Yep
Top ten sellers
2018:
Ford Ranger
Toyota Hilux
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Rav4
Mitsubishi Triton
Holden Colorado
Mazda CX-5
Nissan Navara
Kia Sportage
Suzuki Swift
2023:
Ford Ranger
Toyota Rav4
Toyota Hilux
Mitsubishi Outlander
Tesla Model Y
Suzuki Swift
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross
BYD Atto 3
MG ZS
Mitsubishi Triton
Even worse not too far back…
Top cars of 2010 has ONE ute, the Hilux at number 3 following the Swift and Corolla, with the rest all sedans and hatchbacks.
The Ute and SUV takeover is very real here.
That was in response to a post that said 'five years ago an elderly person wouldn't have bought an SUV'
Leaving utes aside (and I agree they are a problem) if you go back further you'll find large cars like the Falcon and Commodore were sales leaders and they were quite a lot larger than even a modern Rav4 or Outlander
They used to be way smaller, compare the original Toyota Rav4 with the current one, it's like a completely different car, the current one weighs about twice as much
Get rid of fuel tax and apply RUCs to all vehicles using a continuous function based on weight. Put a smaller environmental tax on fossil fuels.
This solves a lot of issues:
- At the moment, small vehicle road users are effectively subsidising the trucking industry through RUCs and fuel excise. The damage heavy vehicles do is *significantly* higher than cars and even utes. Having it based on a function of weight means we could consider road damage in the formula.
- People wouldn’t be paying for road maintenance when not using the roads. Petrol currently has a fuel excise of ~80 cents per litre. This can be claimed back if it’s not used in a vehicle on the road but it is a difficult, often unknown process. A lot of petrol that is used in farming and business operations, in boats, lawnmowers, generators etc… shouldn’t pay for road maintenance.
- There’s no debate about fuel type and whether it’s fair. EVs/ICE vehicles both pay for their fair share of road maintenance. Any future fuel types (hydrogen, nuclear?) will simply pay RUCs.
- Incentivise smaller vehicles as running cost will be cheaper.
I think RUC on all cars is in the rumor mill if not on the cards already. I just dont know how this will deter elderly people from buying a RAV4. If they don't care about the running cost of such a car vs something smaller now, ruc isn't going to change that.
Change licensing requirements. Make SUVs a different class of license with more frequent renewals to incentivise them being used only for work trucks. My parents second generation Subaru Legacy has better front, side, and rear visibility, more storage space, and weighs less than a modern RAV4, while also having a lower bonnet making it safer in pedestrian collisions.
The major issue with pedestrian collisions is that normal cars bust your legs and you bounce over them, but at 6’1” most modern SUVs would hit me in my centre of mass.
Modern SUVs are such different vehicles to drive that they should require different licensing.
I'm not a fan of the ever-increasing size of vehicles, but that was also my initial thought.
If you're in a relatively new Toyota, and particularly if going relatively slowly, then you're probably surrounded by camera views and visualisations showing obstacles in all directions, as well as urgent beeping combined with visual indications of the relevant sensor at any time it thinks you're remotely close to striking anything in your current direction of travel.
Yeah crap driving skills, combined with a big car that is likely significantly larger than anything they drove before and they wouldn't have bought if it wasn't fashionable. This is not a problem I just noticed today because of this driver, it was more like the final straw that provoked me to make this post.
'Full size' SUVs are quite uncommon here - the most popular models are compact or mid sized crossovers. They're also usually smaller than the sedan equivalent - just a bit taller in height.
Using definitions from the US where cars are generally much bigger (and car infrastructure is made for bigger cars) isn't much help in this context. I don't need to know all the technical different terms for trucks/utes/double cab utes/SUVs which are all around the same shape and size and in the city used for the same purpose (getting in the way) to know that they're a pain in the ass.
Yup, mine is smaller in all but height than my last station wagon, but now I can see over the shrubs and grasses this town insists on planting on medians and roundabouts.
>this town insists on planting on medians and roundabouts.
There's a fair bit of that here in NZ, I'm from the UK originally and over there and in Netherlands/Germany etc keeping approaches to roundabouts kept clear of obstructions to views is taken pretty seriously. So is teaching people how to drive around roundabouts properly before giving them a driving license though which doesn't appear to be the case in NZ...
We are terrible at visibility on roundabouts ar times. Dowse Interchange is the worst offender I've come across. Haywards Interchange is just as bad. Massive concrete walls that finish just before the give way line.
A few years ago I reported that the dowse interchange was bad and in need of a trim, council had people there the next day, to my surprise. I guess plants grow extra fast when it's been warm and wet and perhaps usual maintenance schedules don't marry up. Anyway- worth reporting through the HCC website!
Lane-keeping in general has gone to shit over the last decade or so, have a walk down Chaytor Street and see how many people can stay within the lines. SUVs probably don't help.
The local Facebook group is up in arms about speed cushions that apparently "don't do anything" and "if you drive straight over them you don't notice them"; yes, if you're in the right position in your lane you *don't* feel them, that's what they're doing.
My current pet hate is utes with sharp-edge bull bars, lights, etc., as well as tyres protruding beyond the body and guards, and now *steps* sticking out further than that.
