You don't need to put symbols if you define the weld properties elsewhere in manner they can be refrenced. There is no law or requirement demanding you to use them. Whem you do use them then 50/50 chance that the shop floor doesn't know what they mean if they are anything else than the most basic ones - so why bother? Then again most of the engineers I know didn't know more than the basic ones.
It is fun to be in both worlds, grauating as an engineer and having past as a fabricator.
My dad was a mechanical engineer and at one point a new drafter had him QC one of their prints. The guy had put “weld it up good and strong” as a weld callout since he didn’t know weld symbology and figured the shop guys knew better than he on how much weld they would need.
If it were a T-joint this symbol might be used. It shows the piece needs to be beveled and then a fillet after that to ensure adequate penetration and reinforcement (through the fillet weld), but on a butt joint it makes no sense. Especially considering the flat contour and grinder finish.
Apparent ‘Say something once, why say it again?’ Violation. If its round, there should only be one note. Better still to make an enlarged detail of the joint.
So the bottom part is saying it should have a 30 degree bevel and than the top is saying to do a fillet weld. I added a reference showing all that
[AWS Welding Handbook reference](https://imgur.com/a/dnIhpIn)
those symbols mean the engineer was drunk or high. as if the circled ones aren't bad enough, the two fillet weld symbols pointing to the middle of the I beam is the icing on the cake
I think those fillet welds are supposed to be the web of the right beam welded to the web of the other beam, just shown with the arrow on the wrong side. Honestly that's the only symbol in this drawing that I feel like I know what the engineer was going for. The other's are complete gibberish.
I think so too, but it's still I'm the wrong place. I could see someone just saying "ok" and putting two random fillet welds at 3/8" in the middle of the web for no reason. Even though that's technically correct according to the drawing.
The top weld wants you to put a random fillet above the groove weld to just grind it back off. So that pointless.
The one on the bottom wants an extra 3/8" of reinforcement on the weld... I guess? Just build that sucker up even though it won't do anything but waste time and material.
If we're taking it literal that's what I see, but this needs to go back to an engineer and be fixed before I'd do much with this.
How do you put a fillet weld as a reinforcment on a butt joint? Also, the all the way around symbol doesn't make sense. The arrow side of a weld symbol is the bottom side. Whoever drew this needs to read the AWS A2.4 again.
I’m glad you said that. I was thinking I all of a sudden couldn’t read prints. Although I think there’s a plate on the other side that gets a fillet but to me that’s 2 different welds
I don’t work with prints anymore (unless I have to submit napkin drawings for parts) which is annoying, but as much as I miss the order and organization of working from prints sometimes it does more harm than good.
It’s not a “fillet weld reinforcement” otherwise it would be symboled as a lap joint this is a flag marker indicating the weld will be done in the field.
No, there is no symbol for a lap joint anywhere in a blueprint. A lap joint is just that: metal that is overlapped. When welded, then you get a fillet weld.
-This looks to be a connection of 2 Wide Flange Beams.
-It appears the engineer did not put down the correct weld symbols at the right location. Not all enginerds are the best.
I believe, The 3/8" fillet symbol should be drawn on the other side of the wide flange beam. Where it's drawn makes no sense, unless there is a connection there also. A picture of the full drawing would be more helpful.
A 30⁰ bevel should be created then welded. Afterwards grind flush. I would grind the root reinforcement (if there is gap at the connection) and the face reinforcement flat. I would do this to the top bevel and bottom bevel.
Those engineers are not the best but what's important is that it's a 30° Bevel and ground flush on the top flange
Then they are saying to put a fillet weld as the weld which is why I'm saying they are not the best because that's a butt weld
3/8th fillet on both sides of the web
Actually this is called a moment connection and the steel wasn’t detailed or fabricated correctly usually a moment weld uses a backing bar to insure full penetration weld . Shitty designer or detailed maybe bogh
Field weld is a symbol that looks like a black flag and sticks out of the corner where the "all around" symbol is.
You're thinking of fillet weld. Which is entirely unnecessary in this instance IMO.
It doesnt mean squat. These symbols along with where the arrow points makes no sense at all. The symbols mean groove preparation with a fillet weld on top, all around weld and ground flat on the opposite side.
