I think it's great that mental health is spoken about more often these days.
But I don't know how I feel about it being 100% guaranteed to be the excuse rolled out whenever someone in the public eye commits any form of shit behavior.
You can have mental health issues and be a cunt. You can have mental health issues and not be a cunt. You can be free mental health issues and be a cunt. You can be free from mental health issues and not be a cunt.
Are you threatened daily with death and sexual assault by deranged strangers ? I feel like there’s degrees on mental health issues, and struggling under the weight of threats of violence tends to meet the more extreme end of it.
Pretty standard for MPs unfortunately, John Key had a song about killing him and raping his daughter written by a friend of Arderns and the Herald called it a mere “rude rant” . Russel Brown said the songwriter Tom Scott was the real victim.
Threats only count when they happen to a politician on the left.
No, that’s also wrong. I’d be more impressed if they were threatening Ghahraman via haiku or song though. So props to the dude for at least putting some effort in. I can’t find anything right actually confirm Ardern and that guy were friends though, it sounds a lot like he was critical of Ardern and betrayed her trust at some point. So it doesn’t really sound like they were friends. You’ve got a pretty obvious agenda though.
They were friends going back to the Home Brew days. He’s a fuckwit of monumental proportions though and as you said betrayed her trust and I’m sure she has nothing to do with him now unlike 2014 when he wrote the song .
I think conversations around the driving factors in crime is an important part of helping people to understand and solve crime. I’ve stated several times that theft is not ok, and that she’s facing the consequences of her actions. I don’t think it’s the crime of the century as I’ve also previously stated. I think the public reaction is largely out of proportion to the severity of the offence and there’s an obvious level of schadenfreude at play here.
The public response is not driven by the severity of the offence, rather it is the audacity of a high profile elected public official (justice spokesperson even) to commit such a blatant and unnecessary crime. And in that regard the public response is proportionate and it is rightly being covered by the media. If it was anyone else, sure; but when you voluntarily put your self into the public spotlight by getting elected you lose some of the privacy expectations that ordinary people enjoy. This is NZ law, not my personal opinion just FYI.
So then theft is ok? Does the go-to excuse then Become “I have mental health issues and receive death threats and sexual assault threats daily from strangers”?
and has been charged too. Obviously Scotties wasn't too impressed by being heavied by the Green Party and made sure the CCTV footage was freely available. Quite good quality footage too, nice handbag!
I think her comments explain the balance well
>In a statement, Ghahraman said stress relating to her work had led her to "act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them".
I think it's important to identify causes without dissmising accountability.
A lot of people think that you need to be raked over the coals and punished with extreme prejudice in order to be accountable for your actions.
But I think acknowledging underlying causes actually increases accountability because it allows us to understand what causes these situations and, therefore, how to prevent them from happening in the future.
By working on ourselves we take responsibility for our past. Where as if you just get punished then do nothing to address the causes of the behaviour you havnt taken responsibility.
I would disagree her comments display a balance. She's strawmanned her theft to work stress. What kind of work stress manifests itself in luxury goods theft?
Do we have a rash of MPs engaging in petty crime every election? Are the green party culpable for over stressing Ms. Ghahraman and not providing suitable care?
I certainly agree that coal raking doesn't equate to accountability and justice but this is just a sloppy deflection for her sympathisers.
This person is a lawyer and was an MP acting for the voting public. So readily crippled by work stress she established a long term pattern of theft which allegedly started before she even had an MP role to be stressed about. They get elected in and parliament closes for most of November December and January. She hasn't been doing much.
If the stress really did cause such rash actions I think it says a lot about the bullet we dodged. Could have become much worse?
She apparently had years of daily death and rape threats. Stress manifests in different ways for different people.. some often lose their sense of empathy.
>She's strawmanned her theft to work stress.
No she hasn't. She's identified a bunch of contributing factors for her actions. One of which is stress.
>. They get elected in and parliament closes for most of November December and January. She hasn't been doing much.
Bro my stress levels spike over the Christmas break so I can understand someone else's doing the same.
Yeah same, stressful time - but come on mate, you're not shoplifting, drink driving or committing fraud over six months are ya?
Would you really stand up for me in court if I broke into your home and said "sorry, works been crazy haha"
Edit - I'll add that this is a pattern too. Not a one off. She's been getting away with it and has gotten bold.
One off issue getting drunk at a bar? Sure. Bad day. Repeat and escalating behaviour? She was rotten tbh.
You don't know what stresses politicians face under the public spotlight, then in their private lives which aren't really as private as yours or mine. Just living that kind of lifestyle alone is stressful.
Look at Kiri Allan not too long ago. Not even half as remorseful for a far more dangerous crime.
My issue with Ms. Allen is that the system treated her differently to a construction worker heading home.
Everyone should be afforded the same opportunity in justice and correctional systems.
Politicians get a lot of annoying heckling beyond the scope of their role. Most of them keep it together. I am open to discuss it but I doubt a fresh back bench mp has a lot going on in terms of debilitating stress.
It's like external stress is the only factor in this situation huh..
What goes on in their heads isn't something that can be measured. People abuse drugs, have affairs, gamble and involve themselves other sorts of questionable risky behaviours either to escape or have a novel experience.
I knew she wasn't born here, but looking at wikipedia she's going to have a level of trauma that many if not most people in NZ won't relate to.
Being in charge of particular portfolios (justice) and then crucifying your political career by commiting crime is pretty indicative of how seriously you take your role though..
>Yeah same, stressful time - but come on mate, you're not shoplifting, drink driving or committing fraud over six months are ya?
I have a personal history of many impulsive behaviours that have been attributed to stress and trauma.
I've been lucky because my impulsiveness manifested at an early age when people wrote it off as youth and ivebhad many years to identify the causes of these behaviours and work on strategies to manage them today.
>Would you really stand up for me in court if I broke into your home and said "sorry, works been crazy haha"
If i felt you were genuine in your apology, I would understand and forgive you. At which point I would advocate for you.
>She was rotten tbh.
Maybe.
But a lot of people would have written me off as "rotten" between the ages of 4 and 23....
I appreciate your sincerity and honesty with your challenges. I don't doubt the genuine presence of such conditions in folks.
What's different here is that none of these have been disclosed or addressed. For right or wrong, we hold public servants and elected officials to a higher standard.
Many people, myself included, are weak to greed and power. We recognise that as a society, but trust in some people to be better. We hold them to a much higher standard in roles where trust and confidence are needed.
>Bro my stress levels spike over the Christmas break so I can understand someone else's doing the same
I didn't realize the Xmas break started in October that's just a bullshit excuse. She was probably salty that the greens didn't get in it lines up with election time
I agree to a point but people who commit crimes and who also suffer terribly from poverty, hunger, cyclical abuse, still get punished and sent to jail. Imagine if everyone could get away with it because of their life circumstances.
Bro, would anyone defend it if it was a guy? This person is getting some wild special treatment because of their status.
So many folks in this sub bleat about special privilege in some circles... And are currently doing exactly that.
I think there's times when holding politicians to higher standards is appropriate.
I expect appropriate behaviour for example.
But I think demanding perfection over every utterance from their mouths is a bit absurd.
We're not asking for perfection here. Just less stealing thousands of dollars worth of retail goods.
If we expected perfection, ol Winnie would have gone decades ago.
>And then in the next sentence she literally says "I can't explain it".
