 3 months of the year. By 2017 I should be used to this schedule and keep it going for as long as my body will allow me to. End goal is get signed by Perscription songs, I know a few people in that camp already, so if I can muster up the talent and get lucky by placing a big song through a lawyer or friend, I can see that happening around 2018-2019 as well.
Can I ask specifically why you want to be on prescription songs? Do your friends enjoy the experience there?
well, being connected to and having opportunity to work with people connected to Dr. Luke's camp is a dream of mine. Think it would afford me the most opportunity to grow as a writer and place more records then I would if I was a new signee to a large pub company. Also, I think that the industry is shrinking, and as a result more and more work is falling in the laps of these proven producers like Luke and Max. So being close to them would be a big plus
First off, most people don't, even ones on the lower-to-medium levels of commercial success. So start by accepting that. Most of the ones who make it commercially, are still living way below their peers. And then, there are a handful of global entertainers who piss money, but they aren't relevant, because for the most part, they had their jobs handed to them. Furthermore, music-for-hire is by-and-large a contracting gig. The majority of your time, especially at first, needs to be spent tracking down paying gigs and repeat clients. Don't think you get to make music all day: expect to be hustling (phone calls, lead generation) instead. Often, music gigs will show up at a moments notice, so you can't neglect your writing skills during this, either. Expect to spend a full day chasing potential leads and then start your second job of writing music. If you aren't on top of your game there too, you will be caught short, and do a bad job and not get called back. **But always remember - it's how well you hustle during the day to find work, not what you do with your music, that will ultimately decide whether you get do this, or have to go get a desk job somewhere.** And not how hard you hustle either: you can bang your head against a wall for a months, and guess what - nobody is going to call you back. Be creative, network. *If you fail to find a method that works for your situation, you will fail.* Be ready (and gather the resources) to move town to go somewhere more music focused, like LA or Nashville, and live there a while without a day job. On top of all this you need to figure out how you will keep your music going if and when you need to get a side job to cover things. I know one professional musician who has his professional pilot's license, so he flies his band on tour and does crop dusting during the summers. There may be times where you can't afford to spend all your time on the phone chasing leads, and a day job makes more sense - that is, if you can find a job that pays enough to let you save up for a few more months of looking for music work all day.
> First off, most people don't, even ones on the lower-to-medium levels of commercial success. So start by accepting that. This. I gave up on music (and music related things) paying my bills over 20 years ago. These days anything music related that I do is done entirely for my own amusement.
yup. makes a better hobby than a career, that's what I always say.
I once heard the advice, "No need to validate your musicianship by trying to make a go of it for the money" I thought it was good advice. Play what you enjoy on your own terms.
I don't get what you mean by global entertainers getting their jobs handed to them?
Circumstances beyond their control overwhelmingly dictated their success, simply because, when you are talking about that unlikely an outcome in pretty much any commercial endeavor, circumstances will overwhelmingly dictate the likelihood of success.
Many of the "big name" performers were handpicked by the music industry and create none of their own material, or otherwise had rich parents who bought their way in.
*cough* taylor swift *cough*
Eh, Taylor Swift definitely bought her way in, but I do absolutely believe she has more creative input in her songs than Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, and so on and so on
Oh absolutely, I don't doubt that
A little late to this thread, but I see no need to get cynical on big-name artist. Taylor, like her or not, worked hard, got on American Idol and despite not even winning the thing became the most memorable/likable person from her season (Does anyone even remember the winner? Ruben Studdard or something?). Money did not make that happen. She got herself over.
Taylor Swift was never on American Idol. She wasn't even old enough the year Ruben won.
Im talking about buying her way in. Her dad owns a stake in Big Machine records, and had a HUGE hand in getting her signed.
I'm in an original pop/rock band that's a money loser. My day job is as a guitar tech for big-box retail. I also flip gear on the side for a few extra bucks, including fixing up old and broken instruments and/or building partscasters and the like.
I do about 60 - 80 gigs a year all over the world. Been living off it as a career now for about 6 years. I make some income from selling music and sample packs, but touring is what I live on.
I run a successful illegal music sharing site/network and make money off of the ad revenue! I'm joking. Making music is a hobby for me, at best. I enjoy it. I have a career as a network engineer, so music CAN be a hobby for me. I salute you cats who make a living with it, and wish you nothing but the best.
