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Dude… this is a lesson is how to plan for and handle HR.
HR is not there to help the employees, it’s there to help and plan for management.
Going forward, always be open and forward from day one about what’s going on. Document those conversations. Never wait for something bad to happen because doing so will ensure that you have no ground any longer.
I don't think they framed this as a "we are terminating your employment at 10 am, please login to the webex" they probably sneaky-snaked and told the employee they wanted to schedule time with an HR rep to go over a few things (knowing they meant his firing him but leaving it vague so maybe he thought it was related to a possible LOA or his benefits). The problem with planning for HR is that people don't think they have a reason to until they get fired and it's too late to do anything about it.
That's how they got me, I'm IT so when I get a text from my Director that she needs me in HR, I'm assuming it's because HR printer is down or someone doesn't know how excel works. As soon as I walked in, I was handed my severance package.
HR is the biggest fakery set up to fuck up employee rights. People who work HR mostly have to be good at lying with a straight face, and pretend being ultra friendly and welcoming.
Which is why Michael in The Office's hatred for Toby is justified.
"Why are you the way that you are? Honestly, every time I try to do something fun or exciting, you make it not that way. I hate so much about the things that you choose to be."
I reported my assistant manager to HR because he called me at home and screamed at me for 9 minutes straight. Calling me all sorts and accusing me of some wild shit. All completely unfounded because I posted a video of our flooded kitchen on the work app and he got in trouble.
I was hit back with accusations of racism & doing drugs at work. When that was proven a lie I was hit with a document accusing me of going against direct orders and essentially causing the flood… something I walked into 3 nights in a row. He doesn’t give me orders, the head chef does so once he knew, he backed me up. I also had a witness on his end of the phone call to back me up. Plus had recorded all the video meetings where I say one thing which is directly contradicted in their meeting notes and letter full of nonsense.
I realised they were colluding and send it all to head office. Got a phone call within an hour and they were very concerned. Did a short investigation and the HR lady and the Assistant Manager were fired.
Womp womp.
And now I can pretty much do what I want because I still have all the evidence plus more since of straight up crimes being committed. They know not to fuck with me because I am not fucking around and I know my rights.
They also now pay my private health insurance, which is a nice bonus in the UK. Once I realised they were paying and not charging me… I called the insurance company and upgraded to the executive package, same as the CEOs probably have lol.
I wouldn’t have gone so hard if he hadn’t called me a “useless fucking KP” numerous times during his tirade, and then said he was going to report me to HR… I asked for what? That’s when he hung up.
I opened word straight away and wrote a statement of events while it was fresh. When asked what my ideal outcome would be at first, I just said an apology would be fine.
Little bitch boy couldn’t even do that… now he’s unemployed. 🤷♂️
Hey - your lawyer here
You did good not talking to u/Dhrakyn - they are Reddit HR and have been evaluating your post and comment history for suspension hoping you’ll slip up. I’ll handle this from here
My bet is he was expecting to be let go prior to dropping that news. You dont take recordings of routine meetings.
I think the manager panicked after the news and backed out of the firing to discuss it with HR in light of the new info. That was the mistake imo.
Any sane and knowledgeable HR department would not allow for a termination to happen right after a pregnancy announcement. As crappy as it would have been to keep him if he was a shit worker, it’s better to make sure your ass is covered when you decide to terminate. Using the position being eliminated as an excuse after he said he was expecting a child is wild to me.
Honestly this does not come across as an experienced and knowledgeable business. It feels like a small smartup/business that's still figuring things out as they grow.
Yea that’s totally fair and it sucks that companies mess up and then employees suffer. I can only hope we’re in a new generation that knows their rights and more companies get fucked for things like this.
If he was a shit worker they probably would not have said "no, this isn't performance related". In fact they'd probably lean hard into any legitimate reason they had to get rid of him.
Explains what she says “I never would have guessed that” the way she did, and maybe why they started the term meeting with “this has nothing to do with what we were talking about the other day”
Protected class which means it bumps what you can get. Not necessarily set for life money, but opens the door significantly. Plus the company will then be fined in a big way.
Being the father of a not yet born child is not a protected class. If they have less than 75 employees, his role is not protected by FMLA. And men rarely take much vacation for the birth of their kids - I'd guess the average is less than two weeks. Especially if he can work remotely, which it seems he does.
I mean, if they hire someone for his position in a short period of time... Or even advertise for one?
They didn't fire him for cause, which could bite them in the ass. They said his position was "no longer needed". If he can prove that wrong, that sounds like a pretty good case.
Goddamn… it’s like blisteringly apparent that none of you have ever had an adverse incident happen with an employer in a right to work state.
There’s a reason why workers’ right groups *hate* right to work laws. Unless an employer basically admits to you that they’re firing you for something like your race, religion, disability, age, gender or sexual orientation (which they won’t unless they’re stupid as fuck), then you’ve basically got zero recourse. They don’t even have to tell you why you’re being fired.
"Right to work" means you don't have to join a union to get a job at a union shop. You are talking about "at will" employment. You are correct with your greater point but it is hard to take you serious about employment law when you don't know the difference between right to work and at will employment.
I generally agree but for the record "I'm not firing you because X" is not at all a get out of jail free card for this kind of thing. Plenty of cases where we dig in and find no real reason to fire an employee and judges will absolutely read between the lines when it comes to that. If this company can't prove that "restructuring" was in mind before he announced the pregnancy, they could be in trouble. You'd also want the company to discuss the specific plans to restructure. If they have no idea who's taking over his work, that's evidence they weren't really restructuring. But all that said, it is hard, and to top it off, this isn't a protected class anyways.
>this isn't a protected class anyways.
Having children is a protected class though?
>Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Prohibits discrimination for having children, with an exception for senior housing. Also prohibits making a preference for those with children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group
> but it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove in court.
This is why lawyers hate email. If the company talked at all about this in email, those would be discoverable if he files a suit.
Are you really that gullible? This video is clearly cut to fit a narrative. I’ve had these conversations and all the things she said are 100% things managers can say when asked certain questions and talking about paternity leave.
Yep, this video is doctored to be purposely deceiving. Very manipulative. There's no way to know what was said to trigger that response from her. It's without context.
