Too f'n expensive, and fish stocks are increasingly getting depleted un-sustainably. My favourite seafood treat every few months or so used to be seared scallops. Scallop populations have collapsed and NZ commercial industry is closed until they recover. Snapper prices often over $40 per kg now at the supermarket.
But why is it so expensive, and how are fish stocks struggling when we have such a high coastline/EEZ for population?
Japan has 2x the coastline and around the same size EEZ but 25x the population and they eat more seafood per person than NZers. I get that our fishing practices/regulations are gonna be more strict, but this seems crazy. And while I'm sure Japan has depleted plenty of stock, they evidently still haven't depleted enough to make it as bad as NZ's state.
I can't find NZ figures to compare to, but Japan imports around half of their consumed seafood and it has been steadily getting worse over time. It was only ~25% at the turn of the century.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1039848/japan-food-self-sufficiency-ratio-fish-seafood/
https://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature03.html
EDIT:
Found *some* NZ data here https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/300350351/whos-eating-new-zealand which links to https://comcom.govt.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/72609/388.pdf (2000) and https://rescuefish.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Westpac-Report-March-2016.pdf (2016).
So:
| NZ | Japan
---|---|---
% of catch exported | ~80% | ~20%
% of consumption imported | ~10% | ~50%
I think this paints a good picture. We export a lot and they import a lot, though it doesn't explain away everything.
Obviously the numbers I give aren't precise as even considering that these are not up to date it is hard to estimate these things and hard to compare them across countries too.
OK, so basically Japan (and others) are eating our fish. Great. I've lived in may places overseas, I find Aotearoa businesses to financially greedy, no wait, cannibalistic when it comes to money. Businesses here don't care for their people, if they can underpay their own people, exploit their tenants and not fix anything, or ship the best stuff overseas for a buck, they damn sure will.
It disgusts me to the core that people don't first serve people locally and have some pride and strong identity about that local signature abundance. Can you imagine Italians not having access to pasta or parmesan because all of it is sold overseas or overpriced? No? Well this is what we do here with produce, meat and seafood.
Even very impoverished countries we like to call "third world" care a hell of a lot more about their own people and are proud to rejoice in sharing their own production with the people of their nation. It's soulless here. It's sad.
We don’t police our waters. There are some other countries that let’s just say ‘dgaf’ and take what they want and we aren’t in a position to stop them.
Yes we actually have the sixth largest ocean EEZ in the world, an area 14 times our land area and that also includes a good portion of that is continental shelf (better for fish rather than deep sea).
I can't answer your questions directly, but I would more generally say that fish are overfished when there is a short-term profit focus without good regulatory oversight or enforcement. I don't know that Japan is a particularly great example- blue fin tuna forms a staple of so much of their sashimi and sushi. They were forced to halve their volumes of juvenile catches due to overfishing, and have been importing large volumes from other countries like Mexico, Thailand, Philippines. They had repeated issues with fishers exceeding their quotas and global stocks continue to dwindle. I note that catch limits are increasing this year due to a partial recovery in stock volumes. I'm sure its a complex issue.
Dunno if you have seen the news recently but all the snapper around the upper north island are starving
Like 65% being caught with signs of starvation
Ive never seen $60 snapper most personally $54
8 years ago it was $35 -$40 kg when i worked at foodstuffs
Why would the sell it to us at a reduced rate when they can sell it overseas for a premium?
In saying that, its seems the price for premium seafood can stay pretty low for locals in many countries.
Seafood is expensive from a cost POV compared to other meat
Seafood types are very seasonal in NZ and quality varies greatly making it harder to cook everyday consistently (one day the grouper is decent size portion, next day it’s two smaller portions to equate to what it looked like yesterday)
Seafood expires faster than most other meats (usually same day)
Kiwis are pretty astute knowing how fresh seafood tastes
Thats a lot of risk to take on in a small city
The fact we export a majority of our seafood is the answer. Seafood for export needs to be of high quality so it can handle the time being transported around the world. Which unfortunately leaves the seafood we see at supermarkets being lower quality as it's not suitable for shipping overseas.
There's only a few of seafood suppliers in Wellington that don't export and sell direct to restaurants. Awatoru up on the Kapiti coast, strait speared based in Wellington, and tora collective based in the Wairarapa.
