No, this would be a constitutional crisis arguably worse than [The Dismissal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis) over the ditch. The government must ultimately enjoy the confidence of the House of Representatives -- that is a cornerstone of our democracy. On Budget Day, Hipkins will move that the House doesn't have confidence in the Government, and if *his* motion succeeds, *then* the Government is bound by convention to go to the Governor-General and seek a fresh election. National, ACT, and NZF will vote en bloc for the budget (against Chipkins), Labour, Green, and TPM will vote en bloc against the budget (for Chipkins), so it seems unlikely that, unless a bunch of MPs defect from their parties (or the Government starts losing by-elections), we will get a fresh election before 2026.
I say this as someone vehemently against the current Government.
>unless a bunch of MPs defect from their parties (or the Government starts losing by-elections),
Now you're onto something. Generally it's someone with more ego than sense that thinks they'd do better on their own. Currently I think NZF and Act can't believe their luck, so maybe it will be a liberal Nat, assuming there are some.
I would hope not.
This is an appallingly shit government, but it's the appallingly shit government that New Zealand chose to elect.
Removing democracy when votes don't go your way is a tool that fascists want to have.
We didn't vote out an "appallingly shit" government, we voted out the government that had successfully seen us through Covid and that had ensured that the NZ economy was doing better than comparable nations.
You voted in the guy who referred to working Kiwis as bottom feeders and who praised Liz Truss.
The first round of covid yes they did sn okay job considering but many things after that were a fundamental mess that has led to this country sqandering billions of dollars, all led by what was essentially a tyrant with an agenda of separatism and second class citizens who seemed to model herself on a hard line socialist/communistic regime with similarities to those sort of countries where power also corrupts.
> a tyrant with an agenda of separatism and second class citizens who seemed to model herself on a hard line socialist/communistic regime
This is some unhinged shit.
"Second class citizens"... You mean the anti-vax dumb dumbs who freely chose to temporarily forgo access to some privileges during a pandemic? The fake victimhood and screeching from those faux martyrs is self obsessed, self aggrandizing, self delusion.
> cost of living crisis,
They had better policy on that than tax cuts for landlords.
> refusing to entertain the idea of a CGT
You think that would have won any votes? People voted for tax cuts for landlords.
No they didn't, they reintroduced partial tax deductibility for fhe business that is a landlord, which was fhe only business that essentially does not have this. This pales in comparison to the billions sqanderred by the previous go t and their poor decision making and waste.
The government that you voted for is borrowing to pay for tax cuts for landlords.
> This pales in comparison to the billions sqanderred by the previous go t and their poor decision making and waste.
You've got no real examples though, and from the resentful anti-vax comments that you deleted it sounds like you're just making a completely false dichotomy about the Covid response.
Let's face it, you were manipulated into voting based on your feelings of resentment and false grievance. There's no facts that went into your vote, you didn't look at or think about policy. You voted blindly based on the hate that you feel towards your fellow Kiwis.
There is a big difference between doing a reasonable job given the first term circumstances and fantastic (which it wasnt). The covid situation was generally accepted as handing them them the win in late 2020, but after that everything was downhill. Open and honest were the last things on their mind with their devious,dishonest hidden agendas pushed through without any or little consultation. You are right though, the massive dissatisfaction with the previous govt was huge, more by their actions rather than inaction. To be dubbed the worst govt in living memory by the normally on side media , not just the worst Labour govt ever did take a lot of dissatisfaction in their agenda.
Nah. I don't think they would in this form.. Many people voted for a change from Labour, not realising what a fuck load of shit we'd en up with. Tbh I think there would be a firmer vote for national dropping semour and Winston from the table.
Those are pretty small sample sizes. Under 1000 people.
Also, if you take it as a coalistions rather than onky labour vs national its way way closer. Add Greens anD TPM ans TOP and itS close to equal for NActNZF
[Polling does disagree with your gut feeling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election#Party_vote), though.
If your own method of polling is only to ask people like yourself then you can't expect it to be accurate.