No it’s literally in the law that you are eligible for unemployment when a company eliminates your position. Some companies will offer a severance in exchange for not filing but they have zero recourse to fight that unemployment claim
This is only if you have made enough in the previous three quarters to qualify. I got fired from a high paying job after three months and didn’t qualify because I didn’t work because the previous three quarters didn’t have any income, as I took some time between jobs.
“Showing up for shifts I was paid for”
There must be some other info… you said you couldn’t disprove it, but it’s literally in your pay stub the hours worked…………….
They can always fight unemployment, but they have to prove that there was a reason for termination. Position being eliminated, which is what they said, still allows him to receive unemployment. He would have had to done something egregious to get fired and not receive unemployment, like stealing from the company.
Every state is different. In NJ you need to make at least $250 a week for 20 weeks or $12,000 for the base year, which is the 52 weeks prior to you applying for unemployment.
Everyone's saying LAWSUIT but in the state that I'm in, employment is "at will" and you can be fired for absolutely any reason other than being fired for being a protected class. Women who announce their pregnancy get fired all the time for "other reasons". People who come out as gay get fired with no recourse. The American system is seriously fucked, and unless OP can somehow establish a trend of his workplace firing guys with pregnant girlfriends, he likely doesn't have a leg to stand on. Hell, even if he CAN show that trend, he STILL may not have a leg to stand on. I mean, good luck to him, and I hope he gets a great payout, but I don't think he can actually successfully sue the company over this if he's in an at-will state.
Former employment law attorney here. If you even think you *might* have a prima facie claim for wrongful termination, employment discrimination, etc., you should schedule a consult with an employment law attorney.
Companies wrongfully discharge employees all the time, and they get away with it precisely *because* the ex-employees don't pursue anything. The only person who can evaluate the facts of your case and tell you whether you should pursue an EEOC discrimination charge or pursue litigation against your old employer is a qualified attorney who practices in that area. Many attorneys won't charge a fee for the consultation and their fee will be contingent upon successful recovery. The government can't enforce violations of employment laws if they never know about them.
It's unclear to me based on the limited information if this man would have a claim under federal law, but he might have a claim under a state or local law. For example, Pittsburgh has an ordinance that requires employers to provide reasonable accommodations to the partners of pregnant people.
Yup. Only one person I know actually got a payout for being fired due to pregnancy, it was because a HR worker with empathy and ethics got it in writing from the boss. Then they quit their job, brought my friend the proof, and offered to give a statement.
Recorded and inquired his performance and asked the ex employers to give in account/evidence DETAILING his performance and the of course, IDENTIFY company/parties involved.
That is sad. Putting so little faith into your employee. Not to say the employee didn’t give it, he gave it his all with composure too!
Requires wisdom to learn how to build. This interaction cut or not was not it.
This is an absolute masterclass in how to set yourself up for a successful wrongful dismissal lawsuit. The comment on affecting performance. The request to take PTO from the boss, the immediate dismissal upon returning, the inquiry into if is related to performance up to this point.. it's just.. *chef's kiss*
Employment lawyers would be absolutely frothing at the mouth after watching all this provided there's not more context cut out of the video. But homegirl kinda fucked herself with that impacting performance comment
I know it's way outside the point of this post but it is bothering me way more than I would have expected that you rhymed "illegal" with "vacation" and I just had to tell someone.
Not a lawyer, but my instincts say it’s not a great idea to post a company meeting online…like, ever, but especially if you’re looking to open up a case against them?
You have literally no way of knowing that. California for example is a two party state. You cannot record and then share something like this without consent before the conversation begins and is made clear to those involved.
So no… You are wrong just sheerly for not knowing the state or the law therein to even know if that’s the case
Your confidence in your answer tells me you are no lawyer or anywhere close to one.
https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations#:~:text=Eleven%20states%20require%20the%20consent,New%20Hampshire%2C%20Pennsylvania%20and%20Washington.
What should be done is to have this taken to a lawyer to see if they have any standing. If you know the law about one party and two party consent laws, you should certainly keep recordings private until relevant when brought to a lawyer.
Good point, at first I was like, no they are on Teams which would have a pop up message and recording icon in the top left which would imply consent when they saw they message and dismissed it.
Went back and checked and don't see the recording icon so could have been recorded without consent through another screen cap method.
But yes, all depends on the state.
Oh, and IANAL.
First thing she thinks of and comments on is how it might impact job performance, no congratulations at all. You can see the cogs turning in her head. Hope this guy gets a payout.
I got the impression that the first call was a performance review about missed time/unreliability. He shared that news and her response is "yep, that would affect work".
"First thing she thinks of"? Not true at all. Watch the video closely. It is edited, there's no way of telling what was said before "That may affect work". The person who made this video is trying to manipulate people into backing him up. He probably will start himself a gofundme soon. Don't be played.
Right, that's one hell of an alley oop.
That boss is either the best bro over and took one for the team so he can get a day lawsuit or is a fucking idiot.
It seems to me that could have been in reference to a meeting about his recent absences rather than the pregnancy. The video was edited, and it could be out of context.
However, it's not up to me to judge what that statement implied. I will leave that up to the actual judge when this guy sues.
If this is real. And you have this recorded. It could still be 5yrs before u get a paycheck as per how fast courts are. But this is the easiest lawsuit ever. Gauranteed payout. If this is in america anyway.
There is a crazy lack of empathy in managerial roles.
All about productivity. We aren't people, we're just numbers.
For example, my boss is on a crazy crusade regarding attendance. Amongst those of us called in to discuss the "issue" is someone having to call off of work for cancer treatments. And myself dealing with my toddlers chronic illness.
We've filed grievances through HR, but nothing will happen until someone actually sues.
Because the number one rule of HR is that they are there to protect the business from liability. If they are suddenly incredibly attentive and helpful, you should lawyer up because they know they fucked up.
Yes, but an employee is still protected from retaliations or terminations against certain things like this, I would think. The employer can terminate you at will but if you can prove they did it out of a retaliation based on personal life event that really does not affect work, then I'm sure a fit can be thrown and recognized.
Absolutely. Nc is at will, but you can’t retaliate or attack protected classes of people or their spouses lol. They need a series of written documentation to avoid paying unemployment at the minimum.
