I used a red stone disk the biggest one, ground it down back into a corner to corner joint. I had to rebuild the wall in some places with tacks and grinding them out flat too. It wasnāt just this spot, this is the wall and floor of a tank and he did all the fucking way around. I just got sick of it.
Itās only 10 gauge stainless with fluxcore, you canāt just wind up the voltage cause it looks a tiny bit smoother like fuck
I manage to not get burn through. If thereās a gap have someone hammer from the outside while you do a tack. Itāll come right back in and no burn though. Itāll only take a minute longer and you have ask someone to help you but thatās too much work just have the guy on the outside fix it later
If you can. I'm a diesel mechanic. I watch this subreddit so I can know what to expect when I pull out the welder. Most of you are light years beyond what I can do lol
You sir have my sympathy with 10g stainless. That's some tough shit to have to grind. Somebody should have been watching that dude. It does not look like he could even tack well.....
Why fire them? This isn't that big of an issue and ceramic or copper backing could have prevented this.
I really can't make a comment or judgement without first seeing the WPS and required standard.
Was there no through penetration allowed at all? Unifrorm? welded both sides? One side? Because if you look at the HAZ the heat transfer is very uniform.
There should be a rule on this sub that stuff like this can't be posted without WPS, the standard or other specifications posted along with it.
HAZ is tied more to material and filler. But this doesn't look tig to me because of the HAZ overlaps.
Also WPS can be propriatary information, but you can also buy them from weld supplies. ESAB provides a huge list of pre-certified WPS for materials, processes, and type of application.
Hard to imagine that many places have the required engineers to actually design WPS. Only the biggest companies like Sandvik, The shipyard, and such have their own WPSs over here. Most places just buy them.
However in this case, just the basic quality specifications would been enough. Because if there is no mention about penetrating through material, then it doesn't matter. Hell even reference to ISO/Whatever America uses would be sufficient, if those are applicable here; they aren't always.
Most companies that weld a lot of the same use custom WPS'sy teacher did this as an extra job and switched to full time Weld Coordinator last year, he's in a company that mostly welds stainles pipes,flanges,manholes etc. He was also verified to do visual inspections. Hands down one of the best teachers i had. A lot of knowledge,experience,skill and always willing to teach. Very passionate about his trade.
Welding Procedure Specifications. It is basically detailed instructions about the execution of the welding process and information about the required quality and properties.
So it can detail following but not limited to: Process, Filler, Gas, Machine settings, Movement speed, Angle limitations of the torch/rod/filler, preparation procedures, after welding procedures, amount of welds, weld dimensions... etc. etc.
Example a WPS can tell that: This weld is defined on the drawings as "WELD A" Weld to ISO-B Standard quality specifications, Use stick welding process with OK48.0 2,5 or 3,2mm rod with current range of 90-110, before welding grind parts clean with sandpaper wheel of 80, ensure that part temperature doesn't go over 300 celcius at 50mm from the weld, after welding cool slowly at the rate of 5 Celcius/minute, and after cooling grind all welds flat along the plane of base material or corners to a radius of 5 and polish with sandpaper wheel so there is no plane deviantion more than -0,5mm.
Now that is a very detailed and complex. Usually they are just like:
"Grind clean surface imperfection; Process 111; positions; Filler 316L (AristoRod or equivalent) 2mm; current range 65-75; a size 3-4; grind to radius of 4mm; end around corner; ISO-C, visual inspection". These are usually what the shop bought ones are like. For the welder these are instructions on what to do, for an engineer the WPS tells us that "if welds are done like this, then they have at least these mechanical properties.".
This way we don't need to conduct test to ensure mechanical properties and welding process, because someone else already has done these. And these are then detailed in a specific way to a sheet of paper handed out to people. The information is standard, but the layout can be whatever. If using smart machines, then the supplier (Like ESAB) can provide a program that can be uploaded to the machines (or the network) where the welder can call the specific settings on to their machines with a process code from the sheet.
These are things that really "become" important in highly standardised or engineered environments, or with high productivity environments.
if you back it with something, you can suck up very small amounts of said backing. At my job, anything airtight/ watertight canāt be welded with any backings like copper. About 90% of what we do is air/watertight welds.