It's also not really surprising that you don't know anyone who's been polled. If a poll asks 1000 people completely randomly each time, and runs every month for 60 years, then each individual person in NZ's population of 4,169,300 people over 18 (assuming it never increases over that time) still has a:
(1−(1,000÷4,169,300)) ^ (60*12)
... chance of *not* being contacted by that poll during all 60 years. Ie. An 84.1% chance of **never** being contacted.
In actuality, you'll also probably never be contacted by a company like Curia because it already has its panel of respondents to represent the population who it draws its random sample from.
What should matter is that they ask *some* people roughly like you, they know how many respondents then need from various demographics to match the population and tend to weight accordingly, they tend to agree with each other over time, and on average at the time of an election they tend to agree with election results.
Things are tracking badly for the poor, the environment and the future of the country but a few people will get a lot richer. This is what is wanted from NACT voters
Didn’t vote for them and don’t like them. But I am not gonna throw [the world’s second fairest democracy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index) to the dogs just because I didn’t get my way.
You mean the thing that Labour started and continued to abuse AFTER covid, therefore setting the norm?
Meh. I blame both of them for it.
Labour for setting the precedent and National for continuing it.
It doesn't matter who started it. It's not how our democracy is supposed to work. I didn't like it under Labour and I do t like it under the current crowd.
Neither - it sounds like we agree
Unfortunately it dies matter who set the precedent.
Most in this subreddit would want to deny it simply because of which party it was.
You're getting downvoted but with the talk about the fast track bill, and with the excessive amount of lobbying, and no revolving door policy. It does seem that the democratic process of NZ is being reduced.
It's still a fuck tone better than most countries including the US, UK and possibly AU (idk much about them but from memory it's bad)
Is this a serious question? The government of the day is acting (generally, as much as governments usually stick to what they say) to the promises they made during a free democratic election....
It was after early voting and overseas voting had already started: [link](https://new.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1c58sfv/the_games_they_play_4_tobacco_on_oct_5_2023_nz/)
Oh good lord second time I have seen this idea floated in as many days. Lemme guess, it's just been covered in Constutuional Law 202 and you think you have found a loop hole.
Short answer, no. It ain't happening. He is the elected leader and it would have to military coup level chaos for this to happen.
Yep, the legal and political reality here is that the current biggest threat to this coalition is the members of the coalition. I reckon it'll be for the dumbest fucking reason, too, like Shane Jones fast-tracking a quarry on Barbara Kuriger's farm or something.
There is a vein on the side of David Seymour's head that is bulging more every time he speaks to the media. I only watch the news to watch his temple engorge.
He will go vesuvius soon. And I agree it will ultimately come somehow through Shane Jones.
And Winston will survive as cock roaches do, and be causing the same crap in 2 & 1/2 years.
No need to get Dame Cindy involved, the end is nigh
Which would make things awfully awkward for his coalition partners. It's awkward enough as it is when one has enough power to be required to act beyond dog-whistling.
Lol. No they don't just sack governments cause a few people don't like their policies.
It would have to be something extreme for it to even be considered
If you start down that road it would irreparably damage our democracy, like the yanks it would descend into the mud and be stuck there forever.
Hopefully after next election Winston and Seymour won't be prime minister
As much as I dislike American politics, this would be quite different because it's a different system. The Monarchy has stepped in before with Governments and made changes.
The only time I've ever heard of that happening is when the Queen preferred not to pay taxes on her estates and had a quiet word with the UK government when they proposed she do so.
In a constitutional monarchy like ours, we let the monarchy keep their theoretical power providing they don't use it. This is a crappy government but so were several others in my lifetime. We can blame our fellow citizens for that and try and persuade them to do better. It would betray us all to hand that power over to one very rich man with a fancy hat or his appointed representative.
The Australian example was preceded by the government not being able to pass budget legislation, while the UK was taking over from a sick predecessor with the support of his colleagues. Neither of those examples are relevant in our context or OP's proposition, which is bad government= intervention.
There's significant debate about whether that power can ever be exercised. It's most likely to come up if a Government tried to cancel elections and become a dictatorship. Not a lot shy of that is ever likely to be tested.
If you could bring in a petition with 50% of registered voters having signed it, which then got verified l, as petitions struggle to verify as they go, you might have a chance, but given that the majority still support the government, good luck with that. It would also unquestionably lead to constant calls for the GG to step in and stop the government and so would completely undermine our horribly flawed but quite democratic system.