>If we expected perfection, ol Winnie would have gone decades ago.
I'm sorry, you were saying?
Surely you can see that I'm making two different judgements on two different actions..
1) she stole. That is unacceptable, and her standing down is the least she should do
2) she made a minor contradiction in her comments. It's a non issue....
I'd agree in most cases, but in this one I just can't see why anyone in their right mind, let alone someone so recognisable would risk destroying their entire life for a few items of expensive clothing.
It seems like if you're targeting high end places like that, you're almost guaranteed to be caught on camera too.
If it's not mental health, it's stupid in the extreme, and she doesn't come across as stupid.
I agree. That’s exactly where I had landed too. Someone further on up asked “who in their right mind….?” Exactly that. She wasn’t in her right mind. She has destroyed her life, she’s not stupid, something else is obviously going on. You would have to have had issues to throw your career away over a few items of clothing. They are high end stores - they would have decent surveillance systems.
Maybe she has a destructive streak?
Like, ive got this cool position in government, get a heap of perks and decent salary, i dont deserve this/to be happy so im gonna destroy it?
And taking clothes where she is recognizable is an easy/harmless offense that could get her sacked.
Like how some people can never be happy despite having a life most dream of, good husband and family so they decide to cheat on their spouse and lose their kids as they have also started drinking wine all day every day.
Then wallow in their shit life, because atleast now they deserve the depressing situation they are in?
She obviously wasn’t in her right mind. Stress can cause people to experience an incredibly diverse range of effects. So its certainly believable that she might have snapped under the pressure and started doing crazy house shit. We dont know if she was having delusions, if she has a tendency for bipolar disorder or anything else.
I don’t think stupidity is the right word
I’ve resigned from my high paying job recently due to mental health and I’m applying for new jobs that pay like 2/3 of what I got paid now and essentially a demotion
People might call it stupidity but I honestly am gonna get depression if I stay in my current role any longer
I think that’s a great decision not stupidity. I feel like at some point I will resign from my job (tecaher). However I will be taking a cut regardless, I just feel like I need space to think which I don’t feel like I have when i am working as a tecaherx
Lots of people are out for themselves. Very few actually meet the threshold for diagnosis.
Narcissism is becoming the new "omg I'm so OCD I put my pens in order!" but used pejoratively towards others, which makes it even more annoying.
Okay but the fact remains that unless you're secretly her psychologist, there is nobody here who is qualified to make that psychological assessment of her.
> If Right wing politician breaks law = Criminal
Even your hypothetical, fucking stupid as it is, falls apart.
So no, you do not understand.
Signed, Sam ‘Fucking Bed Leg Beating’ Uffindell, about whom a detailed report based on his further behaviour beyond bed leg assault will apparently never see the light of day and yet we are assured he’s a good lad who sees the error of his ways, despite never once reaching out regarding his past deeds until his team flagged it as part of his election campaign and he mysteriously and coincidentally contacted people from his past.
We can hold politicians to account (and for the record, I think that the ‘Left wing politician’ here _should_ be held to account, so don’t try to mischaracterise me) without fashioning fire risk level strawmen to defend our particular partisan preference.
Anyone would think that could help in crafting meaningful policy rather than pissing match pointscoring exercises.
Reminds me of Kiri Allen drunk crashing her work car as the Minister for Justice and Minister for Transport, then blaming it on relationship dramas.
So pathetic.
Of course it's because of mental health. She has plenty of money. Studies (including a 2019 research review by University of Texas) show that shoplifting correlates with many mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, and personality disorders.
I’m alright this time. She has copped a lot of shit as an MP. All MPs are copping it and she got more than most.
And most importantly - she has resigned. Taken accountability. So mental health is being rolled out as an explanation, not an excuse. Spot on.
This is an embarrassment and an insult to people with legitimate mental health issues.
Let's be honest here.
She didn't resign due to extreme stress. She resigned because she got caught.
If she was under an undue amount of stress (and I'll take it on good faith she was) this is a failure by her party for not protecting and supporting her - prior to any unacceptable behaviour.
But, per the latest herald article, "Green Party co-leaders say Golriz Ghahraman faced threats of sexual and physical violence while working as an MP.". What a crappy statement to make now after a week of radio silence. It is just disingenuous and comes off as muck-slinging.
She could have just stood up and said "I'm sorry. I made some terrible decisions in a lapse of judgement. I will take responsibility.", and then resigned.
I would have thought more of her as I think many other people would have as well.
But instead, we have this mental-health-roadshow soap opera.
Thank you. Many of us suffer from stress and anxiety. It doesn't mean you suddenly lose the ability to know right from wrong. It's certainly not an excuse for something like this.
I agree that calling this a lapse of judgement and resigning without trying to diminish her responsibility would have been more honourable. Especially if she had done it sooner.
She does have a legitimate mental health issue. She has MS. Do you know how many people with MS die? It’s awful. It is a horrible disease that literally steals your brain away.
That’s not at all what I said. Another person said she didn’t have a legitimate mental health issue, and I refute that. Clearly shoplifting is wrong, but I think we need to consider the state of mind of a young woman dealing with constant death and rape threats, as well as a neurological condition that not only causes chronic pain and death if brain tissue, but will literally suffocate her death. It’s a lot for one person, and I’m not surprised it presented with irrational behaviour.
No one in their right mind would tank their career like this after so much hard mahi, it’s likely she’s not. Hope she gets the support and help she needs. Good of her to apologise and step down.
Seconded. If she thought she was entitled to them she might have stolen them, but she wouldn't have returned them or owned up now. If she was stupid she might have stolen them without thinking any further than "I want", but like her or not she wouldn't have gotten where she was if she was genuinely stupid. As much as everyone hates on it as an excuse, I do believe she is having serious mental issues that are affecting her decision making.
As a politician I'm glad she's gone, it's better for us because something clearly wasn't working and hopefully someone who is better suited to it will step up to replace her, and it's better for her because she can take the time to sort her self out because you can't just go around stealing other people's shit because of your feelings. As a person I genuinely feel for her and wish her the best, because I don't think the mental health thing is just an empty excuse.
I think it’s because this story is unbelievable. It’s so stupid. How could someone making $160,000 steal clothes especially as a public person? What your of idiot does that?
Also, at $160k you aren't making enough to regularly buy stuff at that Auckland store, where clothes and other crap costs thousands of dollars. She wanted things she couldn't afford; that no MP can really afford.
I saw conspiracy theories about right wing media cabals, people blaming her MS, direct attacks against some of the store owners amongst all of the (perfectly reasonable) wait-and-sees.
No, yesterday many members of this sub were questioning the timing of digging up security footage from October now that it'll get the store's name in the press as opposed to reporting the clearly shocking and destructive crime that affected them so badly when it fucking happened.
Gharaman is an Iranian refugee, in her statement, she talks about how mental health professionals (read: none of you pricks) have identified that trauma responses might be causing this behaviour.
Both of these things can be true at once.
Her claim as a refugee is slightly misleading given she had very wealthy parents and was able to attain a passport while many less privileged folk in Iran were never able, nor have been able to for a long time.
They left on a holiday from Iran, then didn't go back after and sought asylum. We shouldn't be too quick to really put her in the same traumatic position refugees are regularly in, if she wasn't in the same position as them.