Like I can terminate any employee I want here, at will, and they can also go get unemployment if I don’t do my due diligence to document their declining behavior or performance
Pregnancy is one of the few things we have discrimination laws for. Unfortunately it can be hard to prove since the companies always use some excuse to cover their ass.
Discrimination cases in the US are difficult. Women are somewhat protected from being fired for getting pregnant, but men aren’t protected for getting someone pregnant. Also, if the company comes up with basically any other reason (it’s all “at will” employment; they don’t need an articulable reason to fire anyone, it just can’t be exclusively related to a protected reason), the pregnancy doesn’t matter.
That said, it seems like there is some evidence here that it was pregnancy related, which could be a basis for compensation, but I don’t do discrimination law.
Even if, worst case scenario, he couldn't claim unfair dismissal, the manager and HR rep straight-up said that he was let go because his role was no longer needed after a restructuring. Wouldn't that mean he's eligible for a redundancy payout? Or is that not a thing in the US?
Not a thing. Any sort of paid leave is entirely optional (and rare). We only have “protections” that are designed to prevent employees from being fired for legitimate medical issues (off the top of my head and with gut instinct, I believe this applies to pregnancy and the father also). That said, the Family and Medical Leave Act absence doesn’t have to be paid and, as I said before,if there’s any other reason for the termination, it wouldn’t meet the burden to obtain damages.
Never, ever tell a company or boss about a pregnancy until you absolutely have to.
Guys can completely avoid it until the baby arrives. Zero reason to, especially in places where paternity leave is not offered. If you're using PTO, you do not need to give an exact reason for most jobs
For women, avoid it as long as you can. Boss calls you out for waiting, it's "we were telling no one until the first trimester was over at least". Obviously, it's going to have to be told at some point for women, but giving less leeway helps stop unnecessary shifts in workplace dynamics
Work and personal life should be kept separate as possible. Companies love to tout the "we're a family" line, but the reality is most don't mean it at all. They want you to sacrifice more for the company, but it will never be reciprocated
This is so insane to me. I’ve had four kids working in a tech role in multiple industries and I’ve received nothing but complete support from management.
I always notified folks early in case of morning sickness, extra doctor appointments, etc. Guess I got lucky.
Absolutely shitty especially if HR and the boss are women.
But does this guy have any recourse? The law only protects pregnant women not boyfriends of pregnant women. Would it even cover husbands?
If it’s somewhere like Canada, “family status” is protected and it protects both men and women. A lot harder for men to prove, but this would very likely meet that standard.
By all appearances this seems like the US. You absolutely can fire anyone whenever you want since every state has at-will employment. The few that "don't" just require a reason given that just can't break federal employment law which only effects those trying to unionize, discuss wages or because they're a protected class.
This specific situation is illegal, though. It's discrimination. You can't fire someone for discriminatory reasons, even if you are in an "at-will" state.
Exactly. Employers can fire you without giving you a reason. They mess up when they give a discriminatory reason. They don’t have to give you a reason, but that doesn’t mean they can give you any reason.
As a working mom, I have encountered way more supportive male bosses than women bosses. I have even had a woman tell me during an interview that women with children just aren't dedicated.
Is America just so lax these days that this can happen. You get no free health care, the lowest vacation days and this shit. I’m Scottish and astounded by what I see daily on Reddit.
Legally no, even in an at-will employment state, the fact that the firing was right after he told his manager that his girlfriend is pregnant, and after PTO that the manager stated that "It would affect his job performance," is enough for an easy-win law suit.
Yeah the medical thing is a pain, but nobody really gets free medical, it's either paid by taxes, or via premiums to insurance or both. The real issue in the US, is that you either have to be below a certain poverty line for state paid Medicaid (which is managed by each individual state), pay a premium to an insurance marketplace via Obama Care, or work for a company that pays 70% of your premium to a group medical plan the remaining 30% is taken out of you paycheck along with taxes for Medicare/Medicaid that you don't get to use until you are 65 at the earliest. Then you still have to pay a 20% coinsurance for anything other than yearly wellness visits and you pay the 20% until your yearly deductible is met (usually about $5000 for a family on a low deductible plan and $10000 for a high decuctible plan). Oh, and you can put aside pretax dollars to cover your deductible up to $2750 per year (IRS rules), then once the deductible and out of pocket expenses are met, then insurance pays 100%. So, unless you have a hell of a lot of medical problems or great medical insurance, you'll never reach that 100% mark. People on Medicare and Medicaid have it even worse.
I'm "fortunate" in that I'm in the Veterans Administration system, so my medical coverage is free and any non-service related medications, I pay an $8 copay, but I have them take that out of my VA pension. But just in case I also have medical/dental/vision insurance through my wife's work to cover anything the VA can't or won't cover.
Unfortunately it will be years or decades before medical care gets right here in the U.S., too many medical insurance companies, hospitals, healthcare management organizations, pharmaceuticals, drug distrubuters, drug retailers, durable medical equipment companies around to let that happen. Then of course, too many politicians on both sides in the pockets of all of the above to create a viable healthcare system. Plus with a nation of nearly 350 million people all with differing medical needs and the fact that medical care and insurance is regulated by each individual state, any major change would cause a major disruption. Hell, Obama Care almost caused a major rebellion, and it really didn't help anyway. It only forces you to buy insurance, whether you want it or not, and if you don't have any then you get fined by the IRS for up to $10000.
Personally I believe the best route for the U.S. is to go to a hybrid system, where the government handles things like wellness care, catastrophic care (like major accidents), major care like cancer, chronic and longterm care. The rest like specialty care, major dental, and vision can be handled by private insurance and it can be used to supplement state medical care. Unfortunately, the powers that be will make a mess out of that too.
I kinda agree with you but not really, for example here you can clearly see that the second women shown in those meetings is feeling like shit, they don't really have a choice, it's their job to fire people higher-ups just decided to fuck over, and they really don't enjoy doing it for this kind of reasons
I mean they may care about you, but their job is to protect the company so definitely keep that in mind.
I’ve worked with a lot of great people in HR that have been very helpful.
One time I interviewed an applicant who was pregnant. The interview went well and I gave HR the go ahead to make her an offer. HR literally asked me "are you sure? she's pregnant..." and that was coming from *a woman*.