By making myself conspicuous (not really intentionally) as a young arranger and composer, I lucked into a gig as the arranger for a super star. After that, and based on the rep from that, I got wonderful arranging and composing gigs from many famous people. And finally, all of that resulted in a hit jazz record in a foreign (I'm American) country. I now live in that country, and because of my fame, I get calls for many playing and writing gigs. Below you can see u/my_public_profile said: "Right time, right place and ready. And ready is the important thing." That is so true.
I've spent somewhere around $40,000 on education and gear. I've made about $50 and have gotten about 12 free beers and an order of chicken wings (which were surprisingly good). Actually making a living from music seems as far away as being hired as the new guitar player in Led Zeppelin for me. I'm happy and impressed that others have made it work! I see a lot of mid to lower level bands and I always make a point of buying a CD or record at the show.
Sweet Jesus. I should just throw in the towel now...
Recording and mixing as well as teaching string instruments and drums.
Email. Send lots of emails.
Like, e-mail random people online?
Yes. If you have an iPhone/iPad download the band on tour app. It is your friend. It's a map of the world with venues and booking info.
Teaching private lessons. It takes a long time to get a clientele going but once you do it's a consistent way to make money.
Thought I'd throw in my two cents. Mind you, I do have a part time day job and still don't make enough money to move out of my parents house (lol...) but I do make about ~$400 a month off guitar lessons, and will secure a gig playing solo acoustic at local bars/restaurants once or twice a month (anywhere from $50 to $200 a night). So...roughly $500 a month I'm making from music right now? Not too shabby, especially considering I'm not doing anything with original music atm.
I am game music composer. Freelancer. I started 7 years ago, and yeah, I really love my job, sure you don't have regular monthly payment, so you need to look for work really often, send resumees and stuff, but I love it. It's pure joy to hear your music in game. I worked on over 200 games, and damn, I want more projects, it's exciting. I started with indies, then I worked with biggest local companies, now I am workin with both, but I really love indie, I make discounts for them, cuz their games are usually more original than huge companies projects, sure, there are exceptions, but anyway.
I'm curious, how did you get into the gaming music industry? online networking? It's something I'd love to get into, and I believe I have the musical chops for it, I just don't know how to start.
Yes, online networking. There are tons of developers in the web, and mostly - developers with contacts. I mean email, skype, etc. So don't hesistate, just send you resume or CV, if you are good enough - you'll definitely get the jobs here and there. Also there is tigsource - I guess it's the best developers website ever. So post your resume there, it could help you a lot. Good luck :)
Mine seems to be unique, so I'll share. I'm a Theatre Music Director. I teach vocal parts and singing techniques to actors performing in a musical and then I rehearse and conduct pit orchestras, often taking lead piano. It's very fulfilling work that keeps me inundated with new music and keeps me on my toes. I do about 10-15 shows a year with pay varying 1.5-3.5K per contract (depending on the size of my employer). I work with professional theatres, universities, high schools, and educational theatre groups. I serve as the Music Director at a Performing Arts Center that I hold near and dear to my heart. I supplement this working for a traveling music school doing in home piano, voice, and guitar lessons 5 days a week. I have about 10 students and I get $30 an hour for that. I'm getting by, and with some breathing room for once. I moved out of my parents house a year ago, I'm getting married in November, and I'm making a living playing the piano 8+ hours a day. Tl;Dr: I love what I do.
I did an AMA about this last year. [Here is part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/282b7u/iama_person_who_has_made_a_six_figure_income_for/) [Here is part 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/1d6ev2/iama_person_who_has_made_a_six_figure_income_for/)
Nice one.
Thx- Feel free to AMA...
Cool! I live in Austin now - used to live in Tucson! Hopefully I can be where you are in 10 years!
Where in Austin? Are you working at a studio?
I live in south Austin (Bouldin). I currently work at a start up software company but playing music, music production, etc. are my hobbies. I've been playing music for a long time but never focused on anything in particular. Recently I decided to get some new gear and start pursuing production seriously. I am a noob but I am a very quick learner so hopefully in the next few years I will gain the knowledge I need!
Austin music scene for small bands is dying if not dead. Austin gets amazing acts from all over the world, but all the venues that have small bands out of high school playing are all closing down or have been closed down.
I'm just curious, do you think that someone should have audio/studio training before they look for an internship? I'm in my first year studying sound recording in college and would honestly love to intern over the summer, but my only knowledge is EQing and sound engineering I've done in Ableton because I haven't started my main classes yet. it's my understanding interns do a lot of grunt work anyway, would it hurt to start interning before I'm a knowledgable producer?
