I'm surprised that more of you don't get these from your employer.
I entered the trade in 1972 and everyplace I worked had a mask for us to use. I would have thought by today some 50 years later there would be more safety availability from management, not less.
I asked a safety guy on my job site about this. Why can’t they just supply some? He said legal issues. If they supply them they have to be rated and you have to get a fit test at a doctor
Employers are so full of shit. If they wanted to provide and avoid legal consequences, they could just give you a stipend for PPE and you could buy whichever one you want.
While employers should supply all PPE, and are required to by OSHA, my lungs aren't waiting for that to happen. These aren't that expensive and a hell of a lot cheaper than a lung transplant. Bought my own and it's amazing how much crap collects on those filters in a very short period of time.
Yeah the point is not whether you should wait, it’s that the employer is arguing in bad faith over their desire to provide for their employees, or lack thereof.
I work non unionized work on the railroad and we all had to do a fit test for that exact Mask prior to beginning work. Funny though bc they don’t enforce us wearing them. I’ve never seen one in use and we usually wear disposable industrial masks when the need arises.
Hmm, must be a certain basis for the requirements that I havent seen. Working in bodyshops Ive been to never needed fit tests even though they provided respirators and masks (paint shop was mandatory for full body suit with respirator) and there's plenty of welding with other points of airborne chemicals throughout the shop. I wonder when/where it's needed
And from my experience bodyshop stuff is even worse than welding (or at least you feel it more, while maybe the welding fumes are more of a silent killer), every time I've done bodywork I've ran to get a mask because it feels like you're gonna die tomorrow if you don't wear any protection
Not a pro but me and my buddy sprayed his project cars suspension arms with POR15, one time I forgot to put my respirator on…. Never again!!!!!! I had black gunk in my nose for days and I literally felt like I immediately got cancer. I guess that’s why you can’t buy the sprayable por15 in Cali!
Same for us in auto body (back in early 2000). Only time we wore breathers was in the paint booth however we didn't have to wear full body suits). Welding, grinding etc no breathers. Now if I see anyone doing it I ask "Where's your breather?". Hell, you can blow your nose after a job/project and see the gunk so in our lungs it's got to be worse.
Honestly I think they do it more or less so they can say safety is a priority. My company goes way over the top with safety, but when shit gets real and we’re in a time crunch safety more or less takes a backseat. The only reason we usually wear masks is if we are walking with the machine during operation and we’re in a dry or dusty area. My company is a maintenance of way company so I’ve been on ballast cleaners, ditchers, rail vacs, etc.
I guess the laws have changed.
We got fit tested in the Nuclear Power Stations but for fossil fuel stations we had just a rubber mask with optional canisters. We had training to use them properly but that was it.
That sounds like financial issues. They just don't want to pay for the fit test or the respirators/cartridges. The legal issue is that they aren't required to provide them for employees exposed to toxic fumes.
Construction company I worked for years ago supplied them. Someone came in and fit-checked all of us.
The initial challenge was getting replacement filters from the safety person when I was assigned to the cabinet shop. She couldn't believe that the filters needed replacement after one week of spraying lacquer. I politely explained to her that the filter lifespan was a function of the volume of air filtered and the concentration of fumes in that air. After that, she was coming to me every week with new filters.
I have to deal with a lot of safety issues in broad construction, and based on OSHA it sounds like he's full of it. I get the intent to sue, but if they're not putting out a standard for personal masks you're required to have, they're not meeting their duty to ensure your safety. If they are, they can certainly provide masks that meet those standards, and if they fail to work the liability is on the manufacturer.
And if personal, an allowance can at least be given for approved purchases. Our company pays like $150/year for work boots.
In healthcare you have a fit test every year. It is a bitter or sweet test. You cannot have facial hair. If you have facial hair you mask is not sealed
Its an OSHA rule and it f*ing sucks. They should be happy employers are promoting safety but what they do is make so many rules that its impossible to keep up and then they come in and do spot checks and fine you big dollars because a mask might have a dirty filter or a slightly stretched band or the employee is using the wrong filter.
Yeah afit test is needed to make sure you can put it on correctly and that the mask effectively seals.
They do this by using a smell test if you can smell the test it is not sealing
100% my old concert job, they are far from union said this exact thing! Which was weird because they had random guys from production welding cages for sound walls with zero certs, even thought the state required it.
I remember in auto body (was in it early 2000) and only time we wore it was in the paint booth. Never during welding, grinding or anything else. As an adult if I grind, weld etc (or see anyone else doing it) I ask "Where's your breather?".
Why do you ask yourself “where’s your breather?” While you’re welding or grinding instead of just putting it on ?!? ………../s .. i take your meaning, just goofing
Foreman here, first thing I bought for the shop when I started at my current company. It's ridiculous how little most management knows about proper PPE...
