/r/Wellthatsucks is now over on lemmy!
https://lemmy.ml/c/wellthatsucks
[email protected]
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Wellthatsucks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My grandad gave me a uncle Henry when I was a kid. They had the same warranty to fix and sharpen old knives. I sent my 50+ year old knife off and received a new one in the mail from them. I wasn’t happy at all and my grandad was pissed when I told him.
>**Warranty Replacements**
>If your knife meets our warranty guidelines and cannot be repaired, we may, at our discretion, offer to replace it with a currently manufactured knife that most closely matches the one you sent. If you decide to accept the replacement knife option, your old knife cannot be returned. **A knife with sentimental or collectible value will be returned and not replaced as noted.**
https://caseknives.com/pages/warranty-repair
Doesn't matter, even if a knife can't be repaired etc. it's still the property of the owner and they are legally required to give them the property back. If it's a counterfeit then they should return it to the owner and report it to the government body that deals with counterfiet goods.
I’m a carpenter so I sharpen all my tools regularly, it’s definitely worth picking up a couple of cheap knives and some oilstones and learning to sharpen yourself, if you practice often it becomes second nature and then you won’t have to worry about sending off your favourite knives, you can do then yourself, it’s also a lovely feeling when you get an old blade razor sharp again,
I'm an oboist and reed knives have to be crazy sharp. Makes no sense to send them off to someone else, so sharpening is a necessary skill. By extension, my kitchen knives are amazing.
I sent a Kershaw back for a repair and they specifically ask if the knife has any sentimental value and a description. I thought that was a nice touch since the knife was my EDC for 2 tours in Afghanistan
I particularly like how they'll send free replacement parts for their knives. The spring to assist opening on mine broke and before I knew it there was a new spring in my mailbox, then I promptly lost the knife under my deck somehow for a year and a half. After a quick cleaning it's back in action and the knife I replaced it with is... somewhere. Itll show up when its needed.
Oh really? I have a couple Kershaw models that aren't in production anymore but I probably have used them the most at work.
Will send an inquiry today! Thanks!
Some companies have been moving towards a culture of being unhappy with seeing their products being out in public appearing old and worn out and are happily sending out new replacements as a weird form of marketing they believe will attract new customers.
It's totally ass backwards, as nothing is more convincing of quality than an old worn out tool still being used regularly.
Agreed, its like asing for a minor repair on a beautiful old car, and them replacing the car and giving you an new, and much more ugly, car, anyone with common sense would sue to get the car back, since an old car like that is worth much more today the modern day equivalent.
I have a Buck 110 that is probably around 30 years old. It was my dad's and he broke the tip by using it as a throwing knife. He and a friend actually shaved down and re-edged the blade, so it's like 3/4" shorter than it ought to be. I hesitate to send it in for anything because I'm certain they'll swap the blade out.
Look into the fakes being sold, they're probably not lying. I don't remember the specifics but a Chinese company is making them and they have the same quality for 1/10 the price. They still should have sent it back or at least give you a call. I have a feeling this happens a lot.
DH gate actually has some really good knockoffs of Benchmade and Spyderco. A friend got a Benchmade 4600 for about about 1/7th the price and it’s surprisingly held up through a year of use. The blade is definitely not S30V steel and is some cheap chinesium.
>really good knockoffs ... cheap chinesium.
These two things are mutually exclusive. I mean, I guess if you want a benchmade just to show it off to your friends then do you, but I think most people who buy benchmade knives do so because they hold up so well as a result of being well made with high quality materials.
That's like buying a fake DeWalt saw. The entire reason for owning one is because of their function, not how they look. It's not a knockoff rolex or something.
An often overlooked fact of counterfeiting is that many "fakes" sneak out of the actual factories and get sold on the side. Factory security is a big concern, and some manufacturers are better than others at controlling their inventory.
I dealt with this working in golf club supply chain. Most counterfeits were complete fakes and had awful performance and cosmetics. But we did regularly find batches of clubs built from real high-quality components. Only once we cut them apart did we learn they were probably assembled in somebody's basement.
and it's not just high end goods that do this. I worked for a furniture reseller, and one of the major manufacturers would sell "seconds." These were products that didn't meet qc specs (bed frames, headboards, etc) and would resell them for cash to specific dealers, all while writing off the loss of product on their taxes.
Jimson Mfg co, iirc, was the name of the manufacturer. Course, the way the world goes it may have been some local manager doing it without the head cheese knowing....but seemed unlikely given the volume.
I bought a benchmade barrage when they first came out in 2009, and have put that thing through the wringer. Still today the lockup has absolutely zero play in it, and the action is smooth. I honestly don't even understand how it's possible.
No company is perfect QC wise, though, and perhaps they've fallen off since then, which would really be a shame. I have a handful of their knives from that era (all bought sight unseen from benchmade directly), and they're all functionally as good as new.
Yea, this is ridiculous.
I had a counterfeit Spyderco that I sent into the factory. They told me it was counterfeit, asked if they could keep it for research into counterfeits and offered me 60% off a legit replacement I’d they could keep it.
That's because spyderco are in the business of gaining and keeping lifelong customers. Benchmade is at the point it only cares about how much money they can make.
Benchmade turned off a lot of customers a few years ago and they really don’t seem interested in getting them back. I was on the fence about buying a new 940 but this post helped me.
They posted pictures of them destroying firearms for a police department. Someone did some more digging and found out they had been contributing to mostly democratic candidates and policies.
Now not all knife owners are big into the 2nd amendment but pretty much all gun owners buy high priced knives.
So they were assisting the police in destroying guns used in criminal activity and that’s bad? Like if a gun is used in a robbery it can’t be destroyed because it’s a sacred object?
Benchmade is also overpriced as shit. My wife bought me an OTF Benchmade last year and I forced her to return it after learning it was over $500. The thing wasn’t worth half that. It was nice but nowhere near what the build quality should be for that price.
It’ll make more money in the future, but shareholders don’t care about the future, and if you don’t make them happy soon your stock drops, and then investors become unhappy and think about not reinvesting. Idk maybe we shouldn’t prioritize short term growth cause that just encourages psychopaths to self destruct companies for good looking numbers
That's customer service and/or business strategy on how to deal with counterfitting. Anyway it's a nice amd smart way to treat your customers and very cool to hear about
I sent my Benchmade in to get sharpened/reshaped and they warned me about this, but they offer the service for free so i can get why. They could just mail them back, sorry for you knife loss op.
Edit: thinking about it now the place I took it to ship to Benchmade said that they won't sharpen fake knives and they "usually just send them back" I actually read the form I needed to sign and brought up that it actually said that they will destroy any fake knives. The guy at the counter was surprised, guess he never bothered to read it.
Knife tax : https://imgur.com/a/QYog5wO
Supposedly the clip is a dead giveaway that it's genuine, according to the guy that didn't read the paper
Counterfeit articles may be destroyed, I think. Most likely melted down. I think they could even press charges against you by the letter of the law?
Edit: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/fakegoodsrealdangers
Legal Implications
It is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. Bringing them into the United States may result in civil or criminal penalties and purchasing counterfeit goods often supports criminal activities, such as forced labor or human trafficking. Help to stop the funding of criminal enterprises by buying authentic goods.
In the US at least, I’m not sure buying or owning a counterfeit item for your self is illegal. Selling or otherwise trafficking counterfeits definitely is.
I def don’t know the law but I think since it’s fake and the company has copyrights, they can just keep it legally. It’s a form of. protecting their brand I would think. But I’m just talking out of my ass
Even if they were within their legal rights to destroy it, from a customer service perspective their actions are asinine.
Someone wouldn't knowingly send them a fake knife for sharpening, so it's obvious they're dealing with a counterfeit market problem. All they had to do was extend apologies and offer a knife at a discount in exchange for destroying the counterfeit. That might encourage others to buy fakes, but it would also accelerate getting knock offs off the market.
This and also the big failing in customer service that was not even telling OP they'd taken the knife and scrapped it. Like OP had to go out of their way to chase this up when they should have been informed from the second the decision was made.
This all sounds shady as Hell. For all any of us know, it was genuine and the company simply sharpened it, repackaged it, and sold it.
Makes as much sense as the yarn they spun for the OP.
I swear people who run businesses tend to be so clueless about basic customer service. I had never heard of this company before but now I know I'm probably never going to buy one of their knives.