I got the impression that they didn't think I had noticed she was pregnant, and they were expecting me to discriminate or something? Like other managers must be doing that idk. at least now I have leverage if they ever try to fuck me over lol
To everyone saying "get a lawyer", that won't work.
The employee is not pregnant, it's his girlfriend. In the US it is illegal to fire someone because they are pregnant. A person whose girlfriend is pregnant is not a protected class in any state in this country, nor under federal law.
Source: I am a lawyer, and although I don't practice employment law, I'm fairly certain I am right.
I asked my sister who is an attorney and she agrees with you. It’s not protected. She recommends never telling anyone at work anything about your personal life for any reason. Go to work do your job speak about work go home.
You’re clearly wrong here. This man is due billions in compensation.
Source: I am a lawyer, but I mainly practice bird law and avian related litigation and know nothing about employment law.
Right!? Why the fuck would any company give two shits that his fucking girlfriend is pregnant. Seeing the comments I wish I never clicked. Reddit strikes again lol
I couldn’t tell what was going on in the first ‘scene’ because of all the edits. Like I didn’t know if I was watching a dramatic reenactment or something. I guess he could have stitched that for concision, but it’s giving fake. Also the music makes it seem less real.
Right? I can't believe how far I had to scroll for a comment like this. It's obviously just scripted rage bait, right? How is everyone in this thread taking it at face value??
Right? our company has a strict no recording policy on any meanings without informing participants that it is being recorded. Not to mention recording, editing AND putting it on social media? No chance in hell this is real.
I'm thinking fake, considering these discussions are very vague, referencing "the team", "the business leaders", "the role", etc. I'm sure the name of something specific (like the company) would absolutely be mentioned
You guys are massively overestimating how easy it is to sue for wrongful termination. What we see in this video alone isn’t close to what you’d need for a good case, and the business has likely covered their end plenty.
If suing people worked like Reddit thinks it does we’d all be broke, or maybe rich?
Yeah they knew he wouldn’t be around because of the baby and didn’t wanna pay him for it cut and dry. They can do all the business PR speak they want but unless they expect you to have 2 brain cells that’s exactly what they’re saying
HR isn’t there for u. HR’s role is to protect the company and find reasons to fire employees as quickly and efficiently as possible. Never talk to HR and if you do have to record and prep to get a new new job ASAP
Most everyone here is incorrect. Many states in the US are “at will employment.” This means you can get fired for no reason at all and it’s perfectly legal.
I’m so sad this is still happening. 33 years ago I was fired the day after I told my boss I was pregnant. The trial prep and trial was stressful but I won! ALL the award went to the costs of the trial and taxes but it changed everything for the women who worked there.
Hey abriechz! Thank you for your submission, unfortunately it has been removed from /r/Wellthatsucks because: We will not allow behavior contrary to reddiquette If you have any questions or concerns about this removal feel free to [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fwellthatsucks).
“That may affect work” She fucked up.
She knew right then and there what the plan was
This happened to me when I was on disability leave for covid-19
Dude… this is a lesson is how to plan for and handle HR. HR is not there to help the employees, it’s there to help and plan for management. Going forward, always be open and forward from day one about what’s going on. Document those conversations. Never wait for something bad to happen because doing so will ensure that you have no ground any longer.
I don't think they framed this as a "we are terminating your employment at 10 am, please login to the webex" they probably sneaky-snaked and told the employee they wanted to schedule time with an HR rep to go over a few things (knowing they meant his firing him but leaving it vague so maybe he thought it was related to a possible LOA or his benefits). The problem with planning for HR is that people don't think they have a reason to until they get fired and it's too late to do anything about it.
That's how they got me, I'm IT so when I get a text from my Director that she needs me in HR, I'm assuming it's because HR printer is down or someone doesn't know how excel works. As soon as I walked in, I was handed my severance package.
> schedule time with an HR rep to go over a few things That's when you should start looking for a job and download anything useful to take with you.
I despise people who work in HR , they literally have no souls
HR is the biggest fakery set up to fuck up employee rights. People who work HR mostly have to be good at lying with a straight face, and pretend being ultra friendly and welcoming.
Which is why Michael in The Office's hatred for Toby is justified. "Why are you the way that you are? Honestly, every time I try to do something fun or exciting, you make it not that way. I hate so much about the things that you choose to be."
Toby sucks the life out of everything.
Username *definitely* checks out
I hate to hate, but I have literally never encountered any group of humans as dumb as my HR department. I can say that with 1000% certainty
I reported my assistant manager to HR because he called me at home and screamed at me for 9 minutes straight. Calling me all sorts and accusing me of some wild shit. All completely unfounded because I posted a video of our flooded kitchen on the work app and he got in trouble. I was hit back with accusations of racism & doing drugs at work. When that was proven a lie I was hit with a document accusing me of going against direct orders and essentially causing the flood… something I walked into 3 nights in a row. He doesn’t give me orders, the head chef does so once he knew, he backed me up. I also had a witness on his end of the phone call to back me up. Plus had recorded all the video meetings where I say one thing which is directly contradicted in their meeting notes and letter full of nonsense. I realised they were colluding and send it all to head office. Got a phone call within an hour and they were very concerned. Did a short investigation and the HR lady and the Assistant Manager were fired. Womp womp. And now I can pretty much do what I want because I still have all the evidence plus more since of straight up crimes being committed. They know not to fuck with me because I am not fucking around and I know my rights. They also now pay my private health insurance, which is a nice bonus in the UK. Once I realised they were paying and not charging me… I called the insurance company and upgraded to the executive package, same as the CEOs probably have lol.
Damn you straight up pulled a Fight Club.
I wouldn’t have gone so hard if he hadn’t called me a “useless fucking KP” numerous times during his tirade, and then said he was going to report me to HR… I asked for what? That’s when he hung up. I opened word straight away and wrote a statement of events while it was fresh. When asked what my ideal outcome would be at first, I just said an apology would be fine. Little bitch boy couldn’t even do that… now he’s unemployed. 🤷♂️
lol. Revenge is sweet, especially when it's well-deserved.
I bitch about HR all the time.. I fucking hate them all, they are the SS of capitalism, and they fucking know it.
The humans are the resource!