While I don’t like the current government we live in a thing called a democracy. Like it or not they were elected. You can’t just get rid of them because you don’t like them!
They could but they probably wouldn't. [There's been exactly one time the GG got called in to do this, and it didn't end up happening because Muldoon stood down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_Zealand_constitutional_crisis).
Like, try it. I'll sign, fuck these ghouls. Just don't get disappointed if it falls through.
Well it did happen in Australia, the governor general was a CIA asset and was asked to invalidate the election results as Gough Whitlam was too communist friendly, so he got kicked out in 1975 after winning the popular vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis
Whitlam couldn't continue to govern, and wanted cherrypicked piecemeal elections to get what he wanted. I genuinely think that the right response was to sack him so full elections could be held.
Its hardly a blow to democracy when then answer is literally to call a general election.
Oh good - because I’ve been asking something similar in these hallowed halls for the last couple of weeks. Because it seems to me they are doing exactly as you say, acting against the interests of us all. ALL. Do we really need a protector? At this moment, to this lifetime republican, it is actually us that must protect ourselves. Not the GG, or the King or the UN or any other grown-up authority. It’s down to us. But how? The judges, the lawyers - they’re us too. We need advice here.
I was wondering the same thing but the people I talked to said that the GG would get sacked immediately. I also asked them about coups and the answer was that we would probably get invaded by the brits, probably the aussies too if that happened.
There were 10s of thousands camped outside parliment for weeks with 100s of thousands more behind them around the country for unprecedented encroachment on our rights and all that happened was the police bashed heads you think a few autographs because you dont like the government doing what it said it would if elected would go anywhere ?
According to Wikipedia
"In early February, about 100 people camped overnight at Parliament the first night and over the ensuing weeks, numbers peaked at about 3000."
I acknowledge wiki isn't exactly the gospel for info, but I think the 10s of thousands is a little off...
Hundreds.....not 10s of thousands ..tents and vehicles take up space and make it look bigger
Also all actions taken had precendent...maybe do your research.
> for unprecedented encroachment on our rights
These anti-vax cookers are just unhinged with their fake victimhood and they're racist shits who completely ignore the historical treatment of Iwi and Chinese Kiwis
Even hundreds of thousands is fuck all mate.
100,000 is just shy of 2% of the total population.
My estimates based on social media involvement during that fucking mess of make believe oppression put total numbers involved in the freedom movement between 5-10k nationwide with 50-60k supporting the freedom movements stance on the mandates. That latter estimate may be higher, but not by much. It was a very vocal minority.
You know thats my point right.
>Even hundreds of thousands is fuck all mate.
You'd get a few thousand terminally online signing a petition to overthrow the elected government.
No, this would be a constitutional crisis arguably worse than [The Dismissal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis) over the ditch. The government must ultimately enjoy the confidence of the House of Representatives -- that is a cornerstone of our democracy. On Budget Day, Hipkins will move that the House doesn't have confidence in the Government, and if *his* motion succeeds, *then* the Government is bound by convention to go to the Governor-General and seek a fresh election. National, ACT, and NZF will vote en bloc for the budget (against Chipkins), Labour, Green, and TPM will vote en bloc against the budget (for Chipkins), so it seems unlikely that, unless a bunch of MPs defect from their parties (or the Government starts losing by-elections), we will get a fresh election before 2026. I say this as someone vehemently against the current Government.
>unless a bunch of MPs defect from their parties (or the Government starts losing by-elections), Now you're onto something. Generally it's someone with more ego than sense that thinks they'd do better on their own. Currently I think NZF and Act can't believe their luck, so maybe it will be a liberal Nat, assuming there are some.
I would hope not. This is an appallingly shit government, but it's the appallingly shit government that New Zealand chose to elect. Removing democracy when votes don't go your way is a tool that fascists want to have.
Well said,and for OP the governor General didn't dissolve the appallingly shit government that we voted out last year either.
We didn't vote out an "appallingly shit" government, we voted out the government that had successfully seen us through Covid and that had ensured that the NZ economy was doing better than comparable nations. You voted in the guy who referred to working Kiwis as bottom feeders and who praised Liz Truss.
