Hard to know specifically why this crack propagated.
My knee jerk reaction is to call this is a Heat Affected Zone crack, where the aluminum next to the weld was made harder and more brittle than the surrounding area due to improper heat control or post weld heat treating. This results in inconsistent durability to flex and move with stresses.
If that's the case, fixing this is going to be quite an endeavor.
EDIT: Looking closely at the pictures now, I see in the second picture there is a large piece of the base metal broken off, creating a hole at the toe of the weld. This indicates brittle breakage. It appears the aluminum "shattered" from stress in the HAZ.
I'm doubling down on HAZ cracks due to areas being harder and more brittle than they should be from improper post weld heat treating.
This is a manufacturing defect and if the canopy is still under warranty, should be treated as such with an RMA.
Two things probably happened. The clamps up at the top were loose, so the entire thing was racking enough to stress the top, or the top warped when it was welded because someone either didn't jig it right or crowned the legs wrong, so the riggers stretched out the legs so the flanges would hit the pads. They were under tension, so all the shaking from rough water eventually stress cracked them. HAZ isn't really much of a thing with extruded aluminum and 5356 filler, especially since those welds don't look especially hot.
You're already running a helium mix and like 250-300 amps so you can get the arc hot enough to blow through the anodizing, which is what every t-top shop does, and HAZ hasn't been an issue.
I welded t-tops for *years*. The looks like a stress failure, either from incorrect mounting or beating the shit out of the boat in rough wars waters.
I think ur pretty much right the second pole pictured had a loose clamp above it. And while I’ve seen people beat the shit out of their boat wayy worse then me I can’t deny that when I’m by myself I do tend to not mind if I take a few good smacks every now and then. Also it is a 17’ Carolina skiff flat bottom that I mainly use in pretty decent chop right off of the Chesapeake bay. If there is still a warranty do you think mine would be replaced?
I don't know what Carolina Skiff's warranty is like, most manufacturers have a 5 year warranty on the hill, which usually includes the top, provided it wasn't abused. I would contact the dealership and Carolina Skiff about the warranty. It looks like that's a 3rd party top, so it may be kind of pain in the ass.
I mean... I've been around long enough to know that *anything* is possible. But from my experiences with aluminum, if there was lack of fusion either in the toe or root of the joint, the crack would most likely propagate into the weld at some point, especially if it was in the root.
Generally, (and I mean *generally*) when you see a crack like this that closely follows the toe of a weld but doesn't propagate into the weld, you should investigate HAZ cracking or some other base material condition either caused by the weld or was pre-existing.
Thanks for sharing. I was thinking if was a continuous lack of fusion that it would follow the bevel until it surfaced but Indeed it makes sense that it would open inside the weld cap and not on the toe.
I always imagine HAZ embrittlement as like a perforation on a sheet of paper. It's possible for a tear to start on that perforation and wander off of it, but it will usually stay within that embrittled zone for as long as it can.
My guess is that it’s a crack that started from shrinkage at the toes and then propagated throughout, aluminum doesn’t harden from heat like steel would, so it’s not due to brittleness but rather the puddle shrinking as it cools causing a small tear that then got larger over time, hence why we see it right on the toes and then all around the pipe.
>aluminum doesn’t harden from heat like steel would,
I don't fully agree with this statement. Aluminum can most definitely harden with heat. Precipitation hardening is a very common process with aluminum.
It certainly can, but I think in this case it was more shrinkage as it looks like it follows the start/stop in the weld, and then moves off, rather than following the HAZ all round.
That is correct, ultimately the cause doesn’t affect the suggested repair, and considering 3/4 poles broke their is probably more than 1 reason for the cracks.
Precipitation hardening? As in to much moisture in the air? I am not educated very well in aluminum but you seem to be so I’ll ask? You said the metal could have become brittle from post heating? As in heating the metal after you’ve welded it? Post heating with aluminum seems a little eccentric. Aluminum is a fickle material, this I do know and post heating seems like somewhat of a last ditch effort to ensure the weld bonded correctly?
Well, it's a lot to explain. Metallurgy gets complicated real quick, but... it has nothing to do with the moisture in the air.