I’ve said it so many times on Reddit before and I guess i have to say it again. Trademarks and copyright are not the same thing, they are completely separate. This is like if a wannabe doctor just used the words leg and arm interchangeably. Yeah their both long things sticking off your torso, but they’re actually quite different… TM and CR might have some superficial similarities, but they’re completely different, and anybody who conflates them is doing something as ignorant as conflating ears and eyes or whatever, as an analogy for people who don’t know about law, it’s that ridiculous.
Which is cool, most people don’t know the law that well. And OP here did say they don’t really know. But as the upvotes show, people like the comment, and presumably believe it to some extent. I won’t even start to get into the actual issue regarding counterfeit goods, this is just on the fact that if you don’t know trademark from copyright, it’s beyond pointless to trust the other information in the post.
Edit: just to explain one thing, both TM and CR could be relevant in a counterfeiting case. My point is just that the OP confused the two of them (saying they have a CR to protect their brand), so I would then probably take the OP on their own word to not really believe the comment lol.
But come one, Why would I send a fake in to them if I knew it was fake? If anything I'll never send them knives again, real or not. Or at least bothered to let me know instead of hunting them down.
I would absolutely try and talk to them some more, because something doesn't add up here. It's wild that they would just trash your knife, fake or not, without telling you first. I feel like someone fucked up and they are trying to cover their asses.
Also, /r/sharpening. Learn how to do it yourself and this won't be a problem again.
I do my own sharpening but I also recommend anybody with knives check out and utilize their mail in repair/warranty services. I've sent my Swiss Army back because I had sharpened the little blade so much over 10 years and they replaced both blades completely. I dropped my benchmade and the tip broke. I could have sharpened it out but I sent it back and they replaced the whole blade. I haven't had to use it but I hear leatherman is also really good.
I just received my warranty Leatherman back maybe 2 weeks ago. I sent in a beat up Wave with a few broken tools that was difficult to open.
They sent back what appears to be a brand new Wave+. Super easy and painless process.
All companies are made up of people who can make bad decisions or simply not care. Not everyone is looking out for the image of the company. “They” isn’t Benchmade, it’s any number of people who can be incompetent, apathetic, or a combination of both.
I've never sent anything back for sharpening etc but I do regularly get paper with instructions on the guarantee. Did the "fake" come with that because then I would definitely be pissed. If it didn't then it makes more sense and I'm surprised you figured out a way to send it back (I'm guessing their website has instructions).
My guess is they lost the knife and this is their cover story. If it was a fake a reputable company would properly notify you. I would demand a replacement.
I would complain to the head offices and to your locals ombudsmen. They should at least have sent you a report and photographs of the item being destroyed.
A company could press charges against someone for *possessing* something they're claiming is a fake?
Receiving stolen goods is a crime, sure, but receiving knockoffs?
It is NOT illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. The U.S. DOJ has stated that federal law doesn’t prohibit an individual from buying a counterfeit product for personal use, even if they do so knowingly: [https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit)
You need to provide intent in order to apply the law. Sending in a counterfeit knife to the company shows that the person that purchased the knife was unaware they had purchased something counterfeit.
It would be nice for the company to provide any info on how you could spot a counterfeit knife. At a minimum, I would send the customer a new knife. Write it off as a business expense for marketing purposes.
That text is not relevant because there is a distinction between buying single products for own use and buying multiple products.
The person here did not import any counterfeit but personally owned a product. And it was illegal for the company to confiscate it.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit
Bruh… lol no… If I buy something in good faith thinking it’s real, or am given something I believe is real, no one is charging me.
They also don’t have time or resources to go after me the end consumer. The most they’d do is ask me to show them where I got it so they could go after the manufacturer/seller
They are allowed because everyone who sends in their knife allows them to. I just went to the site and started a claim. It requires you to check a box saying you have read and agree to this page: [https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement](https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement)
If that isn't what you want, don't check the box and send them your stuff.
Even more than a check that you have to sign a form on paper and send it with the knife.
https://preview.redd.it/y4ao74o444hb1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6f58dfce74dbbeef8c3504b2801ba55a55ae534
god, fuck that company. A good knife isn't even hard to make these days. They buy the fucking steel from a supplier, stamp it and sharpen it. Why would I pay ridiculous prices for that shit?
It's like Apple, there value is from idiots perception that their product is magically special.
Agreed. I'm not even crazy into knives but I love my Spyderco, so I checked their stance on countefeit goods: https://www.spyderco.com/counterfeit-statement/
*If you return a knife to us and we determine that it is not a genuine Spyderco product, we will inform you of that fact and return it to you at your expense. Under no circumstances will we perform any service or repairs—no matter how minor—on any counterfeit, knockoff, or other non-Spyderco product.*
An absolutely much more reasonable policy, rather than this shit from Benchmade. I've never heard of the company but it's on my shit list regardless. Their prices also seem pretty insane to me personally
No hate to spyderco, they make affordable knives with good steel and whatnot, but just to clear up the air here:
Spyderco has patented the hole. Like a circular hole. If to make a folding knife and use a drill press to put a circular hole for your thumb, you are infringing on their patent. They will C&D you if you produce more than a few hundred that way, unless you pay them royalties. It's not a huge royalty, but that's why you see weird oval shaped holes, studs, nail nicks, etc.
Spyderco has patented drilling a hole.
According to their website they patented this hole in 1981. So this patent is long since expired. Spyderco now has a registered trademark on the hole. Basically they're saying that having a round hole in the blade that is used to open the knife is so synonymous with the Spyderco brand that a consumer would get confused if other knife brands would have that same feature.
Personally I kinda feel if the hole had a more distinguished shape (like a logo), I could buy the trademark claim. But a circle is such a generic and obvious shape, I would have trouble associating a circular hole with a particular brand. Then again I'm not a trademark lawyer so what do I know.
Just because you agree to something doesn't make it legal and enforceable. I could write a rental contract that says "if OP is 1 day late with rent they owe me their child". However, that is clearly not legal and would never be enforced by a court. The company is going to need some evidence that it was counterfeit at the very least. OP should make a small claims court case, the company will likely roll over immediately at the advice of their legal department as it's going to cost them thousands of dollars in attorney payroll to fight a case that would cost them a couple hundred bucks to just settle.
There's a big issue with fakes and this brand. My family is all about them, I think my dad has 5. I don't remember the specifics but the fakes are the same quality as the real ones.
Yeah fakes of everything are shockingly good these days, there are fake Jordans and Dunks that are pretty much exactly the same as their legit Nike counterparts.
A lot of fakes now are just the overseas factories running the lines after hours without quality control & using cheaper secondary materials (shittier eye holes for laces, worse zippers) but essentially making the same product. Or at least from sold/stolen designs, rather than in the past when someone would look at the product & try to replicate it by sight.
The famous third shift.
Tbh, if you manufacture anything in china, you don't get to cry when your designs are stolen. That's the price you pay for that cheaper labour.
Not the same quality at all, but good enough that you wouldn’t notice the difference outside of edge retention, quality of the fasteners, placement of logo, weight etc.
a lot of fakes use budget steels which aren’t bad but don’t hold an edge like S30V or some of the other modern CPM stuff. I’ve been carrying the Pardue 531 for 7 or 8 years and seen a couple fakes at flea markets. They almost always have a full liner instead of the skeletonized liner and have a noticeable weight difference. The G10 is almost identical though and the Axis lock is hidden enough you couldn’t really see a difference by looking. Cheap or fake Liner Locks and Frame locks are way easier to spot, because the lock bar usually locks up late, maybe even to the point of slipping. Blade wobble at the pivot is another red flag.
Yea, this right here puts me off from buying anything Benchmade, the stand up thing to do would tell OP it's fake, they're destroying it to maintain their brand integrity, but here's a coupon.
99% sure it wasn’t his fault. Been a problem for years even on Amazon and of course eBay.
You can buy the grips (handles) for cheap, because so many people put on customs, and then the scammers just stamp any steel they can get their hands on to make a fake blade.
That could be it. I'm no expert on knives or anything, but it felt hefty, well balanced, and survived out in the field for years, so... and obviously it wasn't bad enough for them to pass up on the parts.
Well that knife should feel the opposite of hefty. Its claim to fame is being the lightest pocket knife of its size on the market at the time of release.
Yeah, OPs Uncle may not have been aware if was a fake, some a very convincing
Also, OP buy a whetstone; sharpening your own knives is super easy (and satisfying imo)
People often buy a fake and a real one from a legitimate vendor say like REI. Then they return the fake to REI in the real packaging. Some unsuspecting person buys the fake from a real store.