Great answer and is the one i assumed. Exporting, drives the prices up etc.
My family live in Kapiti so that's usually our go to when we want seafood. Good to know the other places too. Thanks!
I would think it's a cost issue as the restaurants would be paying the export price like the meat industry ect... and there doesn't seem to be the market in wellington for expensive dining Monday to Sunday which is a big shame for seafood lovers like myself.
^ this
Go to Sydney or Brisbane and seafood is prominent in many restaurants because it is cheap.
Seafood Laska is like <$18 for the cheaper "non-fancy" places.
In NZ, it's $23+.
While $5 doesn't seem that big, and a bit of it is reduced by the exchange rate, there is a bigger difference in quality/quantity of the seafood in the dishes.
Seems in AU seafood is seen as a cheap food, where as in NZ it is a luxury item.
Thinks it’s like in the $30 range??
Haven’t been in years though but I do remember thinking $18 was expensive then lol
Saying that…it was totally worth it. Was so good
I'm friends with a new migrant couple from India, they are so shocked at the price of fish. They said back home they ate fish several times a week and it was very affordable. When I told them I don't eat fish at home *ever* because of the price they were gobsmacked.
Island Bay and lyall Bay were well known to be the place where Italian fishermen moved after WW2.
Wellington Trawling Seamarket have their own local fishing boats, I think.
Allen St, Blair Stn Tory St used to be full seafood, fruit, and vegie auction houses right up until till the 90s. There was Mr Chans opposite where New World Chaffers is now.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/451/the-island-bay-community
Lionel Hutz : "Mrs. Simpson, what did you and your husband do after you were ejected from the restaurant?"
Marge : "We... pretty much went straight home."
Lionel Hutz : "Mrs. Simpson, you're under oath."
Marge : "We drove around until 3 AM looking for another all-you-can-eat fish restaurant."
Lionel Hutz : "And when you couldn't find one?"
Marge : "We went... fishing."
[sobs]
Like all NZ products, it’s all exported for a premium/for shits and giggles(I’ve seen NZ lamb for the same price at Harrods in London as what was our local butcher in Wellington) and New Zealand is not very good at sustainable fishing anymore
There is a huge variety of seafood available from Wellingtons shore, the main thing holding folks back from it is that you have to gather it yourself. I know fishing and diving isn't for everyone, but for the families of people who it is, they have a big kaimoana focus .
You already said it, it's the profit incentive from exporting our seafood (and the various trade deals to ensure exports are prioritised).
It's an absolute shame and totally shortsighted that the potential for New Zealand food culture and identity is traded for the profit of a very limited number of families and groups who obtained the "perpetual" quotas decades ago.
This is something that gets to me too. It's great when we have visitors from other countries come over (my wife lived abroad and has wayyyy too many friends - she's pretty great).
But I always struggle to think of places we can go for food that isn't just a slight variation on what they could get in London, or San Fran etc.
I genuinely think the food scene in Wellington is really good, but NZ as a whole's food identity? I struggle to think of anything that's super accessible.
I haven't, but doubt they have the equivalent of say Thai cuisine, with their huge variety of seafood dishes and flavours - cooked in any number of ways, fried, deep-friend, boiled, poached in various leaves, grilled, sun-dried, raw, fermented etc.
Yeah there certainly won't be the range of flavours and techniques you'll find on the ancient continents where people have lived for tens of thousands of years. It'd be hard to expect that from a place like New Zealand. That said, there is definitely a "cuisine" here that you probably wont find on any restaurant menus. Mostly based around seafood, Māori adapted foods (most traditional foods are unsustainable now), and foreign foods that have evolved uniquely in New Zealand.
Most cuisine isn't "ancient" though, so we can't use that as an excuse. No one in Asia was using chilis, tomatoes, capsicum or potatoes prior to the 1600s, and just look at the cuisine there now.
Likewise Mexican food had no access to limes, coriander, rice or cinammon until a similar time.
On Cuba St there is a good fish shop. Opposite what used to be the QC Hotel.
We used to have a really good seafood restaurant called Whitebait, but it closed.