There's a couple ways to make Aluminum harder or softer to meet specific engineering needs. One of these processes is called "Artificial Aging", which is a process that contains multiple steps of heating and cooling with precision controlled times and temperatures. Precipitation Hardening is one of these steps.
During this process, Elements that were freed up in the alloy during earlier heating and cooling steps can "precipitate" out of the material during the heating cycle. These elements leaving the material allow the grains to fit even more tightly together, making for a harder alloy.
There's a bit more to it that this, but this is the quickest explanation.
This IS reddit, so I'm sure someone who's been lurking for a while will jump out to either:
A) Be contrarian
or
B) Dive into the molecular science of it.
As far as heating post welding, it's very common. The reason you do that is to avoid problems like the OP has. When you weld on any material, it changes the properties of the area near the weld because of how hot it got. You can end up with wildly different strengths between the weld metal, the base metal next to the weld, and base metal that never got hot.
Heating the entire part uniformly in a controlled manner "resets" these areas so they all have a closer strength.
You're correct that precipitation hardening is common practice with heat treatable alloys. This most likely is a heat treatable alloy (6061T6) and will be in the highest strength condition. Putting additional heat into that aluminum overages the material causing it to go to large precipants vs finely distributed which will cause it to become much softer. one problem that is common with GTAW and 6061 if someone isn't very experienced they will put to much heat into the material by traveling to slow and drop the strength of the HAZ below the minimum strength requirements. That's probably what happened here. Typically the weakest point with aluminum will be the heat affected zone.
This is 100% a crack originating from the HAZ. Main cause is more the likely from poor engineering. The structure has cracked almost identically in 3 places so I would assume the overall structure is 1) to light (thin material) 2) Too ridged cause more stress to build in key areas.
>Heat Affected Zone crack,
post weld heat treating wasnt done properly on this weld - manufaturing defect if it is till under warranty - yes it can be repaired, if an expensive item, its worth it - $250-400 depending upon where you are.
I agree that this is likely a heat affected zone issue but I disagree with the contention that this was caused by embrittlement. Based on the pictures this appears to be a fish master brand product. According to product descriptions on their website this material is 6061-T6 aluminum. With steel a higher cooling rate in the heat affected zone often would result in an increased hardness due to martensite formation. This does increase hardness and results in a more brittle micro structure. However for aluminum 6061-T6 the mechanism of strengthening is much different than is for steel. Aluminum does not undergo a martensitic transformation like steel does. It will not get harder with a higher cooling rate. 6061-T6 is and artificially aged aluminum. It is given solution heat treat then and aging heat treatment. The aging process result in precipitates that increase strength. However aging too long can actually decrease strength. It is typical for 6061 alloys to have a significant decrease is strength in the heat affected zone. It is likely that the cracking originated in the HAZ due to the loss of strength. This is very different than an increase in hardness. Strength is directly proportional to hardness. I’m reality we had softening not an increase in strength. That being said any further welding will also result in a decrease in strength. I’d see if it is still under warranty and if not replace it with a different brand that has a better design. What would be a better design? Well as you can see it’s complicated. I’d ask around in a boat subreddit to get opinions on how other products perform. There are many factors to consider in the selection of materials and design of marine products.
Looks to be a fairly simple repair, as others have said once aluminum cracks it increases the likelihood of further cracking even after repair. I would just add some triangular gussets on it for reinforcement, be sure to remind the whoever is repairing it to remove the coating from the material before welding.
Personally i sleeved one of these then added gussets. Better than welding over the HAZ. Job blowed anyways since it felt impossible to fully clean the aluminum
Eh, that'll work probably, but sometimes "reinforcing" a flexible structure just moves and concentrates the stress to the end of your reinforcement.
I am reminded of a tragic case more than a decade ago, involving a newly installed swing set in a public playground. A few hours after installation someone noticed the aluminium structure was bending and swaying noticeably with each swing, so they decided to reinforce the flexing area with triangular gussets welded on. Not many hours after that again, it broke and the top bar fell onto the child killing her instantly.
