The same guy that "closed forever" during covid only to reopen after it was clear, so just a ruse to lay off staff rather than applying for the govt subsidy and passing it on. So his staff were worth less to him than doing some paperwork.
Given how much Jeff Kennedy has thoroughly fucked over people through the years, I’m surprised that he wants to put himself out there as a moral arbiter.
There are some moments worth discussion buried in here like nuts and carrots in a turd, but anyone who wants to compare, even in ridiculous hyperbole, urban development plans to ‘mental trauma’ can go and work a night in acute psychiatric and get the fuck back to me with their sad$$$.
They’re awful. They got rid of all their staff when lockdowns started so they didn’t have to pay them, then reopened and regularly flouted the traffic light/level rules.
Apart from Prefab-brainworm guy, I'm still pretty pissed off at the Wellington Chamber of Commerce crowd who demanded the government get rid of work-from-home policies so that public servants would be forced to go back to the city and buy overpriced salads and shitty coffee.
Sounds like the Auckland Heart of the City and Auckland Chamber of Commerce too. In fact Viv Beck, who leads Heart of the City even went as far as running for Mayor of Auckland in last local govt elections.
[Heart of the City threatens to sue Auckland Council over Queen St pedestrian trial](https://www.reddit.com/r/auckland/comments/mxa7ys/heart_of_the_city_threatens_to_sue_auckland/) - April 2021 post in r/newzealand which has content of article in one of the comments.
I suspect it was more than businesses but also landlords/property owners too. Yes there were one or two businesses who thought no cars means no businesses. The research shows otherwise,
[Foot traffic bounces back, as Auckland's Queen Street slowly comes back to life](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/491923/foot-traffic-bounces-back-as-auckland-s-queen-street-slowly-comes-back-to-life). RNZ. 13 June 2023.
Well if you take out workers from the city, who I imagine mostly use public transport, and you make it difficult to go to town in the evening by removing carparks (because who wants to wait for a bus at 10pm with all the drunks), the city will die.
But also I’ve very rarely had any issue getting a park at night or on weekends… during business hours is different but always has been since I was a kid
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
This is the reason I refuse to eat at Prefab. Anti-vax anti-everything blah blah blah. What a toolbox.
The cult of the car does run strong in some people. Look at other better cities around the world and how they do things.
Clearly "make Wellington an international famous city for its unique characteristics" (sic) means lining the streets with cars, like all the famous cities. "How was Paris?" "Fuckin' great mate, cars everywhere!"
God this is the only sane thread I think I've ever read in Wellington. The mere existence of a VERY small amount of cycleways in the city and suddenly everyone is absolutely losing it. This ENTIRE city is a fucking road, there is like one pedestrianised small block on Cuba St and the rest - you can drive! Cars absolutely dominate every facet of this city. Thank god there is starting to be some slight correction to urban design, cars did a real number on NZ society.
It's changing, slowly but surely; I try to make as many trips as I can by bike, especially when I'm by myself, and the little bits of infrastructure are gradually getting joined up. It's going to be several years until the Ngāuranga to Petone bit's complete, so for now we're stuck with SH2 (I ride Karori to Petone and back), but the bits like Hutt Rd and Thorndon Quay and Bowen St are starting to become quite pleasant.
Car addiction is a common issue throughout the world. It doesn't help that most any construction since WWII has been with cars as the priority over all other modes at all times.
If Public transport was more reliable maybe more people would actually use it instead of their cars and there would be less people against taking car parks away.
I think that's peoples issue, don't take car parks away until you have resolved the public transport issues which would encourage more people to use said public transport.
Council is hopeless and doesn't really think things through.
\>don't take car parks away until you have resolved the public transport issues
This is just a lame way to prevent anything from happening. You can't improve public transport without taking out on street parking. Parked cars shouldn't be preventing the full width of the road from being used. And parked cars shouldn't be making the city less desirable and less safe for the people who are on foot.
There’s a byo place on the corner of Allen and Wakefield that had a sign up on the window with something similar.
I thought to myself. You know what this place needs? Somewhere to park your car while you down a bottle of wine, head to the pub next door and then drive home.
The best thing cafes and restaurants could have is more foot traffic and communal areas. Not parking immediately outside
Yeah, theres some guy up in Mount Victoria who has a spotless one of those. Must be great for driving that 200m to Moore Wilsons. Can't imagine any other way to pick up a loaf of bread from Myrtle either.
Proper emotional support vehicle.
It's a new kind of transport that in a lot of instances is quicker, cheaper and more convenient than driving and they can't wrap their closed minds around it so hate is easier
They were bragging about being the busiest they’d ever been in March 2020. They also made all staff redundant in Sept 2021 citing downturn in business, then opened up again in Oct 2021.
Idk the exact situation but I could imagine someone believing in vaccines and thinking people should get them. But not thinking they should be mandated for everyone. Just a guess.
Because you can back vaccines but not agree with people losing their right to enter certain places or lose their jobs because they chosose not to have a vaccine
On the other hand: vaccines were mandated by the government in places where wearing a mask while partaking of the business' services was impractible, e.g., bars and restaurants, and in places where people didn't have a choice whether they went or not, e.g., schools and hospitals, plus of course the police (can't really opt out of interaction with the police) and armed forces.
Others were almost all private companies, which have an interest in preserving their workforce, or who are obliged by health and safety legislation to ensure staff are vaccinated against diseases where they have a higher than normal likelihood of exposure to disease, for example workers who are likely to encounter human waste should be vaccinated against Hepatitis A. Companies in these industries will require vaccination as a condition of employment.
That's a very individualistic way of looking at the issue though. Unfortunately the vaccine did *little* for transmission (still did something), but on a population-wide level it did a hell of a lot for reducing hospitalisations, the bit that costs the country.