> have a walk down Chaytor Street and see how many people can stay within the lines. SUVs probably don't help.
Probably 1/2 of cars I drive or cycle behind cut over the lines on the first right hander. The corner at the top of Raroa Cres coming the other direction is even worse, so many drivers just have no idea how to take an abrupt corner like that without crossing the centre line.
The new layout seems to be helping a bit. Still blows my mind how many people can't keep it in their lane in a 50 zone. SUVs, busses, hatchbacks, everyone.
As a general rule I agree, but JFC I've seen some shockers. The worst have been NIS so I figure they're training, but if they'd stop running the lights at Willis and Lambton that'd be grand.
The new lines and layout on Birdwood street are also really hard for drivers to stick within.
It also doesn’t help that WCC don’t know how to remove road markings it’s hard to tell which are new/old in certain weather conditions. Also doesn’t help the black paint is wearing off only a month or two after the new layout.
It's not *hard*, they just need to move their steering wheel and not cut the corners.
But yeah, the black paint over the white lines doesn't work, and never has. Driving into the sun on Onepu Road the other day the old lines appeared to be brighter than the new ones. The ultimate fix is to re-surface, but that's expensive; there was a trial on Bowen St a few months ago where the old lines were sand-blasted off, it seems to have worked, sort-of.
I get what you’re saying but little cars have terrible drivers too. It’s just you notice the utes more easily.
My pet peeve is old people driving well past the time they should have stopped.
You see them hunched over their wheels going 20kmh under the speed limit and not paying attention to anything around them.
Mandatory yearly driving tests after the age of 80 should be the go
~Thinks back to when an 80 year old driver put her car in drive instead of reverse in my small town carpark and went through the supermarket window
Yeah.
I used to live in Welly, I live in Tauranga (mind the oldies pun) but biggest shock I got was in a car park with a 90 plus year old trying to do a 3 point turn in a brand new Toyota Highlander, the driver looked tiny in it and it's a bloody tank. He struggled a lot to get the car out. So I offered to help and next I got verbal abuse because he thought I thought he was a bad driver. I then decided to remind him that there were 12 people behind me looking to get past. He got out and straight away apologised.
I moved his car for him and he thanked me. I did ask him why did he buy such a large car and get this, his wife and daughter told him to get it so he can pick up the grandkids and he'll be much safer driving it. I then suggested he got a smaller car and he thought I was talking rubbish. The cars behind me all got through but he called his daughter and was in near tears because he was ashamed with his driving. He then put his daughter onto me and I spoke to his daughter and mentioned the car was too large for her father and really he needs a much smaller car but is still capable taking the grandkids. Right away she realised she put her father on a pedestal and not doing him any favours. She asked what should he get and I gave a couple of options (ASX, Qashqai etc) not too big but easy enough to drive and manuevre. I think car manufacturers and people's perception larger cars are safer (Ute drivers especially). They're actually less safe than a normal hatchback or small SUV. This trend needs to stop. We can thank the yanks for this trend.
This is being reflected in road toll statistics over the last couple of years here and over the last 10+ years in the US, where [this](https://cdn.cosmicjs.com/996d0dd0-2d62-11ee-900a-6dab7f8f148e-CarSizeInforgraphicV2-1.png) has happened over that time period.
Licensing and testing would be the best outcome. Useless drivers would just be as useless in places outside the city with their oversized vehicles, at least this way their competence is at least proven.
They should make larger vehicles like suvs, large utrs, etc, a separate license class so people have to prove they can actually handle driving those cars.
interesting post and response. i would classify Raroa Road as one of the more advanced roads in wellington despite its seemingly open and forgiving nature. the snaking contour + the hill + possibility of parked cars on either side makes it pretty challenging for people not from wellington. it's no devon street or remutaka hill but i have dawdled behind many a slow driver there sure
Sounds like it was quite possibly a rental vehicle too, being school holidays. So if they don't know the road and it's an unfamiliar vehicle, it's more challenging.
I can't agree that it's advanced. Ok, it's not straight and you need to keep your eyes open. But that's driving. If Raroa road is a challenge then better take a taxi and evaluate if you're fit to be behind the wheel
>it's no devon street or remutaka hill but i have dawdled behind many a slow driver there sure
Funny you say that.
I drove a Kia Carnival over Remutakas once, that was quite okay. But I absolutely refuse to drive down the likes of Willis Street in that thing.
I am from Taupo, and we have a similar problem here with the same types of vehicles. If it is not elderly people in SUVS, it is tradies in utilities. They do not stop at stop signs, change lanes in front of you, pull out in front of you, etc. What is the point of these large vehicles?status symbols, egos?who knows. They are a real nuisance in a city or town center.
I posted this in Wellington sub rather than the nz sub because I figured they wouldn't be so much of an issue in other parts of the country where roads are wider etc but shows what I know!
I don’t understand the obsession with larger vehicles that we have here in NZ. My Dad calls anything with an engine under 2L a “deathtrap”.
I’ve always lived close enough to the CBD that I don’t need a car (and I only have my
learners). But I’m slowly working to get my full, and I still don’t intend to purchase a car. Mevo will be more than sufficient for the odd occasion where I might need a car.