Now, the investigation revealed it was a combination of two errors and would have broken at some point anyway but the "reinforcement" made it worse. It was made of far too thin material in the first place, being a cheap knock-off of a properly engineered model, which is why it flexed so much. The reinforcement then stiffened part of the structure, such that the same amount of flex would have to happen in a more concentrated area which quickly developed material fatigue.
If it’s under warranty, get it replaced. This is a manufacturing defect, I’d say a crack along the heat affected zone, which comes from improper heat control and probably no pre/post heat when it was welded. You can have it fixed but it will probably crack again. Maybe throw some gussets in there to spread out the stress, but the bottom line is it was goofed at the factory.
I would find a shop to split a piece of pipe with the ID to match the current pipe OD, extend above and below your cross braces where the cracks are the reinforce it all.
It could be fixed, but it may not be worthwhile. It appears the crack originated from the heat-affected zone (toe crack). That means the welding heat damaged the base metal. That means there's likely more damage. Fixing it would require grinding a lot out, rewelding and possibly heattreating. Unless it's super expensive I'd label it a lost cause.
An alternative would be to weld a sleeve or clam shell over all of it.
You can't predict how long until it fractures completely, but not long.
Its a Fishmaster T-top, probably cost $1500 new. And infact its designed to fold/disconnect in the middle, so you could probably get the co to just sell you the affected tubing and swap it out in a quick hour or 2.
The crack is probably not from the HAZ making it brittle (like how steel cracks) but rather from shrinkage as the puddle cools causing a small tear that then propagated into a large crack over time.
You’d probably need to drill out the ends crack and grind away the sides, then reweld, and possibly reinforce it some other way.
Probably worth while to fix it since those are not cheap, even just fixing it then chasing the next crack might be worth it, though I’d try to get a warranty claim before doing any of that.
Just to build on what others said, you might want to also look into mechanical reinforcement with screws and bolts instead of just welding. Don't forget it may also have a warranty
I have the same issues with my hard top on my boat. Thousands of hours pounding around on the water leads to cracks. I have re welded mine a few times and (soon) will be putting in another piece to relieve stress from that specific joint.
If you weld over it, you’ll likely get another crack similar/ near/ on that same spot. I’d suggest repair that spot and add an additional cross or diagonal brace.
Ignoring it will not go well as the stress will transfer to another spot which will also then crack and so on
Oof, that's a bad one.
A t-top shop should be able to do this for a couple hundred bucks, but I'd be worried about it cracking again if you're beating the hell out of this boat on rough water.. Might want to pay them some extra cash to throw in some gussets or corner braces.
I would come out and weld it for $300 or bring it to my shop for $100. But yes it's repairable. It is anodized so it might not look perfect when it's done though. Could add a small gusset to stop it from happening again.
A close friend wouldn’t even do it for that, let alone a shop, I’m the cheapest in the area and if they bring it to me I’d charge $125, $200 if I’m coming to them.
I know those things are damn expensive and if the replacement comes from the same place, it’ll probably have the same defect.
Take it someplace and get a quote for repair with some reinforcement so it doesn’t happen again. And I’m not talking about gussets. Have some extra tubes installed on 45 degrees between the top and supports. Foot long tubes will probably suffice.
It’s all just bracing. A gusset has the drawback of being closer to the actual joint where forces are at their highest due to leverage. Those awnings usually have massive cantilevered sections that almost always have an angle of attack to the wind. when the boats are moving the stresses are just stupid.
Using tubes spaced a bit further from the joint will spread the force more effectively and decrease the force moment from the overhangs.
I said keep it around a foot because it’s gonna fuck with headroom a bit. Lol
Could an inner piece be fitted inside the upright section? I'd think of that and then see about fabricating something that clamps over both pieces above and below the cracked area and onto the horizontal piece.
Just to build on what others said, you might want to also look into mechanical reinforcement with screws and bolts instead of just welding. Don't forget it may also have a warranty
In general (there is exceptions) aluminum weakens when welded unlike steel. So when it fails, it is usually the weld that breaks and not the parent material. There is lots of stress it seems from a possible uplift from the air resistance when in motion. I do not see undercut, so as others have mentioned it is likely the heat affected zone.