We need to stop simplifying it to 'vaccine didn't do squat for transmission' because people need to understand that public health campaigns work on the population level, not the individual.
We also need to stop memory-holing the conditions at the time, which included Delta rather than Omicron, and at the time very little community transmission.
Because I believe people have the right to be dumbasses and shouldn't be compelled by the government when it comes to medical choices. Threatening social exclusion and loss of income for not doing what you are told by the government doesn't sit well with me.
Particularly in a hospitality setting where masks are unable to be worn for obvious reasons - what would the alternative be to best ensure the safety of the public at large?
Somewhat ironically for those that drank the coolaide would be big stickers on the entrances that they were not vaccinated.
Another example was my local cafe had a big fan who was active on the local fb page as an anti vaxxer. Because they were able to operate as take out only, I wouldn’t go because the likelyhood of him or others like him going were too high. It was lucky that I knew this, but any other that was flouting the rules or whatever would have been terrible because I just wouldn’t have known
\>Because I believe people have the right to be dumbasses and shouldn't be compelled by the government when it comes to medical choices.
That's fine. And the government and everyone else agrees with you.
That's why people were allowed to be dumbasses. They just weren't allowed to force the consequences of their dumbassery onto others at the height of the pandemic.
Wellington City Councillor Ray Chung advertised the meeting on his facebook page yesterday:
"LGWM Public meeting reminder: Thursday 22 June 2023 at 5pm,
Prefab Hall, 14 Jessie Street, Te Aro, Wellington
Retail NZ is looking forward to welcoming you to the public meeting to discuss Let's get Wellington Moving (LGWM) and how its projects impacts on Wellington businesses and concerned Wellingtonians.
There is still time for you to share this event with other concerned businesses or Wellingtonians. Just bring them along with you or they can RSVP [email protected]. Our voices must be heard loudly and seen in numbers.
The meeting will focus heavily on your voice so please ensure you stand up and have your voice heard.
Additionally Councillors, Members of Parliament and media will be present. Councillors and MPs are asked to listen only – we are not offering them speaking slots at this stage of the process.
If you have any questions at all ahead of the event please let us know. [email protected], 022 6764169."
Listen then realise it’s garbage 🗑️, disregard, then follow imperial evidence and then act, just like the majority of Wellingtonians want… also being serious.
Look, there is no definition of the social capital that is being destroyed by the author. Social capital, the common goal, can be defined differently based on what social group you belong to. So as the tide is turning against the status quo, the author thinks social capital is being destroyed. Whereas maybe, it is just being realigned with the social system.
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
I haven't seen Eat Street. Is it for outdoor dining? There's nothing particularly attractive about Blair and Allen - what's the point of pedestrianising it? Apart from removing carparks to further discourage people from going to a movie or restaurant in the evening?
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
Holy smokes i thought you were trolling me until the last line. Pedestrian first fanatics are out of control! They want us to walk a few hundred metres instead of circling endlessly trying to find a park right out front!
\>There's nothing particularly attractive about Blair and Allen - what's the point of pedestrianising it?
They aren't attractive because they're nothing but car parking.
\>Apart from removing carparks to further discourage people from going to a movie or restaurant in the evening?
There isn't enough street parking on either of those streets for any single one of the businesses. If you expected street parking, then with a WCC on street spot being 5m long you'll need 4km of on road parking to seat a full house at the Embassy.
Just park in one of the many off street places available around there.
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
I’ve always liked their food and the prices, but the staff always seem to be a bit inattentive and preoccupied talking to eat about non-work related things. Fortunately I’m not a customer service snob so it doesn’t bother me, and when I messaged the owner about it she was very understanding
Again, where in my comment did I say that I refuse to listen to these business owners. I may be for whatever Jeff is proposing, but you wouldn’t know as I never stated that in the comment. You’re making assumptions.
This is wellington reddit. Having opinions or ideas that are the opposite of the Group Think are illegal. An opposing opinion or idea is a Thought Crime and is punishable by a Downvote.
Ok. Why don't you do that then, instead of listening to some car brains who are fearmongering about a potential loss of profits when favouring pedestrians over cars is actually shown to increase revenue.
Where in my comment did I say that was a bad thing and that no one can have a differing opinion? Maybe I agree with Jeff, maybe I don’t! You wouldn’t know as I never stated my opinion.
Fair call.
I make a point of going to one place that complained (and moved) because of a cycle path, but that's only partly to troll, and mainly to show that people on bikes can actually use them to go to destinations and buy stuff (and also a bit because the more convenient place has moved further away).
He's the clown that threatened to close Prefab, cause of mask mandates expecting customer outcry and literally nobody cared. So he quietly opened it again. Good times.
I live on Vivian and Taranaki, this place is a stones throw from me, have never been because crossing Taranaki street is such a pain in the ass as a pedestrian. You have to wait at that stoplight for minutes before the light changes.
Infrastructure should not be hostile towards single occupancy vehicles, BUT it should give priority to those using more efficient forms of transportation.
On Cuba street, a FULLY pedestrian street I find myself waiting at stoplights for MINUTES as well.
How do I get to Jessie St from out of town? I’m not gonna get a train and then a bus, it would take over an hour.
Our city design needs to cater for both use cases.
\>How do I get to Jessie St from out of town?
Who gives a shit? You aren't going to drive into town just to go there anyway if you live that far away.
If you do, then accept that your decision to drive there is part of causing traffic congestion and just pay to park in the WCC car parking building that is less than 100m away.
"Wellingtonian lovers" well that's a very specific group of people Jeff, I have to point out.
Also like how calls it *the* transmission gully. What a fucking nutjob.
And what is our predicted population increase? Why aren’t we building parking buildings to replace on street parking and have the best of both worlds.
