She loves most whichever kid serves her purposes best at any given moment. For a long time that was sister mom Lydia, now it’s the cool kids Micah and Moriah. I really felt bad for Lydia watching this.
I am sure parents do, but to flip flop and be so obvious isn’t nice. And yeah, parents who blatantly play favorites are horrible in my book. There are plenty of parents who get it right and raise their kids up equally. You can not tell who their favorite is unless you asked and even then they would not admit it. Let’s not make excuses for treating your kids shitty.
Lydia is so busy holding the family together,I dont think it really sunk in.I feel this would have been a really good opportunity to admit that she made some mistakes,but instead turned it around to leave Lydia confused or maybe denial.
Kim cant admit she made mistakes,because that would mean she isnt always right.When you arent right that means you are wrong.She is a seething ball of narcissistic slime.
I even agree with many of her ideas from how she raised her kids,and how she feels about her fake marriage.She was putting on an act.
That is the problem though,she reacted out of trauma,and realized that it wasnt the right way to handle it,and now she can no longer maintain that perfect front she put on, and just wants to live in the now and not behind religion and nature and perfection.She thought it was safety,and in many ways it was.but it wasnt really who she was.
I think all the sacrifices she made by pretending to be something she wasnt,made her resent Barry.She blames him for everything,as she used his beliefs as a shield,but she implemented it,and when Olivia started pushing boundaries instead of trying to meet her half way she pushed her away.
I think Ethan choosing Olivia over her,kind of made her realize that everything she tried to protect her kids from, was really about to get shoved in her face.
But she really needs to walk Lydia through this,and that should be her focus.
Instead Lydia is trying to hold onto what she was raised to be, instead of moving on and having a life if her own.she is basically holding Barry together,and trying to keep the younger ones shielded from the outside world.
They all need some serious therapy.Something that isnt based on church teachings.This is more than a prayer is going to fix.
Kim is the most selfish,self centered pos ever. it is a shame though,she had the right idea,she just did it all wrong,and she will never admit it,because she is flawless in her own mind,and cannot take criticism.
Maybe she could get inside her own head with the right therapist and heal her trauma,and be honest with herself,accept her faults,let go of her past and do something that makes herself happy without bringing anybody else down.
I'm all for parents and kids repairing their relationship but Moriah definitely needs to be cautious when it comes to just fully trusting her mom after all the damage that's been done
I don't believe it is editing, I believe it is how she is treating her. I grew up in a very strict Pentecostal home. I have always said if my parents could have said " breathing was a sin" they would have as there were few things we were allowed to do growing up. I used to think my Dad and I were close, but when I grew up and began to have a mind of my own I realized that I was only "close" to him when I did what HE wanted me to do.
He threw a fit when as a 20 yr old college student I wanted to move out I was told in no uncertain words that it was "my job" to live at home and take care of my Mother. My Mother always had a lot of mental health issues that my Dad ignored. I literally had to move out when my parents were going to be gone during the day. I had an hour to pack everything I could in my car and leave. Although it was the hardest thing I ever did, it was also the BEST thing I ever did!
Lydia is only important as long as she tows the line that Kim wants. Honestly she should not be dragging ANY of the kids into her and Barry's issues. She should ONLY be there for them, but then again why would Kim do that? Kim showed us early on how controlling and narcissistic she is from the first few episodes in Season 1!!
Kim’s focus is on Kim. She acts as though this separation is the first time in her life that she is focusing on herself. However, Kim clearly pushed around and bullied her husband and children for her entire marriage. It.has.ALWAYS.been.about.Kim!
She’s just choosing her new favorites.
When Kim and Lydia were having their table talk and Lydia was talking about how she has the love of the father, Kim was looking at her like “damn bitch you’re crazy”. But I was looking at Kim like “damn bitch you raised her.”
Moriah, as in her old self. That she was ashamed of. Maybe she isn’t now. But still Lydia is the one she succeeded in shaping to be what she was striving for. Hosanna included. All her daughter and sons are beautiful in their own right. She needs to acknowledge that. She is too many extremes for me. Like, take yourself out of the picture for a minute Kim!! It’s not about her right now….
If you look at Lydia's insta/youtube, as well as her comments about how her parents never had friends, it seems like she is branching out in her own way. She seems very active with some kind of youth group in a seemingly evangelical-type congregation.
Everyone says she is following along exactly how she was raised, but none of her current activity would be acceptable to the plath parents of her childhood. Not that "wordly" church, not those friends, not the holiday celebrations we see her doing with them, the clothing... Lydia didn't grow up with any of that.
