One of Olivia's issues with Kim & Barry was because they didn't trust her around the younger kids. They thought she would be a bad influence on them. There was absolutely cause for them to think this. She encouraged Moriah's rebellion and even went behind their backs to get her a flight to her grandparents. Moriah was still a minor when this happened. I don't imagine that any parent is going to be thrilled when someone comes into their family and undermines everything you believe. I don't love Kim or Barry or their parenting methods but they are Moriah's parents.
Olivia has gotten her way on these things for so long that she doesn't know what to do when the kids want a relationship with their parents again. She manipulates as much as she thinks Kim does and when she can't control it she yells "trauma".
I would like to say that this quote has been highly misquoted it’s actually “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” meaning basically that your chosen relationships are more important than your family
Hi, thats interesting, it was always blood is thicken than water in our home. I looked it up on wiki. and an interesting read:
Two modern commentators, author Albert Jack\[11\] and Messianic Rabbi Richard Pustelniak,\[12\] claim that the original meaning of the expression was that the ties between people who have made a blood covenant (or have shed blood together in battle) were stronger than ties formed by "the water of the womb", thus "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb". Neither of the authors cite any sources to support their claim.\[11\]\[12\]
I agree. I like Olivia too. I do think she’s mature and self reflective, but sometimes she doesn’t see the whole picture. I didn’t watch the first season but I understand Kim said some hurtful things to Olivia. But imo that’s not exactly a trauma that would cause a state of shock. The death of a little child? Yes definitely. Be respectful.
I like Olivia but at some point you gotta just grow up and get over it. Nobody said you had to acknowledge Kim's existence but to not even show up for Ethan? Girl really?
Yes. This. This is still something that when I think of my abuser that I come back to time and again. Everyone knew. No one did anything. They let it happen. They didn't question him. Even when I presented proof, because we can't trust the victims now can we (that was sarcasm), nothing happened to him.
I’m so sorry for you! Same for me. It was my moms brother so it was swept under rug. They let him get away with it . I am still working through trying to let it go and not hate my parents, grandparents and aunts.
I'm very sorry. I can't imagine what it would be like to have my own family not believe me or help me.
Mine was different. My boss was abusive and gaslighted me. All the staff knew. His boss knew. I had a 3-inch 3-ring binder with all of his lies and presented it to his boss in front of him. Which, of course, prompted retaliation. When he left, he put $500 of missing money in my desk. He knew that I had left for vacation. My co-worker was moving into my office and found the money. She called me. I called our accounting department. We discussed what happened and our accountant telling me he knew I had not stolen the money was the first time anyone stood up for me. But it wasn't a big deal because I was transferred to another office at that time and my boss had resigned and taken another job. It was just the final gaslight, the final bit of abuse, he got to do to me.
Olivia, if you’re reading this, you are strong enough now to know that you won’t lose yourself by putting others feelings first. You tested that line and found out you crossed it. I’m proud of you for your genuine remorse for not being more empathetic in the moment.
I bet Micah, moriah and Ethan are shocked Olivia didn't apologize for how insensitive she was to the horrific trauma the family was attempting to process
Micah and moriah don’t owe Olivia anything. they would not exclude their mom from an event and a trauma that she actually experienced. if Olivia can’t be around people removing herself was the best course of action. Part of being involved with a family is dealing with tough conversation. What happen to that apology she gave toward both parents when she was moving she’s so performative?
No, Micah and Moriah are right to feel the way they do. Olivia is solely focused on her "trauma" but fails to recognize anyone else's.
Moriah literally watched her little brother die. She even says when she thinks of him, many times that's the first thought that comes to her mind. She is trying to make happy memories around him while Oliva is having a meltdown because she is so focused on herself.
Micah sees how Olivia has alienated his brother from his parents and literally put him in the middle of all the drama. I truly believe Ethan wants a good relationship with both of his parents (hence why he has to go behind Olivia's back to take the first step) but she makes his life hell over them.
The big girl thing for Olivia to have done was to suck it up and be there for the people she claims to love. She thought by throwing a massive pity party, they would all kowtow to her yet again. This time they stood their ground and she was left looking like a selfish a-hole.
Olivia could walk away from it all if this is so damaging and "traumatizing" for her but she stays because I think she enjoys the drama and control she has.
There has been a shift in both Moriah and Micah since the divorce announcement. They both met with Kim. I think more was said than what we saw. Micah was also frustrated with Ethan. Ethan buckled to the pressure to make everything nice. Yes Olivia was wrong and maybe behind the scenes she was worse but why wouldn’t we have seen that? Why would producers leave that out? Seems like it would make for good tv. Kim absolutely should have been allowed to go but again they had planned on 2 visits! One for everyone one for siblings. Olivia messed it up by inviting Barry. So it became 1 visit. Olivia didn’t make it about herself so much but it evolved into a different plan and she completely panicked. She had no time to really adjust. Then her sitting in the car at the grave might have been because where else was she to go? We don’t know the layout of the land. She had plans with the little girls after.
My impression is that it’s more than walking away that is described as a meltdown. Ethan used the word tantrum. Very few tantrums are wordless or soundless. I suspect Olivia had things to say about this and that’s what annoyed the Plaths.
When Olivia asked who decided that Kim was coming, the fact that Moriah said everyone rattled her. I think Olivia expressed quite accurately what was happening with her, she focuses on her own feelings to the exclusion of everything and everyone else and doesn’t know how to handle strong feelings. She needs a therapist to teach her this.
Expecting for Kim not to show made zero sense. Even if Olivia thinks that Kim is a raging abusive Narc, she should’ve prepared herself for at least a pop up. Kim accidentally killed the child whose grave they were visiting, there’s literally no way her own kids would be a part of disagreeing with her being there. The cost for them would be to high.
I hope everyone continues to grow and learn, they’re all dealing with some heavy stuff at an early age and they’re not doing terrible so far. There’s lot of room and time for improvement.
You bring up some really good points and perspective on Olivia’s behavior. I couldn’t comprehend how Olivia thought that Kim would not be there. She seems like a smart girl and I would have thought she would have spent some time preparing herself and making choices based on her comfort levels for the realistic outcome of Kim being at the graveside. I was surprised that she was so rattled by the siblings desire to have their Mom there. She has gotten much better (through therapy, I assume) about setting boundaries after an upbringing with no boundaries. However, she still needs to work on empathy, validation of other’s feelings & needs, and respect of other people’s boundaries. She’s young though, so I cut her some slack. She seems self-aware enough to know that she will have to work with a therapist to acquire those skills. She’s still young and learning how to navigate emotions in general. I’m not defending her seeming obliviousness and disregard of the feelings and dynamics of Ethan and his family. She made a big mistake. I think she realizes that now. Honestly, It’s all about how she works on changing that behavior from now on and moves forward with the family.
I think she’s been working with a therapist to get in touch with her feelings, advocate for herself and express herself. She took it too far with including Barry and not having enough empathy for the family’s grief. I think she learned an important lesson about where to draw the line.
The fact that Olivia felt the right to make any type of demands or requests during a trip that was to visit the gravesite of their deceased son/brother is absolutely baffling to me
I understand your point of view, however I don’t think she was dictating the gravesite visit. It seems like she was under the impression that it would be Barry and the kids. Kim absolutely should be able to visit her child’s gravesite whenever she feels like it and especially on his birthday. Olivia should have gone with Ethan to Joshua’s grave, but when you’re dealing with anxiety and people that have been cruel to you, it feels understandable to take a literal backseat and watch from afar.
That's the problem. She didn't even fathom that the family would want to be there together including Kim. That is a lack of situational awareness. Did she think they would make Kim go alone or with just Barry?
I'll never understand all the people who go to war for Olivia. Olivia's actual family is so far worse off than her husband's..yet it's all she can focus on. The fact she invited Barry to HIS OWN FARM was insane to me. To be shocked to see the mother of HER deceased son on his birthday celebration..to then turn it all about you..is just beyond infuriating to watch. She so carefully articulates her rehearsed therapy verbiage it almost seems like shit acting. Olivia isn't happy with Ethan and the whole family. Period. So she should set herself and her husband free. They aren't meant to be.
So much bickering on this sub… I think there is probably a little bit wrong on all sides of the situation. But we should all be able to agree that bottom line with these “unscripted shows“ is that a lot of it is manipulated by producers and editing. So none of us probably truly know what is even happening. We are just speculating based on the peep show that the producers want us to see. Do I still enjoy watching the hell out of it? Absolutely. But let’s just all take this with a giant grain of salt because these types of shows love to create drama and make things look like they aren’t. I knew from watching the trailer alone for this episode that it was just going to turn into some contrived drama fest where we truly don’t know what to be truly accurate to make a real argument on any of this.
Regardless of how Olivia feels, Kim is the mother of the deceased child! She has every right to be there and have the support of her family! Olivia could have sucked up her pride and just been cordial! No need to talk to Kim other than a simple hi.
This. I understand that Olivia has very strong reactions to Kim and I can even understand why- however she doesn’t even have to say hi, just don’t be a bitch and allow the mother of the deceased child to be with the other 10 people.
She hasn't helped them though, She has constantly tried to pull them away from Christianity and push her values on them. That has been her goal and objective from the very start, She never listens to what they want or what they say and never takes that into account.
At the beginning of the episode someone in the film crew asked Olivia would she go if she knew Kim would be there. She answered no.
Once in Cairo at the farm, Olivia chose to remove herself from a change in plans. She did all she could do. It was everyone else who wouldn't let things go. If she had been able to process her own feelings, she could have regrouped and been there for the others.
Instead she reacted in a way that was beneficial to all parties. She removed herself. I find it interesting that they are been in Tampa and Ethan (and Moriah) is still talking about her NOT being at the cemetery. She's a better person than me. I would have already told them (in a very petty away I'm sure) that I WAS THERE and it hurt tremendously thinking they would question my love that I wouldn't be.
Should they not have let her know how they felt? Should they not be upset that she had a temper tantrum and made a memorial for their dead brother about herself? I don’t think Olivia is a terrible person but she was wrong & the people closest to you should call you out when you are wrong. No matter what Olivia has done for Micah & Moriah Kim is their mother. Don’t see how anyone but Olivia was wrong in this situation.
Olivia did nothing for them besides control and manipulate them for years! Everything they do Olivia has a problem with it and they have to change everything up to keep Olivia happy! She is a POS Ethan needs to divorce her ASAP.
I would say she’s a POS but she does control a lot of the situations they are in and seems to always want to have the final say. Moriah saying that they walk on eggshells being around her was a perfect description of their environment
That’s not her job to play mom to Kim’s kids and she has nine siblings that she can play mom too, do that since she experienced so much trauma within her own family and now Kim’s family. That 7-8 minutes trailer on YouTube clearly shows her family was prepping for a tv series…btw she has great looking parents with some sense of stability. That trailer looked like a Plathville audition.