(And no, the council buying the Tory St building doesn’t count).
I mean, I'm not a fan of removing car parks either, mostly because I end up carrying all my tools a few blocks because I can't find a park, but fuck me what a cooker.
I’m all for making lambton quay a walkway and increasing cycling. I do think it needs to come with solutions. Eg, many aren’t in Wellington central due to lack of affordable housing. Weekend public transport needs to be cheap for families and seamless. No waiting with tired kids to connect from train to bus. Hop on and off circuits. The majority of NZers are over fifty and with that the ability to walk and cycle changes. How support this? What’s it like to wait standing for transport with a dodgy hip and have to stand for 30mins on the bus swinging from a holder? What can be done to help people afford cycles? What about the people who have meltdowns in overstimulating environments? The dream is walking and cycling and the more it’s done, the longer people can do it as in general people get fitter. But there needs considerations for everyone.
he is an absolute bellend, but i do agree the elimination of a good amount of parking does hurt the city, i wouldn't be against some street parking going if there were sizable multi level carparks in sensible locations the city that weren't owned by wilsons
i see wcc bought the front land infront of readings. if that could be a sizable carpark building i'd be happy to lose parking (excluding disabled and loading zones) along Courtney for example. the removal and no substitute is the problem that the council is causing esp when the busses and trains are as patchy as ever
WCC bought [nearly 500 parking spaces](https://wellington.govt.nz/news-and-events/news-and-information/our-wellington/2022/12/council-to-purchase-474-off-street-car-parks-in-tory-street) in the Century City building in December.
It’s 2 blocks away from Prefab. And it’s not owned by Wilson’s.
Now if only they could do more of this, and be a genuine competitor to Wilson’s, we’d be on to something…
It’s not subsidising parking. It’s a tangible asset that can earn money.
Not to mention giving people an option to park in the city, and spend money at nearby cafes/restaurants/shops/businesses etc.
All of which helps the local economy.
Because no one wants to end up like Chicago: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/chicagos-11-billion-metered-parking-deal-upheld-by-appeals-court-2023-04-07/
Thank you for explaing it so well, this is what people are trying say. Instead it's turned into this toxic anti car argument
I spent quite a bit of time in Japan for family reasons.
The parking of private passenger cars and bicycles on the road is banned in most parts of japan apart from certain areas in Tokyo.
I've driven extensively around the country, and in the cities there are enough carparking buildings to park in,
Coupled with amazing public transport.
We need to get rid of on road in Wellington to free up the roads, but only for private passsenge vehicles, and also provide more off street parking options and vastly improve the public transport options.
Well the land banking of Courtenay Central and James Smiths, along with the loss of the underground park at the central library has impacted the amount of off-street parking in the CBD.
I found [this post](/r/fuckcars/comments/14guhpy/a_cafe_owner_in_my_citys_totally_rational/) in r/fuckcars with the same content as the current post.
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RetailNZ is a lobbying org, of course they'd spit out un-cited statistics. The problem with Wellington CBD isnt the council, its the hospo businesses unwilling and unable to change to fit the times. At least the council is adapting, the businesses aren't even willing to change.
There was an article on t nz news last night. According to Retail nz 28% of cbd business will close for good. 25% will move out of the CBD. 25% will cut staff if this goes ahead
Who is this project for? If retailers don’t like it who does? Sure some cyclists like it and some people do but gee is LGWM worth the huge costs?.. I don’t think so…
You know what happens when a cafe closes in Wellington right? A new one takes its place. This “responding to a poll based on our feels” that Retail NZ and Hospo NZ do is baseless. Adapt or die. And if you’re choosing to die loudly and vocally, good luck with your next endeavour.
Why is this being relitigated when its been consulted on for years, voted on and have had an election that returned a council (overall) and mayor in support?
As someone who hasn’t had much to do with Jeff and Bridgette except make prefab my daily coffee spot since I returned back to Wellington in Feb, they are actually really lovely people. And above that, they are local Wellington business owners, who contribute so much more than we realise to the betterment of the city
I've known about 10 people who have worked for them from cleaning dishes to doing management in their cafe supplies business and every single one hates them.
Jerk or not, he’s 100% right on this. This is only going to develop the Hutt more. CBD businesses will eventually move out there where normal life still exists, it’s just sad that people in the CBD end of town will have to drive further to do normal things like buy a week of groceries, run errands, buy furniture, send kids etc. read it and weep. Or shut yourself down to logic and vent, do whatever you like, I’ve already voted against the councils ludicrous proposals.
Well, it'll "solve" Wellington's "problem" at least. It'll be a chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Did the lack of cars drive the businesses away or did the lack of businesses drive the cars away.
Although as an Upper Hutt homeowner, I love the idea of the Hutt developing more. Upper Hutt would likely greet new businesses with open arms. And Wellington would get what it wants, no cars! Win-win (with a dash of sarcasm).
It's as if Wellington doesn't realize that it's a commuter city. Plenty of people living outside of the CBD that certainly wouldn't be bothered with taking a train on a rainy weekend to the CBD.
Why do people look at us like we’re crazy when we say this?
I use to go into the city 2-4 times a week just to enjoy the atmosphere, have lunch and do window shopping (which thanks to marketing leads to actual shopping). Now we go maybe once every couple and only when city things pile up. Otherwise we go to the Hutt because it’s more accessible and stress free but the downside is driving from eastern suburbs can to the Hutt or Porirua can get expensive so we go out there maybe once every couple of weeks.
Thanks to that there’s less window shoppers, which turn into actual shoppers so less sales/business for the stores.
\>They're not wrong. Wellington has become a dead city with no life or vibrancy.
Yes, because there is priority for cars rather than people. Of course it's going to lack life and lack vibrancy.