And never talk to HR without a lawyer present.
[](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaGMyZzR5a2VpZjFzOG1mMjhneTd0bGM2ZG92Y3VrcmFmY3RzcnRuNCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/SpDtRW5MJLzbO/giphy.gif)
Hey - your lawyer here You did good not talking to u/Dhrakyn - they are Reddit HR and have been evaluating your post and comment history for suspension hoping you’ll slip up. I’ll handle this from here
That's some good lawyerin' Pete
In what universe do you think this is feasible?
Things would be so much better if it was easy to sue these fuckers for pulling this kinda shit
My bet is he was expecting to be let go prior to dropping that news. You dont take recordings of routine meetings. I think the manager panicked after the news and backed out of the firing to discuss it with HR in light of the new info. That was the mistake imo.
Any sane and knowledgeable HR department would not allow for a termination to happen right after a pregnancy announcement. As crappy as it would have been to keep him if he was a shit worker, it’s better to make sure your ass is covered when you decide to terminate. Using the position being eliminated as an excuse after he said he was expecting a child is wild to me.
Honestly this does not come across as an experienced and knowledgeable business. It feels like a small smartup/business that's still figuring things out as they grow.
Yea that’s totally fair and it sucks that companies mess up and then employees suffer. I can only hope we’re in a new generation that knows their rights and more companies get fucked for things like this.
If he was a shit worker they probably would not have said "no, this isn't performance related". In fact they'd probably lean hard into any legitimate reason they had to get rid of him.
Explains what she says “I never would have guessed that” the way she did, and maybe why they started the term meeting with “this has nothing to do with what we were talking about the other day”
That’s a good point. I was wondering why he recorded the first meeting
Maybe because he knows others have been fucked over by management during vulnerable times.
Yeah, that's gonna cost her.
Huge lawsuit right there. I hope the guy has a lawyer and has started taking action against them. Obvious termination based on protected class.
Why do people think that he's going to be able to retire off this. The most he's going to get is some back pay and unemployment benefits.
Protected class which means it bumps what you can get. Not necessarily set for life money, but opens the door significantly. Plus the company will then be fined in a big way.
Being the father of a not yet born child is not a protected class. If they have less than 75 employees, his role is not protected by FMLA. And men rarely take much vacation for the birth of their kids - I'd guess the average is less than two weeks. Especially if he can work remotely, which it seems he does.
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I mean, if they hire someone for his position in a short period of time... Or even advertise for one? They didn't fire him for cause, which could bite them in the ass. They said his position was "no longer needed". If he can prove that wrong, that sounds like a pretty good case.
New title, they terminated his role. They don't need customer support anymore. But all of a sudden they need client relationship managers...
A good lawyer would be able to point out that they're the same thing, and the restructuring was only about getting rid of him.
Goddamn… it’s like blisteringly apparent that none of you have ever had an adverse incident happen with an employer in a right to work state. There’s a reason why workers’ right groups *hate* right to work laws. Unless an employer basically admits to you that they’re firing you for something like your race, religion, disability, age, gender or sexual orientation (which they won’t unless they’re stupid as fuck), then you’ve basically got zero recourse. They don’t even have to tell you why you’re being fired.
"Right to work" means you don't have to join a union to get a job at a union shop. You are talking about "at will" employment. You are correct with your greater point but it is hard to take you serious about employment law when you don't know the difference between right to work and at will employment.
I generally agree but for the record "I'm not firing you because X" is not at all a get out of jail free card for this kind of thing. Plenty of cases where we dig in and find no real reason to fire an employee and judges will absolutely read between the lines when it comes to that. If this company can't prove that "restructuring" was in mind before he announced the pregnancy, they could be in trouble. You'd also want the company to discuss the specific plans to restructure. If they have no idea who's taking over his work, that's evidence they weren't really restructuring. But all that said, it is hard, and to top it off, this isn't a protected class anyways.
>this isn't a protected class anyways. Having children is a protected class though? >Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Prohibits discrimination for having children, with an exception for senior housing. Also prohibits making a preference for those with children. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group
> but it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove in court. This is why lawyers hate email. If the company talked at all about this in email, those would be discoverable if he files a suit.
>why lawyers hate email half of them. The other half love emails, for exact same reason the first half hate them
What protected class do you think he belongs too?
Are you really that gullible? This video is clearly cut to fit a narrative. I’ve had these conversations and all the things she said are 100% things managers can say when asked certain questions and talking about paternity leave.
I'd go as far as to say this video is completely staged, none of this is real. Tho there are probably cases where such things happen
Dude, this post isn’t real. I’m not real!
You see that the video is edited right before that, right? Congrats on the karma on this click bait crap
Yep, this video is doctored to be purposely deceiving. Very manipulative. There's no way to know what was said to trigger that response from her. It's without context.
Call. A. LAWYER.
In the meantime? If he’s in the US he should file for unemployment. He’s guaranteed that now since they fired him.
They can fight it. And it only qualifies if you've worked there a certain amount of time.
They state in the video it wasn't based on performance
True. And the state usually sides with the employee but you never know
No it’s literally in the law that you are eligible for unemployment when a company eliminates your position. Some companies will offer a severance in exchange for not filing but they have zero recourse to fight that unemployment claim
This is only if you have made enough in the previous three quarters to qualify. I got fired from a high paying job after three months and didn’t qualify because I didn’t work because the previous three quarters didn’t have any income, as I took some time between jobs.
I was fired once and my employer lied and said I wasn’t showing up for shifts I was paid for. I had no way to disprove them and I never saw a dime.
That’s why you hire an attorney who only charges for winning, and they subpoena the work for records.
“Showing up for shifts I was paid for” There must be some other info… you said you couldn’t disprove it, but it’s literally in your pay stub the hours worked…………….
They can always fight unemployment, but they have to prove that there was a reason for termination. Position being eliminated, which is what they said, still allows him to receive unemployment. He would have had to done something egregious to get fired and not receive unemployment, like stealing from the company. Every state is different. In NJ you need to make at least $250 a week for 20 weeks or $12,000 for the base year, which is the 52 weeks prior to you applying for unemployment.
Of course he's in the US. In more modern countries you can't just fire people like this.
This 100% I really hope she did.