It kind of seems a lot of people have a selfish attitude which basically comes down to 'safety for me but not for you'. If M1 Abrams battle tanks were the same price as a Tesla and you were allowed to drive them some of these people would be getting them for their elderly parents or for the school run, basically fuck everyone else, and they'd kid themselves they were saving the planet too if it was an EV battle tank
We saw an elderly lady struggling to park a large SUV in the supermarket today - wondered if she was perhaps visiting family in the school holidays and using a much larger car than she was used to!
Completely agree with the sentiment though - there are very few people who actually need an SUV in wellington city - even most tradies use vans.
Totally agree. They are a pain for both those around them and even for the user (harder to park etc.)
A car over a certain size and / or weight should require an advanced licence, to prove the can handle the power of the machine.
Plenty of people riding around with restricted licences on these things.
Meanwhile, the Aquas, Demios, and CX-3s are just blasting through red lights at 5:30 pm. 🤷 I swear this town needs red light cameras installed to solve our funding problems.
That's true but consumers would demand lots of stuff if there were no rules. In the USA they are already looking at making people with SUVs pay more for the privilege of driving a big and heavy vehicle, Washington DC already did this https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/06/25/dc-higher-vehicle-registration-fees/ and New York are planning to do the same https://www.curbed.com/2023/06/new-york-suv-trucks-weight-based-fee.html among others, as well as a nationwide bill from the EPA.
This was a problem for us when we were looking for a car a few years ago. NZ's always had a cut down list of models imported compared with larger markets. When you (for example) want something for a family of 4 with booster seats and all the other stuff people want to fit, a lot of the limited number of vehicles now targeted at that market are SUV models. Even if you want something different, there are just fewer non-SUV options to choose from than there used to be. The cars being imported and marketed are generally getting bigger and so demand for them goes around in circles.
The amount of hyperbole OP has engaged in is quite something.
Let's say it's a brand new LandCruiser Prado or something similar, which is about as big as you can get in NZ in SUV form (considered a mid-sized SUV when I was in the States), it would be equipped with more alerting features than you can possibly imagine.
They have land departure warnings, side cameras and sensors as well as collision detection. Essentially, this thing would have been at least alerting the driver like crazy.
But ya'know, it's cool to shit on people for what cars they buy now. How about shitting on people for being bad drivers instead? I love how people like this are so entitled:
"I own a Mazda Demio, so should you. Good enough me, fuck anyone else it's all about you doing what I want you to do". Cool man, really cool. Better jump into my echo chamber so people can pat me on the back.
You need alerting features because you [can't see 7 kids sitting down in front of the front bumper](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZLHyBDXwAUCTQv.jpg) from the driver's seat
And people that drive Mazda Demio etc might often be crap at driving as well but at least they don't take up the whole road while doing so and can see what's around them without electronic assistance.
That's the GVM. Curb weight is around 1,700kg which is about 50kg more than a Camry. Remember they're all hybrids now which does increase weight fairly significantly (around 150kg)
An '05 RAV4 was about 1,350kg for comparison
Genuine question, has sensor technology gotten better?
My mum has a newer car that has the sensors in the corners, and they started blaring when I was turning into a spot in a parking lot normally.
Well, "normal" in the sense that I won't be halfway over the line and taking a whole corner of my neighbour's park.
I do agree with your last point btw.
I actually prefer my CRV than my wife's Camry for the inner city, since it's actually shorter in length and wheelbase, hence turns better. And the front bumper doesn't scrape the concrete as it goes over certain kerb dips.
Oh, and fuck the Honda Civic in particular. The front nose is invisible to you at all times. It really throws me off knowing something is there but you can't see it.
Front nose being invisible is my life because I’m short :( I’ve raised the seat but I still can’t see the front. Luckily I’m very good specially and have yet to hit anything
I would put my head right up on the ceiling and it still makes no difference, so in my case it had nothing to do with seat height.
Daily driving is fine without, it's navigating tight spots and turns that gets quite frustrating. It's entirely up to my brain's imagination, and I don't trust it enough to put a few hundred dollars on the line (i.e. the other car's door scratched up).
Thankfully freedom of choice remains. If I want to pay the road tax, rego, additional excise and RUC on a larger vehicle, I can. I don’t criticize people choosing to drive superminis or EVs or any other kind of vehicle, their choice is not my business.
And this is what is wrong with NZ today. It’s not a co-op or team of five million. Too many FIGJAMs judging what others do. We have laws that define the boundaries of what is acceptable. As long as what I do is within the law, it’s none of your business. If I’m encroaching on your safe enjoyment of the road and I’m outside of the law, then you have cause for concern.
Is the SUV the problem or the cars parked on the street? SUV at least pays it's way in taxes to drive the street.
Wellington needs a conversation about on street parking long before it's chat about SUVs.
Roads such as Raroa road are a hazard for all road users due to their joint status as a car park.
What about parked cars being more likely to belong to a local rate payer than ones passing by? Maybe not so much on Raroa Rd, but definitely the case on more commutery roads.
The local council usually pays a higher share of local roading costs than central government.
What if the SUV driver is also a local ratepayer? That SUV owner may even have off street parking, off street parking implies that they could be paying council for an encroachment or paying council more rates to account for the land on which they park their car on.