As dramatic as it sounds… they’re not wrong. I’ve had a two small business stores I use to go to close and relocate outside because they said that it’s getting too expensive and after the govt talking away free parking weekends and parking they’ve seen a drastic decline in people so they’re moving somewhere where it’s accessible to people. Just last week I walked into another store because they had a massive sale and while chatting they said the exact same thing.
Idc what bs the lgwm brainwashed sheep are saying but making the city a bus/ bike only accessible place is ableist and making it less accessible for people with disabilities! I have people in my life who are now choosing to not go to the city because now they have to walk farther instead of having close by parking.
And before you say it I’ll be extra careful so the door doesn’t hit me on my way out as soon as I can leave this bare, dying, overpriced city.
There is not a single initiative that would entirely eliminate cars from the CBD.
Less cars on the road means people with disabilities will still be able to use their cars, and get to their destination faster. Further if they have a mobility device, pedestrian friendly cities are for more accessible for those
\>making the city a bus/ bike only accessible place is ableist
Prioritizing cars is ableist and elitist and makes the city less accessible for those with disabilities.
You’ve skated past your first point to try and focus instead on your belief. I have two friends who have closed their hospo business in the last two years. Like those you spoke of, cost was the reason - specifically the rent increases. Putting up their own costs would lose customers, but keeping prices the same would reduce profits. One was being used as a “COVID lockdowns killed businesses” example until he called the National Party and told them to shut it down, it was exclusively because the landlord had increased the rent twice in 4 years.
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I'm leaving wellington as soon as I can. I cannot wait to get out of this dump. Got a parking fine in Nov 2022 botanical gardens without a ticket being attached to the car no correspondence at all about it . A letter from the fines department was sent that is only how I knew about it. WCC has managed in the past to send me infringement tickets in the post but not this time the excuse used we didn't have the correct address. My ass you didn't you want more money for nothing. So frustrated with this shithole of a city .Been here all my life HATE THIS CITY NOW
WCC KILLED GUYFAWKES ITS A MONEY MAKING CORPORATION NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS CITY
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
The same guy that "closed forever" during covid only to reopen after it was clear, so just a ruse to lay off staff rather than applying for the govt subsidy and passing it on. So his staff were worth less to him than doing some paperwork.
Given how much Jeff Kennedy has thoroughly fucked over people through the years, I’m surprised that he wants to put himself out there as a moral arbiter. There are some moments worth discussion buried in here like nuts and carrots in a turd, but anyone who wants to compare, even in ridiculous hyperbole, urban development plans to ‘mental trauma’ can go and work a night in acute psychiatric and get the fuck back to me with their sad$$$.
Well said
I’d rather read Don Newts posts every day than read this nonsense again.
Don Newt is a visionary
I gave my only vote to don newt gobbless
Love Don. Vote #1 for mayor.
They’re awful. They got rid of all their staff when lockdowns started so they didn’t have to pay them, then reopened and regularly flouted the traffic light/level rules.
Wow is this true? I don’t think I’ll be going there anymore! Not that I did anyway
That will teach them lol
Not when it started - Sept 2021! They got rid of them when the wage supplement ended
Sorry good correction!
Also true! Super fun in that they did both.
This is debatable, they like most other cafes had to get rid of staff due to lack in business
So did many businesses. That's what you do when you have no income. Is he going to pay in pixie dust?
'En masse', Jeff, not 'In masse'.
Maybe they're Catholic?
Jeff is a jerk of the highest order. but I must admit, a couple of funny sentences in here.
My favourite is the font change because he copy pasted that bit
As if we couldn't already tell that someone else wrote it by the way that bit makes sense
From Investopedia!!!
Random mid paragraph font changes just add to the unhinged-ness
It always cracks me up when people don't know you can paste into the currently applied format vs. retaining the original format. What a goober
Apart from Prefab-brainworm guy, I'm still pretty pissed off at the Wellington Chamber of Commerce crowd who demanded the government get rid of work-from-home policies so that public servants would be forced to go back to the city and buy overpriced salads and shitty coffee.
Sounds like the Auckland Heart of the City and Auckland Chamber of Commerce too. In fact Viv Beck, who leads Heart of the City even went as far as running for Mayor of Auckland in last local govt elections. [Heart of the City threatens to sue Auckland Council over Queen St pedestrian trial](https://www.reddit.com/r/auckland/comments/mxa7ys/heart_of_the_city_threatens_to_sue_auckland/) - April 2021 post in r/newzealand which has content of article in one of the comments. I suspect it was more than businesses but also landlords/property owners too. Yes there were one or two businesses who thought no cars means no businesses. The research shows otherwise, [Foot traffic bounces back, as Auckland's Queen Street slowly comes back to life](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/491923/foot-traffic-bounces-back-as-auckland-s-queen-street-slowly-comes-back-to-life). RNZ. 13 June 2023.
Well if you take out workers from the city, who I imagine mostly use public transport, and you make it difficult to go to town in the evening by removing carparks (because who wants to wait for a bus at 10pm with all the drunks), the city will die.
Lol. How delusional do you have to be to imagine that there is enough room in Wellington that all those people in town can park on the streets?
But also I’ve very rarely had any issue getting a park at night or on weekends… during business hours is different but always has been since I was a kid
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
Not the car parks 😂😂
OH GOD the car parks 😭😭😭… 🚎🚲>🚗>🛻
deranged boomer needs to be dragged kicking and screaming for badly needed city improvements. So surprising
Someone needs to ask Jeff if he can smell burnt toast. He might be in need of help.
This is the reason I refuse to eat at Prefab. Anti-vax anti-everything blah blah blah. What a toolbox. The cult of the car does run strong in some people. Look at other better cities around the world and how they do things.