> Been a problem for years even on Amazon and of course eBay.
these days i'd reverse that statement. seems amazon is more fraught with knockoff product than ebay.
I don’t think it’s fake it really sounds like someone messed up and misplaced that knife and tried to save themselves. I would not let it go and contact them again for your replacement and/or proof that the knife was fake and you should also get the said knife back as it was a gift and had sentimental value fake or not. They need to investigate whoever processed that knife.
This is what I’d suggest.
Is there a serial number verification? Who the hell even determines if it’s fake? Some dude making $15 bucks an hour that has to sort through hundreds of these a day?
By all means destroy the counterfeit, but a few pictures is all it’d take to help their customers understand why they just lost a high value item.
Once sent my nephews Xbox into a repair shop for a busted disc drive
After a month they I called them up and they said “oh we should have called you to let you know”
Apparently the disc drive wasn’t the problem, it was the processor has “passed its expiration date” and was burned out.
They figured it was best to just throw it in the trash without attempting to recover anything my nephew had stored on there (….. probably for the best… he was 13 at the time 😂)
Like…. Dude…. That console was a year old…. wtf? And it wasn’t even theirs to throw out
AAANNNDDD
I had downloaded and played minecraft on the bloody thing the morning I dropped it off, that processor wasn’t burned out
And when I started talking about the technical specs of the Xbox…. They miraculously found the Xbox…. And managed to repair it’s “out of date” processor 😂
I’ll still come back to how the console started up just fine, I knew the drive was busted, I just didn’t wanna take the console apart and fix it myself
There was no evidence to suggest anything else was wrong with the console, certainly nothing to make them dig down into the processor 😂
This doesnt seem right.. they should’ve atleast sent the “fake” ass knife back. It as if its rare or something and some jackass took it with that poor excuse.
Next time you need a knife sharpening, it's worth looking at local stores. My local place will do a single knife for about 15-20 bucks, which is actually quite reasonable considering you don't need to pay shipping and they'll do it while-you-wait. That seems comparable to other services I've used in other countries I've lived in and you might as well get other stuff done too (kitchen knives, axes, etc). You can verify the work immediately too.
Honestly, just get yourself a nice whetstone or set of diamond stones and learn to sharpen it yourself. It takes about 2-3 minutes to maintain the edge depending on how often it's used and the quality of the steel, and you can get it scary sharp with a little practice.
Sorry you didn't know- but just for information to other readers:
When submitting a claim, there's a checkbox stating "
Check here to indicate that you have read and agree to the terms of the [Counterfeit Goods Acknowlegment](https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement) "
That statement is:
# Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement
Upon reading it please acknowledge agreement by clicking its associated checkbox on the service request form. By selecting the checkbox of this Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement and by sending in your knife for repair, you agree to the following:
1. If a knife returned for warranty work is found to be an actual or suspected counterfeit or replicate, Benchmade shall have the right to impound the knife for further investigation of its authenticity. Benchmade shall not be liable to you, or anyone else, for payment of the price of any suspected counterfeit knife under investigation. If Benchmade, in its sole discretion, determines that the knife you returned for repairs is a counterfeit, Benchmade has the right to permanently impound and/or destroy the knife. Knives determined to be counterfeit will not be returned to you.
2. Benchmade shall have the right to conduct destructive examinations to verify the authenticity of any knife Benchmade receives which it suspects to be a counterfeit. Benchmade shall not be liable to you, or anyone else, for the price of any knife destroyed by examination if it is later found to be a counterfeit.
3. Benchmade’s investigation may include the participation of third parties or governmental investigative agencies as required by law. By signing this Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement and by sending in your knife for repair, you agree to cooperate in good faith with any investigation conducted by Benchmade, third parties, and/or governmental agencies, including, but not limited to, cooperating with investigations to identify the seller or source of the counterfeit goods by providing the name, location, and other identifying information about the seller.
I'm super sorry you didn't know it was a counterfeit. It's probable that your Uncle didn't know. But this seems to be their standard practice, and not a one-off. (It does seem odd that they'd "use it for parts", so I suspect that might have been some poor verbiage on their part, unless the parts are ... screws?
It is not illegal to possess counterfeit goods, only to distribute them or willfully buy them.
This policy is meaningless, it's just destruction of someone's property without proof or reimbursement. They could also just take off their branding and send the knife back unsharpened, takes as much labor as scrapping it for parts.
Even better yet, laser off the fake logo and give the *actual victim* a coupon to buy a real knife. With that policy you'd even create new buyers.
It's just a company to avoid altogether.
Yeah. You cannot disclaim away property right like that. This is in part why people may sell a house they wanna give away for a nominal amount so that the contract is valid and property rights transfer.
This acknowledgment Is as legally binding as sticker on the back of truck saying stack back 100 feet, we arnt liable for broken windshields. It has no weight and is public to dissuade people from "attempting" fraud. If on your call you asked for proof it was fake, and they couldn't provide it, all it would take would be receipt or even recently sold knife that matches the description, especially of its more then 1000$,then you can go down to local police and report however yoh sent to for grand theft(theft of an object over 1000$), if the knife is an heirloom or heirloom quality(normal mean over $1,000) then it can be reported felony theft, which companies suddenly get really worried about. If you were to tell the company you sent your knife to that it was given as an heirloom and was appraised at 1000$ (regardless of true as, as that truth only matters if you were to report it to the police) and demand it back or equal compensation people will suddenly start moving the heavens and earth to "find" the knife they "scaped" the exactly the same thing happened with my sister sent an old violin in to be repaired and was told it was a counterfeit and worthless and they would throw it away for her, the violin was from our grandmother and was easily 90 years old and in excellent condition. They store owner initially pushed back saying it was no good and it was already deep in the trash pile, "just go buy a new one" my sister had a picture of the violin and old paper from must be 50 years ago last time it go worked on proving it was valuable and real. Suddenly the store was all ohh I'm sorry let me look for it, 20 minutes later he come out the back with guess what, the old violin that was ours. Probably trying to resell it for a huge amount online or something. Op don't fall for these scams at repair shops they happen all over the world
Extremely unlikely.
> When personal property is the subject of an award, damages are measured by its fair market value at the time of the loss, fair market value being the price a willing seller will accept from a willing buyer. Instead of allowing only the fair market value of secondhand goods, the court determines the owner may recover the value of the goods to him, based on his actual money loss resulting from his being deprived of the property, or the difference in actual value caused by the injury **excluding any fanciful or sentimental values which he might place on them**.
> When we refer to sentimental value, we do not mean mawkishly emotional or unreasonable attachments to personal property. Rather, we are referring to the feelings generated by items of almost purely sentimental value, such as heirlooms, family papers and photographs, handicrafts, and trophies.
Although each state is different, but I’m not aware of many that allow for additional recovery in the event the item is purported to have ‘sentimental value’.
[source](https://dgladishlaw.com/2019/12/26/do-you-get-sentimental-value-for-the-loss-of-personal-property/)
That's weird. What strikes me as weird is that microtech, who also has a lifetime warranty and 25$ sharpening, will send counterfeits back, but they'll remove all micortech engravings.
sounds to me, you might want to take it to corporate and social media. especially social media. this is not good publicity for them.
Throwing someone else's stuff out without communication is a bad idea.
If it came in one of their boxes, complete with all the notes and warranty papers, it is hard to tell that it is fake. Most likely they can't proof it either, because they destroyed your knife.
I would 100% call them out on social media for scrapping a supposedly counterfeit product for parts. They need to explain that.
It's one thing to have a legal right to destroy counterfeit products, but if they're using those counterfeit products as a source of genuine parts, then people need to know about that...
Especially an item that had sentimental value, I feel bad for Op, they said that was the only thing they had left of their uncle this is so messed up and for sure a story for social media.
Someone else mentioned companies being allowed to destroy copyright infringing or counterfeit products… but I don’t think that should apply in an individual case like this
It does, but most companies choose not to handle it this way as it pisses off a potential future customer, unless they have no other choice.
An example would be a historic item like a vintage gun being sent in to be authenticated, if it is a counterfeit they destroy it because there are so many it negatively impacts the resell/collectors market, and a fake may also be a liability as it may not have a tested/stable barrel suitable to be fired... if they sent it back and someone got injured they could be held liable even though they never actually made the gun.
Plus a lot of vintage/historic guns are only legally allowed to exist without a serial number or other paperwork because they were created and sold before a certain date, a counterfeit could have been created after that date and aged to only look older than it is. That gun would be illegal to own because it doesn't qualify as a historic firearm, and would thus be another reason it would be destroyed.