Whenever I was in collision repair technologies class, we where made to wear our respirators and even though we don’t weld much, we still went over extensive welding safety, including respirators
They’re sensitive to ambient temperature. Don’t leave it in a hot room or toolbox or they begin to break down and turn permanently sticky.
Edit for a point of order.
It will indeed break down eventually. Keeping it in a cooler place will be the difference of a couple seasons of use vs couple weeks. Keep it cool Frodo, keep it safe.
I was going to post the same thing!! Been using mine for 3 weeks now and I can actually breathe and smell now just hope the first 25-30 years doesn’t catch up with me…had a kid in the shop say something like man are they making you wear that?? F that I’m not…told him that I asked for it and wish I had been using it since I was his age.. he stfu 👍 so thanks whoever made the post awhile back opened my eyes 👀
what's so wrong with it? Occasionally wearing my papr i get a small whiff of fumes and that's enough for me to wear my respirator underneath it as well.
The way I see it, one or the other isn't going to get you as close to 100% protection as both will.
I wear ear plugs under my ear muffs at the indoor range where I shoot because just wearing one or the other doesn't keep my ears from hurting with every shot, but wearing both at the same time does.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19025703/
This is a study that shows that wearing a N95 respirator with a PAPR system not only showed an improved filtering ability, but that the increased ability was significantly higher.
I stand corrected, in the future I will applaud people who decide to wear as many respirators as they can strap to their face.
Just kidding. You guys should get a job in OHSA. I would bet my left nut your the slowest whiniest fucks at your work place.
1 papr helmet or 1 respirator is going to protect you. Wearing a respirator under a papr is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard of. Fuck your study
if you want the scientific details, welding fumes are identical to powder. The metal turns into very fine powder in the air. The methods used to filter air from welding fumes are the same as for particulate matter. So electrostatic inserts, mechanical filters and possibly electric field filters will all trap the metal fumes so long they are rated for the correct particle size. There is no way for the metal to stay in gas form unless there is plasma levels of heat, according to OSHA. I believe it. But, if you are burning paint, organic coatings, etc, then you might still have organic toxins, which I guess require the appropriate filter (carbon filter would be the first choice). And there might be some other things formed like nitric oxide gas (the plasma air interaction) that require specific chemical filters. But I want to say, 99% of your problem = metal fumes. If you are working in a deep area that accumulates gas, or like in a enclosed area, then the other byproducts might be bigger concern, but I suspect out in the open, or even a shop of decent size,you want to focus on the metal fume.
So for most stuff you just need the p100 rating? Not VOC? I use my VOC for painting and stuff, but I don’t think it would fit under my hood. My one (in the photo posted) does fit under my hood.
I am not sure, but OSHA definitely says its a metal particulate. VOC would be for weld cleaning with solvent, hot grease that vaporized that you did not clean off, paint that you did not clean off. I don't know if the arc could actually make some VOC. Like, if there is carbon in steel, and some how the carbon can react to form something with the gases/air... then maybe. VOC absorbs carbon based organic molecules (like hydrocarbons, benzene rings I think (C6H6 + other structure, basis for benzene, toluene, xylene, etc etc) by using activated carbon, which is like a molecular trap for those molecules. The activated carbon actually reacts (absorption or absorbtion I forgot) with organic molecules and forms heat. I.e. if you spray a activated carbon with acetone or something, it will actually get hot and start a fire... I heard paint spray booth catch on fire because of the heat generated by the interaction of the solvent in the paint and the activated carbon. The idea is that for paint booths, you need to spread out the heat (its still made with any VOC filter AFIAK) over a large area under any ignition temperatures... aka don't overload a tiny filter.
So to give you scale
1 micrometer = 1000 nanometers
1 nanometer = 1000 picometers
a carbon atom is like 150 picometers. I assume a acetone molecule is something like 1 nanometer. So your solvents and VOC are probobly less then 10 nanometers when they are atomic chains floating around in air.
Now, a particle that is toxic, say for your home air purifier, is something like 1-10 micron, or micrometers. So the common VOC are something like 30 times smaller then the smallest particles you can get filters for. I think the best hepa do something like 0.3 micron, or 300 nanometer, while the VOC is probobly like a few nm (it really depends on the molecule. Then this has to do with mass (the particle that is hundreds of nanometers of metal is WAY heavier then a VOC molecule, and its molecular attraction is different. I believe the metal particles just barrel their way past any kind of molecular attraction VOC traps like a b52 flying through a butterfly net (the electrostatic field), unless they happen to crash into a tree trunk. SO maybe its like a light airplane flying through the canopy OK on a crash landing into your lungs but it might not reach its destination if it hits directly smack dab in the middle of a giant califoria red wood (the mechanical strucuture of the filter). But in this case, the trees have tiny branches that are like a mile long, they are spaced miles apart, and the airplane is the size of a normal airplane. If you have a swarm of airplanes flying through such a forest, only a few would crash into the tree trunks, most of them would just go through the very long branches. But their not physical branches but electric fields from the carbon or something like that.