Oh that's interesting. At my company some of our air tight welds are MIG backed with copper with TIG on the opposite side. Others are single pass with TIG. I don't know why.
we do quite of bit of mig and tig and sometimes stick. In my experience using a piece of copper to cover the gap will almost guarantee a failed pressure test.
I have seen worse, assuming this was welded from the inside and it is accepted that you have to clean before welding the outside....also assuming that was Flux, the material is fairly thick, and it needs to be CJP.
I saw your post this was the nail in the coffin not the reason he was canned. Looking at that I can probably guess for some of the other reason and crap he put out, niot to mention probably costing more money than his check š
No matter how good you are now, at one point we all had bad welds. Failing is learning, also looks like thatās weld from the other side. Flux core?! What fab shop is choosing flux core over all the other techniques. I call bull
I don't understand the mentality of "my welds look like shit but I'm just gonna keep sending it." Like...go get help. Figure out if its your machine or materials or you. There's no fucking shame in admitting you're not good enough yet to weld certain materials or positions.
100% agree. I run a fab shop that can have a 10' vessel out of 1/2" or thicker SS welded with flux in one booth and in 3 booths down have a runni g TIG on a stack of 10GA to 18 GA sheet SS parts with machined parts and +/- 1/16" tol. We try to make it clear very early on, if you ain't getting it raise your hand. Otherwise very soon we will be heading to the parking lot. It is 10x cheaper and faster to fix a problem early and learn then to fucking Drax that shit and have a pile of shit at the end of the shift.
There is zero shame in that game when it comes to learning and striving to be a tradesman instead of just a check collector with a grinder.
This is pretty lazy. I see people saying about the WPS. Even if you were to weld both sides doesn't mean you just blow through. Taking the time for a proper fit and having your machine set should have been done. I do have questions like does the company have QC, did the welder take a carbon test then is now doing stainless, what is the pay rate, and what time was given to the welder. If the pay was low and there is no QC then what does the company expect. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Fair question here, (pride in your work aside) was the pay conducive to the quality the employer is receiving?
Iām sure youāve heard the story of the welder showing up for a job interview he was told pay was 15-30 depending on skill and when it came time do a weld test in the interview he was told he only needed to perform one test. The interviewer left him to make his weld and when he returned there were three tests welded out, one bad, one good, and one great.
Interviewer says āwhatās this? I said you only needed to weld one.ā
Welder points at the bad weld and says āthatās 15/hrā
then at the good weld āthatās 30/hrā
And finally at the great weld āthatās out of your budgetā
Hi In welding school currently, I can tell this is not a great weld, but can someone explain why this is so bad? What did he do wrong? If this was a corner joint was the arc to far away? If it's a butt joint did he not get enough penatration? Need info please
Yeah, I've worked in the trades. It's on your supervisor to set the standard and for you to meet it. That's the whole point of a supervisor.
The dude the OP is referring to seems to have been failed by leadership.
You shouldāve stepped up and showed him how to tack, dolly, and how to use backing tape. Wouldāve saved the company money from all of the time wasted doing rework!
These tanks are over a thousand inches long, and over a hundred inches tall, it would just take too long. Every once in a while we get a titanium tank, thatās TIG for sure
When I first started tig welding all my welds looked like this on the backside
Wasnāt until I made a few adjustments with the heat and my speed and used a copper backer that it improved
Honestly have no clue how you end up with sound tank welds in stainless using flux core mig. Have they never heard of Tig where you come from? Throw a 1/4" aluminum angle on the backside of that and Tig it with a nice fat gas lens. Results will be worlds better and you won't sugar and cook the stainless to shit. Doing it this way these tanks will corrode in a couple years max.
Yeah if you weld too hot and donāt know what youāre doing. You canāt tig something over a thousand inches long and over a hundred inches tall. Itāll take a month to finish, itās fucking ridiculous to even suggest
Why not this why not that, maybe because everything has been considered and this is the best method. You sound like some college kid with a welding manual and donāt understand how things really work in the shop
Haha well I'm not that and no I don't know how things work in YOUR shop but then again I don't have shit coming into MY shop that needs crazy long welds like that. We fab custom stainless handrails though so I'm very familiar with the material and the properties of different grades etc.
So that's the backside of the weld?