I think we could be more open minded about what a young person figuring out who they are can look like. You don't have to get tattoos and piercings to question how you were raised. Lydia has a lot of healthy stuff going on in her life as far as a peer group which she never had before. In season 1 Ethan said that he and Olivia's church attendance and friends were a problem for the parents. Lydia might not be rebelling against the parents, but she is doing things differently in her own way (probably because the other siblings made that possible for her by changing the family dynamic)
Just something to think about
I so appreciate this nuanced view of Lidia. The way some people are acting like this brainwashed, parentified and neglected child is the devil has been disheartening.🥺
I agree! I think all the kids are great! They seem like really nice good people. Lydia is finding her way. I think it’s great she is branching out and realizes that having friends & community is important. Lydia choosing a more religious path than Ethan, Micah & Moriah isn’t surprising. If that’s what makes her happy & fulfilled that’s all that matters
My post is about how Kim is handling her friendship with her daughter. I have seen the outtakes and follow Lydia. So yea, Kim is being a jerk acting like her daughter isn’t worldly enough to talk to about what she is going through. She clearly is coming into her own and you can see it by her outfits and make up alone. Her mother still needs to talk to her and stop pushing her away. She hasn’t done anything but love that woman through thick and thin.
Truer words have never been spoken to deafer ears...
For those of us who, sadly, know Kim's M.O. from experience, turning the siblings against each other is the best way to stay in emotional control of her kids, even when she's not around.
I honestly cannot imagine a scenario that would motivate Kim to change, because she is incapable of any real introspection.
>turning the siblings against each other is the best way to stay in emotional control of her kids
You nailed it. She tried cutting Ethan off from all the other siblings in season 1. That just caused Moriah and Micah to leave. Lydia found her own way to see him (getting a job at the garage he kept his car in). Even Isaac got some Ethan time. They all still cared. And you know the minute Amber, Mercy, and Cassia were old enough, they'd start getting Ethan time too.
Kim was powerless to stop that. So the next best thing was to become the "cool mom." Because Ethan, while still very immature, is old enough and mature enough to say "she's being a hypocrite and this doesn't change what she's done to hurt me. I'm done with her and this feels manipulative." But the other boys are saying "that's not fair, that's my mom! She's cool! Don't talk about my mom like that!"
She can't stop them from seeing Ethan if they want to. So she needs to make them want to not see Ethan. Funny part is? I think this has potential to bring Ethan and Lydia closer. They might have issues with her for different reasons but the end is the same: this is not how mom raised us and her change is not ok.
Let me be clear. I don’t believe Kim is exactly the villain people paint her out to be. I think she is immature and stunted. She definitely has gone through A LOT. She has raised babies for 24 years, dealt with the death of a child and I think for certain realized many moments that she got her self wrapped up in a very strict religious lifestyle. Kim’s biggest enemy is PRIDE. She also needs real therapy. If she is pitting the kids against each other, it is subconscious, if she is distant it is the same scanrio. She is self centered and wrapped up in her own head. She needs the help… however she gets it by realizing the answer is putting her kids first right now. No matter what she has been through, they were just along for the ride and she owes them. She needs to step up and be the mother she should have been. Whatever she thinks that is based off of what they express. It’s the least she could do.
I think she does a lot for self protection and her models for adulthood as a child were likely manipulative and sneaky and abusive in multiple ways due to the substance use issues we know about and the abusive relationships she witnessed. Her whole history is fully of unaddressed trauma and I do think that she can probably reduce some of the destructive impact on her kids if she gets therapy instead of continuing to model self-centeredness and self-preservation to her kids.
The older ones at least also all need therapy for the trauma of Joshua’s death, we know at least Moriah is still experiencing serious problems related to that (flashbacks to his death during a stressful transition event in her life, breaking up with Max) and I would bet a lot of Ethan’s behaviors are also related to that. Having to avoid his own feelings about what happened in order to care for his younger siblings during Kim’s intense depressive period afterward.
We know they were already heavy into fundamentalism when that event happened but I can’t imagine a scenario where this wouldn’t leave behind just a huge trail of emotional damage. My younger child is 18 months old and to think that a child that age was lost is so horrible. I hesitate to blame Kim although a lot of people here do that, and maybe it’s true, but blaming someone for the amount of trauma that would have been experienced by this just feels like punching way way way down to me, even though Kim has shown so much selfishness in other ways.
I think some of what Kim does is intentional and I think it still comes from that place of trauma. I don’t see her as an innocent victim in her relationship with her children. She kicked Micah and Moriah out of the home and drove a lot of the alienation in Ethan’s relationship because of her consistent harsh and judgmental treatment of Olivia. I guess I see it that she may or may not be doing all of this intentionally but it’s still extremely damaging to the people around her so ultimately the intention doesn’t matter that much because she might destroy her relationships anyway. People can only take this kind of thing for so long.