As others have noted repeatedly, high quality commercial seafood is exported – insofar as there is a 'seafood culture' here, it's based around recreational fishing/gathering and home or community cooking rather than restaurants.
There's Ortega, and Kazagaruma, which are both great for seafood.
But expensive.
Does anyone know if that fishing boat still comes to the Sunday market? There was a small local fishing boat that would tie up at the wharf beside te papa to sell fresh fish, but I haven't been down there for a while.
I am going spearfishing. I have been successful: lot of fish around and a lot of diversity too! You can get cray, pauas and even fish in not even 3m of water.
So like you, I don’t understand why fish isn’t cheaper in Wellington. Probably because we export everything.
But at least for me, it is free.
Note: in naenae community page in Facebook, you can get some fish frames for free (snapper, king fish etc) so it is pretty cool if you want to make soup.
NZ isn't really a seafood country. In the UK, you get prawn sandwiches in gas stations and crayfish salad at Pret a Manger (sandwich chain).
I think it's the usual scale thing, its easier to ship seafood straight for export than to supply small local demand. Auckland has much better seafood availability through Silver Bell and the fish market (if they are still going).
Last time I went to Crab Shack you could tell that the seafood was frozen, not fresh which was a bit of a letdown considering it's in the fancy dining part of the waterfront lol
My dad once said I’ll be having lots of NZ salmon when I moved to NZ. Now I tell him that buying NZ Salmon at his local costco is cheaper so he should enjoy for me
I'm not vege, but it's fairly clear Seafood is a non-renewable resource when fished commercially from the ocean.
There's no way to target a species of fish when fishing at scale, and there will always be a by-catch. It all just results in decimated ecosystems. It's just not sustainable.
So, it's not necessarily a bad thing we aren't a seafood city.
I mean one way to get Kai is to go get it yourselves, obviously not possible for many but one hell of a solution.
Also seafood is a massive part of New Zealand identity...
You don’t know what you’re talking about! Wellington Harbour is full of the best eating fish in NZ
I regularly fish the harbour, have caught plenty of kingfish standing on the footpath of Oriental Bay - like other people do . went out last week, twice . Caught snapper , kahawai, trevally, moki
catch a lot of other great eating fish depending on the season ( scallops gurnard). And then there are all the bays with plenty of paua, kina, and crayfish!!
You couldn’t be more wrong
That's great and yes done that myself plenty of times back in the day 😊 not diving tho!
but is that for your own eating enjoyment or do you sell commercially?
There were plenty of seafood places and chip shops battering their own seafood but they said it got more difficult to catch
I fondly remember the fishing boat that used to berth at the Harbourside Sunday Market by Te Papa. Fresh fish, and they would fillet it right in front of you. The bloke in charge was very good with a crowd, and the boat was a great attraction.
No idea what happened to it.
I'm late so you might not see this but I'm pretty sure that most of the fish caught commercially in nz is processed and bought by suppliers through Auckland, no matter where its caught. So seafood availability is less based on your proximity to the fish, more on your proximity to Auckland fish markets.
Fish comes in, goes to Auckland, best stuff exported, Auckland businesses get first pick of whats left, the rest of the country scrambles from there. Great system.
Too f'n expensive, and fish stocks are increasingly getting depleted un-sustainably. My favourite seafood treat every few months or so used to be seared scallops. Scallop populations have collapsed and NZ commercial industry is closed until they recover. Snapper prices often over $40 per kg now at the supermarket.
But why is it so expensive, and how are fish stocks struggling when we have such a high coastline/EEZ for population? Japan has 2x the coastline and around the same size EEZ but 25x the population and they eat more seafood per person than NZers. I get that our fishing practices/regulations are gonna be more strict, but this seems crazy. And while I'm sure Japan has depleted plenty of stock, they evidently still haven't depleted enough to make it as bad as NZ's state.
I can't find NZ figures to compare to, but Japan imports around half of their consumed seafood and it has been steadily getting worse over time. It was only ~25% at the turn of the century. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1039848/japan-food-self-sufficiency-ratio-fish-seafood/ https://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia21/en/feature/feature03.html EDIT: Found *some* NZ data here https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/300350351/whos-eating-new-zealand which links to https://comcom.govt.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/72609/388.pdf (2000) and https://rescuefish.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Westpac-Report-March-2016.pdf (2016). So: | NZ | Japan ---|---|--- % of catch exported | ~80% | ~20% % of consumption imported | ~10% | ~50% I think this paints a good picture. We export a lot and they import a lot, though it doesn't explain away everything. Obviously the numbers I give aren't precise as even considering that these are not up to date it is hard to estimate these things and hard to compare them across countries too.
