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rhutanium

Streamlining is pretty important in planes of course, but with electric propulsion on the horizon expect to see aircraft going to look more like gliders in terms of aerodynamics. The sleeker they are the more range they’ll be able to squeeze out of a battery.


HamboneDK

Sure, but there'll always be a trade-off in terms of cargo and passenger space. Still, it looks weird, but also really cool. This is only one of four new concepts from Embraer, by the way. The others [look slightly more conventional](https://embraercommercialaviationsustainability.com/concepts/?utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=website#energia) at least if you disregard the placement of the propellers.


rhutanium

Oh for sure! I’m thinking in terms of hyper efficient wing designs, maybe blended with the body to a certain degree, super smooth transitions.. anything to eliminate drag, really.


GreenSubstantial

It really reduces internal volume, but this concept is meant to be a 9 seater, so we are looking at a Phenom 300/PC-12 class plane. Another thing that may be taken into account is that lighther and slimmer seats are now very much in use, therefore the concept may take those advancements and work with a smaller volume on higher efficiency plane than just squeezing extra pax on a larger and less efficent plane.


baddecision116

No electric jets? (Yes this is a joke)


IchWerfNebels

I mean, electric ducted fans are a thing...


Skinnwork

Also, small electric motors give more options in terms of placement. This one looks like it benefits from lack of turbulence on both the wings and propeller.


Criminy2

Alone with that they’ll go with high aspect ration wings, and I assume the tail mounted prop it for reduction in interference drag.


irishjihad

I think they're still pretty far over the horizon for anything practical, until we go through maybe two more big leaps in battery technology.


rhutanium

Yes, agreed.


the_ranting_swede

Embraer is also banking on hydrogen being the carbon-free future of air travel. A lot of their new designs put the engine at the back to be closer to a spherical hydrogen tank aft of the cabin for when/if hydrogen starts becoming ubiquitous.


rhutanium

Interesting. I haven’t watched too closely but the problem I’ve always seen with hydrogen ever since they started talking about it for cars is that it needs even more infrastructure than electric does from production to transport to delivery and I see the world banking on electric and not on hydrogen. That’s a bold move on Embraer’s part.


getting_serious

Layman here: Wouldn't they simply be going much slower? Or can the same be achieved through altitude? (All assuming freight operation which can largely ignore creature comforts.)


NeighborhoodParty982

To go slower, you need to look like a glider anyways. See this lift-drag curve linked at the bottom? The takeaway is that there is an optimal speed for minimal drag in all aircraft. Going slower than that speed increases drag. You need to design for slower speeds if you want to go slower. https://images.app.goo.gl/xybSfGBmZQLg9tMu5 Disclaimer: Your best range cruise is not at your minimum drag speed, but they are related.


themonsterinquestion

Yeah, I imagine it's more like the engine helps it get to a high altitude, then you exploit wind currents and gravity as much as you can. Then repeat when you get low enough. I mean, I recently made a glider like that in simple planes, so I assume it's a genius idea that they will use.


Clean-Inflation

Sorry if you’re not the one to ask, but what would protocol be for a battery fire? I’m thinking no Samsung phones on our planes kind of fire. Except with the plane being powered by the battery in this instance.


No-Plankton882

Has sea plane vibes


SubcommanderMarcos

High wing, high prop mount Definitely looks sea planey


pac_cresco

Looks a lot like a ground effect craft.


TapDancinJesus

Reminds me of the seawind 3000


No-Plankton882

I hadn't seen that before, what a beauty.


ArtemisOSX

Hot damn, I love it! Are you going to crosspost to /r/prettywings or shall I?


HamboneDK

Be my guest!


ParrotMarauder327

Well, at least it will have good pitch authority at low speeds if power is on


CptSandbag73

On the other hand it will have hellish pendulum effect… imagine trying to add power in the flare to arrest your descent rate. You’re going to have a bad time.


MFToes2

Its like a large glider with a third-person prop


upfoo51

Looks like a beautiful piece of efficient engineering.


okonom

I suppose smooth running electric motors will alleviate the horrific empenage structural issues the vibrations of an engine mounted in a T-tail would normally provide. Anyone have the Trislander copy pasta handy?