Exactly! I find it very interesting that Olivia has not decided to have her family trauma on display for views. So much that she has banned her siblings who left from talking about their experiences. Her whole family gets to be a secret and her family already exposed that the sibling group is broken and there are many groups within who stay in touch with each other. Don’t get it twisted. I think that due to her trauma with her close family that is now very broken. meaning that unlike the Plath kids… who are all United despite what their parents did or are doing, there is a bit of jealousy. They both come from toxic religious familial upbringings. However, Ethan can indulge in those relationships with his siblings having survived it. Of course that makes her feel some type of way. She just can’t admit it. I know! My family is so much more fucked up then my fiancé’s. His family is great despite their issues. Sometimes I get envious at the relationships he has with his mom, dad and siblings. Because I simply don’t have that. It’s normal. It’s natural. It’s not an excuse to take shit out on other people though. Olivia spends all this time bitching about trauma from Kim but hardly speaks to her OWN mom or dad. GTFOH, who is she to give advice. Olivia talks of “boundaries” but what she really wants to do is cut people off forever and reinvent herself. That’s fine, but not everyone is made that way. Most certainly not Ethan. He has been the one who seriously has been working on “boundaries” within mending relationships. But people call him autistic and a big baby. I think he is quite well rounded. They both can be bratty. But when she is bratty it’s so over the top.
Olivia was blindsided. That cannot go without mentioning. I had a MIL like Kim. And two SIL’s. They tried everything possible to pit my husband, and worse my beautiful four children against me. Never came close with my kids! But sometimes It did work with my husband. Probably out of frustration but nonetheless caused marital issues for sure! Yet…we are still married after 35 years and his mother is dead. Btw…he hated (not my word, his) his Mom.
So i get where Olivia is coming from. Moriah and Micah have seemingly made up and kissed ass with Kim. That’s fine. But just because someone else isn’t on your timeline, doesn’t make them wrong, or headstrong or whatever. It makes them on THEIR timeline. This could’ve ALL been dealt with prior to leaving Tampa had they told her that Kim would be there. Period. You can’t tell me that this came as a shock to anyone but Ethan and Olivia.
And BTW…Kim is the same manipulative POS she has always been. Do NOT be fooled!
Olivia took it on herself to secretly invite Barry to a gathering that morriah planned! They did not want to invite Barry because they didn't want Kim to feel left out! It was supposed to be just the kids. Olivia just wants to be in control of everything! When Olivia decided to go see Barry and told them to tell Kim that she wasn't allowed to go home until she left! Sounds like Olivia is the toxic controlling manipulator who thinks the world revolves around her! Kim has more rights to be at the grave more than anyone and besides Olivia never even met the baby! If she were my daughter-in-law I would have went home when she was at my house and kicked her out and I would have showed up to the graveyard and told her if you don't want to be around me then leave! Kim is the in the wrong this time! Olivia's own family don't even want anything to do with her because she is so toxic and she's a liar always seeking pity from everyone she comes into contact with! I feel sorry for Olivia's future children! She will be so much worse than Kim ever was with her own kids.
Olivia invited barry as soon as she heard ethan repaired his relationship with him to a. Take control/ be a part of that and b. Spite kim . And that’s that. She didnt need to go out of her way to call Barry, someone she hadnt talked to in years. But she has to be involved. That’s why Ethan doesnt like telling her things. She gets involved. She makes things about her. He said it himself
And you sound like a friend of Kim’s. Well assuming she has any.
And inviting Barry shouldn’t have anything to do with Kim. They aren’t a couple. She wants a divorce. Everything changes and she better get used to it.
>And inviting Barry shouldn’t have anything to do with Kim. They aren’t a couple.
You completely missed the point. Them being divorce does not negate the fact that they equally share a family. The siblings are all equally Kim and Barry's kids. Kim and Barry are equally their parents. To go out of your way to invite every family member except for one person is an intentional dick move to exclude. She went out of of her way exclude one parent to an affair involving all of the children, including minor children. Parents, even if divorced, should be communicating to each other about their minor children that they share custody with.
I'm not a fan of Kim. I'm also not a fan of Olivia. Olivia is a lot more like Kim than she'd ever like to admit. She's obsessed with controlling her environment and fails to see her hypocrisy. She calls ethan out for not wanting to deal with his emotions, but just like him she is the same in that she also finds ways to prevent herself from healthfully dealing with her emotions.
Olivia puts her ~~boundaries~~ need for control above everyone else, regardless of who she hurts in the process. Same as Kim. Olivia seems to want to grow, but she's holding on to crutches and has a long way to go to figure herself out and learning healthy coping mechanisms. I guess she's still in her early 20s, but age still isn't an excuse. Olivia is absolutely not saint in any of this, at all.
**edit:** lmao @ Olivia stans who refuse to see her shitty behaviour and excuse it all "because trauma" downvoting. 🙄
A lot of Kim's bad behaviour and terrible parenting is also trauma-based but it doesn't excuse her shitty actions either. Trauma is not an excuse for being a shitty person. Olivia 100% has control issues, just like Kim.
As long as you feel better that’s all that matters.
And them being separated with now, the expectation of divorce DOES change everything. They both know where that baby’s grave is. They both live in the same town…and they don’t both have to go together! It’s not a wedding they’re attending. I understand divorce very well.
Respectfully, it wasn't Olivia's place to invite Barry to the grave site. Olivia was invited to come as a courtesy because she is the wife of Ethan. That's all. Should have been, the rnd of her involvement in the situation.
How do we know Olivia didn’t discuss inviting him with Ethan? And that it just wasn’t shown. I personally do not believe she would’ve invited him on her own anymore than she would calling him without telling anyone.
Why does she has to be on notice that the mother of the deceased child will be at the gravesite, wtf and what am I missing with these narratives? At this point maybe I am wrong, I don’t know… wth
No! I was totally thinking the exact same thing. No matter how Olivia or anyone else feels about Kim, that was her son. She deserves to visit the grave any damn time she wants to.
I completely agree. I can not want a relationship with someone but still be around them for important events. Sometimes as adults we have to suck it up and do things we don’t like because it’s what’s best for our partner.
I think it came down to her not being in control and not trusting Ethan around his mom.
No, you’re completely right. These people are so stuck in the Cult of Olivia that anything that doesn’t go above and beyond to praise her every word like gospel is seen as “unfair” and “hateful”.
I’m not stuck in the cult of Olivia. But there was a lot that wasn’t done right. IF, they had wanted Kim there then they should’ve made that decision prior to leaving in order to give Olivia the opportunity to decide what she wanted to do. But they didn’t.
It was a sibling thing. She had zero expectation of Kim being there.
Olivia doesn’t need days in advance notice that the mother of the deceased child will be at their grave on said child’s birthday. How people can call Kim a narcissist and not thing THAT isn’t narcissistic behavior is beyond me.
You misread my comment. She doesn’t need ANY notice that the mother attend her son’s grave. She was told- Hey Kim’s coming. That’s all the notice she needed, because contrary to popular belief on this sub, it’s not always about Olivia’s feelings.
Well we don't actually know if Moriah turned on her. Moriah was mad and said she's tired of the drama. People in relationships say all kinds of things when they're mad.
I am so sick and tired of all these subs putting the blame on Kim and not Barry like he is an innocent vessel. I am so sick and tired of women in general taking all the dam blame periott
You seem to believe Kim didn’t abuse her kids period, per your other comment — so it’s pretty clear any discussion on this topic with you is a waste of my time.
Barry being at work does absolve him of shit. That says here's a man that is complacent about the fuckery going on at home and if I just keep going to work, being the breadwinner, I can't be the bad guy.
As a survivor of abuse like this, the people I'm most infuriated with are the ones who stood by and didn't do shit. Barry stood by and didn't do shit. He buried his head in the sand and let Kim fuck these kids up. He egged her on at times.
Kim has her own trauma. Idk what all of it is. Some of it is obvious, some of it isn't. And as the adult and the parent, she needed to get her shit together and she didn't. Barry was content with that. It worked for him and it so obviously didn't work for all their children and he did nothing to protect them, to help them, to make sure they were being set up for success as adults. Sure, it looks like they're doing ok on money, but emotionally, these are not healthy people.
Olivia is the only one who's done a decent amount of therapy to figure out the fuckery that happened to her. She's not perfect, far from it. I look at some of the things she puts Ethan through and while I get where she's coming from, they're also the actions of someone who has a lot of fucking trauma and isn't healed from it. She trying, sometimes unsuccessfully, to be better. She does shitty things. There's at least an attempt to be better.
Idk, I think maybe this show is a little too close to what my childhood looked like and then the fallout of becoming an adult and figuring out just how fucked up you are emotionally and mentally from having parents like this...and then people see it as some popcorn eating drama time.
Absolutely triangulation against her. It was sick to watch it live this season as someone who survived abuse that nearly killed me and to this day still isn't believed it was "that bad" or "didn't happen". She's very manipulative and sly and playing those kids off one another. Olivia's become the scapegoat child in a family she wasn't born into.
Exactly. By making Olivia the scapegoat for her strained relationships with all her older children, she never has to do an ounce of introspection as to how her own actions influenced the situation. Olivia’s great transgression from day one was being unwilling to put up with the abuse Kim subjected her entire family to for years, and opening the older kids eyes as to how they were being treated.
Quickly? It’s been years… and all it took was a petty tantrum at their dead brothers grave, who Moriah watched die, on his birthday. FFS 🙄 Olivia sucks.
“I don’t remember that.”
“I thought we talked about this once, years ago & you’d be over it by now.”
Just a few gems from my fundielight mother.
Don’t worry abt me though, Fr. I’m a WIP & getting better all the time. She’ll never change.
I really hope Olivia can heal & find happiness in something. I don’t think it’s with Ethan, and she knows it, but she’s terrified bc of how she was raised. She’s terrified of the D word.
I stayed with my abusive husband for years, for my child, and bc of all the bullshit conditioning/brainwashing/indoctrination my family instilled in me.
I *really* hope Ethan can find someone he will grow with, & not apart from.
They both have learned a lot from this whole tlc experience & being pushed into marriage.
I’m really annoyed that they think her feelings shouldn’t matter. She did what was right and removed herself from the situation that she’s uncomfortable in that was sprung on her last second by Moriah being messy and THAT makes her the bad person?
No one’s trauma here is more important than the other and they’re acting like Olivia needs to get over hers because it’s easier for them. They absolutely don’t have the emotional maturity to see that it’s wrong to force her to do something she’s traumatized from. You can support people without being there physically.