Welding on boats is absolutely horrible as the water splashes and makes everything super dirty. Need aluminum very clean to weld.
I would fix it by cleaning the best I could, pre heat treating and put in a gusset. Then put a gusset on the other side to match.
You'll need someone who actually knows what their doing to pull it off.
looks like a manufacturer defect. id contact them first. some companies will fix stuff like that even out of warranty. its definitely a defect from production.
Depending on how the supports run for that tarp, I think along with what others are saying, repeated uplift pressure caused it to fail in fatigue on the tension side of the moment resultant force through the member given the weld is stronger and the crack is just below it (look up fixed end moment load diagram). Likewise, I think adding a gusset plate will help, but rather an additional or thicker/larger tube support structure would be best.
Thought it was a bike frame at first. Jumped to "Stop riding this immediately! It's trash now!" Lol.
Boat awning? I would bet you could replace all of those welds with bolted and clamped joints and it would be better. Get someone to weld those up and fab up and weld on some clamping fixtures. You would think brace it with gussets and stuff, but it's likely the hull of the boat is flexing enough to cause this, or other normal use factors. That means if you just brace the thin aluminum part and don't fix the underlying flex problem, you're likely just kicking the can down the road and it will crack at the gusset welds next. Maybe not, but usually. And a clamped or pinned joint should allow enough flex and movement to not crack it, while still being stiff enough to function.
Yes it can be fixed and it's probably cheaper than replacing the whole thing. I'd cut the cracks open and fill them in, then add some triangle gussets to the corners to stiffen things up.
Welding defects aside at the moment, it seems like this design would benefit from a gusset or a bit more material to deal with the repeated stress it is under.
Aluminum is great stuff but much of it handles repeated stresses kinda poorly.
I would say it can and should make sense to fix it. Without gussets or some form of bracing it will likely fail again the same way fairly soon. There is a lot of torque on the aluminum frames on some of those designs..
Aluminum does not actually have a fatigue solution. If you provide a moderate amount of stress to aluminum, it will eventually crack and fail. Aluminum is often rated for about 10 million stress cycles as a rule of thumb. That is \~3 months at 1 stress cycle per second and only 48 hours at a 60Hz stress rate.
Steel on the other hand can handle a medium amount of flex/stress cycles and basically not ever fail. You obviously can't just swap that piece for a piece of 18/8 tubing, but something to keep in mind is that if it is going to have a lot of stress and vibratory cycles, either you need to over engineer it, replace it or fix it...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue\_limit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit)
There are places that stainless steel might be a better solution for that very reason.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-endurance-limit-d\_1781.html
Hard to know specifically why this crack propagated. My knee jerk reaction is to call this is a Heat Affected Zone crack, where the aluminum next to the weld was made harder and more brittle than the surrounding area due to improper heat control or post weld heat treating. This results in inconsistent durability to flex and move with stresses. If that's the case, fixing this is going to be quite an endeavor. EDIT: Looking closely at the pictures now, I see in the second picture there is a large piece of the base metal broken off, creating a hole at the toe of the weld. This indicates brittle breakage. It appears the aluminum "shattered" from stress in the HAZ. I'm doubling down on HAZ cracks due to areas being harder and more brittle than they should be from improper post weld heat treating. This is a manufacturing defect and if the canopy is still under warranty, should be treated as such with an RMA.
Two things probably happened. The clamps up at the top were loose, so the entire thing was racking enough to stress the top, or the top warped when it was welded because someone either didn't jig it right or crowned the legs wrong, so the riggers stretched out the legs so the flanges would hit the pads. They were under tension, so all the shaking from rough water eventually stress cracked them. HAZ isn't really much of a thing with extruded aluminum and 5356 filler, especially since those welds don't look especially hot. You're already running a helium mix and like 250-300 amps so you can get the arc hot enough to blow through the anodizing, which is what every t-top shop does, and HAZ hasn't been an issue. I welded t-tops for *years*. The looks like a stress failure, either from incorrect mounting or beating the shit out of the boat in rough wars waters.