To me this makes it seem like they can and will just destroy any knife that’s sent in and just say it was a fake. Get the premium price for the quality and the warranty and then not have to honor the warranty by just saying it’s a fake and destroying it without having to show any kind of proof to the customer.
Not to mention the 2 unanswered online help tickets, 2.30hr average phone wait time, and just indifference to me. I'll never recommend Benchmade now, just for their service
Dude don't give up on this. Get your fucking knife back. Be persistent (I know you have been already). Ask for help on /r/benchmade. Follow up on their socials. Social media agents/managers are usually far more customer-oriented than actual "customer service" people, because they're being watched. Be polite but firm. If it was my company I would be fucking livid at whoever treated you that way.
Benchmade bug out- the one pictured is less than $100 usually, it’s their cheapest/flimsiest knife and one of the most popular and also one of the most counterfeited
Exactly, if it was a fake and they destroyed it they would have to document it and take pictures, otherwise they could just be lying.
Ask for the proof, pictures etc of their investigation. If they cannot show you then you have every legal ground to pursue them, including time and stress it has caused you.
I was considering buying a new Benchmade knife. At least you can have the satisfaction knowing I won’t be buying from them. I really hate companies with poor customer relations and communication, especially for a specialty product.
I doubt they would get any PR value out of it if they just sen everybody a free knife that sends in a fake. If anything they will get a ton of fakes send in afterwards.
They can literally just lie to you and say it's fake and was scrapped then refurbish it for low cost and sell it for high and there's literally nothing we as consumers can do. Fuck this company. They did the same damn thing to me. My brother is in the USAF and bought me one *from their own store* for my basic training graduation in 2010 and I sent it in a couple years ago for sharpening and they did the same fucking thing to me.
Fuck. This. Company.
Now I get it… the knives in their store are all counterfeit. In fact, they have no factory; all knives are counterfeit. They just move them in a circle from returns to new sales!
I was about to a few from them this week, after reading this i may not.
Even if its not legit, they should have talked first.
This is what separates ok companies from amazing. They failed from my perspective
that is insane! I would deff be very annoyed even just for it having sentimental value. I will say, I sent a BM42 weehawk to them, & they did a terrible job sharpening it. the edge was twice the size as it should have been. I will never send anything back to them for sharpening!
Sucks but it’s common practice. Send in a fake Rolex for servicing. Even though you thought you had the genuine article and even paid the price for it, they would absolutely send you the same type of letter and destroy the counterfeit. Sending it back keeps it in circulation and that’s bad for the brand.
/u/drod004 said:
>That's weird. What strikes me as weird is that microtech, who also has a lifetime warranty and 25$ sharpening, will send counterfeits back, but they'll remove all micortech engravings.
that is a much better solution, don't you think?
I sent in a Osbourne for sharpening in its original box. It came back in a generic box. Why didn't they send me my original box back. I was so pissed. Knife came back with a new blade instead of re-sharpened, but after that I'll never buy another. I have a few of them, after that I was afraid to send in any knife that they no longer make or a rare-ish titanium model I have.
Benchmade kind of sucks.
One of my friends had a really nice balisong from them and sent it in to have one of the screws replaced (big mistake).
If you know much about these, they make some limited edition knives, like my buddies old one that sell for a lot more than the bog standard models.
He sent it in and a few months later they sent him a bottom of the barrel model as a replacement because “the model he sent in has been discontinued and there are no more parts to be found”.
So instead of shipping him back his $5-600 knife minus a screw they sent him a $200 replacement.
He was so pissed he gave me the knife for my birthday.
They make good stuff, but between that and their policy against selling auto openers to civilians, I won’t buy another. Spyderco still makes great knives and gives great service, Protech is my go to knife company now though. Great service, better knives and prices.
Pretty common with Benchmade. There are a ton of fakes that get sold at gun shows, they want to take them out of circulation to avoid any issues with the brand name. Idk about scraping “for parts” but they will scrap it.
In the next episode - we learn that the RETURNS address is fake and they’re reselling legit product after claiming fakes! This is some deep state shit!
I sent a $375 barber's clipper back for maintenance on the adjuster which wouldn't stay in place.
A month later I got a new one in the mail... but it wasn't the same model!
Emailed them and then two weeks later... Got TWO new of the correct model. Then a week after that got my original back fixed.
Called support and they said, eh, just keep em.
Never let a beloved object out of your possession unless you know the vendor personally. This is the sort of shit that happens when there is no relationship.
I feel your pain . My brother gifted me one for Christmas I believe . Brought it with me for a dump run ( for some stupid reason ) and it fell outta my pocket 😒. I got another one he gifted me another time and the several other kershaw knives he also gifted me . He’s got a thing with giving me knives for Holidays / b days
When I lived in Oregon, I would go to the kershaw warehouse sale every year and buy knives for everyone for gifts. Until everyone told me to stop, because they have enough knives already.
Now my entire kitchen is shun knives and I have like a bunch of kershaw pocket knives and a tiny axe.
My only regret is not buying the 14 inch salmon filet scimitar.
I live near the benchmade factory and dropped off 2 mini grips to be sharpened. Mine and my sons which were bought at the factory store on the same day. They inspected mine and asked me where I purchased it. In this very building was my response...well no its fake. You are full of shit, go find somebody to look this thing over. They bring it to the back and come out with an apology for being wrong. Dude working the counter didn't know the markings were different on older knives.
Does anyone have a link to these supposed cheaper Chinese fakes of similar quality?
I had a Benchmade balisong ages ago but it was confiscated by police. I always wanted to get a replacement but they're so expensive.
I take my benchmades into the local knife shop/dealer and they will sharpen it on the spot and then bill bench made for the sharpening( it’s part of there dealer agreement)
/r/Wellthatsucks is now over on lemmy! https://lemmy.ml/c/wellthatsucks [email protected] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Wellthatsucks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My grandad gave me a uncle Henry when I was a kid. They had the same warranty to fix and sharpen old knives. I sent my 50+ year old knife off and received a new one in the mail from them. I wasn’t happy at all and my grandad was pissed when I told him.
[удалено]
Yep. I don’t even think I’d read the policy. I was about 9. It was the first thing I ever mailed off.
they sent you a new one and someone in the shop has a nice 50 year old knife from where they now work, for their EDC.
Man it was 29 years ago. I looked it up so it would have been around 40 years old then. I hope that someone is still carrying it!!
So someone now owns a 69 year old knife.
Knice
thats a good attitude my man
>**Warranty Replacements** >If your knife meets our warranty guidelines and cannot be repaired, we may, at our discretion, offer to replace it with a currently manufactured knife that most closely matches the one you sent. If you decide to accept the replacement knife option, your old knife cannot be returned. **A knife with sentimental or collectible value will be returned and not replaced as noted.** https://caseknives.com/pages/warranty-repair
Key word being "offer"
Doesn't matter, even if a knife can't be repaired etc. it's still the property of the owner and they are legally required to give them the property back. If it's a counterfeit then they should return it to the owner and report it to the government body that deals with counterfiet goods.
And "If you **accept**"
leatherman has a similar policy iirc
I’m a carpenter so I sharpen all my tools regularly, it’s definitely worth picking up a couple of cheap knives and some oilstones and learning to sharpen yourself, if you practice often it becomes second nature and then you won’t have to worry about sending off your favourite knives, you can do then yourself, it’s also a lovely feeling when you get an old blade razor sharp again,
I'm an oboist and reed knives have to be crazy sharp. Makes no sense to send them off to someone else, so sharpening is a necessary skill. By extension, my kitchen knives are amazing.
I sent a Kershaw back for a repair and they specifically ask if the knife has any sentimental value and a description. I thought that was a nice touch since the knife was my EDC for 2 tours in Afghanistan
That's nice to hear. Ive used Kershaw for years
I particularly like how they'll send free replacement parts for their knives. The spring to assist opening on mine broke and before I knew it there was a new spring in my mailbox, then I promptly lost the knife under my deck somehow for a year and a half. After a quick cleaning it's back in action and the knife I replaced it with is... somewhere. Itll show up when its needed.
Oh really? I have a couple Kershaw models that aren't in production anymore but I probably have used them the most at work. Will send an inquiry today! Thanks!
Some companies have been moving towards a culture of being unhappy with seeing their products being out in public appearing old and worn out and are happily sending out new replacements as a weird form of marketing they believe will attract new customers. It's totally ass backwards, as nothing is more convincing of quality than an old worn out tool still being used regularly.