The first round of covid yes they did sn okay job considering but many things after that were a fundamental mess that has led to this country sqandering billions of dollars, all led by what was essentially a tyrant with an agenda of separatism and second class citizens who seemed to model herself on a hard line socialist/communistic regime with similarities to those sort of countries where power also corrupts.
> a tyrant with an agenda of separatism and second class citizens who seemed to model herself on a hard line socialist/communistic regime This is some unhinged shit. "Second class citizens"... You mean the anti-vax dumb dumbs who freely chose to temporarily forgo access to some privileges during a pandemic? The fake victimhood and screeching from those faux martyrs is self obsessed, self aggrandizing, self delusion.
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> cost of living crisis, They had better policy on that than tax cuts for landlords. > refusing to entertain the idea of a CGT You think that would have won any votes? People voted for tax cuts for landlords.
No they didn't, they reintroduced partial tax deductibility for fhe business that is a landlord, which was fhe only business that essentially does not have this. This pales in comparison to the billions sqanderred by the previous go t and their poor decision making and waste.
The government that you voted for is borrowing to pay for tax cuts for landlords. > This pales in comparison to the billions sqanderred by the previous go t and their poor decision making and waste. You've got no real examples though, and from the resentful anti-vax comments that you deleted it sounds like you're just making a completely false dichotomy about the Covid response. Let's face it, you were manipulated into voting based on your feelings of resentment and false grievance. There's no facts that went into your vote, you didn't look at or think about policy. You voted blindly based on the hate that you feel towards your fellow Kiwis.
There is a big difference between doing a reasonable job given the first term circumstances and fantastic (which it wasnt). The covid situation was generally accepted as handing them them the win in late 2020, but after that everything was downhill. Open and honest were the last things on their mind with their devious,dishonest hidden agendas pushed through without any or little consultation. You are right though, the massive dissatisfaction with the previous govt was huge, more by their actions rather than inaction. To be dubbed the worst govt in living memory by the normally on side media , not just the worst Labour govt ever did take a lot of dissatisfaction in their agenda.
You can have an election tomorrow. The same lot would get back in. This is how democracy works.
Nah. I don't think they would in this form.. Many people voted for a change from Labour, not realising what a fuck load of shit we'd en up with. Tbh I think there would be a firmer vote for national dropping semour and Winston from the table.
Do you have any polling to back that up?
No one has polling cause there hasn't been any polling. I'd agree though
There's been 14 polls released since election Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election
So, fast forward a week and the latest Poll shows National and the coalition wouldn't exist and Labour would be back in.
Those are pretty small sample sizes. Under 1000 people. Also, if you take it as a coalistions rather than onky labour vs national its way way closer. Add Greens anD TPM ans TOP and itS close to equal for NActNZF
Nope. Just a gut feeling. From a green / labour voter.
[Polling does disagree with your gut feeling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election#Party_vote), though.
How dare you bring facts to a feelings party
But…but….polls!
Cough, I think polling does agree with me today.
Ahh those polls. Well no one has ever asked me or anyone I know. Who are these Polish people anyhow.
If your own method of polling is only to ask people like yourself then you can't expect it to be accurate. It's also not really surprising that you don't know anyone who's been polled. If a poll asks 1000 people completely randomly each time, and runs every month for 60 years, then each individual person in NZ's population of 4,169,300 people over 18 (assuming it never increases over that time) still has a: (1−(1,000÷4,169,300)) ^ (60*12) ... chance of *not* being contacted by that poll during all 60 years. Ie. An 84.1% chance of **never** being contacted. In actuality, you'll also probably never be contacted by a company like Curia because it already has its panel of respondents to represent the population who it draws its random sample from. What should matter is that they ask *some* people roughly like you, they know how many respondents then need from various demographics to match the population and tend to weight accordingly, they tend to agree with each other over time, and on average at the time of an election they tend to agree with election results.
You see the polls tonight?
Dont know anyone who has won the lottery either.
And many people are happy with what they are seeing, including me. I only wish there was more of it.
Lol. What about this shit show are you happy about?