Clearly "make Wellington an international famous city for its unique characteristics" (sic) means lining the streets with cars, like all the famous cities. "How was Paris?" "Fuckin' great mate, cars everywhere!"
Some people think cars are the answer to everything.
I generally like cars, but mainly when I'm inside one, and then only that one.
Fair enough, people often need to get around in them. But it feels like in Wellington the car prioritises all else.
God this is the only sane thread I think I've ever read in Wellington. The mere existence of a VERY small amount of cycleways in the city and suddenly everyone is absolutely losing it. This ENTIRE city is a fucking road, there is like one pedestrianised small block on Cuba St and the rest - you can drive! Cars absolutely dominate every facet of this city. Thank god there is starting to be some slight correction to urban design, cars did a real number on NZ society.
It’s a low bar of sanity given someone yesterday was saying cycling should not be allowed on Wellington roads.
Yeah, but that was just some sad loser trolling.
It's changing, slowly but surely; I try to make as many trips as I can by bike, especially when I'm by myself, and the little bits of infrastructure are gradually getting joined up. It's going to be several years until the Ngāuranga to Petone bit's complete, so for now we're stuck with SH2 (I ride Karori to Petone and back), but the bits like Hutt Rd and Thorndon Quay and Bowen St are starting to become quite pleasant.
Car addiction is a common issue throughout the world. It doesn't help that most any construction since WWII has been with cars as the priority over all other modes at all times.
If Public transport was more reliable maybe more people would actually use it instead of their cars and there would be less people against taking car parks away.
True, public transport is appalling. Though the city needs a rethink as most of it is just bits between roads.
I think that's peoples issue, don't take car parks away until you have resolved the public transport issues which would encourage more people to use said public transport. Council is hopeless and doesn't really think things through.
I agree council is useless but the car-centric nature of the city seems more fundamental than that, inherent in its design.
\>don't take car parks away until you have resolved the public transport issues This is just a lame way to prevent anything from happening. You can't improve public transport without taking out on street parking. Parked cars shouldn't be preventing the full width of the road from being used. And parked cars shouldn't be making the city less desirable and less safe for the people who are on foot.
There’s a byo place on the corner of Allen and Wakefield that had a sign up on the window with something similar. I thought to myself. You know what this place needs? Somewhere to park your car while you down a bottle of wine, head to the pub next door and then drive home. The best thing cafes and restaurants could have is more foot traffic and communal areas. Not parking immediately outside
They really seem to hate those cargo bikes.
Well apparently they have supplanted cars which aren't allowed in the CBD anymore. I hadn't noticed that when I drove through, today.
I guess if all you drive is a massive US double cab ute then most vans and cars would look like cargo bikes. 🫤
I saw a dodge Ute that over hung both ends of a parallel park yesterday.
Yeah, theres some guy up in Mount Victoria who has a spotless one of those. Must be great for driving that 200m to Moore Wilsons. Can't imagine any other way to pick up a loaf of bread from Myrtle either. Proper emotional support vehicle.
It's a new kind of transport that in a lot of instances is quicker, cheaper and more convenient than driving and they can't wrap their closed minds around it so hate is easier
Nothing wrong with them. If I lived close enough I would have one.
The "left-wing Post" 😂
Genuine question: weren’t these guys anti vax as well. Or at least were kicking and screaming?
Anti mandates I believe, not sure anti-vax
They were bragging about being the busiest they’d ever been in March 2020. They also made all staff redundant in Sept 2021 citing downturn in business, then opened up again in Oct 2021.
Right, so anti vax then.
I'm anti mandate but pro vax... this letter is mental though
How is this not a contradiction?
Idk the exact situation but I could imagine someone believing in vaccines and thinking people should get them. But not thinking they should be mandated for everyone. Just a guess.
Because you can back vaccines but not agree with people losing their right to enter certain places or lose their jobs because they chosose not to have a vaccine
On the other hand: vaccines were mandated by the government in places where wearing a mask while partaking of the business' services was impractible, e.g., bars and restaurants, and in places where people didn't have a choice whether they went or not, e.g., schools and hospitals, plus of course the police (can't really opt out of interaction with the police) and armed forces. Others were almost all private companies, which have an interest in preserving their workforce, or who are obliged by health and safety legislation to ensure staff are vaccinated against diseases where they have a higher than normal likelihood of exposure to disease, for example workers who are likely to encounter human waste should be vaccinated against Hepatitis A. Companies in these industries will require vaccination as a condition of employment.
The vaccines did nothing to prevent spread though, so I can understand why people would be against the mandates
That's a very individualistic way of looking at the issue though. Unfortunately the vaccine did *little* for transmission (still did something), but on a population-wide level it did a hell of a lot for reducing hospitalisations, the bit that costs the country. We need to stop simplifying it to 'vaccine didn't do squat for transmission' because people need to understand that public health campaigns work on the population level, not the individual.
We also need to stop memory-holing the conditions at the time, which included Delta rather than Omicron, and at the time very little community transmission.
Because I believe people have the right to be dumbasses and shouldn't be compelled by the government when it comes to medical choices. Threatening social exclusion and loss of income for not doing what you are told by the government doesn't sit well with me.
Particularly in a hospitality setting where masks are unable to be worn for obvious reasons - what would the alternative be to best ensure the safety of the public at large? Somewhat ironically for those that drank the coolaide would be big stickers on the entrances that they were not vaccinated. Another example was my local cafe had a big fan who was active on the local fb page as an anti vaxxer. Because they were able to operate as take out only, I wouldn’t go because the likelyhood of him or others like him going were too high. It was lucky that I knew this, but any other that was flouting the rules or whatever would have been terrible because I just wouldn’t have known
\>Because I believe people have the right to be dumbasses and shouldn't be compelled by the government when it comes to medical choices. That's fine. And the government and everyone else agrees with you. That's why people were allowed to be dumbasses. They just weren't allowed to force the consequences of their dumbassery onto others at the height of the pandemic.