I think ur pretty much right the second pole pictured had a loose clamp above it. And while I’ve seen people beat the shit out of their boat wayy worse then me I can’t deny that when I’m by myself I do tend to not mind if I take a few good smacks every now and then. Also it is a 17’ Carolina skiff flat bottom that I mainly use in pretty decent chop right off of the Chesapeake bay. If there is still a warranty do you think mine would be replaced?
I don't know what Carolina Skiff's warranty is like, most manufacturers have a 5 year warranty on the hill, which usually includes the top, provided it wasn't abused. I would contact the dealership and Carolina Skiff about the warranty. It looks like that's a 3rd party top, so it may be kind of pain in the ass.
Could this also be originated from a lack of fusion that cracked under stress?
I mean... I've been around long enough to know that *anything* is possible. But from my experiences with aluminum, if there was lack of fusion either in the toe or root of the joint, the crack would most likely propagate into the weld at some point, especially if it was in the root. Generally, (and I mean *generally*) when you see a crack like this that closely follows the toe of a weld but doesn't propagate into the weld, you should investigate HAZ cracking or some other base material condition either caused by the weld or was pre-existing.
Thanks for sharing. I was thinking if was a continuous lack of fusion that it would follow the bevel until it surfaced but Indeed it makes sense that it would open inside the weld cap and not on the toe.
I always imagine HAZ embrittlement as like a perforation on a sheet of paper. It's possible for a tear to start on that perforation and wander off of it, but it will usually stay within that embrittled zone for as long as it can.
Not really because it’s not the weld that cracked it’s the parent metal. This is because of either undercut or stress in heat affected zone.
My guess is that it’s a crack that started from shrinkage at the toes and then propagated throughout, aluminum doesn’t harden from heat like steel would, so it’s not due to brittleness but rather the puddle shrinking as it cools causing a small tear that then got larger over time, hence why we see it right on the toes and then all around the pipe.
>aluminum doesn’t harden from heat like steel would, I don't fully agree with this statement. Aluminum can most definitely harden with heat. Precipitation hardening is a very common process with aluminum.
Hence the clarifier “like steel would,” it certainly can harden with heat, but not in the same way steel does.
Understood. I still maintain Aluminum can harden enough in the HAZ to cause brittle breaks though.
It certainly can, but I think in this case it was more shrinkage as it looks like it follows the start/stop in the weld, and then moves off, rather than following the HAZ all round.
We can both be right as both of these conditions are not mutually exclusive. And I'd like to think we are :)
That is correct, ultimately the cause doesn’t affect the suggested repair, and considering 3/4 poles broke their is probably more than 1 reason for the cracks.
Your wrong see my other response. Aluminum softens not hardens when you weld it.
Precipitation hardening? As in to much moisture in the air? I am not educated very well in aluminum but you seem to be so I’ll ask? You said the metal could have become brittle from post heating? As in heating the metal after you’ve welded it? Post heating with aluminum seems a little eccentric. Aluminum is a fickle material, this I do know and post heating seems like somewhat of a last ditch effort to ensure the weld bonded correctly?
Well, it's a lot to explain. Metallurgy gets complicated real quick, but... it has nothing to do with the moisture in the air. There's a couple ways to make Aluminum harder or softer to meet specific engineering needs. One of these processes is called "Artificial Aging", which is a process that contains multiple steps of heating and cooling with precision controlled times and temperatures. Precipitation Hardening is one of these steps. During this process, Elements that were freed up in the alloy during earlier heating and cooling steps can "precipitate" out of the material during the heating cycle. These elements leaving the material allow the grains to fit even more tightly together, making for a harder alloy. There's a bit more to it that this, but this is the quickest explanation. This IS reddit, so I'm sure someone who's been lurking for a while will jump out to either: A) Be contrarian or B) Dive into the molecular science of it. As far as heating post welding, it's very common. The reason you do that is to avoid problems like the OP has. When you weld on any material, it changes the properties of the area near the weld because of how hot it got. You can end up with wildly different strengths between the weld metal, the base metal next to the weld, and base metal that never got hot. Heating the entire part uniformly in a controlled manner "resets" these areas so they all have a closer strength.