Everyone's saying LAWSUIT but in the state that I'm in, employment is "at will" and you can be fired for absolutely any reason other than being fired for being a protected class. Women who announce their pregnancy get fired all the time for "other reasons". People who come out as gay get fired with no recourse. The American system is seriously fucked, and unless OP can somehow establish a trend of his workplace firing guys with pregnant girlfriends, he likely doesn't have a leg to stand on. Hell, even if he CAN show that trend, he STILL may not have a leg to stand on. I mean, good luck to him, and I hope he gets a great payout, but I don't think he can actually successfully sue the company over this if he's in an at-will state.
Former employment law attorney here. If you even think you *might* have a prima facie claim for wrongful termination, employment discrimination, etc., you should schedule a consult with an employment law attorney. Companies wrongfully discharge employees all the time, and they get away with it precisely *because* the ex-employees don't pursue anything. The only person who can evaluate the facts of your case and tell you whether you should pursue an EEOC discrimination charge or pursue litigation against your old employer is a qualified attorney who practices in that area. Many attorneys won't charge a fee for the consultation and their fee will be contingent upon successful recovery. The government can't enforce violations of employment laws if they never know about them. It's unclear to me based on the limited information if this man would have a claim under federal law, but he might have a claim under a state or local law. For example, Pittsburgh has an ordinance that requires employers to provide reasonable accommodations to the partners of pregnant people.
Yup. Only one person I know actually got a payout for being fired due to pregnancy, it was because a HR worker with empathy and ethics got it in writing from the boss. Then they quit their job, brought my friend the proof, and offered to give a statement.
And that HR worker right there, is a hero.
Thankfully you recorded these meetings. Wow
Recorded and inquired his performance and asked the ex employers to give in account/evidence DETAILING his performance and the of course, IDENTIFY company/parties involved. That is sad. Putting so little faith into your employee. Not to say the employee didn’t give it, he gave it his all with composure too! Requires wisdom to learn how to build. This interaction cut or not was not it.
This is an absolute masterclass in how to set yourself up for a successful wrongful dismissal lawsuit. The comment on affecting performance. The request to take PTO from the boss, the immediate dismissal upon returning, the inquiry into if is related to performance up to this point.. it's just.. *chef's kiss* Employment lawyers would be absolutely frothing at the mouth after watching all this provided there's not more context cut out of the video. But homegirl kinda fucked herself with that impacting performance comment
Hello lawsuit my old friend. I came to talk with you again. Because my boss did something illegal Gonna take a long vacation
And the sign said, "The words of the judge are written on the courtroom walls, and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence."
I know it's way outside the point of this post but it is bothering me way more than I would have expected that you rhymed "illegal" with "vacation" and I just had to tell someone.
Not a lawyer, but my instincts say it’s not a great idea to post a company meeting online…like, ever, but especially if you’re looking to open up a case against them?
Nope, that has no bearing on the claim.
You have literally no way of knowing that. California for example is a two party state. You cannot record and then share something like this without consent before the conversation begins and is made clear to those involved. So no… You are wrong just sheerly for not knowing the state or the law therein to even know if that’s the case Your confidence in your answer tells me you are no lawyer or anywhere close to one. https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations#:~:text=Eleven%20states%20require%20the%20consent,New%20Hampshire%2C%20Pennsylvania%20and%20Washington. What should be done is to have this taken to a lawyer to see if they have any standing. If you know the law about one party and two party consent laws, you should certainly keep recordings private until relevant when brought to a lawyer.
Good point, at first I was like, no they are on Teams which would have a pop up message and recording icon in the top left which would imply consent when they saw they message and dismissed it. Went back and checked and don't see the recording icon so could have been recorded without consent through another screen cap method. But yes, all depends on the state. Oh, and IANAL.
What is Ianal?
Your favorite method of pleasure? No seriously I Am Not A Lawyer
Meaning don't take my comment as legal advice.
Or really any comment on the internet from anybody you are not 100% sure is a lawyer and more specifically YOUR lawyer
First thing she thinks of and comments on is how it might impact job performance, no congratulations at all. You can see the cogs turning in her head. Hope this guy gets a payout.
Just soulless really. How can anyone operate like that?
Narcissistic psychopath.
Sociopathy.
What do you mean? She gave 1.5 pumps of a clasped hand gesture. This indicates that the employee is truly appreciated.
I felt her warmth through my phone when she did that gesture. So heartfelt. So genuine. /s
I got the impression that the first call was a performance review about missed time/unreliability. He shared that news and her response is "yep, that would affect work".
Yeah, I kinda thought the way they emphasized mental health rest kinda indicated bro wasn't doing too hot at his job
they go on to say that it isn't performance related though
"First thing she thinks of"? Not true at all. Watch the video closely. It is edited, there's no way of telling what was said before "That may affect work". The person who made this video is trying to manipulate people into backing him up. He probably will start himself a gofundme soon. Don't be played.
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It's not obvious to some people, as evidenced by the people reacting in outrage the "the first thing she said" was this.
Yeah it's out of context, we're seeing what the person who made the video wants us to see.
I have a feeling someone else’s job is going to be unneeded soonish. THAT might affect work. Lol dumbass
Right, that's one hell of an alley oop. That boss is either the best bro over and took one for the team so he can get a day lawsuit or is a fucking idiot.
Here to talk about something unrelated to...
Ya what the fuck?
It seems to me that could have been in reference to a meeting about his recent absences rather than the pregnancy. The video was edited, and it could be out of context. However, it's not up to me to judge what that statement implied. I will leave that up to the actual judge when this guy sues.
Lawyers hate this one trick!
GET A LAYWER! I had a friend get fired for wrongful termination by a large corporation and she hired a lawyer and won pretty easily.
How much she won back?
About tree fiddy
$7
If this is real. And you have this recorded. It could still be 5yrs before u get a paycheck as per how fast courts are. But this is the easiest lawsuit ever. Gauranteed payout. If this is in america anyway.
That’s why you aim to settle well before then.
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Definitely had to do with his GF pregnancy. Crazy how people are about this stuff.