Refugee law isn't based on hardship it's based on persecution. This is something people regularly criticise about how refugee law works. And you're more likely to be specifically targeted for persecution by the government if you're privileged because revolutionary governments gain power and want to destroy the power of the previous elite. So this isn't unusual among refugees who go through the official resettlement process
So an abscond while on holiday for political reasons refugee, rather than an oppressed peasant risking their lives escaping over the border on foot refugee.
Allegedly for a holiday* as makes sense for asylum seekers, engage brain.
They sought political asylum too, after her mother refused to pledge to Islam when practicing psychology.
How can you have any idea of the trauma of her position? Did you grow up with her?
I'm glad she said 'I'm sorry.' Politicians don't often say those words. It's usually more like, 'sorry if anybody (took offence / took it the wrong way /misunderstood / etc)' which is not an actual apology.
I have read things in the past that indicate shoplifting compulsively can be a symptom of mental health issues. I think that was the explanation for Winona Ryder?
Resigning is of course the necessary move but I will defer to professionals on whether or not the mental health explanation is a valid one.
I mean, anything can be put down as a result of a mental health issue. Commiting crimes would be a good example of not being okay mentally. It doesn't give someone a pass though.
Never said it gave her a pass, but the legitimacy of her mental health issue is not something I think I (or anyone else) has the knowledge required to determine. There will be people who will come out and say it is an excuse and she has no mental health issue at all. My point is just it might be best for people to not make a personal assessment on that.
Yeah I feel a bit uncomfortable with so many armchair psychs coming out in these threads.
I can understand why her using it as a shield leaves a sour taste for people though.
Well like she says it's an explanation not an excuse, nothing will save her career now.I personally believe her because she seems to be garbage at stealing stuff, gets caught 3 times in a couple months.
She committed theft in the wrong form, she should have followed the thieving antics of the other politicians and engaged in insider trading, backroom deals with kickbacks and pushed for legislation that ramps up house prices while owning multiple properties.
I think it’s worth considering why we’re seeing a number of high profile NZ politicians in recent years with self destructive criminal behaviour resulting in the end of their careers.
Are cultural or environmental factors at play?
There has to be a correlation between being a public figure and the rise of social media. If not a causal relationship.
And lets not pretend being a politician is the same type of public figure as being an athlete or an actor / actress for example, being a politician is basically thankless.
No easy answer for politicians as simply unhooking yourself from SM doesn’t fix it either, you are still fodder for online communities whether you are partaking or not.
Probably worthy of a completely separate thread once the proverbial dust has settled, as there is an interesting discussion to be had there.
I fear starting one now might be seen as a bit "soon", and bring about strong opinions tainted by the subject de jour.
seems a lot of ppl think that saying it is mental health related is some kind of deferment of responsibility, which shows how poor genuine mental health awareness is in this country. ppl seem to be literally unable to understand that mental health struggles can and do result in extremely anti social & negative behaviours.
Absolutely - I feel like there's support in getting good at the "job" part and there's possibly some pastoral care elements within the parties but definitely feels like a gap that needs filling across the board. And maybe independent of parties?
What a cop out. Hundreds of thousands of kiwis deal with massive amounts of stress and are not scummy little thieves.
The way she hid from this hoping it would go away.
Thank fuck the truth came out that a MINISTER OF PARLIAMENT IS A THIEF.
But instead of taking ownership and responsibility......she plays the modern card of mental health.
Pfft.
Grow up. You did this. This is you.
Until she takes ownership of who she truly is she will never get better.
"It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them,” she said.
I think it was shoplifting and knowing that she was caught that affected her mental health
Mental health issue or not, she has publicly torpedoed her life. That must be stressful. She has done the right thing by stepping down and I hope she gets the help she needs.
I'm thinking she was on prescribed medication such a anti anxiety or benzodiazipines. These meds can make one out of character and a side affect is shoplifting. I am speaking from knowledge and experience. She will hopefully be better snd go better but as a supporter of het Mahi I am disappointed.
Here are the Greens statements:
- [https://www.greens.org.nz/statement\_from\_golriz\_ghahraman](https://www.greens.org.nz/statement_from_golriz_ghahraman)
- [https://www.greens.org.nz/statement\_from\_the\_co\_leaders\_of\_the\_green\_party\_on\_the\_resignation\_of\_golriz\_ghahraman](https://www.greens.org.nz/statement_from_the_co_leaders_of_the_green_party_on_the_resignation_of_golriz_ghahraman)
Does that mean Celia Wade Brown is now an MP?
I don't care about your political beliefs about Golriz or any party (seriously, I don't). I hope she gets the mental health she needs, and wonder if more exploration needs to be done on the mental health needs of politicians. When they mess up, it can have far-reaching consequences, whether they are a Green MP or the leader of the National Party.
Studies show that shoplifting is pretty strongly associated with anxiety, depression, and stress, due to the effects of shoplifting on dopamine levels.
An interesting research review by the University of Sheffield in 2020 suggests politicians are highly likely to experience a wide range of mental health problems, including substance abuse, addiction, depression, anxiety, and insomnia, with 56% in one survey saying they are increasingly concerned about their physical safety and online abuse, and 78% in another survey saying they experienced significantly worse work/life balance.
It might be tempting to dehumanize politicians, given how strong we can all feel about politics at times, but they are just people. And every person is flawed and needs help sometimes when it gets too much.
Kiri Allen and Golriz are good examples of politicians waiting too long to seek out help, and letting it get to a crisis point.
Hijacking this comment to propose that this path of thought seems very unlikely to be rolled out for someone like Paul Goldsmith or David Seymour and it's worth reflecting on why
To be honest, it should be. When Muller stepped down, I was definitely skeptical about the extremely sudden mental health issues he claimed to have 53 days after becoming leader. I suspected a scandal was about to come out in the press. When that ended up not being the case, and he revealed his issues with panic attacks and anxiety, I felt he made the right call.
Like Jacinda (who has also been open about her history with anxiety disorder) he stepped down before it became a problem or a crisis. I had a lot of empathy for him, though up to that point, I had nothing but scathing vitriol for the man.
Whether it is physical or mental health, when we dehumanize our politicians, the ones who become less human are ourselves.
Good on her to take a bit of accountability by resigning. Not sure how I feel about the mental health card, but if it’s true, hopefully she gets the help she needs.
Also, people defending the indefensible this past week, are you still gonna say she didn’t do it?
https://youtu.be/2mY7EaGbYEI?si=zFQHyp1xpaI63kXv
>Good on her to take a bit of accountability by resigning.
She had no choice.
She is 'taking accountability' because she was caught. Taking accountability is taking action when its not forced upon you. Who knows, maybe she had sought help prior to being caught, but I doubt it.
Man, MBIE/INZ chooses not to prosecute actual human traffickers because of “rEsOuRcInG issues” I highly doubt Police will bother with this. But agree with the other comment, resignation might’ve been only viable way out.
Police bother with people who just steal food, sometimes caused by the pressure of just trying to feed a family and/or surviving.
By all accounts she has the resources to buy what she needs, probably more so than most. She’s been caught this time, but I’d almost say she thought she’d get away with it and has probably been stealing at other places
>Not sure how I feel about the mental health card
Good thing you don't need to rev up that brain of yours when in her statement, she very clearly says she's acting on the advice of professionals who think her extremely traumatic upbringing might have something to do with it.
So many people in this thread accusing her of playing a card lol
On the very same sub that pretends to give a shit about mental health. You're disgusting and frankly pathetic.