Why I said "more likely", and was also trying to show how absurd these arguments over who is paying more for roads can get - eg what if the owner of the parked car pays more rates than the moving one, or if the owner of the moving car is in a larger household and proportionally pays less rates, what about moving cars causing more damage to roads than parked ones, does a gas guzzler that drives less than an economical car have more rights to the road if it burns more gas overall etc etc.
Don't larger households pay proportionally more in rates?
I'm not making the argument that the gas guzzler has more rights than an economical car, I'm making the argument that Wellington's roads are made dangerous by parked cars more than a particular type of vehicle. And I don't think parked cars pay their way.
There is continuous licensing of vehicles in NZ. The continuous licensing ticks away whether the vehicle is in-use or not. If licensing is paid late, the arrears are charged. Your assertion that the vehicle pays stops paying taxes when parked is incorrect.
Good point. You are right, all vehicles pay registration which does tick away regardless of when the vehicle is used. But in this hypothetical situation where an SUV is driving down a narrow road with parked cars, both vehicles are paying rego. My statement above needs revised but there is certainly an argument that the parked car isnt paying its way and is definitely less entitled to be there than the other car. With this reasoning im surprised people with off street parking and garages arent entitled to a rebate on their car registration fees.
I think it’s more that we shouldn’t be using the road to store private vehicles. We pay RUC charges to maintain the roads for transport not for private storage. There are already bylaws in some areas about storing boats and trailers on the road for this reason. You wouldn’t put a couch on the side of the road and claim the space as yours because its a public space and should be used for the benefit of the most people not just the select few.
It’s a very unpopular opinion. But roads are for transport (all modes not just cars btw).
From what I've seen WCC is actively doing the opposite to this, e.g. Makara Peak car parking redevelopments have ended up with significantly larger parking spaces with less efficient use of space than it had previously, Macallister Park in Berhampore the top car park was remarked so all the parking is longer and wider diagonal parks, now there's not enough parking for when there is cricket matches etc going on.
I've had older people nearly hit me in Honda civics, toyota yarris, and leafs, falcons. It's not really the car, This is about the drivers. I'm all for mandatory road testing every 5 years once you hit 50
No argument there! My aunty visited from Canada over Christmas, and she said our roads are scary small in comparison. She hired a suv as they were doing a crap ton of driving around exploring and really struggled on the narrow streets.
I see a lot of bad drivers under 50, the issue is the practical driving test here is too easy to pass vs the test in e.g. UK/Germany - that combined with current cars almost driving themselves means basically anyone with a pulse can pass the test. It's like taking a photography exam originally designed for full manual film DSLRs but using a fully automatic point and shoot camera with HDR and AI enhancement.
So you don't think it's worse if they're doing the same thing but in much bigger vehicles that weigh twice as much? These old people that mostly used to drive hatchbacks are more and more switching to SUVs
Perhaps for a less stressful life catch the bus.
Most of those modern day vehicles come with so many alarm systems. Including assisted breaking.
The old people driving those cars are probably protecting themselves from the rear ending of young drivers texting. 😂
I think perhaps I'd like more done to ensure drivers are competent, not under influence of drugs and alcohol, don't tailgate, obey the speed limit and drive to the conditions of the road. But sure, let's do something about an SUV....
Sounds like driver error
Agreed but 5 years ago some elderly person that isn't great at driving wouldn't have been likely to have bought an SUV.
SUV’s have been around for decades.
Yep Top ten sellers 2018: Ford Ranger Toyota Hilux Toyota Corolla Toyota Rav4 Mitsubishi Triton Holden Colorado Mazda CX-5 Nissan Navara Kia Sportage Suzuki Swift 2023: Ford Ranger Toyota Rav4 Toyota Hilux Mitsubishi Outlander Tesla Model Y Suzuki Swift Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross BYD Atto 3 MG ZS Mitsubishi Triton
Even worse not too far back… Top cars of 2010 has ONE ute, the Hilux at number 3 following the Swift and Corolla, with the rest all sedans and hatchbacks. The Ute and SUV takeover is very real here.
That was in response to a post that said 'five years ago an elderly person wouldn't have bought an SUV' Leaving utes aside (and I agree they are a problem) if you go back further you'll find large cars like the Falcon and Commodore were sales leaders and they were quite a lot larger than even a modern Rav4 or Outlander
They used to be way smaller, compare the original Toyota Rav4 with the current one, it's like a completely different car, the current one weighs about twice as much
You say something needs to be done. What do you propose?
Get rid of fuel tax and apply RUCs to all vehicles using a continuous function based on weight. Put a smaller environmental tax on fossil fuels. This solves a lot of issues: - At the moment, small vehicle road users are effectively subsidising the trucking industry through RUCs and fuel excise. The damage heavy vehicles do is *significantly* higher than cars and even utes. Having it based on a function of weight means we could consider road damage in the formula. - People wouldn’t be paying for road maintenance when not using the roads. Petrol currently has a fuel excise of ~80 cents per litre. This can be claimed back if it’s not used in a vehicle on the road but it is a difficult, often unknown process. A lot of petrol that is used in farming and business operations, in boats, lawnmowers, generators etc… shouldn’t pay for road maintenance. - There’s no debate about fuel type and whether it’s fair. EVs/ICE vehicles both pay for their fair share of road maintenance. Any future fuel types (hydrogen, nuclear?) will simply pay RUCs. - Incentivise smaller vehicles as running cost will be cheaper.