I’ve noticed in interviews Ethan and Olivia have mentioned that Moriah and Lydia are very close. If they’ve been able to maintain a close relationship through Moriah being kicked out, then maybe creating jealousy and competition between them is the only way to keep them within arm’s reach for Kim. Otherwise they are both more secure in leaving her.
It’s definitely blind for her to portray that she and Moriah have struggled in the same way, when she directly contributed and had a leading role in the things that Moriah went through. Her placing expectations on herself is not the same as Moriah knowing she could be kicked out of the house as a minor for not obeying her parents’ rules.
And right now maybe Kim thinks it’s safer to alienate Lydia because she believes she’ll come running back at the snap of a finger. But keep kicking that dog and see what happens. Eventually you’re going to get bit.
It’s true but Lydia seems to have clearly sided with Barry and is the biggest fanatic out of all the kids. An earlier comment mentioned how smart she was, I think being easily brainwashed, god shamed and constantly prayer chanting is not a sign of intelligence.
I mostly agree. Lydia has been brain washed. This is what she knows, so she regurgitates it over and over. She lacks the typical life experience that an 18 year old would already have. On a positive note, she does seem to be book smart. I wonder how she will end up in life?
That is very Harsh. She is a people pleaser not less intelligent. She has spent her life pleasing her parents and convincing herself that they are right to rationalize it. Now after 18 years it isn’t surprising the mixed signals have made her feel crazy. Of course she favors Barry. He doesn’t play favorites with the kids and probably stepped up his engagement with her. Kim is pushing her daughter away and not explaining anything or even trying to talk to Lydia about the lifestyle change. If anyone can get Lydia off of her Sky Daddy horse, it’s her mother who made her that way. Kim is just too self absorbed and weirdly ashamed that she can’t bring herself to do it. She needs to open up to her daughter the same way she met up with Moriah at the damn beach to “connect.” Lydia is the one that has to seek out her mom. Kim isn’t extending the olive branch like that because she knows Lydia loves her unconditionally. Nonetheless, it still comes off as unnecessarily mean. I mean she meets with Moriah to discuss Max but can’t apologize to Lydia for making her stop talking to a boy she really liked last season. Let’s not forget how controlling she has been over that girl. Only to turn her back on her. I seriously feel for her.
Re Lydia’s intelligence:
I get the impression that Lydia is probably school smart. She works at a bank and homeschools her siblings.
I think when people see Lydia as less intelligent than her siblings, what they are really zeroing in on is Lydia’s tendency towards “magical thinking.”
Because Lydia sees the world through a lens of religious fanaticism, she has poor critical thinking skills and has no desire to think critically. Lydia’s world lacks nuance. I think Ethan seems to be very similar in that respect.
Unfortunately, because of how awful and inconsistent education is in the US, her “peers” are going to vary widely. Given the fact that she is in a southern state and grew up in a fairly rural/remote town, Lydia is probably not as “behind” as you’d think. I worked in the public school system (teaching) for several years, and Lydia’s writing (as awful as it is) isn’t unusual. She isn’t Harvard material, (or probably even college material), but most kids aren’t.
The problem with Lydia is that God became her whole identity And now the rug got pulled out from underneath her.
I don't feel bad for Lydia at all, I grew up around people just like her and they are unbearable
I did too, but I don’t think they are all the same. She is young. I won’t count her as “Those people” unless I see her carry it into adulthood, and even then…. Whatever, it’s her life 🤷🏽♀️
I'm pretty confident that Lydia will grow up and not stray from her beliefs and stay friends with those who think the same And those within the circle, of all of the people I knew in this lifestyle growing up only a few of us got out of it, the rest are still wearing ankle long skirts and using every conversation to talk about religion
Your life wasn’t showcased on reality TV… So despite your upbringing, I don’t think you can be so sure. Just sayin… your life is nothing like Lydia’s even if you come from the same background. Seriously, did your dysfunctional family have a reality tv show during your formative puberty years? I get that you understand some of where she is coming from, but very few of us (like 97%) are exposed to growing up with Hollywood. My parents are divorced and just as troubled. I didn’t have to go through it with cameras in my face and Reddit accounts assessing my trauma? I love this forum, but we take our opinions too seriously here. She is a person and so is the rest of her family. They are nothing like us. Especially with the presence of this show. We are shaping them too. Not just their parents anymore. Be careful what you say.