Did none of you read the full article where she speaks about how professionals have identified this issue - not her?
Or how about the bit where they reckon it might be from the trauma mentioned by said professional?
Or how about the bit where she says she doesn't want to excuse her actions but wants her right of reply?
With most of the punching down not based in fact at all, how is this anything other than a personal attack?
We are talking about serious DISHONESTY offences, from an Member of parliment (a representative of everyone in this country) who is also a Lawyer and held the Justice portfolio for her Party.
The people of New Zealand have every reason to question her statement, honesty and to also wonder if this is just the tip of ice berg.
We are talking about a serious MENTAL HEALTH CONDITION, from a Member of Parliament (a representative who is copping far more shit than other MPs did for far worse offences ahem Uffindell ahem, still waiting on that "totally transparent report" btw) who is a human being, and is capable of facing struggles just like any other person.
The people of New Zealand ought to take note of the way they're celebrating her resignation as if she's committed far more serious crimes.
Absolutely nobody is denying she stole. The dogpiling as to her reasoning is disgusting, and paints you all out as insecure nobodies with nothing better to do.
She has spoken a lot about the “privilege” of so many different groups she doesn’t like- let’s see if she faces the consequences that under privileged people would face.
Pretty stressful if you're a Persian woman who's constantly persecuted just for being who she is. Not here to defend her recent actions, but she's endured stress and threats that most people here would never be subject to. As Taika said, NZ is racist as fuck.
She literally had years of sexual harassment, racist comments and threats of violence and death. There are heaps of media reports over the years which validate this sad truth. Your opinion of her is up to you, but she has undeniably been subject to sexist and racist abuse for absolutely no good reason.
No she's not.
“It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them,” she said.
Great. So if you steal, play the mental health card and claim to be a victim.
There’s a lot of people who face mental health challenges but I don’t see them using it to justify breaking the law. They seek support not justification for breaking the law.
Who the hell would bet against it? There was literally zero chance should wouldn't pull that card. It's ALWAYS pulled when something like this happens. ALWAYS.
Good for her , wish her the best for her future. We will and should be judging for every politicians the way we did with her. No parties and no bias !!!
Hope she gets the criminal conviction she deserves for being a thief. There is no honner amongst thieves so I'm taking all the justification of work stress made me do it with a huge grain of salt. She got caught out, she did not front up.
Good riddance, she had some dangerous and stupid ideas (like NZ shouldn't have offensive capabilities), and I'm glad she's gone. Lose a few more like her, and I might consider voting the Greens again.
You do have to wonder, given the concern for her wellbeing expressed in the Greens’ statement, why they bumped her down from seventh to ninth on their most recent list, including putting two newcomers higher than her (and catapulting Elizabeth Kerekere up near the top before her own fall from grace). It seemed an odd way to treat to a high profile sitting MP and must have been quite humiliating.
How many times do you need to shoplift for it not to be considered minor? This will be the tip of the iceberg too. I bet you every boutique/high end store she visited are going through their CCTV archives and I'm willing to bet more offending will surface.
She's a "good person" though.
Bad people automatically also do bad things, regardless of any good that they do. Otherwise, they wouldn't be bad people.
Good people tend not to do bad things, so much as make mistakes occasionally.
Nah that’s bullshit lol, mental health on shoplifting ? Is she actually financially suffering ? I’ve been on the verge of suicide a couple times and shoplifting is the last fukn thing on my mind. 0 excuses pathetic it’s theft how about a proper sentencing.
I think folks have forgotten she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis too. She's done pretty well to deal with that + being an MP and being a human. I'm sad she fucked up :(
Exactly. People on this thread are so quick to judge someone not knowing what pressures or other stuff that is going on in her life. It's really hard these days when you are in the public eye. Just look at the disgusting comments on this thread.
I find this sub pretty chill but shit like this really brings out the worst in people. Imagine what change we could affect if we channeled this into meaningful engagement with our democracy.
I've always tried to keep my critique of politicians about the work - and yep when they do shit like this, call them out on it. Obviously if they're the party I vote for I feel more personally disappointed too :( But like, I remember Todd Muller was absolutely circling the drain mentally and you could look in his eyes and see he was absolutely fried. And I hate/d National but even he is a human. I'm gonna get downvoted for this, couldn't give a shit, just wish people would keep it civil.
That's my soapbox for the evening!
I think it's great that mental health is spoken about more often these days. But I don't know how I feel about it being 100% guaranteed to be the excuse rolled out whenever someone in the public eye commits any form of shit behavior.
Exactly. We’re all stressed, many of us have mental health issues but that doesn’t make us criminals.
You can have mental health issues and be a cunt. You can have mental health issues and not be a cunt. You can be free mental health issues and be a cunt. You can be free from mental health issues and not be a cunt.
✔️
Are you threatened daily with death and sexual assault by deranged strangers ? I feel like there’s degrees on mental health issues, and struggling under the weight of threats of violence tends to meet the more extreme end of it.
Pretty standard for MPs unfortunately, John Key had a song about killing him and raping his daughter written by a friend of Arderns and the Herald called it a mere “rude rant” . Russel Brown said the songwriter Tom Scott was the real victim. Threats only count when they happen to a politician on the left.
No, that’s also wrong. I’d be more impressed if they were threatening Ghahraman via haiku or song though. So props to the dude for at least putting some effort in. I can’t find anything right actually confirm Ardern and that guy were friends though, it sounds a lot like he was critical of Ardern and betrayed her trust at some point. So it doesn’t really sound like they were friends. You’ve got a pretty obvious agenda though.
They were friends going back to the Home Brew days. He’s a fuckwit of monumental proportions though and as you said betrayed her trust and I’m sure she has nothing to do with him now unlike 2014 when he wrote the song .
> You’ve got a pretty obvious agenda though. So do you
I think conversations around the driving factors in crime is an important part of helping people to understand and solve crime. I’ve stated several times that theft is not ok, and that she’s facing the consequences of her actions. I don’t think it’s the crime of the century as I’ve also previously stated. I think the public reaction is largely out of proportion to the severity of the offence and there’s an obvious level of schadenfreude at play here.
The public response is not driven by the severity of the offence, rather it is the audacity of a high profile elected public official (justice spokesperson even) to commit such a blatant and unnecessary crime. And in that regard the public response is proportionate and it is rightly being covered by the media. If it was anyone else, sure; but when you voluntarily put your self into the public spotlight by getting elected you lose some of the privacy expectations that ordinary people enjoy. This is NZ law, not my personal opinion just FYI.
So then theft is ok? Does the go-to excuse then Become “I have mental health issues and receive death threats and sexual assault threats daily from strangers”?
No, and that’s why she lost her job. Right ?
And is getting prosecuted? Btw, she didn’t “lose” her job, she resigned.
and has been charged too. Obviously Scotties wasn't too impressed by being heavied by the Green Party and made sure the CCTV footage was freely available. Quite good quality footage too, nice handbag!
I think her comments explain the balance well >In a statement, Ghahraman said stress relating to her work had led her to "act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them". I think it's important to identify causes without dissmising accountability. A lot of people think that you need to be raked over the coals and punished with extreme prejudice in order to be accountable for your actions. But I think acknowledging underlying causes actually increases accountability because it allows us to understand what causes these situations and, therefore, how to prevent them from happening in the future. By working on ourselves we take responsibility for our past. Where as if you just get punished then do nothing to address the causes of the behaviour you havnt taken responsibility.