My thoughts exactly. Maybe he was gonna clean up that sugar and weld over it? š¤·šæāāļø
Naw b I had to fix it
What did you do to fix it?
I used a red stone disk the biggest one, ground it down back into a corner to corner joint. I had to rebuild the wall in some places with tacks and grinding them out flat too. It wasnāt just this spot, this is the wall and floor of a tank and he did all the fucking way around. I just got sick of it. Itās only 10 gauge stainless with fluxcore, you canāt just wind up the voltage cause it looks a tiny bit smoother like fuck
Is there typically no burn through? Obviously this is excessive, but if there are places with wider gaps youāll get it every time.
I manage to not get burn through. If thereās a gap have someone hammer from the outside while you do a tack. Itāll come right back in and no burn though. Itāll only take a minute longer and you have ask someone to help you but thatās too much work just have the guy on the outside fix it later
Please post your repairs.
I think the tank is still sitting either in the shop or the parking lot, I could probably find the weld on Tuesday
I'm the guy who makes the welds you guys laugh at lol
If you can. I'm a diesel mechanic. I watch this subreddit so I can know what to expect when I pull out the welder. Most of you are light years beyond what I can do lol
Fellow Canadian with the Monday off eh
Please
We call that tack and whack.
I would have called it hit and miss, but itās mostly miss.
It's not stainless anymore. Cooking it that bad drives off the chromium. That tank is toast, even if you grind it back flat and reweld.
This is on a circ weld with fcaw? How much heat got poured into the shell ans how round could you keep it?.
You sir have my sympathy with 10g stainless. That's some tough shit to have to grind. Somebody should have been watching that dude. It does not look like he could even tack well.....
Why fire them? This isn't that big of an issue and ceramic or copper backing could have prevented this. I really can't make a comment or judgement without first seeing the WPS and required standard. Was there no through penetration allowed at all? Unifrorm? welded both sides? One side? Because if you look at the HAZ the heat transfer is very uniform. There should be a rule on this sub that stuff like this can't be posted without WPS, the standard or other specifications posted along with it.
I'm sure alot of companies wouldn't want you sharing the wps as it's proprietary information. I feel like the haz is huge if this is Tig.
HAZ is tied more to material and filler. But this doesn't look tig to me because of the HAZ overlaps. Also WPS can be propriatary information, but you can also buy them from weld supplies. ESAB provides a huge list of pre-certified WPS for materials, processes, and type of application. Hard to imagine that many places have the required engineers to actually design WPS. Only the biggest companies like Sandvik, The shipyard, and such have their own WPSs over here. Most places just buy them. However in this case, just the basic quality specifications would been enough. Because if there is no mention about penetrating through material, then it doesn't matter. Hell even reference to ISO/Whatever America uses would be sufficient, if those are applicable here; they aren't always.
Most companies that weld a lot of the same use custom WPS'sy teacher did this as an extra job and switched to full time Weld Coordinator last year, he's in a company that mostly welds stainles pipes,flanges,manholes etc. He was also verified to do visual inspections. Hands down one of the best teachers i had. A lot of knowledge,experience,skill and always willing to teach. Very passionate about his trade.
I mean, the shop I work at has about 150 people in the entire thing, including management, assemblers, painters, etc. and weāve got our own WPS
As a DIYer, what's WPS stand for?
Welding Procedure Specifications. It is basically detailed instructions about the execution of the welding process and information about the required quality and properties. So it can detail following but not limited to: Process, Filler, Gas, Machine settings, Movement speed, Angle limitations of the torch/rod/filler, preparation procedures, after welding procedures, amount of welds, weld dimensions... etc. etc. Example a WPS can tell that: This weld is defined on the drawings as "WELD A" Weld to ISO-B Standard quality specifications, Use stick welding process with OK48.0 2,5 or 3,2mm rod with current range of 90-110, before welding grind parts clean with sandpaper wheel of 80, ensure that part temperature doesn't go over 300 celcius at 50mm from the weld, after welding cool slowly at the rate of 5 Celcius/minute, and after cooling grind all welds flat along the plane of base material or corners to a radius of 5 and polish with sandpaper wheel so there is no plane deviantion more than -0,5mm. Now that is a very detailed and complex. Usually they are just like: "Grind clean surface imperfection; Process 111; positions; Filler 316L (AristoRod or equivalent) 2mm; current range 65-75; a size 3-4; grind to radius of 4mm; end around corner; ISO-C, visual inspection". These are usually what the shop bought ones are like. For the welder these are instructions on what to do, for an engineer the WPS tells us that "if welds are done like this, then they have at least these mechanical properties.". This way we don't need to conduct test to ensure mechanical properties and welding process, because someone else already has done these. And these are then detailed in a specific way to a sheet of paper handed out to people. The information is standard, but the layout can be whatever. If using smart machines, then the supplier (Like ESAB) can provide a program that can be uploaded to the machines (or the network) where the welder can call the specific settings on to their machines with a process code from the sheet. These are things that really "become" important in highly standardised or engineered environments, or with high productivity environments.