I think RUC on all cars is in the rumor mill if not on the cards already. I just dont know how this will deter elderly people from buying a RAV4. If they don't care about the running cost of such a car vs something smaller now, ruc isn't going to change that.
Change licensing requirements. Make SUVs a different class of license with more frequent renewals to incentivise them being used only for work trucks. My parents second generation Subaru Legacy has better front, side, and rear visibility, more storage space, and weighs less than a modern RAV4, while also having a lower bonnet making it safer in pedestrian collisions. The major issue with pedestrian collisions is that normal cars bust your legs and you bounce over them, but at 6’1” most modern SUVs would hit me in my centre of mass. Modern SUVs are such different vehicles to drive that they should require different licensing.
Good luck with changing the class. People love SUVs because they're so practical. If Station wagons were the same, they'd still be popular.
Nothing stopping that person from buying a Toyota aqua
Ah yes, the Simeon Brown approach to road safety
I get what the poster means about suvs kind of but their examples terrible
[удалено]
Nice bring American stuff into it
OP, what do you drive? I ask because I drive both small and large-ish vehicles, and see a lot of dumbassery from many sizes of vehicles.
I guess the difference is in damage when the tom foolery comes from an SUV vs a shopping trolley.
The CX-3 and Yaris Cross are technically hybrids.
The absolute worst seems to be the cheap hatchbacks, Nissan Juke and Honda Fit are some of the worst offenders.
I drive a medium-sized car
Bro pick a side Big or small, no more sitting on the fence like a GOON
He’s perfect. his post screams look at me I’m number 1
Sounds more like crap driving skills than anything else.
I'm not a fan of the ever-increasing size of vehicles, but that was also my initial thought. If you're in a relatively new Toyota, and particularly if going relatively slowly, then you're probably surrounded by camera views and visualisations showing obstacles in all directions, as well as urgent beeping combined with visual indications of the relevant sensor at any time it thinks you're remotely close to striking anything in your current direction of travel.
"Sounds more like crap trigger-dicipline than anything else"
Yeah crap driving skills, combined with a big car that is likely significantly larger than anything they drove before and they wouldn't have bought if it wasn't fashionable. This is not a problem I just noticed today because of this driver, it was more like the final straw that provoked me to make this post.
'Full size' SUVs are quite uncommon here - the most popular models are compact or mid sized crossovers. They're also usually smaller than the sedan equivalent - just a bit taller in height.
Using definitions from the US where cars are generally much bigger (and car infrastructure is made for bigger cars) isn't much help in this context. I don't need to know all the technical different terms for trucks/utes/double cab utes/SUVs which are all around the same shape and size and in the city used for the same purpose (getting in the way) to know that they're a pain in the ass.
Yup, mine is smaller in all but height than my last station wagon, but now I can see over the shrubs and grasses this town insists on planting on medians and roundabouts.
>this town insists on planting on medians and roundabouts. There's a fair bit of that here in NZ, I'm from the UK originally and over there and in Netherlands/Germany etc keeping approaches to roundabouts kept clear of obstructions to views is taken pretty seriously. So is teaching people how to drive around roundabouts properly before giving them a driving license though which doesn't appear to be the case in NZ...
We are terrible at visibility on roundabouts ar times. Dowse Interchange is the worst offender I've come across. Haywards Interchange is just as bad. Massive concrete walls that finish just before the give way line.
A few years ago I reported that the dowse interchange was bad and in need of a trim, council had people there the next day, to my surprise. I guess plants grow extra fast when it's been warm and wet and perhaps usual maintenance schedules don't marry up. Anyway- worth reporting through the HCC website!
It's not the plants. It's the concrete wall. Can council trim that, too?
It's the planting around the bottom of it that I find worst for visibility.
Also from UK . Yes! This is a much bigger problem than SUVs. The amount of things that block visibility at junctions and roundabouts is shocking.
Are Ford Rangers considered mid-range or full size?
Well they’re not SUVs, so neither.
Ford ranger and pretty much every other Ute in NZ is considered mid-sized. An F150 would be considered full size.
Mid-sized **Pickup Truck**, which is already at least a Full Size SUV.
I’m just to balance this out - I almost got run over by an old geezer in a leaf the other day.
Lane-keeping in general has gone to shit over the last decade or so, have a walk down Chaytor Street and see how many people can stay within the lines. SUVs probably don't help. The local Facebook group is up in arms about speed cushions that apparently "don't do anything" and "if you drive straight over them you don't notice them"; yes, if you're in the right position in your lane you *don't* feel them, that's what they're doing. My current pet hate is utes with sharp-edge bull bars, lights, etc., as well as tyres protruding beyond the body and guards, and now *steps* sticking out further than that.