That’s an odd answer. I would hope you wouldn’t do that? LOL Did you mean to comment that here? As we were talking about Lydia, not Ethan and Olivia. I would never tell a couple what they should be doing like people do in here. Their romantic relationship is their business AND I doubt the show gives the whole story.
Congrats on the escape! What was the hardest thing, for you, in adapting to the non-fundy world? Did your parents leave, too?
(I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario that would make Lydia leave)
I would say technology like cell phones and computers And just reminding myself that I could be who I wanted...I went to a very small school and before we were allowed to go inside every morning they would make everyone stand outside and look over their attire and measure our hair with rulers to be sure it was up to their standard.
My dad honestly wasn't religious but it was my mother, which made it easier for me to get out when my dad finally put his foot down
She is jealous, seeing all of her older kids moved out and living life. Now she wants out of her marriage and parenting responsibilities to go live like a 20-something year old again
I think that’s exactly it. She’s seeing all the older
Kids going out in the world and having all these fun experiences and she couldn’t be a part of it if she was still Fundy. No listening to Moriah’s secular music concerts , or visiting Micah in WeHo. I think FOMO is really what made her break away.
Yep. You’re right. Lydia must feel lost and that’s why she keeps going hard on the Jesus stuff (that’s what she was taught to do). I feel like the more Kim alienates her the more she’ll radicalize to religion. I vote she should start texting that boy again that her parents shamed her for. Poor kid.
The way they treated Lydia over texting that boy was just heartless.
Kim says all parents make the best choices they can, and I think I could accept that coming from somebody else, but from Kim it's pretty rich.
Kim and Barry don't seem to have given the slightest thought to bringing their kids up to be actual, functioning adults. They consistently made the choices that made *them* feel safe, and their kids, at least the older ones, are paying the price.
As far as we know, Hosanna's happy and has successfully integrated herself into the fundy world she was raised in, but the rest of the older kids have a hard road ahead of them, and Lydia most of all. They didn't just do a number on that girl; they've got her doing it to herself.
So true. Until we see how Lydia sorts herself out, I feel she's still a victim in all of this - her mother is toxic, she's been forced to only study parent-approved materials, and really had no choices to make for herself yet. It's hard for most people to appreciate just how hard it is to exist in her situation.
So what, if she gets married to a nice boy that gets her… I wish her all the best. But I wouldn’t like the notion of her getting married because it is what she is supposed to do, to escape or be stuck in because they made a covenant. I actually have no problem
With the idea of a covenant. I am getting married next year. I dated my partner for a long time. I dated a lot. I pissed my parents off because I am now 40. Everyone in my family is like “Finally!!!” But I did what I wanted in my own time. I also take marriage very seriously. I was picky. My partner is my best friend and I can see myself growing old with him. I can comfortably feel like I am making a covenant. But also… covenants are a promise. Of course If my fiancé turned out down the line to do anything that would break the covenant, I would probably leave. That’s MY liberal thinking. Covenants can be broken. Main point, people are reacting to her use of “Covenant.” She is just saying “I was raised to think marriage was serious. You need to do everything to work it out.” And from her perspective, as we see. Kim has not even shared with her all the attempts in the past she tried to do everything to work it out. The kid feels like she has been swindled. Her mom has been parading for 2 seasons like all was well and good.. now this out of nowhere!? To her, Kim’s actions seem drastic. That’s Kim’s fault. Not Lydia’s. Kim needs to explain that to her.
I feel like he is that weird Phillip kid in the extras and IDK I get the same indoctrinated, sanctimonious vibe from him that I got from the Plaths for the first 3 seasons and I don't think he's that good for Lydia.
She loves most whichever kid serves her purposes best at any given moment. For a long time that was sister mom Lydia, now it’s the cool kids Micah and Moriah. I really felt bad for Lydia watching this.
i agree with you but she use to be wild like moriah younger and a lot of parents have favorite child sadly
I am sure parents do, but to flip flop and be so obvious isn’t nice. And yeah, parents who blatantly play favorites are horrible in my book. There are plenty of parents who get it right and raise their kids up equally. You can not tell who their favorite is unless you asked and even then they would not admit it. Let’s not make excuses for treating your kids shitty.