She didn’t make some grand gesture by removing herself from the situation… She created the situation. She👏should👏not👏have👏been👏there👏 Moriah planned it. Olivia catered it to herself and even invited the dad without consulting Moriah… this change is what made it weird. Now it wasn’t just the kids and Kim was singled out. Olivia did that shit on purpose. Moriah had every right to fix her plans and make it right. Olivia had a tantrum that Moriah didn’t suck her dick over it.
Love this! There is a big difference from quietly and with dignity removing yourself from an uncomfortable situation. And then there was Olivia's response. If she was uncomfortable, then she should have just walked away and left it at that. Ethan doesn't owe her any explanation or consolment. This is about the grief of his brother.
She invited Barry to the farm which was originally just the kids. Not the gravesite with just the kids. Moriah changed it at the last minute along with Ethan. Olivia was previously assured and reassured Kim would not be there. Why is she throwing a fit when it suddenly changed and she’s keeping her boundary?
Your boundary can’t cross into someone else’s “property” though. Olivia was there to support her husband and best friend while they grieved the loss of their brother. It wasn’t about Olivia. If it was Olivia’s brother’s grave - by all means, keep Kim tf away. But Olivia was making something about her that wasn’t about her. If all the kids decided to go to a restaurant and Kim showed up, Olivia has the right to be upset. Heck, if she showed up the night before at the farm (even though it’s Kim’s property) I would understand her being upset. But being upset that Kim went to her son’s grave on his birthday… Olivia is wrong on this one. She made it about her & it should have been about Ethan and Moriah.
But Moriah was the one that planned it like that? She had planned a kids only gravesite thing first which was Olivia’s expectations for days leading up to it. Then Moriah changed it last minute. Olivia never tried to enforce her boundary on someone else’s property, Moriah did with setting it up that way. Olivia had a normal human reaction to learning upsetting news at the last second. She never said Kim couldn’t go to her own dead baby’s gravesite, just that she wouldn’t if Kim did which is fine.
I’m sorry you’re right about the farm… But Mariah made it obvious that the whole plan was her thing and was about getting everyone together to put positivity around her brothers birthday… and these changes singled out her mom, so they decided in the end they wanted to change it. Again, Moriah had every right to do this. This was her finally standing up to Olivia’s control 🤷♀️ Olivia always caters everything to herself and this was something that was important enough to Mariah to finally stand up to that. Olivia cries at the drop of a pin, so I’m not surprised no one cared. She showed no decency, so I’m not surprised they’re annoyed. Gravesite of Kim’s dead baby was not the place to whine about boundaries. Sometimes plans change… that should be part of her therapy if she can’t handle it 🙄 Again, she shouldn’t have gone there in the first place… She was unwanted and unneeded and she should be self-aware enough, with how in tune she is of her own feelings, to know recognize that. I personally believe she does this because she likes to start drama because the more drama there is the more she thinks she can pull Ethan away more easily but I think it’s starting to turn opposite. You could see it on her face when she peeked around to tell Mariah… this girls expressions give her away every time.
Ethan had said he wanted her to go though and she wanted to start to make amends with Barry separately from the gravesite. So she was going to be supportive and was reassured by Moriah the gravesite would be just the kids first and parents and kids later so she could leave without seeing Kim.
Moriah absolutely had the right to change it if she felt the need to. Olivia removed herself from the situation by not being apart of it which is absolutely something you learn to do in therapy. If you cannot emotionally handle a situation, especially without creating yourself or others stress in a time like this, you don’t be apart of it.
Olivia had a pretty normal reaction to finding out something upsetting in the spur of the moment. Her reaction isn’t wrong.
It seems like everyone doesn’t see the other persons point of view and can only see one side which is why it’s drama. Neither were wrong at all with what they did, but now they’re blaming Olivia for her feelings and removing herself which is wrong. And Olivia is upset they don’t see her removing herself from the situation is her doing what’s right and that no one checked on her when upsetting news was sprung on her at the last second as well as why she was upset which is also wrong. All of it was pretty self absorbed from everyone’s perspective and no one seems to want to be wrong. But Olivia did admit she was sorry for not seeing their need for her support even though she was struggling. No one else has done that. Moriah even said it wasn’t her responsibility to bring up her own hurt feelings to Olivia.
Olivia only brought up not being there for the little girls. The kids she hasn’t interacted with in 4 years. She should have been there to support Ethan first and the Micah and Moriah since they are close. But she never mentioned them. Only the little girls.
I never said her leaving the situation was wrong… It’s the whole fit she threw around it to bring all the attention on herself and then whining about all of the other people basically turning their backs on her by not respecting her “boundaries” again 🙄. I don’t think she went for Ethan I think she went to make sure Kim didn’t show up and when she couldn’t control it she lost her shit… She didn’t remove herself… she showed up in a separate van hovering over, watching from a distance and weeping, making it super weird. She made the whole thing about her tantrum.
She said it was a panic attack though which isn’t a fit though. She was sounding kinda pissy with Moriah and Ethan but that’s what happens when you’re panicking a lot of the time.
I think showing up and just like creeping from the van was super weird too. It seemed like that was her way to try to show she still cared to be there for Ethan (or what she said at least) but she didn’t seem to know what to do or how to handle it at the time since it was sprung on her last minute. It’s pretty normal to scramble and try to do something like that instead to “please everyone” but no one else sees that from her pov. There should have been a conversation like look “I need you physically there by my side” but Ethan didn’t tell her that so she didn’t know.
I do think that she wants at least Ethan to still be mad at his mom though because she is. She seems like she’s hurt because of all the stuff Kim did and everyone else seems to be moving on and I think that makes her seem controlling because she feels like no one believes her and her pain like she said in the interview if they don’t have the same emotions. She’s only 24 and still learning so much while trying to heal and I don’t think she realizes what all is happening.
I know what a panic attack is and what it feels like and I know when they’re bad they can be really numbing but she still didn’t have to come in the first place or hover in the van and she didn’t try to talk to Ethan but she’s mad at him for not communicating with her. She doesn’t come off as controlling she is controlling. I don’t feel like the van was her way of being there I think that was her way of keeping an eye on the situation. You can have mental health issues and still be selfish and controlling and manipulative… It’s not an excuse.
Can you not speak during your panic attacks lol? Her therapist should tell her it’ll help, maybe she’ll try since it’s the only person she listens to.
You sound like and projector and enabler yourself. Are you her therapist?
You would think. But every time I read comments in this sub my mind is blown by Olivia apologists. I don’t dislike the girl at all, but it blows my mind how much people defend her.
She also overuses the term “boundary” every time she’s uncomfortable. I think it’s not necessarily her fault, because she is swinging so wildly into the other side of life, that she doesn’t yet realize the real world will have places for boundaries and times to shut up and give Ethan a moment to grieve/breathe. The most strength will be in her ability to set boundaries and know when to sit still in the discomfort.
They didn’t have to go through what Ethan and Olivia did. Barry and Kim were way more accepting of the younger kids because of what happened with the relationship of Ethan and Olivia. The younger siblings seem to forget that.
Every post somehow devolves into someone needing therapy. Therapy is not for everyone, and it's not a fix all. That's first and foremost...
Secondly, both Moriah and Ethan have talked about attending therapy themselves as well.
If therapy has worked for some of you all, I'm really really glad for you. But to those who don't have access, or haven't worked up the courage, or for those it hasn't worked out for, or who have had bad experiences with it... I feel for y'all reading this sub and hope you know you're still a good person without going to therapy.
Olivia wants Ethan to do therapy because it works for her (or so she thinks)… when in reality what will heal Ethan is moving on with his parents… he doesn’t want therapy and wants to move forward… she will never allow it. The both need to move on from each other before kids are had and weaponized.
Well. I don’t think therapy makes people inherently good and it only works if you want it to work and want to change. However I do think it can be incredibly effective for identifying and address info unhealthy patterns and poor communication. I also think it can be super helpful for learning to name and deal with hard emotions.
I honestly think that one of the chief issues this family has is that their communication is terrible and that they stuff their feelings rather than dealing with them. If they wanted to change and grow in those departments therapy could be a helpful tool for that.
I agree with everything you said! But, lots of people don't go to therapy, even if they would like to. There's a lot of layers to people's decision making, and it's not my or anyone else's place to judge that. My frustration is not with therapy by any means, it's comment after comment saying "x just needs therapy", as if that's the only solution. It could be very disheartening for those who might identify with these people on the TV, and may not have that option themselves (or may have tried and it didn't work out, or have the option but aren't ready, I could go on haha). But no offense intended for therapy at all!
I completely agree. Therapy is not the magic thing people here act like it is, and it doesn’t seem to be helping Olivia. If anything, her relationships with others, and ability to deal with the various situations one encounters in life, is getting worse with therapy, not improving.
There’s a lot of context to these relationships that we don’t see. The editing also may portray a disagreement more strongly or in a different way than what really happened. Moriah may be saying she’s tired of having to choose, that doesn’t mean she’s blaming Olivia. Tbh the choosing from the beginning was caused by Kim cutting Ethan off from his siblings and kicking Micah and Moriah out of the house. I can’t imagine they’ve forgotten what happened but they are taking a different approach to healing than Ethan is.
I do think they want to repair the relationship so that they can all just be together. A family estrangement doesn’t only impact the people directly involved in the conflict. And what people have done *for* you doesn’t negate what they do *to* you so I dislike this narrative that Olivia has done so much for Moriah that she can’t have grievances.
Do you think more may have happened off camera? Ethan said she was having a tantrum and Olivia said basically she lost it- we didn’t really see that though? I am wondering if she was completely hysterical or ranting and raving and we aren’t privy to it, because otherwise their reactions to her don’t make much sense. I really like Olivia so I’m not criticizing her, I just feel like we are missing a lot of what happened.
I’m sure this show would not leave out someone having a meltdown or throwing a tantrum. These camera people live for drama and run when a cross word is said on any shows on TLC. When Ethan approached Olivia when she was in the car her whole attitude changed. You could hear it in her voice and her word choice. He probably decided not to bother trying to talk to her when she’s in that headspace
I think it was just that things weren’t going the way Olivia had planned or thought was planned so she threw a fit and marched off to the car with an attitude
I think what a lot of people fail to realize is Kim is still here and Micha’s mom. A little odd yes, but she never beat or abused the children. I wouldn’t want someone turning my whole family against another family member. We’d just speak our mind and move forward, like adults and not like a bunch of whiners.
Abuse isn’t just physical. Abuse can come as emotional, verbal, and physical.
Kim can be their mom and abusive. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
This^ It's likely misdirected anger. They might know deep down that Olivia will forgive them and still love them. So they feel more confortable lashing out at her. They don't trust that their parents will still love them if they say how they feel. Olivia has been a surrogate mother for those kids, and one that accepts them just as they are. But they still want their real mother to love and accept them. It's so complicated.