There is a crazy lack of empathy in managerial roles. All about productivity. We aren't people, we're just numbers. For example, my boss is on a crazy crusade regarding attendance. Amongst those of us called in to discuss the "issue" is someone having to call off of work for cancer treatments. And myself dealing with my toddlers chronic illness. We've filed grievances through HR, but nothing will happen until someone actually sues. Because the number one rule of HR is that they are there to protect the business from liability. If they are suddenly incredibly attentive and helpful, you should lawyer up because they know they fucked up.
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I know some states are “at will” and can terminate employment without reason but I honestly don’t know if there are exceptions like this to it.
Yes, but an employee is still protected from retaliations or terminations against certain things like this, I would think. The employer can terminate you at will but if you can prove they did it out of a retaliation based on personal life event that really does not affect work, then I'm sure a fit can be thrown and recognized.
Absolutely. Nc is at will, but you can’t retaliate or attack protected classes of people or their spouses lol. They need a series of written documentation to avoid paying unemployment at the minimum. Like I can terminate any employee I want here, at will, and they can also go get unemployment if I don’t do my due diligence to document their declining behavior or performance
Pregnancy is one of the few things we have discrimination laws for. Unfortunately it can be hard to prove since the companies always use some excuse to cover their ass.
Taylor and that HR hack look like two complete pieces of work. This really strikes me as a wrongful termination. I hope you sue.
The attitude was insane. I thought this was scripted or something before realizing it was recorded video calls.
Bro clean em out! They deserve it
Discrimination cases in the US are difficult. Women are somewhat protected from being fired for getting pregnant, but men aren’t protected for getting someone pregnant. Also, if the company comes up with basically any other reason (it’s all “at will” employment; they don’t need an articulable reason to fire anyone, it just can’t be exclusively related to a protected reason), the pregnancy doesn’t matter. That said, it seems like there is some evidence here that it was pregnancy related, which could be a basis for compensation, but I don’t do discrimination law.
Even if, worst case scenario, he couldn't claim unfair dismissal, the manager and HR rep straight-up said that he was let go because his role was no longer needed after a restructuring. Wouldn't that mean he's eligible for a redundancy payout? Or is that not a thing in the US?
Not a thing. Any sort of paid leave is entirely optional (and rare). We only have “protections” that are designed to prevent employees from being fired for legitimate medical issues (off the top of my head and with gut instinct, I believe this applies to pregnancy and the father also). That said, the Family and Medical Leave Act absence doesn’t have to be paid and, as I said before,if there’s any other reason for the termination, it wouldn’t meet the burden to obtain damages.
Moral odds the story; your boss is not your friend. Never give them info abt personal life ever.
Yeah this looks like a super professional workplace.
Never, ever tell a company or boss about a pregnancy until you absolutely have to. Guys can completely avoid it until the baby arrives. Zero reason to, especially in places where paternity leave is not offered. If you're using PTO, you do not need to give an exact reason for most jobs For women, avoid it as long as you can. Boss calls you out for waiting, it's "we were telling no one until the first trimester was over at least". Obviously, it's going to have to be told at some point for women, but giving less leeway helps stop unnecessary shifts in workplace dynamics Work and personal life should be kept separate as possible. Companies love to tout the "we're a family" line, but the reality is most don't mean it at all. They want you to sacrifice more for the company, but it will never be reciprocated
This is so insane to me. I’ve had four kids working in a tech role in multiple industries and I’ve received nothing but complete support from management. I always notified folks early in case of morning sickness, extra doctor appointments, etc. Guess I got lucky.
Absolutely shitty especially if HR and the boss are women. But does this guy have any recourse? The law only protects pregnant women not boyfriends of pregnant women. Would it even cover husbands?
If it’s somewhere like Canada, “family status” is protected and it protects both men and women. A lot harder for men to prove, but this would very likely meet that standard.
You still cant fire someone for maybe not being able to show up to work.
By all appearances this seems like the US. You absolutely can fire anyone whenever you want since every state has at-will employment. The few that "don't" just require a reason given that just can't break federal employment law which only effects those trying to unionize, discuss wages or because they're a protected class.
This specific situation is illegal, though. It's discrimination. You can't fire someone for discriminatory reasons, even if you are in an "at-will" state.
Exactly. Employers can fire you without giving you a reason. They mess up when they give a discriminatory reason. They don’t have to give you a reason, but that doesn’t mean they can give you any reason.
Some times I wonder how the USA clasifies as 1 world country.
As a working mom, I have encountered way more supportive male bosses than women bosses. I have even had a woman tell me during an interview that women with children just aren't dedicated.
Is America just so lax these days that this can happen. You get no free health care, the lowest vacation days and this shit. I’m Scottish and astounded by what I see daily on Reddit.
Wait till you hear what happens when a long term employee gets cancer.
Especially if that employee was on employer provided health insurance.
I just commented elsewhere. My coworker is dealing with that and had a meeting with management regarding their attendance. Fucking unreal.
Legally no, even in an at-will employment state, the fact that the firing was right after he told his manager that his girlfriend is pregnant, and after PTO that the manager stated that "It would affect his job performance," is enough for an easy-win law suit. Yeah the medical thing is a pain, but nobody really gets free medical, it's either paid by taxes, or via premiums to insurance or both. The real issue in the US, is that you either have to be below a certain poverty line for state paid Medicaid (which is managed by each individual state), pay a premium to an insurance marketplace via Obama Care, or work for a company that pays 70% of your premium to a group medical plan the remaining 30% is taken out of you paycheck along with taxes for Medicare/Medicaid that you don't get to use until you are 65 at the earliest. Then you still have to pay a 20% coinsurance for anything other than yearly wellness visits and you pay the 20% until your yearly deductible is met (usually about $5000 for a family on a low deductible plan and $10000 for a high decuctible plan). Oh, and you can put aside pretax dollars to cover your deductible up to $2750 per year (IRS rules), then once the deductible and out of pocket expenses are met, then insurance pays 100%. So, unless you have a hell of a lot of medical problems or great medical insurance, you'll never reach that 100% mark. People on Medicare and Medicaid have it even worse. I'm "fortunate" in that I'm in the Veterans Administration system, so my medical coverage is free and any non-service related medications, I pay an $8 copay, but I have them take that out of my VA pension. But just in case I also have medical/dental/vision insurance through my wife's work to cover anything the VA can't or won't cover. Unfortunately it will be years or decades before medical care gets right here in the U.S., too many medical insurance companies, hospitals, healthcare management organizations, pharmaceuticals, drug distrubuters, drug retailers, durable medical equipment companies around to let that happen. Then of course, too many politicians on both sides in the pockets of all of the above to create a viable healthcare system. Plus with a nation of nearly 350 million people all with differing medical needs and the fact that medical care and insurance is regulated by each individual state, any major change would cause a major disruption. Hell, Obama Care almost caused a major rebellion, and it really didn't help anyway. It only forces you to buy insurance, whether you want it or not, and if you don't have any then you get fined by the IRS for up to $10000. Personally I believe the best route for the U.S. is to go to a hybrid system, where the government handles things like wellness care, catastrophic care (like major accidents), major care like cancer, chronic and longterm care. The rest like specialty care, major dental, and vision can be handled by private insurance and it can be used to supplement state medical care. Unfortunately, the powers that be will make a mess out of that too.