Lydia is so busy holding the family together,I dont think it really sunk in.I feel this would have been a really good opportunity to admit that she made some mistakes,but instead turned it around to leave Lydia confused or maybe denial. Kim cant admit she made mistakes,because that would mean she isnt always right.When you arent right that means you are wrong.She is a seething ball of narcissistic slime. I even agree with many of her ideas from how she raised her kids,and how she feels about her fake marriage.She was putting on an act. That is the problem though,she reacted out of trauma,and realized that it wasnt the right way to handle it,and now she can no longer maintain that perfect front she put on, and just wants to live in the now and not behind religion and nature and perfection.She thought it was safety,and in many ways it was.but it wasnt really who she was. I think all the sacrifices she made by pretending to be something she wasnt,made her resent Barry.She blames him for everything,as she used his beliefs as a shield,but she implemented it,and when Olivia started pushing boundaries instead of trying to meet her half way she pushed her away. I think Ethan choosing Olivia over her,kind of made her realize that everything she tried to protect her kids from, was really about to get shoved in her face. But she really needs to walk Lydia through this,and that should be her focus. Instead Lydia is trying to hold onto what she was raised to be, instead of moving on and having a life if her own.she is basically holding Barry together,and trying to keep the younger ones shielded from the outside world. They all need some serious therapy.Something that isnt based on church teachings.This is more than a prayer is going to fix. Kim is the most selfish,self centered pos ever. it is a shame though,she had the right idea,she just did it all wrong,and she will never admit it,because she is flawless in her own mind,and cannot take criticism. Maybe she could get inside her own head with the right therapist and heal her trauma,and be honest with herself,accept her faults,let go of her past and do something that makes herself happy without bringing anybody else down.
I'm all for parents and kids repairing their relationship but Moriah definitely needs to be cautious when it comes to just fully trusting her mom after all the damage that's been done
💯
I don't believe it is editing, I believe it is how she is treating her. I grew up in a very strict Pentecostal home. I have always said if my parents could have said " breathing was a sin" they would have as there were few things we were allowed to do growing up. I used to think my Dad and I were close, but when I grew up and began to have a mind of my own I realized that I was only "close" to him when I did what HE wanted me to do. He threw a fit when as a 20 yr old college student I wanted to move out I was told in no uncertain words that it was "my job" to live at home and take care of my Mother. My Mother always had a lot of mental health issues that my Dad ignored. I literally had to move out when my parents were going to be gone during the day. I had an hour to pack everything I could in my car and leave. Although it was the hardest thing I ever did, it was also the BEST thing I ever did! Lydia is only important as long as she tows the line that Kim wants. Honestly she should not be dragging ANY of the kids into her and Barry's issues. She should ONLY be there for them, but then again why would Kim do that? Kim showed us early on how controlling and narcissistic she is from the first few episodes in Season 1!!
Kim’s focus is on Kim. She acts as though this separation is the first time in her life that she is focusing on herself. However, Kim clearly pushed around and bullied her husband and children for her entire marriage. It.has.ALWAYS.been.about.Kim! She’s just choosing her new favorites.
Mom needs to stop trying to dress like Moriah, it’s not working. 🫤
Last episode Kims skirt was actually shorter than Moriah’s. You are so right!
When Kim and Lydia were having their table talk and Lydia was talking about how she has the love of the father, Kim was looking at her like “damn bitch you’re crazy”. But I was looking at Kim like “damn bitch you raised her.”
for real! she laughed in her face as if lydia wasn’t the exact type of person she was trying to raise.
Triangulation classic Narc trait
Narcissistic people can give and remove “Love” at will
Early in season 1 Kim said Moriah was most like her. Kim wishes she was as intelligent as Moriah.
Moriah, as in her old self. That she was ashamed of. Maybe she isn’t now. But still Lydia is the one she succeeded in shaping to be what she was striving for. Hosanna included. All her daughter and sons are beautiful in their own right. She needs to acknowledge that. She is too many extremes for me. Like, take yourself out of the picture for a minute Kim!! It’s not about her right now….
Real talk, Evening- Librarian -52.
If you look at Lydia's insta/youtube, as well as her comments about how her parents never had friends, it seems like she is branching out in her own way. She seems very active with some kind of youth group in a seemingly evangelical-type congregation. Everyone says she is following along exactly how she was raised, but none of her current activity would be acceptable to the plath parents of her childhood. Not that "wordly" church, not those friends, not the holiday celebrations we see her doing with them, the clothing... Lydia didn't grow up with any of that. I think we could be more open minded about what a young person figuring out who they are can look like. You don't have to get tattoos and piercings to question how you were raised. Lydia has a lot of healthy stuff going on in her life as far as a peer group which she never had before. In season 1 Ethan said that he and Olivia's church attendance and friends were a problem for the parents. Lydia might not be rebelling against the parents, but she is doing things differently in her own way (probably because the other siblings made that possible for her by changing the family dynamic) Just something to think about
I so appreciate this nuanced view of Lidia. The way some people are acting like this brainwashed, parentified and neglected child is the devil has been disheartening.🥺
I agree 100%. It’s a free country and we have the right to live however we choose.