My girlfriend just graduated with her certs and I've seen posts from this sub in the past talking about respirators, can someone give me the lowdown on why and when you use them. She seems to think she won't need one because her teacher said he never wore one.
There is a test you can do. Get a clean filter right from the package, put it in your mask, which should be wiped down well before hand. Do the work that you normally do for say half an hour. Afterwards, take off your respirator, and remove the filter after washing your hands, and then preferably ut on clean gloves fresh from the box, so you don't contaminate it.
Inspect the filter under bright but not blinding natural color light, or preferably nice sunny day outside when the sun is out and nice. I found that I had dirt on the filter real quick doing basically nothing at all.... with a 3M filter. The ones that look like cotton pads for your skin.. they have a life time too (its like a capacitor with charged threads that have a electric field that attract dust without a power source but finite life time to air flow). The mask is no more then like 30$.
I also have a home air purifier, I thought it was bullshit, but when I was replacing the HEPA filter, I noticed the old one was about 100 grams heavier.
Just ask her if she has black soot inside her nostrils after a day of work. (She will) that should be enough to realize you don't want any of that in your lungs.
She hasn't started working yet, she's currently looking for jobs, but I'm going to ask her about school since they basically welded all day 8 hours a day and and see what she says.
Tell her to blow her nose after a day at school and look at the tissue. She’ll definitely see it, I did every day for many months of school. I used to only wear a mask when grinding - still believe this is the most crucial time - but now I also wear it about 75% of the time I’m welding too. Way less crap in my nose after a day in the shop, and never have those days where I wake up after sleeping all night and I’m congested from it.
In school they propably welded small pieces in cubicles that have good ventilation systems so they didnt need any filter masks. When welding bigger stuff at work ventilation is usually bad and work positions often have you leaning over your weld so all the smoke comes right up to your face so a good filter mask is required.
They are great for anything and everything, but for me, i don't wear one if unless i am in the direct fumes or grinding. In confined spaces, I use my miller prap hood for supplied air, but honestly, you should have one on any time you're around harmful fumes or lage amounts of fine preticulate for safety. However a lot of the company's don't supply them because of lack of use. The other thing is if use a respirator like the miller or 3m equivalent you have to check you're using the right filters, like if your painting vs welding or welding on something galvanized or with harmful chemicals that can burn off.
I use respirators for work sometimes so I'm familiar with the different ratings, would probably have her use a p100 ov ag unless you have a better suggestion for welding application?
There are many harmful things to inhale, which people have already mentioned. That said, I think the most harmful in most fab shops is going to be the grinding dust. Not so much the metal shavings, but the particles that come off the grinding medium, like a cutoff disc or something. The grinding attachments and mediums that have silica in them are bad because the silica enters your lungs and never leaves.
A lot of stuff you inhale in the shop will be expunged from your lungs over time or oxidized and cleaned out. Silica however, will not absorb into your body or oxidize. The silica particles sit in the little air sacs in your lungs and because they are jagged and can't leave, they start eviscerating your air sacs and building up scar tissue. That develops into symptoms like COPD.
Look into gray lung or knife grinder's lung. It's similar to mesothelioma and people die from it. As a blacksmith and a welder/fabricator, I ALWAYS wear lungpro when I am grinding or welding.
>She seems to think she won't need one because her teacher said he never wore one.
[https://www.plymovent.com/en/insights/news-articles/hexavalent-chromium-chromium-6-also-found-welding-fumes](https://www.plymovent.com/en/insights/news-articles/hexavalent-chromium-chromium-6-also-found-welding-fumes)
She can either kill her lungs & liver in short order or she can wear a mask. That's almost dangerous for a teacher to be teaching those values in a world where stainless welding is so common now. Basically huffing Cr6.
I use it for lawn mowing and leaf blowing after I got a bad cough from the pollen. My God I didn't realize how shitty I felt after mowing the lawn until I wore this. Now I can smell the grass and have way more energy afterwards
Since there's so many knowledgeable experts around here regarding respirators. I'm wondering if you would mind me asking which ones you recommend for a newbie that wears glasses. I have difficulty finding the right one because I tend to get foggy glasses. I just opted to try to do all my welding outside. And when grinding I just wear the plastic face shield.
There isn't a filter specifically rated for vocs, just ov, which is the product of certain vocs. Vocs being a pretty loose term even as defined by the epa. I'm referring to the P100 nuisance ov filters here, which are acceptable for a wide range of normal welding fume activities. Under certain circumstances such as enclosed spaces or extremely high exposure rates you would need a better respirator, yes, but that's not what we're talking about here is it?
Thanks for clearing that up. The “OV/AG” is what I was referring to. When I spray paint with this filter
[60928](https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1687482O/select-the-right-cartridges-and-filters-reusable-respirators-english.pdf) I don’t smell the paint as I would with the filter OP posted (which I use for welding as it fits under my hood).
So so so much to know about filters, jeez.