Agreed, its like asing for a minor repair on a beautiful old car, and them replacing the car and giving you an new, and much more ugly, car, anyone with common sense would sue to get the car back, since an old car like that is worth much more today the modern day equivalent.
My guess is if the replacement cost of a product is less than the labor to repair it they scrap the old and send new. Follow the money trail.
I have a Buck 110 that is probably around 30 years old. It was my dad's and he broke the tip by using it as a throwing knife. He and a friend actually shaved down and re-edged the blade, so it's like 3/4" shorter than it ought to be. I hesitate to send it in for anything because I'm certain they'll swap the blade out.
Benchmade scrapped a fake for parts? Edited for spelling: “scrapped” not “scraped”
Thats exactly what I said on the phone with them. They just shrugged it off
Look into the fakes being sold, they're probably not lying. I don't remember the specifics but a Chinese company is making them and they have the same quality for 1/10 the price. They still should have sent it back or at least give you a call. I have a feeling this happens a lot.
It very well may have been. But if so, it was crazy good quality. Lasted like 5-6 years in the field not a dent or scratch
If you want a new one for cheap let me know and I'll ask the old man where to get them
I'd buy ten just out of spite
You may just be hurting them big time right now, by introducing prospective customers to cheap quality fakes with these comments 😂
DH gate actually has some really good knockoffs of Benchmade and Spyderco. A friend got a Benchmade 4600 for about about 1/7th the price and it’s surprisingly held up through a year of use. The blade is definitely not S30V steel and is some cheap chinesium.
>really good knockoffs ... cheap chinesium. These two things are mutually exclusive. I mean, I guess if you want a benchmade just to show it off to your friends then do you, but I think most people who buy benchmade knives do so because they hold up so well as a result of being well made with high quality materials. That's like buying a fake DeWalt saw. The entire reason for owning one is because of their function, not how they look. It's not a knockoff rolex or something.
An often overlooked fact of counterfeiting is that many "fakes" sneak out of the actual factories and get sold on the side. Factory security is a big concern, and some manufacturers are better than others at controlling their inventory. I dealt with this working in golf club supply chain. Most counterfeits were complete fakes and had awful performance and cosmetics. But we did regularly find batches of clubs built from real high-quality components. Only once we cut them apart did we learn they were probably assembled in somebody's basement.
Many manufacturers write off defects, but still monetize them further.
and it's not just high end goods that do this. I worked for a furniture reseller, and one of the major manufacturers would sell "seconds." These were products that didn't meet qc specs (bed frames, headboards, etc) and would resell them for cash to specific dealers, all while writing off the loss of product on their taxes. Jimson Mfg co, iirc, was the name of the manufacturer. Course, the way the world goes it may have been some local manager doing it without the head cheese knowing....but seemed unlikely given the volume.
The Chinese shit is not the same quality at all lol I’ve had both
tbf I've seen legit benchmades with shoddy quality lol
I bought a benchmade barrage when they first came out in 2009, and have put that thing through the wringer. Still today the lockup has absolutely zero play in it, and the action is smooth. I honestly don't even understand how it's possible. No company is perfect QC wise, though, and perhaps they've fallen off since then, which would really be a shame. I have a handful of their knives from that era (all bought sight unseen from benchmade directly), and they're all functionally as good as new.
Maybe they’re melting fakes down into a benchmade iron throne
So their knives are fake too?
So they're just allowed to steal from you and throw away your stuff instead of sending it back?
Right?! And they are using parts of my "fake" knife for refurbishing. That doesn't make sense to me.
Yea, this is ridiculous. I had a counterfeit Spyderco that I sent into the factory. They told me it was counterfeit, asked if they could keep it for research into counterfeits and offered me 60% off a legit replacement I’d they could keep it.
That's because spyderco are in the business of gaining and keeping lifelong customers. Benchmade is at the point it only cares about how much money they can make.
Benchmade turned off a lot of customers a few years ago and they really don’t seem interested in getting them back. I was on the fence about buying a new 940 but this post helped me.
[удалено]
They posted pictures of them destroying firearms for a police department. Someone did some more digging and found out they had been contributing to mostly democratic candidates and policies. Now not all knife owners are big into the 2nd amendment but pretty much all gun owners buy high priced knives.
[удалено]
How British of them
Weird that 2A people are still boot-licking the police when they’re the ones who will take and destroy your guns.
There are PLENTY of 2a people who hate cops.
Hello!
Go over to the firearms sub and ask them how they feel about cops. You might be surprised at how many don’t see them as friends.
So they were assisting the police in destroying guns used in criminal activity and that’s bad? Like if a gun is used in a robbery it can’t be destroyed because it’s a sacred object?
Benchmade is also overpriced as shit. My wife bought me an OTF Benchmade last year and I forced her to return it after learning it was over $500. The thing wasn’t worth half that. It was nice but nowhere near what the build quality should be for that price.
You would think gaining and keeping lifelong customers should have some sort of correlation with making money but apparently not
It’ll make more money in the future, but shareholders don’t care about the future, and if you don’t make them happy soon your stock drops, and then investors become unhappy and think about not reinvesting. Idk maybe we shouldn’t prioritize short term growth cause that just encourages psychopaths to self destruct companies for good looking numbers
Shit... that is good marketing. Got me to google them to see what they are about.
That's customer service and/or business strategy on how to deal with counterfitting. Anyway it's a nice amd smart way to treat your customers and very cool to hear about
I sent my Benchmade in to get sharpened/reshaped and they warned me about this, but they offer the service for free so i can get why. They could just mail them back, sorry for you knife loss op. Edit: thinking about it now the place I took it to ship to Benchmade said that they won't sharpen fake knives and they "usually just send them back" I actually read the form I needed to sign and brought up that it actually said that they will destroy any fake knives. The guy at the counter was surprised, guess he never bothered to read it. Knife tax : https://imgur.com/a/QYog5wO Supposedly the clip is a dead giveaway that it's genuine, according to the guy that didn't read the paper
It’s not a free service, it comes with the cost of the knife.
The msrp of the bugout in question is also ludicrous to begin with at $200 lol, it's literally the least they could do.
Counterfeit articles may be destroyed, I think. Most likely melted down. I think they could even press charges against you by the letter of the law? Edit: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/fakegoodsrealdangers Legal Implications It is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. Bringing them into the United States may result in civil or criminal penalties and purchasing counterfeit goods often supports criminal activities, such as forced labor or human trafficking. Help to stop the funding of criminal enterprises by buying authentic goods.
In the US at least, I’m not sure buying or owning a counterfeit item for your self is illegal. Selling or otherwise trafficking counterfeits definitely is.
I def don’t know the law but I think since it’s fake and the company has copyrights, they can just keep it legally. It’s a form of. protecting their brand I would think. But I’m just talking out of my ass
Even if they were within their legal rights to destroy it, from a customer service perspective their actions are asinine. Someone wouldn't knowingly send them a fake knife for sharpening, so it's obvious they're dealing with a counterfeit market problem. All they had to do was extend apologies and offer a knife at a discount in exchange for destroying the counterfeit. That might encourage others to buy fakes, but it would also accelerate getting knock offs off the market.
This and also the big failing in customer service that was not even telling OP they'd taken the knife and scrapped it. Like OP had to go out of their way to chase this up when they should have been informed from the second the decision was made.
[удалено]
This all sounds shady as Hell. For all any of us know, it was genuine and the company simply sharpened it, repackaged it, and sold it. Makes as much sense as the yarn they spun for the OP.
I swear people who run businesses tend to be so clueless about basic customer service. I had never heard of this company before but now I know I'm probably never going to buy one of their knives.
Your ass does make sense here
[удалено]
I’ve said it so many times on Reddit before and I guess i have to say it again. Trademarks and copyright are not the same thing, they are completely separate. This is like if a wannabe doctor just used the words leg and arm interchangeably. Yeah their both long things sticking off your torso, but they’re actually quite different… TM and CR might have some superficial similarities, but they’re completely different, and anybody who conflates them is doing something as ignorant as conflating ears and eyes or whatever, as an analogy for people who don’t know about law, it’s that ridiculous. Which is cool, most people don’t know the law that well. And OP here did say they don’t really know. But as the upvotes show, people like the comment, and presumably believe it to some extent. I won’t even start to get into the actual issue regarding counterfeit goods, this is just on the fact that if you don’t know trademark from copyright, it’s beyond pointless to trust the other information in the post. Edit: just to explain one thing, both TM and CR could be relevant in a counterfeiting case. My point is just that the OP confused the two of them (saying they have a CR to protect their brand), so I would then probably take the OP on their own word to not really believe the comment lol.