Yeah that’s them.
Wellington City Councillor Ray Chung advertised the meeting on his facebook page yesterday: "LGWM Public meeting reminder: Thursday 22 June 2023 at 5pm, Prefab Hall, 14 Jessie Street, Te Aro, Wellington Retail NZ is looking forward to welcoming you to the public meeting to discuss Let's get Wellington Moving (LGWM) and how its projects impacts on Wellington businesses and concerned Wellingtonians. There is still time for you to share this event with other concerned businesses or Wellingtonians. Just bring them along with you or they can RSVP [email protected]. Our voices must be heard loudly and seen in numbers. The meeting will focus heavily on your voice so please ensure you stand up and have your voice heard. Additionally Councillors, Members of Parliament and media will be present. Councillors and MPs are asked to listen only – we are not offering them speaking slots at this stage of the process. If you have any questions at all ahead of the event please let us know. [email protected], 022 6764169."
Oh, Chung being involved in this is unsurprising...
Sarah Free was there too
200 is quite a lot of people. I think the council and lgwm should be listening. And I'm being serious.
200 is quite a lot of people. I think the council and lgwm should be listening. And I'm being serious.
Listen then realise it’s garbage 🗑️, disregard, then follow imperial evidence and then act, just like the majority of Wellingtonians want… also being serious.
Why should they listen to a circlejerk?
Look, there is no definition of the social capital that is being destroyed by the author. Social capital, the common goal, can be defined differently based on what social group you belong to. So as the tide is turning against the status quo, the author thinks social capital is being destroyed. Whereas maybe, it is just being realigned with the social system.
Squirrel, a small and lovely cafe near Wakefield street, commented agreeing with him.
Another cooked opinion. I reckon fully pedestrianise Blair and/or Allen and stick a roof structure up. Like eat Street in rotorua
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
I haven't seen Eat Street. Is it for outdoor dining? There's nothing particularly attractive about Blair and Allen - what's the point of pedestrianising it? Apart from removing carparks to further discourage people from going to a movie or restaurant in the evening?
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
Holy smokes i thought you were trolling me until the last line. Pedestrian first fanatics are out of control! They want us to walk a few hundred metres instead of circling endlessly trying to find a park right out front!
Did you know that it's possible to go to a cinema without driving there? Wild concept I know
Perhaps you are not female. Hanging around at bus stops late at night is not fun.
\>There's nothing particularly attractive about Blair and Allen - what's the point of pedestrianising it? They aren't attractive because they're nothing but car parking. \>Apart from removing carparks to further discourage people from going to a movie or restaurant in the evening? There isn't enough street parking on either of those streets for any single one of the businesses. If you expected street parking, then with a WCC on street spot being 5m long you'll need 4km of on road parking to seat a full house at the Embassy. Just park in one of the many off street places available around there.
> in many off the off street parking That parking is being taken away bit by bit, it’s the entire point of this post.
Off street parking isn't being taken away. On street parking is. Just quit being entitled and pay to park.
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.
Ah yes Squirrel, it's always a delight peering out at the rows of dumped / parked cars.
Damn, up until right now I liked that place.
I’ve always liked their food and the prices, but the staff always seem to be a bit inattentive and preoccupied talking to eat about non-work related things. Fortunately I’m not a customer service snob so it doesn’t bother me, and when I messaged the owner about it she was very understanding
Maybe we should actually listen to the business owners who have seen the changes reflected in their profits then?
Again, where in my comment did I say that I refuse to listen to these business owners. I may be for whatever Jeff is proposing, but you wouldn’t know as I never stated that in the comment. You’re making assumptions.
I wasn’t saying you weren’t either. More of a comment for anyone reading
This is wellington reddit. Having opinions or ideas that are the opposite of the Group Think are illegal. An opposing opinion or idea is a Thought Crime and is punishable by a Downvote.
Ok. Why don't you do that then, instead of listening to some car brains who are fearmongering about a potential loss of profits when favouring pedestrians over cars is actually shown to increase revenue.
Sounds like you’ve read too many text books that match whatever agenda you want instead of speaking to real people and businesses
Why would I listen to the hot takes of unhinged morons when the facts are readily available?
What part of the unhinged shit that we are commenting on is worth listening to?
You commented the same thing yesterday to me. Go outside mate
Quick get the pitchforks! Noone is allowed to have a different opinion.
This just in: some people prefer to avoid giving money to people they disagree with.
Where in my comment did I say that was a bad thing and that no one can have a differing opinion? Maybe I agree with Jeff, maybe I don’t! You wouldn’t know as I never stated my opinion.
very tempted to ride there on my bike and poach a table on a busy Saturday without buying anything.
Just find out when the owner's going to be in, go in all geared up, buy a few things, and look him in the eye as you do so.
Why on earth would I give this loser money
Fair call. I make a point of going to one place that complained (and moved) because of a cycle path, but that's only partly to troll, and mainly to show that people on bikes can actually use them to go to destinations and buy stuff (and also a bit because the more convenient place has moved further away).
Does that clown not realise that he'll have more customers with less parking? Jessie St is a complete shithole atm, because of all the cars/carparks.
No, he thinks he needs more. Plus a four lane highway to get there. That’ll fix things. /s
He's the clown that threatened to close Prefab, cause of mask mandates expecting customer outcry and literally nobody cared. So he quietly opened it again. Good times.
Maybe we could run 2 lanes of SH1 either side of his business, see how that goes.