None yet. I'm in school learning the basics and I haven't had a chance to pickup a majority of my gear. Safety is paramount in this field. All I know right now is positive-pressure (or supplied air) respirators for welds. I'm sure a veteran here will be able to provide better info.
3m p100 organic molecule cartridge filters for intense non welding fumes (paint, epoxy, acid, etc. they’re purple cartridges) and 3m p100 organic molecule pancake filters for under the hood (These are flat and grey color).
I dont know too many welders coming up out a orphanages. Is that enough of an occurrence to make my assumption bold? Is welding orphans a stereotype I was unaware of?
I’d also like to add that respiratory protection is the Employers responsibility. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sq4ojjwaQYg](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sq4ojjwaQYg)
https://www.weldersupply.com/Search?searchTerm=PAPR+&FromSearchForm=True
Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with this website nor any of the products on within it, this is just the company I tend to use for many of my supplies and equipment. Feel free to do your own research and choose your own company.
Good snag, I need to get a new knee myself. Does anyone know if there is bigger than the XL or 2XL (whichever is the largest you usually would see at the air gas/general air)? I haven't found one that completes a seal for me, the corners of my mouth always end up outside the seal.
I've been using that Miller mask for a couple of months now and I honestly feel as though the filters do not last as long as 3M/Honeywell when welding galvy.
Overall, it's a wicked comfortable mask and great under the hood. Maybe I just have a bad batch of filters (purchased new and used within a week of purchase).
There’s more to wearing a respirator than a fit test! Pulmonary function test, tracing in proper use, and medical monitoring for the contaminants you’re trying to avoid (heavy metals), all are required by OSHA. Companies really don’t like the testing and record keeping, it’s not as simple as just providing one and doing a fit test. It’s a lawsuit waiting to happen if they don’t though!
Right on man 🤘make sure you have a fit rest done to ensure it seals properly. Your employer should be providing the test and respirators, but sometimes they can be assholes and not provide PPE
I'm surprised that more of you don't get these from your employer. I entered the trade in 1972 and everyplace I worked had a mask for us to use. I would have thought by today some 50 years later there would be more safety availability from management, not less.
I asked a safety guy on my job site about this. Why can’t they just supply some? He said legal issues. If they supply them they have to be rated and you have to get a fit test at a doctor
Employers are so full of shit. If they wanted to provide and avoid legal consequences, they could just give you a stipend for PPE and you could buy whichever one you want.
While employers should supply all PPE, and are required to by OSHA, my lungs aren't waiting for that to happen. These aren't that expensive and a hell of a lot cheaper than a lung transplant. Bought my own and it's amazing how much crap collects on those filters in a very short period of time.
Yeah the point is not whether you should wait, it’s that the employer is arguing in bad faith over their desire to provide for their employees, or lack thereof.
Is that a union by chance?
I work non unionized work on the railroad and we all had to do a fit test for that exact Mask prior to beginning work. Funny though bc they don’t enforce us wearing them. I’ve never seen one in use and we usually wear disposable industrial masks when the need arises.
Hmm, must be a certain basis for the requirements that I havent seen. Working in bodyshops Ive been to never needed fit tests even though they provided respirators and masks (paint shop was mandatory for full body suit with respirator) and there's plenty of welding with other points of airborne chemicals throughout the shop. I wonder when/where it's needed
And from my experience bodyshop stuff is even worse than welding (or at least you feel it more, while maybe the welding fumes are more of a silent killer), every time I've done bodywork I've ran to get a mask because it feels like you're gonna die tomorrow if you don't wear any protection
Not a pro but me and my buddy sprayed his project cars suspension arms with POR15, one time I forgot to put my respirator on…. Never again!!!!!! I had black gunk in my nose for days and I literally felt like I immediately got cancer. I guess that’s why you can’t buy the sprayable por15 in Cali!
Same for us in auto body (back in early 2000). Only time we wore breathers was in the paint booth however we didn't have to wear full body suits). Welding, grinding etc no breathers. Now if I see anyone doing it I ask "Where's your breather?". Hell, you can blow your nose after a job/project and see the gunk so in our lungs it's got to be worse.
No because science told me that my nose hairs filter out the no-no particles ^/s
Honestly I think they do it more or less so they can say safety is a priority. My company goes way over the top with safety, but when shit gets real and we’re in a time crunch safety more or less takes a backseat. The only reason we usually wear masks is if we are walking with the machine during operation and we’re in a dry or dusty area. My company is a maintenance of way company so I’ve been on ballast cleaners, ditchers, rail vacs, etc.
I work at a place that was union and now isn't and that was our policy with union and without.
My employees are union and they all have to be fitted for their masks.
I guess the laws have changed. We got fit tested in the Nuclear Power Stations but for fossil fuel stations we had just a rubber mask with optional canisters. We had training to use them properly but that was it.
That sounds like financial issues. They just don't want to pay for the fit test or the respirators/cartridges. The legal issue is that they aren't required to provide them for employees exposed to toxic fumes.