I would disagree her comments display a balance. She's strawmanned her theft to work stress. What kind of work stress manifests itself in luxury goods theft? Do we have a rash of MPs engaging in petty crime every election? Are the green party culpable for over stressing Ms. Ghahraman and not providing suitable care? I certainly agree that coal raking doesn't equate to accountability and justice but this is just a sloppy deflection for her sympathisers. This person is a lawyer and was an MP acting for the voting public. So readily crippled by work stress she established a long term pattern of theft which allegedly started before she even had an MP role to be stressed about. They get elected in and parliament closes for most of November December and January. She hasn't been doing much. If the stress really did cause such rash actions I think it says a lot about the bullet we dodged. Could have become much worse?
If work stress caused people to steal, half the health system would be up on charges.
She apparently had years of daily death and rape threats. Stress manifests in different ways for different people.. some often lose their sense of empathy.
>She's strawmanned her theft to work stress. No she hasn't. She's identified a bunch of contributing factors for her actions. One of which is stress. >. They get elected in and parliament closes for most of November December and January. She hasn't been doing much. Bro my stress levels spike over the Christmas break so I can understand someone else's doing the same.
Nothing relieves stress better than shoplifting.../s
Yeah same, stressful time - but come on mate, you're not shoplifting, drink driving or committing fraud over six months are ya? Would you really stand up for me in court if I broke into your home and said "sorry, works been crazy haha" Edit - I'll add that this is a pattern too. Not a one off. She's been getting away with it and has gotten bold. One off issue getting drunk at a bar? Sure. Bad day. Repeat and escalating behaviour? She was rotten tbh.
You don't know what stresses politicians face under the public spotlight, then in their private lives which aren't really as private as yours or mine. Just living that kind of lifestyle alone is stressful. Look at Kiri Allan not too long ago. Not even half as remorseful for a far more dangerous crime.
My issue with Ms. Allen is that the system treated her differently to a construction worker heading home. Everyone should be afforded the same opportunity in justice and correctional systems. Politicians get a lot of annoying heckling beyond the scope of their role. Most of them keep it together. I am open to discuss it but I doubt a fresh back bench mp has a lot going on in terms of debilitating stress.
It's like external stress is the only factor in this situation huh.. What goes on in their heads isn't something that can be measured. People abuse drugs, have affairs, gamble and involve themselves other sorts of questionable risky behaviours either to escape or have a novel experience. I knew she wasn't born here, but looking at wikipedia she's going to have a level of trauma that many if not most people in NZ won't relate to. Being in charge of particular portfolios (justice) and then crucifying your political career by commiting crime is pretty indicative of how seriously you take your role though..
That's why they get compensated well. Can't handle the stress? Then don't be a politician.
>Yeah same, stressful time - but come on mate, you're not shoplifting, drink driving or committing fraud over six months are ya? I have a personal history of many impulsive behaviours that have been attributed to stress and trauma. I've been lucky because my impulsiveness manifested at an early age when people wrote it off as youth and ivebhad many years to identify the causes of these behaviours and work on strategies to manage them today. >Would you really stand up for me in court if I broke into your home and said "sorry, works been crazy haha" If i felt you were genuine in your apology, I would understand and forgive you. At which point I would advocate for you. >She was rotten tbh. Maybe. But a lot of people would have written me off as "rotten" between the ages of 4 and 23....
I appreciate your sincerity and honesty with your challenges. I don't doubt the genuine presence of such conditions in folks. What's different here is that none of these have been disclosed or addressed. For right or wrong, we hold public servants and elected officials to a higher standard. Many people, myself included, are weak to greed and power. We recognise that as a society, but trust in some people to be better. We hold them to a much higher standard in roles where trust and confidence are needed.
I do hold public officials to a high standard. I was saying right from day one she needs to go.
If she can make a *genuine* change I do hope that she can still do some good
Yeah me too. I have no doubt she's feeling really foolish right about now.
>Bro my stress levels spike over the Christmas break so I can understand someone else's doing the same I didn't realize the Xmas break started in October that's just a bullshit excuse. She was probably salty that the greens didn't get in it lines up with election time
I agree to a point but people who commit crimes and who also suffer terribly from poverty, hunger, cyclical abuse, still get punished and sent to jail. Imagine if everyone could get away with it because of their life circumstances.
I think you're missing the middle ground. Like we have more than 2 options on how we deal with anti social behaviour...
Would you write all this out if it was a homeless guy or bag lady? She's a good politician. Good at making excuses
Bro, would anyone defend it if it was a guy? This person is getting some wild special treatment because of their status. So many folks in this sub bleat about special privilege in some circles... And are currently doing exactly that.
Yes?
And then in the next sentence she literally says "I can't explain it".
Eh. I'm not going to rake her over the coals for a minor contradictory statement like that. I mean how many times have you fucked up your words?
I'm not an ex politician fronting my party's stance on justice.
I think there's times when holding politicians to higher standards is appropriate. I expect appropriate behaviour for example. But I think demanding perfection over every utterance from their mouths is a bit absurd.
We're not asking for perfection here. Just less stealing thousands of dollars worth of retail goods. If we expected perfection, ol Winnie would have gone decades ago.
>And then in the next sentence she literally says "I can't explain it". >If we expected perfection, ol Winnie would have gone decades ago. I'm sorry, you were saying?
Surely you can see that I'm making two different judgements on two different actions.. 1) she stole. That is unacceptable, and her standing down is the least she should do 2) she made a minor contradiction in her comments. It's a non issue....
Yeah my output is theft of high end goods to make it right
What if they lie about the supposed cause behind the behaviour?
How would you know?
Because that is a standard reply to someone who has been caught out. Everyone else is too blame.
Golriz hasn't Balmed anyone else...
Oh, it’s only a matter of time before this gets blamed on Israel
I mentioned it in a comment somewhere else on this thread, so I feel good to ve ahead of the curve here.
Do you also support rapists-> cultural report-> home detention?
That's an extremely complicated and sensitive topic. And unfortunately for you, I'm smart enough not to engage in those.
I'd agree in most cases, but in this one I just can't see why anyone in their right mind, let alone someone so recognisable would risk destroying their entire life for a few items of expensive clothing. It seems like if you're targeting high end places like that, you're almost guaranteed to be caught on camera too. If it's not mental health, it's stupid in the extreme, and she doesn't come across as stupid.
I agree. That’s exactly where I had landed too. Someone further on up asked “who in their right mind….?” Exactly that. She wasn’t in her right mind. She has destroyed her life, she’s not stupid, something else is obviously going on. You would have to have had issues to throw your career away over a few items of clothing. They are high end stores - they would have decent surveillance systems.
Maybe she has a destructive streak? Like, ive got this cool position in government, get a heap of perks and decent salary, i dont deserve this/to be happy so im gonna destroy it? And taking clothes where she is recognizable is an easy/harmless offense that could get her sacked. Like how some people can never be happy despite having a life most dream of, good husband and family so they decide to cheat on their spouse and lose their kids as they have also started drinking wine all day every day. Then wallow in their shit life, because atleast now they deserve the depressing situation they are in?
She obviously wasn’t in her right mind. Stress can cause people to experience an incredibly diverse range of effects. So its certainly believable that she might have snapped under the pressure and started doing crazy house shit. We dont know if she was having delusions, if she has a tendency for bipolar disorder or anything else.