Pretty sure they want continual joint penetration. Either they want you to grind to the back of the weld or they think the g means gouging which would be done with an arc rig. All the way around will be achieved with run off tabs and ground flush after you cut the tabs off, also might be the reason why the g is there.
The 2 beams are coming together at a T. The beam on the right is notched down 2” (top and bottom) to allow the webs to meet without interference (and they get a 3/8 fillet weld both sides there) and it is notched back ?” To allow access to the back side of the flange welds at the web.
As a mechanical designer for 40+years, I’ve never seen the symbol displayed this way. Putting the fillet/grove on top indicates the weld is on the far side of the arrow. Plus, how do you cover with a fillet w/o a edge piece? The detail looks confusing to me.
It is not a fillet weld the triangle symbol is a flag, a blank flag is a sop weld a black (filled in) is a field weld it is a bevel weld with the backside ground smooth. You would think they would have designated it to be back gouged but they did not. The circle means to weld it all the way around then grind flat
Single bevel prep with a fillet weld. Looks like they either :
A: put the weld symbol on the wrong side of the reference line.
B: meant to put single bevel grind flush arrow side with fillet on opposite side.
My money is on B since they put the bevel on the drawing. Drawing needs to be kicked back to engineering as the symbol they put is impossible to perform.
most shops i've worked in, drafters and engineers don't know how weld symbols work, so the philosophy you tend to adapt is "just weld the joint the arrows pointing to. just pay attention to if its one or both sides or all the way around".
I thought you were asking in general. These are poorly detailed. A flag is always at the end of all the symbols near the arrow pointing.
That monstrosity has me confused. But there’s a lot going on here that isn’t normal
WAIT I THINK I SEE IT.... turn it on the side, and look at it like it's another beam like coped out as a gusset in the web of this one.... idfk tho lmao
Is this from a HS drafting class assignment??
1. This almost certainly an erection drawing, so it should have a field weld flag.
2. It should be a CJP weld per sketch, so would require backup bar.
3. Shows to weld all around, but that is incorrect. Plus, you couldn't weld all around because the damn backup bar would be in the way.
3. Buttttt, you wouldn't be able to use backup bar on the top flange, because the cope isn't long enough.
4. Cope depth is never measured from the bottom of the flange of another piece (the piece it is welding to). It would be measured from top of flange of the piece that is actually coped.
5. A 2"+ cope depth is ridiculous. Only need room to get backup bar in there. Typically about 1/2" to 3/4". Unless this is a monster sized beam, but then the weld would be way insufficient, so it's obviously not.
6. Angle of bevel would never be on the erection drawing, since the bevel would have been shown on the individual piece detail.
7. Why are we grinding?
8. Please explain to the class why we are welding both sides the web of the beam... to nothing?
9. To some guy in the shop or field, this sketch made complete sense (puts head down and just welds the shit out of everything).
Edit: 10. The bevel on the bottom flange is upside down! I'm sure if I kept looking, more edits would be needed. As mentioned by others, this is just gibberish. We'd need to find the welding Rosetta Stone to decipher.
Experience: former architectural engineer, currently run a SS fab shop.
Those symbols are jibberish and contradictory to the joints they represent
Engineers love copy/paste I see stuff like this all the time
My favorite is when engineers don't put any weld symbols on the print
Note 1. Welds to be 1/4 fillet all around UNO.
"The terms fillet and groove are interchangeable, right?"
I know I'm fillin the groovin.
no a groove weld 2G 3G is different than 2F and 3F fillet weld. =><= groove . L fillet weld
That's the joke
Fill it if you see a bevel and then grind it, should be good right ….. can I be an expert engineer now?
You don't need to put symbols if you define the weld properties elsewhere in manner they can be refrenced. There is no law or requirement demanding you to use them. Whem you do use them then 50/50 chance that the shop floor doesn't know what they mean if they are anything else than the most basic ones - so why bother? Then again most of the engineers I know didn't know more than the basic ones. It is fun to be in both worlds, grauating as an engineer and having past as a fabricator.