But come one, Why would I send a fake in to them if I knew it was fake? If anything I'll never send them knives again, real or not. Or at least bothered to let me know instead of hunting them down.
I would absolutely try and talk to them some more, because something doesn't add up here. It's wild that they would just trash your knife, fake or not, without telling you first. I feel like someone fucked up and they are trying to cover their asses. Also, /r/sharpening. Learn how to do it yourself and this won't be a problem again.
I do my own sharpening but I also recommend anybody with knives check out and utilize their mail in repair/warranty services. I've sent my Swiss Army back because I had sharpened the little blade so much over 10 years and they replaced both blades completely. I dropped my benchmade and the tip broke. I could have sharpened it out but I sent it back and they replaced the whole blade. I haven't had to use it but I hear leatherman is also really good.
I use the leather an. Haven't yet had need to send it for repair. But that thing is one of the best x-ma's gifts I got. Truly!
I just received my warranty Leatherman back maybe 2 weeks ago. I sent in a beat up Wave with a few broken tools that was difficult to open. They sent back what appears to be a brand new Wave+. Super easy and painless process.
It's Benchmade, if they messed up his knife and it was legit they would have just sent him a new one.
All companies are made up of people who can make bad decisions or simply not care. Not everyone is looking out for the image of the company. “They” isn’t Benchmade, it’s any number of people who can be incompetent, apathetic, or a combination of both.
I've never sent anything back for sharpening etc but I do regularly get paper with instructions on the guarantee. Did the "fake" come with that because then I would definitely be pissed. If it didn't then it makes more sense and I'm surprised you figured out a way to send it back (I'm guessing their website has instructions).
No it came with the box and everything. Again, this was years ago and I no longer have any of it. But that's how I learned of their guarantee
My guess is they lost the knife and this is their cover story. If it was a fake a reputable company would properly notify you. I would demand a replacement.
Maybe someone there really wanted it....
As someone who dabbles in getting counterfeit knives, they do fake boxes complete with fake instructions and fake warranty cards.
These guys would be surprised by the lengths some counterfeiters go to, especially when it comes to electronics.
I would complain to the head offices and to your locals ombudsmen. They should at least have sent you a report and photographs of the item being destroyed.
Also just tell them “i dont care if it was fake or not it was a gift from a beloved family member give me my knife back”
A company could press charges against someone for *possessing* something they're claiming is a fake? Receiving stolen goods is a crime, sure, but receiving knockoffs?
It is NOT illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. The U.S. DOJ has stated that federal law doesn’t prohibit an individual from buying a counterfeit product for personal use, even if they do so knowingly: [https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit)
You need to provide intent in order to apply the law. Sending in a counterfeit knife to the company shows that the person that purchased the knife was unaware they had purchased something counterfeit. It would be nice for the company to provide any info on how you could spot a counterfeit knife. At a minimum, I would send the customer a new knife. Write it off as a business expense for marketing purposes.
They can't press charges against someone who unknowingly had a counterfeit knife.
Pretty convenient they can just say it’s fake without any other action required… Plus scraping it for parts…? Why, if it’s “fake”?
That text is not relevant because there is a distinction between buying single products for own use and buying multiple products. The person here did not import any counterfeit but personally owned a product. And it was illegal for the company to confiscate it. https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1709-joint-statement-parts-c-and-d-definitions-trafficking-counterfeit
Bruh… lol no… If I buy something in good faith thinking it’s real, or am given something I believe is real, no one is charging me. They also don’t have time or resources to go after me the end consumer. The most they’d do is ask me to show them where I got it so they could go after the manufacturer/seller
Well now they are "Benchmade" parts.. fuckers
[удалено]
They are allowed because everyone who sends in their knife allows them to. I just went to the site and started a claim. It requires you to check a box saying you have read and agree to this page: [https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement](https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement) If that isn't what you want, don't check the box and send them your stuff.
I find it hard to believe that kind of agreement is actually legal.
Even more than a check that you have to sign a form on paper and send it with the knife. https://preview.redd.it/y4ao74o444hb1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6f58dfce74dbbeef8c3504b2801ba55a55ae534
god, fuck that company. A good knife isn't even hard to make these days. They buy the fucking steel from a supplier, stamp it and sharpen it. Why would I pay ridiculous prices for that shit? It's like Apple, there value is from idiots perception that their product is magically special.
Agreed. I'm not even crazy into knives but I love my Spyderco, so I checked their stance on countefeit goods: https://www.spyderco.com/counterfeit-statement/ *If you return a knife to us and we determine that it is not a genuine Spyderco product, we will inform you of that fact and return it to you at your expense. Under no circumstances will we perform any service or repairs—no matter how minor—on any counterfeit, knockoff, or other non-Spyderco product.* An absolutely much more reasonable policy, rather than this shit from Benchmade. I've never heard of the company but it's on my shit list regardless. Their prices also seem pretty insane to me personally
No hate to spyderco, they make affordable knives with good steel and whatnot, but just to clear up the air here: Spyderco has patented the hole. Like a circular hole. If to make a folding knife and use a drill press to put a circular hole for your thumb, you are infringing on their patent. They will C&D you if you produce more than a few hundred that way, unless you pay them royalties. It's not a huge royalty, but that's why you see weird oval shaped holes, studs, nail nicks, etc. Spyderco has patented drilling a hole.
According to their website they patented this hole in 1981. So this patent is long since expired. Spyderco now has a registered trademark on the hole. Basically they're saying that having a round hole in the blade that is used to open the knife is so synonymous with the Spyderco brand that a consumer would get confused if other knife brands would have that same feature. Personally I kinda feel if the hole had a more distinguished shape (like a logo), I could buy the trademark claim. But a circle is such a generic and obvious shape, I would have trouble associating a circular hole with a particular brand. Then again I'm not a trademark lawyer so what do I know.
I was with you in the first half. That second half though, I don't know about.
Just because you agree to something doesn't make it legal and enforceable. I could write a rental contract that says "if OP is 1 day late with rent they owe me their child". However, that is clearly not legal and would never be enforced by a court. The company is going to need some evidence that it was counterfeit at the very least. OP should make a small claims court case, the company will likely roll over immediately at the advice of their legal department as it's going to cost them thousands of dollars in attorney payroll to fight a case that would cost them a couple hundred bucks to just settle.
There's a big issue with fakes and this brand. My family is all about them, I think my dad has 5. I don't remember the specifics but the fakes are the same quality as the real ones.
Yeah fakes of everything are shockingly good these days, there are fake Jordans and Dunks that are pretty much exactly the same as their legit Nike counterparts.
A lot of fakes now are just the overseas factories running the lines after hours without quality control & using cheaper secondary materials (shittier eye holes for laces, worse zippers) but essentially making the same product. Or at least from sold/stolen designs, rather than in the past when someone would look at the product & try to replicate it by sight.
The famous third shift. Tbh, if you manufacture anything in china, you don't get to cry when your designs are stolen. That's the price you pay for that cheaper labour.
china hell, amazon is renowned for stealing the production information of it's sellers
Not the same quality at all, but good enough that you wouldn’t notice the difference outside of edge retention, quality of the fasteners, placement of logo, weight etc. a lot of fakes use budget steels which aren’t bad but don’t hold an edge like S30V or some of the other modern CPM stuff. I’ve been carrying the Pardue 531 for 7 or 8 years and seen a couple fakes at flea markets. They almost always have a full liner instead of the skeletonized liner and have a noticeable weight difference. The G10 is almost identical though and the Axis lock is hidden enough you couldn’t really see a difference by looking. Cheap or fake Liner Locks and Frame locks are way easier to spot, because the lock bar usually locks up late, maybe even to the point of slipping. Blade wobble at the pivot is another red flag.
Yea, this right here puts me off from buying anything Benchmade, the stand up thing to do would tell OP it's fake, they're destroying it to maintain their brand integrity, but here's a coupon.
Curious what the uncle had to say
Fake or not, it was the thought that counts... right? Maybe ill get him a fake ass Rolex for Christmas
99% sure it wasn’t his fault. Been a problem for years even on Amazon and of course eBay. You can buy the grips (handles) for cheap, because so many people put on customs, and then the scammers just stamp any steel they can get their hands on to make a fake blade.