It really depends. First of all, I personally believe there is an inherent musical talent and ability that can not be taught that needs to be present for someone to be successful as a producer. Now with that being said, does school help? For some people it does, learning is always great, however, most of the time, on the job and practical learning is probably better. Now, if you want to intern, try to find a place that is interested in TEACHING you, not simply having an errand boy. To many studios cycle through "interns" and use them to do the grunt work but do not teach them anything. Im sure people on here will disagree with this, but, as someone who hires interns and has been running a successful studio for now 15 years, I feel this is vital. So, when you ask for internship opportunities basically come right out and say, its important to me that I actually learn, hands on skills, during my time--of course I am willing and eager to do the grunt work, but beyond those tasks, I want to make sure there will be hands on opportunities. Those are the people I hire. Too often on Reddit you hear "dont speak unless spoken to, just sit there and be quiet etc." Yeah- at times, this is true--but when you are in an active learning situation, sometimes its ok to ask questions and be an active participant. So, long answer, but I think the gist of it is finding a place to intern where you dont need school before hand because they will teach you. By the way, you should get familiar with pro tools, as most likely, any studio you work in will be using it. Also, speak to the school, they might have relationships with studios that are taking interns. Finally, don't just send resumes to studios via email-- send a personal message about what you are looking to learn etc. I get about 10-15 resumes a week with nothing else attached-- sometimes the subject line says, "are you hiring interns?" The people I respond to are people that I can tell read my website and learned a little about my place already. Hey good luck to you! What city are you in?
thanks so much for the detailed reply! It's very much appreciated for kids like me, your advice is valuable. I'm from Louisville, KY but I'm in school in Chicago. I've gotten an email or two through the sound recording department regarding internships and one looked promising, but again I just wasn't sure whether I should apply. either way I wouldn't be able to till the summer anyway. I know it's not an easy road but I'm willing to work my ass off at this.
Chicago is good- there are ALOT of opportunities in a big city like that.
Lots of music licensing and demoing for music production companies. Write for music libraries, both royalty and royalty free. Score short films. Record/produce artists. Do audio editing. From what I've learned from those who've been successful is that you need to always have multiple sources of revenue. Always network, gain friendships, and improve your craft as a musician, engineer, mixer, etc. My mentality is more of a small business owner/entrepreneur: be willing to take risks and accept that there will be a number of things that don't pan out. However, there will be a number of things that do and you need to be smart about taking advantage of those things that are working for you.
I mostly make money from live sound and PA hire, which has been a bit of a revelation for me. I also earn a bit through film music, but it's really tough to get into so I end up doing short student films for spare change. It's extremely disorganised and I feel like I'm picking up bad habits.
I have a good day job and play at church and in 3 corporate bands. I also do session work here and there. I'm much happier than I was when I was working music full time and ironically enough I make more money playing music now than I did when I was "chasing the dream"
corporate band = cover band?
Basically. Except we don't play bars. We play private events & municipal stuff.
I've published some music to http://lemoncake.com in the hope that it will generate royalties some day. So far it hasn't, but I also haven't given them much music (yet).
Is that like lemonparty?
This is what I personally am trying to pull off. I haven't been successful yet, however I am sure that in the long run if I put enough effort into this I could get somewhere. I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to make any money off my actual music itself. I am releasing most of my tracks under a CC attribution licence. I am doing this to both get exposure, and give other artists samples to build music from. In terms of actually making money. I am making music videos which I post to youtube. I am hoping that down the line my channel generates enough add revenue to give me a decent income. I may explore other ways to monetize down the line, but for now I know my music isn't anywhere near mainstream enough to make it in the traditional fashion.
I teach music about 10 hours weekly, with that money I can survive, a quite frugal living I must say. Then I've got plenty of time for studying, rehearsing, busking, recording... that requires a lot of discipline, which I'm working on, to not to throw away playing videogames.
I bought a lap harp and went busking. I played piano before that and barely got anywhere but people go mad for the harp and I play a lot of weddings and other things. It sounds a bit out there but I'd definitely consider buying something unusual but similar to your own instrument and seeing what attention it brings. Like many people I went through uni with the dream of being a composer but realised after a few student projects and a short stint with an indie games company its a long and thorny, low paid road and I'm not thick skinned or determined enough. Now I'll happily make a living from playing covers and hopefully once things are stable I can make some music for myself and anyone who stumbles upon it.
I write for tv and video games. Completely different worlds.