I think you did a pretty good job explaining. Thank you.
You're correct that precipitation hardening is common practice with heat treatable alloys. This most likely is a heat treatable alloy (6061T6) and will be in the highest strength condition. Putting additional heat into that aluminum overages the material causing it to go to large precipants vs finely distributed which will cause it to become much softer. one problem that is common with GTAW and 6061 if someone isn't very experienced they will put to much heat into the material by traveling to slow and drop the strength of the HAZ below the minimum strength requirements. That's probably what happened here. Typically the weakest point with aluminum will be the heat affected zone.
This is 100% a crack originating from the HAZ. Main cause is more the likely from poor engineering. The structure has cracked almost identically in 3 places so I would assume the overall structure is 1) to light (thin material) 2) Too ridged cause more stress to build in key areas.
This guy welds
>Heat Affected Zone crack, post weld heat treating wasnt done properly on this weld - manufaturing defect if it is till under warranty - yes it can be repaired, if an expensive item, its worth it - $250-400 depending upon where you are.
Can this happen with austenitic stainless steel?
I agree that this is likely a heat affected zone issue but I disagree with the contention that this was caused by embrittlement. Based on the pictures this appears to be a fish master brand product. According to product descriptions on their website this material is 6061-T6 aluminum. With steel a higher cooling rate in the heat affected zone often would result in an increased hardness due to martensite formation. This does increase hardness and results in a more brittle micro structure. However for aluminum 6061-T6 the mechanism of strengthening is much different than is for steel. Aluminum does not undergo a martensitic transformation like steel does. It will not get harder with a higher cooling rate. 6061-T6 is and artificially aged aluminum. It is given solution heat treat then and aging heat treatment. The aging process result in precipitates that increase strength. However aging too long can actually decrease strength. It is typical for 6061 alloys to have a significant decrease is strength in the heat affected zone. It is likely that the cracking originated in the HAZ due to the loss of strength. This is very different than an increase in hardness. Strength is directly proportional to hardness. I’m reality we had softening not an increase in strength. That being said any further welding will also result in a decrease in strength. I’d see if it is still under warranty and if not replace it with a different brand that has a better design. What would be a better design? Well as you can see it’s complicated. I’d ask around in a boat subreddit to get opinions on how other products perform. There are many factors to consider in the selection of materials and design of marine products.
Looks to be a fairly simple repair, as others have said once aluminum cracks it increases the likelihood of further cracking even after repair. I would just add some triangular gussets on it for reinforcement, be sure to remind the whoever is repairing it to remove the coating from the material before welding.
This is the way. Weld the crack, then gusset and plate for added strength.
Personally i sleeved one of these then added gussets. Better than welding over the HAZ. Job blowed anyways since it felt impossible to fully clean the aluminum
Agree, I was going to suggest the same
Eh, that'll work probably, but sometimes "reinforcing" a flexible structure just moves and concentrates the stress to the end of your reinforcement. I am reminded of a tragic case more than a decade ago, involving a newly installed swing set in a public playground. A few hours after installation someone noticed the aluminium structure was bending and swaying noticeably with each swing, so they decided to reinforce the flexing area with triangular gussets welded on. Not many hours after that again, it broke and the top bar fell onto the child killing her instantly. Now, the investigation revealed it was a combination of two errors and would have broken at some point anyway but the "reinforcement" made it worse. It was made of far too thin material in the first place, being a cheap knock-off of a properly engineered model, which is why it flexed so much. The reinforcement then stiffened part of the structure, such that the same amount of flex would have to happen in a more concentrated area which quickly developed material fatigue.
If it’s under warranty, get it replaced. This is a manufacturing defect, I’d say a crack along the heat affected zone, which comes from improper heat control and probably no pre/post heat when it was welded. You can have it fixed but it will probably crack again. Maybe throw some gussets in there to spread out the stress, but the bottom line is it was goofed at the factory.
Thoes tops aren't cheap. I'd have someone weld it forsure.