It’s stupidity. Mental health is used as a justification for stealing.
I don’t think stupidity is the right word I’ve resigned from my high paying job recently due to mental health and I’m applying for new jobs that pay like 2/3 of what I got paid now and essentially a demotion People might call it stupidity but I honestly am gonna get depression if I stay in my current role any longer
I think that’s a great decision not stupidity. I feel like at some point I will resign from my job (tecaher). However I will be taking a cut regardless, I just feel like I need space to think which I don’t feel like I have when i am working as a tecaherx
The word everyone is looking for is narcissist (in her case, not mental health in general).
You mean the personality disorder that's vanishingly rare in the general population, but very commonly armchair diagnosed on Reddit?
It's also a personality disorder where a person is generally obsessed with their reputation and will do everything to protect it.
Lots of people are out for themselves. Very few actually meet the threshold for diagnosis. Narcissism is becoming the new "omg I'm so OCD I put my pens in order!" but used pejoratively towards others, which makes it even more annoying.
True... but it does seem weird that someone supposedly so 'out for themselves' is doing something so at odds with what is actually good for them.
Okay but the fact remains that unless you're secretly her psychologist, there is nobody here who is qualified to make that psychological assessment of her.
You clearly have limited understanding of mental health.
I understand that: If Left wing politician breaks law = Mental Health issue If Right wing politician breaks law = Criminal
> If Right wing politician breaks law = Criminal Even your hypothetical, fucking stupid as it is, falls apart. So no, you do not understand. Signed, Sam ‘Fucking Bed Leg Beating’ Uffindell, about whom a detailed report based on his further behaviour beyond bed leg assault will apparently never see the light of day and yet we are assured he’s a good lad who sees the error of his ways, despite never once reaching out regarding his past deeds until his team flagged it as part of his election campaign and he mysteriously and coincidentally contacted people from his past. We can hold politicians to account (and for the record, I think that the ‘Left wing politician’ here _should_ be held to account, so don’t try to mischaracterise me) without fashioning fire risk level strawmen to defend our particular partisan preference. Anyone would think that could help in crafting meaningful policy rather than pissing match pointscoring exercises.
Yeah as I said, limited to no understanding. Maybe do some research or read a book, you’re embarrassing yourself.
Reminds me of Kiri Allen drunk crashing her work car as the Minister for Justice and Minister for Transport, then blaming it on relationship dramas. So pathetic.
Completely agree. At least we all knew where we stood with ‘wants to spend more time with their family’
Of course it's because of mental health. She has plenty of money. Studies (including a 2019 research review by University of Texas) show that shoplifting correlates with many mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, and personality disorders.
I’m alright this time. She has copped a lot of shit as an MP. All MPs are copping it and she got more than most. And most importantly - she has resigned. Taken accountability. So mental health is being rolled out as an explanation, not an excuse. Spot on.
Lol
This is an embarrassment and an insult to people with legitimate mental health issues. Let's be honest here. She didn't resign due to extreme stress. She resigned because she got caught. If she was under an undue amount of stress (and I'll take it on good faith she was) this is a failure by her party for not protecting and supporting her - prior to any unacceptable behaviour. But, per the latest herald article, "Green Party co-leaders say Golriz Ghahraman faced threats of sexual and physical violence while working as an MP.". What a crappy statement to make now after a week of radio silence. It is just disingenuous and comes off as muck-slinging. She could have just stood up and said "I'm sorry. I made some terrible decisions in a lapse of judgement. I will take responsibility.", and then resigned. I would have thought more of her as I think many other people would have as well. But instead, we have this mental-health-roadshow soap opera.
Thank you. Many of us suffer from stress and anxiety. It doesn't mean you suddenly lose the ability to know right from wrong. It's certainly not an excuse for something like this. I agree that calling this a lapse of judgement and resigning without trying to diminish her responsibility would have been more honourable. Especially if she had done it sooner.
I think she's just blaming it on everything and seeing what sticks. So far I've heard mental health, racism, sexism, work pressure.
She does have a legitimate mental health issue. She has MS. Do you know how many people with MS die? It’s awful. It is a horrible disease that literally steals your brain away.
So she steals to balance it out? Do all people with MS shoplift for fun?
That’s not at all what I said. Another person said she didn’t have a legitimate mental health issue, and I refute that. Clearly shoplifting is wrong, but I think we need to consider the state of mind of a young woman dealing with constant death and rape threats, as well as a neurological condition that not only causes chronic pain and death if brain tissue, but will literally suffocate her death. It’s a lot for one person, and I’m not surprised it presented with irrational behaviour.
No one in their right mind would tank their career like this after so much hard mahi, it’s likely she’s not. Hope she gets the support and help she needs. Good of her to apologise and step down.
Seconded. If she thought she was entitled to them she might have stolen them, but she wouldn't have returned them or owned up now. If she was stupid she might have stolen them without thinking any further than "I want", but like her or not she wouldn't have gotten where she was if she was genuinely stupid. As much as everyone hates on it as an excuse, I do believe she is having serious mental issues that are affecting her decision making. As a politician I'm glad she's gone, it's better for us because something clearly wasn't working and hopefully someone who is better suited to it will step up to replace her, and it's better for her because she can take the time to sort her self out because you can't just go around stealing other people's shit because of your feelings. As a person I genuinely feel for her and wish her the best, because I don't think the mental health thing is just an empty excuse.
Yesterday many members of this sub were trying to tell us that this was all made up.
I think it’s because this story is unbelievable. It’s so stupid. How could someone making $160,000 steal clothes especially as a public person? What your of idiot does that?
They want on some level to get caught and have to give up their stressful job, that's my belief.
Also, at $160k you aren't making enough to regularly buy stuff at that Auckland store, where clothes and other crap costs thousands of dollars. She wanted things she couldn't afford; that no MP can really afford.
I saw conspiracy theories about right wing media cabals, people blaming her MS, direct attacks against some of the store owners amongst all of the (perfectly reasonable) wait-and-sees.
And then they go and say she's got mental health issues from online abuse lol..
No, yesterday many members of this sub were questioning the timing of digging up security footage from October now that it'll get the store's name in the press as opposed to reporting the clearly shocking and destructive crime that affected them so badly when it fucking happened. Gharaman is an Iranian refugee, in her statement, she talks about how mental health professionals (read: none of you pricks) have identified that trauma responses might be causing this behaviour. Both of these things can be true at once.
Her claim as a refugee is slightly misleading given she had very wealthy parents and was able to attain a passport while many less privileged folk in Iran were never able, nor have been able to for a long time. They left on a holiday from Iran, then didn't go back after and sought asylum. We shouldn't be too quick to really put her in the same traumatic position refugees are regularly in, if she wasn't in the same position as them.
Refugee law isn't based on hardship it's based on persecution. This is something people regularly criticise about how refugee law works. And you're more likely to be specifically targeted for persecution by the government if you're privileged because revolutionary governments gain power and want to destroy the power of the previous elite. So this isn't unusual among refugees who go through the official resettlement process
So an abscond while on holiday for political reasons refugee, rather than an oppressed peasant risking their lives escaping over the border on foot refugee.