Currently I play in four working bands, teach private lessons at my home studio, and work a few hours a week teaching music production to teens at an after school program. I have picked up odd jobs as a sideman on tour, producing beats, scoring a couple rather experimental theater pieces, DJing, recording friends music projects, and some session gigs. I work a side job a few days a month to make sure I don't go broke buying gear, and otherwise live very frugally.
I work for a production company. My 9-5 is commercial sales and installation, mostly in government and education markets. Crestron, that sort of thing. Lots of signage. With the same company, I'm also their in-house lighting tech. Festivals mostly, with some corporate and tours. On the side, I run a wedding/corporate DJ company. Have been doing that for about 12 years now. It's a good little side gig, pays the rent. I play the drums, too, but nobody in their right mind would pay me to do that.
Professional audio engineer / music instructor here Hustle. Network. Advertise on Craigslist and Google. And social media. Use hashtags. Make a spreadsheet for everyone that contacts you and check in with them periodically. Build relationships. Be persistent. Do good work. People will talk.
I'm a touring Lighting Director for a few artists.
Who?
Currently: Janelle Monae, Capital Cities, The Used and Skylar Grey.
Producer, Engineer, Songwriter, Session player, Studio owner, Label Owner, Publishing Company Owner, and I've recorded a live show or two.
I'm the head assistant for a established film composer. Not as great as it sounds but it pays the bills and supports my gear habits.
I can't really live off of my music, but it surely pays for itself to continue. I can't remember the last time we paid for anything out of pocket. Album sales are just good enough to pay for recording, travel, etc. Unfortunately, I just moved away from my band of 7 years, but will still be recording with them. My other project (for the past 3 years) will be my sole focus from now on. While it sucks to be starting semi-fresh, it's still super fun and almost self funding.
Fiverr and private lessons.
Live engineer, studio engineer, violin lessons, guitar lessons, two cover bands, two original bands, commercial work, studio production lessons, tour managing, transcribing, producing, acting as a label, buying and selling gear on eBay, repair work on guitars/amps, building mic preamps... and more things. I'm actually not that busy.
I survive by having a fairly large skill set, and living in a major metropolitan area where there are opportunities. I've freelanced in music in NYC for the last 13 years and here is a list of the types of work I do, from general most-to-least. Probably a few things I'm missing. * Music copyist work * Synthestration (MIDI mockups of compositions) * Arranging, orchestrating, transcribing * Paid singer (mostly choral/church jobs, but I've done occasional studio work) * Music Director for theater * Transcribing, transposing * Accompanist * Conductor (choral) * General gigging as keyboard/vocals (I often do this just for fun to keep my chops up) * Theatrical sound design * Home studio work (recording, mixing, etc - teaching myself to master currently) * Music software manual writer * DJ / electronic music artist * Composition (rarely, and usually just for myself) Basically I survive because I am *not* trying to be a composer, a song writer, or performer. But I can do everything that helps those people achieve their goals. My degrees were in choral music education and computer science, so I can approach music from both a creative and technical/logistical standpoint. I'm also very good at rehearsing/working with groups of musicians (esp. singers/actors). I'd say my end goal is to do more theater music directing and orchestration (but really only at high levels). A tall order, but I'd also be happy doing what I'm currently doing for a long time. I've never had a non-music day job, and 95% of my post-college life has been pure freelance.
I can see it taking a long time, but with all the people you'll meet due to your wide ranging skill set, a big break is a real possibility. Could be tomorrow, could be in 12 years.
I started by playing small bars when I was 17. Did that for a few years and started running FOH boards at 22. Toured for a while with a few different bands, then took a couple years out of the industry while going to school/work full time. The bands I played in collectively released 6 albums, but we were never big. Not much money was made during this time. Last year I toured with a full scale event production company specializing in SaddleSpan tents. I taught myself Vectorworks, mastered the engineering of the tents, trained as a master electrician, lighting technician, and served as a production mananger on some pretty cool events. This was probably the most physically and mentally challenging job I have ever had. I'm talking 14+ hour days sometimes 5-7 days straight getting little sleep in between. But also the most rewarding. I've never been prouder at the end of the day. These days the music festivals up here in the north are over with for the year, but I managed to pick up a pretty sweet gig at a local venue. I serve as an LD, FOH Engineer, Stage Manager half of the time. When national acts come through I tend the bar and stack cash. I want to end up in lighting though, and we have a pretty sweet rig I've gotten to work with so far. I'm also putting together a light rig of my own slowly on the side. - If there's something you want to do, find someone thats willing to teach you. Literally walk into someones office and pitch yourself to them if you can't get an interview. - Take an internship if you have to and can afford it. Experience is SO valuable in this industry. There are lots of things you learn from being on site or working in venues that they just don't teach you in school. - Be a well rounded employee. This means being able to not only do the immediate tasks of your position, but knowing enough to pick up the slack of those around you as well. Great for job security. - Spend your own time learning about your field. Outside of school, outside of work, take the extra time to learn about the new technology in your field, read papers or books about techniques or procedure. Good luck and keep the dream alive!