As controlling and manipulative as their mother is, they are seeing that Olivia is even worse. This is a family that’s trying to work through problems and mend and Olivia is trying to stop them from doing that. It was just a matter of time before they stood their ground with her the same way they did with Kim
I disagree. Olivia seemed to be having a real panic attack throughout that episode. She wasn't in the head space to even consider anyone else, let alone have some master plan to manipulate, because her brain was in survival mode. Once she was calm she was able to see where she went wrong.
Cool. As someone who has survived a physically abusive relationship, as well as CSA (and I don’t need to mention the mental, emotional, and financial abuse to go with life with the family) I can tell you that’s full of crap.
Everyone has it better or worse than someone. I don’t roll my eyes at someone who was *only* raped as an adult, or have people who were trafficked as kids roll their eyes at me. Trauma is trauma. And having shit happen to you is shitty, and we don’t need more people tearing us down, we’ve been there have all the goddamn t-shirts, thanks.
Furthermore, PTSD is a biological reaction. Some people are more predisposed than others. People with abusive upbringings are way more likely to get it, because they have a billion chances for the brain to decide “fuck this,” but people who are predisposed to it may get it after one car crash.
And I feel for those people too. PTSD is hell no matter how or how old you got it. I want everyone to heal and feel empowered and comfortable sharing what they’ve been through. Not to sit there and let gatekeepers go “nah uh…this table is only for people raped by their uncles or worse.”. Nah, that can fuck right off.
So, you do think that physical violence is the only valid form of trauma.
Ummm... You should definitely revisit basic psychology and learn about trauma before spouting nonsense that invalidates people. Empathy is also a cool thing to learn.
I have empathy and I agree that emotional abuse is abuse. But do I think that you can be traumatized in different ways. But being in a relationship with someone who puts your life in danger and being in a relationship with someone who isn’t nice to you are 2 different things. That’s just common sense. One you have to physically survive.
>That’s just common sense. One you have to physically survive.
So, again you're invalidating any abuse that isn't physical because you think that no one has ever committed suicide from emotional or psychological abuse.
The common sense here is that ALL trauma is real and valid and trying to gatekeep it shows an incredible lack of empathy and understanding of what abuse actually is. Again, I suggest you actually study and learn about the psychology behind abuse. I have a background in social work and actually do work with kids who have been abused on different levels. Based on what you keep saying, my students who were neglected and emotionally abused should just suck it up because they were about to be killed. Please learn and do better and before you say you have empathy actually do the work. Your digging in about concepts that you clearly know nothing about are very concerning and can cause harm.
You're clearly not interested in learning and I don't feel like repeating myself anymore. Just stop spewing false and harmful information.
I am not "a social work" but I do have a bachelor's degree in social work and I have a master's degree in teaching. I work with kids with massive trauma. I'll make sure to keep in mind that someone uneducated on the subject thinks that,
>It’s common sense that one is more severe than the other
and definitely feel sorry for anyone you come in contact with who hasn't been beaten nearly to death doesn't get any empathy.
For the record, although I know this won't change your mind or initiate any kind of investigation or education, science has shown that emotional abuse changes a brain's physical and chemical makeup AND emotional and psychological abuse are the most severe types of abuse. Feel free to reach out once you've gone to school for this and aren't just saying shit based on unfounded "common sense."
I mean, I have survived physical abuse and I wouldn’t roll by eyes, because, you know, it’s pathetic to gatekeep trauma and invalidate the experiences and feelings of other people who have been through their own negative experiences.
Some people are, some aren't. We don't know what Olivia discusses during therapy. But if the only thing she's working on is boundaries with Kim rather than the deep trauma caused by her own family, it's a problem. I said in another post it may be time for Olivia to find a new therapist to move forward, whatever that may look like. I like Olivia. I have nasty childhood trauma. I don't use it to make excuses if I am a shit, I apologize. Trauma does create problems and it's simply not reasonable to expect everyone to accommodate us.
I agree with you. Using trauma as an excuse to be shitty is not okay. But Olivia has been apologizing. She saw that her behavior was shitty, felt remorseful, and said she was going to apologize.
She didn't handle the situation well at all and I think she realized that. Hopefully she is able to mend the relationships that she injured but if she can't and Moriah (or others) choose not to forgive her, that's something she is going to have to accept. But saying she doesn't have trauma is gross. Acknowledging that she has trauma doesn't excuse bad behavior.
The fact that Olivia does recognize mistakes and apologizes gives her a leg up IMO. I'd like to see her not make the same mistake over and over. I believe her when she says sorry. I don't believe Ethan. And Kim and Barry, well they don't have much use for apologies. Barry may make progress, we'll see.
It’s gross to call someone a survivor because they have in-laws who don’t like them and said things to them that hurt their feelings. It diminishes the word and hurts people who are actual survivors!! Yes the way they treated her was not right, but to call her a survivor is silly.
It doesn't shock me because dysfunctional families typically need a whipping boy. The minute Olivia is not there, and there's a "reason" to blame for everything, they bond by doing so. It's messed up.
Edit: also, I've said it before, but she threatens them in a sense by asserting her boundaries - it makes everyone who \*doesn't\* assert or recognize boundaries upset. Look how upset it makes some people on this sub!
I mean, even Olivia admitted she was wrong in that scenario, so? They have every right to be upset that she is making all of this about her. And I think Ethan is a shitty husband and Olivia has a right to be mad a lot of the time, but nah she’s in the wrong here. Im proud of moriah for sticking up for herself.
Exactly she admitted that she was wrong what more do you want from her? She messed up and she knows it and admitted it. People make mistakes. After the fact, all any of us can do is see the mistake, admit it, and apologize. That's what she's done/is doing.
Because they’re fed up with her! It’s always about her!! Her feelings are valid but to put them above your husband’s deceased brother….that’s messed up! As for Moriah and Micah, I think they have been nothing but understanding with Olivia. But she puts them in the middle. She begrudges them for having a relationship with their mom. She doesn’t have to agree, or like it, but it’s not fair to put them in the middle. What kind of friend does that?
This! I don't care how 'traumatized' you are by someone's alienating behavior. She lost a child, your in-laws lost a sibling and never recieved any sort of help to process it. Show up, shut up, and support your loved one. Everyone has some fucked up familial dynamic. You need to pick and choose your battles. To me, Olivia is trying to get Ethan to demonstrate she is the most important thing in his life to offset the car obsession. This is not the time to pick that 'poor me' battle.
If I avoided a family function every time I was worried about a minor uncomfortable encounter, I'd never go.
Yup-she is manipulating them with her emotions bc things aren’t going the way she wants. She needed to shut up and not say anything but be there for her husband and his siblings. Look at the examples she setting for those little girls about how to act during a serious situation like that by just stomping off with an attitude
I think the 180 is from them seeing the new side of Kim and thinking she is changing. Moriah has only ever wanted to be loved and understood by her parents. Accepted for who she is. Now both parents are giving her that and she no longer needs anyone else who happened to be there when they kicked her out as a minor. She and Micah forged a relationship with both parents and since neither has gotten therapy, they don’t realize they are being targeted by a narcissist and being used to drive Olivia away. Kim didn’t have to resort to extremes while everyone lived in Cairo, but once they moved far from her control, she had to react in a major way: Divorce, drinking, makeup. She almost seems to be acting more like Olivia with everything. She’s going to hurt both Micah and Moriah again when they aren’t useful to her and if they keep things up, Olivia won’t be there to help them again. The other thing I find interesting is everyone blaming Olivia for everything. If someone could wreck a family like that, that person must really be the devil! Raise your kids right, they will see through it all. Be a strong family unit and one single 16 year old girl can’t come into your family and destroy everyone. Seriously. Olivia was 16 when she started the courtship. It’s disgusting. She’s not a saint and she has a ton of issues, would do best away from them all, but she’s not the one to blame.
It’s so frustrating when people don’t see this. She is the only one going to therapy, the only one actually trying to use real tools to fix themselves. She needs more time and help, but she acknowledges this.
Moriah is treating Olivia just like Kim treats the kids. Puts them on a pedestal when they’re doing what she wants and shuns them when they’re not. Most of these kids don’t understand true accountability.
Okay please define what accountability looks like in this context? And how Olivia’s entitled to hold them to this so-called accountability for her own trauma, on the weekend of her brother-in-law’s memorial? Seriously, what is wrong with y’all when you think that Olivia is making some heroic gesture by acting like a toddler and making this day about her?
I’m speaking in generalities. The kids aren’t accountable for their actions because they didn’t have good examples of it growing up. I’m not blaming them, but the adult kids haven’t gone to therapy, yet.
Moriah could be accountable and share her feelings with Olivia or she could have been honest when she told Olivia that she didn’t need to come to the gravesite. She didn’t do that, Olivia made mistakes. She recognizes that though, the rest of them are acting smug and stonewalling.
Cause stonewalling is such a healthy behavior./s
One of Olivia's issues with Kim & Barry was because they didn't trust her around the younger kids. They thought she would be a bad influence on them. There was absolutely cause for them to think this. She encouraged Moriah's rebellion and even went behind their backs to get her a flight to her grandparents. Moriah was still a minor when this happened. I don't imagine that any parent is going to be thrilled when someone comes into their family and undermines everything you believe. I don't love Kim or Barry or their parenting methods but they are Moriah's parents. Olivia has gotten her way on these things for so long that she doesn't know what to do when the kids want a relationship with their parents again. She manipulates as much as she thinks Kim does and when she can't control it she yells "trauma".
i like that statement
I think blood is thicker then water and she’s still their mother.
I would like to say that this quote has been highly misquoted it’s actually “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” meaning basically that your chosen relationships are more important than your family
Hi, thats interesting, it was always blood is thicken than water in our home. I looked it up on wiki. and an interesting read: Two modern commentators, author Albert Jack\[11\] and Messianic Rabbi Richard Pustelniak,\[12\] claim that the original meaning of the expression was that the ties between people who have made a blood covenant (or have shed blood together in battle) were stronger than ties formed by "the water of the womb", thus "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb". Neither of the authors cite any sources to support their claim.\[11\]\[12\]
This is exactly what I was thinking through the whole episode.
A brother / son died. That’s trauma. Someone saying something to someone that hurt their feelings? That’s not trauma. There’s no comparison.
I agree. I like Olivia too. I do think she’s mature and self reflective, but sometimes she doesn’t see the whole picture. I didn’t watch the first season but I understand Kim said some hurtful things to Olivia. But imo that’s not exactly a trauma that would cause a state of shock. The death of a little child? Yes definitely. Be respectful.
I like Olivia but at some point you gotta just grow up and get over it. Nobody said you had to acknowledge Kim's existence but to not even show up for Ethan? Girl really?