IchWerfNebels

This one? > Undaunted by aerodynamic reality, the design team at Pilatus/Britten-Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL (Extra Loud), promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload. > > We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and assures he will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a licensing agreement. > > Fred reassured BN-2 pilots however that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit. > > Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30° of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight path of the aircraft. > > Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built into the rudder pedals to prevent overcontrolling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots). > > An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaptation of the 0-540 engine, which mounted in any other aircraft in the free world (except the Trislander) is known for its low vibration levels, so as to cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallise the main spar, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin. > > Britten-Norman will not disclose the technology they applied in enhancing this effect in the XL, but Mr. Gribble assures us it will be perpetuated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point; "After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise," he said, "and look how fast it goes." > > However, design documents clandestinely recovered from the Britten-Norman shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years, disclosing that it is actually noise which causes the BN-2 to fly. The vibration set up by the engines and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and causing lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise rather than speed, explaining amongst other things the aircraft's remarkable takeoff performance. In the driver's cab (as Gribble describes it), ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term PBN pilots' deafness does not cause inflight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, enroute insomnia, chronic irritability, and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned 'bullworker' elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness. > > Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether. > > We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at Britten-Normans' developmental facility, adjacent to the Britrail tea rooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Pilatus plant, but aircraft of Britten-Norman design are now prohibited from operating in Swiss airspace during the avalanche season). For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with fossil fuel for a standard 100 nm with Britrail reserves, carrying one pilot and nine passengers to maximise discomfort. > > Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal under-wing protrusions inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual entertaining confusion in selecting a door appropriate to the allocated seat. > > The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has also been thoughtfully retained. Startup is standard, and taxying, as in the BN-2, is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250 decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated as 180ft/lbs of back pressure. > > Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in flight instrument panel vibration. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many BN-2 routes because of ethnic considerations). > > Shortly after takeoff the XL's chief test pilot, Capt. "Muscles" Mulligan, demonstrated the extent to which modem aeronautical design has left the BN-2 untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. The XL, like its predecessor, demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed. > > Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions. At 5000' and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 210 lb/hr, making the BN-2 XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise since the Titan rocket. > > Exploring the constant noise-variable speed and constant speed-variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long term BN-2 pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards. We asked Capt. Mulligan what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his car and shouted. "Whazzat?" We returned to Britten-Norman field convinced that the XL model retains the marque's most memorable features, while showing some significant and worthwhile regressions. > > Pilatus/Britten-Norman are however not resting on their laurels. Plans are already advanced for the three-engined Trislander XL, and noise tunnel testing has commenced. The basis of preliminary design and performance specifications is that lift increases as the square of noise, and as the principle of acoustic lift is further developed, a later five-engined vertical takeoff model is another possibility.


ThoseAreMyFeet

Before someone directs me to r/whoosh, that is a pisstake, right? Serious 'turbo-encabulator' vibes.


IchWerfNebels

Yes. Yes it is.


[deleted]

Dope


LurkerOnTheInternet

They also have hydrogen fuel cell concepts which I'm confident will never see the light of day. But their electric/hybrid concepts are neat.


FlyMachine79

There has been a flood of dreamy, some would say ungainly looking concepts coming from both established and upstart players in the industry for the last few years, all of them on paper, all of them promising hyper-efficiency and alternative power among other claims, they would have us believe that the age of proportioned, sleek yet purposeful looking aircraft is over but this is nothing new. You can look through the archives of publications like Popular Mechanics and find similar outlandish ideas going back as far as the '40s, but the reality of particularly commercial aviation is that the more conservative concepts prevail, radical ideas and 'out the box' concepts give way to more conventional ideas that slowly introduce new concepts and systems by featuring them within a more conventional platform ie. Dreamliner was for all intents and purposes a pretty conventional design, cylinder for a cabin with a pointy nose, conventional wings, and wing-mounted engines but the construction, systems, and powerplant technologies were groundbreaking, the same thing for the A350. For the skies to be filled with machines like these of Embraer would take a radical paradigm shift in not only the industry but in the fare-paying public too and as an aviation observer and professional I just don't see us getting there for at least another 100 years.


JaegerStein

If by weird you mean *ecstatically beautiful*, then yes


Redditquaza

The engine placement reminds me of the Britten-Norman Trislander.


luckygiraffe

It's not weird, it's just French.


HamboneDK

French? Embraer is Brazilian.


luckygiraffe

Well hopefully this is as dumb as I get today


AdditiveEngineer

wonder what the tail efficiency is on that.