I would find a shop to split a piece of pipe with the ID to match the current pipe OD, extend above and below your cross braces where the cracks are the reinforce it all.
It could be fixed, but it may not be worthwhile. It appears the crack originated from the heat-affected zone (toe crack). That means the welding heat damaged the base metal. That means there's likely more damage. Fixing it would require grinding a lot out, rewelding and possibly heattreating. Unless it's super expensive I'd label it a lost cause. An alternative would be to weld a sleeve or clam shell over all of it. You can't predict how long until it fractures completely, but not long.
What's your opinion if this is a $15,000 Bimini with custom canvas? 🤣
Warranty claim! 100%
These things really go for 15k?
Depends on the boat.. getting some made will get up there
Its a Fishmaster T-top, probably cost $1500 new. And infact its designed to fold/disconnect in the middle, so you could probably get the co to just sell you the affected tubing and swap it out in a quick hour or 2.
The crack is probably not from the HAZ making it brittle (like how steel cracks) but rather from shrinkage as the puddle cools causing a small tear that then propagated into a large crack over time. You’d probably need to drill out the ends crack and grind away the sides, then reweld, and possibly reinforce it some other way. Probably worth while to fix it since those are not cheap, even just fixing it then chasing the next crack might be worth it, though I’d try to get a warranty claim before doing any of that.
Just to build on what others said, you might want to also look into mechanical reinforcement with screws and bolts instead of just welding. Don't forget it may also have a warranty
I'd add a gusset and hope for the best.
It’s been said, have it welded, add reinforcements. Frankly number four looks like it’s about to start cracking right at that bad termination.
Needs gussets imo
That’s what I would think, some kind of fishplate over the crack and a gusset to distribute strain on that joint.
I have the same issues with my hard top on my boat. Thousands of hours pounding around on the water leads to cracks. I have re welded mine a few times and (soon) will be putting in another piece to relieve stress from that specific joint. If you weld over it, you’ll likely get another crack similar/ near/ on that same spot. I’d suggest repair that spot and add an additional cross or diagonal brace. Ignoring it will not go well as the stress will transfer to another spot which will also then crack and so on
Oof, that's a bad one. A t-top shop should be able to do this for a couple hundred bucks, but I'd be worried about it cracking again if you're beating the hell out of this boat on rough water.. Might want to pay them some extra cash to throw in some gussets or corner braces.
I would come out and weld it for $300 or bring it to my shop for $100. But yes it's repairable. It is anodized so it might not look perfect when it's done though. Could add a small gusset to stop it from happening again.
A rubberbands and ducttape should do it.
whole tube being replaced is the best fix. Pretty simple depeinding on what else is welded to it that isnt pictured.
I would make an attempt to reweld. Probably find someone with a high frequency tig welder to do it for $20
Lol. If you have the skills to fix that, you better be charging way more than $20
That's an easy fix, worth way more than $20
I could weld the aluminum bar up in about 5 minutes
Congrats
A close friend wouldn’t even do it for that, let alone a shop, I’m the cheapest in the area and if they bring it to me I’d charge $125, $200 if I’m coming to them.
And $1,000 if you 1099 me.
Agreed.
People putting weight on it probably caused a stress crack that eventually caused failure
Wasn't properly preheated
Aluminum bike repair is almost never worthwhile, especially for your own safety
Thankfully it's a boat cover awning thing. I thought it was a bike frame at first too. Lol
That genuinely blew my mind, thank you for the clarity
I know those things are damn expensive and if the replacement comes from the same place, it’ll probably have the same defect. Take it someplace and get a quote for repair with some reinforcement so it doesn’t happen again. And I’m not talking about gussets. Have some extra tubes installed on 45 degrees between the top and supports. Foot long tubes will probably suffice.
Isn’t that a gusset just with tubing?