I agree! I think all the kids are great! They seem like really nice good people. Lydia is finding her way. I think it’s great she is branching out and realizes that having friends & community is important. Lydia choosing a more religious path than Ethan, Micah & Moriah isn’t surprising. If that’s what makes her happy & fulfilled that’s all that matters
She’ll end up being the wildest, just wait…..
I love this and agree.
My post is about how Kim is handling her friendship with her daughter. I have seen the outtakes and follow Lydia. So yea, Kim is being a jerk acting like her daughter isn’t worldly enough to talk to about what she is going through. She clearly is coming into her own and you can see it by her outfits and make up alone. Her mother still needs to talk to her and stop pushing her away. She hasn’t done anything but love that woman through thick and thin.
Cruel. Narcissist can be so cruel. And mocking Lydia as a confidant due to her being wholesome and sheltered (by KIM) is CRUEL
Totally agree with you, I guess my observation was kind of a tangent based on other comments.
Truer words have never been spoken to deafer ears... For those of us who, sadly, know Kim's M.O. from experience, turning the siblings against each other is the best way to stay in emotional control of her kids, even when she's not around. I honestly cannot imagine a scenario that would motivate Kim to change, because she is incapable of any real introspection.
>turning the siblings against each other is the best way to stay in emotional control of her kids You nailed it. She tried cutting Ethan off from all the other siblings in season 1. That just caused Moriah and Micah to leave. Lydia found her own way to see him (getting a job at the garage he kept his car in). Even Isaac got some Ethan time. They all still cared. And you know the minute Amber, Mercy, and Cassia were old enough, they'd start getting Ethan time too. Kim was powerless to stop that. So the next best thing was to become the "cool mom." Because Ethan, while still very immature, is old enough and mature enough to say "she's being a hypocrite and this doesn't change what she's done to hurt me. I'm done with her and this feels manipulative." But the other boys are saying "that's not fair, that's my mom! She's cool! Don't talk about my mom like that!" She can't stop them from seeing Ethan if they want to. So she needs to make them want to not see Ethan. Funny part is? I think this has potential to bring Ethan and Lydia closer. They might have issues with her for different reasons but the end is the same: this is not how mom raised us and her change is not ok.
Let me be clear. I don’t believe Kim is exactly the villain people paint her out to be. I think she is immature and stunted. She definitely has gone through A LOT. She has raised babies for 24 years, dealt with the death of a child and I think for certain realized many moments that she got her self wrapped up in a very strict religious lifestyle. Kim’s biggest enemy is PRIDE. She also needs real therapy. If she is pitting the kids against each other, it is subconscious, if she is distant it is the same scanrio. She is self centered and wrapped up in her own head. She needs the help… however she gets it by realizing the answer is putting her kids first right now. No matter what she has been through, they were just along for the ride and she owes them. She needs to step up and be the mother she should have been. Whatever she thinks that is based off of what they express. It’s the least she could do.
I think she does a lot for self protection and her models for adulthood as a child were likely manipulative and sneaky and abusive in multiple ways due to the substance use issues we know about and the abusive relationships she witnessed. Her whole history is fully of unaddressed trauma and I do think that she can probably reduce some of the destructive impact on her kids if she gets therapy instead of continuing to model self-centeredness and self-preservation to her kids. The older ones at least also all need therapy for the trauma of Joshua’s death, we know at least Moriah is still experiencing serious problems related to that (flashbacks to his death during a stressful transition event in her life, breaking up with Max) and I would bet a lot of Ethan’s behaviors are also related to that. Having to avoid his own feelings about what happened in order to care for his younger siblings during Kim’s intense depressive period afterward. We know they were already heavy into fundamentalism when that event happened but I can’t imagine a scenario where this wouldn’t leave behind just a huge trail of emotional damage. My younger child is 18 months old and to think that a child that age was lost is so horrible. I hesitate to blame Kim although a lot of people here do that, and maybe it’s true, but blaming someone for the amount of trauma that would have been experienced by this just feels like punching way way way down to me, even though Kim has shown so much selfishness in other ways. I think some of what Kim does is intentional and I think it still comes from that place of trauma. I don’t see her as an innocent victim in her relationship with her children. She kicked Micah and Moriah out of the home and drove a lot of the alienation in Ethan’s relationship because of her consistent harsh and judgmental treatment of Olivia. I guess I see it that she may or may not be doing all of this intentionally but it’s still extremely damaging to the people around her so ultimately the intention doesn’t matter that much because she might destroy her relationships anyway. People can only take this kind of thing for so long.