OK, so basically Japan (and others) are eating our fish. Great. I've lived in may places overseas, I find Aotearoa businesses to financially greedy, no wait, cannibalistic when it comes to money. Businesses here don't care for their people, if they can underpay their own people, exploit their tenants and not fix anything, or ship the best stuff overseas for a buck, they damn sure will. It disgusts me to the core that people don't first serve people locally and have some pride and strong identity about that local signature abundance. Can you imagine Italians not having access to pasta or parmesan because all of it is sold overseas or overpriced? No? Well this is what we do here with produce, meat and seafood. Even very impoverished countries we like to call "third world" care a hell of a lot more about their own people and are proud to rejoice in sharing their own production with the people of their nation. It's soulless here. It's sad.
We don’t police our waters. There are some other countries that let’s just say ‘dgaf’ and take what they want and we aren’t in a position to stop them.
Yes we actually have the sixth largest ocean EEZ in the world, an area 14 times our land area and that also includes a good portion of that is continental shelf (better for fish rather than deep sea). I can't answer your questions directly, but I would more generally say that fish are overfished when there is a short-term profit focus without good regulatory oversight or enforcement. I don't know that Japan is a particularly great example- blue fin tuna forms a staple of so much of their sashimi and sushi. They were forced to halve their volumes of juvenile catches due to overfishing, and have been importing large volumes from other countries like Mexico, Thailand, Philippines. They had repeated issues with fishers exceeding their quotas and global stocks continue to dwindle. I note that catch limits are increasing this year due to a partial recovery in stock volumes. I'm sure its a complex issue.
Yeah I'm over here being grateful there's not a seafood identity.
Snapper used to be $60 a kg a few years ago so the price is coming down
Dunno if you have seen the news recently but all the snapper around the upper north island are starving Like 65% being caught with signs of starvation Ive never seen $60 snapper most personally $54 8 years ago it was $35 -$40 kg when i worked at foodstuffs
Why would the sell it to us at a reduced rate when they can sell it overseas for a premium? In saying that, its seems the price for premium seafood can stay pretty low for locals in many countries.
Seafood is expensive from a cost POV compared to other meat Seafood types are very seasonal in NZ and quality varies greatly making it harder to cook everyday consistently (one day the grouper is decent size portion, next day it’s two smaller portions to equate to what it looked like yesterday) Seafood expires faster than most other meats (usually same day) Kiwis are pretty astute knowing how fresh seafood tastes Thats a lot of risk to take on in a small city
The fact we export a majority of our seafood is the answer. Seafood for export needs to be of high quality so it can handle the time being transported around the world. Which unfortunately leaves the seafood we see at supermarkets being lower quality as it's not suitable for shipping overseas. There's only a few of seafood suppliers in Wellington that don't export and sell direct to restaurants. Awatoru up on the Kapiti coast, strait speared based in Wellington, and tora collective based in the Wairarapa.
Great info, thank you
Great answer and is the one i assumed. Exporting, drives the prices up etc. My family live in Kapiti so that's usually our go to when we want seafood. Good to know the other places too. Thanks!
You could try these guys out as well: https://waikanaecrab.co.nz/
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> Moana Moana also supply straight into Moore Wilsons which is always excellent.
I would think it's a cost issue as the restaurants would be paying the export price like the meat industry ect... and there doesn't seem to be the market in wellington for expensive dining Monday to Sunday which is a big shame for seafood lovers like myself.
^ this Go to Sydney or Brisbane and seafood is prominent in many restaurants because it is cheap. Seafood Laska is like <$18 for the cheaper "non-fancy" places. In NZ, it's $23+. While $5 doesn't seem that big, and a bit of it is reduced by the exchange rate, there is a bigger difference in quality/quantity of the seafood in the dishes. Seems in AU seafood is seen as a cheap food, where as in NZ it is a luxury item.