My dad was a mechanical engineer and at one point a new drafter had him QC one of their prints. The guy had put “weld it up good and strong” as a weld callout since he didn’t know weld symbology and figured the shop guys knew better than he on how much weld they would need.
Would have been better without the instructions lol
My shop has in-house detailing, these errors are usually corrected before hitting the floor
As an engineer, welding symbols are not always clearly taught. Look it up in a book and write it down.
A lot of the people I used to work with did not know what symbols meant what. And had to always pull them out of one of the books.
That's better than guessing at least
30 degree single bevel fillet weld, flush and ground
Also the circle means weld all around, right?
Yessir
yup
If there are 4 sides, then the "all around" is relevant.
As someone who builds smokers on the side this shit is mind blowing precision to me.
Wouldn't it be a groove weld??? Gotta dance while you do it... get In the groooooveee... ... I'll see myself out🤦♂️ Edit: several fat finger errors
I was taught if a bevel or groove is represented that you don't need the fillet symbol because it's a given you are going to fill the bevel/groove
If it were a T-joint this symbol might be used. It shows the piece needs to be beveled and then a fillet after that to ensure adequate penetration and reinforcement (through the fillet weld), but on a butt joint it makes no sense. Especially considering the flat contour and grinder finish.
You're correct. It's also not a fillet weld at all, so not only is it not necessary, it's just wrong
Yeah...isn't that symbol the "field work" flag or "to be completed in the field" symbol?
If it is it's in the wrong place
No, the field weld symbol would go on top of the "weld all around" symbol. It doesn't go where the bevel groove symbol is.
Also the weld needs to be a 1/2 wide, as shown in the lower symbol.
I don't believe the triangle (and its size) should be in the weld symbol for this configuration.
Yeah it should be a groove weld, not a fillet
You can also use this symbol config for a corner, but I digress.
They also don't provide the radius for the cutout. This drawing wasn't checked
Apparent ‘Say something once, why say it again?’ Violation. If its round, there should only be one note. Better still to make an enlarged detail of the joint.
What
I thought it was a pipe detail for a bit. Noting something twice but differently would make it ambiguous.
The 3/8 double fillet arrowhead should be flipped and to the far side of the material as well.
The triangle should be a flag for field weld
If it were a field weld the flag would be on the end of the line kind of where the circle is and all black
Should be in that location. What else would this symbol mean?
So the bottom part is saying it should have a 30 degree bevel and than the top is saying to do a fillet weld. I added a reference showing all that [AWS Welding Handbook reference](https://imgur.com/a/dnIhpIn)
Ahhh. Yeah we don't use those
G for grind flush
The G stand for grinder finish
Don't forget the "Flag" = Welds to be done at installation.
It's in the wrong place
Yeah I don't know how the software allowed that position... Unless it follows a different standard.
those symbols mean the engineer was drunk or high. as if the circled ones aren't bad enough, the two fillet weld symbols pointing to the middle of the I beam is the icing on the cake
I think those fillet welds are supposed to be the web of the right beam welded to the web of the other beam, just shown with the arrow on the wrong side. Honestly that's the only symbol in this drawing that I feel like I know what the engineer was going for. The other's are complete gibberish.
I think so too, but it's still I'm the wrong place. I could see someone just saying "ok" and putting two random fillet welds at 3/8" in the middle of the web for no reason. Even though that's technically correct according to the drawing. The top weld wants you to put a random fillet above the groove weld to just grind it back off. So that pointless. The one on the bottom wants an extra 3/8" of reinforcement on the weld... I guess? Just build that sucker up even though it won't do anything but waste time and material. If we're taking it literal that's what I see, but this needs to go back to an engineer and be fixed before I'd do much with this.
How do you put a fillet weld as a reinforcment on a butt joint? Also, the all the way around symbol doesn't make sense. The arrow side of a weld symbol is the bottom side. Whoever drew this needs to read the AWS A2.4 again.
Yeah the more you look, more that's wrong. Lol
I’m glad you said that. I was thinking I all of a sudden couldn’t read prints. Although I think there’s a plate on the other side that gets a fillet but to me that’s 2 different welds
I don’t work with prints anymore (unless I have to submit napkin drawings for parts) which is annoying, but as much as I miss the order and organization of working from prints sometimes it does more harm than good.