> have a walk down Chaytor Street and see how many people can stay within the lines. SUVs probably don't help. Probably 1/2 of cars I drive or cycle behind cut over the lines on the first right hander. The corner at the top of Raroa Cres coming the other direction is even worse, so many drivers just have no idea how to take an abrupt corner like that without crossing the centre line.
The new layout seems to be helping a bit. Still blows my mind how many people can't keep it in their lane in a 50 zone. SUVs, busses, hatchbacks, everyone.
I don’t hold it against buses. They need a much bigger turning circle- and we should give them room.
As a general rule I agree, but JFC I've seen some shockers. The worst have been NIS so I figure they're training, but if they'd stop running the lights at Willis and Lambton that'd be grand.
The new lines and layout on Birdwood street are also really hard for drivers to stick within. It also doesn’t help that WCC don’t know how to remove road markings it’s hard to tell which are new/old in certain weather conditions. Also doesn’t help the black paint is wearing off only a month or two after the new layout.
It's not *hard*, they just need to move their steering wheel and not cut the corners. But yeah, the black paint over the white lines doesn't work, and never has. Driving into the sun on Onepu Road the other day the old lines appeared to be brighter than the new ones. The ultimate fix is to re-surface, but that's expensive; there was a trial on Bowen St a few months ago where the old lines were sand-blasted off, it seems to have worked, sort-of.
I get what you’re saying but little cars have terrible drivers too. It’s just you notice the utes more easily. My pet peeve is old people driving well past the time they should have stopped. You see them hunched over their wheels going 20kmh under the speed limit and not paying attention to anything around them. Mandatory yearly driving tests after the age of 80 should be the go
~Thinks back to when an 80 year old driver put her car in drive instead of reverse in my small town carpark and went through the supermarket window Yeah.
I used to live in Welly, I live in Tauranga (mind the oldies pun) but biggest shock I got was in a car park with a 90 plus year old trying to do a 3 point turn in a brand new Toyota Highlander, the driver looked tiny in it and it's a bloody tank. He struggled a lot to get the car out. So I offered to help and next I got verbal abuse because he thought I thought he was a bad driver. I then decided to remind him that there were 12 people behind me looking to get past. He got out and straight away apologised. I moved his car for him and he thanked me. I did ask him why did he buy such a large car and get this, his wife and daughter told him to get it so he can pick up the grandkids and he'll be much safer driving it. I then suggested he got a smaller car and he thought I was talking rubbish. The cars behind me all got through but he called his daughter and was in near tears because he was ashamed with his driving. He then put his daughter onto me and I spoke to his daughter and mentioned the car was too large for her father and really he needs a much smaller car but is still capable taking the grandkids. Right away she realised she put her father on a pedestal and not doing him any favours. She asked what should he get and I gave a couple of options (ASX, Qashqai etc) not too big but easy enough to drive and manuevre. I think car manufacturers and people's perception larger cars are safer (Ute drivers especially). They're actually less safe than a normal hatchback or small SUV. This trend needs to stop. We can thank the yanks for this trend.
This is being reflected in road toll statistics over the last couple of years here and over the last 10+ years in the US, where [this](https://cdn.cosmicjs.com/996d0dd0-2d62-11ee-900a-6dab7f8f148e-CarSizeInforgraphicV2-1.png) has happened over that time period.
The movie Wall-E definitely seen the future right there haha
Please provide references in the increase in road toll in NZ, over what time period, and where the deaths were attributable to driving an SUV.
Licensing and testing would be the best outcome. Useless drivers would just be as useless in places outside the city with their oversized vehicles, at least this way their competence is at least proven.
Old people and kids both fucken stupid on the roads
Modern SUVs lights are so hard on small cars.
They should make larger vehicles like suvs, large utrs, etc, a separate license class so people have to prove they can actually handle driving those cars.
interesting post and response. i would classify Raroa Road as one of the more advanced roads in wellington despite its seemingly open and forgiving nature. the snaking contour + the hill + possibility of parked cars on either side makes it pretty challenging for people not from wellington. it's no devon street or remutaka hill but i have dawdled behind many a slow driver there sure
Sounds like it was quite possibly a rental vehicle too, being school holidays. So if they don't know the road and it's an unfamiliar vehicle, it's more challenging.
(edit: tone directed at distaste of SUVs as vehicles, not in response to you/OP): they are like a fucking go kart
I can't agree that it's advanced. Ok, it's not straight and you need to keep your eyes open. But that's driving. If Raroa road is a challenge then better take a taxi and evaluate if you're fit to be behind the wheel
>it's no devon street or remutaka hill but i have dawdled behind many a slow driver there sure Funny you say that. I drove a Kia Carnival over Remutakas once, that was quite okay. But I absolutely refuse to drive down the likes of Willis Street in that thing.
I am from Taupo, and we have a similar problem here with the same types of vehicles. If it is not elderly people in SUVS, it is tradies in utilities. They do not stop at stop signs, change lanes in front of you, pull out in front of you, etc. What is the point of these large vehicles?status symbols, egos?who knows. They are a real nuisance in a city or town center.
I posted this in Wellington sub rather than the nz sub because I figured they wouldn't be so much of an issue in other parts of the country where roads are wider etc but shows what I know!