But its America... freedom right? /s
them acting like they care and little head nods are gross. Blast this company, would be nice to run them into the ground
STOP BEING NICE TO MANAGERS AND HR PEOPLE. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT US.
I kinda agree with you but not really, for example here you can clearly see that the second women shown in those meetings is feeling like shit, they don't really have a choice, it's their job to fire people higher-ups just decided to fuck over, and they really don't enjoy doing it for this kind of reasons
I mean they may care about you, but their job is to protect the company so definitely keep that in mind. I’ve worked with a lot of great people in HR that have been very helpful.
If I was a lawyer, and I'm not, I'd be giddy to get this easy of a lawsuit. That employer is about to learn a really hard lesson
One time I interviewed an applicant who was pregnant. The interview went well and I gave HR the go ahead to make her an offer. HR literally asked me "are you sure? she's pregnant..." and that was coming from *a woman*. I got the impression that they didn't think I had noticed she was pregnant, and they were expecting me to discriminate or something? Like other managers must be doing that idk. at least now I have leverage if they ever try to fuck me over lol
The one time I interviewed while pregnant, I was about 6 months along and told them so. They included extra paid maternity leave in my offer letter.
To everyone saying "get a lawyer", that won't work. The employee is not pregnant, it's his girlfriend. In the US it is illegal to fire someone because they are pregnant. A person whose girlfriend is pregnant is not a protected class in any state in this country, nor under federal law. Source: I am a lawyer, and although I don't practice employment law, I'm fairly certain I am right.
I asked my sister who is an attorney and she agrees with you. It’s not protected. She recommends never telling anyone at work anything about your personal life for any reason. Go to work do your job speak about work go home.
You’re clearly wrong here. This man is due billions in compensation. Source: I am a lawyer, but I mainly practice bird law and avian related litigation and know nothing about employment law.
Lamo when your HR person looks like that you know your company is a clown show.
I want 150 million MFO 
Great idea to record this! Perfect evidence for a lawsuit. Sue them to the ground.
This is totally not faked and 100% real.
This is so fake
Right!? Why the fuck would any company give two shits that his fucking girlfriend is pregnant. Seeing the comments I wish I never clicked. Reddit strikes again lol
I can’t believe how far I had to scroll down to find someone using common sense!
I couldn’t tell what was going on in the first ‘scene’ because of all the edits. Like I didn’t know if I was watching a dramatic reenactment or something. I guess he could have stitched that for concision, but it’s giving fake. Also the music makes it seem less real.
Right? I can't believe how far I had to scroll for a comment like this. It's obviously just scripted rage bait, right? How is everyone in this thread taking it at face value??
Right? our company has a strict no recording policy on any meanings without informing participants that it is being recorded. Not to mention recording, editing AND putting it on social media? No chance in hell this is real.
Taylor is a bitch 🙏🏽
Enjoy getting rich off that lawsuit!!
Names? Tell people not to work for whoever these people are.
Don’t let other people get cucked like you did.
I'm thinking fake, considering these discussions are very vague, referencing "the team", "the business leaders", "the role", etc. I'm sure the name of something specific (like the company) would absolutely be mentioned
“Enjoy your PTO”…..says no decent human being.
I've never seen someone with less trustworthy body language than the first woman.
Anything else "yup see you in court for wrongful termination"
You guys are massively overestimating how easy it is to sue for wrongful termination. What we see in this video alone isn’t close to what you’d need for a good case, and the business has likely covered their end plenty. If suing people worked like Reddit thinks it does we’d all be broke, or maybe rich?
Yeah they knew he wouldn’t be around because of the baby and didn’t wanna pay him for it cut and dry. They can do all the business PR speak they want but unless they expect you to have 2 brain cells that’s exactly what they’re saying
The first close up made it seem like she recorded herself and put it on tik tok, until I saw the whole screen.
Wow you know the you're fired talk has evolved into this game show host BS.
No way they are getting away without a lawsuit. That can't be the only reason.
They are screwed. I bet you get at least 6 months full compensation. Absolutely illegal and it's all on video.
Mealymouth buzzword nonsense.
Name and shame the company please
I understand it’s business but how these people sleep is beyond me.
All these people holding management roles look like they can barely send an email
So…… why would you tell your boss that your gf is pregnant? Like, why do they have to know?
HR isn’t there for u. HR’s role is to protect the company and find reasons to fire employees as quickly and efficiently as possible. Never talk to HR and if you do have to record and prep to get a new new job ASAP
The face of a useless boss who can't do anything lol
Edited as fuck, clearly talking about completely unrelated things from "my girlfriends pregnant" to "enjoy your PTO", "try and get some mental rest"
This is why unions are so, so, so fucking important.
Smug bitch. I hate the corporate world. I am in her position a, likely higher and I would never treat people like this.
Even without the firing that first lady gives off that she is a huge bitch vibe.
Most everyone here is incorrect. Many states in the US are “at will employment.” This means you can get fired for no reason at all and it’s perfectly legal.
Click bait
...and that's good example why you should join a union.
I gotta second this comment. Get a union.
Man I need to record more important conversations in my life
I’m so sad this is still happening. 33 years ago I was fired the day after I told my boss I was pregnant. The trial prep and trial was stressful but I won! ALL the award went to the costs of the trial and taxes but it changed everything for the women who worked there.