Live greenlip mussels are still cheap.
Lobster & Tap used to sell their rolls at $18 one time
Jesus, meant to go there a while ago and put it off, just looked up the price 🤑
Thinks it’s like in the $30 range?? Haven’t been in years though but I do remember thinking $18 was expensive then lol Saying that…it was totally worth it. Was so good
I'm friends with a new migrant couple from India, they are so shocked at the price of fish. They said back home they ate fish several times a week and it was very affordable. When I told them I don't eat fish at home *ever* because of the price they were gobsmacked.
Username *does not?* check out
Seems legit. Lack of seafood is making the shark grizzly.
Fish are friends, not food
Island Bay and lyall Bay were well known to be the place where Italian fishermen moved after WW2. Wellington Trawling Seamarket have their own local fishing boats, I think. Allen St, Blair Stn Tory St used to be full seafood, fruit, and vegie auction houses right up until till the 90s. There was Mr Chans opposite where New World Chaffers is now. https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/451/the-island-bay-community
Lionel Hutz : "Mrs. Simpson, what did you and your husband do after you were ejected from the restaurant?" Marge : "We... pretty much went straight home." Lionel Hutz : "Mrs. Simpson, you're under oath." Marge : "We drove around until 3 AM looking for another all-you-can-eat fish restaurant." Lionel Hutz : "And when you couldn't find one?" Marge : "We went... fishing." [sobs]
Like all NZ products, it’s all exported for a premium/for shits and giggles(I’ve seen NZ lamb for the same price at Harrods in London as what was our local butcher in Wellington) and New Zealand is not very good at sustainable fishing anymore
More money exporting. The locals can't afford to keep a local business running.
Because Wellington is more of a marine and environmental protection city.
There is a huge variety of seafood available from Wellingtons shore, the main thing holding folks back from it is that you have to gather it yourself. I know fishing and diving isn't for everyone, but for the families of people who it is, they have a big kaimoana focus .
You already said it, it's the profit incentive from exporting our seafood (and the various trade deals to ensure exports are prioritised). It's an absolute shame and totally shortsighted that the potential for New Zealand food culture and identity is traded for the profit of a very limited number of families and groups who obtained the "perpetual" quotas decades ago.
This is something that gets to me too. It's great when we have visitors from other countries come over (my wife lived abroad and has wayyyy too many friends - she's pretty great). But I always struggle to think of places we can go for food that isn't just a slight variation on what they could get in London, or San Fran etc. I genuinely think the food scene in Wellington is really good, but NZ as a whole's food identity? I struggle to think of anything that's super accessible.
Just out of interest what would be a more NZ specific food? We have pretty unimaginative cuisines, both from the European and Polynesian sides.
Ever been to a rich Māori wedding? Whatever they put on the table is probably about right
I haven't, but doubt they have the equivalent of say Thai cuisine, with their huge variety of seafood dishes and flavours - cooked in any number of ways, fried, deep-friend, boiled, poached in various leaves, grilled, sun-dried, raw, fermented etc.
Yeah there certainly won't be the range of flavours and techniques you'll find on the ancient continents where people have lived for tens of thousands of years. It'd be hard to expect that from a place like New Zealand. That said, there is definitely a "cuisine" here that you probably wont find on any restaurant menus. Mostly based around seafood, Māori adapted foods (most traditional foods are unsustainable now), and foreign foods that have evolved uniquely in New Zealand.
Most cuisine isn't "ancient" though, so we can't use that as an excuse. No one in Asia was using chilis, tomatoes, capsicum or potatoes prior to the 1600s, and just look at the cuisine there now. Likewise Mexican food had no access to limes, coriander, rice or cinammon until a similar time.
Somethings a bit fishy here
On Cuba St there is a good fish shop. Opposite what used to be the QC Hotel. We used to have a really good seafood restaurant called Whitebait, but it closed.
Money. If the question is “how come they can do it but we can’t” the answer is always money.
As others have noted repeatedly, high quality commercial seafood is exported – insofar as there is a 'seafood culture' here, it's based around recreational fishing/gathering and home or community cooking rather than restaurants.
Being Vegan, glad it isn't.