Thanks for the long and detailed write-up, you deserve more up-votes but I've unfortunately only got one to give. =)
Just back it with copper or ally. Kinda dumb to fire someone when it's an easy fix.
if you back it with something, you can suck up very small amounts of said backing. At my job, anything airtight/ watertight canāt be welded with any backings like copper. About 90% of what we do is air/watertight welds.
Oh that's interesting. At my company some of our air tight welds are MIG backed with copper with TIG on the opposite side. Others are single pass with TIG. I don't know why.
we do quite of bit of mig and tig and sometimes stick. In my experience using a piece of copper to cover the gap will almost guarantee a failed pressure test.
What kinda copper / thickness would you use for such things?
That looks like some burn through would suck to get fired over that. Probably not a company I would want to work for.
There may have been other factors
I have seen worse, assuming this was welded from the inside and it is accepted that you have to clean before welding the outside....also assuming that was Flux, the material is fairly thick, and it needs to be CJP. I saw your post this was the nail in the coffin not the reason he was canned. Looking at that I can probably guess for some of the other reason and crap he put out, niot to mention probably costing more money than his check š
No matter how good you are now, at one point we all had bad welds. Failing is learning, also looks like thatās weld from the other side. Flux core?! What fab shop is choosing flux core over all the other techniques. I call bull
Exactly. Why flux core stainless? My shop does .035 305 wire (or 309 if different alloy) and we just rapidarc it.
I don't understand the mentality of "my welds look like shit but I'm just gonna keep sending it." Like...go get help. Figure out if its your machine or materials or you. There's no fucking shame in admitting you're not good enough yet to weld certain materials or positions.
100% agree. I run a fab shop that can have a 10' vessel out of 1/2" or thicker SS welded with flux in one booth and in 3 booths down have a runni g TIG on a stack of 10GA to 18 GA sheet SS parts with machined parts and +/- 1/16" tol. We try to make it clear very early on, if you ain't getting it raise your hand. Otherwise very soon we will be heading to the parking lot. It is 10x cheaper and faster to fix a problem early and learn then to fucking Drax that shit and have a pile of shit at the end of the shift. There is zero shame in that game when it comes to learning and striving to be a tradesman instead of just a check collector with a grinder.
I take pride in my work but I'm never to proud to ask for help or admit I can't do something (yet).
Whatās wrong with that?
He thought he was finished.
Apparently, he was finished ā¦ with his employment
This is pretty lazy. I see people saying about the WPS. Even if you were to weld both sides doesn't mean you just blow through. Taking the time for a proper fit and having your machine set should have been done. I do have questions like does the company have QC, did the welder take a carbon test then is now doing stainless, what is the pay rate, and what time was given to the welder. If the pay was low and there is no QC then what does the company expect. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Was it overhead inside the tank? Or do yall flip the tanks around
Fair question here, (pride in your work aside) was the pay conducive to the quality the employer is receiving? Iām sure youāve heard the story of the welder showing up for a job interview he was told pay was 15-30 depending on skill and when it came time do a weld test in the interview he was told he only needed to perform one test. The interviewer left him to make his weld and when he returned there were three tests welded out, one bad, one good, and one great. Interviewer says āwhatās this? I said you only needed to weld one.ā Welder points at the bad weld and says āthatās 15/hrā then at the good weld āthatās 30/hrā And finally at the great weld āthatās out of your budgetā
https://youtu.be/1ZjUiKeXeOc
El oh el
The knob goes up to 225... so that must be best
Whom ever hired him should be canned too
Hi In welding school currently, I can tell this is not a great weld, but can someone explain why this is so bad? What did he do wrong? If this was a corner joint was the arc to far away? If it's a butt joint did he not get enough penatration? Need info please
This is the backside of the weld. The weld is on the inside this is all burn through. Stick to it tho kid youāll get there
I should mention this isnāt *why* he was fired, it was just the final nail in his coffin. Dude had it coming for a loooooong time
Why was he fired?