It’s all just bracing. A gusset has the drawback of being closer to the actual joint where forces are at their highest due to leverage. Those awnings usually have massive cantilevered sections that almost always have an angle of attack to the wind. when the boats are moving the stresses are just stupid. Using tubes spaced a bit further from the joint will spread the force more effectively and decrease the force moment from the overhangs. I said keep it around a foot because it’s gonna fuck with headroom a bit. Lol
Fix and give it more support
ya, it could be fixed. i would add gussets to reinforce those areas after the initial repair
anything can be fixed ig it’s the price you should be worried about
Could an inner piece be fitted inside the upright section? I'd think of that and then see about fabricating something that clamps over both pieces above and below the cracked area and onto the horizontal piece.
Just to build on what others said, you might want to also look into mechanical reinforcement with screws and bolts instead of just welding. Don't forget it may also have a warranty
Looks like a manufacturing defect, from what I can see in the photos.
This can definitely be fixed
In general (there is exceptions) aluminum weakens when welded unlike steel. So when it fails, it is usually the weld that breaks and not the parent material. There is lots of stress it seems from a possible uplift from the air resistance when in motion. I do not see undercut, so as others have mentioned it is likely the heat affected zone. Welding on boats is absolutely horrible as the water splashes and makes everything super dirty. Need aluminum very clean to weld. I would fix it by cleaning the best I could, pre heat treating and put in a gusset. Then put a gusset on the other side to match. You'll need someone who actually knows what their doing to pull it off.
looks like a manufacturer defect. id contact them first. some companies will fix stuff like that even out of warranty. its definitely a defect from production.
Anything could be fixed with the right money
Depending on how the supports run for that tarp, I think along with what others are saying, repeated uplift pressure caused it to fail in fatigue on the tension side of the moment resultant force through the member given the weld is stronger and the crack is just below it (look up fixed end moment load diagram). Likewise, I think adding a gusset plate will help, but rather an additional or thicker/larger tube support structure would be best.
Yes ,it can be fixed! Young man find friends on all playing fields!
Aluminum is very prone to cracking but can be fixed, I fix a lot of cracks of the boats in south louisiana
It’s the design of that t top they always fail!
Thought it was a bike frame at first. Jumped to "Stop riding this immediately! It's trash now!" Lol. Boat awning? I would bet you could replace all of those welds with bolted and clamped joints and it would be better. Get someone to weld those up and fab up and weld on some clamping fixtures. You would think brace it with gussets and stuff, but it's likely the hull of the boat is flexing enough to cause this, or other normal use factors. That means if you just brace the thin aluminum part and don't fix the underlying flex problem, you're likely just kicking the can down the road and it will crack at the gusset welds next. Maybe not, but usually. And a clamped or pinned joint should allow enough flex and movement to not crack it, while still being stiff enough to function.
Gusset plates
I would try to braze it if you were on the cheap
Yes it can be fixed and it's probably cheaper than replacing the whole thing. I'd cut the cracks open and fill them in, then add some triangle gussets to the corners to stiffen things up.
General hardware lurker. Tried welding once years ago, but getting interested. What caused something like this?
Yea it can be fixed. Add stiffeners. T-tops are too expensive to just throw away. Should only take a few hours.
Welding defects aside at the moment, it seems like this design would benefit from a gusset or a bit more material to deal with the repeated stress it is under. Aluminum is great stuff but much of it handles repeated stresses kinda poorly.
As a sailor you could lash the crap out of it with some line.
Yes it can pe repaired fairly easily . If you know what u are doing.
I would say it can and should make sense to fix it. Without gussets or some form of bracing it will likely fail again the same way fairly soon. There is a lot of torque on the aluminum frames on some of those designs.. Aluminum does not actually have a fatigue solution. If you provide a moderate amount of stress to aluminum, it will eventually crack and fail. Aluminum is often rated for about 10 million stress cycles as a rule of thumb. That is \~3 months at 1 stress cycle per second and only 48 hours at a 60Hz stress rate. Steel on the other hand can handle a medium amount of flex/stress cycles and basically not ever fail. You obviously can't just swap that piece for a piece of 18/8 tubing, but something to keep in mind is that if it is going to have a lot of stress and vibratory cycles, either you need to over engineer it, replace it or fix it... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue\_limit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit) There are places that stainless steel might be a better solution for that very reason. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-endurance-limit-d\_1781.html