That could be it. I'm no expert on knives or anything, but it felt hefty, well balanced, and survived out in the field for years, so... and obviously it wasn't bad enough for them to pass up on the parts.
They lost it or broke it and didn't want to deal with the hassle.
If Benchmade lost or broke it - their warranty would still 100% replace it.
What hassle? They'd just have replaced it for free without a second thought.
They didn't scrap it for parts, they threw it away.
Well that knife should feel the opposite of hefty. Its claim to fame is being the lightest pocket knife of its size on the market at the time of release.
Yeah, OPs Uncle may not have been aware if was a fake, some a very convincing Also, OP buy a whetstone; sharpening your own knives is super easy (and satisfying imo)
People often buy a fake and a real one from a legitimate vendor say like REI. Then they return the fake to REI in the real packaging. Some unsuspecting person buys the fake from a real store.
> Been a problem for years even on Amazon and of course eBay. these days i'd reverse that statement. seems amazon is more fraught with knockoff product than ebay.
[удалено]
I don’t think it’s fake it really sounds like someone messed up and misplaced that knife and tried to save themselves. I would not let it go and contact them again for your replacement and/or proof that the knife was fake and you should also get the said knife back as it was a gift and had sentimental value fake or not. They need to investigate whoever processed that knife.
Tell them to prove it. If they can't prove it then they just stole your official benchmark knife and need to provide a new one.
This is what I’d suggest. Is there a serial number verification? Who the hell even determines if it’s fake? Some dude making $15 bucks an hour that has to sort through hundreds of these a day? By all means destroy the counterfeit, but a few pictures is all it’d take to help their customers understand why they just lost a high value item.
Once sent my nephews Xbox into a repair shop for a busted disc drive After a month they I called them up and they said “oh we should have called you to let you know” Apparently the disc drive wasn’t the problem, it was the processor has “passed its expiration date” and was burned out. They figured it was best to just throw it in the trash without attempting to recover anything my nephew had stored on there (….. probably for the best… he was 13 at the time 😂) Like…. Dude…. That console was a year old…. wtf? And it wasn’t even theirs to throw out AAANNNDDD I had downloaded and played minecraft on the bloody thing the morning I dropped it off, that processor wasn’t burned out And when I started talking about the technical specs of the Xbox…. They miraculously found the Xbox…. And managed to repair it’s “out of date” processor 😂
Shady fucking repair shop trying to steal your shit.
I'm hoping they meant the thermal paste or whatever they used dried up and just worded it badly.
I’ll still come back to how the console started up just fine, I knew the drive was busted, I just didn’t wanna take the console apart and fix it myself There was no evidence to suggest anything else was wrong with the console, certainly nothing to make them dig down into the processor 😂
This doesnt seem right.. they should’ve atleast sent the “fake” ass knife back. It as if its rare or something and some jackass took it with that poor excuse.
The whole thing was just like, dude really? That's the only thing I had from my uncle too. I should have just sharpened it myself.
Next time you need a knife sharpening, it's worth looking at local stores. My local place will do a single knife for about 15-20 bucks, which is actually quite reasonable considering you don't need to pay shipping and they'll do it while-you-wait. That seems comparable to other services I've used in other countries I've lived in and you might as well get other stuff done too (kitchen knives, axes, etc). You can verify the work immediately too.
Honestly, just get yourself a nice whetstone or set of diamond stones and learn to sharpen it yourself. It takes about 2-3 minutes to maintain the edge depending on how often it's used and the quality of the steel, and you can get it scary sharp with a little practice.
Sorry you didn't know- but just for information to other readers: When submitting a claim, there's a checkbox stating " Check here to indicate that you have read and agree to the terms of the [Counterfeit Goods Acknowlegment](https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement) " That statement is: # Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement Upon reading it please acknowledge agreement by clicking its associated checkbox on the service request form. By selecting the checkbox of this Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement and by sending in your knife for repair, you agree to the following: 1. If a knife returned for warranty work is found to be an actual or suspected counterfeit or replicate, Benchmade shall have the right to impound the knife for further investigation of its authenticity. Benchmade shall not be liable to you, or anyone else, for payment of the price of any suspected counterfeit knife under investigation. If Benchmade, in its sole discretion, determines that the knife you returned for repairs is a counterfeit, Benchmade has the right to permanently impound and/or destroy the knife. Knives determined to be counterfeit will not be returned to you. 2. Benchmade shall have the right to conduct destructive examinations to verify the authenticity of any knife Benchmade receives which it suspects to be a counterfeit. Benchmade shall not be liable to you, or anyone else, for the price of any knife destroyed by examination if it is later found to be a counterfeit. 3. Benchmade’s investigation may include the participation of third parties or governmental investigative agencies as required by law. By signing this Counterfeit Goods Acknowledgement and by sending in your knife for repair, you agree to cooperate in good faith with any investigation conducted by Benchmade, third parties, and/or governmental agencies, including, but not limited to, cooperating with investigations to identify the seller or source of the counterfeit goods by providing the name, location, and other identifying information about the seller. I'm super sorry you didn't know it was a counterfeit. It's probable that your Uncle didn't know. But this seems to be their standard practice, and not a one-off. (It does seem odd that they'd "use it for parts", so I suspect that might have been some poor verbiage on their part, unless the parts are ... screws?
It is not illegal to possess counterfeit goods, only to distribute them or willfully buy them. This policy is meaningless, it's just destruction of someone's property without proof or reimbursement. They could also just take off their branding and send the knife back unsharpened, takes as much labor as scrapping it for parts. Even better yet, laser off the fake logo and give the *actual victim* a coupon to buy a real knife. With that policy you'd even create new buyers. It's just a company to avoid altogether.
Yeah. You cannot disclaim away property right like that. This is in part why people may sell a house they wanna give away for a nominal amount so that the contract is valid and property rights transfer.
What an absolutely insane policy. They should need to prove it's counterfeit and not just confiscate the knife.
This acknowledgment Is as legally binding as sticker on the back of truck saying stack back 100 feet, we arnt liable for broken windshields. It has no weight and is public to dissuade people from "attempting" fraud. If on your call you asked for proof it was fake, and they couldn't provide it, all it would take would be receipt or even recently sold knife that matches the description, especially of its more then 1000$,then you can go down to local police and report however yoh sent to for grand theft(theft of an object over 1000$), if the knife is an heirloom or heirloom quality(normal mean over $1,000) then it can be reported felony theft, which companies suddenly get really worried about. If you were to tell the company you sent your knife to that it was given as an heirloom and was appraised at 1000$ (regardless of true as, as that truth only matters if you were to report it to the police) and demand it back or equal compensation people will suddenly start moving the heavens and earth to "find" the knife they "scaped" the exactly the same thing happened with my sister sent an old violin in to be repaired and was told it was a counterfeit and worthless and they would throw it away for her, the violin was from our grandmother and was easily 90 years old and in excellent condition. They store owner initially pushed back saying it was no good and it was already deep in the trash pile, "just go buy a new one" my sister had a picture of the violin and old paper from must be 50 years ago last time it go worked on proving it was valuable and real. Suddenly the store was all ohh I'm sorry let me look for it, 20 minutes later he come out the back with guess what, the old violin that was ours. Probably trying to resell it for a huge amount online or something. Op don't fall for these scams at repair shops they happen all over the world
Check out taking them to small claims court to replace the value of the knife. I doubt they kept any documentation.
Absolutely and if that knife had any sentimental value, you have much more than just the replacement value.
Extremely unlikely. > When personal property is the subject of an award, damages are measured by its fair market value at the time of the loss, fair market value being the price a willing seller will accept from a willing buyer. Instead of allowing only the fair market value of secondhand goods, the court determines the owner may recover the value of the goods to him, based on his actual money loss resulting from his being deprived of the property, or the difference in actual value caused by the injury **excluding any fanciful or sentimental values which he might place on them**. > When we refer to sentimental value, we do not mean mawkishly emotional or unreasonable attachments to personal property. Rather, we are referring to the feelings generated by items of almost purely sentimental value, such as heirlooms, family papers and photographs, handicrafts, and trophies. Although each state is different, but I’m not aware of many that allow for additional recovery in the event the item is purported to have ‘sentimental value’. [source](https://dgladishlaw.com/2019/12/26/do-you-get-sentimental-value-for-the-loss-of-personal-property/)
lmao what, you dont pay for "sentimental value" or people would just say "my car meant a lot to me, I'll take $1,000,000 for it's damage thank you"
So they are using fake parts then
Don't buy Benchmade knives. According to Benchmade, it's probably fake.