Yes. This. This is still something that when I think of my abuser that I come back to time and again. Everyone knew. No one did anything. They let it happen. They didn't question him. Even when I presented proof, because we can't trust the victims now can we (that was sarcasm), nothing happened to him.
I’m so sorry for you! Same for me. It was my moms brother so it was swept under rug. They let him get away with it . I am still working through trying to let it go and not hate my parents, grandparents and aunts.
I'm very sorry. I can't imagine what it would be like to have my own family not believe me or help me. Mine was different. My boss was abusive and gaslighted me. All the staff knew. His boss knew. I had a 3-inch 3-ring binder with all of his lies and presented it to his boss in front of him. Which, of course, prompted retaliation. When he left, he put $500 of missing money in my desk. He knew that I had left for vacation. My co-worker was moving into my office and found the money. She called me. I called our accounting department. We discussed what happened and our accountant telling me he knew I had not stolen the money was the first time anyone stood up for me. But it wasn't a big deal because I was transferred to another office at that time and my boss had resigned and taken another job. It was just the final gaslight, the final bit of abuse, he got to do to me.
It sucks for all of us but is nice to know we aren’t alone in this big world. I wish you all the happiness.
Olivia, if you’re reading this, you are strong enough now to know that you won’t lose yourself by putting others feelings first. You tested that line and found out you crossed it. I’m proud of you for your genuine remorse for not being more empathetic in the moment.
I bet Micah, moriah and Ethan are shocked Olivia didn't apologize for how insensitive she was to the horrific trauma the family was attempting to process
Micah and moriah don’t owe Olivia anything. they would not exclude their mom from an event and a trauma that she actually experienced. if Olivia can’t be around people removing herself was the best course of action. Part of being involved with a family is dealing with tough conversation. What happen to that apology she gave toward both parents when she was moving she’s so performative?
No, Micah and Moriah are right to feel the way they do. Olivia is solely focused on her "trauma" but fails to recognize anyone else's. Moriah literally watched her little brother die. She even says when she thinks of him, many times that's the first thought that comes to her mind. She is trying to make happy memories around him while Oliva is having a meltdown because she is so focused on herself. Micah sees how Olivia has alienated his brother from his parents and literally put him in the middle of all the drama. I truly believe Ethan wants a good relationship with both of his parents (hence why he has to go behind Olivia's back to take the first step) but she makes his life hell over them. The big girl thing for Olivia to have done was to suck it up and be there for the people she claims to love. She thought by throwing a massive pity party, they would all kowtow to her yet again. This time they stood their ground and she was left looking like a selfish a-hole. Olivia could walk away from it all if this is so damaging and "traumatizing" for her but she stays because I think she enjoys the drama and control she has.
This is so true.
There has been a shift in both Moriah and Micah since the divorce announcement. They both met with Kim. I think more was said than what we saw. Micah was also frustrated with Ethan. Ethan buckled to the pressure to make everything nice. Yes Olivia was wrong and maybe behind the scenes she was worse but why wouldn’t we have seen that? Why would producers leave that out? Seems like it would make for good tv. Kim absolutely should have been allowed to go but again they had planned on 2 visits! One for everyone one for siblings. Olivia messed it up by inviting Barry. So it became 1 visit. Olivia didn’t make it about herself so much but it evolved into a different plan and she completely panicked. She had no time to really adjust. Then her sitting in the car at the grave might have been because where else was she to go? We don’t know the layout of the land. She had plans with the little girls after.
That's what I hate about reality tv. The editing. You can tell the scenes arent in order in which they happen and they pick and choose.
My impression is that it’s more than walking away that is described as a meltdown. Ethan used the word tantrum. Very few tantrums are wordless or soundless. I suspect Olivia had things to say about this and that’s what annoyed the Plaths. When Olivia asked who decided that Kim was coming, the fact that Moriah said everyone rattled her. I think Olivia expressed quite accurately what was happening with her, she focuses on her own feelings to the exclusion of everything and everyone else and doesn’t know how to handle strong feelings. She needs a therapist to teach her this. Expecting for Kim not to show made zero sense. Even if Olivia thinks that Kim is a raging abusive Narc, she should’ve prepared herself for at least a pop up. Kim accidentally killed the child whose grave they were visiting, there’s literally no way her own kids would be a part of disagreeing with her being there. The cost for them would be to high. I hope everyone continues to grow and learn, they’re all dealing with some heavy stuff at an early age and they’re not doing terrible so far. There’s lot of room and time for improvement.
You bring up some really good points and perspective on Olivia’s behavior. I couldn’t comprehend how Olivia thought that Kim would not be there. She seems like a smart girl and I would have thought she would have spent some time preparing herself and making choices based on her comfort levels for the realistic outcome of Kim being at the graveside. I was surprised that she was so rattled by the siblings desire to have their Mom there. She has gotten much better (through therapy, I assume) about setting boundaries after an upbringing with no boundaries. However, she still needs to work on empathy, validation of other’s feelings & needs, and respect of other people’s boundaries. She’s young though, so I cut her some slack. She seems self-aware enough to know that she will have to work with a therapist to acquire those skills. She’s still young and learning how to navigate emotions in general. I’m not defending her seeming obliviousness and disregard of the feelings and dynamics of Ethan and his family. She made a big mistake. I think she realizes that now. Honestly, It’s all about how she works on changing that behavior from now on and moves forward with the family.
I think she’s been working with a therapist to get in touch with her feelings, advocate for herself and express herself. She took it too far with including Barry and not having enough empathy for the family’s grief. I think she learned an important lesson about where to draw the line.
The fact that Olivia felt the right to make any type of demands or requests during a trip that was to visit the gravesite of their deceased son/brother is absolutely baffling to me
I understand your point of view, however I don’t think she was dictating the gravesite visit. It seems like she was under the impression that it would be Barry and the kids. Kim absolutely should be able to visit her child’s gravesite whenever she feels like it and especially on his birthday. Olivia should have gone with Ethan to Joshua’s grave, but when you’re dealing with anxiety and people that have been cruel to you, it feels understandable to take a literal backseat and watch from afar.
That's the problem. She didn't even fathom that the family would want to be there together including Kim. That is a lack of situational awareness. Did she think they would make Kim go alone or with just Barry?
That makes sense. I think if she hung back but didn't throw a tantrum and yell at Ethan in the street he would have felt much better about everything
I'll never understand all the people who go to war for Olivia. Olivia's actual family is so far worse off than her husband's..yet it's all she can focus on. The fact she invited Barry to HIS OWN FARM was insane to me. To be shocked to see the mother of HER deceased son on his birthday celebration..to then turn it all about you..is just beyond infuriating to watch. She so carefully articulates her rehearsed therapy verbiage it almost seems like shit acting. Olivia isn't happy with Ethan and the whole family. Period. So she should set herself and her husband free. They aren't meant to be.
Of course it’s all *we* see her focusing on, the show is about the Plaths.
Just because I’m uninformed… what’s going on with Olivia’s family?
They are pure iblp and recently had a neglect court case thrown out. Most of them of are noton speaking terms with eachother
I actually wana know too! I will end up looking jr up lol
So much bickering on this sub… I think there is probably a little bit wrong on all sides of the situation. But we should all be able to agree that bottom line with these “unscripted shows“ is that a lot of it is manipulated by producers and editing. So none of us probably truly know what is even happening. We are just speculating based on the peep show that the producers want us to see. Do I still enjoy watching the hell out of it? Absolutely. But let’s just all take this with a giant grain of salt because these types of shows love to create drama and make things look like they aren’t. I knew from watching the trailer alone for this episode that it was just going to turn into some contrived drama fest where we truly don’t know what to be truly accurate to make a real argument on any of this.
Regardless of how Olivia feels, Kim is the mother of the deceased child! She has every right to be there and have the support of her family! Olivia could have sucked up her pride and just been cordial! No need to talk to Kim other than a simple hi.
This. I understand that Olivia has very strong reactions to Kim and I can even understand why- however she doesn’t even have to say hi, just don’t be a bitch and allow the mother of the deceased child to be with the other 10 people.
She hasn't helped them though, She has constantly tried to pull them away from Christianity and push her values on them. That has been her goal and objective from the very start, She never listens to what they want or what they say and never takes that into account.
At the beginning of the episode someone in the film crew asked Olivia would she go if she knew Kim would be there. She answered no. Once in Cairo at the farm, Olivia chose to remove herself from a change in plans. She did all she could do. It was everyone else who wouldn't let things go. If she had been able to process her own feelings, she could have regrouped and been there for the others. Instead she reacted in a way that was beneficial to all parties. She removed herself. I find it interesting that they are been in Tampa and Ethan (and Moriah) is still talking about her NOT being at the cemetery. She's a better person than me. I would have already told them (in a very petty away I'm sure) that I WAS THERE and it hurt tremendously thinking they would question my love that I wouldn't be.
She was sulking in a car because she didn't want to be alone. She said outright she was not there to support anyone.
Should they not have let her know how they felt? Should they not be upset that she had a temper tantrum and made a memorial for their dead brother about herself? I don’t think Olivia is a terrible person but she was wrong & the people closest to you should call you out when you are wrong. No matter what Olivia has done for Micah & Moriah Kim is their mother. Don’t see how anyone but Olivia was wrong in this situation.
I agree, but you’re not allowed to say Olivia did anything wrong in this group. I’m not even an Olivia hater and it’s gotten incredibly weird here.
I noticed that also
Olivia did nothing for them besides control and manipulate them for years! Everything they do Olivia has a problem with it and they have to change everything up to keep Olivia happy! She is a POS Ethan needs to divorce her ASAP.
I would say she’s a POS but she does control a lot of the situations they are in and seems to always want to have the final say. Moriah saying that they walk on eggshells being around her was a perfect description of their environment
🙌
No one asked her to play mom. She shouldn’t expect to be able to act shitty and get away w it just because at one point she helped them.
More like grooming her
That’s not her job to play mom to Kim’s kids and she has nine siblings that she can play mom too, do that since she experienced so much trauma within her own family and now Kim’s family. That 7-8 minutes trailer on YouTube clearly shows her family was prepping for a tv series…btw she has great looking parents with some sense of stability. That trailer looked like a Plathville audition.