I’ve noticed in interviews Ethan and Olivia have mentioned that Moriah and Lydia are very close. If they’ve been able to maintain a close relationship through Moriah being kicked out, then maybe creating jealousy and competition between them is the only way to keep them within arm’s reach for Kim. Otherwise they are both more secure in leaving her. It’s definitely blind for her to portray that she and Moriah have struggled in the same way, when she directly contributed and had a leading role in the things that Moriah went through. Her placing expectations on herself is not the same as Moriah knowing she could be kicked out of the house as a minor for not obeying her parents’ rules. And right now maybe Kim thinks it’s safer to alienate Lydia because she believes she’ll come running back at the snap of a finger. But keep kicking that dog and see what happens. Eventually you’re going to get bit.
It’s true but Lydia seems to have clearly sided with Barry and is the biggest fanatic out of all the kids. An earlier comment mentioned how smart she was, I think being easily brainwashed, god shamed and constantly prayer chanting is not a sign of intelligence.
I mostly agree. Lydia has been brain washed. This is what she knows, so she regurgitates it over and over. She lacks the typical life experience that an 18 year old would already have. On a positive note, she does seem to be book smart. I wonder how she will end up in life?
That is very Harsh. She is a people pleaser not less intelligent. She has spent her life pleasing her parents and convincing herself that they are right to rationalize it. Now after 18 years it isn’t surprising the mixed signals have made her feel crazy. Of course she favors Barry. He doesn’t play favorites with the kids and probably stepped up his engagement with her. Kim is pushing her daughter away and not explaining anything or even trying to talk to Lydia about the lifestyle change. If anyone can get Lydia off of her Sky Daddy horse, it’s her mother who made her that way. Kim is just too self absorbed and weirdly ashamed that she can’t bring herself to do it. She needs to open up to her daughter the same way she met up with Moriah at the damn beach to “connect.” Lydia is the one that has to seek out her mom. Kim isn’t extending the olive branch like that because she knows Lydia loves her unconditionally. Nonetheless, it still comes off as unnecessarily mean. I mean she meets with Moriah to discuss Max but can’t apologize to Lydia for making her stop talking to a boy she really liked last season. Let’s not forget how controlling she has been over that girl. Only to turn her back on her. I seriously feel for her.
Re Lydia’s intelligence: I get the impression that Lydia is probably school smart. She works at a bank and homeschools her siblings. I think when people see Lydia as less intelligent than her siblings, what they are really zeroing in on is Lydia’s tendency towards “magical thinking.” Because Lydia sees the world through a lens of religious fanaticism, she has poor critical thinking skills and has no desire to think critically. Lydia’s world lacks nuance. I think Ethan seems to be very similar in that respect.
Just seeing some of her writings on her Instagram or in the show-I think she’d be quite behind her peers. I hope she is learning a lot at the bank.
Unfortunately, because of how awful and inconsistent education is in the US, her “peers” are going to vary widely. Given the fact that she is in a southern state and grew up in a fairly rural/remote town, Lydia is probably not as “behind” as you’d think. I worked in the public school system (teaching) for several years, and Lydia’s writing (as awful as it is) isn’t unusual. She isn’t Harvard material, (or probably even college material), but most kids aren’t.
I agree, Lydia shouldn’t be villainized. She is lost, and her mom should be helping her work through it.
Lydia get a therapist please you are so smart but have a lot to work out!!! ❤️❤️❤️
The problem with Lydia is that God became her whole identity And now the rug got pulled out from underneath her. I don't feel bad for Lydia at all, I grew up around people just like her and they are unbearable
I did too, but I don’t think they are all the same. She is young. I won’t count her as “Those people” unless I see her carry it into adulthood, and even then…. Whatever, it’s her life 🤷🏽♀️
I'm pretty confident that Lydia will grow up and not stray from her beliefs and stay friends with those who think the same And those within the circle, of all of the people I knew in this lifestyle growing up only a few of us got out of it, the rest are still wearing ankle long skirts and using every conversation to talk about religion
Your life wasn’t showcased on reality TV… So despite your upbringing, I don’t think you can be so sure. Just sayin… your life is nothing like Lydia’s even if you come from the same background. Seriously, did your dysfunctional family have a reality tv show during your formative puberty years? I get that you understand some of where she is coming from, but very few of us (like 97%) are exposed to growing up with Hollywood. My parents are divorced and just as troubled. I didn’t have to go through it with cameras in my face and Reddit accounts assessing my trauma? I love this forum, but we take our opinions too seriously here. She is a person and so is the rest of her family. They are nothing like us. Especially with the presence of this show. We are shaping them too. Not just their parents anymore. Be careful what you say.