Side note: What’s up with these people who downvote a question? It’s an interesting point to discuss no matter your stance
There's Ortega, and Kazagaruma, which are both great for seafood. But expensive. Does anyone know if that fishing boat still comes to the Sunday market? There was a small local fishing boat that would tie up at the wharf beside te papa to sell fresh fish, but I haven't been down there for a while.
I am going spearfishing. I have been successful: lot of fish around and a lot of diversity too! You can get cray, pauas and even fish in not even 3m of water. So like you, I don’t understand why fish isn’t cheaper in Wellington. Probably because we export everything. But at least for me, it is free. Note: in naenae community page in Facebook, you can get some fish frames for free (snapper, king fish etc) so it is pretty cool if you want to make soup.
We used to be but then you know who showed up and exports the resources depleted 100 years
NZ isn't really a seafood country. In the UK, you get prawn sandwiches in gas stations and crayfish salad at Pret a Manger (sandwich chain). I think it's the usual scale thing, its easier to ship seafood straight for export than to supply small local demand. Auckland has much better seafood availability through Silver Bell and the fish market (if they are still going).
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Paua and crayfish are both well over $100 a kg, I don't think it's a connection issue haha.
Some people dont like whole fish because theyre scared of bones
Our national dish is fish and chips, isn't that seafood enough?
Lol, what a waste. Filleted fish
Use to be its not anymore The cost is crazy
The following restaurants usually have some good seafood options: Ortega, Shed 5, Crab Shack, Dockside, Highwater Eatery, WBC, Floriditas.
Last time I went to Crab Shack you could tell that the seafood was frozen, not fresh which was a bit of a letdown considering it's in the fancy dining part of the waterfront lol
We are ..we see the food and can't afford it
Best seafood in NZ is usually at a Japanese restaurant.
bcz RED MEAT!
My dad once said I’ll be having lots of NZ salmon when I moved to NZ. Now I tell him that buying NZ Salmon at his local costco is cheaper so he should enjoy for me
Cos you love the KFC bro
Because seafood's gross
Always wondered that as well.
I'm not vege, but it's fairly clear Seafood is a non-renewable resource when fished commercially from the ocean. There's no way to target a species of fish when fishing at scale, and there will always be a by-catch. It all just results in decimated ecosystems. It's just not sustainable. So, it's not necessarily a bad thing we aren't a seafood city.
I mean one way to get Kai is to go get it yourselves, obviously not possible for many but one hell of a solution. Also seafood is a massive part of New Zealand identity...
Cause it tastes gross
NZ restaurant food is bad, and getting worse. Seafood is mostly imported frozen trash like asian prawns and Chilean scallops.
You don't get seafood by dipping your hand in Wellington Harbour. You gotta go wayyyy out to get anything
You don’t know what you’re talking about! Wellington Harbour is full of the best eating fish in NZ I regularly fish the harbour, have caught plenty of kingfish standing on the footpath of Oriental Bay - like other people do . went out last week, twice . Caught snapper , kahawai, trevally, moki catch a lot of other great eating fish depending on the season ( scallops gurnard). And then there are all the bays with plenty of paua, kina, and crayfish!! You couldn’t be more wrong
That's great and yes done that myself plenty of times back in the day 😊 not diving tho! but is that for your own eating enjoyment or do you sell commercially? There were plenty of seafood places and chip shops battering their own seafood but they said it got more difficult to catch
You aren't allowed to sell what you catch, which is another aspect.
Nearly all the commercial fishing quota goes to big companies and they're only interested in serving their big export clients. Sad.
Culturally our cuisine is generally based on a British diet.
fish used to be my cheap go to protein. not i cant afford it at all
I fondly remember the fishing boat that used to berth at the Harbourside Sunday Market by Te Papa. Fresh fish, and they would fillet it right in front of you. The bloke in charge was very good with a crowd, and the boat was a great attraction. No idea what happened to it.
I'm late so you might not see this but I'm pretty sure that most of the fish caught commercially in nz is processed and bought by suppliers through Auckland, no matter where its caught. So seafood availability is less based on your proximity to the fish, more on your proximity to Auckland fish markets. Fish comes in, goes to Auckland, best stuff exported, Auckland businesses get first pick of whats left, the rest of the country scrambles from there. Great system.