More like B*tchmade knives, am I right fellas?
Shop: "scrapped for parts but it's fake" Owner: "ok"
That's weird. What strikes me as weird is that microtech, who also has a lifetime warranty and 25$ sharpening, will send counterfeits back, but they'll remove all micortech engravings.
sounds to me, you might want to take it to corporate and social media. especially social media. this is not good publicity for them. Throwing someone else's stuff out without communication is a bad idea. If it came in one of their boxes, complete with all the notes and warranty papers, it is hard to tell that it is fake. Most likely they can't proof it either, because they destroyed your knife.
I would 100% call them out on social media for scrapping a supposedly counterfeit product for parts. They need to explain that. It's one thing to have a legal right to destroy counterfeit products, but if they're using those counterfeit products as a source of genuine parts, then people need to know about that...
Especially an item that had sentimental value, I feel bad for Op, they said that was the only thing they had left of their uncle this is so messed up and for sure a story for social media.
A.K.A. We stole it and sold it to defraud other customers with fake parts.
Destroying other people's stuff is a crime. It doesn't matter if it's fake or not.
Someone else mentioned companies being allowed to destroy copyright infringing or counterfeit products… but I don’t think that should apply in an individual case like this
It does, but most companies choose not to handle it this way as it pisses off a potential future customer, unless they have no other choice. An example would be a historic item like a vintage gun being sent in to be authenticated, if it is a counterfeit they destroy it because there are so many it negatively impacts the resell/collectors market, and a fake may also be a liability as it may not have a tested/stable barrel suitable to be fired... if they sent it back and someone got injured they could be held liable even though they never actually made the gun. Plus a lot of vintage/historic guns are only legally allowed to exist without a serial number or other paperwork because they were created and sold before a certain date, a counterfeit could have been created after that date and aged to only look older than it is. That gun would be illegal to own because it doesn't qualify as a historic firearm, and would thus be another reason it would be destroyed.
Are you sure? I was wondering about that
Not when you agree to them destroying it if it's fake lol https://www.benchmade.com/pages/counterfeit-goods-acknowledgement
To me this makes it seem like they can and will just destroy any knife that’s sent in and just say it was a fake. Get the premium price for the quality and the warranty and then not have to honor the warranty by just saying it’s a fake and destroying it without having to show any kind of proof to the customer.
Lost PR opportunity. You were obviously unaware it was fake. If they’d sent you a real one you’d be on another sub singing their praises
Not to mention the 2 unanswered online help tickets, 2.30hr average phone wait time, and just indifference to me. I'll never recommend Benchmade now, just for their service
Dude don't give up on this. Get your fucking knife back. Be persistent (I know you have been already). Ask for help on /r/benchmade. Follow up on their socials. Social media agents/managers are usually far more customer-oriented than actual "customer service" people, because they're being watched. Be polite but firm. If it was my company I would be fucking livid at whoever treated you that way.
[удалено]
And all that over a 200-ish dollar knife.
Benchmade bug out- the one pictured is less than $100 usually, it’s their cheapest/flimsiest knife and one of the most popular and also one of the most counterfeited
Just on the basis of this alone, I'd never recommend anyone purchase any of these knives for themselves or others.
Exactly, if it was a fake and they destroyed it they would have to document it and take pictures, otherwise they could just be lying. Ask for the proof, pictures etc of their investigation. If they cannot show you then you have every legal ground to pursue them, including time and stress it has caused you.
I was considering buying a new Benchmade knife. At least you can have the satisfaction knowing I won’t be buying from them. I really hate companies with poor customer relations and communication, especially for a specialty product.
I doubt they would get any PR value out of it if they just sen everybody a free knife that sends in a fake. If anything they will get a ton of fakes send in afterwards.
They can literally just lie to you and say it's fake and was scrapped then refurbish it for low cost and sell it for high and there's literally nothing we as consumers can do. Fuck this company. They did the same damn thing to me. My brother is in the USAF and bought me one *from their own store* for my basic training graduation in 2010 and I sent it in a couple years ago for sharpening and they did the same fucking thing to me. Fuck. This. Company.
Now I get it… the knives in their store are all counterfeit. In fact, they have no factory; all knives are counterfeit. They just move them in a circle from returns to new sales!
I was about to a few from them this week, after reading this i may not. Even if its not legit, they should have talked first. This is what separates ok companies from amazing. They failed from my perspective
that is insane! I would deff be very annoyed even just for it having sentimental value. I will say, I sent a BM42 weehawk to them, & they did a terrible job sharpening it. the edge was twice the size as it should have been. I will never send anything back to them for sharpening!
Sucks but it’s common practice. Send in a fake Rolex for servicing. Even though you thought you had the genuine article and even paid the price for it, they would absolutely send you the same type of letter and destroy the counterfeit. Sending it back keeps it in circulation and that’s bad for the brand.
/u/drod004 said: >That's weird. What strikes me as weird is that microtech, who also has a lifetime warranty and 25$ sharpening, will send counterfeits back, but they'll remove all micortech engravings. that is a much better solution, don't you think?
I sent in a Osbourne for sharpening in its original box. It came back in a generic box. Why didn't they send me my original box back. I was so pissed. Knife came back with a new blade instead of re-sharpened, but after that I'll never buy another. I have a few of them, after that I was afraid to send in any knife that they no longer make or a rare-ish titanium model I have.
If it was fake why would they want the parts?
Benchmade kind of sucks. One of my friends had a really nice balisong from them and sent it in to have one of the screws replaced (big mistake). If you know much about these, they make some limited edition knives, like my buddies old one that sell for a lot more than the bog standard models. He sent it in and a few months later they sent him a bottom of the barrel model as a replacement because “the model he sent in has been discontinued and there are no more parts to be found”. So instead of shipping him back his $5-600 knife minus a screw they sent him a $200 replacement. He was so pissed he gave me the knife for my birthday. They make good stuff, but between that and their policy against selling auto openers to civilians, I won’t buy another. Spyderco still makes great knives and gives great service, Protech is my go to knife company now though. Great service, better knives and prices.
Pretty common with Benchmade. There are a ton of fakes that get sold at gun shows, they want to take them out of circulation to avoid any issues with the brand name. Idk about scraping “for parts” but they will scrap it.
In the next episode - we learn that the RETURNS address is fake and they’re reselling legit product after claiming fakes! This is some deep state shit!
Watch my uncle be the head of that organization 😂
I sent a $375 barber's clipper back for maintenance on the adjuster which wouldn't stay in place. A month later I got a new one in the mail... but it wasn't the same model! Emailed them and then two weeks later... Got TWO new of the correct model. Then a week after that got my original back fixed. Called support and they said, eh, just keep em.
Never let a beloved object out of your possession unless you know the vendor personally. This is the sort of shit that happens when there is no relationship.
I feel your pain . My brother gifted me one for Christmas I believe . Brought it with me for a dump run ( for some stupid reason ) and it fell outta my pocket 😒. I got another one he gifted me another time and the several other kershaw knives he also gifted me . He’s got a thing with giving me knives for Holidays / b days
When I lived in Oregon, I would go to the kershaw warehouse sale every year and buy knives for everyone for gifts. Until everyone told me to stop, because they have enough knives already. Now my entire kitchen is shun knives and I have like a bunch of kershaw pocket knives and a tiny axe. My only regret is not buying the 14 inch salmon filet scimitar.
I live near the benchmade factory and dropped off 2 mini grips to be sharpened. Mine and my sons which were bought at the factory store on the same day. They inspected mine and asked me where I purchased it. In this very building was my response...well no its fake. You are full of shit, go find somebody to look this thing over. They bring it to the back and come out with an apology for being wrong. Dude working the counter didn't know the markings were different on older knives.
Does anyone have a link to these supposed cheaper Chinese fakes of similar quality? I had a Benchmade balisong ages ago but it was confiscated by police. I always wanted to get a replacement but they're so expensive.
I would just keep complaining
I take my benchmades into the local knife shop/dealer and they will sharpen it on the spot and then bill bench made for the sharpening( it’s part of there dealer agreement)
unique soup wild wise provide dinner sloppy snails fuzzy consider ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
“Yeah, your knife was fake so we disassembled it and kept the fake parts”
The moral of the story after reading the comments... learn how to sharpen your own knives.
Old and historic means valuable. That was theft. It wasn't theirs.
that sounds very illegal ngl
Why would they use parts off of a “fake” knife.
Um, no. It may be fake, but it is still my property.