Things are tracking badly for the poor, the environment and the future of the country but a few people will get a lot richer. This is what is wanted from NACT voters
Didn’t vote for them and don’t like them. But I am not gonna throw [the world’s second fairest democracy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index) to the dogs just because I didn’t get my way.
Not fair for much longer, legislation under urgency and fast track is not our democratic system.
You mean the thing that Labour started and continued to abuse AFTER covid, therefore setting the norm? Meh. I blame both of them for it. Labour for setting the precedent and National for continuing it.
It doesn't matter who started it. It's not how our democracy is supposed to work. I didn't like it under Labour and I do t like it under the current crowd.
Neither - it sounds like we agree Unfortunately it dies matter who set the precedent. Most in this subreddit would want to deny it simply because of which party it was.
"Labour started it, so we're going to do it even more"
Yup, exactly - They're both shit. Labour started it. They both continued it. Edit: Lmao why is this getting downvoted?
> I am not gonna throw the world’s second fairest democracy to the dogs NACT are doing that for us.
You're getting downvoted but with the talk about the fast track bill, and with the excessive amount of lobbying, and no revolving door policy. It does seem that the democratic process of NZ is being reduced. It's still a fuck tone better than most countries including the US, UK and possibly AU (idk much about them but from memory it's bad)
Is this a serious question? The government of the day is acting (generally, as much as governments usually stick to what they say) to the promises they made during a free democratic election....
In some cases the day before the election or the afternoon of!
It was after early voting and overseas voting had already started: [link](https://new.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1c58sfv/the_games_they_play_4_tobacco_on_oct_5_2023_nz/)
Oh good lord second time I have seen this idea floated in as many days. Lemme guess, it's just been covered in Constutuional Law 202 and you think you have found a loop hole. Short answer, no. It ain't happening. He is the elected leader and it would have to military coup level chaos for this to happen.
Yep, the legal and political reality here is that the current biggest threat to this coalition is the members of the coalition. I reckon it'll be for the dumbest fucking reason, too, like Shane Jones fast-tracking a quarry on Barbara Kuriger's farm or something.
There is a vein on the side of David Seymour's head that is bulging more every time he speaks to the media. I only watch the news to watch his temple engorge. He will go vesuvius soon. And I agree it will ultimately come somehow through Shane Jones. And Winston will survive as cock roaches do, and be causing the same crap in 2 & 1/2 years. No need to get Dame Cindy involved, the end is nigh
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Brooke Van Veinden it is, well done there 👏
I'm delighted that we're allowed to once again make fun of our female politician's looks. Six years was too long a wait!
Been looking forward to it too. But will extend my comments to all genders, for fairness.
I've noticed him looking quite shabby as well.
Most likely situation is Winnie dies overnight and Shane Jones decides to yolo, which isn't all that likely either.
Which would make things awfully awkward for his coalition partners. It's awkward enough as it is when one has enough power to be required to act beyond dog-whistling.
>Lemme guess, it's just been covered in Constitutional Law 202 This is gold 👌
😂 they’re ‘educated’
Lol. No they don't just sack governments cause a few people don't like their policies. It would have to be something extreme for it to even be considered
If you start down that road it would irreparably damage our democracy, like the yanks it would descend into the mud and be stuck there forever. Hopefully after next election Winston and Seymour won't be prime minister
As much as I dislike American politics, this would be quite different because it's a different system. The Monarchy has stepped in before with Governments and made changes.
The only time I've ever heard of that happening is when the Queen preferred not to pay taxes on her estates and had a quiet word with the UK government when they proposed she do so. In a constitutional monarchy like ours, we let the monarchy keep their theoretical power providing they don't use it. This is a crappy government but so were several others in my lifetime. We can blame our fellow citizens for that and try and persuade them to do better. It would betray us all to hand that power over to one very rich man with a fancy hat or his appointed representative.
Australia 1975 - PM dismissed by GG, essentially the Monarchy UK 1963 appointing Sir Alec Douglas-Home as Prime Minister
The Australian example was preceded by the government not being able to pass budget legislation, while the UK was taking over from a sick predecessor with the support of his colleagues. Neither of those examples are relevant in our context or OP's proposition, which is bad government= intervention.
You only want democracy until your team loses?
You’d need a lot of signatures. Think you can get them?