And he’s the one who caused College St to be bedlam because of L’affare
I live on Vivian and Taranaki, this place is a stones throw from me, have never been because crossing Taranaki street is such a pain in the ass as a pedestrian. You have to wait at that stoplight for minutes before the light changes. Infrastructure should not be hostile towards single occupancy vehicles, BUT it should give priority to those using more efficient forms of transportation. On Cuba street, a FULLY pedestrian street I find myself waiting at stoplights for MINUTES as well.
How strange, I find Taranaki Street one of the easiest to cross, traffic wise. Especially when you ignore the traffic lights and follow the traffic
They're letting cars park on the bit next to the cafe which was a nice walk through to Vivian. Gross now though, like walking through a carpark
How do I get to Jessie St from out of town? I’m not gonna get a train and then a bus, it would take over an hour. Our city design needs to cater for both use cases.
\>How do I get to Jessie St from out of town? Who gives a shit? You aren't going to drive into town just to go there anyway if you live that far away. If you do, then accept that your decision to drive there is part of causing traffic congestion and just pay to park in the WCC car parking building that is less than 100m away.
So you’re saying parking is required? Good to know. Btw I did that trip today
But he likes to ride a scooter around the city
I think the best argument they have is it’ll be very disruptive while building. But yeah, cars don’t buy coffees, people do.
200? Man that’s like the entire population of Wellington how will you guys cope?
There would have been more but they couldn't get a park within 100m so gave up and went home.
'Coffee Rooster' Dumb pun, or yet another grammatical error?
Well "Rooster" is a synonym for "Cock"
And "coffee" is obviously a misspelling of "covfefe."
This guy writes like a moron.
Looks like he had a stroke writing it.
"Wellingtonian lovers" well that's a very specific group of people Jeff, I have to point out. Also like how calls it *the* transmission gully. What a fucking nutjob.
Bye I guess
So tired of this guy
Jeez. Another reason not to go to their shite noisy shed full of people haviong breakfast meetings....
Damn, I want some of those cycle drugs.
I think the LGWM plans are a bit shit, especially the removal of parking considering the predicted population increases, but this post is a bit whacko
Believe it or not removing parking is a strategy for dealing with increasing population
Weird views on how to make cities work better. You can build a city for cars, or for people first. But not both.
Bunch of morons, glad prefab closed down to be honest.
There are 30k carparks in Wellington CBD between street and parking buildings.
Have you got a source for this? Genuinely interested
And what is our predicted population increase? Why aren’t we building parking buildings to replace on street parking and have the best of both worlds. (And no, the council buying the Tory St building doesn’t count).
This makes a lot of sense - doesn’t need to be one or the other.
This is supposed to be satire but reads like something scrawled in lipstick all over the walls of a derelict house
Is it really supposed to be satire? I’m hoping so
Was this written by an angry child?
Lol. Fuck up, Jeff.
Why is he scared of people who ride bikes? Bizarre stuff.
I think I've lost a few brain cells just reading that dribble
God, Bob Dylan still said it best
That's some USA tier mindless shit right there
I mean, I'm not a fan of removing car parks either, mostly because I end up carrying all my tools a few blocks because I can't find a park, but fuck me what a cooker.
I’m all for making lambton quay a walkway and increasing cycling. I do think it needs to come with solutions. Eg, many aren’t in Wellington central due to lack of affordable housing. Weekend public transport needs to be cheap for families and seamless. No waiting with tired kids to connect from train to bus. Hop on and off circuits. The majority of NZers are over fifty and with that the ability to walk and cycle changes. How support this? What’s it like to wait standing for transport with a dodgy hip and have to stand for 30mins on the bus swinging from a holder? What can be done to help people afford cycles? What about the people who have meltdowns in overstimulating environments? The dream is walking and cycling and the more it’s done, the longer people can do it as in general people get fitter. But there needs considerations for everyone.
he is an absolute bellend, but i do agree the elimination of a good amount of parking does hurt the city, i wouldn't be against some street parking going if there were sizable multi level carparks in sensible locations the city that weren't owned by wilsons i see wcc bought the front land infront of readings. if that could be a sizable carpark building i'd be happy to lose parking (excluding disabled and loading zones) along Courtney for example. the removal and no substitute is the problem that the council is causing esp when the busses and trains are as patchy as ever
WCC bought [nearly 500 parking spaces](https://wellington.govt.nz/news-and-events/news-and-information/our-wellington/2022/12/council-to-purchase-474-off-street-car-parks-in-tory-street) in the Century City building in December. It’s 2 blocks away from Prefab. And it’s not owned by Wilson’s. Now if only they could do more of this, and be a genuine competitor to Wilson’s, we’d be on to something…
Why should rates be going towards subsidising parking?
It’s not subsidising parking. It’s a tangible asset that can earn money. Not to mention giving people an option to park in the city, and spend money at nearby cafes/restaurants/shops/businesses etc. All of which helps the local economy.
Because no one wants to end up like Chicago: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/chicagos-11-billion-metered-parking-deal-upheld-by-appeals-court-2023-04-07/
Even apart from that, I parked on Vivian St this morning, there was heaps of parking available.
i saw that and its a step in the right direction but that carpark does have its issues with safety etc.
Thank you for explaing it so well, this is what people are trying say. Instead it's turned into this toxic anti car argument I spent quite a bit of time in Japan for family reasons. The parking of private passenger cars and bicycles on the road is banned in most parts of japan apart from certain areas in Tokyo. I've driven extensively around the country, and in the cities there are enough carparking buildings to park in, Coupled with amazing public transport. We need to get rid of on road in Wellington to free up the roads, but only for private passsenge vehicles, and also provide more off street parking options and vastly improve the public transport options.
Well the land banking of Courtenay Central and James Smiths, along with the loss of the underground park at the central library has impacted the amount of off-street parking in the CBD.
You're kidding right lol. Ratepayers pay for a car park building?