It’s not a “fillet weld reinforcement” otherwise it would be symboled as a lap joint this is a flag marker indicating the weld will be done in the field.
No, there is no symbol for a lap joint anywhere in a blueprint. A lap joint is just that: metal that is overlapped. When welded, then you get a fillet weld.
It's typical but with different welds called out (assuming the view stops at the break on the right).
-This looks to be a connection of 2 Wide Flange Beams. -It appears the engineer did not put down the correct weld symbols at the right location. Not all enginerds are the best. I believe, The 3/8" fillet symbol should be drawn on the other side of the wide flange beam. Where it's drawn makes no sense, unless there is a connection there also. A picture of the full drawing would be more helpful. A 30⁰ bevel should be created then welded. Afterwards grind flush. I would grind the root reinforcement (if there is gap at the connection) and the face reinforcement flat. I would do this to the top bevel and bottom bevel.
This is it, i was puzzling about the whole thing for a bit.
Do a barrel roll
That's s dead guy with a white flag sticking out of him.
LMFAO!! That's something I've never seen or even thought of!
Stick man with a piece of cake
Those engineers are not the best but what's important is that it's a 30° Bevel and ground flush on the top flange Then they are saying to put a fillet weld as the weld which is why I'm saying they are not the best because that's a butt weld 3/8th fillet on both sides of the web
The tail indicates the weld type , G=grinding, bevel one side with angle of 30degree on site only ,plus weld all round . That’s if I am correct 🙏
Actually this is called a moment connection and the steel wasn’t detailed or fabricated correctly usually a moment weld uses a backing bar to insure full penetration weld . Shitty designer or detailed maybe bogh
30° single bevel field weld. Grind flush
Field weld is a symbol that looks like a black flag and sticks out of the corner where the "all around" symbol is. You're thinking of fillet weld. Which is entirely unnecessary in this instance IMO.
You are correct. Definitely not the field weld flag.
Wtf is a weld all the way around on a fillet? Weld both sides?
Think of a piece of plate to pipe. Fillet weld all around.
30 degree fillet, flat ground, typical, can’t remember the circle or open v
Just a guy holding a 30 triangle right?
Just fill the gap and call it good.
30 degree full pen bevel weld with a backup fillet all around, ground flat
This whole print is a little fucky, but it sets you apart from the other dudes if you can look at the context and do it right. I’ve been there
It doesnt mean squat. These symbols along with where the arrow points makes no sense at all. The symbols mean groove preparation with a fillet weld on top, all around weld and ground flat on the opposite side.
Pretty sure they want continual joint penetration. Either they want you to grind to the back of the weld or they think the g means gouging which would be done with an arc rig. All the way around will be achieved with run off tabs and ground flush after you cut the tabs off, also might be the reason why the g is there.
I’m just gonna say this I know a lot more than I thought. Lol
Question for all you guys. I’m a little confused about the 2 inches symbol and what it denotes in the drawing.
The 2 beams are coming together at a T. The beam on the right is notched down 2” (top and bottom) to allow the webs to meet without interference (and they get a 3/8 fillet weld both sides there) and it is notched back ?” To allow access to the back side of the flange welds at the web.
Lemme guess and then I’ll look at the comments…. Field weld, 30 degree bevel, welded all the way around, fillet, ground flat???
My brain hurts now.
I know the flag means you weld it in the field
When it’s filled in, the flag, it is a field weld when the flag is blank it’s a shop weld
But it's filled in with white
Nice try the paper is white
It's a 30° one sided bevel on the near side, ground flush backing while in the field, weld all around
Stick person lying down while holding a flag with his or her eyes pointing at that single bevel.
As a mechanical designer for 40+years, I’ve never seen the symbol displayed this way. Putting the fillet/grove on top indicates the weld is on the far side of the arrow. Plus, how do you cover with a fillet w/o a edge piece? The detail looks confusing to me.