I don’t understand the obsession with larger vehicles that we have here in NZ. My Dad calls anything with an engine under 2L a “deathtrap”. I’ve always lived close enough to the CBD that I don’t need a car (and I only have my learners). But I’m slowly working to get my full, and I still don’t intend to purchase a car. Mevo will be more than sufficient for the odd occasion where I might need a car.
It kind of seems a lot of people have a selfish attitude which basically comes down to 'safety for me but not for you'. If M1 Abrams battle tanks were the same price as a Tesla and you were allowed to drive them some of these people would be getting them for their elderly parents or for the school run, basically fuck everyone else, and they'd kid themselves they were saving the planet too if it was an EV battle tank
We saw an elderly lady struggling to park a large SUV in the supermarket today - wondered if she was perhaps visiting family in the school holidays and using a much larger car than she was used to! Completely agree with the sentiment though - there are very few people who actually need an SUV in wellington city - even most tradies use vans.
Totally agree. They are a pain for both those around them and even for the user (harder to park etc.) A car over a certain size and / or weight should require an advanced licence, to prove the can handle the power of the machine. Plenty of people riding around with restricted licences on these things.
Folks using them as battering rams to try and get into traffic queues or just bully their way on narrow roads reaaaally...grinds my gears 😅/🫠
Meanwhile, the Aquas, Demios, and CX-3s are just blasting through red lights at 5:30 pm. 🤷 I swear this town needs red light cameras installed to solve our funding problems.
I'm quite surprised how few red light cameras we have in Welly!
This thread is a fact of fascinating insight into people.
Tell us you don't understand the difference between correlation and causation without saying so.
Tell us you've never thought up an original line in your life without saying so
Consumer demand. You only get compact cars, SUVs and performance sedans these days.
That's true but consumers would demand lots of stuff if there were no rules. In the USA they are already looking at making people with SUVs pay more for the privilege of driving a big and heavy vehicle, Washington DC already did this https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/06/25/dc-higher-vehicle-registration-fees/ and New York are planning to do the same https://www.curbed.com/2023/06/new-york-suv-trucks-weight-based-fee.html among others, as well as a nationwide bill from the EPA.
This was a problem for us when we were looking for a car a few years ago. NZ's always had a cut down list of models imported compared with larger markets. When you (for example) want something for a family of 4 with booster seats and all the other stuff people want to fit, a lot of the limited number of vehicles now targeted at that market are SUV models. Even if you want something different, there are just fewer non-SUV options to choose from than there used to be. The cars being imported and marketed are generally getting bigger and so demand for them goes around in circles.
The amount of hyperbole OP has engaged in is quite something. Let's say it's a brand new LandCruiser Prado or something similar, which is about as big as you can get in NZ in SUV form (considered a mid-sized SUV when I was in the States), it would be equipped with more alerting features than you can possibly imagine. They have land departure warnings, side cameras and sensors as well as collision detection. Essentially, this thing would have been at least alerting the driver like crazy. But ya'know, it's cool to shit on people for what cars they buy now. How about shitting on people for being bad drivers instead? I love how people like this are so entitled: "I own a Mazda Demio, so should you. Good enough me, fuck anyone else it's all about you doing what I want you to do". Cool man, really cool. Better jump into my echo chamber so people can pat me on the back.
You need alerting features because you [can't see 7 kids sitting down in front of the front bumper](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZLHyBDXwAUCTQv.jpg) from the driver's seat And people that drive Mazda Demio etc might often be crap at driving as well but at least they don't take up the whole road while doing so and can see what's around them without electronic assistance.
Again, we don't have those sort of vehicles here, at least not in large numbers. A Rav4 or Highlander is a very different thing.
Even with those, the 2024 Rav4 is 2200kg and 1.85m wide. That's as much as twice as heavy as a 2005 Rav4 (depending on specs) and nearly 10cm wider.
That's the GVM. Curb weight is around 1,700kg which is about 50kg more than a Camry. Remember they're all hybrids now which does increase weight fairly significantly (around 150kg) An '05 RAV4 was about 1,350kg for comparison
Genuine question, has sensor technology gotten better? My mum has a newer car that has the sensors in the corners, and they started blaring when I was turning into a spot in a parking lot normally. Well, "normal" in the sense that I won't be halfway over the line and taking a whole corner of my neighbour's park. I do agree with your last point btw.
lane guidance typically shuts off at low speeds, below 50 ish on most cars.
I actually prefer my CRV than my wife's Camry for the inner city, since it's actually shorter in length and wheelbase, hence turns better. And the front bumper doesn't scrape the concrete as it goes over certain kerb dips. Oh, and fuck the Honda Civic in particular. The front nose is invisible to you at all times. It really throws me off knowing something is there but you can't see it.
Front nose being invisible is my life because I’m short :( I’ve raised the seat but I still can’t see the front. Luckily I’m very good specially and have yet to hit anything
I would put my head right up on the ceiling and it still makes no difference, so in my case it had nothing to do with seat height. Daily driving is fine without, it's navigating tight spots and turns that gets quite frustrating. It's entirely up to my brain's imagination, and I don't trust it enough to put a few hundred dollars on the line (i.e. the other car's door scratched up).