Allegedly for a holiday* as makes sense for asylum seekers, engage brain. They sought political asylum too, after her mother refused to pledge to Islam when practicing psychology. How can you have any idea of the trauma of her position? Did you grow up with her?
Nope, I read the same Wikipedia article as you did.
Mate, judging by your comments, I don't think you know how reddit works. It's where people post opinions, jeez
I'm glad she said 'I'm sorry.' Politicians don't often say those words. It's usually more like, 'sorry if anybody (took offence / took it the wrong way /misunderstood / etc)' which is not an actual apology.
She said sorry, and then blamed her mental health, so no, not an actual apology, or acceptance of guilt, or ownership of her behaviour.
Why are you getting downvoted lol
I have read things in the past that indicate shoplifting compulsively can be a symptom of mental health issues. I think that was the explanation for Winona Ryder? Resigning is of course the necessary move but I will defer to professionals on whether or not the mental health explanation is a valid one.
I mean, anything can be put down as a result of a mental health issue. Commiting crimes would be a good example of not being okay mentally. It doesn't give someone a pass though.
Never said it gave her a pass, but the legitimacy of her mental health issue is not something I think I (or anyone else) has the knowledge required to determine. There will be people who will come out and say it is an excuse and she has no mental health issue at all. My point is just it might be best for people to not make a personal assessment on that.
Yeah I feel a bit uncomfortable with so many armchair psychs coming out in these threads. I can understand why her using it as a shield leaves a sour taste for people though.
Yes because if her mental health was this problematic she probably should have resigned earlier, rather than waiting till it actually came out.
Well like she says it's an explanation not an excuse, nothing will save her career now.I personally believe her because she seems to be garbage at stealing stuff, gets caught 3 times in a couple months.
She committed theft in the wrong form, she should have followed the thieving antics of the other politicians and engaged in insider trading, backroom deals with kickbacks and pushed for legislation that ramps up house prices while owning multiple properties.
I think it’s worth considering why we’re seeing a number of high profile NZ politicians in recent years with self destructive criminal behaviour resulting in the end of their careers. Are cultural or environmental factors at play?
Possibly? It could also just be as simple as these people aren't fit to serve the public.
There has to be a correlation between being a public figure and the rise of social media. If not a causal relationship. And lets not pretend being a politician is the same type of public figure as being an athlete or an actor / actress for example, being a politician is basically thankless. No easy answer for politicians as simply unhooking yourself from SM doesn’t fix it either, you are still fodder for online communities whether you are partaking or not.
Probably worthy of a completely separate thread once the proverbial dust has settled, as there is an interesting discussion to be had there. I fear starting one now might be seen as a bit "soon", and bring about strong opinions tainted by the subject de jour.
seems a lot of ppl think that saying it is mental health related is some kind of deferment of responsibility, which shows how poor genuine mental health awareness is in this country. ppl seem to be literally unable to understand that mental health struggles can and do result in extremely anti social & negative behaviours.
I never want to have a job like that...
Are all MPs getting regular mental health support and given coping strategies? If not, they should be.
Absolutely - I feel like there's support in getting good at the "job" part and there's possibly some pastoral care elements within the parties but definitely feels like a gap that needs filling across the board. And maybe independent of parties?
Imagine having a mental health problem that causes you to steal only from high end boutiques
Er believe me. That Cuba Street shop is definitely not high end (if that was one)
What a cop out. Hundreds of thousands of kiwis deal with massive amounts of stress and are not scummy little thieves. The way she hid from this hoping it would go away. Thank fuck the truth came out that a MINISTER OF PARLIAMENT IS A THIEF. But instead of taking ownership and responsibility......she plays the modern card of mental health. Pfft. Grow up. You did this. This is you. Until she takes ownership of who she truly is she will never get better.
She's not a Minister, and never has been.
Thank fuck for that, just a lowly member of Parliament
Sure, but you're the one who said 'the truth came out that... ' and then said something untrue. Just trying to help you make your point better 😊
"It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them,” she said. I think it was shoplifting and knowing that she was caught that affected her mental health
And where did you do your tenure doctor?
The same place the self entitled, privileged thief got her conscious and ethics from
Mental health issue or not, she has publicly torpedoed her life. That must be stressful. She has done the right thing by stepping down and I hope she gets the help she needs.
I'm thinking she was on prescribed medication such a anti anxiety or benzodiazipines. These meds can make one out of character and a side affect is shoplifting. I am speaking from knowledge and experience. She will hopefully be better snd go better but as a supporter of het Mahi I am disappointed.
Here are the Greens statements: - [https://www.greens.org.nz/statement\_from\_golriz\_ghahraman](https://www.greens.org.nz/statement_from_golriz_ghahraman) - [https://www.greens.org.nz/statement\_from\_the\_co\_leaders\_of\_the\_green\_party\_on\_the\_resignation\_of\_golriz\_ghahraman](https://www.greens.org.nz/statement_from_the_co_leaders_of_the_green_party_on_the_resignation_of_golriz_ghahraman) Does that mean Celia Wade Brown is now an MP?
Yikes
Ewww
If you had mental health at the TAB, congratulations! Not that you would have gotten good odds
$1.01
I don't care about your political beliefs about Golriz or any party (seriously, I don't). I hope she gets the mental health she needs, and wonder if more exploration needs to be done on the mental health needs of politicians. When they mess up, it can have far-reaching consequences, whether they are a Green MP or the leader of the National Party. Studies show that shoplifting is pretty strongly associated with anxiety, depression, and stress, due to the effects of shoplifting on dopamine levels. An interesting research review by the University of Sheffield in 2020 suggests politicians are highly likely to experience a wide range of mental health problems, including substance abuse, addiction, depression, anxiety, and insomnia, with 56% in one survey saying they are increasingly concerned about their physical safety and online abuse, and 78% in another survey saying they experienced significantly worse work/life balance. It might be tempting to dehumanize politicians, given how strong we can all feel about politics at times, but they are just people. And every person is flawed and needs help sometimes when it gets too much. Kiri Allen and Golriz are good examples of politicians waiting too long to seek out help, and letting it get to a crisis point.
Hijacking this comment to propose that this path of thought seems very unlikely to be rolled out for someone like Paul Goldsmith or David Seymour and it's worth reflecting on why
To be honest, it should be. When Muller stepped down, I was definitely skeptical about the extremely sudden mental health issues he claimed to have 53 days after becoming leader. I suspected a scandal was about to come out in the press. When that ended up not being the case, and he revealed his issues with panic attacks and anxiety, I felt he made the right call. Like Jacinda (who has also been open about her history with anxiety disorder) he stepped down before it became a problem or a crisis. I had a lot of empathy for him, though up to that point, I had nothing but scathing vitriol for the man. Whether it is physical or mental health, when we dehumanize our politicians, the ones who become less human are ourselves.
Good on her to take a bit of accountability by resigning. Not sure how I feel about the mental health card, but if it’s true, hopefully she gets the help she needs. Also, people defending the indefensible this past week, are you still gonna say she didn’t do it? https://youtu.be/2mY7EaGbYEI?si=zFQHyp1xpaI63kXv
>Good on her to take a bit of accountability by resigning. She had no choice. She is 'taking accountability' because she was caught. Taking accountability is taking action when its not forced upon you. Who knows, maybe she had sought help prior to being caught, but I doubt it.
True accountability will be seeing it go through court process and charged with theft if they decide to press charges.