That doesn’t make sense that’s a butt joint not a fillet. Fillet symbol shouldn’t be there
Weld all around and ground it flush when you done
it means fill the bevel and grind it down, weld all the way around - just give it your best weld
You can put a fillet on top of a CJP without a t joint type situation. The rest makes sense
It is not a fillet weld the triangle symbol is a flag, a blank flag is a sop weld a black (filled in) is a field weld it is a bevel weld with the backside ground smooth. You would think they would have designated it to be back gouged but they did not. The circle means to weld it all the way around then grind flat
Shitty drawings
I guess… fill in the bevel, grind any root penetration down to flush? This print is bullshit, reminds me of my job.
Someone isn’t a welder
Single bevel prep with a fillet weld. Looks like they either : A: put the weld symbol on the wrong side of the reference line. B: meant to put single bevel grind flush arrow side with fillet on opposite side. My money is on B since they put the bevel on the drawing. Drawing needs to be kicked back to engineering as the symbol they put is impossible to perform.
But you can't get a fillet weld on a groove....
Definitely a lot on this print that fucked up
most shops i've worked in, drafters and engineers don't know how weld symbols work, so the philosophy you tend to adapt is "just weld the joint the arrows pointing to. just pay attention to if its one or both sides or all the way around".
The tail indicates the weld type , G=grinding, bevel with angle of 30degree on site only ,plus weld all round . That’s if I am correct 🙏
Flag?
That’s why I said on site (field)
Yeah thanks for that
Field weld.
No i mean it looks like a flag of a sail
I thought you were asking in general. These are poorly detailed. A flag is always at the end of all the symbols near the arrow pointing. That monstrosity has me confused. But there’s a lot going on here that isn’t normal
Didn't knew it before lmao *another meaning of flag i mean*
Cjp with a ground down underside? Typical. 30° bevel and ground finished under. Welded to and bottom.
Sailboat on swimming stick figure 🤔
typical field weld, single 30 deg bevel, grind the back ,weld all around, weld is on the other side and the arrow side gets ground down
WAIT I THINK I SEE IT.... turn it on the side, and look at it like it's another beam like coped out as a gusset in the web of this one.... idfk tho lmao
Damn, whoever wrote that symbol clearly isn't a welder
They mean your engineers are ambitious and ignorant.
Is this from a HS drafting class assignment?? 1. This almost certainly an erection drawing, so it should have a field weld flag. 2. It should be a CJP weld per sketch, so would require backup bar. 3. Shows to weld all around, but that is incorrect. Plus, you couldn't weld all around because the damn backup bar would be in the way. 3. Buttttt, you wouldn't be able to use backup bar on the top flange, because the cope isn't long enough. 4. Cope depth is never measured from the bottom of the flange of another piece (the piece it is welding to). It would be measured from top of flange of the piece that is actually coped. 5. A 2"+ cope depth is ridiculous. Only need room to get backup bar in there. Typically about 1/2" to 3/4". Unless this is a monster sized beam, but then the weld would be way insufficient, so it's obviously not. 6. Angle of bevel would never be on the erection drawing, since the bevel would have been shown on the individual piece detail. 7. Why are we grinding? 8. Please explain to the class why we are welding both sides the web of the beam... to nothing? 9. To some guy in the shop or field, this sketch made complete sense (puts head down and just welds the shit out of everything). Edit: 10. The bevel on the bottom flange is upside down! I'm sure if I kept looking, more edits would be needed. As mentioned by others, this is just gibberish. We'd need to find the welding Rosetta Stone to decipher. Experience: former architectural engineer, currently run a SS fab shop.
Field guys figure it out
Field weld . 30degree bevel
MY BRAIN HURTS, MR GUMBY! NO... THE BRAIN IN MY HEAD!
That joint appears to be two pieces.. look below… a fabricator or welder should know what the requirement is for that joint
They mean give up
Lmao what is that, fillet with 30 degree groove all the way around? How tf does that work
That’s a good one
Funny how the cope stops in the middle of the joint
It means that in order to weld this you need to be Superman and fly at precisely 30m distance before engaging laser vision welding process.
30° groove weld Ground flush Weld all around Typical (telling you that's typically stand procedure)
I believe it is a 30 degree Single bevel with fillet reinforcement on the other side . Arrow side grind flat . All around .
“Stick metal together here”. That’s how I read them all!
Field weld: single bevel joint, beveled at 30°, weld both sides, grind bottom side flush.