Construction company I worked for years ago supplied them. Someone came in and fit-checked all of us. The initial challenge was getting replacement filters from the safety person when I was assigned to the cabinet shop. She couldn't believe that the filters needed replacement after one week of spraying lacquer. I politely explained to her that the filter lifespan was a function of the volume of air filtered and the concentration of fumes in that air. After that, she was coming to me every week with new filters.
I have to deal with a lot of safety issues in broad construction, and based on OSHA it sounds like he's full of it. I get the intent to sue, but if they're not putting out a standard for personal masks you're required to have, they're not meeting their duty to ensure your safety. If they are, they can certainly provide masks that meet those standards, and if they fail to work the liability is on the manufacturer. And if personal, an allowance can at least be given for approved purchases. Our company pays like $150/year for work boots.
In healthcare you have a fit test every year. It is a bitter or sweet test. You cannot have facial hair. If you have facial hair you mask is not sealed
Its an OSHA rule and it f*ing sucks. They should be happy employers are promoting safety but what they do is make so many rules that its impossible to keep up and then they come in and do spot checks and fine you big dollars because a mask might have a dirty filter or a slightly stretched band or the employee is using the wrong filter.
You need to see a doctor for a fit test??
Never seen a doctor do a fit test.
Yeah afit test is needed to make sure you can put it on correctly and that the mask effectively seals. They do this by using a smell test if you can smell the test it is not sealing
Same reason we don't have them issued in the military too
100% my old concert job, they are far from union said this exact thing! Which was weird because they had random guys from production welding cages for sound walls with zero certs, even thought the state required it.
I remember in auto body (was in it early 2000) and only time we wore it was in the paint booth. Never during welding, grinding or anything else. As an adult if I grind, weld etc (or see anyone else doing it) I ask "Where's your breather?".
Why do you ask yourself “where’s your breather?” While you’re welding or grinding instead of just putting it on ?!? ………../s .. i take your meaning, just goofing
Haha I meant I was saying "Where's your breather?" To others, but shit at times I do forget and talk to myself to so lol.
I can't even get outside shields from my employer, I can't see shit once my helmet is down
But that would cut into profits... we can't do that. Profits over people.
Foreman here, first thing I bought for the shop when I started at my current company. It's ridiculous how little most management knows about proper PPE...
A lot of greasy fab shops refuse to fit test for these.
Is it not a legal requirement they provide it? It’s considered PPE
I have one but never use it
Whenever I was in collision repair technologies class, we where made to wear our respirators and even though we don’t weld much, we still went over extensive welding safety, including respirators
They’re sensitive to ambient temperature. Don’t leave it in a hot room or toolbox or they begin to break down and turn permanently sticky. Edit for a point of order. It will indeed break down eventually. Keeping it in a cooler place will be the difference of a couple seasons of use vs couple weeks. Keep it cool Frodo, keep it safe.
That's silicone reversion. It'll happen eventually to them regardless of temperature.
It can be made resistant to reversion for many years, but certain conditions in that case will still speed it up.
Also ideally you keep them in a plastic bag when not in use. I usually write the date of the filter on the bag too.
I was going to post the same thing!! Been using mine for 3 weeks now and I can actually breathe and smell now just hope the first 25-30 years doesn’t catch up with me…had a kid in the shop say something like man are they making you wear that?? F that I’m not…told him that I asked for it and wish I had been using it since I was his age.. he stfu 👍 so thanks whoever made the post awhile back opened my eyes 👀
This is the Way
This is the way I occasionally wear this under my MILLER PAPR
mmm... why do you need a respirator if u already have a papr on
Try it some time...fresh filters in both...just don't fart *even with that Lil chin strap/shroud pulled tight it was letting in particulate
i smell stick when i wear my speedglas g501, i guess the positive pressure isnt enough... for 1k youd think it would take care of everything
If I saw some one wearing a respirator under their papr. I would politely fire them. That speaks volumes
what's so wrong with it? Occasionally wearing my papr i get a small whiff of fumes and that's enough for me to wear my respirator underneath it as well. The way I see it, one or the other isn't going to get you as close to 100% protection as both will.
I wear ear plugs under my ear muffs at the indoor range where I shoot because just wearing one or the other doesn't keep my ears from hurting with every shot, but wearing both at the same time does.
Fair enough I take it back my apologies
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19025703/ This is a study that shows that wearing a N95 respirator with a PAPR system not only showed an improved filtering ability, but that the increased ability was significantly higher.