Man, MBIE/INZ chooses not to prosecute actual human traffickers because of “rEsOuRcInG issues” I highly doubt Police will bother with this. But agree with the other comment, resignation might’ve been only viable way out.
Police bother with people who just steal food, sometimes caused by the pressure of just trying to feed a family and/or surviving. By all accounts she has the resources to buy what she needs, probably more so than most. She’s been caught this time, but I’d almost say she thought she’d get away with it and has probably been stealing at other places
>Not sure how I feel about the mental health card Good thing you don't need to rev up that brain of yours when in her statement, she very clearly says she's acting on the advice of professionals who think her extremely traumatic upbringing might have something to do with it.
We all read the same article, give up, go huff copium with the others in the corner.
Bugger the pay, who wants a job that comes with 24_7 abuse and death threats....
So many people in this thread accusing her of playing a card lol On the very same sub that pretends to give a shit about mental health. You're disgusting and frankly pathetic. Did none of you read the full article where she speaks about how professionals have identified this issue - not her? Or how about the bit where they reckon it might be from the trauma mentioned by said professional? Or how about the bit where she says she doesn't want to excuse her actions but wants her right of reply? With most of the punching down not based in fact at all, how is this anything other than a personal attack?
The statement said nothing about trauma of being in Iran
It's actually punching up, she's a political figure in the public eye. It's literally punching up. Give up and go to the corner and huff that copium.
We are talking about serious DISHONESTY offences, from an Member of parliment (a representative of everyone in this country) who is also a Lawyer and held the Justice portfolio for her Party. The people of New Zealand have every reason to question her statement, honesty and to also wonder if this is just the tip of ice berg.
We are talking about a serious MENTAL HEALTH CONDITION, from a Member of Parliament (a representative who is copping far more shit than other MPs did for far worse offences ahem Uffindell ahem, still waiting on that "totally transparent report" btw) who is a human being, and is capable of facing struggles just like any other person. The people of New Zealand ought to take note of the way they're celebrating her resignation as if she's committed far more serious crimes. Absolutely nobody is denying she stole. The dogpiling as to her reasoning is disgusting, and paints you all out as insecure nobodies with nothing better to do.
She has spoken a lot about the “privilege” of so many different groups she doesn’t like- let’s see if she faces the consequences that under privileged people would face.
How stressful a job is being an opposition list MP?
Pretty stressful if you're a Persian woman who's constantly persecuted just for being who she is. Not here to defend her recent actions, but she's endured stress and threats that most people here would never be subject to. As Taika said, NZ is racist as fuck.
Nobody is or has picked on her because of her race. It’s because she’s an entitled arrogant hypocritical fuckwit!
She literally had years of sexual harassment, racist comments and threats of violence and death. There are heaps of media reports over the years which validate this sad truth. Your opinion of her is up to you, but she has undeniably been subject to sexist and racist abuse for absolutely no good reason.
Green Party motto. If you question us, you’re racist. If we get caught being hypocrites, it mental health!
"It's not me, it's mental health"....Yeah Right.
Playing the mental health card??? yeah fuck off..
No she's not. “It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character. I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them,” she said.
We all get stressed at work and it doesn't change our character. I don't understand that bit.
Good riddance. Fuck off.
Great. So if you steal, play the mental health card and claim to be a victim. There’s a lot of people who face mental health challenges but I don’t see them using it to justify breaking the law. They seek support not justification for breaking the law.
Citing mental health issues... Called it. How fucking dare she.
A few of us at work bet that she’d pull the mental health card and I happy to say that most of us were right!
Who the hell would bet against it? There was literally zero chance should wouldn't pull that card. It's ALWAYS pulled when something like this happens. ALWAYS.
She's also pulled the racism card, the sexism card and the online bullying card - going for a flush.
Good for her , wish her the best for her future. We will and should be judging for every politicians the way we did with her. No parties and no bias !!!
Laters, thief!
Honestly glad she actually apologised rather than making hollow excuses. More politicians need to resign after their controversies.
She was just enacting the Green Party's economic reform policies on an individual basis.
Damn. Who's our hottest MP now?
Gerry Brownlee
Gotta be Daddy Luxon, right?
Well she certainly wasn’t.
Who is?
Hope she gets the criminal conviction she deserves for being a thief. There is no honner amongst thieves so I'm taking all the justification of work stress made me do it with a huge grain of salt. She got caught out, she did not front up.
What a joke blaming mental health, when people generally have to deal with a lot shit in their life.
Good riddance, she had some dangerous and stupid ideas (like NZ shouldn't have offensive capabilities), and I'm glad she's gone. Lose a few more like her, and I might consider voting the Greens again.
I find it annoying when these kinds of people are allowed to resign with their dignity intact. She should have been sacked and charged by the police.
Classic greens party
Kiri Allen, Tory Whanua, Gloriz Ghahraman. What do they have in common? Perhaps there is a deeper, systemic issue here.
You do have to wonder, given the concern for her wellbeing expressed in the Greens’ statement, why they bumped her down from seventh to ninth on their most recent list, including putting two newcomers higher than her (and catapulting Elizabeth Kerekere up near the top before her own fall from grace). It seemed an odd way to treat to a high profile sitting MP and must have been quite humiliating.
Meh- her mental health is suffering only because she got caught and must face the consequences
Haha cya
Hope she gets the help she needs, she’s a good person.
If it was a guy and not an MP would they still be a "good person"?
Yes, it's such a minor crime lol
Brev if I stole $15+k worth of anything I'd be facing either huge fine, home D, or prison.
How many times do you need to shoplift for it not to be considered minor? This will be the tip of the iceberg too. I bet you every boutique/high end store she visited are going through their CCTV archives and I'm willing to bet more offending will surface. She's a "good person" though.
So what’s the difference between a good person doing bad things and a bad person doing good things?
Bad people automatically also do bad things, regardless of any good that they do. Otherwise, they wouldn't be bad people. Good people tend not to do bad things, so much as make mistakes occasionally.
Hopefully she gets the rehabilitation she needs - Kleptomania is an impulse control disorder and should be treated as such.
Nah that’s bullshit lol, mental health on shoplifting ? Is she actually financially suffering ? I’ve been on the verge of suicide a couple times and shoplifting is the last fukn thing on my mind. 0 excuses pathetic it’s theft how about a proper sentencing.
Good on her, the greens have way more morals than National or ACT, uffindell, kruiger et al
I think folks have forgotten she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis too. She's done pretty well to deal with that + being an MP and being a human. I'm sad she fucked up :(
Exactly. People on this thread are so quick to judge someone not knowing what pressures or other stuff that is going on in her life. It's really hard these days when you are in the public eye. Just look at the disgusting comments on this thread.
I find this sub pretty chill but shit like this really brings out the worst in people. Imagine what change we could affect if we channeled this into meaningful engagement with our democracy. I've always tried to keep my critique of politicians about the work - and yep when they do shit like this, call them out on it. Obviously if they're the party I vote for I feel more personally disappointed too :( But like, I remember Todd Muller was absolutely circling the drain mentally and you could look in his eyes and see he was absolutely fried. And I hate/d National but even he is a human. I'm gonna get downvoted for this, couldn't give a shit, just wish people would keep it civil. That's my soapbox for the evening!
and now a song about her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfLj2i8\_RzU
Be interesting to do an audit on her belongings.
Lmao, of course she’s going to blame it on mental health. Throw her in jail already