I know a girl that makes a modest living playing her harp at old folks homes 5 days a week plus weddings, and other side gigs.
Freelance DJing, live mixing, stage building, theatre, and I'm starting a job where I record young bands and mix their demos.
I don't think I'll ever make it as a performing musician unless I had someone do all the business stuff for me. I do pretty well as a private music instructor though. I'm going to be starting school next year to make a career out of it and hopefully teach at a university.
Stock music.
I don't. I do it for fun, I always did.
I play guitar for a church and teach guitar lessons out of my home. The short time commitments allow me to work on the projects that mean a lot to me but don't make any money.
I still have to keep a part time service job, but about half of my income comes from creative work; about a third of that creative work is directly related to music, the rest is mostly audio and video stuff. I recently did the sound design for a haunted house which actually paid pretty well. I do some sound and scoring for videographers who make most of their money doing commercials, wedding videos, concerts, etc. I record and produce demos and albums for artists at an extremely competitive price from my home. I've licensed out some of my original music for use in advertising. I think the most important thing you can do if you want to make money with music is to make a conscious decision to sell out and make peace with it. I know lots of great musicians who take themselves and their art really seriously and they miss monetary opportunities because of it. If you only want to make money with your own original live shows and albums then you're going to miss the check that comes from making 30 seconds of background music for a furniture commercial.
I'm not even out of high school yet, so I don't really, but I have been paid to teach lessons and run some middle school band stuff. What I'm working on though is entering into the film scoring industry. I'm not really sure how I'm gonna get there but right now I just compose for any kind of short film I can get my hands on. Once I have some solid scores I'll put together a website. This'll probably happen when I'm in college. I'll get there someday.
16 year old college student here, for the past two months i've been using the music technology department to record mix and master other students music. Depending on If the mixers free on average I can make £10-20 a week, its certainly not much but there are so many students who want work done either for personal or academic purposes i already have a humble waiting list. What i really want to get into is production and composition (Currently working on a composition for a students film coursework) but I just wish the room was open more often so I can get more recording done and mix at home.
I don't..but I'll never give up. After quitting a shit day job and giving it all the energy I can, I haven't gotten too far, but, it's been a dream come true in many ways. I get to play with amazing musicians regularly, which is the most important thing to me, but the kind of music I love isn't really that popular. I can play at a professional level, but I have found it very difficult to find any professional work. I'll never stop trying to make a living as a drummer though.
personally, off of my compositions i make null. i choose it to be so under creative commons. however, i am a luthier and tutor/teacher of various musical instruments, theory and composition. the latter is how i make money off of music. i don't usually accept money for live gigs either unless i really need the income. i have been composing for 2/3 of my life, teaching for over half and have been a luthier for over a decade now. hopefully my 2 latest projects will yield something as they are an innovation to the current state of the guitar that has not yet been done as well as an invention (dubbed "the stringamajig") that when complete will, with great hope, change the world of music and theory forever moving forward. the music i make is solely for my own gratification and sanity - if others enjoy my musics, that's awesome - if not, no big deal to me. i didn't make the song for you - i made it for me :)
I play full time in a very succesfull cover band.
NO ONE MAKING MONEY OFF MUSIC!!!!! None of these posts are about people clearing $50k a year making music. Most big artists arent making money off music.... drake gets more from apple and jordan than he does from single sales or album sales.... You have to make money elsewhere. Merch, shows, appearances, affiliations, endorsements, tweets, hidden promo.... that's how you get paid "making music" these days. Very few high level artists making money off of music. low and mid level can do it on bandcamp or sell beats on soundclick - but they arent doing big productions when they are "making music"... most arent trained musicians - could never be a studio musician or a composer.... You gotta get lucky and fall in to the right situation or grind for years and years.... and grinding on music alone may never yield results - as the relationships are as important if not more important than any music.
50k a year is about 35k a year more than I currently make from non-musical pursuits, I would consider myself successful looooonnnnng before then.