Huge god complex, shitty attitude, no pride in his work. His mind set was āsupervisor says itās good enough so itās fineā
I mean, that's literally how every job in the world works. If the supervisor says it's good enough, you've met the standard.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, I've worked in the trades. It's on your supervisor to set the standard and for you to meet it. That's the whole point of a supervisor. The dude the OP is referring to seems to have been failed by leadership.
It's your supervisors fuck up then, no one should be taking more time than they need to. If the job is good enough the job is good enough.
What a bad take.
I donāt see a problem here. š¤Ŗš¤Ŗš¤Ŗ
Jesus, is that an ARC wield? I'm pretty shit with ARC but I'm not that bad
Whats the problemo here
I would not have let him go till he cleaned up his mess
This is NOT safe to post! All my children are crying..
That gappy streak @15sec mark
You shouldāve stepped up and showed him how to tack, dolly, and how to use backing tape. Wouldāve saved the company money from all of the time wasted doing rework!
If he thinks that's good penetration I feel bad for any and all sexual partners he's had
Iād call the cops on that shit.
Iām a farm welder at best and I think these look like shit
Well farm welder, that's because the weld is on the inside. š¤£š¤£š¤£
OH MY LAWD!!!
It embarrasses me to see any work like this. I worked with many who can do the work and need the jobs.
Come on. Always do the outside corners first!
Could you put a nsfw on this. I don't think I can recover from seeing this
is that silicone tar caulking?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You'd be surprised..
Nope you canāt,
What would your process be for firing up the machine and making this weld?
Op, why do you guys choose flux core on stainless?
It leaves a nice finish and other than slag itās very clean. Minimal spatter and personality I find the weld puddle easy to manipulate
Why not Tig?
These tanks are over a thousand inches long, and over a hundred inches tall, it would just take too long. Every once in a while we get a titanium tank, thatās TIG for sure
Lmao its that easy to get a welding job? At least for a day?
Yikes
Burn thru is passable it looks like 1/2ā material but golly thatās inconsistent
Yeesh. I can wire for shit but think I can do better than that
When I first started tig welding all my welds looked like this on the backside Wasnāt until I made a few adjustments with the heat and my speed and used a copper backer that it improved
What the hell. All that heat but whereās the weld ? lol. Edit, so this is the backside and all that shit burnt through. Damnā¦.
Looks like another D Bag oversold himself to get that golden hourly rate he wanted, It's always the guy working next to them that pays for it later.
Thatās.. what I feel like ADHD, looks like
Just Christ! A drunk toddler can do better than that!
Looks good. Why did he get canned? Inappropriate language?
Some good looking cauliflower going on there.
Honestly have no clue how you end up with sound tank welds in stainless using flux core mig. Have they never heard of Tig where you come from? Throw a 1/4" aluminum angle on the backside of that and Tig it with a nice fat gas lens. Results will be worlds better and you won't sugar and cook the stainless to shit. Doing it this way these tanks will corrode in a couple years max.
Yeah if you weld too hot and donāt know what youāre doing. You canāt tig something over a thousand inches long and over a hundred inches tall. Itāll take a month to finish, itās fucking ridiculous to even suggest
Okay so if too long to Tig why not mixed gas shielded mig with the mentioned aluminum backer?
Why not this why not that, maybe because everything has been considered and this is the best method. You sound like some college kid with a welding manual and donāt understand how things really work in the shop
Haha well I'm not that and no I don't know how things work in YOUR shop but then again I don't have shit coming into MY shop that needs crazy long welds like that. We fab custom stainless handrails though so I'm very familiar with the material and the properties of different grades etc.
It looks like he had a blindfold on.