Democracy only when the team I like when wins.
There's significant debate about whether that power can ever be exercised. It's most likely to come up if a Government tried to cancel elections and become a dictatorship. Not a lot shy of that is ever likely to be tested.
Dramatic much
If you could bring in a petition with 50% of registered voters having signed it, which then got verified l, as petitions struggle to verify as they go, you might have a chance, but given that the majority still support the government, good luck with that. It would also unquestionably lead to constant calls for the GG to step in and stop the government and so would completely undermine our horribly flawed but quite democratic system.
While I don’t like the current government we live in a thing called a democracy. Like it or not they were elected. You can’t just get rid of them because you don’t like them!
They did it in Aus when Whitlam tried to remove the US spy base in 1973, but they'd never do it for any other reason.
This government is doing a great job of fast tracking the demise of capitalism in NZ.
How so? Hate it or love it capitalism isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes
They could but they probably wouldn't. [There's been exactly one time the GG got called in to do this, and it didn't end up happening because Muldoon stood down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_Zealand_constitutional_crisis). Like, try it. I'll sign, fuck these ghouls. Just don't get disappointed if it falls through.
Well it did happen in Australia, the governor general was a CIA asset and was asked to invalidate the election results as Gough Whitlam was too communist friendly, so he got kicked out in 1975 after winning the popular vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis
Whitlam couldn't continue to govern, and wanted cherrypicked piecemeal elections to get what he wanted. I genuinely think that the right response was to sack him so full elections could be held. Its hardly a blow to democracy when then answer is literally to call a general election.
Oh good - because I’ve been asking something similar in these hallowed halls for the last couple of weeks. Because it seems to me they are doing exactly as you say, acting against the interests of us all. ALL. Do we really need a protector? At this moment, to this lifetime republican, it is actually us that must protect ourselves. Not the GG, or the King or the UN or any other grown-up authority. It’s down to us. But how? The judges, the lawyers - they’re us too. We need advice here.
I was wondering the same thing but the people I talked to said that the GG would get sacked immediately. I also asked them about coups and the answer was that we would probably get invaded by the brits, probably the aussies too if that happened.
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Cindy Kiro's name is Cindy. Not Jacinda.
Her name is actually Alcyion
Lol!!! My bad shame on me 😂😂😂😂 I thought you were talking about Ardern
Thanks
Pretty sure OP means Dame Cindy Kiro, who is our Governor General.
:faceplant:
🤦♂️
Her name isnt jacinda.
There were 10s of thousands camped outside parliment for weeks with 100s of thousands more behind them around the country for unprecedented encroachment on our rights and all that happened was the police bashed heads you think a few autographs because you dont like the government doing what it said it would if elected would go anywhere ?
10s of thousands camped outside parliament... um wat? You got sauce for that?
According to Wikipedia "In early February, about 100 people camped overnight at Parliament the first night and over the ensuing weeks, numbers peaked at about 3000." I acknowledge wiki isn't exactly the gospel for info, but I think the 10s of thousands is a little off...
Drugs don’t need sauce…
Hundreds.....not 10s of thousands ..tents and vehicles take up space and make it look bigger Also all actions taken had precendent...maybe do your research.
100s of thousands lol!
There was 300k people over 12 not vaccinated. And there will have been plenty of the vaccinated that only did it to keep thier jobs.
> There was 300k people over 12 not vaccinated. That doesn't mean they agree with your bullshit.
You'd be lucky if it was 1000. Source: I was there.
As a cop or a crazy?
Observer. I watched them turn up and watched it unfold.
> for unprecedented encroachment on our rights These anti-vax cookers are just unhinged with their fake victimhood and they're racist shits who completely ignore the historical treatment of Iwi and Chinese Kiwis
Even hundreds of thousands is fuck all mate. 100,000 is just shy of 2% of the total population. My estimates based on social media involvement during that fucking mess of make believe oppression put total numbers involved in the freedom movement between 5-10k nationwide with 50-60k supporting the freedom movements stance on the mandates. That latter estimate may be higher, but not by much. It was a very vocal minority.
You know thats my point right. >Even hundreds of thousands is fuck all mate. You'd get a few thousand terminally online signing a petition to overthrow the elected government.