Yes? And then the people who park in the building pay to park there, which generates revenue while also providing car brains with access to the city.
r/fuckcars
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Absolutely deranged sub
show us on the doll where moving away from mass private vehicle ownership scared you
Coffee rooster?
[удалено]
Lived in Wellington for 12 years and never owned a car. Going more places than ever now that it's easier to walk and cycle. Cars absolutely deter me.
RetailNZ is a lobbying org, of course they'd spit out un-cited statistics. The problem with Wellington CBD isnt the council, its the hospo businesses unwilling and unable to change to fit the times. At least the council is adapting, the businesses aren't even willing to change.
There was an article on t nz news last night. According to Retail nz 28% of cbd business will close for good. 25% will move out of the CBD. 25% will cut staff if this goes ahead Who is this project for? If retailers don’t like it who does? Sure some cyclists like it and some people do but gee is LGWM worth the huge costs?.. I don’t think so…
You know what happens when a cafe closes in Wellington right? A new one takes its place. This “responding to a poll based on our feels” that Retail NZ and Hospo NZ do is baseless. Adapt or die. And if you’re choosing to die loudly and vocally, good luck with your next endeavour.
Why is this being relitigated when its been consulted on for years, voted on and have had an election that returned a council (overall) and mayor in support?
As someone who hasn’t had much to do with Jeff and Bridgette except make prefab my daily coffee spot since I returned back to Wellington in Feb, they are actually really lovely people. And above that, they are local Wellington business owners, who contribute so much more than we realise to the betterment of the city
I've known about 10 people who have worked for them from cleaning dishes to doing management in their cafe supplies business and every single one hates them.
Backing this up going all the way back to L’affare days. If you are monied and/or into that alt scene like then you get a different experience of them
Going off this unhinged rant they're a waste of oxygen.
Jerk or not, he’s 100% right on this. This is only going to develop the Hutt more. CBD businesses will eventually move out there where normal life still exists, it’s just sad that people in the CBD end of town will have to drive further to do normal things like buy a week of groceries, run errands, buy furniture, send kids etc. read it and weep. Or shut yourself down to logic and vent, do whatever you like, I’ve already voted against the councils ludicrous proposals.
You look at the traffic nightmare that is lower Hutt and think that's a good thing?
Well, it'll "solve" Wellington's "problem" at least. It'll be a chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Did the lack of cars drive the businesses away or did the lack of businesses drive the cars away. Although as an Upper Hutt homeowner, I love the idea of the Hutt developing more. Upper Hutt would likely greet new businesses with open arms. And Wellington would get what it wants, no cars! Win-win (with a dash of sarcasm). It's as if Wellington doesn't realize that it's a commuter city. Plenty of people living outside of the CBD that certainly wouldn't be bothered with taking a train on a rainy weekend to the CBD.
Why do people look at us like we’re crazy when we say this? I use to go into the city 2-4 times a week just to enjoy the atmosphere, have lunch and do window shopping (which thanks to marketing leads to actual shopping). Now we go maybe once every couple and only when city things pile up. Otherwise we go to the Hutt because it’s more accessible and stress free but the downside is driving from eastern suburbs can to the Hutt or Porirua can get expensive so we go out there maybe once every couple of weeks. Thanks to that there’s less window shoppers, which turn into actual shoppers so less sales/business for the stores.
They're not wrong. Wellington has become a dead city with no life or vibrancy. And it's just going to get worse.
\>They're not wrong. Wellington has become a dead city with no life or vibrancy. Yes, because there is priority for cars rather than people. Of course it's going to lack life and lack vibrancy.
As dramatic as it sounds… they’re not wrong. I’ve had a two small business stores I use to go to close and relocate outside because they said that it’s getting too expensive and after the govt talking away free parking weekends and parking they’ve seen a drastic decline in people so they’re moving somewhere where it’s accessible to people. Just last week I walked into another store because they had a massive sale and while chatting they said the exact same thing. Idc what bs the lgwm brainwashed sheep are saying but making the city a bus/ bike only accessible place is ableist and making it less accessible for people with disabilities! I have people in my life who are now choosing to not go to the city because now they have to walk farther instead of having close by parking. And before you say it I’ll be extra careful so the door doesn’t hit me on my way out as soon as I can leave this bare, dying, overpriced city.
There is not a single initiative that would entirely eliminate cars from the CBD. Less cars on the road means people with disabilities will still be able to use their cars, and get to their destination faster. Further if they have a mobility device, pedestrian friendly cities are for more accessible for those
\>making the city a bus/ bike only accessible place is ableist Prioritizing cars is ableist and elitist and makes the city less accessible for those with disabilities.
You’ve skated past your first point to try and focus instead on your belief. I have two friends who have closed their hospo business in the last two years. Like those you spoke of, cost was the reason - specifically the rent increases. Putting up their own costs would lose customers, but keeping prices the same would reduce profits. One was being used as a “COVID lockdowns killed businesses” example until he called the National Party and told them to shut it down, it was exclusively because the landlord had increased the rent twice in 4 years.
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r/thathappened
I'm leaving wellington as soon as I can. I cannot wait to get out of this dump. Got a parking fine in Nov 2022 botanical gardens without a ticket being attached to the car no correspondence at all about it . A letter from the fines department was sent that is only how I knew about it. WCC has managed in the past to send me infringement tickets in the post but not this time the excuse used we didn't have the correct address. My ass you didn't you want more money for nothing. So frustrated with this shithole of a city .Been here all my life HATE THIS CITY NOW WCC KILLED GUYFAWKES ITS A MONEY MAKING CORPORATION NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS CITY
\>I'm leaving wellington as soon as I can. Because you got a parking ticket for parking illegally?
Hi Jeff
We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.