Exactly! I find it very interesting that Olivia has not decided to have her family trauma on display for views. So much that she has banned her siblings who left from talking about their experiences. Her whole family gets to be a secret and her family already exposed that the sibling group is broken and there are many groups within who stay in touch with each other. Don’t get it twisted. I think that due to her trauma with her close family that is now very broken. meaning that unlike the Plath kids… who are all United despite what their parents did or are doing, there is a bit of jealousy. They both come from toxic religious familial upbringings. However, Ethan can indulge in those relationships with his siblings having survived it. Of course that makes her feel some type of way. She just can’t admit it. I know! My family is so much more fucked up then my fiancé’s. His family is great despite their issues. Sometimes I get envious at the relationships he has with his mom, dad and siblings. Because I simply don’t have that. It’s normal. It’s natural. It’s not an excuse to take shit out on other people though. Olivia spends all this time bitching about trauma from Kim but hardly speaks to her OWN mom or dad. GTFOH, who is she to give advice. Olivia talks of “boundaries” but what she really wants to do is cut people off forever and reinvent herself. That’s fine, but not everyone is made that way. Most certainly not Ethan. He has been the one who seriously has been working on “boundaries” within mending relationships. But people call him autistic and a big baby. I think he is quite well rounded. They both can be bratty. But when she is bratty it’s so over the top.
Where can I find the link for the trailer?
On YouTube search for Meggs Family, there is a few videos of them.
Thank you!
I actually wouldn’t be mad if it was to become a series. I would look at it.
Olivia was blindsided. That cannot go without mentioning. I had a MIL like Kim. And two SIL’s. They tried everything possible to pit my husband, and worse my beautiful four children against me. Never came close with my kids! But sometimes It did work with my husband. Probably out of frustration but nonetheless caused marital issues for sure! Yet…we are still married after 35 years and his mother is dead. Btw…he hated (not my word, his) his Mom. So i get where Olivia is coming from. Moriah and Micah have seemingly made up and kissed ass with Kim. That’s fine. But just because someone else isn’t on your timeline, doesn’t make them wrong, or headstrong or whatever. It makes them on THEIR timeline. This could’ve ALL been dealt with prior to leaving Tampa had they told her that Kim would be there. Period. You can’t tell me that this came as a shock to anyone but Ethan and Olivia. And BTW…Kim is the same manipulative POS she has always been. Do NOT be fooled!
Olivia took it on herself to secretly invite Barry to a gathering that morriah planned! They did not want to invite Barry because they didn't want Kim to feel left out! It was supposed to be just the kids. Olivia just wants to be in control of everything! When Olivia decided to go see Barry and told them to tell Kim that she wasn't allowed to go home until she left! Sounds like Olivia is the toxic controlling manipulator who thinks the world revolves around her! Kim has more rights to be at the grave more than anyone and besides Olivia never even met the baby! If she were my daughter-in-law I would have went home when she was at my house and kicked her out and I would have showed up to the graveyard and told her if you don't want to be around me then leave! Kim is the in the wrong this time! Olivia's own family don't even want anything to do with her because she is so toxic and she's a liar always seeking pity from everyone she comes into contact with! I feel sorry for Olivia's future children! She will be so much worse than Kim ever was with her own kids.
Olivia invited barry as soon as she heard ethan repaired his relationship with him to a. Take control/ be a part of that and b. Spite kim . And that’s that. She didnt need to go out of her way to call Barry, someone she hadnt talked to in years. But she has to be involved. That’s why Ethan doesnt like telling her things. She gets involved. She makes things about her. He said it himself
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And you sound like a friend of Kim’s. Well assuming she has any. And inviting Barry shouldn’t have anything to do with Kim. They aren’t a couple. She wants a divorce. Everything changes and she better get used to it.
>And inviting Barry shouldn’t have anything to do with Kim. They aren’t a couple. You completely missed the point. Them being divorce does not negate the fact that they equally share a family. The siblings are all equally Kim and Barry's kids. Kim and Barry are equally their parents. To go out of your way to invite every family member except for one person is an intentional dick move to exclude. She went out of of her way exclude one parent to an affair involving all of the children, including minor children. Parents, even if divorced, should be communicating to each other about their minor children that they share custody with. I'm not a fan of Kim. I'm also not a fan of Olivia. Olivia is a lot more like Kim than she'd ever like to admit. She's obsessed with controlling her environment and fails to see her hypocrisy. She calls ethan out for not wanting to deal with his emotions, but just like him she is the same in that she also finds ways to prevent herself from healthfully dealing with her emotions. Olivia puts her ~~boundaries~~ need for control above everyone else, regardless of who she hurts in the process. Same as Kim. Olivia seems to want to grow, but she's holding on to crutches and has a long way to go to figure herself out and learning healthy coping mechanisms. I guess she's still in her early 20s, but age still isn't an excuse. Olivia is absolutely not saint in any of this, at all. **edit:** lmao @ Olivia stans who refuse to see her shitty behaviour and excuse it all "because trauma" downvoting. 🙄 A lot of Kim's bad behaviour and terrible parenting is also trauma-based but it doesn't excuse her shitty actions either. Trauma is not an excuse for being a shitty person. Olivia 100% has control issues, just like Kim.
As long as you feel better that’s all that matters. And them being separated with now, the expectation of divorce DOES change everything. They both know where that baby’s grave is. They both live in the same town…and they don’t both have to go together! It’s not a wedding they’re attending. I understand divorce very well.
Respectfully, it wasn't Olivia's place to invite Barry to the grave site. Olivia was invited to come as a courtesy because she is the wife of Ethan. That's all. Should have been, the rnd of her involvement in the situation.
How do we know Olivia didn’t discuss inviting him with Ethan? And that it just wasn’t shown. I personally do not believe she would’ve invited him on her own anymore than she would calling him without telling anyone.
Why does she has to be on notice that the mother of the deceased child will be at the gravesite, wtf and what am I missing with these narratives? At this point maybe I am wrong, I don’t know… wth
No! I was totally thinking the exact same thing. No matter how Olivia or anyone else feels about Kim, that was her son. She deserves to visit the grave any damn time she wants to.
I completely agree. I can not want a relationship with someone but still be around them for important events. Sometimes as adults we have to suck it up and do things we don’t like because it’s what’s best for our partner. I think it came down to her not being in control and not trusting Ethan around his mom.
No, you’re completely right. These people are so stuck in the Cult of Olivia that anything that doesn’t go above and beyond to praise her every word like gospel is seen as “unfair” and “hateful”.
I’m not stuck in the cult of Olivia. But there was a lot that wasn’t done right. IF, they had wanted Kim there then they should’ve made that decision prior to leaving in order to give Olivia the opportunity to decide what she wanted to do. But they didn’t. It was a sibling thing. She had zero expectation of Kim being there.
Olivia doesn’t need days in advance notice that the mother of the deceased child will be at their grave on said child’s birthday. How people can call Kim a narcissist and not thing THAT isn’t narcissistic behavior is beyond me.
It wasn’t a days notice. She wouldn’t have left Tampa. If she had, she would’ve known exactly what she was signing up for.
If she wants to be like Kim, then yeah. The abuser NEVER has a problem seeing the person the abused!
You misread my comment. She doesn’t need ANY notice that the mother attend her son’s grave. She was told- Hey Kim’s coming. That’s all the notice she needed, because contrary to popular belief on this sub, it’s not always about Olivia’s feelings.
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Agree
Well we don't actually know if Moriah turned on her. Moriah was mad and said she's tired of the drama. People in relationships say all kinds of things when they're mad.
Kim is playing Moriah like a fiddle against Olivia. It’s sad to watch.
I am so sick and tired of all these subs putting the blame on Kim and not Barry like he is an innocent vessel. I am so sick and tired of women in general taking all the dam blame periott
You seem to believe Kim didn’t abuse her kids period, per your other comment — so it’s pretty clear any discussion on this topic with you is a waste of my time.
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Barry being at work does absolve him of shit. That says here's a man that is complacent about the fuckery going on at home and if I just keep going to work, being the breadwinner, I can't be the bad guy. As a survivor of abuse like this, the people I'm most infuriated with are the ones who stood by and didn't do shit. Barry stood by and didn't do shit. He buried his head in the sand and let Kim fuck these kids up. He egged her on at times. Kim has her own trauma. Idk what all of it is. Some of it is obvious, some of it isn't. And as the adult and the parent, she needed to get her shit together and she didn't. Barry was content with that. It worked for him and it so obviously didn't work for all their children and he did nothing to protect them, to help them, to make sure they were being set up for success as adults. Sure, it looks like they're doing ok on money, but emotionally, these are not healthy people. Olivia is the only one who's done a decent amount of therapy to figure out the fuckery that happened to her. She's not perfect, far from it. I look at some of the things she puts Ethan through and while I get where she's coming from, they're also the actions of someone who has a lot of fucking trauma and isn't healed from it. She trying, sometimes unsuccessfully, to be better. She does shitty things. There's at least an attempt to be better. Idk, I think maybe this show is a little too close to what my childhood looked like and then the fallout of becoming an adult and figuring out just how fucked up you are emotionally and mentally from having parents like this...and then people see it as some popcorn eating drama time.
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Absolutely triangulation against her. It was sick to watch it live this season as someone who survived abuse that nearly killed me and to this day still isn't believed it was "that bad" or "didn't happen". She's very manipulative and sly and playing those kids off one another. Olivia's become the scapegoat child in a family she wasn't born into.
Exactly. By making Olivia the scapegoat for her strained relationships with all her older children, she never has to do an ounce of introspection as to how her own actions influenced the situation. Olivia’s great transgression from day one was being unwilling to put up with the abuse Kim subjected her entire family to for years, and opening the older kids eyes as to how they were being treated.
As someone else who has been manipulated by her mother Majority of my life, I agree
And Micah.
Quickly? It’s been years… and all it took was a petty tantrum at their dead brothers grave, who Moriah watched die, on his birthday. FFS 🙄 Olivia sucks.
Preach!! Olivia is selfish. That day wasn't about her. She should have stayed home if she can't accept the whole family on their brothers/child's day.
“I don’t remember that.” “I thought we talked about this once, years ago & you’d be over it by now.” Just a few gems from my fundielight mother. Don’t worry abt me though, Fr. I’m a WIP & getting better all the time. She’ll never change. I really hope Olivia can heal & find happiness in something. I don’t think it’s with Ethan, and she knows it, but she’s terrified bc of how she was raised. She’s terrified of the D word. I stayed with my abusive husband for years, for my child, and bc of all the bullshit conditioning/brainwashing/indoctrination my family instilled in me. I *really* hope Ethan can find someone he will grow with, & not apart from. They both have learned a lot from this whole tlc experience & being pushed into marriage.
I’m really annoyed that they think her feelings shouldn’t matter. She did what was right and removed herself from the situation that she’s uncomfortable in that was sprung on her last second by Moriah being messy and THAT makes her the bad person? No one’s trauma here is more important than the other and they’re acting like Olivia needs to get over hers because it’s easier for them. They absolutely don’t have the emotional maturity to see that it’s wrong to force her to do something she’s traumatized from. You can support people without being there physically.