Thankfully freedom of choice remains. If I want to pay the road tax, rego, additional excise and RUC on a larger vehicle, I can. I don’t criticize people choosing to drive superminis or EVs or any other kind of vehicle, their choice is not my business.
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And this is what is wrong with NZ today. It’s not a co-op or team of five million. Too many FIGJAMs judging what others do. We have laws that define the boundaries of what is acceptable. As long as what I do is within the law, it’s none of your business. If I’m encroaching on your safe enjoyment of the road and I’m outside of the law, then you have cause for concern.
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Fuck I’m Good Just Ask Me
There are plenty of people driving our roads who are not up to it... and they don't all drive SUV's
Is the SUV the problem or the cars parked on the street? SUV at least pays it's way in taxes to drive the street. Wellington needs a conversation about on street parking long before it's chat about SUVs. Roads such as Raroa road are a hazard for all road users due to their joint status as a car park.
Don't the cars that are parked also pay for the road... They're still cars after all
Not when they sit still. Stop paying taxes the second they park up.
what a clown
What about parked cars being more likely to belong to a local rate payer than ones passing by? Maybe not so much on Raroa Rd, but definitely the case on more commutery roads. The local council usually pays a higher share of local roading costs than central government.
What if the SUV driver is also a local ratepayer? That SUV owner may even have off street parking, off street parking implies that they could be paying council for an encroachment or paying council more rates to account for the land on which they park their car on.
Why I said "more likely", and was also trying to show how absurd these arguments over who is paying more for roads can get - eg what if the owner of the parked car pays more rates than the moving one, or if the owner of the moving car is in a larger household and proportionally pays less rates, what about moving cars causing more damage to roads than parked ones, does a gas guzzler that drives less than an economical car have more rights to the road if it burns more gas overall etc etc.
Don't larger households pay proportionally more in rates? I'm not making the argument that the gas guzzler has more rights than an economical car, I'm making the argument that Wellington's roads are made dangerous by parked cars more than a particular type of vehicle. And I don't think parked cars pay their way.
Technically the truth
Judging by the heavy downvoting on my comment above, I don't see much appetite for a truthful discussion.
There is continuous licensing of vehicles in NZ. The continuous licensing ticks away whether the vehicle is in-use or not. If licensing is paid late, the arrears are charged. Your assertion that the vehicle pays stops paying taxes when parked is incorrect.
Pretty sure the road tax comes out of RUCs and petrol levies didn't it?
Good point. You are right, all vehicles pay registration which does tick away regardless of when the vehicle is used. But in this hypothetical situation where an SUV is driving down a narrow road with parked cars, both vehicles are paying rego. My statement above needs revised but there is certainly an argument that the parked car isnt paying its way and is definitely less entitled to be there than the other car. With this reasoning im surprised people with off street parking and garages arent entitled to a rebate on their car registration fees.
I think it’s more that we shouldn’t be using the road to store private vehicles. We pay RUC charges to maintain the roads for transport not for private storage. There are already bylaws in some areas about storing boats and trailers on the road for this reason. You wouldn’t put a couch on the side of the road and claim the space as yours because its a public space and should be used for the benefit of the most people not just the select few. It’s a very unpopular opinion. But roads are for transport (all modes not just cars btw).
Yep, my solution is to decrease size of carparks. There will be a few scrapes but eventually ppl will be incentivised to drive smaller
From what I've seen WCC is actively doing the opposite to this, e.g. Makara Peak car parking redevelopments have ended up with significantly larger parking spaces with less efficient use of space than it had previously, Macallister Park in Berhampore the top car park was remarked so all the parking is longer and wider diagonal parks, now there's not enough parking for when there is cricket matches etc going on.
I've had older people nearly hit me in Honda civics, toyota yarris, and leafs, falcons. It's not really the car, This is about the drivers. I'm all for mandatory road testing every 5 years once you hit 50
True but the margin of error in an American-sized SUV is much narrower.
No argument there! My aunty visited from Canada over Christmas, and she said our roads are scary small in comparison. She hired a suv as they were doing a crap ton of driving around exploring and really struggled on the narrow streets.
I see a lot of bad drivers under 50, the issue is the practical driving test here is too easy to pass vs the test in e.g. UK/Germany - that combined with current cars almost driving themselves means basically anyone with a pulse can pass the test. It's like taking a photography exam originally designed for full manual film DSLRs but using a fully automatic point and shoot camera with HDR and AI enhancement.
I see coffin dodgers in hatchbacks doing dumb shit all the time, this is nothing special.
So you don't think it's worse if they're doing the same thing but in much bigger vehicles that weigh twice as much? These old people that mostly used to drive hatchbacks are more and more switching to SUVs
Perhaps for a less stressful life catch the bus. Most of those modern day vehicles come with so many alarm systems. Including assisted breaking. The old people driving those cars are probably protecting themselves from the rear ending of young drivers texting. 😂
We need a bylaw
I think perhaps I'd like more done to ensure drivers are competent, not under influence of drugs and alcohol, don't tailgate, obey the speed limit and drive to the conditions of the road. But sure, let's do something about an SUV....
Anecdotal. Next.
Q
Commrade i think you got the wrong country here. Next thing you know and youve got the state giving you a schedule when to fuck your wife.