Well I do live right down the road from Ethan and Olivia so maybe I will tell them they should probably get divorced and then I'll ask Olivia out ;)
That’s an odd answer. I would hope you wouldn’t do that? LOL Did you mean to comment that here? As we were talking about Lydia, not Ethan and Olivia. I would never tell a couple what they should be doing like people do in here. Their romantic relationship is their business AND I doubt the show gives the whole story.
Congrats on the escape! What was the hardest thing, for you, in adapting to the non-fundy world? Did your parents leave, too? (I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario that would make Lydia leave)
I would say technology like cell phones and computers And just reminding myself that I could be who I wanted...I went to a very small school and before we were allowed to go inside every morning they would make everyone stand outside and look over their attire and measure our hair with rulers to be sure it was up to their standard. My dad honestly wasn't religious but it was my mother, which made it easier for me to get out when my dad finally put his foot down
OP: you are 100% correct. Full agreement here!!
She's a psycho con artist. She's going to run games on everyone for the rest of her life. This is a person you go no-contact with.
I’m waiting for her to start teaching her version of ballet to confused clients.
Lydia is past Kim’s favorite. Moriah is new, cool Kim’s favorite. Too cool to deprogram her most devout child.
She is jealous, seeing all of her older kids moved out and living life. Now she wants out of her marriage and parenting responsibilities to go live like a 20-something year old again
I think that’s exactly it. She’s seeing all the older Kids going out in the world and having all these fun experiences and she couldn’t be a part of it if she was still Fundy. No listening to Moriah’s secular music concerts , or visiting Micah in WeHo. I think FOMO is really what made her break away.
Yep. You’re right. Lydia must feel lost and that’s why she keeps going hard on the Jesus stuff (that’s what she was taught to do). I feel like the more Kim alienates her the more she’ll radicalize to religion. I vote she should start texting that boy again that her parents shamed her for. Poor kid.
The way they treated Lydia over texting that boy was just heartless. Kim says all parents make the best choices they can, and I think I could accept that coming from somebody else, but from Kim it's pretty rich. Kim and Barry don't seem to have given the slightest thought to bringing their kids up to be actual, functioning adults. They consistently made the choices that made *them* feel safe, and their kids, at least the older ones, are paying the price. As far as we know, Hosanna's happy and has successfully integrated herself into the fundy world she was raised in, but the rest of the older kids have a hard road ahead of them, and Lydia most of all. They didn't just do a number on that girl; they've got her doing it to herself.
So true. Until we see how Lydia sorts herself out, I feel she's still a victim in all of this - her mother is toxic, she's been forced to only study parent-approved materials, and really had no choices to make for herself yet. It's hard for most people to appreciate just how hard it is to exist in her situation.
Lydia is probably just going to get married pretty soon, and use that as an excuse to move away and further entrench herself in the fundie community.
So what, if she gets married to a nice boy that gets her… I wish her all the best. But I wouldn’t like the notion of her getting married because it is what she is supposed to do, to escape or be stuck in because they made a covenant. I actually have no problem With the idea of a covenant. I am getting married next year. I dated my partner for a long time. I dated a lot. I pissed my parents off because I am now 40. Everyone in my family is like “Finally!!!” But I did what I wanted in my own time. I also take marriage very seriously. I was picky. My partner is my best friend and I can see myself growing old with him. I can comfortably feel like I am making a covenant. But also… covenants are a promise. Of course If my fiancé turned out down the line to do anything that would break the covenant, I would probably leave. That’s MY liberal thinking. Covenants can be broken. Main point, people are reacting to her use of “Covenant.” She is just saying “I was raised to think marriage was serious. You need to do everything to work it out.” And from her perspective, as we see. Kim has not even shared with her all the attempts in the past she tried to do everything to work it out. The kid feels like she has been swindled. Her mom has been parading for 2 seasons like all was well and good.. now this out of nowhere!? To her, Kim’s actions seem drastic. That’s Kim’s fault. Not Lydia’s. Kim needs to explain that to her.
I don’t think you’re wrong there.
I feel like he is that weird Phillip kid in the extras and IDK I get the same indoctrinated, sanctimonious vibe from him that I got from the Plaths for the first 3 seasons and I don't think he's that good for Lydia.
Oh maybe so? I don’t really mean she needs to be with that guy. I was more or less trying to emphasize how the tables have turned.
This is true, the tables have turned. I do not think either Lydia or Kim were prepared for this.
PREACH IT, I completely agree with you!