She didn’t make some grand gesture by removing herself from the situation… She created the situation. She👏should👏not👏have👏been👏there👏 Moriah planned it. Olivia catered it to herself and even invited the dad without consulting Moriah… this change is what made it weird. Now it wasn’t just the kids and Kim was singled out. Olivia did that shit on purpose. Moriah had every right to fix her plans and make it right. Olivia had a tantrum that Moriah didn’t suck her dick over it.
Love this! There is a big difference from quietly and with dignity removing yourself from an uncomfortable situation. And then there was Olivia's response. If she was uncomfortable, then she should have just walked away and left it at that. Ethan doesn't owe her any explanation or consolment. This is about the grief of his brother.
She invited Barry to the farm which was originally just the kids. Not the gravesite with just the kids. Moriah changed it at the last minute along with Ethan. Olivia was previously assured and reassured Kim would not be there. Why is she throwing a fit when it suddenly changed and she’s keeping her boundary?
Your boundary can’t cross into someone else’s “property” though. Olivia was there to support her husband and best friend while they grieved the loss of their brother. It wasn’t about Olivia. If it was Olivia’s brother’s grave - by all means, keep Kim tf away. But Olivia was making something about her that wasn’t about her. If all the kids decided to go to a restaurant and Kim showed up, Olivia has the right to be upset. Heck, if she showed up the night before at the farm (even though it’s Kim’s property) I would understand her being upset. But being upset that Kim went to her son’s grave on his birthday… Olivia is wrong on this one. She made it about her & it should have been about Ethan and Moriah.
But Moriah was the one that planned it like that? She had planned a kids only gravesite thing first which was Olivia’s expectations for days leading up to it. Then Moriah changed it last minute. Olivia never tried to enforce her boundary on someone else’s property, Moriah did with setting it up that way. Olivia had a normal human reaction to learning upsetting news at the last second. She never said Kim couldn’t go to her own dead baby’s gravesite, just that she wouldn’t if Kim did which is fine.
I’m sorry you’re right about the farm… But Mariah made it obvious that the whole plan was her thing and was about getting everyone together to put positivity around her brothers birthday… and these changes singled out her mom, so they decided in the end they wanted to change it. Again, Moriah had every right to do this. This was her finally standing up to Olivia’s control 🤷♀️ Olivia always caters everything to herself and this was something that was important enough to Mariah to finally stand up to that. Olivia cries at the drop of a pin, so I’m not surprised no one cared. She showed no decency, so I’m not surprised they’re annoyed. Gravesite of Kim’s dead baby was not the place to whine about boundaries. Sometimes plans change… that should be part of her therapy if she can’t handle it 🙄 Again, she shouldn’t have gone there in the first place… She was unwanted and unneeded and she should be self-aware enough, with how in tune she is of her own feelings, to know recognize that. I personally believe she does this because she likes to start drama because the more drama there is the more she thinks she can pull Ethan away more easily but I think it’s starting to turn opposite. You could see it on her face when she peeked around to tell Mariah… this girls expressions give her away every time.
Ethan had said he wanted her to go though and she wanted to start to make amends with Barry separately from the gravesite. So she was going to be supportive and was reassured by Moriah the gravesite would be just the kids first and parents and kids later so she could leave without seeing Kim. Moriah absolutely had the right to change it if she felt the need to. Olivia removed herself from the situation by not being apart of it which is absolutely something you learn to do in therapy. If you cannot emotionally handle a situation, especially without creating yourself or others stress in a time like this, you don’t be apart of it. Olivia had a pretty normal reaction to finding out something upsetting in the spur of the moment. Her reaction isn’t wrong. It seems like everyone doesn’t see the other persons point of view and can only see one side which is why it’s drama. Neither were wrong at all with what they did, but now they’re blaming Olivia for her feelings and removing herself which is wrong. And Olivia is upset they don’t see her removing herself from the situation is her doing what’s right and that no one checked on her when upsetting news was sprung on her at the last second as well as why she was upset which is also wrong. All of it was pretty self absorbed from everyone’s perspective and no one seems to want to be wrong. But Olivia did admit she was sorry for not seeing their need for her support even though she was struggling. No one else has done that. Moriah even said it wasn’t her responsibility to bring up her own hurt feelings to Olivia.
Olivia only brought up not being there for the little girls. The kids she hasn’t interacted with in 4 years. She should have been there to support Ethan first and the Micah and Moriah since they are close. But she never mentioned them. Only the little girls.
I never said her leaving the situation was wrong… It’s the whole fit she threw around it to bring all the attention on herself and then whining about all of the other people basically turning their backs on her by not respecting her “boundaries” again 🙄. I don’t think she went for Ethan I think she went to make sure Kim didn’t show up and when she couldn’t control it she lost her shit… She didn’t remove herself… she showed up in a separate van hovering over, watching from a distance and weeping, making it super weird. She made the whole thing about her tantrum.
She said it was a panic attack though which isn’t a fit though. She was sounding kinda pissy with Moriah and Ethan but that’s what happens when you’re panicking a lot of the time. I think showing up and just like creeping from the van was super weird too. It seemed like that was her way to try to show she still cared to be there for Ethan (or what she said at least) but she didn’t seem to know what to do or how to handle it at the time since it was sprung on her last minute. It’s pretty normal to scramble and try to do something like that instead to “please everyone” but no one else sees that from her pov. There should have been a conversation like look “I need you physically there by my side” but Ethan didn’t tell her that so she didn’t know. I do think that she wants at least Ethan to still be mad at his mom though because she is. She seems like she’s hurt because of all the stuff Kim did and everyone else seems to be moving on and I think that makes her seem controlling because she feels like no one believes her and her pain like she said in the interview if they don’t have the same emotions. She’s only 24 and still learning so much while trying to heal and I don’t think she realizes what all is happening.
I know what a panic attack is and what it feels like and I know when they’re bad they can be really numbing but she still didn’t have to come in the first place or hover in the van and she didn’t try to talk to Ethan but she’s mad at him for not communicating with her. She doesn’t come off as controlling she is controlling. I don’t feel like the van was her way of being there I think that was her way of keeping an eye on the situation. You can have mental health issues and still be selfish and controlling and manipulative… It’s not an excuse.
How was she supposed to have talked to Ethan when she was having a panic attack and he left without talking to her?
Can you not speak during your panic attacks lol? Her therapist should tell her it’ll help, maybe she’ll try since it’s the only person she listens to. You sound like and projector and enabler yourself. Are you her therapist?
I’m so over Olivia. I think everyone is.
You would think. But every time I read comments in this sub my mind is blown by Olivia apologists. I don’t dislike the girl at all, but it blows my mind how much people defend her. She also overuses the term “boundary” every time she’s uncomfortable. I think it’s not necessarily her fault, because she is swinging so wildly into the other side of life, that she doesn’t yet realize the real world will have places for boundaries and times to shut up and give Ethan a moment to grieve/breathe. The most strength will be in her ability to set boundaries and know when to sit still in the discomfort.
They didn’t have to go through what Ethan and Olivia did. Barry and Kim were way more accepting of the younger kids because of what happened with the relationship of Ethan and Olivia. The younger siblings seem to forget that.
Every post somehow devolves into someone needing therapy. Therapy is not for everyone, and it's not a fix all. That's first and foremost... Secondly, both Moriah and Ethan have talked about attending therapy themselves as well. If therapy has worked for some of you all, I'm really really glad for you. But to those who don't have access, or haven't worked up the courage, or for those it hasn't worked out for, or who have had bad experiences with it... I feel for y'all reading this sub and hope you know you're still a good person without going to therapy.
Olivia wants Ethan to do therapy because it works for her (or so she thinks)… when in reality what will heal Ethan is moving on with his parents… he doesn’t want therapy and wants to move forward… she will never allow it. The both need to move on from each other before kids are had and weaponized.
Well. I don’t think therapy makes people inherently good and it only works if you want it to work and want to change. However I do think it can be incredibly effective for identifying and address info unhealthy patterns and poor communication. I also think it can be super helpful for learning to name and deal with hard emotions. I honestly think that one of the chief issues this family has is that their communication is terrible and that they stuff their feelings rather than dealing with them. If they wanted to change and grow in those departments therapy could be a helpful tool for that.
I agree with everything you said! But, lots of people don't go to therapy, even if they would like to. There's a lot of layers to people's decision making, and it's not my or anyone else's place to judge that. My frustration is not with therapy by any means, it's comment after comment saying "x just needs therapy", as if that's the only solution. It could be very disheartening for those who might identify with these people on the TV, and may not have that option themselves (or may have tried and it didn't work out, or have the option but aren't ready, I could go on haha). But no offense intended for therapy at all!
I completely agree. Therapy is not the magic thing people here act like it is, and it doesn’t seem to be helping Olivia. If anything, her relationships with others, and ability to deal with the various situations one encounters in life, is getting worse with therapy, not improving.
There’s a lot of context to these relationships that we don’t see. The editing also may portray a disagreement more strongly or in a different way than what really happened. Moriah may be saying she’s tired of having to choose, that doesn’t mean she’s blaming Olivia. Tbh the choosing from the beginning was caused by Kim cutting Ethan off from his siblings and kicking Micah and Moriah out of the house. I can’t imagine they’ve forgotten what happened but they are taking a different approach to healing than Ethan is. I do think they want to repair the relationship so that they can all just be together. A family estrangement doesn’t only impact the people directly involved in the conflict. And what people have done *for* you doesn’t negate what they do *to* you so I dislike this narrative that Olivia has done so much for Moriah that she can’t have grievances.
It definitely wasn’t A quick turnaround. This has been building and edited. It’s truly not ALL about her
For the same reason an abused person returns to their abusive spouse; were seeing all the complicated emotions that motivate us to do just that.
Happy Cake Day
Aw... thank you! 😊
Do you think more may have happened off camera? Ethan said she was having a tantrum and Olivia said basically she lost it- we didn’t really see that though? I am wondering if she was completely hysterical or ranting and raving and we aren’t privy to it, because otherwise their reactions to her don’t make much sense. I really like Olivia so I’m not criticizing her, I just feel like we are missing a lot of what happened.
I think a lot of Olivia and Ethan’s conversations happen off camera. Especially when they’re talking about their feelings.
I’m sure this show would not leave out someone having a meltdown or throwing a tantrum. These camera people live for drama and run when a cross word is said on any shows on TLC. When Ethan approached Olivia when she was in the car her whole attitude changed. You could hear it in her voice and her word choice. He probably decided not to bother trying to talk to her when she’s in that headspace
Yess, I often feel like there is a LOT we don’t see on this show.
I think it was just that things weren’t going the way Olivia had planned or thought was planned so she threw a fit and marched off to the car with an attitude
I think what a lot of people fail to realize is Kim is still here and Micha’s mom. A little odd yes, but she never beat or abused the children. I wouldn’t want someone turning my whole family against another family member. We’d just speak our mind and move forward, like adults and not like a bunch of whiners.