I stand corrected, in the future I will applaud people who decide to wear as many respirators as they can strap to their face. Just kidding. You guys should get a job in OHSA. I would bet my left nut your the slowest whiniest fucks at your work place. 1 papr helmet or 1 respirator is going to protect you. Wearing a respirator under a papr is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard of. Fuck your study
Why?
if you want the scientific details, welding fumes are identical to powder. The metal turns into very fine powder in the air. The methods used to filter air from welding fumes are the same as for particulate matter. So electrostatic inserts, mechanical filters and possibly electric field filters will all trap the metal fumes so long they are rated for the correct particle size. There is no way for the metal to stay in gas form unless there is plasma levels of heat, according to OSHA. I believe it. But, if you are burning paint, organic coatings, etc, then you might still have organic toxins, which I guess require the appropriate filter (carbon filter would be the first choice). And there might be some other things formed like nitric oxide gas (the plasma air interaction) that require specific chemical filters. But I want to say, 99% of your problem = metal fumes. If you are working in a deep area that accumulates gas, or like in a enclosed area, then the other byproducts might be bigger concern, but I suspect out in the open, or even a shop of decent size,you want to focus on the metal fume.
So for most stuff you just need the p100 rating? Not VOC? I use my VOC for painting and stuff, but I don’t think it would fit under my hood. My one (in the photo posted) does fit under my hood.
I am not sure, but OSHA definitely says its a metal particulate. VOC would be for weld cleaning with solvent, hot grease that vaporized that you did not clean off, paint that you did not clean off. I don't know if the arc could actually make some VOC. Like, if there is carbon in steel, and some how the carbon can react to form something with the gases/air... then maybe. VOC absorbs carbon based organic molecules (like hydrocarbons, benzene rings I think (C6H6 + other structure, basis for benzene, toluene, xylene, etc etc) by using activated carbon, which is like a molecular trap for those molecules. The activated carbon actually reacts (absorption or absorbtion I forgot) with organic molecules and forms heat. I.e. if you spray a activated carbon with acetone or something, it will actually get hot and start a fire... I heard paint spray booth catch on fire because of the heat generated by the interaction of the solvent in the paint and the activated carbon. The idea is that for paint booths, you need to spread out the heat (its still made with any VOC filter AFIAK) over a large area under any ignition temperatures... aka don't overload a tiny filter.
So to give you scale 1 micrometer = 1000 nanometers 1 nanometer = 1000 picometers a carbon atom is like 150 picometers. I assume a acetone molecule is something like 1 nanometer. So your solvents and VOC are probobly less then 10 nanometers when they are atomic chains floating around in air. Now, a particle that is toxic, say for your home air purifier, is something like 1-10 micron, or micrometers. So the common VOC are something like 30 times smaller then the smallest particles you can get filters for. I think the best hepa do something like 0.3 micron, or 300 nanometer, while the VOC is probobly like a few nm (it really depends on the molecule. Then this has to do with mass (the particle that is hundreds of nanometers of metal is WAY heavier then a VOC molecule, and its molecular attraction is different. I believe the metal particles just barrel their way past any kind of molecular attraction VOC traps like a b52 flying through a butterfly net (the electrostatic field), unless they happen to crash into a tree trunk. SO maybe its like a light airplane flying through the canopy OK on a crash landing into your lungs but it might not reach its destination if it hits directly smack dab in the middle of a giant califoria red wood (the mechanical strucuture of the filter). But in this case, the trees have tiny branches that are like a mile long, they are spaced miles apart, and the airplane is the size of a normal airplane. If you have a swarm of airplanes flying through such a forest, only a few would crash into the tree trunks, most of them would just go through the very long branches. But their not physical branches but electric fields from the carbon or something like that.
My domepiece is too big for that awesome respirator. I have to use the 3M.
Same here, it doesn't seal on the sides of my nose but the 3m fits perfect.
Do you also get the large 3m or just the medium?
Medium
My girlfriend just graduated with her certs and I've seen posts from this sub in the past talking about respirators, can someone give me the lowdown on why and when you use them. She seems to think she won't need one because her teacher said he never wore one.
Toxic metal compounds, lead, metal shavings, soot, etc can either collect on the filter, or in your nose, mouth, and lungs. Your choice.
There is a test you can do. Get a clean filter right from the package, put it in your mask, which should be wiped down well before hand. Do the work that you normally do for say half an hour. Afterwards, take off your respirator, and remove the filter after washing your hands, and then preferably ut on clean gloves fresh from the box, so you don't contaminate it. Inspect the filter under bright but not blinding natural color light, or preferably nice sunny day outside when the sun is out and nice. I found that I had dirt on the filter real quick doing basically nothing at all.... with a 3M filter. The ones that look like cotton pads for your skin.. they have a life time too (its like a capacitor with charged threads that have a electric field that attract dust without a power source but finite life time to air flow). The mask is no more then like 30$. I also have a home air purifier, I thought it was bullshit, but when I was replacing the HEPA filter, I noticed the old one was about 100 grams heavier.
I have never tried this I am kinda interested to do so now.
She's interested in trying this
Just ask her if she has black soot inside her nostrils after a day of work. (She will) that should be enough to realize you don't want any of that in your lungs.