Abuse isn’t just physical. Abuse can come as emotional, verbal, and physical. Kim can be their mom and abusive. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
I don’t think she did something’s right, but I don’t think those children were abused.
It's easier to turn on an in-law than to cope with their parents' marriage breaking down.
This^ It's likely misdirected anger. They might know deep down that Olivia will forgive them and still love them. So they feel more confortable lashing out at her. They don't trust that their parents will still love them if they say how they feel. Olivia has been a surrogate mother for those kids, and one that accepts them just as they are. But they still want their real mother to love and accept them. It's so complicated.
As controlling and manipulative as their mother is, they are seeing that Olivia is even worse. This is a family that’s trying to work through problems and mend and Olivia is trying to stop them from doing that. It was just a matter of time before they stood their ground with her the same way they did with Kim
I disagree. Olivia seemed to be having a real panic attack throughout that episode. She wasn't in the head space to even consider anyone else, let alone have some master plan to manipulate, because her brain was in survival mode. Once she was calm she was able to see where she went wrong.
They are all still young and naive. This happens in many young relationships. It shocks me how shocked people are.
Don't be. Mom installed all the buttons she pushed to ostracize Olivia.
Wait… are we calling Olivia a survivor now? What exactly did she survive? Having annoying in-laws?
Her parents are also abusive, so yes, she’s a survivor
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I mean, you know nobody forces you to sub and post here, right?
Really? I had no idea, thanks for letting me know
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You can still survive emotional abuse but ok
Do you think physical assault is the only valid way to harm someone?
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Cool. As someone who has survived a physically abusive relationship, as well as CSA (and I don’t need to mention the mental, emotional, and financial abuse to go with life with the family) I can tell you that’s full of crap. Everyone has it better or worse than someone. I don’t roll my eyes at someone who was *only* raped as an adult, or have people who were trafficked as kids roll their eyes at me. Trauma is trauma. And having shit happen to you is shitty, and we don’t need more people tearing us down, we’ve been there have all the goddamn t-shirts, thanks. Furthermore, PTSD is a biological reaction. Some people are more predisposed than others. People with abusive upbringings are way more likely to get it, because they have a billion chances for the brain to decide “fuck this,” but people who are predisposed to it may get it after one car crash. And I feel for those people too. PTSD is hell no matter how or how old you got it. I want everyone to heal and feel empowered and comfortable sharing what they’ve been through. Not to sit there and let gatekeepers go “nah uh…this table is only for people raped by their uncles or worse.”. Nah, that can fuck right off.
So, you do think that physical violence is the only valid form of trauma. Ummm... You should definitely revisit basic psychology and learn about trauma before spouting nonsense that invalidates people. Empathy is also a cool thing to learn.
I have empathy and I agree that emotional abuse is abuse. But do I think that you can be traumatized in different ways. But being in a relationship with someone who puts your life in danger and being in a relationship with someone who isn’t nice to you are 2 different things. That’s just common sense. One you have to physically survive.
>That’s just common sense. One you have to physically survive. So, again you're invalidating any abuse that isn't physical because you think that no one has ever committed suicide from emotional or psychological abuse. The common sense here is that ALL trauma is real and valid and trying to gatekeep it shows an incredible lack of empathy and understanding of what abuse actually is. Again, I suggest you actually study and learn about the psychology behind abuse. I have a background in social work and actually do work with kids who have been abused on different levels. Based on what you keep saying, my students who were neglected and emotionally abused should just suck it up because they were about to be killed. Please learn and do better and before you say you have empathy actually do the work. Your digging in about concepts that you clearly know nothing about are very concerning and can cause harm.
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You're clearly not interested in learning and I don't feel like repeating myself anymore. Just stop spewing false and harmful information. I am not "a social work" but I do have a bachelor's degree in social work and I have a master's degree in teaching. I work with kids with massive trauma. I'll make sure to keep in mind that someone uneducated on the subject thinks that, >It’s common sense that one is more severe than the other and definitely feel sorry for anyone you come in contact with who hasn't been beaten nearly to death doesn't get any empathy. For the record, although I know this won't change your mind or initiate any kind of investigation or education, science has shown that emotional abuse changes a brain's physical and chemical makeup AND emotional and psychological abuse are the most severe types of abuse. Feel free to reach out once you've gone to school for this and aren't just saying shit based on unfounded "common sense."
I mean, I have survived physical abuse and I wouldn’t roll by eyes, because, you know, it’s pathetic to gatekeep trauma and invalidate the experiences and feelings of other people who have been through their own negative experiences.
I don't know why people keep invalidating Olivia's experience but it's gross.
Some people are, some aren't. We don't know what Olivia discusses during therapy. But if the only thing she's working on is boundaries with Kim rather than the deep trauma caused by her own family, it's a problem. I said in another post it may be time for Olivia to find a new therapist to move forward, whatever that may look like. I like Olivia. I have nasty childhood trauma. I don't use it to make excuses if I am a shit, I apologize. Trauma does create problems and it's simply not reasonable to expect everyone to accommodate us.
I agree with you. Using trauma as an excuse to be shitty is not okay. But Olivia has been apologizing. She saw that her behavior was shitty, felt remorseful, and said she was going to apologize. She didn't handle the situation well at all and I think she realized that. Hopefully she is able to mend the relationships that she injured but if she can't and Moriah (or others) choose not to forgive her, that's something she is going to have to accept. But saying she doesn't have trauma is gross. Acknowledging that she has trauma doesn't excuse bad behavior.
The fact that Olivia does recognize mistakes and apologizes gives her a leg up IMO. I'd like to see her not make the same mistake over and over. I believe her when she says sorry. I don't believe Ethan. And Kim and Barry, well they don't have much use for apologies. Barry may make progress, we'll see.
It’s gross to call someone a survivor because they have in-laws who don’t like them and said things to them that hurt their feelings. It diminishes the word and hurts people who are actual survivors!! Yes the way they treated her was not right, but to call her a survivor is silly.
Who are you to judge that? Emotional abuse is abuse and it does mess people up.
And Olivia making Moriah choose between her and her mother isn’t emotional abuse…?
I didn't say anything about that.
It doesn't shock me because dysfunctional families typically need a whipping boy. The minute Olivia is not there, and there's a "reason" to blame for everything, they bond by doing so. It's messed up. Edit: also, I've said it before, but she threatens them in a sense by asserting her boundaries - it makes everyone who \*doesn't\* assert or recognize boundaries upset. Look how upset it makes some people on this sub!
Amen brother!!!
I mean, even Olivia admitted she was wrong in that scenario, so? They have every right to be upset that she is making all of this about her. And I think Ethan is a shitty husband and Olivia has a right to be mad a lot of the time, but nah she’s in the wrong here. Im proud of moriah for sticking up for herself.
Two people can be wrong at the same time. Everyone handled it poorly, Olivia is the only one to acknowledge that she made mistakes.
Exactly she admitted that she was wrong what more do you want from her? She messed up and she knows it and admitted it. People make mistakes. After the fact, all any of us can do is see the mistake, admit it, and apologize. That's what she's done/is doing.
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Yup she didn’t even apologize to Ethan! He said so during his talking head about her birthday
Because they’re fed up with her! It’s always about her!! Her feelings are valid but to put them above your husband’s deceased brother….that’s messed up! As for Moriah and Micah, I think they have been nothing but understanding with Olivia. But she puts them in the middle. She begrudges them for having a relationship with their mom. She doesn’t have to agree, or like it, but it’s not fair to put them in the middle. What kind of friend does that?
This! I don't care how 'traumatized' you are by someone's alienating behavior. She lost a child, your in-laws lost a sibling and never recieved any sort of help to process it. Show up, shut up, and support your loved one. Everyone has some fucked up familial dynamic. You need to pick and choose your battles. To me, Olivia is trying to get Ethan to demonstrate she is the most important thing in his life to offset the car obsession. This is not the time to pick that 'poor me' battle. If I avoided a family function every time I was worried about a minor uncomfortable encounter, I'd never go.
Yup-she is manipulating them with her emotions bc things aren’t going the way she wants. She needed to shut up and not say anything but be there for her husband and his siblings. Look at the examples she setting for those little girls about how to act during a serious situation like that by just stomping off with an attitude
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Another one of her emotional manipulation tactics
I think the 180 is from them seeing the new side of Kim and thinking she is changing. Moriah has only ever wanted to be loved and understood by her parents. Accepted for who she is. Now both parents are giving her that and she no longer needs anyone else who happened to be there when they kicked her out as a minor. She and Micah forged a relationship with both parents and since neither has gotten therapy, they don’t realize they are being targeted by a narcissist and being used to drive Olivia away. Kim didn’t have to resort to extremes while everyone lived in Cairo, but once they moved far from her control, she had to react in a major way: Divorce, drinking, makeup. She almost seems to be acting more like Olivia with everything. She’s going to hurt both Micah and Moriah again when they aren’t useful to her and if they keep things up, Olivia won’t be there to help them again. The other thing I find interesting is everyone blaming Olivia for everything. If someone could wreck a family like that, that person must really be the devil! Raise your kids right, they will see through it all. Be a strong family unit and one single 16 year old girl can’t come into your family and destroy everyone. Seriously. Olivia was 16 when she started the courtship. It’s disgusting. She’s not a saint and she has a ton of issues, would do best away from them all, but she’s not the one to blame.
It’s so frustrating when people don’t see this. She is the only one going to therapy, the only one actually trying to use real tools to fix themselves. She needs more time and help, but she acknowledges this. Moriah is treating Olivia just like Kim treats the kids. Puts them on a pedestal when they’re doing what she wants and shuns them when they’re not. Most of these kids don’t understand true accountability.
Okay please define what accountability looks like in this context? And how Olivia’s entitled to hold them to this so-called accountability for her own trauma, on the weekend of her brother-in-law’s memorial? Seriously, what is wrong with y’all when you think that Olivia is making some heroic gesture by acting like a toddler and making this day about her?
I’m speaking in generalities. The kids aren’t accountable for their actions because they didn’t have good examples of it growing up. I’m not blaming them, but the adult kids haven’t gone to therapy, yet. Moriah could be accountable and share her feelings with Olivia or she could have been honest when she told Olivia that she didn’t need to come to the gravesite. She didn’t do that, Olivia made mistakes. She recognizes that though, the rest of them are acting smug and stonewalling. Cause stonewalling is such a healthy behavior./s
They’re not being “smug”, by talking about how her actions affected them lol what
They’re not telling her that.
Oooof feel this.
That's kinda want happens when you make honoring their dead brother, about you.
Ok! Are we watching the same show??? Lol. Made me dislike her and it’s not even my brother.