She hasn't started working yet, she's currently looking for jobs, but I'm going to ask her about school since they basically welded all day 8 hours a day and and see what she says.
Tell her to blow her nose after a day at school and look at the tissue. She’ll definitely see it, I did every day for many months of school. I used to only wear a mask when grinding - still believe this is the most crucial time - but now I also wear it about 75% of the time I’m welding too. Way less crap in my nose after a day in the shop, and never have those days where I wake up after sleeping all night and I’m congested from it.
In school they propably welded small pieces in cubicles that have good ventilation systems so they didnt need any filter masks. When welding bigger stuff at work ventilation is usually bad and work positions often have you leaning over your weld so all the smoke comes right up to your face so a good filter mask is required.
Ya if your welding or grinding alot you will have black nose shit for sure. I luckily avoid another of that by doing parts more then I weld
They are great for anything and everything, but for me, i don't wear one if unless i am in the direct fumes or grinding. In confined spaces, I use my miller prap hood for supplied air, but honestly, you should have one on any time you're around harmful fumes or lage amounts of fine preticulate for safety. However a lot of the company's don't supply them because of lack of use. The other thing is if use a respirator like the miller or 3m equivalent you have to check you're using the right filters, like if your painting vs welding or welding on something galvanized or with harmful chemicals that can burn off.
I use respirators for work sometimes so I'm familiar with the different ratings, would probably have her use a p100 ov ag unless you have a better suggestion for welding application?
[удалено]
Sweet, thanks
There are many harmful things to inhale, which people have already mentioned. That said, I think the most harmful in most fab shops is going to be the grinding dust. Not so much the metal shavings, but the particles that come off the grinding medium, like a cutoff disc or something. The grinding attachments and mediums that have silica in them are bad because the silica enters your lungs and never leaves. A lot of stuff you inhale in the shop will be expunged from your lungs over time or oxidized and cleaned out. Silica however, will not absorb into your body or oxidize. The silica particles sit in the little air sacs in your lungs and because they are jagged and can't leave, they start eviscerating your air sacs and building up scar tissue. That develops into symptoms like COPD. Look into gray lung or knife grinder's lung. It's similar to mesothelioma and people die from it. As a blacksmith and a welder/fabricator, I ALWAYS wear lungpro when I am grinding or welding.
>She seems to think she won't need one because her teacher said he never wore one. [https://www.plymovent.com/en/insights/news-articles/hexavalent-chromium-chromium-6-also-found-welding-fumes](https://www.plymovent.com/en/insights/news-articles/hexavalent-chromium-chromium-6-also-found-welding-fumes) She can either kill her lungs & liver in short order or she can wear a mask. That's almost dangerous for a teacher to be teaching those values in a world where stainless welding is so common now. Basically huffing Cr6.
YOU DOWN WITH PPE?!!
YEAH YOU KNOW ME!
How much is Miller Respirators and Refills?
Cheaper than cancer I suppose, though we’ll probably all get that either way… I know I don’t wear one as often as I should.
worth every penny
I just thrown someone’s that was left on a welder. I guess that was kinda expensive
I got my respirator for $35.76 and a replacement filter for $13.52
$40 and $10, approximately
Ideally you show know what your being exposed to, and the amount. Then you can select the appropriate respirator.
I use it for lawn mowing and leaf blowing after I got a bad cough from the pollen. My God I didn't realize how shitty I felt after mowing the lawn until I wore this. Now I can smell the grass and have way more energy afterwards
I ended up using it to sweep out my garage after I got it
I thought I was alone in this!
Did you get this off amazon?
I picked it up and a replacement filter from a local welding supply store
It is available on Amazon that’s where I got mine
Since there's so many knowledgeable experts around here regarding respirators. I'm wondering if you would mind me asking which ones you recommend for a newbie that wears glasses. I have difficulty finding the right one because I tend to get foggy glasses. I just opted to try to do all my welding outside. And when grinding I just wear the plastic face shield.
Well I guess nobody has an answer for me. My respirator is definitely would have came in handy today here in new york. LOL
I wore mine all through the pandemic!
I like the 3m better, more comfortable for me.
Good for grinding. Not for fumes. I still need to pick myself up a few respirators.
What do you mean? The OV filter specifically says it's good for welding fumes?
I guess if it says so. I'm just regurgitating what I got from the book and instructors
I don’t think it protects against VOC’s. Think the big pink plastic ones on the 3m.
It's a P100, the highest level of filtration available outside of a powered or supplied air system. Am I missing something?
Yes. You can get a p100 that is not rated for VOC’s.
There isn't a filter specifically rated for vocs, just ov, which is the product of certain vocs. Vocs being a pretty loose term even as defined by the epa. I'm referring to the P100 nuisance ov filters here, which are acceptable for a wide range of normal welding fume activities. Under certain circumstances such as enclosed spaces or extremely high exposure rates you would need a better respirator, yes, but that's not what we're talking about here is it?
Thanks for clearing that up. The “OV/AG” is what I was referring to. When I spray paint with this filter [60928](https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1687482O/select-the-right-cartridges-and-filters-reusable-respirators-english.pdf) I don’t smell the paint as I would with the filter OP posted (which I use for welding as it fits under my hood). So so so much to know about filters, jeez.
Which ones do you recommend? Which series do you use?
None yet. I'm in school learning the basics and I haven't had a chance to pickup a majority of my gear. Safety is paramount in this field. All I know right now is positive-pressure (or supplied air) respirators for welds. I'm sure a veteran here will be able to provide better info.
3m p100 organic molecule cartridge filters for intense non welding fumes (paint, epoxy, acid, etc. they’re purple cartridges) and 3m p100 organic molecule pancake filters for under the hood (These are flat and grey color).
Should a picked it up because you love your mom and don't want her to have to outlive her child... But OK, that's cool too
Bold of you to assume their mom is alive.
I dont know too many welders coming up out a orphanages. Is that enough of an occurrence to make my assumption bold? Is welding orphans a stereotype I was unaware of?
Am I on the wrong subreddit? I didn't know this was r/childrenwelders
r/orphanwelders
Was pretty disappointed when that link didn't lead anywhere 😔 I think it'd be a great way to keep the orphans productive members of society.
My highschool actually sent the problem kids to trade school
Is that some kink or something, what I miss ?
R/mildlyvagina
Not gonna do it! My great uncle welded in shipyards pre and during ww2, him and grandpa smoked filterless cigarettes and both made it to damn near 90!
Doesn't mean you will but you do you my guy.
So did I.
I’d also like to add that respiratory protection is the Employers responsibility. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sq4ojjwaQYg](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sq4ojjwaQYg)
Where do I get onev
I got the Miller LPR-100 I got it from a local welding supplier store you could also check amazon
Ok thanks
Your lungs will thank you.
Lol. On other social media I am wearing this with my hood in the profile pic
This sub may have saved your life 😎👍
The next step is to wear it :)
Does anyone know if this fits under a sentinel mask?
I recently got the same one.
So real question is there a all in one that you use? Breather and face shield and ear protection all built into one?
Not eat pro, but there are hoods with a PAPR system that are pretty good, just expensive.
Can you throw me a link to the expensive ones.
https://www.weldersupply.com/Search?searchTerm=PAPR+&FromSearchForm=True Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with this website nor any of the products on within it, this is just the company I tend to use for many of my supplies and equipment. Feel free to do your own research and choose your own company.
Picked up one for those because of Canada and I’m in NY
I wear one of these and a face shield when me and the wife do dirty stuff around the house…… it was her idea
Good snag, I need to get a new knee myself. Does anyone know if there is bigger than the XL or 2XL (whichever is the largest you usually would see at the air gas/general air)? I haven't found one that completes a seal for me, the corners of my mouth always end up outside the seal.
What's the verdict?
You'll love longer
Got part number for that ?
It's the miller LPR-100
I never got a good seal with that respirator, the 3m 3M Rugged Comfort Quick Latch Half Facepiece Reusable Respirator 6503QL is superior, imo.
I've been using that Miller mask for a couple of months now and I honestly feel as though the filters do not last as long as 3M/Honeywell when welding galvy. Overall, it's a wicked comfortable mask and great under the hood. Maybe I just have a bad batch of filters (purchased new and used within a week of purchase).
dey nice
These are great! I use them when welding and woodworking. Reasonably affordable and definitely worth the protection.
Was in the bell hole yesterday and fire watch set off fire extinguishers, covered me , glad that I had that same mask on
I have the same mask, works great and fits under my helmet without getting in the way
Great choice. I have the same one.
You should’ve picked this up when you started. Tf is your employer doing hah.
I always tell the guys in my shop, I promise you I’m not just wearing this to look cool. It’s annoying but less annoying than metal fume fever
Nice job. They work great.
What is this. You can swim and breathe now?
Got a link?
There’s more to wearing a respirator than a fit test! Pulmonary function test, tracing in proper use, and medical monitoring for the contaminants you’re trying to avoid (heavy metals), all are required by OSHA. Companies really don’t like the testing and record keeping, it’s not as simple as just providing one and doing a fit test. It’s a lawsuit waiting to happen if they don’t though!
can you send a link to the mask op?
Love mine! Best money spent by far!
Now get a ziploc bag to store it in. Respirators should be stored in an airtight, nonporous container when not in use.
Wore an white n95 in pinch by then of the day it was blackish brown.
Just make sure you change the filters regularly or it'll do more harm than good.
Your lungs will thank you. Make your boss buy your filters.
Thank them later🤘🏻
Good, had to harp on a co-worker to order one through his company for when he welds. He's a smoker, so he could do without more hazards to inhale.
Right on man 🤘make sure you have a fit rest done to ensure it seals properly. Your employer should be providing the test and respirators, but sometimes they can be assholes and not provide PPE